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XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 02:40 AM
The US (Maybe britain too) vs the better half of europe.

The signs are their, you may think im crazy, but it is a war that will happen eventually.

France and Germany are growing weary of needing the US in thier countrys because of nato.

Russia, may be on the US side since Europe is becoming a bit more self sufficient. I saw something about this somewhere else, i forgot but it made me think.

Anything to add? comments or corrections?

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/alpha.jpg
The Roosters, http://318th.2ya.com

"Keep taking the pills...fruitcake."-dogpig

If i had a nickel for every ho, ghetto wanna be, goth, enviro-**** and crackhead in my school I'd have 17.695 billion dollars. Including the price paid on every bag of drugs they sell. May God help us all... (half a cent would go to Taxes, or maybe Texas)

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 02:40 AM
The US (Maybe britain too) vs the better half of europe.

The signs are their, you may think im crazy, but it is a war that will happen eventually.

France and Germany are growing weary of needing the US in thier countrys because of nato.

Russia, may be on the US side since Europe is becoming a bit more self sufficient. I saw something about this somewhere else, i forgot but it made me think.

Anything to add? comments or corrections?

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/alpha.jpg
The Roosters, http://318th.2ya.com

"Keep taking the pills...fruitcake."-dogpig

If i had a nickel for every ho, ghetto wanna be, goth, enviro-**** and crackhead in my school I'd have 17.695 billion dollars. Including the price paid on every bag of drugs they sell. May God help us all... (half a cent would go to Taxes, or maybe Texas)

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 02:58 AM
aaaahhhh no.


france is just going to remain that stupid little country that exports some high-tech military stuff to countries america or britian will most likely find themselves fighting with. Germany just seems to like everyone and they don't go to war with to many people/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif funny how that works.


I think if anything a long drawn out war on terrorism that we are fighting now will just broaden and someone will screw up somewhere and we will find ourselves in another country killing people. Mean while economy goes to crap which is about the only thing they(greedy crazy islamic terrorist guys) want in the first place.


O and along the way a few more 9/11s.

then some country like germany or france comes along and takes the US place and everyone hates them.



http://www.global-vision.org/interview/intergifs/scream.gif


"Our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, provided the madness is given us by divine gift.."- Plato

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 02:59 AM
And in light of the recent unanimous vote in the UN regarding rebuilding Iraq...

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:15 AM
The US might start it after some crazy leftist says that france germany and so forth reuined our economy by not helping us a few countrys down the road.

Korea was more of a WW3 This would be WW4

Thank god for the 3 branches of government and that checks and balances crap. but still, it COULD happen. anmd eventually will

Hey, let's not tell the next generation about this so we can laugh at them while we all die from nuclear weapons!

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/alpha.jpg
The Roosters, http://318th.2ya.com

"Keep taking the pills...fruitcake."-dogpig

If i had a nickel for every ho, ghetto wanna be, goth, enviro-**** and crackhead in my school I'd have 17.695 billion dollars. Including the price paid on every bag of drugs they sell. May God help us all... (half a cent would go to Taxes, or maybe Texas)

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:20 AM
Well, strangely enough, as much criticism as the whole oil thing is, the left wants to loan the money needed for the rebuilding of iraq to be paid back by oil money... sometimes it's hard to figure out where they stand on the issues...

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:21 AM
humm I want to see a war in korea. Would actually be very interesting.

A shooting war with the US? HAHAHA

We would send them with their tails between their legs in a about 2 months.


http://www.global-vision.org/interview/intergifs/scream.gif


"Our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, provided the madness is given us by divine gift.."- Plato

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:23 AM
Wrong dg, you forget we've already fought Korea, and we didn't send them running with their tails between the legs the first time, doubt we'll do it this time either. Also, we'll definitely need more time to rebuild our military from the downsizing it got during the Clinton years, don't think we are at the peak of our abilities right now, it's improving since Clinton's ousting, but still not where we were during the first Gulf War.

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:28 AM
we have a VERY different army from the 1950s demon.

