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there is no "theory" about it, only fact. here is how Golaiath explains it
this is otherwise known as bullet magnetism. back in Vegas 1 a lot of us did some extensive research and testing on how it works and have come up with interesting conclusions. one of which, the auto aim seemingly does not have a limit on range, so you could really nail enemies from way further than your SMG's "effective range" in-game thanks to the auto aim bending the bullets toward target (in addition to full auto low recoil). hence all the complaints about SMG hip snipers the first time around in my OPINION, i personally believe the auto aim in this game is WAY overpowered and takes a considerable amount of skill AWAY from the game, especially when it encourages hip fire over precise scoping. hip fire is much more accurate than scoping in on target in this game, which makes no sense whatsoever. |
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That doesn't make much sense. The autoaim makes it easier to hit the center of the screen? That's not autoaim, that's just higher accuracy. |
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no. you dont even have to aim center
if you need me to make a diagram i will. you only need the CIRCLE to come near the target. you can score a computer assisted headshot without your center of your crosshair EVER touching the enemy's head, only the outer circle. i did it all the time. THATS auto aim |
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As long as that reticle stays over the target, the auto-aim will assist your bullets in finding their target. So the weapons that have low recoil on full auto (FAMAS, M8, etc) get much more of a boost from the autoaim because the reticle doesn't get kicked all over the place. While a bigger weapon will knock the reticle away after only 2-3 rounds, you can do a 5-8 round burst with these and still be on target with enough rounds to kill. And since you can hold the trigger down longer and still remain somewhat accurate, you don't have to be as precise about your aiming as you do with the high recoil guns. And you are always faster than somebody trying to use a scope unless they're already zoomed in on you.
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Nope, it doesn't work like that. And it's very easy to test. Go play a lone wolf terrorist hunt on Trainyard. Use an SMG with a laser sight (giving you a HUGE crosshair), then go through the left door, and open the door to the right. You'll see a terrorist close to you but he doesn't see you. Make sure the reticle is over him (but the dot in the middle isn't). Fire and you'll miss.
Perhaps you're thinking it's the autoaim which is giving you the headshots, but it's actually just the recoil and because of the random bullet apread you're getting lucky? Using a weapon with a really high fire rate and a little recoil it's likely you'll hit the head when aiming close it. |
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I've never tested it at close range to be honest.. At that range do you really need auto-aim?
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Okay, I'm really not sure anymore.
I did another playtest through Trainyard, just throwing smoke at each enemy encounter while using the P90 with laser sight (you'll get the biggest crosshair with this weapon... and I do mean BIG) so I could easily try shooting besides enemies instead of directly at them. Sometimes the bullets would go exactly where I pointed the crosshair... other times it suspiciously hit the enemy even though I wasn't aiming directly at them. So it seems you guys are right. Although it's not reliable so I think there's a random chance whether or not autoaim kicks in (or there's specific situations where the autoaim won't have effect at all). |
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It's definitely still a random chance to hit, which is why the high ROF/low recoil weapons dominate - more lead = more chances for that headshot to connect.
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well of course it is not going to hit off center EVERY time. auto aim just increases your chances of hitting dead center when your center crosshair is not directly on target. the real kicker on why auto aim is overpowered is because it works at pretty much an infinite range, so try it from far away, when you can roll the circle over the entire enemy's body from far away and see how amazingly accurate the auto aim works when you have a gun with high ROF and low recoil. low recoil = more shots while target is in auto aim circle. more shots with auto aim assist = higher percentage of hits, especially headshots. for some reason auto aim favors head shot hit detection i think. and besides, scoring 75% headshots per kill is not "random luck", it is a ridiculous handicap. and its a statistic that i cant even come close to replicating in any other shooter ive ever played. only this one (well, vegas 1, which shares the exact same game mechanic as vegas 2). |
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thx man that helps also so you think we should use a silencer??
