Ubisoft went “explosive” with Blacklist at E3 to get noticed - VG247

[Andre202]

Full video interview will be added later on. ;)


Ubisoft’s Patrick Redding has said the reason the developers went with an all-out action debut for Splinter Cell: Blacklist was so the game wouldn’t get lost “in the backdrop,” of other offerings during E3 2012.


Speaking with VG247 during E3, Redding, who is the game’s director, said Ubisoft also wanted to showcase various abilities inherent in Sam Fisher, which constitute more than just stealth.
“I think the important thing to remember about E3 is you’re always out to make a splash, to make your mark, to make sure everybody sees you in the backdrop of the other games which are out there,” he said. “So we kind of needed to go with something that was a little bit different and explosive, and maybe even a little controversial in terms of the franchise.
“We went with something which showcased exteriors, showcased daylight, something that showcased concealment instead of outright stealth, and showcased a wide range of Sam’s abilities including some things which were fairly aggressive.
“That was something we set out to do, because frankly, we needed to start that dialogue by reaching out to those who maybe have never played Splinter Cell and needed to at least notice us.”
Fans of the series may have been a bit confused when watching the demo and trailer (http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/12/splinter-cell-blacklist-teaser-is-pleasantly-short/), but Redding said Ubisoft plans to address this very issue “in the coming months.”
“We know that we’re going to have to have the conversation with more established fans and fans who stealth play,” he admitted, “and we definitely have a lot to talk about with them on that exact subject and we’ll be doing just that in the coming months.”
Splinter Cell: Blacklist was shown during Microsoft’s E3 2012 Press Conference, after rumors of the game appeared the week before. The demo shown during the event featured an evolved from of mark and execute from Splinter Cell: Conviction, along with some Kinect functionality.
The game will release in spring 2013 on PC, PS3, Xbox 360, and possibly Wii U.
Our full video interview with Patrick Redding will be posted a bit later, so keep your eyes peeled.




Source (http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/19/splinter-cell-blacklist-at-e3-you-have-to-go-with-something-explosive/)




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK2CIIe8SD8

[NightGhost1994]

Again, ahead of me. At least I got the video

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/best-press-best-of-e3/732393
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yXZ01b1O4i0/T8WH2DRka3I/AAAAAAAAAjg/fk8KHnnKV1I/s1600/yes_logo.png

[mateus99]

Thx Andre.Well i think we all knew it they wanted to impress the masses,but i cant wait to see how are they going to addres the fan issue....maybe show us some stealth gameplay most likely.

Edit:nightghost are you sure the link is correct?it just shows me GT best e3 awards nothing to do with sc.

[Andre202]

Again, ahead of me. At least I got the video

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/best-press-best-of-e3/732393
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yXZ01b1O4i0/T8WH2DRka3I/AAAAAAAAAjg/fk8KHnnKV1I/s1600/yes_logo.png

I mean, I agree that Ubi had the best press conference but it isn't the interview with Redding, you know?

[NightGhost1994]

@mateus99:
Video I posted is about Best press conference of E3, where Ubisoft won :D
As It says in the title

Ubisoft went “explosive” with Blacklist at E3 to get noticed - VG247
I might posted a right video and SCB is mentioned at the end

[NightGhost1994]

I mean, I agree that Ubi had the best press conference but it isn't the interview with Redding, you know?
As I said, I looked the title EXPLODE, not the text. Sry ;)

[mateus99]

Oh my mistake then sorry,i though that the video was going to be the interview from that article :rolleyes:

[FrankieSatt]

Full video interview will be added later on. ;)




Source (http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/19/splinter-cell-blacklist-at-e3-you-have-to-go-with-something-explosive/)

I'll say it again, I find it COMPLETE BS that they couldn't show stealth at E3. If the people watching couldn't understand it or follow it than they shouldn't be playing the game to start with.

The previous Splinter Cell games promoted Stealth with videos and they could have done the same at E3. The fact that they didn't just shows were exactly the game is at and what they think of Stealth.

[nukelukespuke34]

Okay, yes they wanted it to appeal to a broad audience, but why, WHY would you choose the most generic, Michael Bay-esque, COD-style way to do it? When every other game out there has Hollywood-style gun fights, big explosions and set pieces, isn't showcasing daylight Rambo-esque running and gunning in war-torn Middle Eastern environments going to make it blend in with the crowd rather than stand out from it? I just don't understand their logic. :confused:

[sameer_monier]

This was the right move to make, in times like this you need to attract as many people as you can.


I believe they could have easily avoided this whole ruckus by making 2 demos, the first one MS event where they show what we saw, the 2nd one in Ubi's Conference or even Sony's to show a different take on the same demo, a stealth take, it would have been great for them,

I believe they will show amazing stealth gameplay, and I can't wait till they do, but they also need to appeal to the masses, something I understand, and I am still happy cause they are considering deep stealth, deep AI, and Ghost paths.

[Andre202]

I do not understand the PR either. They want to be noticed but do the things almost every game does there. Go all out action.

And ironically the games which were unique in it's idea and the complete opposite of all out action got the most attention.

The Last of Us, Watch Dogs, Beyond. They weren't presenting any "airstrikes"... lol that hurts.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Dishonored, Hitman Absolution, many others weren't all out action...or if they were, they showed alternate playthroughs...

