I finally found a way to get the AI to spawn at the start. Simply paste the following 5 lines:

[Gameplay]
; Max terrorist to spawn
MaxTerrorist = 60

; Max terrorist to spawn in TH
MaxTerroristTerroHunt = 60

Into the right PC ini file. Unfortunately I am not entirely sure which one but ones I remember are:

PCKellerGame.ini - before the [Internal] bit
PCKellerEngine.ini - after the [URL] section.
PCEngine.ini
PCGame.ini

It works a treat just checkout the short vid I made playing on casual. The AI go completely nuts.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iEHJRn_zBk8

The fact that the AI goes mental and simply rushes you from the start - albeit funny - may also be possible to tweak.

I did see a bunch of ini files for AI behaviours - maybe changing the priorities is all thats needed.

Fragging 30 odd tangos stuck at a ladder with an incendiary grenade sure is fun...

Wow. I am gonna do this to my game now

Edit: Would be nice if you knew which ini file it was to edit. I can confirm it's neither the PCKellerGame.ini file nor the PCKellerEngine.ini file.

I'll try others...

Edit2: It's also neither PCEngine.ini nor PCGame.ini. At this point I have no idea which file he edited to make this happen :\

This is proof to all the idiots who claim the tangos should all be spawned from the beginning that doing so is a bad idea. Unfortunately, it doesn't correct the horrible system currently in place.

As the other gentlemen said... It would be nice to know what file is to be edited. I also have checked the 4 files and I don't see where to add the lines to.

Can you re-confirm which one you edited?

quote:

Originally posted by HarlequinK:
This is proof to all the idiots who claim the tangos should all be spawned from the beginning that doing so is a bad idea. Unfortunately, it doesn't correct the horrible system currently in place.

This is proof that you're an idiot.

The AI was programed in accordance to how they spawn now.

If the way they spawn is changed, then it's obvious the AI programed SPECIFICALLY for them randomly spawning isn't going to work because they aren't randomly spawning anymore.

The AI would have to be tweaked.

Just like if you program a robot to put cylinders in a round hole, and then change the cylingers to cubes. It's not going to work properly anymore.

OK ...

Venturai ;
Well... I think he's working in this files as well in ConfigX360

Path D or C: Program Files/Ubisoft/Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2/KellerGame/Config/PlatformSpecificConfigPS3

Here is the content on that ini file.
============

[Gameplay]
; Max terrorist to spawn
MaxTerrorist = 6 <--change value

; Max terrorist to spawn in TH
MaxTerroristTerroHunt = 6<--change value

; Max number of players in MP
MaxPlayers = 14

; Recommended number of players in MP
RecommendedPlayers = 14

[SoundOcclusion]
; Occlusion Maximum Distance Pathfinding
OcclusionMaximumDistancePathfinding = 8000.0

; Occlusion Cache Precision
OcclusionCachePrecision = 150.0

[Animation]
; If current LOD > m_iUpdateIKLODThreshold, IK will not be updated
UpdateIKLODThreshold = 0

[R6Pawn]
; if current LOD >= MaxLODForUpdateEyePosition, eye position won't be updated
MaxLODForUpdateEyePosition = 1

; if current LOD > MaxLODForTestGunInsideWall, we won't test if a gun is inside a wall
MaxLODForTestGunInsideWall= 0


============


Pls. double check

------------

And for EddieDeath :
I hope you are back-in-up all the files you are tweaking, if not your game it's gonna be a mess in a blink of eyes.

Try to keep an "order" , create a folder called Orig ini files RSV2. or whatever u want to called.

becasue that " Into the right PC ini file. Unfortunately I am not entirely sure which one but ones I remember are:" sounds like
(try to get some sleep)


And for the AI yes there's a Ini file were u can set "Tweak or Change" the behavior of all of them.



Keep up the good work .





cheerios

@ DexLuther

If the tangos wouldn't rush at you from the moment they spawn - even without any chance to notice you - the game would feel perfect if all tangos spawn at the beginning. Both "flaws" go hand in hand: Spawning tangos in mid-game and that insanely rushing of them against you. We have to get rid of both of these flaws!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ANightMares:
PlatformSpecificConfigPS3

Alright, I figured it out.

