Hey guys,
After getting alot of criticism for flying the La-7, I decided to become a virtual test pilot and put several airframes to the crucible. You can find this new article in the original post that started this thread or here:

http://files.filefront.com/IL2+Aircraft+Performancepdf/...25033;/fileinfo.html

Its finding are slightly interesting because they deviate a little from what has been found elsewhere.

Hope you enjoy and cheers,
Jay

quote:

Originally posted by jayhall0315:
Hey guys,
After getting alot of criticism for flying the La-7, I decided to become a virtual test pilot and put several airframes to the crucible. You can find this new article in the original post that started this thread or here:

http://files.filefront.com/IL2+Aircraft+Performancepdf/...25033;/fileinfo.html

Its finding are slightly interesting because they deviate a little from what has been found elsewhere.

Hope you enjoy and cheers,
Jay

Well done! I was kind of surprised with the results from the Zero, but I guess you were way above its corner speed (I really don’t know, I never fly it). Interesting about the PP on the La-7. Could be an error in the FM? I fly that plane so rarely that I can’t even think how it handles. I may take your test criteria and try it with the Yak-3 and 9, which I’ve been flying a lot lately.

What kind of criticism did you get regarding the La-7? It’s a great plane, but a lot of the late war planes are great. Fw-190D9, Bf109K4, Tempest, Spit IX 25#, on and on. I agree it’s easier to fly they a 109, but I don’t think that really makes it the great “n00b” plane that everyone says it is, same for the Spitfire. A n00b will get shot down just as quick as any other plane if he doesn’t know how to fly it. Just my two cents.

quote:

Originally posted by jayhall0315:
Hey guys,
After getting alot of criticism for flying the La-7, I decided to become a virtual test pilot and put several airframes to the crucible. You can find this new article in the original post that started this thread or here:

http://files.filefront.com/IL2+Aircraft+Performancepdf/...25033;/fileinfo.html

Its finding are slightly interesting because they deviate a little from what has been found elsewhere.

Hope you enjoy and cheers,
Jay

You have done something wrong... I can get 10-30kmph more than you in level flight with those planes... However, about the criticism. La5FN and La7 are the two easiest planes of the whole game. With easy I do not mean "good", but simply the ease of flight. They dont really stall (or spin) unless you really want them to, they are stable and very predictable. That combined to their pretty OK performance when it comes to arcade gaming (weapons, low alt low speed maneuverability, turning radius, relatively low corner speed and good energy retention) makes them a complete noob plane.

On full real historic servers, its a whole different story. La7 and la5FN both lose a big deal of their performance at high altitudes, they cant really be used for bombing or even strafing, they have only average cockpit visibility, they have small fuel tanks (and like to drink o a lot of gas), need constant change of mixture, supercharger stage and pp and for last but the furthest from least, have, compared to their typical competitors 109G6AS, K4 and FW190A9 and D9, relatively low top speed. They are unable to disengage any fighter, cant follow the enemy in the dive(this goes especially to the La5FN) and are due to the lack of high alt performance, competitive top speed and adequate cockpit visibility pretty crappy planes for squad tactics. As a nice bonus simply the letters and the number "LA-7" in the scoreboard makes its pilot feel like if he had some sort of an aura of invulnerability around him. This, of course, leads him to underestimate his enemy, overestimate himself, to not think about what hes doing. He will be brought to decorate the landscape, involuntarily though, by the nearest FW190A rotte hunting for easy prey. Those who like flying FW190 on spit vs 109 or WC know what I mean, for the same goes for Spitfires.

I remember 2, perhaps 2½ years ago when I flew CAD war, Balaton winter map, -44. I was in a 109G6 late with my 3 mates, we were supposed to clear the airspace above Sifoik(or something, a town just South of the Lake Balaton)for our bombers. We engaged 3 La5FNs at 6000m. all my 3 mates were quickly shot down. Alone, I could do some 10min(surprisingly long) B&Z on the Lavochins, they evading all my attacks. However, they soon gathered the energy gap between us, and I was forced to make a run for it - to North and quick! Engine having overheated for a few min already I took a quick glance behind me just north of the lake, seeing all 3 Las in a pretty tight formation, some 600m behind me. All the La5 guys belonged to a one pretty known squadron, and were all very good pilots. At least at that time at least equal, all probably better than me. They were now in far superior planes, 3 against 1, and already in my 6. Great. Below me, I saw an airfield I thought was ours, and wondered why I hadnt began my dive to it any earlier. I made a half roll, pulled back and set in a 90 deg dive all 3 La5s in my tail, well inside the shooting range already. My latest reason why not to fly a noob plane became brutally evident to the the Las chasing me, firing then and then too, when my speed gauge hit 800kmph. I couldnt believe what I was seeing when I rolled to look behind me just see the first la5 passing me with only one wing connected, the other following shortly behind, and seeing the 2nd one pulling up - too late. The field of course was full of the Red Army's flak, but I still somehow made it home. After landing a La5 flew over me, not shooting, waving its wings and turning back to home. With one aileron surface missing.

************

There are 311 planes in this game. some 230 of them are flyable. Why to fly those 5, la7, la5fn, i185, fw190d9, spitfire 25lbs when there are so many more in the game? Just dont tell me because theyre boring 'cos they cant do the same as those fancy late-war turns-on-a-dime cannonboats....

Take no notice of anyone criticsing you for flying the La7.

On Ukded servers if there is an La7 there then the blue side have planes which can counter it. Result noone gets criticised for flying the Lavochkins.

I recommend changing servers
if you are geting hassle for flying it. Either that or just ignore them.

Take a flight on Ukded2, they have some fantastic maps with exotic planesets you dont see anywhere else.

