i posted this in another thread, but that thread was about something else, and in order to have a discussion that is on topic with the post title i made this one (and deleted the posts in the other thread).

id like to know what you think of this, since it seems rather apparent to me, the cover glitch is still intact for vegas 2.


here is the video footage in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJRoDuupDs

17 seconds in you see the guy taking side cover on a box that protrudes from the wall, looks like this:



in this screenshot you can clearly see how this player is unknowingly using the famous "coke machine glitch"

it happens when you take side cover on an object that protrudes from a wall and your crosshair appears to the open side of the corner and due to the skewed 3rd person perspective, from your "camera" it seems like you can shoot the target, but from the target's point of view, you are firing through the wall.


look at the position of the crosshair in relation to where his body is loacted. the crosshair points at a potential target that is behind that wall.

the perspective you are looking at it is skewed since you are thinking in terms of 1st person in your mind (as is the function in-game), but your character is actually in 3rd person. this is why the majority of gamers who commit the "cover glitch" (like the guy in the video) doesnt even know that they did it.


trust me i've played millions of hours of Vegas to know the cover glitch inside out.

the only way i could get confirmation if they fixed it or not, is if he did actually shoot and the bullet made a hole in the wall here:




in vegas 1, however, due to the "optical illusion" of the 3rd person switch it worked more like this:



which is wrong. from the player side, it looks like his bullet SHOULD go where the crosshair is pointing because of unintentional xray vision.

but in reality from the enemy point of view, the player is hidden behind the entire corner and his bullets magically shoot through it.



even if they fixed the glitch, and even with the implementation of shoot-thru-cover, the player in the "glitch" is still in a better position because he is able to see 100% while hidden from the enemy with no need to pop out of cover. the worst part about this is 90% of people who do this wont even know its a glitch.


i.e. even though both can shoot each other, the player can completely see and scope in on the enemy while completely hidden behind a wall, but the enemy cannot see or aim at the player AT ALL.


IMO this isnt fixed. it is still broken



here is an even simpler breakdown of why the 3rd person cover system is BROKEN



the above diagram is a rough general idea of what you would see in the screen cap from a top view.


obviously the solid black dot on the bottom represents the player in the picture, and the black dot on top is a hypothetical enemy at the players crosshair.

the red cones represent the field of view that each player sees.

note that the enemy is in 1st person, so his line of fire and line of sight are one in the same.

note that the player is in 3rd person so that his ACTUAL line of fire differs from his "out of body" or "xray vision" field of view shown as the "shadow" grey dot.

the solid blue line represents the line of view of the player.

the solid red line represents the line of fire shared by both player and enemy.

not that the player is CLEARLY blocked by the corner of the wall, neither the player or the enemy should be able to see or shoot at one another without the bullets hitting the wall.


in vegas 1, the game mechanic worked in FIRST PERSON, so that the "hit detection" registered according to what the CAMERA sees. since the player is having an out of body experience, his camera shows a clear line of sight toward the enemy, therefore the game engine "thinks" that the player is able to fire upon the enemy along the BLUE line. which is clearly IMPOSSIBLE in reality. but in Vegas 1, the player is able to fire AND SEE CLEARLY through the entire corner of the wall and the enemy just sees a ghost of bullets emerging from a wall followed by a mysterious death.



i made a suggestion of how i think the 3rd person cover system could be greatly improved to avoid these kinds of things here:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1991064316/m/7331039926

i hope that this is of some use to developers

ugh, only makes sense this wouldn't be fixed. our only hope really is if somehow they made the bullet trajectory actually come from the gun barrel, not the camera POV. Hopefully bullet pen. and destroyable cover will help, but i wouldn't count on it .

quote:

Originally posted by Carbon15k:
ugh, only makes sense this wouldn't be fixed. our only hope really is if somehow they made the bullet trajectory actually come from the gun barrel, not the camera POV. Hopefully bullet pen. and destroyable cover will help, but i wouldn't count on it .

another problem which i wont get into here is that in VEGAS 1, the "shoulder glitch" would happen because of the fact that EVEN IN FIRST PERSON, the bullet does not come out of the gun model, it comes from somehwere within the players body, so that the persoective of the "bullet" doesnt match up with the perspective of the player.


this was a problem when some people would pie a corner (without using the cover system) and the bullet would shoot from a location while the persons gun (and the majority of his body) is not even visible.

this also happens in COD4, but not horizontally, vertically. when the enemy is crouching and shooting behind a wall that is just barely high enough to look over, but the player sees bullets coming from a wall that has only an inch of the top of the players head.


regardless, with bullet penetration, this issue is not nearly as important because you can shoot back at them through the wall.


but vegas 3rd person glitch is different in that the enemy is totally hidden behind the wall and is shooting you through it with 100% unobstructed field of view, and the fact that his bullets dont accrue any "penetration" damage penalty, whereas if you fire back at him through the wall, your bullets would not inflict as much damage because it physically has to penetrate it, let alone the fact that you cant see his exact location to begin with.

Personnel, u,ve talkn many times about this, but i have to say a never had issues with it, cause u have to consider that people are luring at u all the time and can shoot u from everywhere. Whetter somebody is glitching or not, it doesn't really matter. People who abuse whatever glitch suck anyway. Most people dont shoot u from an unlogical point and if they do they stop cause they know its not cool. And like i said; people who cheat suck anyway. Cause all they do is focusing on cheating so it becomes predictable and people get aware of this cheat very quickly so they are more on their toes for it therefore the cheater will stop it simply because its not paying.

