Cheating?

[Grim_O]

Does anyone know (perhaps by own experience http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ) if the online part of chessmaster has some sort of anti cheating device to detect people who uses engines to help them? Like on WCN or playchess a program spots a player if he/she changes windows often during a game. Does this exist in CM 10th ed. or will it be implented later or never at all?

[Grim_O]

Does anyone know (perhaps by own experience http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ) if the online part of chessmaster has some sort of anti cheating device to detect people who uses engines to help them? Like on WCN or playchess a program spots a player if he/she changes windows often during a game. Does this exist in CM 10th ed. or will it be implented later or never at all?

[ForrestG4]

personally I can't understand people cheating in this game, I mean come on, we're playing chess not dices, what satisfaction a chess player could have in winnig in an unregular way. Doest it make him feel smarter? ...If one is not good enough (and none is), well there's just one way, study and improve your game, and guess what ?!?...SATISFACTION'S GARANTEED !

[Grim_O]

I agree and I can't understand it either. But let's face it, there are some who cheats and there will always be. And losing to a cheater is to me far worse than losing to a disconnect. So what I'm interested in is what ubisoft will do or have done to reduce this.

[jcordova]

You would be surprised, but cheating has all but killed the Playstation2 online community. It went from people like Mario Gaitan, and his 300+ game winning streak, evidently using computer assistance, to players like Talleyho and Rebeccac who would disconnect everytime they were losing. We went from finding a good 5 to 7 players per night, to nothing. I sometimes log on, and see nobody for 5 hours straight... It is too bad.

[ForrestG4]

I didn't say that cheating doesn't exist I'm no dumb, I just said, the hell, I CAN'T understand it in THIS game. And for Grim_o, don't worry dude, losing to a cheater does no harm cause it simply doesn't count. Now, I strongly agree for using some kinda prog that spots and ban cheaters. They probabaly do have one one the chessbase server.
God, I do care for this 10th edition like if it was my own child. Make it perfect ubi guys, let your mothers be proud of u ! ;o)

[Grim_O]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> God, I do care for this 10th edition like if it was my own child. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haha, lol.
I once cared for a bunny we had (then it died) but a video game, gotta draw the line there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ForrestG4]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I once cared for a bunny we had (then it died) but a video game, gotta draw the line there <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
again don't worry Grim_o, I'm the first who laughed about it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
anyway, see u online for a play, and...no cheating stuff, of course ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Grim_O]

Ok. I have now played for about... some time (don't know how long http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ). And I must say that I'm suspecting that a lot of players (and I think many other people are suspecting) are using some some sort of program to aid them in their play *cough* Fritz *cough*. You may flame me for this and prove me wrong but I am starting to have a hard time believing that there's comming a new grandmaster online every day. For me it's more likely there's comming a new cheater every day. What so ever, the average games are so much better now than in the beginning (ecspecially the top players games). I have not (yet) analysed the games with engines but it seems very strange to me that so many people can keep playing so perfect. Many doens't even show sign of the smallest weakness. They play so fast, even in touh positions, I can't even keep up my calculations when viewing. It's just not human, even Kasparov blunders...

So anyway, my point is that I will analyse all my own games from now on with engine and list everyone in here I suspect to be cheating. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif
No one can prevent people from cheating but know, it will have consequences if you do it against me now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

PS: I still hope that Ubisoft will do something about this.

PPS: The average real rating for being on the top 10 in any catagory seems to be around 1800 elo, with the highest players at 2000+. Therefore I wonder, how come does such skilled player not make any tutorials for us newbies?... Just a thought.

You may flame me now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[lecek]

I once observed on Yahoo, a player that had set up several accounts. (I assume so) This player had all acounts rated at 3000+. This player only played himself. Looking at his history I see that this players winning streaks were very manufactured. Litterally player1 wins 10 then player 2 wins 10 etc.... Now I ask you, what is the point to that?? (The names of each player where the same save a number at the end)

I know a few strong players that have grater then 2000+ ratings on pogo. (high ratings there anyway) Despite those players not cheating they regularly get flamed for cheating by ppl they are not even playing. It is getting so hard to tell the cheaters from the good players that everyone who does good is suspected of cheating. This makes it very hard to find other good players.

I wonder when this sad trend will die off.

