That's a great idea, Ignabold. I know there's supposed to be elephant skeletons in an elephant graveyard area.

Live elephants would be awesome to see on rare occasions. Oh well, let's just hope for an enormous high-powered elephant gun, even if we just use it on humans.

Bah, you seen one lion/leopard/hippo/elephant/whatever, you seen em all. I'd rather see African cities... sure they're kinda dirty in some countries, but I think they're underrated, and I'm tired of the stereotypical depiction of the continent. Sorry for the rant

quote:

Originally posted by kimi_:
If carnivores were included, we would need to ensure balancing so that the carnivores don't eat all the herbivores, and we chose to concentrate the efforts in other places.

Eh,...with all due respect, I think you mean they, the devs, chose this. At first they told us it was so the carnivore AI would not conflict with the NPC AI, which didn't make sense either. I get the feeling these are all just excuses that really say they didn't want to put the time and effort into making the game realistic as far as animals go.

If the AI both NPC and herbivore need balancing with the carnivores then they should do just that. At the very least they could script the carnivores in remote areas that both NPC and herbivores do not congregate, make them flee from gunfire and vehicles, and attack only when the odd straggling herbivore and/or player comes their way. That's most of your balancing/AI management right there in a nutshell.

Have typical watering holes and plains for the herbies, and shade tress and caves for the predies. Sure it's not the same as Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom where Joe lion stalks the poor gazelles at the watering hole, but I'll bet that is more often then not the rare scenario only pro photographers catch anyway and so what if we never see it in the game. At least the game would be more realistic just having them there for the player and a few odd wandering herbies to encounter.

I even have the perfect excuse for scripting lions and such to specific spots and only killing within a certain radius of it, a mother protecting her cubs. So what if we don't see male lions and such wandering about. They kill their own cubs at times anyway, rather disgusting sort of. In fact they often kill just to kill rather than to eat. That's it, make all the predies female in behavior. Maybe even make them pink for Kimi,...or maybe not.

God I just realized I made this game sound like Love Bug vs Predator, sorry bout that, poor wording perhaps.

Their reason for not including predator AI has always been the same, just worded slightly differently. Basically what they have said, as I'm sure you're aware, the different sets of AI would conflict and therefore throw out balance. It makes sense to me.

So I guess you could say, yeah, they've thrown it in the "too hard" basket. Which is fair enough with all this other stuff they're giving us. They can't possibly fit all of Africa in a game, that would take forever, but it looks like they're pulling of an awesome attempt at it.

I'd love to see predators too, but as I've said before, someone will make a mod for it in good time.

And the making of such a mod, if it does happen, will be telling as to how truthful their words are as far as too difficult. What I exampled above is a sound compromise to solving such a "problem", which I feel they are glossing over. Also when one says NPCs then carnivores, it means two different things, despite you're making it sound all the same. If you do nothing but rave about what you hear there won't be much to rave about once the game is released.

The same thing happened with Crysis. This is the nature of the game industry as of late, to follow the console fanboy trend and we often get lousy games because of it. This is a bigger issue than many are making it sound. The first thing most think about when the subject of surviving in Africa comes up is the formidable wildlife. Africa is not just about guns, drugs, and herbivores. Without predators it will be severely watered down.

What I don't get is that many such as yourself are agreeing with Ubi that it must be too difficult to pull off such a thing, yet you're so sure a mod with predators will be made. Well if an amature modder can do it why can't they? The only possible answer is they are really giving us a line and that it IS in fact something that can be done and likely not as difficult as they're making it sound.

As I've said before, the proof is in the putting as far as games go. You can take boatloads of hype before release like Crysis had but it doesn't amount to much until the people buying it are really having a good time playing it. CoD4 is way more successful than Crysis, but who would have guessed from the prelaunch hype? Maybe White Gold will be what Far Cry 2 fails to be.

quote:

Originally posted by OU812LP:

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyFlashheart:
You understand what a massive undertaking it would be to create and implement a functional and realistic ecosystem all the way up to carnivore level, yeah? It would be ridiculously cool for sure, but I'd wager that if the developer decided to tackle this challenge, the game would either be postponed for several years, or the actual combat focus would suffer greatly.

Why not? Crysis just pulled it off! Birds, fish, chickens, crabs, turtles, frogs and a ton of AI humans. Okay, so the the animals don't go about the land eating one another and that is just fine with me. So if Crytek can do it, I expect to see a bunch of animals in FC2! And if UBI can't, then so be it and the modders will tackle the job. So stop making excuses for UBI! This is all about getting our moneys worth; don't forget that UBI has track record of releasing games that need lots of work and patches to keep their fans happy. Does SH4 ring a bell?

Crysis was made by EA

quote:

Originally posted by Xero993:

quote:

Originally posted by OU812LP:

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyFlashheart:
You understand what a massive undertaking it would be to create and implement a functional and realistic ecosystem all the way up to carnivore level, yeah? It would be ridiculously cool for sure, but I'd wager that if the developer decided to tackle this challenge, the game would either be postponed for several years, or the actual combat focus would suffer greatly.

Why not? Crysis just pulled it off! Birds, fish, chickens, crabs, turtles, frogs and a ton of AI humans. Okay, so the the animals don't go about the land eating one another and that is just fine with me. So if Crytek can do it, I expect to see a bunch of animals in FC2! And if UBI can't, then so be it and the modders will tackle the job. So stop making excuses for UBI! This is all about getting our moneys worth; don't forget that UBI has track record of releasing games that need lots of work and patches to keep their fans happy. Does SH4 ring a bell?

Crysis was made by EA

Crysis is Published by EA and Developed by Crytek.

Crysis is not a good example in this argument. None of the wildlife are hostile save for the aliens themsleves. STALKER is a far better example, the game's engine just lacked proper optimization but the wildlife AI worked because it was not scripted to be free roaming like the NPC AI.

It's only in mods where the wildlife is unlocked to be free roaming that you run into problems and those problems were mostly with completing quests. Another problem in the mods were lots of NPC AI getting eaten by the predators but this never happens in the stock game where they are restricted to certain areas rather than free roaming.

Ubi is claiming it won't work as if they're trying to lead us to believe the predator AI would have to work exactly the same as the NPC AI. It can operate on the same AI engine yet be different if they'd just take the time to script it to AI paths in specific areas like they did in STALKER. It is clearly an issue of them not wanting to take the time to do it rather than being impossible.

I agree. This isn't all that new. Though scripted and set to certain locations, (turnbased) Jagged Alliance 2 (01/1999) had wildlife which attacked you and NPCs. I realize its not exactlly the samething but it can be done. The question is, would it take too much time which means pushing the release date back and could it take away from the game instead of adding to it.

Yay, jagged alliance 2 ruled.

And don't anyone compare the wildlife of Crysis to FC2, Crysis wildlife (nothing much bigger or complicated than randomly scattering chickens or crabs) is nothing compared to animating and integrating a realistically behaving herd of water bufallo or zebras into the world. Crysis' wildlife is more comparable to putting swarms of insects into a game, easy.

I'm not arguing the point based on just an unwillingness to commit time wise to it, I'm arguing the point mainly on the fact they claim it's not possible due to the predators eating all the NPCs. They really should have just told us they didn't want to take the time to do it rather than all this stuff being said about endangered species and AI imbalance, it all sounds like BS to me.

We've already discussed and seem to agree it's possible without AI imbalance problems. As for the endangered species, how concerned about that could they really be in a game where they play up the fact that you can torch the vegetation in a widespread area which kills the habitat of other species that graze which in turn are prey/food for the predators?

six gun you do know how long stalker development took to make dont you ?
even then they had to take stuff out and the modders finally put it back in after release
ie vehicles ,animal ai,sleeping,dream sequence etc
an example:STALKER will be published by THQ in 2004:
i dont think it did do you, think they missed it by another 3 years

when do u want fc2 2010

no animals..
I know that it will demand god know how much time to configure the game to hold predators
their AI and the balance of the ecosystem to make it real..
But no harm in wishing. maybe it will be in some mod some day. So here goes.
First a look at where we get this urge to have animals from. Yes STALKER. The most scary moment
I had was the first time I was attacked by the pseudo dog at night. The intense hatefull hissing groweling sound combined with the sound of hasty footsteps from paws in the dirt coming at me from somewhere to the right of me made my skin crawl. And the attack itself sent me leaping a foot in the air over my chair. After having reloaded I decided it was best to wait till daytime before approaching again.. still the next time i heard the sound and was unable to immediatly discern the origin of it I just ran away lol.
This "feature" of being hunted when strafing too close to the domains of packs of dogs, monster pigs, pseudodogs and boars living out their lives killing npc's (sometimes ruining my quest if I wasnt fast enough) gave the feeling of being immersed in a living world where anything could happen. And it DID.
ex.: approaching a town I saw a pack of dogs and desided to dodge them on my way in ok no problem. Talking to the guard however gave the quest to rid the town of the pack. Outnumberd I climbed a container and started to pick them off one by one cursing myself for being such a bad shot. Feeling safe ontop of the container I took my time picking the suckers off one by one.
A couple of pseudodogs appeared ran in and started to circle round the container, aah great... payback time. They made a jump or two but then gave up and pressed themselves into the container. I approached the edge to get a better aim and one of them ran back spun round and leapt forward and UP an knocked me down from the container.. the two pseudodogs and the remaining dogs tore me to shreds..
It was one of those rare moments in gaming that we love but forget too easily when it comes to explain exactly why whe love a particluar game despite its flaws and errors.
The random brilliant moments of the AI making the developers day tearing me a new one..