Well, thats my pov. But as i said, i basicly never experienced it except on streets behind that large crate in hallway near the ladder... lol. WTF! thats cheating i thought. But since i noticed it, i took it in account and it never happened again. Ha,ha. I used it myself a couple a times! Well, 2 times maybe... 3?

its a big problem when you need to get through a choke point, like both long hallways on either alpha or bravo spawn in Casino Vault.

youve never been picked off from the infamous bravo spawn "LVU window"?

or what about both catwalks on lvu campus, you can cover glitch any of the potted plants along the sides.

I dont play open maps dude. They kill me anyway no matter what. God i hate that... But in a team u could still consider it... no?

Couldnt u work around it in other maps?

of course theres always a way around it or just to avoid going there, but you shouldnt have to.

if it can be fixed why doesnt it?

i think the answer is that the way the dev designed the system, this just cant be fixed because it was poorly designed that way to begin with.



like if you worked at Starbuck's and always had to clean up after one particular guy who leaves the espresso machine a mess. i mean of course, you could just clean it up yourself, but should you really have to do it? shouldnt the guy clean up after his own mess?

but then again what if he was a mentally handicapped person and he just cant help it. thats how i feel about vegas sometimes.

Just some sloppy work.

quote:

Just some sloppy work.

Back it up...

To personnel: yeah, well. I think its a huge difference if u play in a organized team or clan or just with randoms. If u play with randoms you shouldnt take it serious anyway so u dont bother. If u play in "clan" u should overcome it.

I always look at it this way; everybody has to deal with it. Not just u. No game is perfect...
Not even a perfect game... evolution.........................................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by Muhad:
Just some sloppy work.

...Ubisoft has made more games than I have, and they've certainly made more money making games than I have.

And while the addage is "All good programmers are lazy," it may just be one of those freak things that got cranked out when they were making it.

Perhaps, if they fix it, it would cause something even worse?

I have nightmares about trying to break out of LVU campus and getting Window'd, or getting killed in a Long Hallway assualt. It was something of a pain, but it was oh-so sweet to kill that person doing it.

If they play cheap frag them

quote:

Originally posted by Red_Bacon:

quote:

Just some sloppy work.

Back it up...

To personnel: yeah, well. I think its a huge difference if u play in a organized team or clan or just with randoms. If u play with randoms you shouldnt take it serious anyway so u dont bother. If u play in "clan" u should overcome it.

I always look at it this way; everybody has to deal with it. Not just u. No game is perfect...
Not even a perfect game... evolution.........................................................................................

Evolution? A glitch that was in Vegas 1 remains unchanged in Vegas 2?

Anyway, there is still no solid proof that it's in Vegas 2... but this is Ubisoft we're talking about...

don't really matter much now, Just shoot the ******* through the wall, because you could only do it when you hide behind things that you should never take cover behind. Example: Small plywood crates, drywall, thin wall at 90 degree angles, and stupid stuff like that. Hell, they can knock themselves out, they will go down ever time now. Take cover behind something real like big metal things or solid walls, then try to shoot me.

you dont see the player shoot through the wall from that position so maybe it was fixed but this slightly worries me if it wasnt

yeah, that glitch really hurts the game

These people suck, they think it makes no difference. They think you should overcome. Sounds like they don't play.

These pictures look like the same old messed up glitches from Vegas 1.

The development team said they would fix this, they said if some glitches made it into the game it would be fixed later.

I'm worried that the development team doesn't play their own game enough. Sounds like when they do play their own games, they treat it like part of their job. You can't be passionate about a "TOM CLANCY" game, when its your job that takes up all your "PRECIOUS TIME".

UBISOFT should learn how to play video games. The game play videos were probably the best performances they could muster out of the testing team. They were lousy players.

UBISOFT needs a new design team, a team with imagination, intelligence, and passion for cold blooded combat. I think they need to pay me and AntiPersonnel to fix the franchise.

The glitch was avoidable. A good flashbang followed by a nade fixed the problem. When fewer people played RB:6 Vegas I got killed by the glitch spots less and less. At that time, most of the players were veterans, and honorable about their kills.

I'm a veteran that is honorable about my kills. I still have to confront the glitchers through conversation. When the game first came out we would ask them to stop, when they didn't stop we would kick them out. Now that fewer and fewer people are playing VEGAS, I have to put up with the glitches until more people join before I go to kicking glitchers. When I do kick someone for gliching the rest of the people might leave for being afraid they will be next, lots of these people don't know all the glitches and completely deny they were using one.

As soon as I kick a glitcher, everyone is prone to leave and room becomes dead. Do you know how long it takes to get a room going when none of your friends are playing Vegas?

I haven't played Vegas in the last month or so (my disc broke), so at the time I stopped there was enough activity to not have to worry about a room becoming 'dead'. I can see how that could be an enormous problem. Why do you have to host though? There's plenty of good hosts out there with friends in there rooms (or there was).

quote:

When I do kick someone for gliching the rest of the people might leave for being afraid they will be next, lots of these people don't know all the glitches and completely deny they were using one.

see i think this is the biggest problem with the cover glitch, is that it is caused by the game being broken, not always the player doing it intentionally.

see the guy in the test viseo doesnt even know hes doing it. if he had stayed there on that side box and fired into the room, he would have "glitch killed" the guy on the 2nd floor. he would never have even known he did it unless the guy he killed complained about it afterward.

a lot of people do this in the game without knowing they do it, especially on the LVU window unless they are told about it. otherwise you cant tell because it looks normal from the player screen.

the cover system is BROKEN through and through.

you just cant mix 3rd person into a 1st person game if the player's angle of view is changed as drastically as it is in vegas. if you have to do 3rd person, try to keep the player "camera" as close to the natural line of sight as possible.

i.e. have the camera pull back BEHIND the player, and not off to the side. this should help with some of the major problems