Russian school hostage situation

[kimi_]

I am saddened to hear the outcome of this, such a high death toll. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Please guys, if you're going to get political in this thread, be respectful. This subject does NOT put me in any happy mood to edit or warn y'all.

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[kimi_]

I am saddened to hear the outcome of this, such a high death toll. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Please guys, if you're going to get political in this thread, be respectful. This subject does NOT put me in any happy mood to edit or warn y'all.

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[RMC.SBS]

Terrible,tragic events today,and i really feel for the parents of those poor children
I`t goes to show what evil those terrorists are,by shooting at scared,terrified kids running away,crying for their parents.
Let us hope the death toll does not go any higher

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[This message was edited by RMC.SBS on Fri September 03 2004 at 12:24 PM.]

[MT_UnclePhil]

That is absolute bottom of someone evil, who in the hell holds kids hostage? i mean hostage taking is bad but why not hold up a bank?

stupid punks, i hope everyone of them gets their balls blown off.

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[Hornet57]

I hope that this murder spree and hostage taking of inocent little children and babies will knock some sense to so many people like the protesters all over the world that Islamic terrorsists don't give a flip of who they kill because to them death is honor. Their leaders are guiding them (brainwashed robots)to kill anyone and anything that would shock/frighten the world into submission. Does anyone here still give a flip as to how these animals are treated in Abu Graib prison?

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[Black_Knight_1]

sry to ask this guys but i just got off my holidays. What happened and how many died??? I know it was a hostage situatian in a school but not much more.

TV in the room was broken so heard nothing till i got back bout an hour ago.

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[NapalmFrog]

i haven't heard about this at all... whoah i'm detached from the world... when did it ahppen? maybe i should pop onto CBC to see if they have anything... that is if this is new

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[RMC.SBS]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3624024.stm

Well hornet i get tired of all these "human rights" people harping on about how to treat these terrorists/prisoners who harm innocent people and kids
What if any of their children were killed or harmed by a terrorist action? would they be so supportive of these terrorist groups then?

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[NapalmFrog]

HOLY F'ING COW...
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/09/03/russia_school040903.html
that is...words can't describe... and i thought terrorism was bad enough... tears are actually coming...must...hold...back...

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[ZeroSniper0]

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=756105611&m=906005107

read that thread guys. everything is there, including the numbers...and they are not numbers you want to see http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif.

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[NapalmFrog]

this whole thing is getting out of hand... who's up for using their RvS skills to take out some terrorists?

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[kllr-teddy]

I am an infiltration master....lol.. I can sneak into and out of almost anywhere...

I sure hope this never happens in America...

My prayers go to the families....

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[Hornet57]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RMC.SBS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3624024.stm

Well hornet i get tired of all these "human rights" people harping on about how to treat these terrorists/prisoners who harm innocent people and kids
What if any of their children were killed or harmed by a terrorist action? would they be so supportive of these terrorist groups then?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course they would be mad as hell and demand justice but as usual their anger would be against their own Leaders that are trying to get rid of these thugs with one hand tied behind their back done daily by these moronic "People's rights" activists

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[Demon_Mustang]

I've already said this in Oleg's thread, but the outcome of this event saddened me as well. I don't know any of these people personally, but I still feel empathy for them. I know they are normal people just like I am, I know that they had ambitions and dreams for their futures like I do, and for a lot of them, all of that has been shattered and taken away because of these heartless terrorists. I would say it is a mix of great anger and sorrow...

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[Olegious]

in the first 2 days there were 20 hostages executed, according to Russian news, they would line people up against walls and shoot them for the smallest infractions

http://www.gazeta.ru/photoreport/beslan/

they should run these images alongside the ones at Abu Graib, or Guantanamo Bay, or any other time that those "human rights" groups say that excessive force is used against those terrorist scum.

[ZeroSniper0]

uh oh...now the death toll is 350, including 156 children...

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp...806&floc=NW_1-T (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20040904%2F0905184460.htm&sc=1103&photoid=20040904MOSB806&floc=NW_1-T)

http://cdn-channels.netscape.com/cp/news/top/i/russianschool135.jpg

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[Crushda]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZeroSniper0:
uh oh...now the death toll is 350, including 156 children...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i heard in the News today 322 dead hostages counted so far, 260 still missing probably dead, if u consider 1000-1200 hostages over all that makes almost a loss of 50%.
pretty bad operation, no planning, no nothing so it apears to me at least.

[teebus]

It truly beggers belief that any human alive could take so many poor phychologically delicate children on the first day at term (for some of them- the first day at school) hostage, alongside teachers and parents... And plant explosives and trip wires all over the building. It is sickening.

Crushda- you can't plan an operation if you are not indending to storm the building... They didn't really know all the details in the first place, and storming a building with remote explosives, tripwires, mines placed everywhere is always a last resort... I think they did the right thing when they heard the captors shooting at escaping hostages and the subsequent explosions. It could have been a lot worse- people like this who are prepared to take their own life and many others in the hope of going to a "better place" are unlikely to speak the language of "peace", unless it involves Russia pulling out of Chechnya- which would not have happened.

