quote:

Originally posted by jayhall0315:

...greedy lawyers off many people's backs.

Jay

Hehe they're only sustaining the greed of individual and corporate Americans. Apart from that, I can understand why your guide was pulled. Its ok though, it just needs tweaking.

Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by dieg777:
It is good manners and gives due credit, which is all that most would expect and would only take up a few lines at the end of your document.

.... if , after spending time and effort on a product, some competitor marketed a cheaper replica.

Okay, I agree with the good manners point and it is well made. It will be a minor pain in the butt, but later this week, I will list all image references that I can find at the end of the article to give full credit.

The images of the Track IR and CH Products are for the record (at least according to the legal counsel at my University) not covered under any copyright or trademark (as pertains to only the images themselves). Actually, all the images but two (which I am checking) already comply with most US intellectual property law if you want to be very nitpicky.

In your other comments about someone marketing a cheaper replica, that is just it, you are talking about marketing something, ie selling something to make a profit. Big difference between that and what I am doing. This Guide is totally free and not for profit. I am not attempting to market anything and no attempt is being made to make money in any way.

I will register this Guide under the GNU Public License shortly just to make sure that everything is legally solid. After that, it will be like the great Ubuntu operating system that keeps getting better because so many people are free to use past open source programs and then modify the source code (as long as it is not distributed for profit).

Jay

Okee dokee - I am tracking down every image in my guide and will list all image references in Version 2.4 of the guide later this week before I register it under the GNU Public License. I also have an image of a custom skinned La-7 in my guide that I cannot identify. Can anyone identify that so I can give credit to the artist or correct squadron?

I am also searching for the following video clips for Version 3.0 if anyone would like to contribute (full credit and your name (if you want) will appear in the guide (and your server or team if you want as well)).

I need (just post youtube link if that is easier and I will contact owner):

Video clip of accurate deflection shooting from the side (fighter versus fighter).

Video clip of typical bad noob flying.

Video clip of correct boom and zoom by FW 190 on plane flown by noob.

Video clip from very high level flyer showing several kills in one outing and under three minutes long if possible.

A very bright or beautiful example of a full custom skin (for any main type of fighter).

Thanks,
Jay

Ver 2.3 changes include:

Energy Management
Open versus Closed Cockpit
Online Ratings explanation
Rewording of 'Russian Bias' section (thanks Dart)
Several small edits for clarity

I may be able to help with some tracks of those things, particularly the B&Z flying.
- its all I do these days, dogfighting being a waste of time and too dangerous.

But they will be in simple .trk form, and may need editing. Can you do that?

quote:

Originally posted by jayhall0315:

The images of the Track IR and CH Products are for the record (at least according to the legal counsel at my University) not covered under any copyright or trademark (as pertains to only the images themselves). Actually, all the images but two (which I am checking) already comply with most US intellectual property law if you want to be very nitpicky.

Jay

Well your legal department might be wrong is this area......

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I may be able to help with some tracks of those things, particularly the B&Z flying.
- its all I do these days, dogfighting being a waste of time and too dangerous.

But they will be in simple .trk form, and may need editing. Can you do that?

Yes, I think that would be no problem. Please send me the files or links, and I will get started. Very considerate of you and thanks for your time.

Jay

quote:

Originally posted by NP_Vincent:

quote:

Originally posted by jayhall0315:

The images of the Track IR and CH Products are for the record (at least according to the legal counsel at my University) not covered under any copyright or trademark (as pertains to only the images themselves). Actually, all the images but two (which I am checking) already comply with most US intellectual property law if you want to be very nitpicky.

Jay

Well your legal department might be wrong is this area......

I wish I had a legal department, lol. No, just talked to a staff attorney for our graduate school who has worked with intellectual property matters before. Basically, this guide (with two exceptions possibly and not the ones you mention) is in full compliance with the DMCA of 1998, the EUCD and the HTML code will be viable under the GNU Public License. Also realize that the EUCD is not nearly as strict in many of its small details as Title I of the DMCA. There are also differences as pertain to the EUCD with respect to images and DMCA Titles I and II.

Jay

Jay

It would still be smart in the long run to either get permission or find another image.
You might win a case but what you really want to do is avoid litigation or fees at all.

