Knife in scpt..... [Archive]

XyZspineZyX

10-25-2003, 04:33 PM

i guess if u can only stab them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

slitting the throats will leave a very bloodly trail /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX

10-25-2003, 06:24 PM

Stabbing them would leave a far bloodier trail, and it is less silent and deadly.

XyZspineZyX

10-25-2003, 06:26 PM

well not as much as slitting their throats try playing hitman2 and ull see a much difference /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif from stabbing someone and slitting a persons throat /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Message Edited on 10/25/03 02:28PM by mp3vd

Message Edited on 10/25/0302:29PM by mp3vd

XyZspineZyX

10-25-2003, 06:48 PM

If you could stab them or slit their throats it would probably be rated M.

XyZspineZyX

10-25-2003, 06:51 PM

slitting their thoats for sure will make it M, but if its a small stab who knows /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX

10-25-2003, 06:57 PM

well, maybe Sam would use it to cut security wires on cameras or something.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX

10-26-2003, 04:44 AM

Well, this has been discussed in depth, but I'm still sort of up in the air with the issue myself. While a knife can be faster and quieter than other means of killing, there's really not a big point of it, since you've got other means that sort of accomplish the same result.

As to the amount of blood, that's obviously a moot point, since NO blood is really modelled in Splinter Cell, so a knife wound would be the same. Little red puffs when you shoot someone isn't exactly what would happen when a target's head explodes at 50 yards when you penetrate the cranal cavity. Since the actual brain cavity is completely sealed and pressurized, it's the only part of the human body that will literally explode when punctured (I've heard it's a bit like a watermellon...). A pool of blood on the floor from a slit throat is cleaner than blood and brain matter spattered over a fifteen foot radius, including the floor, walls, and ceiling. Now THAT would be rated M! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX

10-26-2003, 04:17 PM

well i was thinking of throwing the knife to an enemy in the throat /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif but yeah you could also cut wires with it... never thought of that myself......

i hope i can play pandora tomorrow very soon....

XyZspineZyX

10-26-2003, 05:31 PM

I want a knife... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 08:02 AM

people, sliting someones throat, it doesent leave alot of mess, all of them a males right, so if u slit their Adams Apple it only leaves a little blodd and cut there air suplly, thats what the army gets tought.
I think it would be the perfect weapon for stealth.

XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 09:12 AM

Yeah, the Knife itself is silent, but the victim might scream, unless you get him in the exact spot, which is pretty hard. Even if you cover their mouth, sound still escapes, maybe not a big deal when they are alone, but say it was in the Presidential palace in SC, at the room with the 4 guys, they would probably hear it unless one of them farted real loud at the same time.

But still, a knife would be cool because I would like a way of Killing them without a gun, not just knocking them out. Neck breaking or something.

Message Edited on 10/27/0306:14PM by Yoda89

XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 09:16 AM

Tell me more about this head explosion thing....it's quite interesting!

XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 11:51 AM

How about using the sticky shocker in hand-to-hand combat, it's silent, clean and very effective.

XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 01:13 PM

instead,how about a garrote/piano wire ALA hitman?

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 01:14 PM

PittBull33 wrote:
- I want a knife...

i wouldn't trust you with a knife

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 01:14 PM

Shadowofrevenge wrote:
- How about using the sticky shocker in hand-to-hand
- combat, it's silent, clean and very effective.
-
-

why not just shoot them with a stickyshocker /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 01:55 PM

true

but what about the garrote???

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 07:31 PM

A but to the head is the most effective way, the knife would be a nice add-on...

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 08:19 PM

godnp wrote:
- instead,how about a garrote/piano wire ALA hitman?
-
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ahh finally someone mentions piano wire /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif id prefer piano wire over a knife anyday /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 03:26 AM

if 47 can do it,why can't sam?

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 07:12 AM

Because you have to have those handles otherwise you will hurt your hands or the wire will slip, and a knife is better for same, since it is smaller and kills quicker.

