quote:

Originally posted by DreamMarine:
The key point is really the realism - and I mean here the realism with hostage situations, not with war situations.

And therefore I am against the cover system as it is. I won't repeat some really good remarks in this thread done before.

Just one point: The cover system should primarly be for stealth purposes, NOT for large scaled shootouts.

You know that there's something wrong in a tactical shooter when there's a major feature in that makes large shoot-outs easier.

in rea life i think some of these people would fall over if they pulled off leans like this.

quote:

Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
Against. When you stack up behind cover, you don't put your back to the wall. You are a sitting duck with your back leaning against the wall with very limited mobility.

That's just it. A cover system doesn't have to mean putting your back to anything. If you stand to the side of a doorway and lean out to shoot, you're using cover. Stand behind a column and lean out---that's using cover. Make a cover system that's just a shortcut to lean. If at a wall, it could just mean a control to have the guy stick close to the wall, column etc., move down the wall as directed and then move the stick while in cover and lean out. Why does it have to mean his back to the wall? He could be at a 45-90˚ angle more with his shoulder to the wall. Then just lean out at the doorframe to shoot, not having to expose his whole body the way it is now.

On the console games, using the d pad for lean was just not the best way to go. Combining the left trigger for "cover" and moving the usual stick over would be much nicer.
...and when in an open environment, have that same left trigger bring the gun up to the firing position like in AA and COD.

i like the cover system but i agree that being able to see so much while taking cover is a bit unfair. player shouldn't be able to see past the wall when in cover but be able to lean out but sacrifice a bit of his/her head being exposed while doing so. one of the things i like about the cover system is the blind fire. knowing that a player or terrorist is coming through a door and they don't notice me and i just reach around and spray them dead

i love the cover system and now with bullet penertration it will be 10 times better...

but thats just my opinion

quote:

Originally posted by AntiPersonnel:

quote:

Originally posted by Iceking55555:
The other Metallica fans go and buy Saint Anger and think it`s the bees knees.

i have no problem with that. i am sure its a good listen, but from the songs i have heard, it is a far departure from the sheer intensity that put metallica on the map (my opinion of course).

the same exact way i feel about the "new rainbow". its a fun game for sure, but in no way does it feel like a rainbow six game.

I would have to say their best albums are "kill em all" up to "and justice for all". Although apparently their new album is supposed to be a throwback to the good old days. In my opinion, they sold out to make more money and bring in a larger audience. Which is just what we see with R6.

actually, shame on me... i forgot to include And Justice For All into the classics. that number should be 4 albums, not the 3 i stated. the 2 you mentioned are definitely awesome, but Master of Puppets (GOAT) and Ride the Lightning would be my tops.


there are plenty of bands that have sold out to larger audiences, but NOT by significantly dumbing their music down or changing the style. they kept their integrity intact while garnering a larger demographic.

even a band as "hardcore" and abrasive as Slayer has stayed true since its inception.

and you notice how a lot of these sell-out bands like metallica are now suddenly "reverting back to days of old?"

seems like the change wasnt such a good idea in the first place, and by reverting back its only reinforcing the lack of integrity and poor choice they made to begin with. Metallica was an extremely talented band and they pioneered the concept of Thrash Metal. again, an allusion to R6, back then Thrash Metal was a refreshing alternative to the really lame "Glam Rock" or "Hair Metal" that was dominating in the scene in the 80s. Thrash was a brutal "no-frills" pure form of metal that didnt rely on make-up and tight spandex to sell records.

there is no doubt in my mind that if Metallica had stayed true to its roots, their talent alone could have still projected the band into the mainstream with success. even with the loss of cliff burton, i think jason newstead was still a decent bassist.

i think these kinds of things are no different in any industry. be it music, fashion or video games.


INTEGRITY NEVER GOES OUT OF STYLE.

Back on topic please.

quote:

Originally posted by AntiPersonnel:
actually, shame on me... i forgot to include And Justice For All into the classics. that number should be 4 albums, not the 3 i stated. the 2 you mentioned are definitely awesome, but Master of Puppets (GOAT) and Ride the Lightning would be my tops.

I wasn't saying that those were their best albums neccesarily. As my favorites would be master of puppets and kill em all. I was just saing that those albums and what came in between were their best.

Anyways, to get this back on topic. I am against the cover system as it is currently. That does not mean that I am against any form of cover system. I would be happy with a good cover system. In my opinion this would be in fp and your back would not be against the wall. As stated above, I wouldn't mind a cover system of this type even if it was merely a glorified lean. In a game like this, the question the devs ask themselves when adding a new gameplay device should be: Does this encourage realisitc gameplay? If so, than add it in. I would be more than happy with a cover system that encouraged realistic tactics. Hoever, I have yet to see any thing close to such a system. I don't really know how such a cover system could be implemented without causing a game breaking problem and being significantly better than the lean. If such a system could be implemented than I would be fine with it. So, I don't oppose all cover systems. I'm just in opposition to cover systems as they are now.

The TPCS needs to be *REMOVED*.
How can you play a good match and play tactically if you moving up the hall or street if you don't have the element of surprise if the opposing team can see you movement and position with out ever peeking out of cover. it's like a hack in some ways. bring back the lean please.

quote:

Originally posted by PANICIN:
The TPCS needs to be *REMOVED*.
How can you play a good match and play tactically if you moving up the hall or street if you don't have the element of surprise if the opposing team can see you movement and position with out ever peeking out of cover. it's like a hack in some ways. bring back the lean please.

