Bismarck Cannon

[Kriegspiel]

Has anyone seen the screen shot of the Bismarck firing a Volkswagen size round off her bow? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif Holy Christ! I think I'd rather put my tail between my legs and set sail the opposite direction than fight that behemoth. You are never going to sink her; you'd run out of ammo and then what? I am sure she must be very loud too. I'd hate to be within ear shot of that cannon when it went off.

[Kriegspiel]

Has anyone seen the screen shot of the Bismarck firing a Volkswagen size round off her bow? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif Holy Christ! I think I'd rather put my tail between my legs and set sail the opposite direction than fight that behemoth. You are never going to sink her; you'd run out of ammo and then what? I am sure she must be very loud too. I'd hate to be within ear shot of that cannon when it went off.

[SailorSteve]

They were ALL impressive, and Bismarck's were not exceptional.

Shell weights:
Bismarck 38cm (14.98"): 1764lb / 800kg
Hood 15" (38.1cm): 1938lb / 879kg
Rodney 16" (40.64cm): 2048lb / 929kg
Iowa 16": (40.64cm): 2700lb / 1225kg
Yamato 46cm (18.1"): 3219lb / 1460kg

______________________________
Always keep you clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

[paxhispanica]

Sip, but in the end was the lack of reliable radar ( or radiotelemeter )and the lack of good air defence and support that made posible the sinking of " ... the most modern battleship in the world" as Winston Churchill said

[Capt.LoneRanger]

Well, to be honest, it was a really lucky shot that brought the Bismark down. And even after it's rudder was damaged and the ship was only able to make a wide turn, it was still the crew of the Bismark itself, who sunk it in the end, not the RAF or the RoyalNavy.

Sure, Radar would have been nice, but the whole strategy of the Kriegsmarine, with it's lone battleships cruising for a kill like the subs did, was simply short-sighted. Superior technology is never a guarantee to win a battle. Just remember Vietnam.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/7182/1703abcdefg.gif

[SailorSteve]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And even after it's rudder was damaged and the ship was only able to make a wide turn, it was still the crew of the Bismark itself, who sunk it in the end, not the RAF or the RoyalNavy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That concept has been argued back and forth for the last sixty years, and is hardly etched in stone. Members of the Bismarck's crew maintain they laid scuttling charges, but it is also a fact that the cruiser Dorsetshire put several torpedoes into her. The fact is the ship was trashed, on fire from stem to stern and would have sunk within hours anyway; so yes, the Royal Navy DID sink the Bismarck.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sure, Radar would have been nice<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not sure what you mean by that. They had radar.

As to Vietnam, the U.S. won every single battle there. The reasons the war was lost are twofold:
1) Doctrine established at home did not allow soldiers to take the fight to North Vietnam, and
2) Fighting a war several thousand miles away with people who don't want you there in the first place is never a good idea. Just ask the British in 1812.

______________________________
Always keep you clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

[robsalguz]

Guys just to remind you that Jame's Cameron's Authopsy or forensic examination of Bismarck's wreckage only prove that the German crew did scuttle the already "DOOMED" ship.
Germans were so proud that they even wanted to have control over it's final hour or destiny.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif
But anyway... let's talk about SHIII...

[Kriegspiel]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SailorSteve:
They were ALL impressive, and Bismarck's were not exceptional.

Shell weights:
Bismarck 38cm (14.98"): 1764lb / 800kg
Hood 15" (38.1cm): 1938lb / 879kg
Rodney 16" (40.64cm): 2048lb / 929kg
Iowa 16": (40.64cm): 2700lb / 1225kg
Yamato 46cm (18.1"): 3219lb / 1460kg

______________________________
Always keep you clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, you're right! The Tomato really fired off a 3,000 pound slug? I thought the Biscuit was the biggest and baddest ever built.

Thanks for the info Steve--you guys really do your home work out there.

[Bowfin]

It wasn't pride that made the Germans scuttle
the Bismarck,its simply what you do if your
weapon (ship) is going to fall into enemy hands
you never give the enemy your plane ,ship etc.
let them build thier own,Battleships cost alot
of money and take along time to build and the
Bismarck was a hi-tech battleship

[Gmuno]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by robsalguz:
Guys just to remind you that Jame's Cameron's Authopsy or forensic examination of Bismarck's wreckage only prove that the German crew did scuttle the already "DOOMED" ship.
Germans were so proud that they even wanted to have control over it's final hour or destiny.

You've missed something in watching Cameron's authopsy. No granate hit below waterline and the torpedoes didn't reach behind the torpedobelt, it was totally unscarred.
Maybe it would have sunk if the fires had reached the magazins, but the watertight integrety was not blown up by enemy granates or torpedoes. Wouldn't the crew have blown the waterseals, the wreck would have flooted quite a long time.