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 10:42 AM

u trying to say Sam cant do that???
eeps!

if you played hitman properly, you know that the piano wire is better than the knife altho the knife is cool

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 09:50 PM

if you slice the back of the neck, in the spinal cord, it is very clean and silent

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 10:01 PM

HaloCell wrote:
- if you slice the back of the neck, in the spinal
- cord, it is very clean and silent
-
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that would make it rated M and we wouldnt want that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 05:29 AM

godnp, I think a piano wire thing is a bit too brutal for Sam's style. That's more the premeditated kill of an assassin, not a weapon to be used as a last resort.

So, assuming any blood effects could be turned off, a knife kill would still need a higher rating than gun killings? Odd. And of course there's still a chance for a muffled scream or gurgle, but it'd still be quieter than your gun going off (suppressed does not mean silent). And people can groan when you knock them out as well. I personally think Sam should keep holding them when he knocks them out and then gently lay them on the ground. When the guy watching the laser grid computer in the lobby of the Ministry of Defense hits that marble floor, the thud actually resonates!

And dw91, that's all I know... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 07:28 AM

Sams weapons need to be practical, and wires that might cut his hand won't be good, and if he has handles for them, they will rattle and clank. Face it, the knife will be a better weapon, since it will kill them quicker, comes in a convient holster which prevents jangling, and he cat cut wires and other things with it, which garroting wires cannot.

Message Edited on 10/29/0304:29PM by Yoda89

XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 02:10 PM

rikakiah's argument was sound but urs is...
STRANGE???

practical???
the piano wire is not used to cut ppl's necks off -just strangle 'em
play Hitman n u'll know
and the day Sam cuts his hands on a piano wire instead of strangling someone, that day i shall give up SC and throw away my computer
and why can piano wire be kept in a nice pocket?
why do you even need handles???
and what do you think sam'll cut with his knife????
Splinter cell is a GREAT game but ITS NOT REAL
and neither is hitman
eeps man!
plz think before you post and sorry if you're offended

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XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 04:10 PM

wers all the big boys gone?
buncha ams.
oh winsk is there haha

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XyZspineZyX

10-30-2003, 02:31 PM

...I see you are not getting the point. Everybody knows what piano wires are used for, garroting. The wire not only strangles them, it cuts their neck and might sever the blood vessels in their neck, if it is small enough and if the user pulls hard enough. If he only has the wires, they will slip through his hands because he is pulling so hard, unless he winds them around his fingers, in which he will cut his fingers unless he is wearing gloves. So he would need handles like was in Hitman 1 to make sure he don't cut his fingers and that the wire doesn't slip from his hand.

Now, THINK. what would be better, having a knife you could just pull out and stab someone with in the lungs/heart/neck and killing them maybe instantly if not very quick, or taking out piano wire, which you will have to fiddle with to get it straight to garrot the guy with , and he will probably scream/cough really loud when you start it, and if he turns around, you're screwed, since you can't do anything to him to the front with a wire, but with a knife, you can just stab him, since we have the convienient long health meter. And what do you mean what will he cut? I just said it, maybe if you would read it. HE could cut things like wires or cables or stuff like that who knows. but you can't cut stuff with Piano wire.

XyZspineZyX

11-09-2003, 08:29 PM

still even just stabbing them would leave to much blood be steathy

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XyZspineZyX

11-11-2003, 01:52 AM

But blood in this game is a non-issue. At least stab wounds tend to pool in one place-bullet wounds usually splatter everywhere around the victim, as well as possibly leaving a hole in the wall behind him (the Five-seveN may not, but the F2000 probably will).

XyZspineZyX

11-11-2003, 03:48 AM

To start with you can't knock someone on the back of the head with your elbow yopu would probably crack you elbow bone. and you weouldn't want to do it the but of a gun because it could easily go off. with your fist it would cain.
A knife is much better, professionals use a knife becasue if you knock em' out the can just wake up bye themselves at any time... A knife kills it is silent. and so what if the find out there is a body there. It is dum because people can't just come out of thin air so who is going to find them if they are all dead? A knife is the best.