I've been thinking that most of the new stuff they add to new games are all what we use to think of as hacks.

Uavs (Interface mod).

cod4 Airstrike (Kill anyone with exploding c4 without laying it) I only saw this hack used once on raven shield and god knows how he did it but he managed to kill our whole team using demo packs 30sec into the round).

Cod4 choppers (samething as above)

Bullet pen (shooting through wall used to be cheating. My personal view is that it takes away the skill from first person shooters.

lockdowns see through walls motion senser or whatever that was. (wallhack)

Also alot of new games seem to use autoaim. Maybe I'm seeing things but i'm pretty sure the recoil on guns is random and shouldn't line you up with the target. Maybe i'm seeing things but aiming while shooting seems to be too easy.

Third person view (same)

rant -
Perks / pecs / ranks / new weapons. I hates these. The most fun i have in any mp game is when it first releases and everyone has the same rubbish weapons. There's no nade spaming, no grenade launchers, no rocket launchers, no over powered sniper rifles. It seems far more skill based and far less run n gun spam fest.

lean>cover

Nuff said.

The lean does not equal third person cover system, it takes the element of surprise away.
There's no sneaking up on your enemy while they're snug behind their cover.
The *RADAR* definitely needs to be burned! you can see everything with that damn thing.
What the hell happened?!

Where did the R6 series go? what happened to it?
I read on these forums somewhere of a post and the person said R6:V is not a R6 game, it may have the R6 on the cover but it's not a R6 game. And he's right.
That game feels like a bubble gum game, it is an arcade game. W0W!
When will they make a real R6? i might have to rethink my pre-order.
They developed this game for little kids under 15, i don't even know if the series can salvaged
it has fallen so far it can't see the light of day.
The R6 series is moving backwards, what a shame this is not what i would have imagined would become of the R6 series since RAINBOW SIX:RAVEN SHIELD/ ATHENA SWORD was sooo incredible.
What made the R6 series so incredible was it's realism and tactics.

I am probably classed as one the old timers to this series, I am most likely 10 – 15 years older than most people on these forums, I have played the entire back catalogue of R6 games and read the book. I am not proclaiming to be THE R6 subject guru but! I have pretty good knowledge on all things with a Special Forces subject matter and I have played a variety of tactical FPS shooters i.e. Ghost Recon, R6, Operation Flash Point, Armed Assault, First to Fight (US Marines tac sim), The Regiment (SAS) and COD4, which if played in hardcore mode rivals R6 and has a feel of Raven Shield mixed with old Ghost Recon.

I never hated Vegas, I enjoyed it but! It is more of a good video game about a CT unit, which hardly resembles old R6 as I remember it. For me the cover system is purely cosmetic and personally I would rather have the view removed, as I prefer a more realistic view when playing.

I am going to buy Vegas 2? Well the jury is out on that one; the new video trailers have put me off! I suppose if there was an optional hardcore mode for adversarial and terrorist hunt this could tempt me to purchase + remove all the BS lame pink camo and sc-fi looking body armour (tactical and military were realistic the rest were not)

SBS

PS after all this game was once the benchmark for tactical realism.

quote:

Hide Post
take it off? why thats the whole point of the game is for the cover sytem i mean its famous for that. If you dont like the cover sytem then go play someting else, but thats preetty stupid why take it off?
Posts: 3 | Registered: Thu June 14 2007

The cover system works pretty well.

I also play Call of Duty 4, and quite frankly, life without cover isn't as much fun. Don't get me wrong - it is a great game, but for the most part, you get people running around erratically in the hopes of hitting the other guy before he can hit you rather than do what realistically must be done in a fire fight (i.e., shoot from cover and use your squad to flush the enemy out).

True, the cover system in Rainbow allows you to target and see around corners... that is not incredibly realistic....although, firing from cover is usually not as accurate to make up for that. But, it beats the alternative.

Again the cover system in vegas let you see the enemy approaching without peeking out from cover.
The lean is far better, they could implement a cover system similar to the*LEAN AND PEEK* being used in KZ2 developed by GG just for KZ2.

Why don't you go play something else, without the current cover system many players would be able to get killz because the lean takes more skill to use, and you have to peek out from cover to see what going on.

The cover system lets you perform like an elite anti-terror unit. I do wish you could lean or just peek around the corner, but this would make the game more complicated. I play 360 and i don't know what buttons they would have to use.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky2005:

quote:

Originally posted by Iceking55555:
These forums really do not represent the typical Rainbow Six fan.

Most of this forum does represent the typical Rainbow Six fan. What it does not represent however, is a typical Vegas fan. Big difference.

SO well put.

Perhaps, the one thing the cover system does improve is teamwork. No longer are you able to run and gun like some ******* b/c you have an XML8 or an MP7. You have to plan your attack, use your team to cover, flank, distract & execute an attack on your enemy. Tactics, that means planning (for u run & gun noob), is just more important.

I do think a fresher cover system is in order, one where the x-ray vision is limited or removed.

The cover system is ****ing terrible!
Bring back the lean