CH and TIR may be happy for free advertising, may want an extra image or two. Put in a link
to them and maybe you can collect the same as a website banner. But tell them about going GNU.

Wikipedia public domain images links.

More free image sources.

Lot of searching but the pool is free.

quote:

Originally posted by jayhall0315:
All you folks who worry about intellectual property might also want to brush up on the GNU Public License. It has become more and more popular in the last five years and is how my lab writes software and distributes new ideas usually. This is also how Ubuntu and Open Office are distributed and has been a godsend for getting greedy lawyers off many people's backs. Check it out.

Jay

So has all that trouble with SCO actually been completely settled? You do know about that?
There's been a court battle over many features added to Linux that were said to have been
taken by people with too much knowledge in the original code which SCO did buy.
Last I saw the issue had died down but no final decision either way was made, but then I
haven't been like a hawk at watching but rather depend on the headlines since every move
so far has made the headlines.

Okay, I dont really want to make this a thread about intellectual property and open source compliance but I will try to answer Gunz. Most of you are probably not familar with SCO which was a Utah based company that believed it owned parts of the Unix kernel. In the 90s other companies began using Unix like kernels (including RedHat, Daimler Chysler, IBM and many others) without paying license or royalty fees to SCO. SCO already suffering from management problems began to sue everyone it could find. So far SCO's lawsuits against everyone have gone no where. Their case against DaimlerChysler was dismissed. Most of their case against Novell was dismissed even before court and Novell won the judgement (ie it is regarded as the sole owner of Unix) and SCO is now in US bankruptcy court.

Linux as most of you know was begun by Linus Torvalds and most successful Linux distros (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Mandriva etc) has been published under the GNU Public License started by Richard Stallman. The Linux kernel itself was orginally based on some Unix code but today's modern Linux kernel is a compilation of code from thousands of programmers who all work openly under the GNU Public License. Most of the code in the Linux kernel is new work but some portions that mimic features found in other operating systems like Windows have been reverse engineered (and is the reason Microsoft will likely never be able to successfully sue most Linux distros). Linux and the GNU Public License has also withstood all major court cases so far, including rulings in the US, Denmark, South Korea, and Germany. The GNU Public License has been a godsend for our lab, our University and the free flow of information in general and I think you will see its rise in the coming decade (right now, less than 1.5% of home users in the USA use Linux, but thanks to Vista , I think you will see that changing soon). Also note, that the US is almost alone in the world in offering patents to software code and allowing draconian measures as concerns images under the DMCA. Most countries are not nearly as restrictive and this is because the DMCA was passed with major campaign contributions (from several large Hollywood studios and entertainment companies) to US lawmakers in exchange for the law

Remember in the ole days when just burning a 2x CD required a very expensive burner and expensive proprietary software. Think about it today, plenty of software companies just reverse engineered the requiremnts for CD/DVD burning and now you can find a dozen free or shareware programs that will burn a CD just as well as Nero or Roxio. Most of the great programmers in my lab believe that this is where the entire operating system scene will move as well. By 2020 perhaps, you will have dozens of free Linux based operating systems that have fully reverse engineered all Direct X code (as the Wine project is currently doing)and will be able to play your IL2 game even faster and better than today's XP or Vista.

I must also say that this 'free and open' approach to donating work, instead of expecting a profit from it is paying powerful dividends. At the most recent hacker conference (I think Vancouver Canada), the Vista notebook was hacked in a few minutes, the Apple notebook the next day if I remember correctly and the Ubuntu notebook was never successfully attacked. This was because the source code of Ubuntu is entirely open for all to see and once someone finds a flaw they can report it to better protect everyone else who uses Ubuntu. Because everyone is free to modify Ubuntu as they see fit, many thousands of people keep helping to improve it and it has therefore become very difficult to hack. Contrast this to Windows where Microsoft will never release the source code and therefore suffers from continual security problems and exploits. In some aspects it really brings a smile to my face because the GNU Public License is empowering humanity to act at its best.

