Salute All

Below is a link to a report on flying a real 109E. Note the references to the constricted view, tight cockpit, the high speed elevator response, and the tricky takeoff and landing with the wheel and center of gravity.

Let's hope Oleg talks to the people who fly the plane.

The reporting pilot is former air force, as well as test pilot with the Canadian National Research Council, with over 7000 hours of flight time in 140 types of aircraft, from Jets to helicopters, with experience in flying Spitfires and Hurricanes.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/page?a=1261&lang=en-CA

"Bouncing Clouds-flying with the spirit of Erich Hartmann"

I never knew E.H. flew Emils

Great find

quote:

Returning to the cockpit with my German-English dictionary and a calculator, I took note of the controls.

I know the feeling...

Great pics!

quote:

Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
"Bouncing Clouds-flying with the spirit of Erich Hartmann"

I never knew E.H. flew Emils

He flew about every version of the 109 ever built even the earlier "d" models. Maybe even the "c" These versions he flew as training ships.

Great article, thanks for posting that.

What I took out of it was a testament to how well the BF109 flight model was crafted in IL2.

The description of the handling nuances could read as a review of what we have in game (sans the need for manual prop adjustment).

It seems to me Oleg has been talking to the right people.

quote:

Originally posted by faustnik:
Great pics!

Hi Faustnik, how you been?


Very interesting read, thank,s We musnt forget however that his 'comparison' is between a Spitfire IX LF 1943 and a Bf109E 1940/41.

Would have been perfect if the SPit was a Mk1 or Mk2. Spit MkI/II vs 109E.

Or even that Spit IX vs 109G6.

Btw before I forget nice article buzzsaw.

IMO , a small problem with all these "snap evaluations" of ww 2 aircraft thou. One needs TIME with one's bird and a lot of it to really get the feel for all it's advantages,disadvantages and quirks.

quote:

Originally posted by stalkervision:
Btw before I forget nice article buzzsaw.

IMO , a small problem with all these "snap evaluations" of ww 2 aircraft thou. One needs TIME with one's bird and a lot of it to really get the feel for all it's advantages,disadvantages and quirks.

No question that the more time one has in an aircraft, the better one can fly it.

However this particular pilot, as I mentioned, is a former Test pilot for the Canadian National Research Council, trained particularly to analyze the qualities of the aircraft he is flying. He is extremely technically knowledgeable, and his observations and ability to understand an aircraft's strengths and limitations are based on an emperical method.

Test pilots often have only one chance to understand the aircraft they are flying, because they are often the first to fly it, so they are trained and selected as those who instantly can analyze the characteristics and qualities of an aircraft.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:

quote:

Originally posted by stalkervision:
Btw before I forget nice article buzzsaw.

IMO , a small problem with all these "snap evaluations" of ww 2 aircraft thou. One needs TIME with one's bird and a lot of it to really get the feel for all it's advantages,disadvantages and quirks.

No question that the more time one has in an aircraft, the better one can fly it.

However this particular pilot, as I mentioned, is a former Test pilot for the Canadian National Research Council, trained particularly to analyze the qualities of the aircraft he is flying. He is extremely technically knowledgeable, and his observations and ability to understand an aircraft's strengths and limitations are based on an emperical method.

Ya he is certainly more qualified then most isn't he? If one had to take a "snap judgment" I would pick him as in the top five guys B/S.

I know this will sound silly and hardly relevant to a test pilot with a real 109 of course but in all the sims I have tried to 109 is the hardest to like right off the bat. It has "certain quirks" that other aircraft like the spits don't exhibit in sims. Spits always seem to fly the same as other spits do which is pretty undemanding imo usually but the 109 needs TIME even in a sim to truly appreciate and love.

off the bat imo no one would love a 109 immediately if given a choice of aircraft to fly.

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Hi Faustnik, how you been?

Good to see you Xiolablu3!

quote:

Originally posted by faustnik:

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Hi Faustnik, how you been?

Good to see you Xiolablu3!