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XyZspineZyX

11-12-2003, 02:04 AM

Well, not to experienced with actually knocking people out, but I can definitely attest to the fact that the elbow is a very powerful and tough weapon. Depending on point of impact, though, I'd imagine Sam would probably be causing permanent damage to some of these people, possibly even killing a few of them. A blunt object (ie bone) can kill on the side of the neck, temple, and possibly above the ear. Hitting hard enough at the base of the skull on the neck can cause spinal damage.

But also in the game, a knocked out person stays asleep for the duration of the mission (5 minutes to 2 hours). Most likely, the target would wake up within 10 minutes, sooner under less favorable conditions like rain, etc. I think that should've been worked into the game-would've made things more interesting.

XyZspineZyX

11-12-2003, 09:07 PM

i relate to the point about no blood.... it seems uneccesary for the game, its supposed to be fun not realistic! lets face it the whole game is total fiction, would MI5 or the NSA send in one man to take out a whole building, no way, they'd send an SAS unit in or alike. so the idea of not have to elbow strike everyone sounds a bit refreshing.... plus u could have throwing knives for short range targets, much less noise than a gun, even a silenced, lightwieght, 5.56mm pee shooter!!!

XyZspineZyX

11-12-2003, 10:16 PM

amcnab wrote:
- it seems
- uneccesary for the game, its supposed to be fun not
- realistic!

its fun and realistic. all stuff is actual equipment or stuff that will be developed in the near future

P.S. slicing tha back of the neck is silent, realtively bloodless, and instant.

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XyZspineZyX

11-13-2003, 10:25 AM

Its supposed to be realistic.

You seem to miss the point of the game. The point is not to neutrilize a building, other wise they would send in Delta Force or something. They are gathering intelligence. They are supposed to do it with the least amount of attention possible, so that people don't know he is there so they don't know that their plans are known.

XyZspineZyX

11-13-2003, 12:14 PM

I agree to the post above.

I would like the enemy to a have a knife as a weapon. All enemies in SC uses guns. I'd like to have intelligent AI too like, whenever an enemy is very close to Sam, they'd use a knife instead of a gun. The knife is more deadlier in close range.

Instead of a knife, Sam should have an expandable baton (used by law enforcement, bodyguards, etc) as a knife neutralizer.

XyZspineZyX

11-14-2003, 05:14 AM

To further add to Yoda's point, one person is MUCH easier to remain concealed than an entire team. The ability to take out the entire building (and thus lead to your seemingly valid argument) is a deficiency of the AI and/or programming-not of the actual mission objective or style of the game. Personally, I think there should be more restrictions on how many people can get touched (KO'd or killed), how many times people can even get suspicious ("there's something in the shadows!"), and DEFINITELY how many alarms can get raised (ie NONE). Heck, even how many bullet holes you leave in walls from shooting lights (bottles can still be used as that just points to vandals, not an elite espionage agent). Make THAT the hard difficulty, not healthpoints-I've yet to need a med-kit even on hard, so the game's really no different regardless of "difficulty"...

I'm thinking with the promise of more civilians in PT, it will become more necessary to sneak instead of engage, but who knows...

XyZspineZyX

11-14-2003, 12:25 PM

Yeah, an extendable baton would be cool. Leaves less messy trail. And if Sam ever needs too, he could break through windows.

XyZspineZyX

11-16-2003, 01:33 AM

actually if you stab them and leave the knife in until the bodie is hidden it's relatively bloodless because the blade plugs the wound. if sam stabbed the character in the lung heart or neck he could drag them into the shadows and leave them there to bleed out.

XyZspineZyX

11-16-2003, 06:30 AM

dude yall know **COUGH COUGH** waaaaay too much about killing ppl with **COUGH COUGH** piano wire for your own good..*runs in terror*

waffles man...big honkin waffles...

..tasty /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX

11-29-2003, 06:14 AM

Heh. It's quite disturbing how we can all discuss various ways of killing people swiftly and silently. Continued exposure to violence does desensitize, neh?

Well, we're looking at killing people silently, right? Hmm...

