Well while i also have an idea/wish thread going, i kinda feel that factions should have a thread of their own. So here it is, post your ideas for how the old factions should be and your ideas for new factions.

The more you can describe them the better, unit descriptions, your ideas for doing this and that and so on.

To start off i'll post my idea on how i think the Haven faction might be in HoMM VI, i'll add my thoughts to the other factions later on and come up with a few factions of my own as well.

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Well the events of HoMM V does offer some good ideas for how haven could look like in HoMM VI, with the two upgrade trees being able to be sharply divided in the noble feudalism branch and a much more zealous branch. Which i don't think was completely apparent in HoMM V, as some of the units didn't quite feel right in it.

So here is my idea.. and i may come with others later on.

Tier 1:
Peasant: Labouring in the fields for most of his life, the life of a peasant is a tought one, and may get much tougher if his lord calls upon him to serve in his armies, wielding nothing more but the farming implements he works with.

Upgrade 1: Spearman.
It is not uncommon for lords to give the peasants they conscript some proper training and equipment, the common spear being a simple weapon to produce and does not require much training in it's use, and works well in great numbers, the spearmen are useful on the battlefield.
Upgrade 2: Battle Brother.
For the more Pious lord, the bishop and the crusader, peasants present a valuable soldier, filled with faith and given a short sword and shield, these faithful soldiers cover themselves in simple symbols and cheap relics, hoping that these will confer the aid of Elrath upon them.

Level 2:
Archer:
A common soldier in the employ of a haven lord, the archer is given ample training with the bow, and while they may not be as good as the archers of the elves, what they lack in skill they make up for in numbers.

Upgrade 1: Crossbowman
With a crossbow, an archer can become a more dangerous foe to his enemy, being able to send an armour piercing bolt, able to kill even the most armoured knight
Upgrade 2: Marksman.
Through zeal these archers have found greater skill and are able to shoot off more arrows with surprising speed, choosing to overwhelm their foes with a rain of arrows.

Level 3:
Footman:
The backbone of the of the Griffon Empire army, the footman is well equipped and trained to deal with the threats to the empire.
Upgrade 1: Foot-knight.
Renowed throughout the Griffon Empire for their bravery, tenacity and skill, but also their heavy armour, the foot knights are a foe to be reckoned with on the battlefield, and while they may be slow, their skill and armour more than makes up for it.
Upgrade 2:
Templar:
With blessed weapons, these holy warriors set forth to defeath the enemies of Elrath and the Empire, relentlessly attacking those that would oppose.

Level 4:Griffon.
The Symbol of the Griffon Empire, the griffon is a fearsome beast that will fight to the death, but a swift creature on the battlefield, it has been the demise of more than one army to underestimate these beasts.
Upgrade 1: Imperial Griffin:
Given armour plates and additional training by master trainers, these griffons are capable of much destruction on the battlefield.
Upgrade 2: Holy Griffon.
Raised and trained by monks, these griffons are not dangerous because of their training, but because of what the monks equip each griffon with, each griffon is given a carefully crafted breastplate, blessed by the monks, this breastplate protects the griffon against magic.

Level 5: Priest:
Servants of Elrath, the priests are not able to invoke the wrath of their god unto the battlefield, but also able to cast beneficial spells unto their brethren on the battlefield.
Upgrade 1: Cleric.
Having spent time in the Sacred libraries the knowledge of the priest in expanded and he may call himself a cleric, gaining more spells, not just beneficial ones but also ones that may smite the enemies of Elrath, the cleric is a capable spellcaster.
Upgrade 2: Preacher.
With a bellowing voice the preachers extoll the virtues of Elrath and command their flocks to attack those who oppose him and the Griffon Empire, capable of raining death upon his enemies or inspire those besides him to couragous feats of battle.

Level 6: Knight Errant.
Having not proved their worth yet, these Errant knights are eager to join a battle and kill for honour and glory.
Upgrade 1: Paladins.
These paragons of Virtue and Honour are among the best the Griffon Empire have to offer, these elite soldiers have turned the tide of many a battle.
Upgrade 2: Crusader.
Having left everything behind to serve Elrath, these holy warriors have received many blessings, their armour inscribed with prayers, they are an inspiring sight on the battlefield.

Level 7:
Angel: Representatives of Elrath, these divine beings are capable warriors, as awe inspiring as they are deadly, any army fighting besides them is ecstatic to do so.
Upgrade 1: Archangel.
Lieutenants of Elrath, they have been granted tha ability to bring back the dead to fight once more in the name of Elrath.
Upgrade 2: Seraphim.
Created with the purpose to punish the enemies of Elrath, the seraphim fights without remorse or mercy, cutting down anything that stands in it's way.