thx a lot nevermore just 1 thing is it good when guns have a lot of bars for recoil? |
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Silencers reduce damage by 25%, so only use them to conceal your position (though they do reduce your recoil by 25% as well). Also, less recoil bars is a good thing.  |
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Well, I've finished the guide, but it's apparently way too big for one post :P
The main part of the guide has been updated into the first post in the thread. Rest of the info here... (shotguns, sniper rifles and quick summary) Detailed shotgun info: -M3- DamageAt0M=38 (very good) DamageAt5M=36 (very good) DamageAt20M=7 (very bad) DamageAt50M=0 (very bad) BaseAccuracy=1 (very bad) InitialBulletSpread=200 (very bad) BulletSpreadPerBullet=0 (N/A) BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=1.8 (very good) MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=350 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=1500 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=70 (average) RealFireRate=70 (very bad) NormalMagSize=8 (very bad) PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.1 (very bad) PenetrationDropFactor=0.15 (very bad) StartChamberReloadTime=1.2f (very bad) ChamberReloadTime=0.766f (very bad) Attachments = Laser sights, reflex sights, rifle scope -SPAS 12- DamageAt0M=44 DamageAt5M=42 DamageAt20M=9 DamageAt50M=0 BaseAccuracy=1 InitialBulletSpread=200 BulletSpreadPerBullet=0 BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=1.5 MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=350 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=1500 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=60 RealFireRate=60 NormalMagSize=8 HighCapacityMagSize=15 PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.1 PenetrationDropFactor=0.15 StartChamberReloadTime=1.2f ChamberReloadTime=0.766f EndChamberReloadEmptyTime=1.333f EndChamberReloadTacticalTime=0.9f ChamberReloadStartUpdateAmmoTimer=1.2f ChamberReloadCycleUpdateAmmoTimer=0.766f Attachments = Laser sights, reflex sights, rifle scope, ACOG scope -870MCS- DamageAt0M=40 DamageAt5M=38 DamageAt20M=7 DamageAt50M=0 BaseAccuracy=1 InitialBulletSpread=200 BulletSpreadPerBullet=0 BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=1.8 MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=350 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=1500 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=50 RealFireRate=60 NormalMagSize=8 HighCapacityMagSize=15 PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.1 PenetrationDropFactor=0.15 StartChamberReloadTime=1.2f ChamberReloadTime=0.766f EndChamberReloadEmptyTime=1.333f EndChamberReloadTacticalTime=0.9f ChamberReloadStartUpdateAmmoTimer=1.2f ChamberReloadCycleUpdateAmmoTimer=0.766f Attachments = Laser sights, reflex sights, rifle scope, ACOG scope -500 Tactical- DamageAt0M=36 DamageAt5M=34 DamageAt20M=6 DamageAt50M=0 BaseAccuracy=1 InitialBulletSpread=200 BulletSpreadPerBullet=0 BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=2 MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=350 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=1500 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=80 RealFireRate=80 NormalMagSize=8 HighCapacityMagSize=15 PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.3 PenetrationDropFactor=0.2 StartChamberReloadTime=1.2f ChamberReloadTime=0.766f EndChamberReloadEmptyTime=1.333f EndChamberReloadTacticalTime=0.9f ChamberReloadStartUpdateAmmoTimer=1.2f ChamberReloadCycleUpdateAmmoTimer=0.766f Attachments = Laser sights, reflex sights, rifle scope, ACOG scope -XM-26 LSS- DamageAt0M=24 DamageAt5M=22 DamageAt20M=1 DamageAt50M=0 BaseAccuracy=1 InitialBulletSpread=200 BulletSpreadPerBullet=0 BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=2 MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=350 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=1500 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=60 FireRateBurst=135 RealFireRate=135 NormalMagSize=5 PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.9 PenetrationDropFactor=0.9 ReloadTacticTime=2.333f ReloadEmptyTime=3.233f Attachments = Laser sights, reflex sights, rifle scope Notes: -SPAS12 deals the most damage of all the shotguns. 870MCS has similar stats but deals less damage, definitely a shotgun to skip. -M3 deals less damage, but slightly slower fire rate. 500 Tactical deals even less damage but fires even faster. -XM26LSS deals the least amount of damage (about half of the SPAS12) but its fire rate is twice as fast as the SPAS12. But it's the only shotgun with really bad penetration and it has even less ammo than the other shotguns. Bottom line: -What's the best one? Well, depends on what you think is most effective at killing. Do you feel confident you'll hit with the first shot so you might as well go with the highest damage to make sure the target dies? Or go with a faster one in case you miss? I'd personally go with the Spas 12. But the other choices aren't bad. Except for the 870MCS, skip that one. Attachment to use? -Scope on a shotgun is not very useful. There's no fun in aiming at a target and seeing the buckshot land everywhere else. Laser sight is more than pointless because the shotguns has no accuracy, so when the laser sight double