You guys may notice in \KellerGame\Config that there's a PlatformSpecificConfigPS3.ini file and a PlatformSpecificConfigX360.ini file but not one for the PC.

So I copied either one of the existing files and created a PlatformSpecificConfigPC.ini file. Then I modified those lines to set both those values to 60 as shown above.

And yeah, that seems to work. I've tried it on several maps now, and while they do really come at you, I feel like if you want to get the attention of absolutely all of them, you still have to get out there a little. You just don't have to go very far.

One sure way to check that it's working is to fire up a game on streets, turn around and take the path to the right leading up and outside. If you can see terrorists scattered around the buildings out there, you know you're good to go.

Enjoy fellas, and let me know how it goes.

quote:

Originally posted by DreamMarine:
@ DexLuther

If the tangos wouldn't rush at you from the moment they spawn - even without any chance to notice you - the game would feel perfect if all tangos spawn at the beginning. Both "flaws" go hand in hand: Spawning tangos in mid-game and that insanely rushing of them against you. We have to get rid of both of these flaws!!!

Yes, but the person I was responding to was using the second flaw as a reason why fixing the first flaw wouldn't work.

The second flaw however only exists because of the first flaw. IE: the AI was programed the way it was to work with the spawning of the enemies mid-session.

quote:

This is proof to all the idiots who claim the tangos should all be spawned from the beginning that doing so is a bad idea.

Is completely invalid.

If you take a robot that's programed to put cylinders into circular holes and give it cubes instead of cylinders, it's not going to work right.

If you change one parameter, you have to change all the parameters that were programed specifically to work with the first one.

You can make the terrorists all spawn at the beginning, but having them use the AI built around them spawning mid round and reacting accordingly isn't going to to give you very positive results.

quote:

Originally posted by DexLuther:

quote:

Originally posted by DreamMarine:
@ DexLuther

If the tangos wouldn't rush at you from the moment they spawn - even without any chance to notice you - the game would feel perfect if all tangos spawn at the beginning. Both "flaws" go hand in hand: Spawning tangos in mid-game and that insanely rushing of them against you. We have to get rid of both of these flaws!!!

Yes, but the person I was responding to was using the second flaw as a reason why fixing the first flaw wouldn't work.

The second flaw however only exists because of the first flaw. IE: the AI was programed the way it was to work with the spawning of the enemies mid-session.

I a totally agree with you. I wanted to say exactly the same.

I was referring to HarlequinK with my statement (approving your response to it). I should have made this a little bit more clear.

quote:

Originally posted by DexLuther:
The second flaw however only exists because of the first flaw. IE: the AI was programed the way it was to work with the spawning of the enemies mid-session.

Yeah I gotta admit that being able to make them all spawn in advance only seems to serve to make a bad situation worse because they're not meant to be all spawned in advance.

Now you'll get upwards of a dozen terrorists rush you from the same location, and they'll do things like get caught on ladders and so forth. It essentially makes them easy prey cause they're all getting caught in each other's way.

It's a bit annoying though because from a technical standpoint, the game runs just fine with them all in there. A couple of slight modifications with regards to which enemies are alerted to your presence when you initiate combat or are spotted are all that would've been required to make this work.

So close, and yet so far.

And what parameter would that be? How about if the tangos ignore your gunshots and all stand around waiting to be slaughtered? The maps are so small that ANY shot, except perhaps a suppressed one on certain maps, would be heard anywhere on the map. Once again you have them all rushing you.

quote:

Originally posted by HarlequinK:
How about if the tangos ignore your gunshots and all stand around waiting to be slaughtered?

Hehe, if I wanted to play a Rainbow Six game where the terrorists would basically not move from their initial spawn location, I'd fire up the original, Rogue Spear or Raven Shield. At least in Vegas they actually move around.

While you're right in that you'd be able to hear the sound of gunfire pretty much anywhere in the Terrorist Hunt maps, this is one of those times where realism doesn't make for good gameplay. Ideally setting it up so only terrorists within a certain distance of you or your target are alerted to the threat would seem to work best in my opinion.