I'd love to hunt animals.

quote:

Originally posted by Urine:
I'd love to hunt animals.

Well then just maybe Ted Nugent Wild Hunting Adventure game is a better fit than Far Cry 2.

The whole game is now full of wild badgers that will attack on sight! Mainly with teeth, just to make it more annoying.

I am sure I can find some dev screenshots to back me up..

I do agree that it would be fun to have wild animals running around, ready to feast on your bits!

(Just a joke! Don't copy & paste me on some blog)

quote:

Originally posted by konradski:
six gun you do know how long stalker development took to make dont you ?
even then they had to take stuff out and the modders finally put it back in after release
ie vehicles ,animal ai,sleeping,dream sequence etc
an example:STALKER will be published by THQ in 2004:
i dont think it did do you, think they missed it by another 3 years

when do u want fc2 2010

Yeah I know STALKER's dev time was way past the deadline, but it was GSC's very first game too. Also, much of that time was spent getting research to make Chernobyl exact and making the engine, which was radical in design for a first effort.

Ubi already has a lot of game/engine making experience and much bigger funding and employee base. Had they thought in holistic terms in the first place, adding predators would not have been such a monumental feat for them as you make it sound.

Where have they ever said it would take too much time? No, instead they gave us a story about endangered species and too many NPCs getting eaten. Both of these excuses I think I've already refuted soundly.

Face it man, the main big names in game making and publishing have become quite the politicians when it comes to feeding us BS excuses to make customers passive to less than acceptable product.

Put in your preorder if you think it will be so great, but I remain skeptical about any release anymore. Lots of games are too short and too unpolished to be worth buying at or before release then waiting months for them to be patched.

Again, let me reiterate since you don't seem to be grabbing my main point. I am not arguing based on timeline, I am arguing based on their difficulty claims, both of which I have given specific and reasonable rebuttals for.

quote:

Face it man, the main big names in game making and publishing have become quite the politicians when it comes to feeding us BS excuses to make customers passive to less than acceptable product.

oooh im facing it
why make the pc your prefferd gaming platform then and buy their product if you dont find them acceptable
i dont find dolly mixture,s acceptable cos there,s too many pink ones n not enough liquirish but i still buy the stuff

quote:

Put in your preorder if you think it will be so great, but I remain skeptical about any release anymore. Lots of games are too short and too unpolished to be worth buying at or before release then waiting months for them to be patched.

why pre order, i have legs ill just go to the shop and physically pick it up ??
dont know about you but since the dawn of pc gaming.
games have never been fully finsished upon release

name me one big title that hasnt got a patche

quote:

Again, let me reiterate since you don't seem to be grabbing my main point. I am not arguing based on timeline, I am arguing based on their difficulty claims, both of which I have given specific and reasonable rebuttals for

well if im at work and the bloke who owns the company filters down .forget the animals guys as were dropping behind on release time
the then pr peeps have to pass this on to us .
im terribly srry but i dont work for ubi so i dont know whats going on internally and my phycic abillitys only stretch so far

plus its a run n gun game so animals or not it will still keep to it main aim
i dont see them as intrinsic to the plot weve so far been given,did you need animals in fc besides the shark mod tht made swimming fun

maim the enemy get the sausage recipe of tanaka mueki then
"get to da chopper"
game over watch credits(well press escape key as fast as possible) then ask your friends on ts who fancys a game of mp fart cry 2.
go bag em to death and winge about bug users

then get some md5checksum error and winge while everyone laughs

its pc gaming at its best

quote:

Originally posted by Raide:
I do agree that it would be fun to have wild animals running around, ready to feast on your bits!

Raide, Raide, Raide...You've let Ubisoft down, the UK down, but most of all...yourself.

There are dangerous animals in the game. Perhaps the most dangerous of all:...man.

quote:

Originally posted by q11q222:

quote:

Originally posted by Raide:
I do agree that it would be fun to have wild animals running around, ready to feast on your bits!

Raide, Raide, Raide...You've let Ubisoft down, the UK down, but most of all...yourself.

There are dangerous animals in the game. Perhaps the most dangerous of all:...man.

Well there will be no feasting on my bits by any man......but a woman, well....