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Forums Rainbow Six Rainbow Six Vegas 1& 2 [Console] Would you rather have new maps or redo some of the old ones first|
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Here's some more to chew on LOL Microsoft Already Working on Game For Next Xbox "In the latest issue of EGM, rumor hound Q-man got a really interesting tidbit from a mole at Microsoft: a secret first party sequel is already being worked on for the next Xbox console. According to the magazine, the game was originally planned for the Xbox 360, but was recently moved over to the next Xbox console." http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3165235 Here's a more in depth article on the next XBox console launch...nothing concrete yet...but there will be one and if you don't believe it, let's place a wager right now LOLOL Timed Monopoly: Why it's Too Soon for the Next Xbox "Well, now it's apparently starting to happen once again. Just as we have barely stepped into 2008, EGM's usually reliable Rumor Mill section is making mention that, "a secret unannounced first-party sequel originally planned for the Xbox 360, is now going over to the next Xbox"." http://www.kombo.com/article.php?artid=10653 PLEASE KEEP ME LAUGHING LOL  |
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Nice info. (and nice rumors)
Now look up how much MS and Sony lost on the PS3 and XBox360 in production costs vs. sale price. There was an article in last months (or maybe it was May's) PC Gamer that had the numbers, I don't have them handy but it's pretty safe to say it was not a profitable endeavor by any stretch of the imagination. ------------------------------- See my registration date? Yea, I'm pissed. |
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the reason why SOny and MS still sell their consoles despite the loss of revenue (per unit) is because they MORE than make up for it with all the proprietary BS that comes with it.
each game that sells, Sony and MS take their respective share of licensing fees from every publisher. and in Sony's case, it is pretty clear that the PS3 was a major factor in securing their "victory" in the Hi Def disc format (Blu Ray). and also note, that every BD publisher that wishes to press their movie onto a BD has to pay sony a fee as well. so despite the loss per console unit, the "collateral" profit far outweighs the loss. otherwise there would be no need for them to even enter the gaming industry. loss of profit per console unit isnt a "new" phenomenon. its been happening for over 10 years and yet these companies are not only still in business, but making a killing off licensing profits. thats how they stay in business (and how the gaming industry is the highest grossing entertainment industry in the world) |
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Thank you for reminding me. This is something I have been wanting to comment on (since Vegas 1), but is even more evident in V2 in my opinion. The R6V games, SP and MP, play more like a Ghost Recon game on steroids in a lot of ways because of the emphasis on cover and the third person cover system. If it were a long distance combat game and not a CQB game... This game would not be half bad in my opinion because the distances and use of cover would be justified. The cover system is not "justified" in CQB because that is what CQB is: Close Quarters Battle where the distance and LACK OF COVER between combatants is very small, or non-existent. I know everybody hates the third-person system... I'm not a huge fan of it either because it looks doctrinally wrong (no soldier is going to put his/her back to a threat)... But if this were more like GR with wide open maps with trees and rocks, or in burnt out city blocks with ruined buildings I don't think this game would be as much of a departure from this kind (outdoor) combat vs. indoor CQB. I've played the original GR and all the console and PC versions as well, but I still think this model UBI chose for the Vegas games is better suited to long range combat and would not be a half-bad game if this model was applied THERE and not here where CQB is the order of the day. |
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ROFLOL So that makes this statement of yours true??: "(don't fool yourself in thinking that MicroSoft or Sony will actually put out another gen of consoles so they can lose more billions of dollars)." Read the post under your last one, as I don't have the time to educate you. Once again, would you like to make a friendly wager?? |
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Yea, because that was exactly what the title of the article was about. It's what made me remember it. I think I threw the mag out, but it was either in May or June's. I'll see if I can find it. Either way, it was actually kind of surprising to me how much money was wasted. ------------------------------- See my registration date? Yea, I'm pissed. |
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Sony has lost $3+ billion on the PS3 so far and expects to lose more and not make it up. MS was losing $126 per X360 (the XBox was $125). Sony is most likely losing more than $200 per PS3. They are still selling Blu-Ray players for more thabn $400 and that is where some of the biggest expense of the PS3 is coming from. The original Blu-Ray players were $1500 and those are the ones that were originally placed in the PS3. As I said in the PS3 thread in Off Topic, if you had to play what Sony really should charge for a console, you wouldn't have one, a PC would be cheaper.