[shobhit7777777]

I doubt people would be unaware of a brand like Splinter Cell...nevertheless..they were gunning for the anti-stealth folks, trying to convince them there's enough explosions in the game to warrant a buy. *Sigh

[sameer_monier]

Dishonored, Hitman Absolution, many others weren't all out action...or if they were, they showed alternate playthroughs...
Hitman Absolution first demo was far from what the series was known for, and the fans were upset (?) about it too.

Look now, they showed more than one way to play stealthy, and showed how hardcore hitman still is.

[shobhit7777777]

Dishonored, Hitman Absolution, many others weren't all out action...or if they were, they showed alternate playthroughs...

Hitman Absolution debuted last year with an aggro-stealth walkthrough....and then more aggro-stealth trailers...Fans went into trauma induced coma...come E32012 the multiple playthrough gameplay is shown..."I told you so"s floating everywhere.

Dishonored's setting and gameplay sells itself

SCB on the other hand needed some oomph

[NightGhost1994]

Look now, they showed more than one way to play stealthy, and showed how hardcore hitman still is.
Yeah. I tallked to Jazz about Absolution long time ago. After 1st demo, I wanted to cry, becuase Blood Money was 5x better than any other Hitman and they turned Absolution into something that isn't Hitman, but after a couple of months, I saw a few videos and realized that Absolution is the kind of Hitman game that I was waiting for.


I believe they will show amazing stealth gameplay, and I can't wait till they do, but they also need to appeal to the masses, something I understand, and I am still happy cause they are considering deep stealth, deep AI, and Ghost paths.
You don't need a demo to figure out the stealth way. Look at the village at the demo, you can go around the houses, climb on walls, enter some houses and even get on 2nd floor. You have multiple advantages for preforming "grab from ledge" or "death from above", but there are also a lot of covers, which help you make abductions.
I'm still not sure about the scene when they shown us the Killing in motion, but there must be a way.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Really? I remember seeing the demo and going "Oh that's different -- but it seems like it'll be an awful lot like the originals" and I know it got a lot of fans going "OH NO" but this deserves it -- after Conviction with some vague promises of stealth as well and this first trailer combined it warranted the fear. Hitman? Notsomuch.

[harbi-117]

Ubisoft’s Patrick Redding has said the reason the developers went with an all-out action debut for Splinter Cell: Blacklist was so the game wouldn’t get lost “in the backdrop,” of other offerings during E3 2012.
We know what E3 is all about, no need for justifying Partick.

which brings me to my main point!!
c'mon, ubisoft! will it hurt to show a stealth playthrough of that demo now? instead of "in the coming months" :(

we know you guys have a marketing plan for Blacklist, a plan that's divided into 2 different marketing methods. One guided towards the action fans (ugh) & the other at Stealth fans.

Now, to my understanding... the E3 demo was for them & that's ok, I have no problem with that
but... then why that video that showcases Sam's gear was... missing a lot of gear like the spider camera for example (that was supposedly targeted at us)

what are you guys afraid of ?

[NightGhost1994]

We know what E3 is all about, no need for justifying Partick.

which brings me to my main point!!
c'mon, ubisoft! will it hurt to show a stealth playthrough of that demo now? instead of "in the coming months" http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20120113.419/images/smilies/frown.png

we know you guys have a marketing plan for Blacklist, a plan that's devided into 2 different marketing methods. One guided towards the action fans (ugh) & the other at Stealth fans.

Now, to my understanding... the E3 demo was for them & that's ok I have no problems with that
but... then why that video that showcases Sam's gear was... missing a lot of gear like the spider camera for example (that was supposedly targeted at us)

what are you guys afraid of?
I think we will see it at PAX

[harbi-117]

I think we will see it at PAX& when is PAX, NightGhost?

[mateus99]

& when is PAX, NightGhost?

31st august - 2nd september

long way to go...

[harbi-117]

^
* makes Sam Fisher's grunt noise when detected in CT *

[FrankieSatt]

This was the right move to make, in times like this you need to attract as many people as you can.


I believe they could have easily avoided this whole ruckus by making 2 demos, the first one MS event where they show what we saw, the 2nd one in Ubi's Conference or even Sony's to show a different take on the same demo, a stealth take, it would have been great for them,

I believe they will show amazing stealth gameplay, and I can't wait till they do, but they also need to appeal to the masses, something I understand, and I am still happy cause they are considering deep stealth, deep AI, and Ghost paths.

You can believe in them if you want, after the disgrace of Conviction I don't. I have yet to see or hear anything that makes me believe that they want Stealth in Blacklist, much less are willing to put it in the game.

[MonkeySoldier14]

31st august - 2nd september

long way to go...

Don't forget, Gamescom is August 15th-19th.

But I have a feeling we might see the stealthrough before then.

[Andre202]

We need to, we waited to long in Conviction...

[sameer_monier]

We need to, we waited to long in Conviction...
and even after when we thought they are going annual and will show it at 2011.

We need this at July at best.

[NightGhost1994]

We need this at July at best.
I hope. A dev diary would be nice too.