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

quote:

Originally posted by faustnik:
Great pics!

Hi Faustnik, how you been?


Very interesting read, thank,s We musnt forget however that his 'comparison' is between a Spitfire IX LF 1943 and a Bf109E 1940/41.

Would have been perfect if the SPit was a Mk1 or Mk2. Spit MkI/II vs 109E.

Or even that Spit IX vs 109G6.

Salute

Rob has flown a Spitfire IX and XVI. And while obviously both of these aircraft are not the same generation as the 109E, in the context of the points Rob noted, they are still useful for comparison purposes.

I have met Rob personally, and talked about the parameters of flying these aircraft, and they are by no means flown to their combat level potential, in fact, none of the vintage aircraft at any agency or organization are.

The Spitfires that Rob has flown are never taken over +6 boost, (+25 was the max. wartime level) they are flown on 100 octane fuel, there is no other higher octane fuel commercially available, if you want higher, you have to mix it yourself, not practical for aircraft which are used very regularly. So obviously they are not performing up to the standards of a wartime IXLF.

Neither is the 109E flown to it wartime maximum engine boost levels, ie. 1.30 ata, as noted, max. boost used in this flight was 1.15 ata, a proportionately higher boost level than is being currently used on the Spitfires, but the fuel used historically in the 109E was no better than that available now.

What is relevant in these types of flight reports are the general handling characteristics of the respective aircraft, their behaviour at stall, in level flight at various speeds, and at takeoff and landing.

As well, things like cockpit view, ease and accessibility of controls, etc.

Those observations can provide valuable insight into what it was really like to fly these 60 year old birds.

For example, he noted the manual pitch control on the Prop means the pilot needs to be adjusting continuously as he climbs or dives.

That is something which should be incorporated into the BoB model of the 109E, since almost all of the German fighters of that era had only manual pitch control. (and obviously the two speed versions of the Hurricane and Spitfire would also need to reflect the disadvantages of their propellor types)

5'9", and with a helmet and 'chute the canopy was 2 inches from closing? Just how short WERE people back then?

Nice find

I just love the Emil

BTW dos anyone have any news if they have fixed white 14 after the accident they had some time ago?...

Really good article! He must be one heck of a pilot, period. With more time in that plane he'd be much better surely.

One thing about monitoring engine speed is it is best done by ear with only occasional glances at the gauges but that
does take time in or on any vehicle. I don't how it would be terribly different in the 109 especially after reading
his description of the engine sound difference between the wingovers there. I'm sure he didn't have long enough aloft
to do half of what he wanted but you, hey you might actually be able to ask or even interview him! Major Envy, LOL!
If you do get the chance then please take a voice recorder of some kind!

What he said about the tilted gear wheels ground contact -- never seen it written before and a huge plus as to how good
he is for picking that up. Hell, 3++'s. He also did point out a number of good flying traits as well as the ability
to stall the ailerons (or is it the length of the wing with aileron? clarification for us non-test-pilots?).

I expect any time here to see Kurfurst dissect the article and some others (be sure plural) to get heavy-duty AE on it too.

Last bit... 109E vs Spit-what? Hardly sporting!

quote:

Originally posted by faustnik:
Great pics!

Salute and where you been? Got some good fishing stories (IIRC you have a boat)?

quote:

Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
Great article, thanks for posting that.

What I took out of it was a testament to how well the BF109 flight model was crafted in IL2.

The description of the handling nuances could read as a review of what we have in game (sans the need for manual prop adjustment).

It seems to me Oleg has been talking to the right people.

Absolutely agree. Sorry buzzsaw.

Great article,
Nice to read real world thoughts on a war bird rather than the chart whining "facts" that seem to be the norm of those that find that their favorite plane has been "porked" in the Ubi zoo.

quote:

Originally posted by M_Gunz:

quote:

Originally posted by faustnik:
Great pics!

Salute and where you been?

M_Gunz,

Great to see you!

I'll sent a PM to you.