I remember paying $40 for PS1 games, 7 years ago. Most PS3 games (along with X360 games) are now $60 and I have seen some for $70. This is where MS and Sony make up their money, software sales. it's a fact and straight from a devs mouth. A dev has also related that console gaming is now just like PC gaming, especially with a PS3 and having to install games, updating drivers (Sony just released a new console driver/firmware update last week) and patching games no less.  "Do not build your community around a game.... Build your game around a community" Staff GhostRecon.net | Aggression WhiteKnight77 | Blackfoot Studios |
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The main thing the console has going for it is EASE-OF-USE.
Most of the general population are not "geeks". They could care less how video games work. Their primary concern is they can put in a disk, push a few buttons and be in an MP game with others from around the world with very little effort. Contrary to popular opinion on this forum, this doesn't make them "idiots", or "sheep" who will accept "garbage". It makes them normal people who don't live and breathe video games who probably have very busy lives and just want minimal hassle when trying to ENJOY themselves and their limited free time. BTW... The average age of a console player is not 12, or 13. It is early 20s to mid-30s. After mid-30s it starts to drop off for some reason. On the other hand, PC gaming is the exact opposite. I just upgraded to a Quad Core system and ATI HD 4870... Simply because I could (I came into some extra cash and this is what I chose to spend it on). However, I could have bought a console... And I was very tempted to get the Xbox 360 because almost every single major title for the PC is now a console port from either the PS3, or 360... And they often RUN better on their native platform which is my biggest pet peeve. How many badly optimized ports have we PC gamers been suffering through over the last four years? Too many for me to count and this was a major factor when I was considering buying a console instead of upgrading. The other thing that almost swayed me to the latest console was there are console exclusive games that will never make it to PC because the console is their platform of choice. I'm not talking about so-called exclusive titles that supposedly only one system gets for a set period of time; I'm talking about games that just are not on the PC like Project Gotham Racing 3; Forza; The third-person version of GRAW; etc. In the end, I opted to upgrade simply because I like to mod games as well as be able to play them at higher resolutions with all the bells and whistles turned on. However, even modding is becoming less and less an option because most of the console ports are just the game itself without proper modding tools (map editors; SDKs, etc). I do, however, replicate the console experience with my 22" (1680x1050) widescreen LCD which allows me to sit back from the screen and use a wired Xbox 360 controller for games that support them... Both R6 Vegas (1 & 2) included. My point is consoles aren't going anywhere. No matter what anybody thinks. What probably is going to happen is consoles will eventually evolve into multi-function entertainment units similar to PCs... Maybe even with Keyboard and Mouse input... But still with fixed hardware like GPU, CPU and RAM components to ensure a standard exists like in current consoles. This is just my own theory... |
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And it is a good theory, but the reason PC gaming has not been good is because publishers don't support them. This is fact. It's not because of consoles or pirating illegal copies, it's the simple fact that whomever developes the game, simple doen't support it like they do consoles. I have been following BFS for sometime now, and their celebrating of leasing UNREAL 3. These guys are the real deal. Something that I haven't seen for years. THQ somewhat supports their stuff too, at least they have a road map and people know what's coming. Unlike UBI who can't even view these boards and have input with the community at all. Just announcements out of the blue. Put the blame where the blame belongs. If this was the case Nvidia and ATI would be out of business. BTW I did and upgrade to the 4850 also. Sweet little card. Where I went they were all sold out of the 4870's   |
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And fixed hardware will always be why consoles will remain limited compared to PC's, which by definition makes PC's the better gaming platform. Game developers know this, but they also know the money is in consoles right now because support is not required and the development costs are much lower. In 3 - 4 years tho, PC games will make the PS3 and 360 titles look like handheld games in comparison. And that is also very well known by game developers. Things will most definitely change. ------------------------------- See my registration date? Yea, I'm pissed. |
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In 3 to 4 years, publishers will make games for the PS4 and the Xbox 720 (or whatever names Sony and MS are going to call their next-next-gen platforms). ************************************************ Originally posted by bjmarler1: ''There's a sucker born every minute'' - P.T. Barnum. Unfortunately UBI is counting on that all the way to the bank. |
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Ease of use is now no longer an argument for gaming on a console. The PS3 now installs a game on a hard drive. After that, the game will not let you play unless up to date and that means a patch. Download patch, oh wait, it failed. Redownload patch. Install patch and retry playing game. Time from initial disk install into console to actually being able to play a game, 42 minutes (this actually happened to a development studio's CEO). Not to mention firmware (driver) updates for the consoles themselves. Console gaming is now just like PC gaming, except you do not get to choose which hardware you get to put into the console.
