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Try 1:1 of those at under 300kph, maybe under 380kph as well. "My views are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my Squad or its members" |
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No doubt about it...
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Is it going to work like Bf-109 vs I-153 thing?  "Controversially, Pierce's final Zeke kill on this month took the form of Tom McGuire's seemingly indestructible fifth victim, the former having watched growing impatience as the major, and several other P-38 pilots in his formation, made futile attempts at downing the Japanese fighter. With a sure hand, he deftly dropped down on the unfortunate Zeke from a superior altitude, slotted in behind it, and promptly shot it down with a single burst! Pierce shrugged off the personal invective levelled at him over the airwaves by a rather peeved McGuire, who accused him of being 'a thieving interlooper'."   |
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I like the looks of the p-52b/c with the framed canopy for some strange reason.
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Hay now I know!
 Framed canopies don't jam !  |
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IIRC the P51 and 190D speed vs altitude curves cross at a few altitudes. If you're serious about flying a particular plane, it pays off to know what your optimum altitudes for speed are. Download IL2 compare and learn!
Your feeling about the turn of the Mustang mkIII is absolutely correct. Compare the other Mustang's turn curves to it in the above program. However, if you find yourself going for a minimum radius turn in the P51, IMO you've made a bundle of mistakes already. It simply doesn't hold it's energy during turns, especially compared to 109s. Even if you think you can turn onto the six of a lone Dora, very often the enemy won't be alone for long. In the '51 especially, you'll be at the mercy of any other blues who turn up. Like the dora (and IMO more so), the '51 loses a hell of a lot of speed with a few wing holes, which you're much more susceptible to in a turn fight. ----------------------------------- flying as 453_Whittle |
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Like that, kinda yeah. We have FW-190A-4 with thin prop and I dunno if any of our FW's are wide prop so lowspeed accel and climb may not echo words about tested FW's with wide prop. The gap between 109 or other less high speed fighters and some of our FW's may be wider than expected because of that. It depends on what people read and believe to get those expectations though. I wonder how many WWII pilots died because they thought they knew the stack-up and did not? I don't even count the big surprises when new models came out for one side or the other, just the times when there were more variables than the pilot had considered. "My views are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my Squad or its members" |
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The only Mustang that scares me in a Dora is the Mustang MkIII at any altitude. A higher Mustang is also a worry (almost any late war plane is) but if its at the same level of just above I put my faith in the Dora.
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I did...  Yes, I never considered turning with Bf-109 in such manner (careless horizontal turn at medium speed, even if it was deeply over my territory)... It's not important what I think, it's important what is possible to do there about the issue! And now I'm fairly positive that P-51D can't outturn FW-190D in sustained horizontal turn... sure thing FW doesn't outturn P-51 easily, but I wont be in such position anymore, be sure  especially so when I was the one who initiated it, thinking "he's damaged he'll be an easy target now...". Well, I went in for a surprise...That is true because P-51D can't rely on classic climb in danger to re-gain height, but only on high speed semi-zoom climbs to get out of danger... just about everything on WF outclimbs the P-51D. Yes, but IMO a P-51 has very slight advantage here being able to trim out some of the damage... how does that compute on a speed (if we can gain a few kph more due to damage trim-out), I have no idea, because that's very hard to check out (for that to test, one should inflict a controlled damage and check, and TBH that, to date, no one did).  *edit - oh snap i posted Mustang Mk.III vs FW-190D9E chart above, now corrected tho .This message has been edited. Last edited by: DKoor, "Controversially, Pierce's final Zeke kill on this month took the form of Tom McGuire's seemingly indestructible fifth victim, the former having watched growing impatience as the major, and several other P-38 pilots in his formation, made futile attempts at downing the Japanese fighter. With a sure hand, he deftly dropped down on the unfortunate Zeke from a superior altitude, slotted in behind it, and promptly shot it down with a single burst! Pierce shrugged off the personal invective levelled at him over the airwaves by a rather peeved McGuire, who accused him of being 'a thieving interlooper'." |
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+1 I'm quite sure that the number of such incidents in ww2 would be surprising... I specifically remembered one P-38 pilot (in MTO), Joel Owens of 27FS, saying how, in one of the times he encountered a Bf-109's, he shot one down in quite unordinary way... He said something like how 109 tried sharp climb in order to get rid of him and so German just pulled his Messerschmitt straight up in a zoom climb; but the P-38 was able to follow that, and to a German horror he actually realized that P-38 is closing on him! And by some miracle 109 pilot survived that maneuver... Bf-109 pilot couldn't believe it, when he saw the P-38 latching onto his tail again and as a desperate move he again went into a sharp climb! But this time he ran out of luck as the American aimed well. Owens was convinced that his opponent had experiences with Tomahawks, Kittyhawks and perhaps even Hurricanes... "Controversially, Pierce's final Zeke kill on this month took the form of Tom McGuire's seemingly indestructible fifth victim, the former having watched growing impatience as the major, and several other P-38 pilots in his formation, made futile attempts at downing the Japanese fighter. With a sure hand, he deftly dropped down on the unfortunate Zeke from a superior altitude, slotted in behind it, and promptly shot it down with a single burst! Pierce shrugged off the personal invective levelled at him over the airwaves by a rather peeved McGuire, who accused him of being 'a thieving interlooper'." |
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I'm also interested to see whether FW-190A9 can match a P-51D in a horizontal sustained turn... some time ago we had exclusive FW-190A8 vs P-51D setup server and FW-190A8 really proved to be an inferior machine in equal fight.