[sameer_monier]

You can believe in them if you want, after the disgrace of Conviction I don't. I have yet to see or hear anything that makes me believe that they want Stealth in Blacklist, much less are willing to put it in the game.well opinions that is, I enjoyed SCC alot, found it be a great part of SC, no disgrace at all, & Blacklist seems to carry on even bigger and better than SCC, adding all the elements that were missing, the animations aren't final, hence the delay in showing the stealthrough.yet again you may not share my taste

[CamberGreber]

well opinions that is, I enjoyed SCC alot, found it be a great part of SC, no disgrace at all, & Blacklist seems to carry on even bigger and better than SCC, adding all the elements that were missing, the animations aren't final, hence the delay in showing the stealthrough.yet again you may not share my taste

I agree. I think the reason that we haven't seen a Stealthrough is cause they spent the weeks leading up to E3 in crunch just to get the E3 Action demo preped and make sure it went well.

Since that demo was there focus it only makes sense that the stealth parts of the game are probably not polished enough to show to fans yet. Stuff like animations are far more important when moving slowly cause they would be more scrutinized by Legacy SC fans.

It will probably take a good while (months) to get these too a point in which they will be polished enough to meet our standards.

Remember that they only got set up last year and probably didn't leave pre-production stages till late last year to early this year. I know, I know that Zack has suggested that it will be coming along soon, but I always inferred that to really mean months.

[NightGhost1994]

Was this the video you were looking for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tK2CIIe8SD8#!
It's posted by JaRuTo
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/681955-Videos/page5

[sameer_monier]

I agree. I think the reason that we haven't seen a Stealthrough is cause they spent the weeks leading up to E3 in crunch just to get the E3 Action demo preped and make sure it went well.Since that demo was there focus it only makes sense that the stealth parts of the game are probably not polished enough to show to fans yet. Stuff like animations are far more important when moving slowly cause they would be more scrutinized by Legacy SC fans.It will probably take a good while (months) to get these too a point in which they will be polished enough to meet our standards.Remember that they only got set up last year and probably didn't leave pre-production stages till late last year to early this year. I know, I know that Zack has suggested that it will be coming along soon, but I always inferred that to really mean months.If Jade speech was any indications then yeah *Soon* means Months by Toronto standards LOL, we heard soon since 2011 and only saw it at E3 :DNot to mention I am not sure if they will change the level design or not, maybe there were parts of the map that aren't finished yet, hence the hands off demo.There is also the possibility that they are adding more speed animations, one can only hope.I believe they were set up from 2010 ?! (maybe even 2009), of course they kept growing ever since, maybe the 2nd IP took some of their time too.

[UbiZack]

If Jade speech was any indications then yeah *Soon* means Months by Toronto standards LOL, we heard soon since 2011 and only saw it at E3 :DNot to mention I am not sure if they will change the level design or not, maybe there were parts of the map that aren't finished yet, hence the hands off demo.There is also the possibility that they are adding more speed animations, one can only hope.I believe they were set up from 2010 ?! (maybe even 2009), of course they kept growing ever since, maybe the 2nd IP took some of their time too.

Just to clarify... the studio was set up in 2010, but the team is ever-expanding. It's an on-going process.
Also, the focus at Ubisoft Toronto is on making the biggest and best Splinter Cell.

[sameer_monier]

Give us MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE Zack :D

[NightGhost1994]

Give us MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE Zack
New 60 seconds stealth trailer would be great :D

[reddragonhrcro]

New 60 seconds stealth trailer would be great :D

Would like to see something like this(the cinematic part at start)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow_6mveaiA0

[mateus99]

Everyone watch the new video jaruto posted,there is a lot of new information like, interactivity with members of 4E that may or may not aprove of your methods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK2CIIe8SD8&feature=plcp

[NightGhost1994]

I've seen it a few hours ago and posted it to Andre's post. I hope that is the video he was talking about :D

[Andre202]

You mean the Gametrailers Video? That's not what I meant. It's the interview I wanted to have. ;)

[NightGhost1994]

http://t0ak.roblox.com/b5392c15659c4b433c2c6fd873408e69
Don't worry, it won't bite you

[Andre202]

Hmmm... he says there are different variations of interrogations. I actually think they should all differ from the ones you got in Conviction because they always forced you to clean an area before you interrogate someone.

[NightGhost1994]

I renember from Sage's video that there was a way to knock out or kill the man at the end. I hope to see more stuff.

[harbi-117]

Would like to see something like this(the cinematic part at start)Please, stop posting Double Agent's SvM videos... I can't handle the nostalgia anymore

for those who want a better quality version of the cinematic part:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvGfWK3-e5M

--------
Edit :

That Merc is lying, he didn't hear the sweat drop... he sensed him with the proximity sensor.
& That is why he caught the Spy off guard ( spy thought it was a true sequel to CT )...... ZING!

just joking guys :)

[reddragonhrcro]

Please, stop posting Double Agent's SvM videos... I can't handle the nostalgia anymore

for those who want a better quality version of the cinematic part:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvGfWK3-e5M

--------
Edit :

That Merc is lying, he didn't hear the sweat drop... he sensed him with the proximity sensor.
& That is why he caught the Spy off guard ( spy thought it was a true sequel to CT )...... ZING!

just joking guys :)

Been looking for this one!Good that you posted,would love to see a trailer for Blacklist SvM like this.