They could really do a LOT of dammage to the units that are there right now, but after we get our troops in place say goodbye to the northkoreans. Sort of like the first one/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif except the asskicking when we get our boys there is going to be even better.

but forget about china bailing them out again.




http://www.global-vision.org/interview/intergifs/scream.gif


"Our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, provided the madness is given us by divine gift.."- Plato

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:37 AM
Hey, their army is quite different from the one in 1950's too. I'm not saying we will lose, but we won't be "sending them running" like you suggested, they have a good number of combatants and they do have weapons such as ballistic missiles and such. Now, the threat of nuclear weapons is in the picture too. They will not be a pushover like Iraq, trust me.

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:47 AM
Oh, I believe we would send them running. It would just take more time, and a few more casulties than Iraq did.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:50 AM
yeah Iraq was a push over.

Mainly because not to many people wanted to fight.

Think about it. Over 100 brits that have served in iraq have commited sucide./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif So that 24 that have died through hostil fire doesn't seem to much.

Or the few hundred americans that have died.



http://www.global-vision.org/interview/intergifs/scream.gif


"Our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, provided the madness is given us by divine gift.."- Plato

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:50 AM
Hey, I think we will win too, but think "send them running with their tails between their legs" is a bit too optimistic, especially with our military not being at full capacity. Our military during the Gulf War would probably get closer to "sending them running" than our military now, I think.

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:55 AM
I don't think stating that we'd "send them running with their tails between their legs" is optimistic, as long as one doesn't think this will happen as fast as it has in Iraq. It'd happen after a period of time.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 04:07 AM
AlphaDelta219 wrote:
- The US (Maybe britain too) vs the better half of
- europe.
-
- The signs are their, you may think im crazy, but it
- is a war that will happen eventually.
-
- [...]
-
- Anything to add? comments or corrections?
-

Yeah. I think you're crazy.

http://members.shaw.ca/cuski4678/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:05 AM
Those 10,000 pieces of artillery and missle launchers wihtin firing range of the DMZ and Seoul seem like a pretty big problem. Especially the ones in dug in positions capable of firing without being that exposed. Also the situation could get much more complicated. Such as the Chinese sending carriers to Taiwan, using their vast container ship assets and military assault ships to provide troops to land on Taiwan. Who'll get the majority of help first, the Koreans or the citizens of Taiwan.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:09 AM
Don't worry, a few GPS guided hellfire missiles launched from an Army gunship will fix all that. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif j/k, that is a good point about Taiwan though, did they officially state that they will do something like that? Or is it an idea thought up by military analysts of the USA? Cause that would... suck, to put it crudely.

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:14 AM
Well at the present time China is training pilots from the PLAN to land anf take off from carriers. It also doesn't help that the Chinese have stated that if Taiwan ever declares independence they will unify the nation by force. As of right now it's very unlikely China could pull off such a complex amphibious landing. It's just kind of a thought I've been having thought of the Chinese using planned or unplanned action from North Korea as an oppurtunity to unify China.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:19 AM
Well, perhaps China will develop some uber GPS guided ICBM or something, (or do they already have them?) using the supercomputers Clinton sold them. Oh, no good can come of that...

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:28 AM
Demon_Mustang wrote:
- Well, perhaps China will develop some uber GPS
- guided ICBM or something

Well, they'd first need a GPS up there. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:28 AM
your assesment of Russia is wrong, Russia is more likely to go with the EU (tradional allies from the monarchy days) than with the US. but US would never go to war with EU, economic competition- sure, but not a military conflict.

_______________________________________

"Generals dont run; during peace this prompts laughter, during war this prompts panic."