"Controversially, Pierce's final Zeke kill on this month took the form of Tom McGuire's seemingly indestructible fifth victim, the former having watched growing impatience as the major, and several other P-38 pilots in his formation, made futile attempts at downing the Japanese fighter. With a sure hand, he deftly dropped down on the unfortunate Zeke from a superior altitude, slotted in behind it, and promptly shot it down with a single burst! Pierce shrugged off the personal invective levelled at him over the airwaves by a rather peeved McGuire, who accused him of being 'a thieving interlooper'." |
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When having only antons at disposal versus mustangs and tempests, I always pick A6 (and here and there A9) over A8. "In short, the Spitfire MkIX was the best fighting machine of its day. Its great tactical advantage was that, apart from its longer nose and more numerous exhaust stacks, it looked exactly like the inferior Spitfire MkV, and in the air the Germans would not know the difference - until we hit them." ~ Wg Cdr J E 'Johnnie' Johnson |
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FW-190A5 seems to be a better aircraft regarding top speed performance over FW-190A6...
Also FW-190A5-1,65AtA seems to be faster up to 6,000m than both of the mentioned types... however from 1,500m to 3,000m both are faster than 1,65AtA! FW-190A5 SL 576 FW-190A5* 6500 680 FW-190A5-165 SL 589 FW-190A5-165* 5700 662 FW-190A6 SL 576 FW-190A6 5700 658 FW-190A6 6500 672 * - best alt speed Data from V4.08, tested in game. FW-190A8 is a dog compared to them, at least from IL2 Compare  . I haven't tested FW-190A8...*edit wrong data for A6, I tested it on both 5700m and 6500m, different results, now corrected. This message has been edited. Last edited by: DKoor, "Controversially, Pierce's final Zeke kill on this month took the form of Tom McGuire's seemingly indestructible fifth victim, the former having watched growing impatience as the major, and several other P-38 pilots in his formation, made futile attempts at downing the Japanese fighter. With a sure hand, he deftly dropped down on the unfortunate Zeke from a superior altitude, slotted in behind it, and promptly shot it down with a single burst! Pierce shrugged off the personal invective levelled at him over the airwaves by a rather peeved McGuire, who accused him of being 'a thieving interlooper'." |
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Another little titbit from history...
It's often perceived incorrectly that the P-51 was superior to the FW, but it was infact inferior tactics used by the Luftwaffe in combatting the bomber stream. The incorrect tactic decreed by Goering was for all planes ME109 and FWs to only attack the bombers, leaving the P-51's to pick them off with ease. The Luftwaffe pilots changed this tactic to ..ME109's went after the escorts and FW's went after the bombers. - A lot more P51's were suddenly being lost. In the game they're all evenly matched, and it comes down to pilot skill... as usual.   Gimme ... GARLIC & BEETROOT. Also don't forget my hospital Hard Tack |
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Retest A6, it is using same FM as A5 so there shouldn't be difference in speed at alt, 22 kmh difference seems to be too much. FC |
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Will do...