[Andre202]

I renember from Sage's video that there was a way to knock out or kill the man at the end. I hope to see more stuff.
First of all there is a "moral conflict" there which you won't see in the normal short demo.
Secondly, you needed to clear the area there too.

[NightGhost1994]

Secondly, you needed to clear the area there too.
Then how are you going to interrogate the guy if you are under fire? It would be nice to have an ability to switch to human shield (as in Co-op) and than return to normal interrogation, but it would be nice if AI could resist.

New signature :D NICE. What happend with BF3 one?

[Andre202]

Then how are you going to interrogate the guy if you are under fire? It would be nice to have an ability to switch to human shield (as in Co-op) and than return to normal interrogation, but it would be nice if AI could resist.
They can always change these things. They arent't written into stone or something which make them force to implement interrogations that are all guarded just like in Conviction.




New signature :D NICE. What happend with BF3 one?
Thanks.
Well, BF3 doesn't fit here I think. I registered here because of Splinter Cell not BF3. :D

[NightGhost1994]

They can always change these things. They written into stone or something which make them force to implement interrogations that are all guarded just like in Conviction.
Interrogations with Gramkos, Galliard and Reed were interesting. Gramkos was protected, but then he ran away and you catch him.

[Andre202]

Interrogations with Gramkos, Galliard and Reed were interesting. Gramkos was protected, but then he ran away and you catch him.

Gramkos was the only interrogation where you could avoid enemy contact. The second interrogation of Kobin was also a nice change to the regular guarded interrogations.

[Maher21]

Would like to see something like this(the cinematic part at start)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow_6mveaiA0

funny thing is after seeing that video, I really got a hankering for some SvsM, but I noticed that that video does not show how the game plays. At one point it is talking about dropping soft and It shows the guy land behind a merc and sneak away, but could never happen. The proxy detector would have screwed that guy over

[MANGAJEDI]

I really liked this find. Good work! :D I can just imagine myself running through the levels ghosting. >:) unless I feel like using my knife.

[MANGAJEDI]

They can always change these things. They arent't written into stone or something which make them force to implement interrogations that are all guarded just like in Conviction.




Thanks.
Well, BF3 doesn't fit here I think. I registered here because of Splinter Cell not BF3. :D

I can't wait to see what some of the interrogations are. It sounds like we'll be tracking people stealthily and then identifying them.

[Andre202]

I can't wait to see what some of the interrogations are. It sounds like we'll be tracking people stealthily and then identifying them.

I think that's the case, but I hope it doesn't end up in a action scene again.

[shobhit7777777]

I think that's the case, but I hope it doesn't end up in a action scene again.

This ^

IMHO the interrogations in Conviction were the most underwhelming part of the game. I was expecting more freedom...not scripted sequences. I wanted control over WHO I was interrogating and then obtaining TACTICAL information from them. Like in SCCT and SCPT. THAT is what makes interrogations fun...YOU decide whom to grab and ask questions. So when you do glean a certain bit of useful information...it felt rewarding.

I liked the Riddler's Informer mechanic in Batman AC. You had to single out one of Riddler's Informant (with information about all the trophies) and then single him out...that meant either stealthily taking out the other bad guys around him..or being extra precise when engaged in combat.

Although I doubt we will see non scripted sequences

[CamberGreber]

I just noticed something I hadn't before the prompt when interacting with context sensitive areas has been moved to the side of the HUD...thank god.

O and the arrows that where present in Conviction when moving to new cover have been removed. Phew

[codenameeric]

Explosive eh? If Splinter Cell was Tetris, Blacklist would put guns on the blocks so you could blast yourself a hole.

[The_5_Freedoms]

I just noticed something I hadn't before the prompt when interacting with context sensitive areas has been moved to the side of the HUD...thank god.
It has been like that for a while.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/8561840/640/8561840.png (http://picturepush.com/public/8561840)


O and the arrows that where present in Conviction when moving to new cover have been removed. Phew
They're still there.

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8561844/640/8561844.png (http://picturepush.com/public/8561844)

[mattduck69]

^^ hmm well, i have to be honest, i like the HUD for the blacklist and it seems LB is for gadgets now....does that mean B is crouch again?

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

^^ hmm well, i have to be honest, i like the HUD for the blacklist and it seems LB is for gadgets now....does that mean B is crouch again?

I think so because when he's on the ledge to call the guard over and pull the guard off, it says B to Drop which implies it'd also be used for crouching kind of like CT (can't remember if SAR and PT did it this way...I know to drop in SAR you can push down) where you push B and your drop from a ledge.

[mattduck69]

^^im fairly certain all of the splinter cells had the B for crouch.
since on the controller topic. I wonder what the control scheme will be like

[CamberGreber]

[QUOTE=The_5_Freedoms;8409831]It has been like that for a while.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/8561840/640/8561840.png (http://picturepush.com/public/8561840)


I personally hate the one covering the window and it looked as if it was missing in the E3 footage.

Concerning the Move to cover prompt still being in there ...dammit

[sameer_monier]

I personally hate the one covering the window and it looked as if it was missing in the E3 footage.

I too don't like the prompts that much


Concerning the Move to cover prompt still being in there ...dammit

Are you against the Cover to Cover Mechanic itself or the Direction Arrows ?!.
Personally speaking I found the C2C Mechanic to be really amazing, can use improvements like speed control, but it was hell of a feature.

