quote:

Originally posted by BadKarma1303:
Bravo for limiting the XML feed info.



I think I was the only one to beg for this, catching a ton of flak from people for it too.

It just takes so much "realism" out of the game. Sooo many times, 360 JSF would have a lead on maps when I went to bed. I'd wake up and the lead would be slimmed, but still there. There would be a flurry of games on all maps in the morning, but when I came home from school or work, I'd find we'd lost leads on a bunch of maps. Once EFEC would around a +50 lead on maps, those maps would become ghost towns. It's impossible to come back from behind once you're down because there are no games to be played.

Think about it. If I want to spearhead a counterattack by assaulting an EFEC territory, they should have no choice but to defend it. What happens in real life if an Army attacks one of your territories and you have no forces there? They plant their flag and then you have to go take it back. That's how it works in real life, but here's how it works in End War thanks to the XML feed:

JSF Commander: "EFEC, prepare to defend yourselves!"

EFEC Commander: "Umm, yeah... now's not really a good time. Thing is, we already have a lead on this map, so we're kinda busy molly-whopping you on a different map... Could you come back tomorrow maybe?"

JSF Commander: "Oh, my bad. Sure, no problem. I'll head over to the only map people are playing on so that I can contribute to your victory."

EFEC Commander: "Thanks dude."

[re-editing previous statement based on feedback]

I see your point, but your statement seems to paint a broad statement that all EFEC immediately avoid games when we have a lead (which is probably inaccurate).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: moxious,

Last I saw EFEC was at 28%, SGB at 27%. I wouldn't be surprised if EFEC numbers had climbed a bit after this (turn 24 or so) due to people jumping ship to the winning team.

quote:

Originally posted by JAGX:
Yea, if it is only two capitals, they should make the total territories higher then. 30 isn't enough...

Also, now that anything below 3 min doesn't count for wins, will the person who tries to cheat and quits out early still get a loss?

I do not agree. When I first played, I lost SEVEN times in a row within three hours. That has significantly changed since I have gotten upgrades.

I understand what you are saying, but when people suck, they suck. When people quit, they quit in seconds. No one is going to wait three minutes at a time to wait. That cuts the time by about 50%, including getting a match.

I do agree though on the idea of increased territories for the win. Russia was barely touched, only touched to the point where Europe had support bases backing them!! Damn scoundrels, electronic warfare can only do sooooo much!!

quote:

Originally posted by moxious:
*YAWN*

Laying ignorant blame on one faction is simply...well, ignorant. It's the same argument that "all EFEC are cheaters." Factions don't cheat, individuals cheat. All factions happen to have cheaters, so therefore cheating happens on all sides.

OR we could stop the diarrhea of the mouth and think about the facts before making statements.

Last I checked, there were 200% more JSF players than there were EFEC. There was also 50% more SGB players then EFEC. At the BEGINNING of the war, JSF and SGB complained that they had long wait times with EFEC (when all factions had equal territory), but at the END of the war suddenly EFEC is simply just avoiding fights. Funny how history re-writes itself. Could it be that EFEC actually still has the least amount of players? I know it's a wild theory, but oh my god, it just might be true.

Next people complain that all EFEC players cheat to win. Hm...could it possibly be, that EFEC actually has good players on their faction too? Could the fact that 7 of the top 10 players are EFEC be any indication? Oh my gosh, maybe they do have better players!

Well, if they had fewer players, but better players, maybe they would have a higher win %. Gee, if they have a higher win % maybe they'll win more maps and therefore win more territory. Oh my god! Could it be that all these are linked??

Or we could just say EFEC avoids game, EFEC are all cheaters and that all other factions make idiotic/ignorant statements.

Dude, you are being way too defensive. Chill for a second. I never, ever, said you guys were cheaters. Nor did I say you guys weren't good. Most of my losses are to EFEC players.

That being said, I 100% stand by my original post because it is 100% true. If you can't admit that then you're kidding yourself.

EFEC IS the best faction when taking into consideration player for player winning percentages. You guys are also highly organized at the highest ranks.

Your skill allows you to take leads and the organization of your best players allows you to make the cognitive decision to abandon one map and concentrate on another. The EFEC players know the XML stats and you sit in certain rooms.

In the mean time, good JSF players like me are sitting in the maps that are still completely winnable for us (less than ~70 point defecit), but can't find a match to save our life. While we're surfing the net waiting for a game, JSF noobs are quick matching right into your rooms cause they have no idea what the hell an XML feed is.

What you're doing is not cheating, you're just using available info and that's cool. But as I said before, if JSF players are waiting to attack a territory, YOU should have to defend it and not simply avoid it. Period. End of story.

The only other alternative is for the devs to somehow limit the percentage of total battles fought on each map. That way the score isn't 5000-3000 on one map and 290-275 on another.

quote:

Originally posted by BadKarma1303:

quote:

Originally posted by moxious:
*YAWN*

Laying ignorant blame on one faction is simply...well, ignorant. It's the same argument that "all EFEC are cheaters." Factions don't cheat, individuals cheat. All factions happen to have cheaters, so therefore cheating happens on all sides.

OR we could stop the diarrhea of the mouth and think about the facts before making statements.

Last I checked, there were 200% more JSF players than there were EFEC. There was also 50% more SGB players then EFEC. At the BEGINNING of the war, JSF and SGB complained that they had long wait times with EFEC (when all factions had equal territory), but at the END of the war suddenly EFEC is simply just avoiding fights. Funny how history re-writes itself. Could it be that EFEC actually still has the least amount of players? I know it's a wild theory, but oh my god, it just might be true.

Next people complain that all EFEC players cheat to win. Hm...could it possibly be, that EFEC actually has good players on their faction too? Could the fact that 7 of the top 10 players are EFEC be any indication? Oh my gosh, maybe they do have better players!

Well, if they had fewer players, but better players, maybe they would have a higher win %. Gee, if they have a higher win % maybe they'll win more maps and therefore win more territory. Oh my god! Could it be that all these are linked??

Or we could just say EFEC avoids game, EFEC are all cheaters and that all other factions make idiotic/ignorant statements.

Dude, you are being way too defensive. Chill for a second. I never, ever, said you guys were cheaters. Nor did I say you guys weren't good. Most of my losses are to EFEC players.

That being said, I 100% stand by my original post because it is 100% true. If you can't admit that then you're kidding yourself.

EFEC IS the best faction when taking into consideration player for player winning percentages. You guys are also highly organized at the highest ranks.

Your skill allows you to take leads and the organization of your best players allows you to make the cognitive decision to abandon one map and concentrate on another. The EFEC players know the XML stats and you sit in certain rooms.

In the mean time, good JSF players like me are sitting in the maps that are still completely winnable for us (less than ~70 point defecit), but can't find a match to save our life. While we're surfing the net waiting for a game, JSF noobs are quick matching right into your rooms cause they have no idea what the hell an XML feed is.

What you're doing is not cheating, you're just using available info and that's cool. But as I said before, if JSF players are waiting to attack a territory, YOU should have to defend it and not simply avoid it. Period. End of story.

The only other alternative is for the devs to somehow limit the percentage of total battles fought on each map. That way the score isn't 5000-3000 on one map and 290-275 on another.

That is a well thought out and well spoken response, and I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

The blanket statment that EFEC is avoiding close fights based on one conversation was a bit misleading.

I apologize if I over-reacted, tired of seeing people complaining or spamming (xxxStalinxxx comes to mind) wild and crazy statements.

are they ever gonna release a 4v4 aspect of this game

I think these new rules will be great. I goto work at 9am eastern time and I would leave the stats on my computer all day. I can recall a day when around 3pm we(JSF)were up like 440 on one map. I checked the score like 2 hours later and we were down 260. I don't care what any EFEC player says, someone(actually some people)did some MAJOR CHEATING!! What took us 12 hours to do was erased in 2 hours!..REALLY? 660 GAMES LOST IN 2 HOURS...BULLSH*T!! So I am really looking foward to a hopefully balanced war.