Let's start from behind someone. If Sam's got them in the chokehold, I suppose he could just pull the trigger and blow their head off, but that'd be messy. Very messy. Kinda noisy.

Snapping neck is noisy.

Chokehold takes a little bit, can be noisy (drumming their heels on the ground, gurgling and everything), and smelly (when their bowels let go).

Knife in the kidney, or the brain via the ear canal or the space between the base of the skull and the spine would be pretty good, though.

Garrote would work well too. You throw the loop over their head, turn 180 degrees, and bend at the waist to lift them off their feet. Gravity works for you, and they can't fight you because they've got no leverage.

Beyond that? I dunno. You're getting into exotic things like poisons and whatnot...

ALSO, someone mentioned that they thought that Sam's FN FiveseveN wouldn't overpenetrate if he shot someone in the head. Not sure about that. The 5.7mm is the same round they use in the P90. It's a small bottleneck round, FMJ, designed to punch through body armour. Could be that it wouldn't overpenetrate if it's loaded for subsonic, but geez... then it's really no better than a .22, which is, incidentally, a weapon of choice amongst assassins, along with the .25 and .32 rounds. The only thing that the 5.7 really has going for it are its armour penetrating characteristics and its relatively high ammo capacity relative to other rounds. People usually use a double, or even triple-tap when shooting people in the head with a .22, simply because the .22 just doesn't cause very much tissue damage, and it's conceivable that someone might survive a single round in the head.

XyZspineZyX

11-29-2003, 07:52 AM

The advantage of the 5.7 (so FN claims), is that while it will penetrate body armor, it still tumbles in soft tissue, creating massive internal damage while lessinging the chance for overpenetration as it transfers most of its energy into the target. In reality? Probably depends on a lot of variables...

XyZspineZyX

11-29-2003, 11:22 AM

Hmm... Like you said, lots of variables. A lot of AP bullets will tumble on their own after already having gone through body armour. I read an article in Blue Line about a manufacturer promoting their composite-ceramic trauma plates, and they claimed that in some ways, it was in fact safer to be hit by a rifle round while not wearing soft body armour than it was be to get hit while wearing armour. The reason they gave was that if you're hit while wearing the armour, the bullet will penetrate anyway, but the passage through the armour will warp the bullet and change its course, making it more likely that it will take a more circuitous route leaving the body, if it leaves at all. Hit by a FMJ round while wearing no armour, the bullet will tend to pass straight through the body, leaving a relatively small wound channel in its wake UNLESS it hits bone or some other obstruction.

I'm not totally convinced, though. My mom is a nurse, and recently undertook a rural nursing course. I glanced through the books, and stumbled across a section that dealt with bullet wound characteristics and management. Relatively low-velocity FMJ pistol bullets will simply pass through the body if they don't hit any big obstacles without causing many major complications. Someone hit by a relatively high-velocity FMJ rifle round is in more serious trouble, though. Even if the bullet travels straight through the body, hydrostatic shock can cause serious internal injuries. Organs not in the path of the bullet can still be damaged or even ruptured simply because of the compression of the body's fluids...

Back to the matter at hand. FN's claim about their 5.7mm rounds is probably true. I mean, the US used (uses?) 5.56mm "tumbler" rounds in the M-16. No reason you can't do the same thing for other rounds.

XyZspineZyX

11-30-2003, 05:08 AM

I like your first paragraph-basically danged if you do, danged if you don't about armor, no? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif A friend of mine loads alternating AP/hollowpoints-person's wearing armor, AP gets him; person's not wearing armor, hollowpoint gets him. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But the US had a few reported problems of overpenetration with their rifle rounds (still 5.56mm) in one of their recent confilcts. The round went clean through with a very small permanent wound channel (no tumbling) and little cavitational damage (the high speed effect you were talking about). I'd imagine they were probably using AP rounds...

Ballistics and bullet wounds are VERY strange-expected results don't always happen. All you can do is empty the clip and hope one of them penetrated a major artery or ruptured a vital organ. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But from what I know, I'd say the 5.7mm is a very formidable round-it's basically just a little fatter than the 5.56mm and about as fast...from a pistol...