Got the PM and voted for old school r6.

This thread seems to be extaclty like
multiple ones in the GR section

No matter what game series
Ubishaft are pushing out **** that
goes away from real gameplay
and aiming for mass marketed
casual gamers (aka LOW SKILLED
I.D.O.I.TS that find button mashing
easier then using K&M)

Time and time again on the Ubi forum
they get plenty of feed back and
Ubi does NOT listen and keeps releasing
**** blaming PC poor sales on piracy
instead of waking up and realising
that PC older gamers are sick and tired
of bug ridden incompete half featured
games that keep on disapointing players.

Ive said it before if they cant get
better and back to the orignal ones
give up on PC games al together
Let some new companys write decent
non buggy pc only games with 8 to 16
COOP , offering a FREE standalone
dedicated server , ping limiting
and real game features instead of
using a new graphics engine with
**** effects like blur and limiting
colors in the game.

Real tatical games have:
* LISTEN TO OLDER GAMES THAT BOUGHT
and PLAYED EVERY SINGLE GAME
before the new gamers that have NO IDEA
* Third person NOT Supported/REMOVED (FPS only)
* FORCE the user to use Keyboard and mouse
* NO SUPPORT AT ALL FOR joysticks or joypad
* LAN and online coop for EIGHT to 16 players
* No voice chat they will use Mumble/Vent/TS
* Allowing the host (dedicated or retail game)
to turn on and OFF settings eg RESPAWN etc)
* The bad guy AI will not magicly teleport
in front or behind the humans once they
walk over a trigger point
* Tanks and helis shall not slow the game
down
* Allowing humans to control/drive vechiles
and aircraft JUST like the bad guy AI can
* Allowing humans to control/use weapons
like the ground mounted machine guns
just like the CPU bad guys can .
* offer the beta to the public to beta test
if a beta tester does not give feedback
the copy of beta test will be disabled
on their machine

With Ubi
they should split the R6 and GR series in two
or make two new series

one for noobs, limited players , joypad support

one for PC only gamers that played GR1 (PC)
and played R6 1 (PC)

I have to agree, R6 part 1 (1998)was the best.
Our clan excist from Rainbowsix 1 (Mplayer, MSN Gamingzone, Gamespy)
We played the first part till like 6 a 7 month ago, then it really died.
Not because of the game, but because of the cheaters and bad league`s.
We`ve played all parts of the game, including Takedown (on a hard way)
We will be playing Rainbowsix Vegas2 also on the PC, but it aint Rainbowsix 1.
And i know for a fact, if all those Old School players from part 1 would vote here, some peeps will be in shock.
We also still play Raven Shield, it`s more active as Vegas.
If there would be good patches,more maps, a Gaming Lobby, and people would listen more to the (PC)Players Vegas2 can become big again.
But keep Rainbowsix as Rainbowsix!!!!

ok i agree but why only pc:S come on...

Hey man! Team GSG9 since 1999! Few clans last for as long as ours have.

Good old times...

you know whats funny, when i found this thread, it reminded me of when i used to go to my friends house to play rs black arrow on the xbox. Whats funnier, i think the graphics havent changed much lol. There all great games and i cant play too much run and gun or my eyes explode!

The worst part about it is, I remember them promised to take R6 back to it's roots after the disaster that was Lockdown.

Its not that "arcade" styled, but its slowly becoming more like it over time... I think eventually it will be destroyed, because R6 just cant BE an arcade shooter.

But if they added a little more realism I would cry in joy. Its just the slow pace I love, like Gears Of War. I cant take running around like a jackass in COD or Halo.

Where's the fourth option? I like every installment in the series except Lockdown for the things it does right. Now I completely agree that the singleplayer in Raven Shield was much better, but personally I also think that the multiplayer has improved a lot over the years.

Yes. Admittedly my first R6 games were the Gameboy version and Black Arrow on Xbox, but even I miss the slower and more tactical gameplay. Vegas is fun, but I started playing R6 for the tactical aspect.

Do any of the older R6 games on PC still have a good online community? I've been thinking about giving those a try.

Yeah, I miss "old" RainbowSix. Nuff said.

I really like Vegas 2, but I miss Vegas 1's T Hunt. That was playable. Vegas 2 T Hunt is ridiculous. Fix that horrible spawning issue once and for all.

RSV and RSV2 are too unrealistic, especially the third-person cover system.

quote:

Originally posted by snoopyau:
This thread seems to be extaclty like
multiple ones in the GR section

No matter what game series
Ubishaft are pushing out **** that
goes away from real gameplay
and aiming for mass marketed
casual gamers (aka LOW SKILLED
I.D.O.I.TS that find button mashing
easier then using K&M)

Time and time again on the Ubi forum
they get plenty of feed back and
Ubi does NOT listen and keeps releasing
**** blaming PC poor sales on piracy
instead of waking up and realising
that PC older gamers are sick and tired
of bug ridden incompete half featured
games that keep on disapointing players.

Ive said it before if they cant get
better and back to the orignal ones
give up on PC games al together
Let some new companys write decent
non buggy pc only games with 8 to 16
COOP , offering a FREE standalone
dedicated server , ping limiting
and real game features instead of
using a new graphics engine with
**** effects like blur and limiting
colors in the game.