Also they should put a daily losing limit. That's how you really stop cheating. Lost 7 games and your done till tomorrow!!!
************************************************
************************************************
To the EFEC player with a JSF account with a record of 0-152, do you really suck that bad? Do you get an instant high for losing with another faction's account. Quit being such a shmuck/fag/pu&&y!! (record was like 6 days ago.... I'm sure they've lost a few more since than)

quote:

Originally posted by moxious:
That is a well thought out and well spoken response, and I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

The blanket statment that EFEC is avoiding close fights based on one conversation was a bit misleading.

I apologize if I over-reacted, tired of seeing people complaining or spamming (xxxStalinxxx comes to mind) wild and crazy statements.

Cool. I dont want there to be any misunderstandings about what I'm saying.

No need to apologize either. Defending the honor of your faction is fine by me.

I still think the solution is a server-side decay timer to prevent negative player organization: "stop playing map X, we've won by 20 points, no sense in chancing a loss, and besides they have SUCH and advantage there".

If over time the wins decayed back to neutral 50/50 it would force everyone to play on it, especially if it accelerated when tons of defenders (or attackers) are sitting in the queue, waiting for games and the attackers (or defenders), who have a big lead have just abandoned the map entirely.

For example; the tough maps for one side or the other, you know the maps, the ones with off map support for one side and not the other or DZ terrain advantages. Those maps always have a small number of games. I've sat in, and I know dozens of others who have sat in, those maps for then 20-30 minutes just waiting, while other maps where the other side has an advantage gets games within 1 minute–from SBG perspective, quick games on Grissom, no games on Rondane or Mahilyow.

Personally I'd rather just play the game to have fun so, I'll go for the tougher maps where I have no off-maps or bad DZ but, it gets boring without variety and takes away from the overall experience.

This server-side decay timer would completely take care of it. If your faction has a lead, you have to maintain that lead throughout the entire turn. Constantly pushing, winning more times than not. Or, your lead has to be SO significant that it can overcome the decay-not likely. This would require win/loss stats in game, which they are thankfully enabling in this patch.

As much as I like the idea of devs trying out anti-cheating measures I'm not that happy about the 3 minute time limit. It means that some of us will actually have to slow ourselves down in assault. Though if you are good enough to win under three minutes dragging it out beyond three minutes shouldn't be that big a issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Fatebane:
As much as I like the idea of devs trying out anti-cheating measures I'm not that happy about the 3 minute time limit. It means that some of us will actually have to slow ourselves down in assault. Though if you are good enough to win under three minutes dragging it out beyond three minutes shouldn't be that big a issue.

Assaults are fast starting, someone sees you stat beating them in a minute and they leave...this is nothing but fluff they put out so they couldn't be accused of inaction, it's the simplest fix that will cause more problems then it fixes...instead of actually working on a system more imaginative then a 10 year old could come up with, we got this...

I'm not convinced the covering up of TOW numbers was for any reason to to hide the cheating this will not fix.

quote:

Originally posted by b_4721:

Assaults are fast starting, someone sees you stat beating them in a minute and they leave...this is nothing but fluff they put out so they couldn't be accused of inaction, it's the simplest fix that will cause more problems then it fixes...instead of actually working on a system more imaginative then a 10 year old could come up with, we got this...

I'm not convinced the covering up of TOW numbers was for any reason to to hide the cheating this will not fix.

I'll agree that this is nothing but a stopgap till something better comes along but it shouldn't be that hard to deal with for now.

I would rather see it be a 1:30 though.