If you are talking about the Arrows though, any suggestion in case it is removed, how would the player know where he is going when he is using the C2C ?!

[harbi-117]

[QUOTE=The_5_Freedoms;8409831]It has been like that for a while.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/8561840/640/8561840.png (http://picturepush.com/public/8561840)


I personally hate the one covering the window and it looked as if it was missing in the E3 footage.

Concerning the Move to cover prompt still being in there ...dammit
ugh I remember hating it when I just got Conviction. I was smashing through glass windows instead of opening them lol
you have to put the cursor on a tiny specific area, any slight move on the left or right stick will change it to smash through window

[codenameeric]

I was sad to see the prompt at the base of the cliff Sam climbed. Prompts like that remove the problem-solving puzzle aspect of exploring the world. Imagine how much less fun Chaos theory would have been if these sorts of prompts guided you. Plus, it looks like climbing that cliff was automatic. All the player has to to is move the thumbstick. You can't fall and you can't fail. So, what's the point? Where's the game aspect in all of this?

[Andre202]

I was sad to see the prompt at the base of the cliff Sam climbed. Prompts like that remove the problem-solving puzzle aspect of exploring the world. Imagine how much less fun Chaos theory would have been if these sorts of prompts guided you. Plus, it looks like climbing that cliff was automatic. All the player has to to is move the thumbstick. You can't fall and you can't fail. So, what's the point? Where's the game aspect in all of this?

Exactly. Remember in SAR the President Palace in Georgia at the beginning? You had to climb, not the game.

[CoastalGirl]

Exactly. Remember in SAR the President Palace in Georgia at the beginning? You had to climb, not the game.I double-jumped off that cliff more times than I care to remember... lol

But it's still one of my favorite levels in the series!

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I double-jumped off that cliff more times than I care to remember... lol

But it's still one of my favorite levels in the series!

This. It's a cool infiltration sequence that's a little videogamey but still really cool.

[codenameeric]

The beginning of the presidential palace is one of my favorite parts in the whole series.I remember the tension I felt the first time and how startled I was by the bell. Yes, it was a bit gamey buy I loved it. I felt like such a pro infiltrating that way.

Now, not to get all negative, but imagine if those pipes and ledges had floating promts on them. Imagine if the game jumped and climed for you. Imagine if it was impossible to jump in the wrong place. Would that be fun?

Remember Isreal? You are advised to get to the rooftop but no one tells you how. You find the pipe. You find your way. There is great satisfaction in that. Remember the street approaching the broadcast station? That was amazing. We have lost so much.

Now, we don't control Sam - we guide him. We say 'hey Sam, go there' and he does. And on top of that, the game guides us. Markers... Prompts... We no longer really 'play a game' - we follow along and initiate actions that take place automatically. It's sad to see.

I don't think Ubi has any basis for such stupification.

[KenTWOu]

I don't think Ubi has any basis for such stupification.
Assassin's Creed

[SolidSage]

Now, not to get all negative, but imagine if those pipes and ledges had floating promts on them. Imagine if the game jumped and climed for you. Imagine if it was impossible to jump in the wrong place. Would that be fun?


You don't get the prompts until you are actually AT the pipes in Conviction though. So it's basically a marker that says (when you are next to an action object) that YES, this item is actionable. Not necessary for you and me and deep players maybe, but casual guys and girls sitting on a box in cover might need that C2C arrow to remind them that they can do it.

Took me ages to find the route in to White Box the first time I played through it. There wasn't any direction arrow telling me where to look for a pipe to climb. I had to find the pipe first, then when I was right on top of it the action prompt came up. Almost like all it does is remind you which button performs the action.

Turning them OFF would be a nice option but I don't think they are an auto feature in any way at all.


@Kentwou
I don't think Creed is that good of an example because EVERYTHING is climbable in that game, so prompts really aren't necessary. Splinter Cell has always been one of those games where only specific items and areas are interactable, hence the need, perhaps, for prompts/reminders.

[Andre202]

I think what the people forget is actually the ability to jump. It's actually funny that noone came to ask about such a basic "feature".
Actually that's where the difference is coming on of having a prompt that might feel like you guide Sam and don't actually play him. Remember what UbiRazz said about that? A lot were raging about that because you could only do the things which the game allowed you to do, which the developers thought would only make sense in Conviction and the feature of a simple Jump wasn't there because it doesn't make sense when a player is just jumping in the middle of nowhere. But the player didn't just use Jumping in the middle of nowhere but also on pipes and as a way to distract the NPC if nothing was around to grab and throw. Earlier you might be able to hide on a desk if it was dark enough, you could do the split-jump. Now you are just able to slide over desks and other things. But you aren't able to stay on these things.

Without the Jump-Button the game does a lot for you. While earlier you needed to control the direction to where you jump exactly to be able to climb on the pipes, on ledges, on zip lines, etc., the game does exactly that now for you. So if you use the button prompt in Conviction, you will never fail to make the move you wanted to make but earlier you were able to fail. You were able to jump in the wrong direction and fall down when you failed to jump to the zip line. You were able to fall down in previous games. That's not possible in Conviction anymore. You cannot fall down from somewhere because the game always asks you before if you really want to climb down. If you are for example in the Whitebox climbing around, you cannot fall down into death. It's not possible the game doesn't give you the option there. You can't fail. So people don't care if they are running torwards an edge. In previous games you were supposed to move a bit slowlier so Sam would be able to grab the egde and don't fall into death. Now the game is taking care for you.