Real tatical games have:
* LISTEN TO OLDER GAMES THAT BOUGHT
and PLAYED EVERY SINGLE GAME
before the new gamers that have NO IDEA
* Third person NOT Supported/REMOVED (FPS only)
* FORCE the user to use Keyboard and mouse
* NO SUPPORT AT ALL FOR joysticks or joypad
* LAN and online coop for EIGHT to 16 players
* No voice chat they will use Mumble/Vent/TS
* Allowing the host (dedicated or retail game)
to turn on and OFF settings eg RESPAWN etc)
* The bad guy AI will not magicly teleport
in front or behind the humans once they
walk over a trigger point
* Tanks and helis shall not slow the game
down
* Allowing humans to control/drive vechiles
and aircraft JUST like the bad guy AI can
* Allowing humans to control/use weapons
like the ground mounted machine guns
just like the CPU bad guys can .
* offer the beta to the public to beta test
if a beta tester does not give feedback
the copy of beta test will be disabled
on their machine

With Ubi
they should split the R6 and GR series in two
or make two new series

one for noobs, limited players , joypad support

one for PC only gamers that played GR1 (PC)
and played R6 1 (PC)

Now now, there is no need for elitist PC bull. Some console players want what PC players want. I have played R6 back in 1999, but I prefer a console and joypad (I do not find one to be superior to the other, but I do play better with a joypad). And whats more, I wish that there was a proper tactical shooter for console.

You can read in this thread about t hunt spawning how much the game concept is flawed now. This is not the only proof, but one of my favorites since the in-game spawning and rushing of the tangos against you are my biggest problems with Vegas.

The whole discussion about the R6 game concept is pretty much chaotic and distorted by now, since the game concept has collapsed with some of the later game descisions. One bad gameplay descision has led to another one. It's like a runway street.

Examples:

1) UBI descided to introduce respawning in MP, because people got frustrated when they died soon in MP matches and had to wait a lot. This frustration was particularly high for beginners or casual players.

But this was the first step towards loosing the taste of tactics, since MP was now only about shooting around, getting killed and being thrown into the action again by respawn. Oh, and of course: Spawn camping. You might discuss if spawn camping is about tactics or not. It might actually be tactical, but it's not that kind of tactics you would look for in a tactical CQC shooter like the original games.

As a result, UBI had to introduce random spawns now which makes the MP games even more untactical (in a CQC sense), since now enemies can spawn everywhere - even in your back which you have just cleared.


You could have solved this "frustration problem" in another way:

My favorite is still to introduce a system where you protect people of less skill from veteran MP players which used to slaugther the beginners. Set up servers for different "ranks". Different MP games have a limit for maximal ranks. So beginners can play against each other until they rise in rank and skills and are ready to compete against more dangerous MP gamers.

I don't know any sports game where players with entirely different skills compete against each other. It wouldn't be any fun either. Imagine a tennis tournament where you as a beginner have to play against tennis profs in the first rounds. You would end in the first round every time again and have to wait for the next tournament. That would frustrate every beginner in tennis, and he wouldn't gain practise, too, since he always plays just one match.

You get my idea?


2) UBI has introduced heavy scripting, trip wires, linear gameplay, health regeneration and the sudden appearance of a bulk of tangos in story mode. That led to some consequences, too:

Since you can go to cover to regenerate your health after some seconds, they had to increase the numbers and abilities of the tangos. While unpredictability of the situations and tangos behaviour was a key concept in the old R6 games, now you have to retry a section of the SP campaign several times until you know when and where the tangos spawn. It's actually a trial-and-error process until you figure out how you have to deal with this section. But you won't prove your tactical CQC skills very much, but you will learn to deal with the scripts. The procedure you developed in one section usually won't work in the next one.


Again, all those gameplay decisions were steps in the wrong direction.

YES, the older R6 games COULD get frustrating from time to time. But you could learn to stay in control of different typical CQC situations. Everything you learned was applicable in later missions and partly in MP gameplay:

- How do I probably clear different layouts of buildings?

- How do I approach the stronghold without getting noticed?

- How do I react if they still notice me to soon and alert their buddys?

- How do I approach an open place from different directions?

- How do I deploy properly a sniper for support and intelligence and where are good places to place them?

For all those decisions you had usually enough time to think them through. If you made an error, you could start the mission again with new random tango positions and new tactical plans. You really had the feeling that you learned something in every mission what you could use for later missions.

All this is gone. Now you get conditioned like pavlov rats to try a section of SP again and again until you manage the artificial scripted setting by figuring out when and where the tangos will spawn.


3) But my favorite example is still the tango hunt which is entirely unattracting for me by now.

Tangos spawn in groups and rush for you, even if they haven't seen or heard you. While it should be YOU who hunts the tangos, it's acutally the other way around: THEY HUNT YOU!

It's funny (or sad) how some people use the fact that the tangos are rushing towards you as an arguement for in-game spawning. They say: "Look, it just won't work if all tangos spawn in the beginning, since then all 30 or more tangos would come after you." Ridiculous!!! We have to get rid of BOTH of these flaws: In-game spawning AND unrealistic rushing towards you.

Ok, the behaviour of the tangos in the old games wasn't perfect, either. They were a little bit passive. On the other hand they were unrealistic fast and deadly sometimes.

The key to all those tango hunt problems (those of the original games and of Vegas) is just as much realism and plausibility as possible. Introduce plausible human reactions including proper reactions times. Let some of them guard some areas, while others go on patrol. Some might even run away or surrender. Introduce a believable system when and how tangos would notice your presence.


Ok, I will stop here. The post is already long enough. But I hope you got my point!

quote:

Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
Hey man! Team GSG9 since 1999! Few clans last for as long as ours have.

yeah..think i saw your clan in Raven Shield..German? Or am i mistaken

@DreamMarine

Can't say it much better - Good Post

pointless thread is pointless.

it's just an excuse for the fans of the old R6 fans to get nostalgic.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemecyst:
pointless thread is pointless.

it's just an excuse for the fans of the old R6 fans to get nostalgic.

I don't know, I write here in the hopes of Ubi actually doing something. You may be right though, they probably don't read this anyway.