Also you can suggest planesets or maps in the map-making forum :-

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Example of a map making thread :-

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=13541

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=15176

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Take no notice of anyone criticsing you for flying the La7.

On Ukded servers if there is an La7 there then the blue side have planes which can counter it. Result noone gets criticised for flying the Lavochkins.

I recommend changing servers
if you are geting hassle for flying it. Either that or just ignore them.

Take a flight on Ukded2, they have some fantastic maps with exotic planesets you dont see anywhere else.

Also you can suggest planesets or maps in the map-making forum :-

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Example of a map making thread :-

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=13541

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=15176

+1

Xiolablu3 makes a great point about the La-7.

UKDed2 is fantastic, unfortunately everybody goes to bed by the time I get there, usually.

Much has been said about the La-7 and while its quite fun to fly its not the best combat plane. Its an easy combat plane...but not the best. If I fly it in combat I'm actually irritated by it because I can't fight the way I want to...I have to fight the way the other guy wants to and if the other guy is faster or similar in speed to me and wants to dive away then there is little I can do to stop him.

I actually enjoy flying the La-5 and La-5F more than the later models. With the La-7 its up against the top performing planes of the war.

quote:

Originally posted by Erkki_M:

You have done something wrong... I can get 10-30kmph more than you in level flight with those planes...

Just a note of caution there Erkki, and that is to make sure that you read exactly how I set up the test with the QMB. If you accidentally start your dive from somewhat higher then you might see speeds 10-30 kph greater (at least in the short run).

As for your notes on other top late war planes like the FW-190 D9, I agree that the La-7 would be out of its league on a full real historical server.

Jay

quote:

Originally posted by crucislancer:

.... but I guess you were way above its corner speed (I really don’t know, I never fly it).

A n00b will get shot down just as quick as any other plane if he doesn’t know how to fly it. Just my two cents.

Hey Crucislancer,
Better to ask someone who knows far more than me, but I think the best corner speed for that model of Zero is about ~290 kph. I only did the turning time tests at an initial velocity of 400 kph because this is how noobs often approach their enemies in their first months online (that is at high speed and straight on).

As for the whole its the plane, no its the pilot debate; my take is that IL2 flight performance is about ~70-90% the pilot and ~10-20% familiarity with the plane.

If you get a chance, try my run through with your Yak and give us the data if you have time - I will add it in.

Thanks,
Jay

quote:

Originally posted by jayhall0315:
Just a note of caution there Erkki, and that is to make sure that you read exactly how I set up the test with the QMB. If you accidentally start your dive from somewhat higher then you might see speeds 10-30 kph greater (at least in the short run).

Nope, I can get them without diving at all.. In a slight climb too.

Remember you wont get the best speed out of it by simply slamming 110% engine power and shutting radiator.

Well Erkki, can you explain your methodology in detail and step by step, because I just dont see how you can get that in level flight at 50 m.

Thanks,
Jay

http://mbnet.fi/erkki_m/p51speedtest.ntrk

610 in a very shallow dive, about 590 in level. Not 570.

40m-10m.



Also, remember to use TAS, not IAS.

This Ntrk is not duplicating what I am doing in my article. I am also using the speedbar (which is IAS, I believe) on the lower left so as to help out noobs.

Jay

Okay guys, getting ready to add some Ntrk files to the guide so newbie's can better visually see what and what not to do. If you have any suggestions about items which you feel are really missing from the guide, please let me know. Hopefully it will keep getting better.

Thanks,
Jay

First, speedbar is inaccurate.. The true TAS might differ even 5kmph (almost 1,5m/s). Secondly, you might want to consider using Kuban (the only map with 20C and normal air pressure in the deck, also, remember to set clock 12!), close radiators, set mixture 120%, hit supercharger stages from 1 to 2 and back multiple times a second, optimize the PP(works on some planes only) and trim your plane perfectly (rudder at least...). You must also wait further than 30 seconds to get the very last bits of performance out. And yes, I can make most of those fly that 10-20kmph faster even in the speedbar-IAS.

Writing a .pdf guide wont insta make you an expert...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Erkki_M,

Working on some small changes and getting some Ntrk files added for new guys later this week. If you guys know of any very good Ntrk files specifically aimed at basic tactics (and only tactics) for beginners, please post here.

Thanks,
Jay

Hello Fellow IL2 Fans,
Version 3.5 of the Guide is now up and includes some small reworkings on the server settings section and tips about etiquette at runways. There are also several small edits and a slight change to the list of Master level flyers.

Cheers,
Jay

Getting ready to add a list of known Masters with some details of their flying. If you would like to submit candidates for the Master rank, please post here or pm me.

Thanks,
Jay

Vesion 3.6 of the guide is now up and includes a much more honest discussion of cheating and how it occurs. I got tired of all the cloak and dagger crap with websites and forums refusing to educate flyers in a responsible nature as to the threat of real cheating so I made some of the information more freely available. Definitely a topic that new guys also worry about when they begin as well.

Cheers,
Jay

Gee, just read the noob guide. A noob guide indeed.

"Energy management" is NOT

quote:

flying without wasted aircraft motion or erratic joystick input. You want to have nice smooth rolls and passes along with sometimes quick slips which do not waste your speed or kinetic energy.

Energy management is knowing when to convert potential into kinetic energy and v.v., when to gain and lose energy and how to convert an energy advantage into angles over the opponent.

Also, the words "ego" and "class" appear too many times in something that is supposed to be a manual.

Sorry Sterling, but I did not have time to write up a longer more detailed look at energy conservation and management. I suggest the 'In Pursuit' mini-book by Johan Kylander for more detailed reading.

I could have gone into a more detailed and longer discussion of energy tactics but this would have gone right over the head of many new guys and would have great expanded the guide in printed size, which is not my intention.

Hope you still found some other things of value though within.

Cheers,
Jay