Well that is my idea on how the Haven Faction may look in HoMM VI, and that is just the creatures, more things will appear, and probably a few other ideas for creature line ups.

So bring forth your ideas and wishes, how would you like your factions ?

Hmmm I have already described what I would like for Dungeon in the other thread. Basically just:

Tier 1 - same
Tier 2 - Troglodytes
Tier 3 - Blood Fury
Tier 4 - same (with improved alternate)
Tier 5 - Manticore
Tier 6 - same, just considerable improvements in power
Tier 7 - The Faceless or the Hydra (with appropriate improvements)

I don't like the Minotaur, but I can't think of anything to replace it. Medusae would be nice, but they're ranged, and I think they might be better suited as an alternate to the Matriarch. Perhaps troglodytes? Minotaurs could go over to Stronghold. The manticore will have to be made bigger to fill the Hydra's former role, unless the Faceless are brought in, in which case no change is needed (except for balance changes.) I'd like to see the Matriarch/Mistress (or whatever) considerably improved, given boosted spellcasting (and maybe melee) powers and perhaps teleportation, amongst other things. Giving them a nifty ability, alongside Whip Strike, would be cool. I thought Invisibility was awesome for the Mistress.

I also would like to see some slight differences in Necropolis:
tier 5 - Dark Knight (Champion of Asha/Death Knight)
tier 6 - wraith (reaper/banshee)
tier 7 - lich (archlich/demilich)

A caster at tier 7? I say why not? Lichs are meant to be mighty spellcasters, and as it is, they're already 2x2 squares. All the developer would have to do is figure out how to balance the unit. That's their job though. All melee units at tier 7 is dull, no offence Nival.

I'd also like for the developer to insure overall game balance is top notch.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Moragauth,

I wouldn't mind having liches as the tier 6 unit, but I think they should stick with undead dragons, I've always liked them.

quote:

Originally posted by ImperialDane:
@H5forem:
Just a question, but what holds this faction together ? Because as far as i see it is just animals grouped together, which really isn't a faction, there needs to be some humanoid race to pull it together.

Otherwise just wait, i'll be starting off a faction discussion, because this thread is more about gameplay ideas than factions.

They still have humans(or elfs) as leaders. This would be a neutral race, they are protectors of the wild forest of ashan, forests not populated by elf or humans, just a few of them living in balance and peace with nature.

I know, is a very "green" race. Is an sylvan spin-off, but natural ground is jungle, not celtic forests. Jungles where a small group of beastmasters(elfs and humans) spend theyre lifes, not a strong human or elfish comunity. Where armies are formed from the animals living there under humanoid comand, not an army of humanoids like sylvan and haven.



The nature orientated faction:


Heroe: Beastmaster (racial skill - opened for sugestions)

Creatures:

level 1: rats - plague, breed

level 2: wasps - flyer, poison, incorporeal

level 3: monkeys - shooter, imitator

level 4: wolves - pack hunter, howl

level 5: bears - enraged, fear roar

level 6: tigers - no retaliation, bloodthirsty, jump

level 7: thunderbirds - flyer, immune to lightning, lightning attack

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breed = every week, number of rats in heroe army increase by 5%

plague = -2 attack, -2 defense, -2 speed, -2 initiative (25% chance)

poison = target's ATB value is reduced by 0.3

imitator = every time sommeone cast a spell (own heroe, enemy heroe, units) in battle have a 25% chance to cast that spell (can cast only level 1 and 2 spells, with no mastery effect).

fear roar = 25% chance to paralise 1 enemy by fear (no initiative and no retaliation for 1 turn), the scared unit can be the one under attack or another one adiacent to the bear.

bloodthirsty = after every attack, damage is increased by 5% (on retaliations too, but only against living creatures)

jump = can jump over 1-3 tiles (not walls) with extra 5-15% more damage.

lightning attack = with every attack can cast a lightning bolt of 30 damage per thunderbird (25% chance, creatures immune to lightning are not afected).

@Moragauth: Interesting dark elf suggestions, although i think the dragons do belong there, although the faceless cannot be denied as well

And for your undead suggestions ? No it would not be strange to see a tier 7 spellcaster, would be cool actually, but on the other hand the undead dragons are kinda connected with the undead, you could have liches instead of the wraiths and then move the dark knights in instead at tier 5 as you suggested.