Horrido

[paxhispanica]

But in the end was the RAF who made posible the sinking of the Bismarck and the Royal Navy did the "dirty job"

[R3I]

Haha...i once read a biography of one of the crew from Bismarck..he reports in her final hour the Shells from the British Battle ships & surpporting ships no longer could hit her when the water was at deck level on the bismarck..as there guns had not been designed to travers that low.
haha.would have been funny to watch shells fly over the top of you becuase your a little low in the water!!

[HeibgesU999]

The Bismark represented 56 or so additional uboats in Washington tonnage the Germans could have had. You could argue that building the Bismark cost Germany WWII.

[Drym]

Add the Tirpitz and there's another 56 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Or.....more resources to U-boats and perhaps type XXIs would've shown up a year or so earlier? How's that for a "what if"? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dedeye/sig.jpg

[Gmuno]

That's a major "what if".

[Kapitan_Nereus]

yea http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
If the XXI had gotten into the Atlantic a year or so before it did... *shudder*
too many "what if's" in there for my liking http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

guess thats one thing we can thank hitler for: being crazy and stupid enough to not give Dönitz what he needed to win the war...
the world would be a very different place, but i'd rather not think about the specifics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Back on topic: the Yamato Class was the ultimate Battleship, but what does a submarine have to fear from a lumbering giant deisgned for ship to ship combat? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Answer: not much really...

didn't the Yamato had an extra year of development on the Bismarck anyway?
dates would be a good addition to that list, anybody know em all? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

[Gmuno]

I think the Yamato was around Dec. '41 in fleet trials. I've read somewhere that it missed active duty during Pearl Harbor by some weeks.

[Profy_le_Troll]

Yamato first draft started in 1935. The final wdrafts were approuved in 1937 64000T, 263m long, 39m wide, 10m waterline, 64cm main turret armor, 23 cm deck armor. but only 27 knots. Launched on august 1940 completely operational december 1941.

He had to sistership. The Musashi launched on novembre 1940 operational on july 1942 and the Shinano launched on decembre 1941 but Shinano was rebuilt as carrier after midway lost and finished in 1944 october. Yamato and Musashi were sunk in battle of Okinawa for Yamato and Leyte for musashi. Musashi under 20 torpedoes and 40 bombs. Yamato under 20 torpedoes and 17 bomb. Yamato was the biggest Kamikaze cauise he was sent to Okinawa with just enough fuel for the single trip (no return planed).

Shinano has a more disgracefull death, he was torpedoed by US submarine before he was finished. So sunk as a totaly defenceless target.



On bismarck it was not a super high tech battleship as the allied tried to make us believe. "We sunk the bismarck the highest tech battleship, We are the best, we are the allies.." Blablabla pityfull propaganda. Bismarck was just a renowed "baden" type from WWI 1916 battleship nothing more. Main belt was 32cm tick against 35 to 38 for allies one; deck armor 11.5cm againt 15 for allies and top speed 29 consuming 27% more than an King Georges V for only 28.5 knots. so definitely not the best battleship.

[This message was edited by Profy_le_Troll on Mon June 28 2004 at 09:24 AM.]

[bertgang]

All the Axis navies did the same mistake; great expenses in building battleships, then wasted by useless tactics.
Maybe 100 or more german subs (type VII, IX or II) could have done a substantial difference, early in the war.

[R3I]

The sinking of the Shinano was done inside the shipyard of Kure (aka The main ship yard of Japan) she was sunk in there own waters....Haha.

P.s. Please do not refer to ships as * he's *...its just aint right...there * she's * & will always be * she's *...until we end up with female PM's / Presidenta's...but until then.. * Shes * are how warships are best tagged thank you.

[Profy_le_Troll]

Why "She" and not "He" we all agree once named a ship is no more defined by "It" but why female "she" their name refer to "male thing" they are not named "the daisy Bell" or "the little mermaid" May be tgis is the use of american navy but not the one of our navy. So i will stick on "He" to refer to a boat.

[delphin-U190]

Why dont use "the" ship or "this" ship ? everyone will be happy like this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Had you diving under the ships to see if they are male or female ? Are the male ship annoyed in shallow water ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

[HeibgesU999]

Drebbel told me about KD's book "10 Years and 20 Days". According to KD, anyway, Hitler was telling folks in August of 1939 that he had no plans on going to war before 1948.

[TASKFORCE1x1]

If Bismark ever found a convoy with those guns it would devistate the entire convoy. The ship was built for this reason. Surface raiders. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

[Iohann Moritz]

Dönitz would have all the submarines he wanted according to a carefully set schedule... for 1946, when Hitler had firstly planned to start the war.
The Kriegsmarine was the most affected by the change of plans. Only a few U-Boats, and 2 battleships not quite finished were the ships of strategical relevance at the beginning of the war.

By the way, it is of common agreement that a ship is to be reffered to as "she". Well, other languages have their seemingly-illogical rules too... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Have a nice day.

[TASKFORCE1x1]

LOL with the "He Said" "She Said" stuff. I agree anyways. Never heard or seen written about ships or aircraft referred to as "he". All the nose art of aircraft I have ever seen like on B-17's were women or icons. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'