Lately I've been flying late war setup online, and I find it interesting.
Of course since I flew mostly P-51D, I would like to know some stuff from you guys with more experience.
I can fight successfully vs most axis planes in this setup, except FW-190D which I feel is on par with the P-51D.

My favorite P-51 variant is P-51C, in game, with Malcolm hood .

But to get on topic...

Now... what kind of specific advantages P-51D may hold vs FW-190D in game?

- Can I effectively out-turn Langnase in a fair turn fight (level)? Instant turn (P-51D has absolutely stunning instant turn in game on high speeds, I doubt any of his oppos can match it)? Prolonged turn fight?
- Can I outzoom it with equal energy state?
- Can I outdive it?

I usually take 25% or 50% fuel, because full fuel load for P-51D impacts Mustangs performance, and besides I mostly don't wanna fly & fight for hours anyway.

Thanks for any input .

Fly higher than ~6000m and you'll have the aces in your hand.

However, lower I'd remember following differences:
-P51D has better zoom climb, but worse continued (110%+WEP)
-with 25% fuel (maybe too with 50%) P51D turns a little bit better

-D9 accelerates better
-D9 rolls better at slow/medium speeds, high speed rolling about the same

Overall, they're (D9 vs P51D) pretty closely matched in an even dogfight at
medium altitude. At low D9 may have some advantage (speed, acc.), at high up 51 rules

Given the weapons/DMs of the containers, P51 has a glass jaw but D9 looses all
the speed from hits to the wings. Also, .50s are good for disabling controls so..
it's quite ok on this too. D9 is better for quick kills, but 51s can disable
the D9s too.

Turn wise the P-51 should have the FW190D-9 in most situations. High speed turns are going to be similar but the P-51 seems to have the advantage as the speeds decrease...particularly closer to the stall with combat flaps out (FW190s seem to benefit very little from combat flaps...I almost never use them).

D-9 is going to hold advantages in being able to rapidly execute rolls and any maneuvers requiring a roll while the P-51Ds roll rate is only competitive at higher speeds.

P-51 should be generally faster once you're at a medium altitude.

Its a really solid match between these two. The differences are small and pilot skill/positioning really decides the battle.

I don't know if it helps but historically American pilots noted the D-9 was the best German fighter they encountered. Pretty much everything else has been cited as variously inferior to the P-51 (one hell of a plane). The D-9 they said was en par.

A friend and I joined up online a few months back to test out the 2 aircraft in a number of trials, we switched aircraft and redid the tests. I must say that we were a bit different in terms of pilot experience and I was able to greatly gain altitude and distance no matter what aircraft I was in, similar results in a turning radius test, but that test was really close. Regardless of the pilots ability, I would agree that these aircraft are a very close match on most flying characteristics, and indeed, it probably comes down to the pilot, as it did in the tests we ran. But in an extended dive and dive into a zoom climb the 51 eeked out a little bit of a lead on both test runs. Still it wasn't that far out and away. Obviously altitude is a factor, problem the biggest factor of them all when comparing the two aircraft. I can easily see someone flying a P-51 D for the allies on an overpopulated server, switching to blue to even the teams out with this 190-D and taking to it like water.

quote:

Originally posted by vanir:
I don't know if it helps but historically American pilots noted the D-9 was the best German fighter they encountered. Pretty much everything else has been cited as variously inferior to the P-51 (one hell of a plane). The D-9 they said was en par.

Me262

Prop Planes not jets [Xiolablu3]P-51 greatest plane of all time it can do it all.

Also P-51 armament is sufficient to disable German fighters, especially Messerschmitt, which in 9 out of 10 attacks (1st pass) are so crippled that they either can't fly long before they crash or are destroyed at spot.
One more big minus for Messer is that it can't escape from P-51 on high speed when being attacked (jumped) by a P-51, while FW-190 still has an option to evade at high speed then dive.
Bf-109 usually gets destroyed in such scenario because of high speed lockup controls.

FW-190 is a different story, to destroy it you need one concentrated burst, but scattered burst all over 190 structure area would do a good job too to put it effectively out of fight.

Also, Mustang Mk.III which I personally regard as best piston in game as it outclasses practically everything on the axis side except Me-262... it is so fast and I have a feeling (more than a feeling TBH) that it is also more maneuverable than a P-51D.

I'm quite confident that Mk.III can outturn every FW-190 type in the game on 25% fuel load.
I'm not sure for P-51D, I don't have much flight time in that aircraft, so it's good to see your experiences .

quote:

Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
High speed turns are going to be similar but the P-51 seems to have the advantage as the speeds decrease...particularly closer to the stall with combat flaps out (FW190s seem to benefit very little from combat flaps...I almost never use them).