But on the other hand, liches as a tier 7 creature would be cool, and they could have a rather extensive spell list i suppose

@H5forem: It's still just animals grouped together, and a rather unlikely combination as well, rats monekeys and bears ? and tigers oh my ! They would be better suited as neutral units on their own, with the beastmaster being a neutral hero (could be an interesting new feature )

But there is nothing in them that binds them together as a faction.

quote:

Originally posted by ImperialDane:
But there is nothing in them that binds them together as a faction.

Didn't yo see Dr. doolittle?

They all fight under the command of the beastmaster, to protect the forests. They all fight coordonated by a beasmaster, not on their own.

quote:

Originally posted by ImperialDane:
@Moragauth: Interesting dark elf suggestions, although i think the dragons do belong there, although the faceless cannot be denied as well

My idea was for dragons to be neutrals which can be summoned, e.g. black dragons for Dungeon, green ones for the Sylvan &c.

@H5forem: That is not the same, that does not constitute a faction, merely an army.
Where are the cities ? The cultures and so on. There is none, it is just a random and unlikely coalition of beasts lead by beastmasters. Besides the Sylvan faction already protects the forests with the blessings of Sylanna.

@Moragauth: Well it could make for an interesting idea with racial spells i suppose
*runs of to the idea thread*

Ashan Inferno (i.e. the dull one):
Tier 1 - Imp - Familiar/Quasit (same as now)
Tier 2 - Flamethrower - Magma Bomb Thrower/Incinerator: the names are rather stupid, but the idea is to bring back the lvl 2 shooter. The basic one has no specials, while the upgrades give a choice between fireball attack - 3x3 or 5x5 explosion, doing full damage to everything cought inside (MB Thrower) or chain fire attack, like the one of the Succubi Mistresses (Incinerator).
Tier 3 - Hell Hound - Pandemonium Hound/Cerberus: I'd suggest higher stats, mainly Attack and Defense at the expense of lower growth for all of these satani canes. The Hell Hound is nothing special. The Pandemonium Hound is NOT a three-headed beast, but rather a more ferocious version of the Hell Hound - higher stats and for instance it could ignore 50% of the enemy Defense when attacking, but still the opponent can retaliate and the target is just one. The Cerberus is the classic three-headed dog for mass slaughter, which can't be retaliated against.
Tier 4 - Demon Infantry - Demon Heavy Infantry/Bloodfiend: IMO Inferno needs tanks. This could be its tank. The unupgraded version is a tough grunt, neither very fast, nor very enterprising, but capable of dealing and taking a good ammount of damage. The "heavy" upgrade adds more Defense, some Damage and some Stun-like ability. The Bloodfiend should be exactly the opposite - an offensive fighter with improved Speed and Initiative, higher Attack, but lower Defense and some ability with unknown name (hm... "Bloodthirsty"?), which increases the creature's Attack by +1 with every blow it delivers.
Tier 5 - Hellhorse - Oblivion Horse/Hell Charger: basically the same creatures, but the Hell Charger (now upgraded version) could recieve damage bonus, similar to the Paladin's. The Oblivion Horse, on the other hand, loses the Fright Aura and gains the possibility to cast Sorrow at expert level to the attacked creature (50% chance).
Tier 6 - Pit Fiend - Pit Lord/Pit Overseer: the Fiend is the same old figher/caster. The Lord remains the same, but gains the ability to increase its Spell Power by the ammount of the Spell Power of the enemy hero (i.e. anti-mage creature). The Pit Overseer is the old Pit Spawn minus "Magic Proof 50%" and plus the ability to fly.
Tier - 7 Devil - Arch Devil/Soul Devourer: the Devil remains a teleporting bahemoth. The Arch Devil loses the "Summon Pit Lords" ability, but gains "No Enemy Retaliation" and some more offensive power. The Soul Devourer is a weaker version of the Arch Devil when it comes to fighting, but has the ability to summon back those enemy creatures, which it has managed to kill by its own hands so far. I.e. - if a group of 20 Soul Devourers kill 10 Archangels with one strike, it will be able to summon them to their side during the next round (activated ability). If the summoning creature(s) die(s), the summoned disappear too.

Still, I want the Kreegans back!

@xenofex: can't honestly say that i miss them.. oh well, we all have out preferences But interesting nonetheless.

@everybody else: Come now ! Bring your ideas ! What do you want to see ?

Kreegans FTW!!!! One of the best factions ever and the ones in MM didn't make them worse

There are two factions I would like to see in HoMM VI.

Fortress/Swampy faction

No one knows from whence they came. Perhaps they have always been there, perhaps they were human scum, shunned by their fellow villagers for disfigurements and their love of strange magics and beasts, or perhaps they are the remnants of a long gone religion, which the dragon followers almost pushed into extinction. What little is known about them is this:

Locations: Unknown being as the cities easily move from place to place and few explorers return to tell the tales.- Most of them die due to diseases and beasts. There are legends of these tribes in villages close to most big swamps, but surely most of these tales are false.