Some would say the death toll could have been a lot higher- it could have, but that doesn't account for such a tragic loss of life. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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[MDS_Geist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crushda:
pretty bad operation, no planning, no nothing so it apears to me at least.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was not a planned operation. The Russian troops were removing bodies under a cease-fire agreement and the terrorists opened fire on them. They returned fire and took the opportunity of their advanced position to move into the buildings.

It should be noted that accoring toa number of reports the largest number of dead had already been killed when two terrorists detonated themselves in the packed gymnasium. Many others were shot in the back by the terrorists as they tried to escape.

The Right to command is bought with Duty, the Privilege of rank is Service.

[MDS_Geist]

There is actually a newer version of the story coming out of Russia now. According to the latest report that I have heard another explosive went off in the gymnasium so a number of children fled. When the terrorists opened fire on them, the Russian troops responded to protect them.

Either way, it is very clear that this was not a planned operation.

The Right to command is bought with Duty, the Privilege of rank is Service.

[teebus]

That is the version I am familiar with:

"I think they did the right thing when they heard the captors shooting at escaping hostages and the subsequent explosions."

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[Hornet57]

Other then "sleeping gas" there is nothing much you can do to provide a safe outcome. Looks like there were 20-30 terrorists "deathready" involved and a wired building that can go up in a push of a button.

I think most of us understand what needs to be done so things like this don't happen again.

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[ZeroSniper0]

an ex-SAS trooper who took part in the Iranian Embassy siege was being interviewed by BBC while all this was going on. his take was that when Spetsnaz arrived on the scene, they should have put a worst case scenario assault plan into place. this plan is then refined as the standoff continues. as soon as the terrorists started shooting at the escaping children, this plan should have been executed. seeing as how Spetsnaz never formed such a plan, they were forced to go about things in a blind and uncoordinated manner. the ex-SAS trooper's take on the firefight was that it looked like something from the Wild West and wondered what the hell were all of those people milling around the school doing there. the whole area should have been totally locked down by Spetsnaz with nobody there but them and paramedics standing by...not armed civilians, militia, police, and assorted others spraying away at anything that moved. he also wondered how some of the terrorists escaped a cordoned off area http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif. all in all, the trooper said that there were many procedures that should have been carried out that were not, and this resulted in utter chaos beyond the control of Spetsnaz.

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"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother."
--William Shakespeare, King Henry V

[teebus]

The terrorsists who escaped must have dressed themselves in some of the hostages clothing... That would have been the only way.

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[RMC.SBS]

I dont think there was going to be a peaceful end to this seige,for one the whole gym was laced with explosives,above the kids heads there where bombs,a suicidebomber had blown herself up in front of a group of kids
i also read that a child had asked one of the terrorists for a drink of water,and he ran a bayonet he had on his rifle through this poor childs body
I hope this was one of the terrorists who was killed,and died an agonising death
I think the russian army/spec ops could do no more,its a tricky situation,these terrorists are ruthless,and desensitsed to care about human life
If the army hadnot have gone in,then many many more lives would have been lost

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[Olegious]

i agree with Zero that the biggest mistake was what seemed to be a lack of a perimiter around the school (something that was well executed in the Moscow Nord Ost hostage situation, if you remember there were no civilians at all near the scene and the whole place was surrounded with tanks). furthermore, people keep saying Spetznaz was involved, but i havent seen any indication, either from the pics or from news reports. once again referring back to the Moscow siege, you could clearly see well organized units, with matching uniforms and new equipment, here you didnt see any of that, you saw many different uniforms and weapons, no seemingly organized formations. this leads me to believe that they simply used local OMON (SWAT) units, or something of that matter, or maybe battle units from Chechnya...

[Demon_Mustang]

From what I heard, Putin is admitting that they were not tough enough on terrorism before, and vows to be tougher on terrorism from now on.

But that doesn't sound like the Putin I know, that tries to make people think they got an iron grip on everything...

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[Olegious]

Demon, read the translation of Putin's speech that i posted, he doesnt take blame, he says that the overall trend since the collapse of USSR is one of weakness, just read the topic...

[kimi_]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RMC.SBS:

I hope this was one of the terrorists who was killed,and died an agonising death

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weren't all the terrorists killed, even the ones that escaped the immediate area?

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[MDS_Geist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kimi:
Weren't all the terrorists killed, even the ones that escaped the immediate area?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's somewhat questionable Kimi. Russian authorities claim to have confirmed thirty dead terrorists. By most reports that leaves between three and ten unaccounted for. Assuming that the person who was allegedly killed by a mob was in fact a terrorist and that the person arrested today was also one of the murderers then we have possibly one to eight still unaccounted for.

However, it is very important to bear in mind that these numbers are based on the accounts of the hostages. Many of them are still in a state of at least mild shock and the majority were not focussed on counting the number of terrorists.

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[CAPT. Jessica McAllen]

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif This is the worst event ever, the terrorist attacked kids. I 've read the newspaper today and one of the surviver said that the hostage were abuseed even raped. If I were there I will get in and kick the terrorist's asses for what they did, belive me they will pay for that. someday in the future and in final judgement. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif