quote:

Originally posted by DreamMarine:
By the way: Did I mention that a lot of MP expert players are a miserable failure at SP and COOP?

Really? Like who? I been playing online since 99, never ran into that.
Id say making the training more intense would make better players and the Noobs wont get slaugthered as bad.
Most people leave Coop cause the storlines are boring, and the enemy ai aint near as challenging as fighting thinking people.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Yen Lo,

quote:

Originally posted by DreamMarine:
By the way: Did I mention that a lot of MP expert players are a miserable failure at SP and COOP?

I thought I was the exception, rather than the rule.

well.. there are 2 sort of fps onlinegames:
+ funshooter ala ut/bf
+ thinking man shooter aka rs

i got my rvs copy 1/2 year after it was out.. gues what. i got killed and killed and killed...

but i liked the gameplay, so it didnt matter much. day by day i got better and in the end i was in a good clan and under top 5 in ESL europe.

the point is: not every game suits everyone!

the next point is: funshooter exist to douzends, thinkin mans shooter.. hmm. rs and swat, thats about it.

I stopped right after the first line of your post.

I don't want any "new audience" in Rainbow Six. I want Rainbow Six, and Rainbow Six fans. That's why you are seeing a lot of veterans post here.

quote:

Originally posted by Vert22110:
I stopped right after the first line of your post.

I don't want any "new audience" in Rainbow Six. I want Rainbow Six, and Rainbow Six fans. That's why you are seeing a lot of veterans post here.

Well, I leave it to everybody else to comment this on his/her own...

quote:

Originally posted by d4v:
but i liked the gameplay, so it didnt matter much. day by day i got better and in the end i was in a good clan and under top 5 in ESL europe.

May I sincerely ask you how much time did you spend on this?



Aside from this - to all "noob"-callers:

From wikipdia: "... 'Newb' is not necessarily an insulting word, but 'noob' usually is. "


DreamMarine

Just have to say that i'm glad your not advocating dumming the game down

But I will say again, that joining a clan can help enormously!! I was once a "newb" who was taken in by a "clan".. and i'll also add that I still suck at these games.. I only play casually.

Find the right type of group and it makes it incredibly fun. get on voice comms.. it's makes it incredible.

I know you said this is basically the answer you have always gotten, but I really do believe it is a good answer..

btw.. even just playing with a clan on a regular basis makes for more fun even if you don't "join" them.

speaking of which (I know.. I should have just edited) but adding in a "team" management type system into the game probably couldn't hurt. even just "friends" management. make it easier to join friends games from within the game.

quote:

Originally posted by doubleTAP5.56mm:

quote:

)5. Newbies just have to accept the game as it is

Keep on thinking that way, and R6 will not draw in very much of "new audiences"!

Screw 'em. What he hell is the logic in changing the game that attracted (and kept) people who like this type of game in the first place? If you don't like R6 for what it is, then maybe this aint your kind of sht!
Falcon 4 and the Jane's fighter sims are not for everyone, realistic racing sims are not for everyone, SWAT isn't for everyone..... and R6 isn't for everyone.

And BTW, people keep refering to the "hardcore" R6 fans; I mean like we're freaks or something. "Hardcore" R6 fans are just R6 fans period.
If you don't like R6 the way it is, that doesn't make YOU a "normal" fan, and ME a "hardcore" fan. It makes ME a normal R6 fan, and YOU are a shooter fan who wants to play in the R6 world, but not actually play R6.

Maybe you should have read my posts a little bit more in detail!

But thanks for your opinion anyway.

Sorry DM, first of all I took that paragraph the wrong way because I did in fact fail to read your entire post (that #5 jumped right out at me!) Oh yeah, when I used the word "you", I didn't mean YOU, lol. I meant people who advocate #5 the way I mistakenly took it.
D*mn that post kicked *ss too, I'll have to copy/save it for the right thread, lol!

quote:

By the way: Did I mention that a lot of MP expert players are a miserable failure at SP and COOP?

Very true. And I think it's because most "experts" are not experts as far as CT tactics and team movement, but are merely video game "experts" using video game tactics and not RW tactics.

quote:

Originally posted by DreamMarine:
I really don't think that respawn would be a solution in any way! It would really take away the tactics from R6. I don't want to see respawn in R6!

That is one reason why I opened this thread. People who vote for respawn do this, because they want to make R6 more user-friendly for newbies.

But, said again, i believe that respawn is the WRONG approach to the newbie-casual player-problem. Casual players like me don't want to dilute the gameplay of R6 in any way!!!

But we HAVE to find a way to make R6 MP more appealing to newbies and casual players.

There's a difference between newbies and casual players. To me a newbie is someone who lacks skill but understands that R6 is R6, and this is what they want to play.
A casual player (IMO) doesn't want to bother with the technical and realism aspects of R6. You will see these people playing every shooter basically the same exact way.
Sad really.
All R6 fans were noobs at first, but no real R6 fan ever qualified as casual, I don't think. The two concepts (R6 fan / casual) totally conflict.

I definately agree with NO respawns, but if respawns are included at least never get rid of the PROPER no respawn modes.

quote:

All R6 fans were noobs at first, but no real R6 fan ever qualified as casual, I don't think. The two concepts (R6 fan / casual) totally conflict.

Get's my vote for sentence of the week

all of us started as newbee.. got smashed a gazillion time... you play, you improove your skills, you get better and you smash those who just started...
Whanna improove your game play faster? get in a clan and practice with your clammates, learn the trick of the trade...be inquisive not passive...
what ruined rvs popularity was cheaters and ubi not stepping up to the challenge (theats) posed by cheater. we had finally a decent game when most of the pees dropped out tired of seen impossible things happening. Guarantee to new players a fair game and they'll stick to the game, give a good customer support, try to release the game finished without patching it 20 times before it becomes playable. Implement a morelike zone lobby for player to easelly find a server that suit them better.
I really don't buy the "I got allways smashed!! nobody help me!!! see yah" type of aproach...

quote:

Originally posted by doubleTAP5.56mm:
Very true. And I think it's because most "experts" are not experts as far as CT tactics and team movement, but are merely video game "experts" using video game tactics and not RW tactics.

Oh yeah, very good point. Actually, I apprehend it mostly the same way.

There IS a big difference in tactics depending on if you are playing SP or MP. Actually, I am more the SP type of R6 player.

But i would love to play in competition against human players in MP more often. But honestly, I don't have the time to train at least 2 hours a day and at least 5 days a week (as most "expert" seem to - at least, so i was told sometimes).

BTW, thanks for reading the whole thread. I appreciate that very much.

quote:

Originally posted by doubleTAP5.56mm:
There's a difference between newbies and casual players. To me a newbie is someone who lacks skill but understands that R6 is R6, and this is what they want to play.

Well, actually i have never seen this that way before. Interresting point! I will think about this one...

But in which category do i fall, if I played R6 from the start of the series on (mostly SP), love the R6 concept as it is, want to play more in MP against other players... BUT don't have the time to train as much as other players seem to suggest to me?

quote:

Originally posted by KUF_Kazzuto:
what ruined rvs popularity was cheaters and ubi not stepping up to the challenge (theats) posed by cheater. we had finally a decent game when most of the pees dropped out tired of seen impossible things happening. Guarantee to new players a fair game and they'll stick to the game, give a good customer support, try to release the game finished without patching it 20 times before it becomes playable. Implement a morelike zone lobby for player to easelly find a server that suit them better.

Very good point, too! I am very aware, that a lot of "newbie-friendliness" will depend on UBI!!!

okay, i basically didn't read this last page (my contacts are drying up as i type this). but i don't like the idea of restricting "higher rank" people from servers (i am against ranks in general). the only way you are going to learn is to play with people better than you. I do like the idea of having the game server admin tweak his or her game settings they way they want. If i owned a RvS server, then i would restrict the FAMAS, cause i think it's cheap. If newbies played against newbies, you are not learning anything.

If you were completely new to gaming, then you should play SP or COOP to get the basics of moving and shooting. there you could control the gameplay almost completely. you can select the difficulty and stuff like that. if you were that new gaming person, yes, it would be discouraging if you never got to play because you never lived long enough. If you never played a R6 game, then it would be different. you know how to use the mouse and keyboard, you just have to adjust to the individual game. like all games.

quote:

May I sincerely ask you how much time did you spend on this?

bout 1 month to play competitive and onother 2 to play really good. daily that is.

anyway its cool to work your way up... keeps it more challenging. there will always be better players, but hey i like that, so you know you still can do better.

beside that, what me kept playing rvs for nearly 2 years now is the adrenalinshootout this game is still cousing sometimes

Let me explain:

A newb is a newbie (new to the game). All players start out as newbs... The best players were once newbs but of course experience from previous fps's helps.

A noob now is a type of person hehehehe
A person who cannot fathom logic. A person who does stupid things no matter how long they have played. you can often find a noob walking around crouched, with a FAL on single shot in a CQB map, not looking at 'every' possible spot an enemy can appear from. They dont turn around when the team mate they just passed get killed. They slowly walk backwards looking at a frag when it lands on the floor in front of them (some just look at the frag and get brain freeze). They stare at one spot even though an enemy could come from any spot. A noob once again is not necessarily a new player. They are either too scared of dying or just completely 'illogical' (or both).

I am always helpful with new players (advise them on weapons/tactics etc) because i understand that everyone has been there. It is a shame that so many good players are smug and forget that they are only 'good' cos of practise and experience. This is maybe a reason many players dont feel welcome. Some (like i was) dont give a **** and are friendly and chatty. These are the players that will eventually ascend through the ranks.

P.S. I am a pro at co-op and adversarial

Ok i swore in my first post and it hasnt been approved. Let me try and remember it (was up late last night)

Like wikipedia told you, Noob and Newb have two meanings.

Newb is short for newbie (new to something).
Every good player was once a newb. Depending on their real life knowledge of tactics, shooting and combat, a newb can play fairly well. Experience however is priceless. One problem newbs face is the mean, cold response experienced players give them. I myself am always as helpful as i can be with new players (sometimes they latch on, ask me question after question or ask if they can follow me in game but i dont mind this). This attitude people show them is bad for the game. It is not a game full of gimmicks where kiddy mentalities like the look of it so will stay regardless of how they are treated. They have to grow to understand that it is very true to real combat and real tactics are needed. All good players were once newbs but it is only certain mentalities that stay to become good players. If the fact is: 60% of the population are small minded, then give us R6 and them BF2. Do not dumb down our game so they can give it a few goes then buy the new CS or BF2 expansion. If everyone was equally clever, the word would not exist.

Hehehehe... a Noob on the other hand is a type of person... A noob is not necessarily a new player. A noob is a logic lacking mentality. Someone who thinks too much but in all the wrong ways. Someone who no matter how long they play, still play stupidly You can find noobs walking around small maps crouched with a FAL on single shot. A noob doesnt turn around when the team m8 they just passed gets killed behind them. Noobs pay attention to one spot when the enemy could appear from many. Noobs try and shoot with no success from behind a team m8 and kill them 'by accident' ('by stupidity'). Noobs frag from behind team m8s and bounce nades off the back of their heads 'by accident'. If there was no such things as stupid people, the word would not exist. Noobs are just these people! Noobs are easy pickings for good players...
Thanks god for noobs

My advice to newbs: This is not real life where you should feel weak because you were not picked for the football team or the girls in your school dont like you. Dont be silly and rude to players because constantly dying is frustrating. Be humble, keep playing and you will get better. Be friendly and people with have no choice but to respond with friendly attitudes. The new players who compliment good players, talk a lot and ask questions are normally the ones who stay and become good players.

Its hard to be real in a world full of fakes, being real may not bring gold or wealth but it is a satisfaction like no other.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: O_SHOGTUK_O,

I'm new to R6. The day I'm bored is the day I move on. I don't need respect from people who played a GAME before me. I die, I keep trying. who gives a fluck.

I disagree with this "honor" system or blocking ranks. I still love playing Vegas 1 because it's mostly experienced players and you dont get the "newbies". It's not our fault you have short tempers and decide to get rid of games when things dont go your way. I took me about 2 months to start breaking even on my K/D ratio in Vegas 1, and another month before i became good at it. Give it time and learn from your mistakes and eventually you'll get good. Plus switching constantly between halo MP, COD MP, and R6 MP is bound to mess you up so pick one and stick with it. Also the XP system in Vegas 1 helped motivate people to work as a team rather than the selfish system in V2.

Holy thread flashback!

Ranks only induce selfish gameplay.