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:31 AM
Well they got a whole load of stuff. Since they supposedly got designs for the MIRV's we use on our Minuteman missles. Then there's some of the tech sharing that occurred from companies getting tired of their satellites blowing up a few hundred feet above the launch pads, fortunately for them the technology was likely dual use.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:35 AM
Well, a lot of the "dual use" satellites are military satellites dubbed "dual use" so Clinton can send them up using Chinese rockets. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif They didn't call him Slick Willy only because of his extramarrital affairs you know. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:47 AM
Now lets just hope that the Chinese don't buy the Russian version of the space. Since it is fully capable of carrying nuclear weapons into space.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:50 AM
You think "Goldeneye" really exists? Not exactly like the movie of course, but similar weapons launched from space, although some people have speculated that the whole EM radiation weapon like in the movie really existed. But as of now, it's all conspiracy theories or rumors. Know anything specific about this?

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:54 AM
I don't have any knowledge even though something like that would probably pose a large danger to any friendly satellites which wouldn't make it too effective. If anything was likely to be in space it probably would be some kineic based weapon for knocking out satellites with small high speed ball bearings.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 06:14 AM
focused microwaves??

Sorry, ball bearings isn't fancy enough for me, at LEAST microwaves?? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 04:40 PM
disgruntled_god wrote:
- Think about it. Over 100 brits that have served in
- iraq have commited sucide

Where did you read that???

The only report I've seen said that 9 US soldiers and 2 Marines had committed suicide

X Fire


War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

John Stuart Mill, 1861

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:16 PM
AlphaDelta219 wrote:
- Korea was more of a WW3 This would be WW4



I have a sneaking suspicion that WW4 will be fought with sticks and rocks.



Message Edited on 10/18/0303:59PM by Cowanchicken

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 07:37 PM
I got it off a site that was against any wars. They probly twisted their statistics or flat out lied if what you got is true.

http://www.global-vision.org/interview/intergifs/scream.gif


"Our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, provided the madness is given us by divine gift.."- Plato

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 08:48 PM
eventually Russia might get really fed up with the chechens and America wil lget pi$$ed it is being the worlds big *** police.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/alpha.jpg
The Roosters, http://318th.2ya.com ( <A HREF=)" target=_blank>http://318th.2ya.com</a>

"Keep taking the pills...fruitcake."-dogpig

If i had a nickel for every ho, ghetto wanna be, goth, enviro-**** and crackhead in my school I'd have 17.695 billion dollars. Including the price paid on every bag of drugs they sell. May God help us all... (half a cent would go to Taxes, or maybe Texas)

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/alpha.jpg
The Roosters, http://318th.2ya.com

"Keep taking the pills...fruitcake."-dogpig

If i had a nickel for every ho, ghetto wanna be, goth, enviro-**** and crackhead in my school I'd have 17.695 billion dollars. Including the price paid on every bag of drugs they sell. May God help us all... (half a cent would go to Taxes, or maybe Texas)

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 06:02 AM
cow wrote:
"I have a sneaking suspicion that WW4 will be fought with sticks and rocks."

Wow, that's creative, too bad you're definitely no Einstein. BTW, Einstein's quote came when he had to flee Europe to escape the Germans and after he theorized about nuclear energy. Basically he was in the mindset that the next World War will be just nuclear bombs everywhere.

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 09:11 AM
I do not believe there will be another world war such as the scale we saw last century. There is a new avenue for conflict, and that is not state on state warfare. But then again, who knows. There will of course be state on state, but not as large or common. WW1 and WW2 had various political manifestations, but WW1 was so large because technology superceded tactics. WW2 was so large because of the fascist and communist regemes involved, and a nation trying to conquer an empire.

There will be more of these in the future, but I do not see it as a world war. Not for a while.

As for America Versus Europe, I highly doubt it. Not in the next fifty years at least. But China, they could be trouble.



http://webhome.idirect.com/~nkirv/ASHcom%205%20alone3%20copy.jpg

Shut up when you talk to me.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 12:09 PM
correct,
US vs China is the upcomeing conflict within the next 15 years.

As for the European Story here:
<LI>Europe will go its own way, because they dont need anyone,
<LI>The economy surplus is triple as high as the US one.
<LI>The Brits will join the Euro Currency within the next 3-5 years and blow the same trompet, if not they will simply be left out and go down.
<LI>Russia is going to join the European Union within the next 10 years.