"Controversially, Pierce's final Zeke kill on this month took the form of Tom McGuire's seemingly indestructible fifth victim, the former having watched growing impatience as the major, and several other P-38 pilots in his formation, made futile attempts at downing the Japanese fighter. With a sure hand, he deftly dropped down on the unfortunate Zeke from a superior altitude, slotted in behind it, and promptly shot it down with a single burst! Pierce shrugged off the personal invective levelled at him over the airwaves by a rather peeved McGuire, who accused him of being 'a thieving interlooper'." |
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P-51 above 25k ft has a deceant adv in spedd ect but not alot. at 25k the 51 is only IIRC last time i tested about 3 MPH faster. at 20k the dora is about 5 mph faster. low level the dora has a bit higher speed as long as the p51 does not use PP cheat. the p51 and dora can maintain E about the same. The dora in most cases is slightly better in a dog fight. gets more apariant at lower speeds and when the fight stays in the vert. it is a slightly more twitchy plane in a hard slow turn do to its rool rate but with a bit of exp and or stick settings this is not a problem. the dora has better excelleration at all but above 25 or so ft. Again this adv is most apparint at lower speeds.
It should be noted that in my exp the p51 has a slightly better cooling moddle and is easyer to keep from over heating wich is often times the resone it seems so much faster at alt. if you are being chaced by a dora and have alot of lead time he should not be able to catch you. he may start to catch you but will not maintain that speed as long. if flown right and as i say if the situation is right he will not be able to cathc you. Also in my exp the dora has a edge in climb rate. many times i have gotten the better of stang's even at 20+ ft by gaing alot of speen in level flight then going into a med angle climb. as speeds slow down you will see the stang start to get loose then just go into as hard a turn as you can safly maintain. if he trys to follow he will stall first. Also when flyn a dora, if you have a stang on you and you are at alt you can go into a hard fast dive. at about 480mph pull up sharp if he is still be hind you. if he follows more times than not he will snap a wing. also seems the dora piolet can maintain more hard G with out black out. so chances are he will fall asleep. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Fordfan25:So Mr Oleg,When is the new patch with the -4 corsair to be released? Oleg:We are not planing a new moddle of corsair. We are now working on BoB. Fordfan25: #$%# this Bob guy i want my sair. ----------------------------- http://www.magnum-pc.com/ "your order will ship in under 2 weeks, be sure" |
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IL2 Moderator |
I agree with Fordfans findings.
We should definitely remember that we are comparing an Early 1944 plane with basically a 1945 plane. As we usually fight much lower than the Historical Western front, I prefer the Dora in-game. I know its a great matchup, but the Fw190 is probably my favourite all round plane in the game, the heavier guns make a big difference to me. I still wsouldnt mind flying the P51 in the matchup however..but I find it a bit 'wobbly'. Overall : Advantage Dora IMO, but its very close. -------------------------------------------------------------  "Over Dieppe, the wing was immediately bounced by a hundred FW 190s and a few Me 109s. I heard Johnson effing and blinding as he broke 610 into a fierce attack. I was hard at it dodging 190s, but I found time to speak sharply to Johnson about his foul language." - WingCo Jaime Jameson 12 Group Spitfire |
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Eh... the more I look in the IL2 Compare chart above (P-51D vs FW-190D) the more I'm sure that I could just hit CTRL+E whenever I encounter a Dora...
 "Controversially, Pierce's final Zeke kill on this month took the form of Tom McGuire's seemingly indestructible fifth victim, the former having watched growing impatience as the major, and several other P-38 pilots in his formation, made futile attempts at downing the Japanese fighter. With a sure hand, he deftly dropped down on the unfortunate Zeke from a superior altitude, slotted in behind it, and promptly shot it down with a single burst! Pierce shrugged off the personal invective levelled at him over the airwaves by a rather peeved McGuire, who accused him of being 'a thieving interlooper'." |
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Not even close lol. The Dora out turns the Mustang with ease regardless of speed or altitude. It also out climbs and out dives the Mustang. It is faster then the Mustang at any altitude as well. The FW-190D is far superior to the P-51D in every way. Actually its not even close. S!  VMF-214 The Original BlackSheep of the IL2 series is currently recruiting mature and dedicated pilots. Please visit us at http://vmf214blacksheep.com/ |
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