the accuracy... well, you still got zero accuracy. Detailed Sniper Rifle info: -PSG1- DamageAt0M=90 (very good) DamageAt5M=80 (very good) DamageAt20M=87 (very good) DamageAt50M=87 (very good) BaseAccuracy=40 (average) InitialBulletSpread=0 (very good) BulletSpreadPerBullet=180 (very bad) BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=0.5 (good) MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=1000 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=4000 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 RealFireRate=100 (very bad) NormalMagSize=5 (very bad) PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.0f PenetrationDropFactor=1.0f (very good) ReloadTacticTime=2.8f (average) ReloadEmptyTime=3.667f (bad) Attachments = 3 different sniper scopes -SV-98- DamageAt0M=117 DamageAt5M=100 DamageAt20M=100 DamageAt50M=100 BaseAccuracy=25 InitialBulletSpread=0 BulletSpreadPerBullet=130 BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=0.4 MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=1000 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=4000 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=33 RealFireRate=33 NormalMagSize=5 HighCapacityMagSize=8 PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.0f PenetrationDropFactor=1.0f ReloadTacticTime=2.333f ReloadEmptyTime=3.200f FPShootIKBlendOutDuration=0 FPShootIKBlendInDuration=0.1 Attachments = 3 different sniper scopes -M40A1- DamageAt0M=127 DamageAt5M=107 DamageAt20M=107 DamageAt50M=107 BaseAccuracy=25 InitialBulletSpread=0 BulletSpreadPerBullet=150 BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=0.5 MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=1000 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=4000 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=33 RealFireRate=33 NormalMagSize=5 HighCapacityMagSize=8 PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.0f PenetrationDropFactor=1.0f ReloadTacticTime=2.333f ReloadEmptyTime=3.200f Attachments = 3 different sniper scopes -L96 Artic Warfare- DamageAt0M=127 DamageAt5M=107 DamageAt20M=107 DamageAt50M=107 BaseAccuracy=25 InitialBulletSpread=0 BulletSpreadPerBullet=170 BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=0.5 MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=1000 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=4000 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=33 RealFireRate=33 NormalMagSize=5 HighCapacityMagSize=8 PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.0f PenetrationDropFactor=1.0f ReloadTacticTime=2.333f ReloadEmptyTime=3.200f Attachments = 3 different sniper scopes -Scout Tactical- DamageAt0M=127 DamageAt5M=107 DamageAt20M=107 DamageAt50M=107 BaseAccuracy=25 InitialBulletSpread=0 BulletSpreadPerBullet=170 BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=0.5 MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=1000 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=4000 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=33 RealFireRate=33 NormalMagSize=5 HighCapacityMagSize=8 PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.0f PenetrationDropFactor=1.0f ReloadTacticTime=2.333f ReloadEmptyTime=3.200f Attachments = 3 different sniper scopes -SR-25 SD- DamageAt0M=90 DamageAt5M=80 DamageAt20M=87 DamageAt50M=60 BaseAccuracy=40 InitialBulletSpread=0 BulletSpreadPerBullet=170 BulletSpreadRecoveryTime=0.5 MovementBulletSpreadMinSpread=1000 MovementBulletSpreadMaxSpread=4000 RotationBulletSpreadInterpSpeed=6 FireRateSingle=60 RealFireRate=100 NormalMagSize=5 HighCapacityMagSize=8 PenetrationInitialDropFactor=0.0f PenetrationDropFactor=1.0f ReloadTacticTime=2.8f ReloadEmptyTime=3.667f Attachments = 3 different sniper scopes (builtin suppressor) Notes: -All of these are bolt-action except for the PSG1 and SR25SD. I'll compare the bolt-action ones first. -M40A1, L96 and Scout Tactial share the highest damage of the sniper rifles. Actually, those 3 sniper rifles are 100% identical. -SV98 deals the least damage of the bolt-action rifles and... it's got nothing to make up for it. Well, it has smaller bullet spread but that's trivial with that low rate of fire. The gun looks cool though. -PSG1 deals about 2/10 less damage but fires 3 times as fast as the bolt-action rifles since it's semi-automatic. Clearly superior. -SR25SD is silenced and deals less damage at really far range. I'm assuming there's also a 30% damage reduction because it's silenced. Bottom line: -All the bolt-action rifles are clearly inferior. Especially the SV98. -So the choice is between the PSG1 and SR25SD. Silencer or 30% damage? Even with a silencer the SR25SD deals a lot of damage so I'd go with that. Which attachment to use? -Well, the only difference is how much zoom you want on the scope. So go with whatever you need. I personally think 6x is more than enough. --Quick summary-- For those who don't wanna read through all the details about the weapons, here's a very quick summary about which weapons are generally the best to use. The best handgun is definitely the Desert Eagle or Raging Bull. If you wanna be the underdog and kill with what's the worst handgun, go for the P99. Best SMG is definitely the P90. Its low recoil and fast rate of fire definitely makes up for its weaker damage. The underdog among the SMGs is a bit harder to see, but it would probably