In 15 years from now on, nobody will give crap on whatever someone out of US is saying.

like it or not, its going to be that way.

<hr>
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
The F-word is appreciated (http://www.thegamingunion.co.uk/users/amcclan/Random/f-word.html)

Message Edited on 10/20/0312:11PM by AMC_Pace

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 12:34 PM
AMC_Pace wrote:
- correct,
- US vs China is the upcomeing conflict within the
- next 15 years.
-
- As for the European Story here:
- <LI>Europe will go its own way, because they dont
- need anyone,
- <LI>The economy surplus is triple as high as the US
- one.
- <LI>The Brits will join the Euro Currency within
- the next 3-5 years and blow the same trompet, if not
- they will simply be left out and go down.
- <LI>Russia is going to join the European Union
- within the next 10 years.
-
- In 15 years from now on, nobody will give crap on
- whatever someone out of US is saying.
-
- like it or not, its going to be that way.
-
- *taps Pace on shoulder* wake up honey, it was all a dream /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

A Roadblock means <font color="red"><font size="4">STOP<font color="red"><font size="4">

Message Edited on 10/20/0307:34AM by Hornet57

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 12:46 PM
America will not always be the world Superpower. History has proven that time and time again. British, Roman, Ottoman, Mongol, Portuguese etc...

It is not if, but when and how that is the question. And possibly it will not be due to a world war but through slower changes in the world that will, over time, shift wealth and influence around.

http://webhome.idirect.com/~nkirv/ASHcom%205%20alone3%20copy.jpg

Shut up when you talk to me.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 02:10 PM
US against China is not a very likely scenario unless the ChiComs invade Taiwan. Since they currently lack the capability to do anything other than annihilate Taiwan, it is not very likely.

"The submergence of self in the pursuit of an ideal, the readiness to spend oneself without measure, prodigally, almost ecstatically, for something intuitively apprehended as great and noble, spend oneself, one knows not why, - some of us like to believe that this is what religion means. "

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 04:13 PM
US vs China is the upcomeing scenario (not necessarily military one) and it is about the dominant role in Asian/ Pacific area.
read more literature and get clue


<hr>
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
The F-word is appreciated (http://www.thegamingunion.co.uk/users/amcclan/Random/f-word.html)

Message Edited on 10/20/0304:43PM by AMC_Pace

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 09:19 PM
read debt of honor, good book, shows how nations can go from allys to enemys rather quickly.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/alpha.jpg
The Roosters, http://318th.2ya.com

"Keep taking the pills...fruitcake."-dogpig

If i had a nickel for every ho, ghetto wanna be, goth, enviro-**** and crackhead in my school I'd have 17.695 billion dollars. Including the price paid on every bag of drugs they sell. May God help us all... (half a cent would go to Taxes, or maybe Texas)

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 09:19 PM
ooooh, I smell a debate.

BTW people, even if it IS USA v CHINA, that does not make it a world war.

http://webhome.idirect.com/~nkirv/ASHcom%205%20alone3%20copy.jpg

Shut up when you talk to me.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 11:00 PM
AMC_Pace wrote:
- US vs China is the upcomeing scenario (not
- necessarily military one) and it is about the
- dominant role in Asian/ Pacific area.
- read more literature and get clue

Just for your erudition, the phrase is "get a clue."

Here is a hint for you: Tom Clancy does not dictate reality. Try to educate yourself about the reality of the situation as well as Chinese military capability. But I'll give you a few quick bits to get you started.

First, despite China's recent emphasis on other areas, they still have a military that is primarily bound to land. Furthermore, while they are once again drilling heavily, they are drilling for a land war and do not have sufficient numbers of well trained airborne or amphibious troops.

Second, their primary target is Taiwan. However, they wish to take Taiwan and its population relatively intact rather than annihilating them. Their goal is reunification and not destruction. The topography of Taiwan makes it difficult for China to make a major landing on that Island, and even with their eight new submarines, they are not capable of fully interdicting the island.