[sameer_monier]

^^ A very good point there Andre.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Yeah AC, practically everything has been climbable 'cept trees. Well now they will be.

As for SC, the pipes have always seemed "conveniently" placed btw but still generally in believable areas and stuff. I didn't like how there were pipes EVERYWHERE in SCC or ledges EVERYWHERE in SCC. It provided freedom yes, but the environments felt so fake. One mission which could have been really cool was White Box. Cool infiltration but the pipes were so weird on the side of the building...then you get inside the warehouse looking exterior and you find there's an office...inside another building with giant pipes and catwalks and...this place seems so fake. Maybe it's a real place but it didnt seem real. At all. Nevermind the invisible alert triggers but the amount of ledges outside windows and pipes was ridiculous >.<

At least the E3 demo looked like a real environment. Hope they all have a more realistic feel.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I think what the people forget is actually the ability to jump. It's actually funny that noone came to ask about such a basic "feature".
Actually that's where the difference is coming on of having a prompt that might feel like you guide Sam and don't actually play him. Remember what UbiRazz said about that? A lot were raging about that because you could only do the things which the game allowed you to do, which the developers thought would only make sense in Conviction and the feature of a simple Jump wasn't there because it doesn't make sense when a player is just jumping in the middle of nowhere. But the player didn't just use Jumping in the middle of nowhere but also on pipes and as a way to distract the NPC if nothing was around to grab and throw. Earlier you might be able to hide on a desk if it was dark enough, you could do the split-jump. Now you are just able to slide over desks and other things. But you aren't able to stay on these things.

Without the Jump-Button the game does a lot for you. While earlier you needed to control the direction to where you jump exactly to be able to climb on the pipes, on ledges, on zip lines, etc., the game does exactly that now for you. So if you use the button prompt in Conviction, you will never fail to make the move you wanted to make but earlier you were able to fail. You were able to jump in the wrong direction and fall down when you failed to jump to the zip line. You were able to fall down in previous games. That's not possible in Conviction anymore. You cannot fall down from somewhere because the game always asks you before if you really want to climb down. If you are for example in the Whitebox climbing around, you cannot fall down into death. It's not possible the game doesn't give you the option there. You can't fail. So people don't care if they are running torwards an edge. In previous games you were supposed to move a bit slowlier so Sam would be able to grab the egde and don't fall into death. Now the game is taking care for you.

VERY well said. If they got rid of the prompt to fall off a ledge and instead if you run off, you run off, but if you slowly approach it and drop, you'll grab the ledge, then that'd be great. They should make the athletic button Y. You can jump onto desks with it and hide there, jump and make noise or run up to a ledge SCC style when near a ledge. If you use the A button "sprint" feature (used for killing in motion and stuff) in order to slide over desks -- I'd be happy with that. Does everyone get what I mean?

[michaelanjello]

VERY well said. If they got rid of the prompt to fall off a ledge and instead if you run off, you run off, but if you slowly approach it and drop, you'll grab the ledge, then that'd be great. They should make the athletic button Y. You can jump onto desks with it and hide there, jump and make noise or run up to a ledge SCC style when near a ledge. If you use the A button "sprint" feature (used for killing in motion and stuff) in order to slide over desks -- I'd be happy with that. Does everyone get what I mean?


This actually makes alot of sense since running off a ledge or platform(while holding a) will cause u to die, while press a (i think keeping it the same button would make more sense) will cause u to jump if youre on the ground or wherevr or it will cause you to climb over the ledge. This will avoid this like running the end of a building and just dropping down unnaturaly and grabbing the ledge. If youre running however and then you slide then its possible to grab on otherwise you die.

Also, not a big fan of on screen promts as well as waypoints. Theres no point in a game if it rewards players for not thinking. The game should reward players for playing smart. It not only makes the game more memorable, but it also teaches players to THINK. THe game IS a Tom Clancy game. You have to think.......right?!

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

This actually makes alot of sense since running off a ledge or platform(while holding a) will cause u to die, while press a (i think keeping it the same button would make more sense) will cause u to jump if youre on the ground or wherevr or it will cause you to climb over the ledge. This will avoid this like running the end of a building and just dropping down unnaturaly and grabbing the ledge. If youre running however and then you slide then its possible to grab on otherwise you die.

Also, not a big fan of on screen promts as well as waypoints. Theres no point in a game if it rewards players for not thinking. The game should reward players for playing smart. It not only makes the game more memorable, but it also teaches players to THINK. THe game IS a Tom Clancy game. You have to think.......right?!

I meant A should be for picking up weapons or opening doors, X for Koing/killing people and picking up bodies, and Y for ahtletic anything. Holding it down while already moving will initiate a run maybe or something. Here's my "dream" control set up.