For cheating.. you guys should put up a system that if a player does not kill any enemie units for 3 mins he will be kicked.. because I'm tired of people from other factions creating new accounts and make them win! That's the only reason they won. (also jsf kids). Please add that to the patch if you can. Thanks

yea i can really see me not getting much wins now that they can just quit in 3 and it not count at all.98% of my games are 9mins and under, i go for the majority of the links quickly and almost always have them under 3. so that means that for about half the game this guy can just quit and waste my time. i could give a hoot about the tow i just want to have choices in battle modes and maps and it be bug free, i dont care which faction wins just that i can play and have a chance to win.

at first this looked like a good idea now i can see that it is going to make this game completely pointless.

quote:

Originally posted by BadKarma1303:
What you're doing is not cheating, you're just using available info and that's cool. But as I said before, if JSF players are waiting to attack a territory, YOU should have to defend it and not simply avoid it. Period. End of story.

I agree with what you are saying, people shouldn't really be able to avoid matches when they are ahead. There is, in my opinion, no way to stop it though. The last time I checked JSF had 44% of the playerbase and EFEC had 28% of the playerbase. Keep these stats in mind. You cannot force players to play on maps that they don't want to play on. If players feel like they are being forced and have even less control and feel even more limited with the ToW maps as they already do they will just stop playing altogether.

Whereas, yes, there is the fact that in real life if a defending force is not there to repel an attacking force then they take the territory. This would work out, in ToW terms, as a win per game that is not matched by the defending faction. Now this is where the stats come into it (yes I know I entered them at the wrong part of the post). Say if the EFEC were in the position they were a number of turns ago and they had dominated the USA and JSF only had two maps to play off and therefore are attacking two EFEC territories. In the meantime the EFEC have to fight Russia at one map in the USA and for the sake of it lets say 2 maps more on the Eastern Front. This means that 44% of the playerbase is fighting over two territories, and EFEC's 28% are playing over 5 territories and therefore there is noway the EFEC is going to be able to match all of the players that want to fight against them. Now if the defenders took a loss for every attacker that had to wait, lets say 15 minutes, for a game then the EFEC are going to be penalised serverly and targeted by the ToW system. This would cause players of this faction to feel like they are being singled out and become frustrated with the game mechanics even more than people are now. This would also give a major advantage to the biggest faction and wars would be more likely to be won on numbers rather than skill levels.

My point is that I feel that this is the lesser of about 10 evils, this is a bit of lose/ose situation for the Devs as they want to strike a balance between freedom of play and fair play. I do beleive that the sizes of factions and their positions in the war plays more part in people picking and choosing which maps to avoid collectively. I know the top EFEC players pick which maps to play as a group and try to get losing maps into a winning margin, and that won't change by switching to percentages by the way, but they don't control the rest of the 800 EFEC players.

There are also things like 'rush hours' and time zones to keep in mind that play a massive factor in when people are going to be able to play.

I don't know if I have put my point across clearly here or misunderstood any of your posts as I'm very tired and just churned it out, so give me some feedback if I am just being confusing, thank ya.

Cheating exists. SGB showed their hand early in ToW. EFEC + JSF cheaters focused on the leading SGB in early ToW. Here's a little math I recorded the time it took to get 10 losses twice in DC. 1: (5:23min)2: (7:15min). I rounded to 6min. 60 minutes divided by 6 multiplied by 10 equals 100 potential losses for DC.(60/6)(10)=100.

Reason why we never took DC was because certain individuals in both efec and jsf did not like the idea of us taking the capital so they created dummy accounts like this fool who posted in our SGB thread.

"
Originally posted by insane521:

quote:
Originally posted by BerserkNurple:
ay guys i got this amazing strat for all our maps....

1.ok ok so at the beginning you make NOTHING BUT GUNSHIPS (DO NOT TAKE ANY UPLINKS)

2. make sure all of your CP is spent on gunships and you cant buy anything else!

3. THIS IS CRUCIAL: send ALL OF YOUR GUNSHIPS AT THE NEAREST (or largest) group of TRANSPORTS you can find.

4. avoid all tanks and artillery

5. TRUST ME THIS WORKS its amazing

insane521:

WOW your so cool, what faction do you belong to eh?