Third, it is not in China's best interests to go to war of any kind with the US. The current trade imbalance is strongly in their favor and they wish to become a superpower. Attempting to fight the US in an economic war when they are in need of US capital would be counterproductive.

Fourth, a conflict between the US and China wold not necessarily be a "world war" by any stretch of the imagination.

"The submergence of self in the pursuit of an ideal, the readiness to spend oneself without measure, prodigally, almost ecstatically, for something intuitively apprehended as great and noble, spend oneself, one knows not why, - some of us like to believe that this is what religion means. "

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 11:01 PM
LOL with over 1/6th of the world population in the conflict I would call it a near world war/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

so funny.

http://www.global-vision.org/interview/intergifs/scream.gif


"Our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, provided the madness is given us by divine gift.."- Plato

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 11:16 PM
A good point, but not everyone would be involved in the war. I mean "world war" in the sense that it would involve a great many nations. Very few nations would want to have any part of a US/China conflict.

"The submergence of self in the pursuit of an ideal, the readiness to spend oneself without measure, prodigally, almost ecstatically, for something intuitively apprehended as great and noble, spend oneself, one knows not why, - some of us like to believe that this is what religion means. "

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 08:17 AM
hey Geist u lame know-it-all
what part of
"is the upcomeing <u>scenario (not necessarily military one)</u>"
dont u understand?


<center><div style="width:100%; font-size:8pt;filter:Shadow[color=gray, strength=16, direction=90)"><div style="width:100%; font-size:14pt;filter:Glow[color=white, strength=2)">Ice-Ger</div></div></center>



Message Edited on 10/21/0308:18AM by Ice-Ger

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 11:16 PM
Ordinarily, I would be happy to address your childish post with withering sarcasm. However, your scintillating wit seems to indicate that it would likely be lost on you. So I'll type this very slowly to make sure you have the chance to get it.

Go back and read what I wrote initially. I said that a conflict between the US and China was unlikely barring Chinese military action. "Conflict" does not mean "military conflict."

My later post, in response to a similarly thoughtfully worded post as yours, clearly states that "it is not in China's best interests to go to war of any kind with the US." Now, and stay with me here because this might become a little bit complex - I then immediately speak about a trade imbalance and economics. Are you still with me? Good - that should have clearly indicated that I was not referring solely to a military conflict.

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

XyZspineZyX
10-21-2003, 11:21 PM
MDS_Geist wrote:
- A good point, but not everyone would be involved in
- the war. I mean "world war" in the sense that it
- would involve a great many nations. Very few
- nations would want to have any part of a US/China
- conflict.

there really isn't anything to gain.



unless your into party favors and cheap plastic products

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/310885/hev194copy.JPG


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XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 01:47 AM
It would mostly be an issue of national interest and what is being offerred. The US is simply in a position to offer more in most cases. However, China's immediate neighbors would be placed in a very unpleasant position due to their immediate vulnerability.

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 06:03 PM
And just one more reason why a US/China conflict is unlikely - at present there are two PLAN ships visiting Guam. You generally try to avoid having your potential enemies visit one of your primary forward bases in the region. This is just the first of many goodwill gestures and visits planned between the US and China.

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 06:51 PM
My thinking:

The current scheme of US intervention in the Middle East will vex the heads of oligarchic states. They will bunch together and offer China exclusive oil rights if they lend them nuclear credibility to shake the US out of the region. Pakistan and N. Korea will be in on the deal too.

The oil will give China an economic platform to build on and thus play the US for the Superpower title.

http://www.jc3.homestead.com/files/sig_slackbladder.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 07:49 PM
plz make this a differnet thread, this off topic from my original post

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/alpha.jpg
The Roosters, http://318th.2ya.com

"Keep taking the pills...fruitcake."-dogpig

If i had a nickel for every ho, ghetto wanna be, goth, enviro-**** and crackhead in my school I'd have 17.695 billion dollars. Including the price paid on every bag of drugs they sell. May God help us all... (half a cent would go to Taxes, or maybe Texas)

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 12:29 AM
*pats him on the shoulder*


welcome to the OFF TOPIC forum.... friend..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://www.global-vision.org/interview/intergifs/scream.gif


"Our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, provided the madness is given us by divine gift.."- Plato

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 01:08 AM
And interesting scheme Slack. And one closer to reality than you may think, except for the China part. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Pakistan has already traded nuclear secrets with North Korea in exchange for missile technology. Actually, they exchanged technology for missiles itself, and is estimated to at this point have between 35 and 60 nuclear weapons.