LS - Player movement; variable speed, clicking it will zoom in a second time if already zoomed in and if the weapon permits it
RS - Camera control, clicking it once will zoom in with a weapon whether it's with a scope or not, clicking it again will exit the zoom
A - Interaction button -- Open doors, pick up weapons, open windows, optic cable, etc.; when an Execute is ready (after Marking at least one enemy) then holding A will start the Mark and Execute and pressing in a direction with LS will do Killing In Motion
B - Crouch, Hold to roll
X - Alt. Interaction button -- Press to Kill/KO (depending on Karambit), Hold to Pick-Up body, Once body is picked up pressing it again will drop the body to the floor quickly while holding it again will place the body gently down which is quieter, Bashes doors (as long as you're not carrying a body), Holding X while at a door will initiate Open Door Stealth
Y - Athletic button -- Press to jump, When below a ledge holding Y will result in the wall run to ledge from SCC, when in a small corridor holding Y will result in the split jump, while running pressing Y will result in a leap (a long jump that is useful for crossing gaps)
LT - Cover button -- hold to get into and stay in cover, while standing you will stand while in cover (if there is room, if not the game will put you into crouch cover), if crouched you will crouch while in cover
RT - Fire weapon
LB - Gadgets -- Press to use current gadget, Hold for Gadget Menu
RB - Hold to Whistle/Lure, Press to Mark a target
Start - Menu -- Resume, Load, Quicksave, Save, Restart, Settings, Quit Game, etc.
Back - OPSAT -- Read objectives, review notes and data about objectives and targets, read collected info, etc.
D-Pad Up - Press to swap between having Karambit ready or not, when ready you will perform Lethal Takedowns and when not ready you will perform Nonlethal Takedowns
D-Pad Down - Press to swap between weapons (pistol, rifle, special weapon like crossbow), Hold to put gun away
D-Pad Left - Vision Mode 1 (can be Sonar, NVG, Thermal, EMF, ENVG, etc.)
D-Pad Right - Vision Mode 2 (can be Sonar, NVG, Thermal, EMF, ENVG, etc.)


That was the best control system I could think of that incorporates my wants for gameplay in SCB with what's already confirmed and what essentially blends classic controller setup with the new. Idk, maybe you have better but I tried to not clutter things too badly...Maybe I did... >.<

I made the sprint button A because Y is jump so it'd be frustrating if you wanted to jump but you marked an enemy so the game makes you execute them instead of jumping. Also A was used only for "pressing" and not "holding" functions which is how I decided to make the "Execute" half of M&E work based on the controls. That way you don't press it accidentally, you have to hold it to intentionally kill your enemies when you plan and want to. I figured this would be best. Maybe I'm wrong, you guys can tell me.

[codenameeric]

Assassin's Creed

I was thinking the same thing when I wrote that! The thing is, they made that game, so they have no basis for it besides themselves :p

[codenameeric]

You don't get the prompts until you are actually AT the pipes in Conviction though. So it's basically a marker that says (when you are next to an action object) that YES, this item is actionable. Not necessary for you and me and deep players maybe, but casual guys and girls sitting on a box in cover might need that C2C arrow to remind them that they can do it.

Took me ages to find the route in to White Box the first time I played through it. There wasn't any direction arrow telling me where to look for a pipe to climb. I had to find the pipe first, then when I was right on top of it the action prompt came up. Almost like all it does is remind you which button performs the action.

Turning them OFF would be a nice option but I don't think they are an auto feature in any way at all.


@Kentwou
I don't think Creed is that good of an example because EVERYTHING is climbable in that game, so prompts really aren't necessary. Splinter Cell has always been one of those games where only specific items and areas are interactable, hence the need, perhaps, for prompts/reminders.

Dude, watch the Blacklist gameplay trailer and notice when the prompt comes up to climb the cliff.

[codenameeric]

I think what the people forget is actually the ability to jump. It's actually funny that noone came to ask about such a basic "feature".
Actually that's where the difference is coming on of having a prompt that might feel like you guide Sam and don't actually play him. Remember what UbiRazz said about that? A lot were raging about that because you could only do the things which the game allowed you to do, which the developers thought would only make sense in Conviction and the feature of a simple Jump wasn't there because it doesn't make sense when a player is just jumping in the middle of nowhere. But the player didn't just use Jumping in the middle of nowhere but also on pipes and as a way to distract the NPC if nothing was around to grab and throw. Earlier you might be able to hide on a desk if it was dark enough, you could do the split-jump. Now you are just able to slide over desks and other things. But you aren't able to stay on these things.

Without the Jump-Button the game does a lot for you. While earlier you needed to control the direction to where you jump exactly to be able to climb on the pipes, on ledges, on zip lines, etc., the game does exactly that now for you. So if you use the button prompt in Conviction, you will never fail to make the move you wanted to make but earlier you were able to fail. You were able to jump in the wrong direction and fall down when you failed to jump to the zip line. You were able to fall down in previous games. That's not possible in Conviction anymore. You cannot fall down from somewhere because the game always asks you before if you really want to climb down. If you are for example in the Whitebox climbing around, you cannot fall down into death. It's not possible the game doesn't give you the option there. You can't fail. So people don't care if they are running torwards an edge. In previous games you were supposed to move a bit slowlier so Sam would be able to grab the egde and don't fall into death. Now the game is taking care for you.