Kingdom: Non known. We presume they function in independent tribes.

Rulers and political system: Seemingly anarchy with dictatorial traces in some cases, elder counsels and shamans in others. Occasionally a strong leader arises to lead one or several of the tribes in raids and wars against neighbours, but these usually disappear after a short span of time, leaving plagues, infested wounds and nightmares of the unknown beasts from the swamps. Striking back has so far proven pointless, although there are reports of some fire mages devastating entire swamps. It is unknown just how these societies function in times of peace, but Arangil the Mad, of the Griffin Empire, reports of shamans asking spirits, stars and ancestors for advice, and thus governing the people. He also reports of some kind of elder councils which decide, in cooperation with the shamans, how to build, expand and settle, but reports that there are no laws in these societies*. Unfortunately Arangil the Mad is, as the name suggests, insane and most of his information comes from shouting fits and screams while he sleeps.

*It is thought that laws must come into place in states of war, since no army can act without some kind of coordination and punishments. A few historians point out though, that more often than not, the different warlords are killed by their own people.

Religion: Shamanistical in its origin. The Beastmasters believe in the guidance of spirits, the help, advice and reverence of their ancestors and that everything is told and predicted by the stars and that nothing therefore can be changed. Not much else is known about their religion, but it is known that they frown at the dragons as false deities and find it futile to try to change the will of the spirits. Rather they say you must understand and listen to them, but once you have done that you are free to live your own life.

Humanoids: The "humans" are disfigured and, quite frankly, awful to behold. It is not even certain that these beings are humans, but most historians agree that they at least have human origins, but either are formed out of normal disfigurements, or that the swamps, the diseases and the different plants they are thought to live of alter their appearance. Another option is that they disfigure themselves in rituals, since the leaders and shamans are said to be especially disfigured. There are also rumours of hauntingly beautiful swamp people, and sightings of "normally" looking humans in swamp people clothes, but non of these sightings have been confirmed.

Military Order:
The ranks and strenghts of the swamp people are thought to be as follows:

Lvl 1: Gnolls. Doglike humanoids said to descend from old experiments with slaves.- Arangil the Mad has been known to claim, that the Gnolls see themselves as the result of the unhappy love between a powerful, albeit eccentric, wizard and his dog. The wizard in a fit of desperation turned himself into a dog via unknown means, and thereafter forgot to be faithful to his former pet.
Upgrade 1: Gnoll Slave which has more hitpoints and defence.
Upgrade 2: Gnoll Forager which is a wee bit stronger in defence and attack, and has the ability to infest his enemies wounds with dirty and poisonous weapons.

Lvl 2: Rangers (bad name) which are thought to consist of the "normal" humans. These are not as disfigured as other swamp humans, although their heads often have strange forms, their skin is dark and their face and breasts are covered with paintings and objects. These humans favor the bow as their weapon.
Upgrade 1: Spirit Follower which has a higher attack, defence and hitpoints score, and always has good morale.
Upgrade 2: Swamp Sniper which has a higher attack and deals full damage to his opponents, unless they are behind a wall.

Level 3: The Basilisk is a four legged and fearsome creature, which the swamp people under normal circumstances use as a carrier and farm for their meat and milk, but in case of war this creature has moderate stats in most areas and a small chance to turn an opponent into stone.
Upgrade 1: Greater Basilisk which has better stats and a higher possibility to turn a creature into stone, although this possibility still is low.
Upgrade 2: Dark Basilisk which has higher stats and causes it's opponent to slowly bleed to death.


Lvl 4: The Guide of Beasts is one of the humanoids which handles the higher tier beasts, and they often miss a limb or two in addition to their disfigurements. Under normal circumstances their primary object is to build, expand and farm, but they are trained in the arts of war and as a such are fearsome and fast opponents.
Upgrade 1: Master of Beasts which has higher stats and can, depending on how many they are, summon Basilisks or Gorgon to their support.
Upgrade 2: Beastmaster which has higher stats and uses his abilities to poison the claws and teeth of Basilisk, Gorgons and Hydras in their army.

Lvl 5: Gorgons. Cows which somehow have been given scales to survive in the swampy areas. They are farmed for their meat and milk, but the bulls are used in battles due to their strong defence and high number of hitpoints. They ram, kick, bite and tear their opponents asunder.
Upgrade 1: Gorgon Bulls, which have a lot higher defence, hitpoints and attack skills, but otherwise aren't much different except for their more fearsome horns which ensure that at least one creature is killed in each attack.
Upgrade 2: Death Gorgons, which don't have much higher stats but can kill creatures with the stare of their eyes.