BerserkNurple:

duh im russian im trying to show you my super good strategy"

He also stated
"no but it only works if you are SGB i dont know why just do it. ESPECIALLY on maps that are important"

Possible reason why america fell so quickly was this time SGB and EFEC cheaters gained up on JSF.

Possible reason why EFEC pushed Russia out & Russian started taking ground back with Jsf knocked out jsf cheaters would either A: switch faction or B: just wait for the next war and conceit defeat C: continue their ways(If i did do this and I only had the capital Id give up would you?). Then SGB and EFEC cheaters canceled each other out giving the last few days of ToW true endwar playing.

Cheating existed in the territories that had the most fighting,"ESPECIALLY on maps that are important"(BerserkNurple,SGB Thread, Page 6, Wed December 03 2008 17:49) In places that battles were slow or non-existent show true battle percentages. percentages gained from populated territory are unreliable and fraudulent.

A simple daily loss limit of 15 for each territory for a day would solve any cheaters who use dummy accounts like
BerserkNurple.

If any dev see's this, a filter for the leader boards should be created to see the stats from worst to best or " top worst players. So we could report and ban obvious cheaters. Also see true influence of cheaters.

To Anybody who thinks interverence from Ubisoft is wrong. I don't know what to tell you. They should police this game.

My words are based on that cheating is a widespread problem but will always have two faction ganging on one till there two where it cancels each other out and the true war begins.

Also it may seem there hiding matches that well that also can be true. But personally delaying the Xml feed will be good I generally miss the days I didn't know about supad.net or its duplicate site out there.

Now for all Naysayer's and or people who feel like they herd enough the burden of proof is now on you. Can anyone on this forum prove to me cheating doesn't exist and or doesn't have a heavy influence? Can anyone? I have provided 1 such cheater BerserkNurple and could find many more with an adjustment to the leader boards to see the worst players . If people complain on a forum its really not meant for you unless addressed to you but for the devs and hopefully they'll do something.

I don't know if the 3 min time would stop BerserkNurple particular manipulation to help their real faction.

Do you not know how to take a joke.

For the cheating issue I've already posted about many times but it's my opinion that the cheaters are balancing themselves out so cheating didn't have as much effect as people are going on about. If we had people watching the XML at all times we most likely would have found that both sides had periods were their scores went though the roof.

I do not think that the cheating is exclusive to one faction or another.

We (Russia) assaulted DC five times during the war. Three of those times I went to bed and the XML gave Russia a huge lead. I would wake up to a defeat. Now, could this just be an unlucky turn of events? Yes, that is not out of the question. However, the frequency of our losses begs the question. Is there another factor at work?

The first loss was a close one, so was the second, but around that time the first topics on the dupe accounts were coming out. The final three battles were the ones I refered to earlier. How was a 100+ match deficit made up in an hour?

My guess is by the time Europe hit DC, they were too upgraded and organized for the cheaters to counter. The final spread (from studying EFEC past performance) should have been greater.

Then again, I could be wrong. What do you guys think?

quote:

Originally posted by Cross1979:
Also u say a 3min timer is going to prevent cheating how about when a player gets beat bad a few times by another player then is like im not playing him anymore but u get matched with him again so now all u have to do is leave and it wont count as a lose for your faction seems like it will open up a new world of cheating not prevent it

put them on your avoid list.

I just want my matches that people quit and turn the power off count as wins. I only had to turn the power off once because my teammate had to leave. (seriously who joins a game if you know your going to leave within 5 min) I went so far as to send a message to the two opposing commanders for what happened. So far ive counted a total of 16 times people quit and I dont get the win. Which I dont even know if that counts towards the TOW at all then.

We will see how big of an impact cheaters had on the ToW when the next war starts up. Who knows cheates might have had a big effect and every ones anger is justifed or people are just using cheaters as an excuse for losing to the most under populated fraction