I should also say that as an American, I have also become somewhat ashamed of my own country and their tendancy to sue anything that moves. The actions of the SCO Grooup reflect this in it's worst light. I have spent three years of my life living in Europe and one year in Korea and one year in Japan and I can tell you that their attitudes towards these intellectual property issues are somewhat different and certainly less draconian. Europe right now seems to be all about innovation and new ideas (much as the US was in the 90s) where as America is much more concerned with incriminations. At its very worst, hackers and pirates in Europe are treated with fines, pay cuts or counseling but the US seems intent on sending these people to the same prisons as much more hardcore criminals and making sure that they have the stain of a felony on their record. This not only punishes the crime but prevents the criminal from recuperating in the future. It would take 10 volumes of a thousand pages each to even begin to touch all the issues but in short, when I travel to Europe, I see "Well I've got a good idea and I want to share it with the world and if it gets changed in the process then so be it." In the USA, I see much more of, "Well, I've got an idea, and I am going to patent, trademark and copyright it until no one else can use it without money coming into my pocketbook and I will sue rigoursly to defend my imagined profits"

Definitely something to ponder

Jay

Ohh, and as for the guide itself, I like Linus Torvald's approach. You can use it, modify it (even without giving credit to me) and openly share or change it with whoever you want. Heck if you really dont like a certain section in it, print it out and use it as toilet paper. Just have fun with it.

you are somewhat obsessed with this little project arent you, mate?

Well, not really. But I was quite frustrated in my first week with Hyperlobby as I flew my F4U-D Corsair around and kept getting shot down from opponents I did not even see. I mean at that point, I knew I was bad, but I didnt think I was that bad. Come to find out that all the guys on that server were flying open cockpit and with La-7s. When I discoverd this a few days later I almost crapped myself. So I thought, "Why not write something that can help out new guys who follow behind me" and hence the Guide.

Jay

Good guide Jay Although I don't agree with some of the materials on there

Some generalization though about Intermediate and 'Expertens' are correct, in how they fly and engage

Jay, I dealt with SCO back in 1990-93 setting up, maintaining and running a Xenix net for a
small company that I also wrote DOS code for. SCO was a PITA but they had good stuff for
micros.

Nice to know they might make make the extinct species list.

I got into Linux in 95 and stayed with it until I couldn't. Never did get a customer to go
with Linux though, the amount of M$ brainwash has kept it premier and will for longer than
you think. Something you will learn maybe is that the ones who make the decisions often are
capable of dealing with one OS if that, the good ones might get called power-users which is
sort of a joke how little you needed to get called that. Whatever they learned in school or
their friends say is the golden way -- ie BS rules. IBM did it before, 2nd rate tech and
sales people 2nd to none. Punch cards only lived as long as they did because of IBM.

The US is mainly where X-Windows was born, isn't it? Look at the philosophy there. Then
a couple thieves moved in and pretended "us too, we want to share" and what happened?
Do you know that Bill Gates led the software developers group that petitioned Congress to
force the big manufacturers to unbundle software from hardware? IBM, Honeywell, Sperry,
Burroughs, they all sold complete systems until forced to open up. And then what did
gates do to close the door on his competition? He BUNDLED and he provided cut-rate OS
and apps to OEM's and more important to schools. How many bus-ad students do you know that
have more than one OS in them? How many that will go on to say their company or department
will use what they do?

The whole country is being stolen. IPA laws from the 90's didn't help. Money makes its
own rules. Inflation has replaced taxes, the govt just borrows and spends on inflation.
Who pays the bill is anyone who buys anything taxed, the more of your income you need just
to get by the heavier the burden. Sorry but most of the country is slow when it comes to
math but then after the 1980 education cuts the result was predictable.

I was real happy when Linux got to 10% but I've been around and doing business since over
30 years ago. Dirty tricks, popularity and peer pressure and just plain BS will keep this
boat going down the dirty brown creek far longer than logic or sense would predict, it
already has.