Nice to know that... so I can then drop combat flaps to a good use in a right time when in desperate low level dogfight with a FW-190.

Wow... what an experience...
I couldn't outturn the FW-190D in a P-51 (from what appears to be a slightly better initial position) even after I gave it a good burst.

Good thing is I could run... and have some friendlies to help me.
Well... I will join up with some buddies online to really test this stuff (P-51D vs FW-190D in sustained level turn).

Gonna review teh track now .

And yes... 2-3mins after the fight I ran out of fuel, I was on def armament too (I wasn't damaged at all) .

I must agree that the Mustang III is the best P-51 in the game.

It is in fact so good, you hardly feel the reduced armament.

One well aimed burst will set a Bf-109 on fire.

quote:

Originally posted by DKoor:
Wow... what an experience...
I couldn't outturn the FW-190D in a P-51 (from what appears to be a slightly better initial position) even after I gave it a good burst.

Good thing is I could run... and have some friendlies to help me.
Well... I will join up with some buddies online to really test this stuff (P-51D vs FW-190D in sustained level turn).

Gonna review teh track now .

Hrrmmm you should be able to out turn a 190D-9 I think. It'll be very close...if your opponent was good then that may make the difference. Also lag/lead pursuit position can make it look like he's out turning you depending on how closely you follow him. The combat flaps should have helped too...but both of you have to keep your speed up and if you get into a turn fight where speeds have dropped and you both need to make more speed quickly...the D-9 is going to do better with more power on tap.

quote:

Originally posted by Metatron_123:
I must agree that the Mustang III is the best P-51 in the game.

It is in fact so good, you hardly feel the reduced armament.

One well aimed burst will set a Bf-109 on fire.

Poor Bf-109's!

Now I see that I haven't whined not one tiny bit ever about them...

They are inferior in-game in just about everything to a FW-190... after one P-51 pass @ unaware 109 I'm pretty sure in 9/10 cases that he'll end up in dirt.

And that cannot be said at all for FW-190... thing is quite resistant to 50cal unless you converge it. The best thing to aim at FW are wings. And in deflection - engine.

With 109 I get flames, cut of fuselage, controls disabled etc. etc. but with 190 I get.... fuel leak .

quote:

Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

quote:

Originally posted by DKoor:
Wow... what an experience...
I couldn't outturn the FW-190D in a P-51 (from what appears to be a slightly better initial position) even after I gave it a good burst.

Good thing is I could run... and have some friendlies to help me.
Well... I will join up with some buddies online to really test this stuff (P-51D vs FW-190D in sustained level turn).

Gonna review teh track now .

Hrrmmm you should be able to out turn a 190D-9 I think. It'll be very close...if your opponent was good then that may make the difference. Also lag/lead pursuit position can make it look like he's out turning you depending on how closely you follow him. The combat flaps should have helped too...but both of you have to keep your speed up and if you get into a turn fight where speeds have dropped and you both need to make more speed quickly...the D-9 is going to do better with more power on tap.

TBH Ice, I haven't waited for long in that turnfight; from what seemed to looks like a position where he gained some space on me I disengaged!

Because I have quite a lot experience in such cases; if you don't disengage at time usually you wont live long ; if you disengage at time you just may live long enough to receive some help (considering planes involved)... because I bet that FW, which received some bullets from me moments earlier is still faster @ deck than my P-51 on fumes... and I don't even want to calculate his better acceleration...

Yeah I'm jinxed that much .

FW DM is ancient, crude and overblown.

Kind of describes several forum members.

DKoor, for some reason I still prefer Bf-109s to Fw-190s most of the time. Very good power to weight ratio, climbrate =

I do agree that the Fw-190 will bring it's pilot home more intact though...

When going at eachother in a close turnfight this two planes are a bit different at slower speed. The Pony will "float on flaps" better and the D9 will "hang in the prop" better. Is alays a good fight between this two.

quote:

Originally posted by Metatron_123:
DKoor, for some reason I still prefer Bf-109s to Fw-190s most of the time. Very good power to weight ratio, climbrate =

I do agree that the Fw-190 will bring it's pilot home more intact though...

I feel 100% the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaws2002:
When going at eachother in a close turnfight this two planes are a bit different at slower speed. The Pony will "float on flaps" better and the D9 will "hang in the prop" better. Is alays a good fight between this two.

Yeah IIRC I remember him doing that prop thing a lot, and also pointing his nose low afterwards - rinse and repeat... while I pumped the elevator trim and engaged combat flaps (I remembered Ice's words ) .