According to a "ranking Pakistani insider," Saudi Arabia has just made a deal with Pakistan to give them cheap oil in exhange for nuclear weapons technology. Saudi Arabia claims to want a "nuclear deterrent."

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

Message Edited on 10/22/0308:08PM by MDS_Geist

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 08:02 PM
MDS_Geist wrote:
- And interesting scheme Slack. And one closer to
- reality than you may think, except for the China
- part.

Hurrah! Or...should that be a "Hmmph"? I'm predicting China on this front because they:

a) Have ICBM capability.

Nuclear weapons which do not reach the shores of the US will not make for a big enough threat to play the Superpower game.

b) It is in China's interests.

They want to be big, strong and powerful. Plus they are communists so the idea of spreading the Little red Book around the globe is high on the agenda.

c) Warsaw repeated.

A pact will emerge with China as the leader and Arab nations as the sponsors. They do the paying, China does the posturing. I'm suprised that it hasn't happened already. This is the only method I can think of that China can use to become a real player. And we all know that that is something China wants very, very much. All that potential is just waiting for a catalyst in the form of black gold.

http://www.jc3.homestead.com/files/sig_slackbladder.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 08:49 PM
Slackbladder wrote:
- a) Have ICBM capability.
-
- Nuclear weapons which do not reach the shores of the
- US will not make for a big enough threat to play the
- Superpower game.

With the current administrations interests in missile defense technology, and particularly next years scheduled test for the ABL platform, that may become less of an issue. There is also the fact that the DPRK and Pakistan may soon have (confirmed) capability to do so as well. China also has the advantage in this area of being far less industrialized than the US, and therefore better able to cope with the aftereffects of a high order detonation.


- b) It is in China's interests.
-
- They want to be big, strong and powerful. Plus they
- are communists so the idea of spreading the Little
- red Book around the globe is high on the agenda.

They do want to be big, strong and powerful. More to the point, they already are those things and want to be globally acknowledged as such. However, one of the main things holding them back from this is their economic base. They need to being their economy to a new level for this far more than they need to be involed in a serious war.

- c) Warsaw repeated.
-
- A pact will emerge with China as the leader and Arab
- nations as the sponsors. They do the paying, China
- does the posturing. I'm suprised that it hasn't
- happened already. This is the only method I can
- think of that China can use to become a real player.
- And we all know that that is something China wants
- very, very much. All that potential is just waiting
- for a catalyst in the form of black gold.

That is actually a fairly commonly discussed issue. China has very large oil needs that will only increase as they expand. However, they do not have enough resources. However, they also have a huge appetite for technology and quite wisely prefer to have the best as soon as possible. This means continuing to deal with Israel as much as possible, while keeping the Arabs happy in order to keep the oil flowing.

Also, Pakistan just beat China to the punch by making a "nukes-for-oil" deal with the Saudis.

But again, the main thing holding China back is their economy. And going to war with a power likethe US would do them more harm than good at this point in time.

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 08:54 PM
MDS_Geist wrote:
- going to war with a power
- likethe US would do them more harm than good at this
- point in time.

Tune in next week, fans. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.jc3.homestead.com/files/sig_slackbladder.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 09:13 PM
No need to tune in until they have done more to stabilize their economy and strengthen their manufacturing base. Until then it wold be very foolish of them to attempt to engage in any major conflict. Again, bear in mind that even if Taiwan were to decalre independence right now, China would still not be able to take the island without annihlating most of it.