AFAIC Bill Gates has done computing a great crime. He isn't getting any poorer. In the
US anti-trust trial M$ came out stronger than before since the "fine" was paid in software
to schools which allowed them to print their own money as it were and put it where it will
cement a majority of future managers and CEO's into supporting the tyrant.
I've seen more than a few good companies and products ground into the dirt by M$ just by
being hauled into court and hung there till bled dry over a little nothing that the judges
just couldn't see. Do you know how Gates was able to steal PCDOS that IBM paid him for?
Do you know where he got it? Have you ever touched CP/M? I cut teeth on it. What kind
of court passes distinction between 8088 and 8086 code when there were NO instructions
used that did not run on 8088's? Morons. A lawyer with an IQ of 50 is called "Your Honor".

You may have all the right in the world to this or that but someone with enough money can
still hang you up, and sometimes it takes a lot less than you'd think. That's why I give
links to the free stuff. OTOH maybe your university has a collection too.

I guess you're not at CMU either. Shame, they're quite close here.

quote:

Originally posted by X32Wright:
Good guide Jay Although I don't agree with some of the materials on there

Some generalization though about Intermediate and 'Expertens' are correct, in how they fly and engage

What is funny Wright is that you know me bye another name since I often come onto Tihi's server. I learned alot from you in the previous weeks and had fun. See you this week.

Jay

And those guns of mine keep getting deadlier.

quote:

....I've seen more than a few good companies and products ground into the dirt by M$ just by
being hauled into court and hung there till bled dry over a little nothing that the judges
just couldn't see.

I dont want to get this thread off topic but I think the GNU Public License will eventually spell doom for the Windows series of OSes, and Microsoft will gradually have to expand other branches (like the XBOX stuff) to maintain profits. That is just the thing too, lets suppose some major judgement in the USA came against Ubuntu. No one else in the rest of the world gives a #%^*. Most Europeans already disregard our draconian software patents and even if there were a Microsoft win in federal court or the Supreme Court, that would not prevent Norway, Germany, Sweden, South Africa, Malaysia, .................. from using Ubuntu and other Linux derivatives as official government policy.

There will always be those who favor closed source and closed business models and those who favor totally open source and open business models with the stipulation that no one man gets really rich with open models but in return the whole community benefits. As for me, I will make my stand on the side of open source programming and the GNU Public License and likewise for this Guide.

Jay

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I cant see any problem with the images guys? Whats the big deal?

According to SimHQ FAQ

quote:

- Participants shall not post any material that is likely to cause offence, protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right - without the express permission of the owner of such copyright - or that contains personal contact information, phone numbers or addresses.

Every picture is copyright protected, unless the owner writes something else.

E.g. you make a photo from the sunset then you automaticaly have the copyright for it unless you release the photo from it.

quote:

Originally posted by No41Sqn_Banks:

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I cant see any problem with the images guys? Whats the big deal?

According to SimHQ FAQ

quote:

- Participants shall not post any material that is likely to cause offence, protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right - without the express permission of the owner of such copyright - or that contains personal contact information, phone numbers or addresses.

Every picture is copyright protected, unless the owner writes something else.

E.g. you make a photo from the sunset then you automaticaly have the copyright for it unless you release the photo from it.

This is what I thought would be the truth as well. Actually, while it is a very common assumption, it is totally untrue from the actual legal and intellectual property standpoint. You should read up on the DMCA and individual statutes, and you might be really surprised. I know I was.

Jay

quote:

Originally posted by jayhall0315:
This is what I thought would be the truth as well. Actually, while it is a very common assumption, it is totally untrue from the actual legal and intellectual property standpoint. You should read up on the DMCA and individual statutes, and you might be really surprised. I know I was.

Well fortunatly the world does not end at the US border I don't really care about any law in the US and SimHQ (registered in CA) doesn't need to care either.

When you registerd to SimHQ you accepted the following agreement ( http://www.simhq.com/_aboutus/aboutus.html#agreement ):

quote:

Image posting and reposting. We cannot allow unauthorized, copyrighted images in the SimHQ Forums. If you find an image that you know is copyrighted and not posted by the owner, email the webmaster and it will be deleted. We will allow: a) images created by the poster; b) screenshots taken by the poster; c) images and/or screenshots directly released from developers to promote their games/sims. Do not post images originally published on another enthusiast web site. In all other cases beside these examples a link to the image at the source site must be used in lieu of the reposted image. We ask that members not repeatedly embed images in their posts, similar to a signature image. Any images not complying with those criteria will be deleted.