"Do not build your community around a game.... Build your game around a community" Staff GhostRecon.net | Aggression WhiteKnight77 | Blackfoot Studios |
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Consoles will still be the game platform of choice for a majority of gamers because they still are not having to deal with upgrading hardware and the potential hassles that go along with this (compatibility; driver conflicts; etc).
Even if the experience is slowly starting to resemble the PC in terms of complexity, like I stated before, most people don't care how games work and just want to play. If consoles become TOO complicated THEN we will see the public either have to adjust and (re)educate themselves on how to deal with these problems... Or console makers are going to have to simplify the process even more (or make it even more transparent). |
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I dunno KungFu, I think you are overestimating how much game companies are going to continue to sacrifice in order to fit into cookie cutter console parameters.
Technology will continue to evolve, and in turn so will (or so should) the community who uses it. Saying that the consoles will continue to be the platform of choice "for a majority of gamers", that most gamers will remain too stupid or lazy to figure out how to build (or buy) a gaming computer.... just to me sounds like something from the movie 'Idiocracy'. Not sure if you've seen it. ------------------------------- See my registration date? Yea, I'm pissed. |
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MD_Sennet:
I think you can't look outside your platform of choice, the PC, and realize most people don't take video gaming as seriously as you, but more importantly as most PC gamers do. This is just the way it is. This is reality. You apparently don't want to hear this because you are in denial and it's easier to keep saying, "This is how I want things to be because this, this and this" and not look objectively at what is happening IN THE REAL WORLD. The reality is most people like Halo-type games. And I don't mean in terms of gameplay. I mean in terms of graphics. To them, this is "cutting edge" even though it is from 2001 (original Halo). This is what I don't think you are separating. It's not just whether a game is complex or not to play. It's what it looks like and unfortunately eye-candy over game play is what the majority of non-serious gamers look at first. This is what the consoles sell themselves on and they do a very good job... Because most of the population does not play PC games so they have nothing to compare it to. I don't think you understand this, nor do I really think you care to be blunt. BTW... Nice try with your little back-handed comment about Idocracy. I'm sorry, but I will not fall in line with you, WK and other GR.net/tac-sim gamers and bury my head in the sand and hope things turn out the way you want. I live in reality and even if I don't like how reality is going in terms of games like R6... I am not going to lie to you, or others about what is going on and the reality of how this industry functions and the outside forces that dictate a big portion of it, that being the majority of people still want things to be easy and uncomplicated. Especially video games which a vast majority of the population consider more or less a hobby/luxury and not a way of life. Maybe I am wrong and you are right. None of us will no until a few years from now. But if we get the XBox720 and PS4 then I am going to say my predictions are probably closer to reality than yours... |
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Understood and all good points. I wasn't necessarily going on a rant about how I think consoles are evil and should be discarded for the sake of purity to the holy grail that is PC gaming.
What I am saying, and it was in an article I read in Maximum PC (not PC Gamer as I had orig. thought) is that the financial landscape of console gaming in 3 - 4 years might end up being prohibitive for both Sony and MS to be able to afford the losses that producing the PS4 and XBox720 would almost surely incur. Again, that also could be right or wrong, but the numbers I saw in that article shocked me with how much money was lost by both parties. And I am glad you got the reference. BRAWNDO It's got electrolytes!  ------------------------------- See my registration date? Yea, I'm pissed. |
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MD_Sennet:
I apologize if I over-reacted. I love PC gaming and more realism based games jut like you and other R6 and GR fans do... But that's just not enough at this point, obviously. If you read a few posts back, you'll see how I made the decision to stick with PC gaming even in the face of it being very limited (in terms of genres and titles) compared to consoles. I don't regret my decision (I love my new rig!), but sometimes I think it is a losing battle because it's great when we get games from developers like Black Foot Studios that are built for the PC... But not so great if the communities are relatively small because the majority of gamers don't like, or are not aware of these types of games (sim games). I know one can argue a smaller community might mean more mature (attitude-wise) gamers, but producers like BFS survive on number of units sold. That's the reality I was trying to emphasize. This is why I am not only looking forward to GB, but a little nervous because if it doesn't sell well this will be one of the final nails in the coffin for tac-sim shooters in my opinion because it might confirm everything we have been discussing above.