"Realism" doesn't mean that they have to come running when they hear gunfire. It could just as easily mean that they find cover and wait for you. Or they could fall back and regroup if they're alone. The problem is bad AI scripting - they only know how to do one thing and that is charge directly towards you no matter how many bodies they have to step over.

quote:

While you're right in that you'd be able to hear the sound of gunfire pretty much anywhere in the Terrorist Hunt maps, this is one of those times where realism doesn't make for good gameplay.

FYI, neither the older R6s or newer ones have ever featured "realistic AI.

in any game especially tactical shooters, realistic AI will always trump ridiculously scripted ones.

whether that script is the "stand in one place" tango of old, or the idiot "run at you with a spas" tango of new, doesnt matter they both are examples of bad AI.

a good AI, a realistic one, would have all tangos on the map (if they all heard the sound of initial gunfire) start setting up defensive perimeters, flanking, covering each others movement and other such tactics that any good military, paramilitary, or trained terrorist organization would employ.

I think Venturai is right. I had actually done that but forgot to mention it ( the file got hidden somehow). Maybe we can stick other stuff in this file...

Made another vid:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ys2uMr6QYfY

The spawn behaviour differs on different maps. Sometimes you have 5 that dont spawn - sometimes you have to move further into the map before they all rush you.

The game runs fine even with 30-40 tangos visible. Watching hordes of them bomb around the map is hilarious.

I have had a bunch of crashes:

Huge body piles causing insane physics calculations.
30-40 tangos stuck at a ladder or tight location ( suprisingly doesnt crash it that often though).

Trying to tweak the AI now but not making much progress. At the moment they all rush after a single tango sees you. Some rush straight away - others move around a bit but will generally end up moving towards you.

The config files have "scores" for retreating, rushing, hiding and all kinds of AI features not even present in the game like blocking paths and throwing barrels at the player.

Hmm, this is rather interesting. Although as it works right now I imagine it'll be only fun for a laugh and it'll make playing t-hunts far worse than it originally is.

I have 2 theories which might stop the AI from rushing but I'm not sure if it'll work, and it'll probably have other consequences. Try disabling the ChargeEnemy AI function completely. Or edit the weapon config file and reduce the amount of sound all the weapons makes.

I think I might mess around with this myself as well. After a quick look at the AI actions config file I definitely noticed some interesting left-overs, like the AI having a function to actually surrender.

@VeryFluffy

i checked both of your theories and they dont´t effect the behaviour of terrors, i am sorry.

I assume that the terrors interact with each other even if you try to make no noise.
The interaction seems not to depend on sounds,
it depens on steping into their, what i call, "attention" radius.

Turning the gun sound radius to 0 would never work because hitting glas and doors still makes sounds.

Made some progress on the AI.

If you watch rainbow using something like process monitor from sysinternals you can see all the reg / file accesses.

Turns out it never accesses the DefaultAIActionTypeConfig.ini or the PCKellerAIActionTypeConfig.ini

It does however appear to access KellerAIActionTypeConfig.ini which it creates if its not there. It may be the case that if the file is not there it creates it from the default.

So anyway I created the file and set loads of wacky numbers. I made a simple c++ app to edit the settings so I could try different stuff.

Interesting one so far is getting the AI not to shoot at all until you fire at them. Kinda scary walking around 30 tangos just standing there.

The game reads the ini file once per game startup but it definately changes stuff once you have it running.

You can see that PlatformSpecificConfigPC.ini is read and is infact one of the first files read in.

quote:

Originally posted by HarlequinK:
And what parameter would that be? How about if the tangos ignore your gunshots and all stand around waiting to be slaughtered? The maps are so small that ANY shot, except perhaps a suppressed one on certain maps, would be heard anywhere on the map. Once again you have them all rushing you.

Fixing the AI doesn't mean make them with stay put or go.

They could make them do other things, like investigate, set up barricades. They could also be more alert and maybe put on armor.

The problem is that UBI opted for the simplest AI possible, and put in the spawning system to make that work.

There's an expression in French that goes "La loi du moindre effort." Translated as "The law (or rule) of least effort." It's basically what UBI (and most devs) are following these days.