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 12:25 AM
AlphaDelta219 wrote:
- plz make this a differnet thread, this off topic
- from my original post

world trade and economics IS a battlefield

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/310885/hev194copy.JPG


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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 08:08 PM
oiy

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/alpha.jpg
The Roosters, http://318th.2ya.com

"Keep taking the pills...fruitcake."-dogpig

If i had a nickel for every ho, ghetto wanna be, goth, enviro-**** and crackhead in my school I'd have 17.695 billion dollars. Including the price paid on every bag of drugs they sell. May God help us all... (half a cent would go to Taxes, or maybe Texas)

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 04:21 AM
OI! OI! OI!



....... sorry couldn't resist

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/294941/demonblue.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 10:15 PM
oui oui

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/310885/hev194copy.JPG


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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 02:11 PM
hmmm

My uncle works at a navy base close to where i live.

one day we were talking about seomthing similar to this.

and hementioned 2 weapons

Cobalt Bomb-never been teset..there afraid that it could start a chain reaction and destroy the entire planet(makes you feel all warm and fuzzy doesn it)

(i forgot this ones name)-releases radiation and kills all living things within a certain diameter.

-----------------------------------------------
Pitty the poor insomniacn dyslexic agnostic. He stays up all night wondering if there really is a dog.-funniest joke of all time.

<a href=http://www.fallen-angels.net/members.asp?divid=58>Fallen Angels</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 02:43 PM
A cobalt bomb is a theoretical weapon that is called a "planet destroyer" for an entirely different reason. It is a purely theoretical weapon with a cobalt rather than a nuclear tamper which would create large amounts of cobalt-60, a material which produced large amounts of gamma radiation. The reason why it is called a "planet killer" or "doomsday weapon" is because the the half life of cobalt-60 is long enough for particles of it to spread over the earth's surface, therefore making the plante prety much unihabitable.

The second type of weapon you mentioned is an enhanced radiation weapon, also called a neutron bomb. It is a nuclear weapon modified to emit extemely high (even higher than a "normal" nuclear device) levels of hard radiation. It is also a theoretical weapon. It would have a non-fissionable tamper and be a weapon with a powerful blast and massive amounts of radiation, but very little to no fallout.

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 01:32 AM
MDS_Geist wrote:
- A cobalt bomb is a theoretical weapon that is called
- a "planet destroyer" for an entirely different
- reason. It is a purely theoretical weapon with a
- cobalt rather than a nuclear tamper which would
- create large amounts of cobalt-60, a material which
- produced large amounts of gamma radiation. The
- reason why it is called a "planet killer" or
- "doomsday weapon" is because the the half life of
- cobalt-60 is long enough for particles of it to
- spread over the earth's surface, therefore making
- the plante prety much unihabitable.

tune in next week,,, when we will have a lesson on botulism and nerve agents

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/310885/hev194copy.JPG


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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 01:49 AM
Or you could just call your local cosmetic surgeon for a lesson about the virtues of botulinum toxin. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 01:55 AM
Oh, and as long as this thread is on top, thre is yet one more reason to think that relations between the US and China are not leaning towards war. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld met today with Minister of National Defense General Gangchuan Cao. Talks were described as "productive and constructive." More meetings are scheduled for next year.

Does this mean anything conlusive? No. But it does indicate that neither side is in any particular hurry to pick a fight with the other.

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 06:21 AM
If the Chinese had to destroy most of Taiwan's infrastructure in order to win it doesn't seem too worthwhile. Since they'd probably want the technology producing assets they currently offer.

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 03:49 PM
Other than nationalistic reasons, that is one of the main reasons why they want to bring Taiwan back under their control. It has a very strong manufacturing base that would be extremely useful to the PRC. And since there is no way for them to take Taiwan without destroying large chunks of it, they'll do nothing. If Taiwan were to formally declare their full independence, it might makes things somewhat messy though.

"A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service of the Lord, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water."

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 02:05 AM
I have a headach...... why can't we skip this thinking part and just go ahead and drop a few bombs.

Wake up in the morning and sort through the mess and 1,000,000 dead bodies later.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/294941/specforces05.jpg


"De Oppresso Liber"