[hilts64]

After reading some of this posts - i do have to say that i can see both sides of teh coin.
I truly believe that what Grim_O is right in that people are highly suspicious.
But i also play a lot of CS/CoD online, and i have to say that there is a whole new brand of cheats that make me ashamend to be an onine gamer.
Using enahnced help just to try and prove how good they are. I have plyed a few games against lower rated people whop have quite frankly 'kicked my ****'. Now some of you might say he was a better player, but we all know in ourselevs our ability and how we should fair againts some one of a certian rank.
Personally i DO believe there are some out there using help, purely because they weak in that they dont have the mental capacity to use what they condier is their 'Brain' inside that thick skull of theirs and want glory fast and furiously.
Without a valid cheat detection, i would say that players do have the right to be highly suspicious untill all methods of cheating are eliminated tbh !!!!
But you'll always get some *** wanting glory without the hard work ! and finding a 'workaround' for teh detection.
As i see it, as long as you have played true to the best ofyour ability, then even if the other guy wins, your still the real WINN0R at the end of the day http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Grim_O]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But i also play a lot of CS/CoD online, and i have to say that there is a whole new brand of cheats that make me ashamend to be an onine gamer.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've had a nerd period with Diablo 1/2 and AoE and such other games where I also must say I'm as amazed as frightened by the cheats, hacks and bots and what else there might be. But for chess I don't think it's in that category, yet. It's just normal chess players who has an engine open that assists them in their play. I don't think anyone uses hacks to make you lose a game, altering their score etc.

[[NWO]CRUSADER]

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif Does Chess have any rockets or missiles?

------------------------------ (Be seeing You)http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

[Grim_O]

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif
What's the difference between a rocket and a missile anyway?

[hilts64]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't think anyone uses hacks to make you lose a game, altering their score etc <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh i see where your getting at Grim_O. I wasnt really refering to usings hacks etc but the mere fact that you will always get cheats, regardless of the type of game.
There is always someone wanting to be absolutely great infront of the rest of the crowd and will use what ever help they can.
Trouble is in Chess, it's a lot harder to tell than other games.
Unless ofcourse your plying a guy with a 700 rank who can beat you hands down in less than 10 moves !

For the record Grim-O
Missile - has trajectory and target
Rocket - free roaming http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Fallen77]

I wanted to say something about playing a person and winning, and a week later getting your *** kicked. I for one am extremely uneven in my chess styles. I've only played casually against people who have never had any training or read any chess books which is making it very hard for me to get some of the concepts down. My main problem is blunders, and they happen when I'm doing really really well. I'll see a mate in three and not see that they can mate me their next turn.

I played online CM10 demo, and lost swiftly to a player ranked 1300; replayed him and played a game worthy of being added to the books(ok, not that good) but there wasn't a move where I wasn't using a fork or pin, or causing sacrifices. I think until someone has become a consistent chess player they're quality as a player can't really be determined.

I've been a gamer in the pc/console area for a long time and have seen some amazing exploits/hacks but I do wonder about the use of cheating in the chess games. From what I've seen it should be easy to modify CM10 to run twice and play online and play single player and just respond to online player with complete mastery.

Sorry this post seems to long,,,

[Grim_O]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I played online CM10 demo, and lost swiftly to a player ranked 1300; replayed him and played a game worthy of being added to the books(ok, not that good) but there wasn't a move where I wasn't using a fork or pin, or causing sacrifices. I think until someone has become a consistent chess player they're quality as a player can't really be determined. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course this is true and I also play games that vary from beginner to expert moves. But still there's still a slight difference in the moves of a human grandmaster and thoose of a computer. So it's not that unstable play is the same as cheating. But you can usually see, or at least feel if someone just plays better or is assisted by a program. The moves of the person might change since he's having a good game but his style shouldn't. There's something wrong if a player who usually plays defensive pawn openings and hardly ever makes a risky move suddenly starts playing perfect tactical games with razor sharp openings and perfect endgames. It's just not human.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I've been a gamer in the pc/console area for a long time and have seen some amazing exploits/hacks but I do wonder about the use of cheating in the chess games. From what I've seen it should be easy to modify CM10 to run twice and play online and play single player and just respond to online player with complete mastery.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There's no need to modify the game to allow 2 windows open at the same time. most chess players have at least 2 chess programs installed on their pc. Not to forget how many free engines and program you can download for free on the internet. So the problem isn't how to cheat, that's very easy. The problem, I think, is how to make the cheating look human and not something made by a computer.