It's no secret that MS and Sony took a bath on the initial investment of their respective consoles. The business strategy is they make back those production costs (loses) with sales of games. In other words, the software funds the hardware so-to-speak. Even if it looks like a loss they'll still keep making consoles if the potential prospect for increased revenue exists from game sales. They don't get a huge percentage from an actual title, but what they get is the money from console exclusive titles and developers/publishers licensing their console system technology (SDK). This is why MS originally entered the video game market with the original Xbox in 2001. They knew they could increase market share/profits via the licensing the platform itself more than the actual games that are produced to play on it. If they don't make actual console machines at least, they will make machines that might be more PC-like, but still simplified and "idiot" proof, so the masses don't have to worry about screwing it up somehow. At least, this is what I predict. Again, none of us will know for a few years. Like I said, none of us know how this is going to play out, but it will be very interesting in the next few years because of the relatively large leap between the current generation of consoles and the previous ones like PS2, GB and Xbox. |
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Yea, but I just don't have a fear of PC gaming taking a nosedive anytime soon.
Just in the past 6 months I've enjoyed the heck out of games like Bioshock, CoD4 (sp campaign), Crysis (which visually blew me away), The Witcher, World in Conflict, Half Life Ep. 2 last fall. And many of those have already announced sequels. Then you have things like UBI's own Far Cry 2 (which I might give a chance because afaik UBI is merely doing the publishing), Half Life2 Ep 3, Legendary. I'm not too worried about PC Gaming because I know companies like Crytek and Valve are constantly upping the bar for other, smaller companies. These people are not about settling for the money in consoles just so they can port a bad version to PC. ------------------------------- See my registration date? Yea, I'm pissed. |
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I don't think PC gaming is ever going to die out. That's not what I was implying in my original posts. We all know PC hardware and software development drives console hardware and software. Always has, always will. That's not the problem. The real problem, from my perspective is PC gaming keeps getting smaller and smaller in terms of units sold (depending on title), genres and even availability. Mainstream stores like Gamestop don't even have that many PC games any more, if at all. That's a definite sign of the times and one of the realities I was referring to. Sure, with Steam and other online distributions you don't need stores like Gamestop... But again, it all comes back to units sold which is the life force that drives the gaming industry. Including independent studios like BF and especially concerning independents if they want to stand a fighting chance against the majors (EA; UBISoft; Atari; etc.) who control major market shares and more importantly distribution channels to the greater population.
What is interesting is Bioshock, CoD4 and HL2 are all more or less the same versions across all platforms minus the control scheme. Hell, even Bioshock allows you to play it with the Xbox 360 controller for Windows if you want to. This blows the argument out of the water that consoles are "ruining gaming" -- I know you didn't state this and this isn't directed at you; I am just clarifying this for those reading that it all comes down to the DESIGN CHOICES MADE BY THE DEVS AND MANAGERS that determine whether a game is complex or good, regardless of platform.
This is where I am torn because I agree with you that not all UBISoft games "suck". I bought "Assassin's Creed" for the PC and I thought it rocked. I was very surprised at the quality of the game. Sure, it had a few bugs, but it was a rock solid experience more or less with no game stopping bugs, or other errors... Unlike R6 Vegas 1 & 2. This is where I differ with those who say "Boycott UBI" because I honestly could not do it. I've played other games in other franchises that UBI has bought, or created and I can honestly say they aren't (weren't) that bad. I don't know what the deal is with UBI and the Tom Clancy series, though. I have a few theories, but I will keep them to myself because I don't like just spreading unsubstantiated statements/rumors just to get attention... And in the long run it doesn't matter. The "why" is irrelevant. The fact there exists a problem with the R6 franchise (which is pretty much dead at this point) and UBIs lack of communication with its customers is proof enough in itself. |
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The real irony about the R6 and GR franchises is that while Ubi keeps saying that they want to make games more accessible to gamers is that they have released some of the most hardcore games around. 2 flight sims and a sub sim/RTS. Still, these games feature options that make it easy for casual gamers to play. This sounds strangely familiar.
RSE created games, while hardcore, accessible to everyone. This is one of the reasons why I think Philip Therrien is an I D ten T. Ubi had games that allowed everyone and anyone to play when they first bought RSE. Now that they have tried to appeal to the flavor of the month crowd, quality has gone down (this as far back as RvS unfortunately) and lack of sales have increased instead of sales increasing (Business 101 states that you do not get rid of your customer base, you strive to increase your customer base). Ubi might make a few quality games, but for the most part, they do not any more. Do I hope Ubi sees the error of their ways? Sure, but do I think it will happen? Not before they are handed their *** by other companies either in the Tac-Sim realm or by those who can do flavor of the month games better than Ubi can. One other thing, surely you jest about graphics on the console being better than those on a PC. "Do not build your community around a game.... Build your game around a community" Staff GhostRecon.net | Aggression WhiteKnight77 | Blackfoot Studios |
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