be the MP5N. Best AR seems to be the Famas with its extreme fire rate, low recoil and fast aim. The underdog award goes to G3 with its okay damage, and rest of the stats being awful. Best LMG award goes to MK46, but there's really no distinct advantage with it. Underdog award goes to M249 as its similar to the MK46... just worse. Best shotgun goes to SPAS12. But as with LMGs there's no big difference. With the exception of the 870MCS which is definitely the underdog. Best sniper rifle goes to SR-25 SD. SV-98 is most definitely the worst sniper rifle. ------------------------------------------ Here's some quick observations of how weapons were changed between Vegas 1 and 2. First of all, there's a few variables which weren't in Vegas 1 at all. No penetration obviously and no movement speed difference between weapon types. --Handguns-- -Laser accuracy a lot higher (1.3->2.0) (all other weapon types got changed from 1.3 to 1.8) -Intial bulletspread almost half of the original value -Fire rate 1/3 faster -Bullet spread per bullet slightly higher -Damage modifier when using suppressor smaller (80%->90%) -The powerful handguns (eagle and bull) actually got reduced recoil --SMGs-- -Slightly more damage at the 20-50 range -1/3 less damage at 50+ range -Less autoaim -Slightly higher initial bullet spread -Damage modifier when using suppressor smaller (70%->80%) -P90 got higher autoaim -MP9 got slightly more autoaim but much worse recoil --ARs-- -Slightly less damage at 50+ range -Higher autoaim -Much smaller initial bullet spread -Slightly less recoil -Damage modifier when using suppressor smaller (60%->75%) -Famas got no special treatment --LMGs-- -Big damage boost, especially for far range (50+ range) -Smaller initial bullet spread -Reduced autoaim -Higher recoil --Shotguns-- -Very big damage reduction at long range (20+ range) -Higher rate of fire -XM-26 LSS specifically got a much slower rate of fire --Sniper rifles-- -Greatly increased damage -Very big reduction in autoaim (then again, sniper rifles always had autoaim turned off, but well, the change is there anyway :P) This message has been edited. Last edited by: VeryFluffy, |
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Ick,
Is this the pdf you uploaded for RBSV1 or 2? it is labelled as two, but There is no scorpion or Tactical 500 - also copyright is 2006 |
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IMO yes less recoil > damage guns with less recoil always seem to win. i always equipped a suppressor on almost every gun i used |
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As far as I know, suppressor will only reduce the visual recoil. It won't reduce the bullet spread. |
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Thanks for the rest of the data on the weapons.
I think your philosophy regarding the shotguns should apply to sniper rifles as well. You go for the SPAS as a one-hitter-quitter; the same should be said of the bolt-action snipers. They do substantially more damage while obviously incurring a penalty for rate of fire. So, if you have confidence you won't miss, the bolt-actions are the way to go. I personally am the type of player who won't fire a sniper shot unless I know I'll make it. Not so coincidentally, I use the SPAS the same way. I've used the PSG1 before and had people eat those (though I'm sure they were blacked out), whereas I've yet to have anyone eat a shot from my L96. I could definitely see the use of the SR-25 SD though on a map like Trainyard, or even the PSG1 if you're planning on encountering multiple targets at range. |
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is that new for vegas2? cause it worked like a charm in vegas1 before the 3rd patch on 360 |
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I'm sure that'd be pretty easy to test. Matter of fact, I'll test it right now... And the verdict is in. Yes it's a VERY big difference. I used the wall on the 2nd floor of the outside of Killhouse to test. Without the suppressor, I would recoil up off the wall with 8 rounds left (high-cap mag). With the suppressor on I could empty the whole mag and still be on the wall, not to mention the initial grouping was MUCH tighter. |
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Yeah, you got a point. But all the shotguns do roughly the same amount of damage over time. Sniper rifles are very different in that regard. Bolt actions rifles may do more damage with one shot, but the PSG1 fires 3 times as fast with only a small reduction in damage per shot. So the damage over time potential increases dramatically, and it makes it easier to kill multiple enemies in a row. With that said, I'd probably go for the bolt action rifles regardless. Simply because I REALLY like bolt-action rifles in general :P
is that new for vegas2? cause it worked like a charm in vegas1 before the 3rd patch on 360[/QUOTE] I don't know, it's possible. All I know is that there's nothing in the data files which indicates a silencer decreases bullet spread. And I did a few simple tests ingame where I unloaded a magazine at a wall with and without silencer, and I got a similar type of spread each time. |
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I guess the bottom line here is all sniper rifles are deadly.  |
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