Lvl 6: The shamans are thought to be some of the Swamp factions leaders. Wise in the ways of the world, strong with their staff, good sorcerers and so disfigured that it is hard to believe that they have human origins. Most of their magics are attack oriented, and indeed they can shoot and summon an unlimited amount of acid arrows.
Upgrade 1: Nature's Guide which has better staffs and more defence oriented spells in addition to the attack oriented spells of the Shaman.
Upgrade 2: Avenger which has stronger stats, provides the Ranger with acid arrows and deals more damage than Nature's Guide, albeit he has less defence.

Lvl 7: The Hydra is a walking refrigerator for the swamp people due to its massive amounts of food, which it is very hard to open. Only the most seasoned Guide of Beasts is allowed to handle these beasts. In a fight these many headed creatures are a walking tank (even though we in Ashan don't know of tanks). Hydras are tough, deadly and attack 3 squares at the same time, while their multiple heads also assure that no one can retaliate. Their only weakness is that they are slow.
Upgrade 1: The Spirit Hydras are dangerous pets of the shamans. These hydras the swamp people believe to be inhabited by spirits, and maybe this is true, considering that the hydras not only regenerate and are fully healed after each round (although the dead remain dead), but also move exceptionally fast.
Upgrade 2: The Chaos Hydras have more heads, are tougher and deal more damage. No one wants to get close to a Chaos Hydra. Not even a suicidal elf.


Urgh... Will get to my next faction tomorrow.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Justice,

Hm so the Hydra would leave Dungeon? Could work I guess, with the Manticore replacing it. That'd be cool, then the Faceless could be at tier 7. Want the Minotaur too?

Nah, the Minotaur doesn't fit into either of "my" factions, although the former one is loosely based on the Fortress of HoMM III (even so, Hydras have been swamp creatures from the start), and the seccond one is very loosely based on the Barbarians of HoMM II

I want the Hydras

Where do you want them?

Don't know whether you got bored of Minotaur but methinks it is a part of the Universe. Actually, I didn't like that developers made him a <slave> in H5 whereat in H3 he was a mighty creature. Sorry for my reference but in Greek Mythology he only served the labyrinth, otherwise a feared monster. I just can't imagine like 300-400 Minotaurs rushing on the battlefield (2nd, 3rd creatures) In this case, Moragauth, it's good you dropped him out totally. Better no Minotaurs than Minotaur slaves.
But who then lodge and shelter them? I think I'm getting old-fashioned

I also want to express some point about Haven's 7th tier creatures regarding both the Heroes 5 and Dane's suggestion. Sometimes I'm inclined to think that alternative upgrades are an embarrassment rather than a evolving game feature. Like first example; there is a large gap between Archangels and Seraphs (they have the highest rank amongst angels in the First Sphere, whereas Archangels belonged to the Third Sphere) if we referred to Christian angelic hierarchy (in other religions there exist the same gap). Though, by making Seraph red and flaming-like and zealous developers truly defined its real characteristics and did a good work

There are other creatures, like Cherubs (second after Seraphs), who could fit amongst 7th tier creatures. I have no idea for alternatives but a new idea, replacing Angels - Archangels, could be, Cherubim - Seraphim.

And I couldn't imagine good alternatives for Giant upgrades. Giant - Titan, seems to be the best without any scribble and distortion of alternatives. Though, I do agree that some alternatives do really a great job and must be included.

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if some creatures had alternative upgrades and others not, similar to H2 feature where all creatures not necessarily had an upgrade?

I pretty much agree with all that Anju (Tadaeusas) said. The slave minotaur was close to being an insult, the angel stuff sounds reasonable (though I must admit I didn't even know there was an angel hierarchy - I belong to the protestant wing of Christianity), and its not necessary for all creatures to have an alternative upgrade.

I thought Minotaurs could go to Stronghold, or become neutrals, e.g. in a Labyrinth building. I don't think they fit in with Dungeon anymore. Troglodytes are more suited to slavery. Manticores will also be nice at tier 5, perhaps strange hybrids bred by the dark elves and transformed by the Faceless. They'll just need to be bigger and come with alternates and improved stats/abilities.

As for Angels, you'd be surprised about all the mythology surrounding them. However, are not Cherubs little baby angels? Here is a link to information on angels. As well as this.

I don't think Minotaurs fit into the Stronghold faction, but that's probably mostly due to them always having been in zhe Dungeon. They could just revolt and kick the Dark Elves in the rear end or becoem neutrals