I totally agree. I miss the ability to jump sooooo much. I can't believe that they don't think removing it is an issue. Only allowing you to jump when it 'makes sense' to jump is like only allowing you to shoot when you're on target. And the worst thing is 'you' aren't actually jumping - you're giving Sam the 'authorization' to perform a jump perfectly. It's the jumping equivalent of auto-aim. Or, it's like clicking 'next'.

[KenTWOu]

Without the Jump-Button the game does a lot for you. While earlier you needed to control the direction to where you jump exactly to be able to climb on the pipes, on ledges, on zip lines, etc., the game does exactly that now for you. So if you use the button prompt in Conviction, you will never fail to make the move you wanted to make but earlier you were able to fail. You were able to jump in the wrong direction and fall down when you failed to jump to the zip line. You were able to fall down in previous games. That's not possible in Conviction anymore.
Reminds me about this carefully hidden bottle (http://i40.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0625/75/95df63ae60ec42512a08aa9e46c97b75.jpg)!

[Ristar85]

I totally agree. I miss the ability to jump sooooo much. I can't believe that they don't think removing it is an issue. Only allowing you to jump when it 'makes sense' to jump is like only allowing you to shoot when you're on target. And the worst thing is 'you' aren't actually jumping - you're giving Sam the 'authorization' to perform a jump perfectly. It's the jumping equivalent of auto-aim. Or, it's like clicking 'next'.

wait till the u r in a big gunfight and u wanna jump onto a pipe but end up walking slowly to a weapon nearby like a moron and then picking it up.

and then u start over. LOL.

[shobhit7777777]

VERY well said. If they got rid of the prompt to fall off a ledge and instead if you run off, you run off, but if you slowly approach it and drop, you'll grab the ledge, then that'd be great. They should make the athletic button Y. You can jump onto desks with it and hide there, jump and make noise or run up to a ledge SCC style when near a ledge. If you use the A button "sprint" feature (used for killing in motion and stuff) in order to slide over desks -- I'd be happy with that. Does everyone get what I mean?


I'll disagree here....whenever I double jumped and failed I was frustrated because the character lacked the physical precision that I MAY have in real life. It immediately broke immersion when the character did a jump animation, collided with protruding geometry and landed back. Super Spy he was not.

In real life, I know not to jump of cliffs and know exactly when and how to drop/grab from/on to ledges. This part of the physicality should be absolutely precise...I would expect my in-game character to have that innate common sense. So whenever I traversed the environment it not only looked good but felt intuitive, as a I looked at things, pressed the right but-ton and had my character do exactly what I wanted him to.....except whenever he jumped out the window instead of a desk XD

[KenTWOu]

wait till the u r in a big gunfight and u wanna jump onto a pipe but end up walking slowly to a weapon nearby like a moron and then picking it up.
You should hold the X button to pick up a weapon in Blacklist.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I'll disagree here....whenever I double jumped and failed I was frustrated because the character lacked the physical precision that I MAY have in real life. It immediately broke immersion when the character did a jump animation, collided with protruding geometry and landed back. Super Spy he was not.

In real life, I know not to jump of cliffs and know exactly when and how to drop/grab from/on to ledges. This part of the physicality should be absolutely precise...I would expect my in-game character to have that innate common sense. So whenever I traversed the environment it not only looked good but felt intuitive, as a I looked at things, pressed the right but-ton and had my character do exactly what I wanted him to.....except whenever he jumped out the window instead of a desk XD

But that's like saying if you die, it breaks immersion. I mean, yes to an extent it does because you have to reload but really? You want to have invincibility added in too? I want to be able to screw up just as I could in real life.If I was being reckless and ran to an edge. not paying attention, I'd fall off. Also, what if it's not a "death" ledge? Like one that's kind of high up, but you want to run off without slowly dropping off..? Nope, not happening with the prompts. I wanna run off and land in a roll -- instead I immediately stop as if hitting an invisible wall and have to look down til the prompt appears in order to then drop to the ledge and then finally drop down. So...THAT breaks immersion...

[shobhit7777777]

But that's like saying if you die, it breaks immersion. I mean, yes to an extent it does because you have to reload but really? You want to have invincibility added in too? I want to be able to screw up just as I could in real life.If I was being reckless and ran to an edge. not paying attention, I'd fall off. Also, what if it's not a "death" ledge? Like one that's kind of high up, but you want to run off without slowly dropping off..? Nope, not happening with the prompts. I wanna run off and land in a roll -- instead I immediately stop as if hitting an invisible wall and have to look down til the prompt appears in order to then drop to the ledge and then finally drop down. So...THAT breaks immersion...

No its not....not even remotely close to considering death as an immersion breaker. You do screw up but not doing simple things like jumping, running and shimmying....if you do, well...*shrugs

Would you IRL be "reckless" and run off a ledge?

Would you IRL jump and NOT be able to grab a ledge because you were 2 mm off?

Sorry...but when I see my agent jumping up and down a couple of times..for a simple thing that he/she SHOULD be fully capable of doing in real life...my Immersion meter takes a dip.

You do have a point about the non-lethal drops. They should definitely add an option for that. Apart from that, going back to the previous "jump when you want" mode would lead to aforementioned immersion killing moments for the BOTH of us...yeah it won't be a game-breaker in the slightest..but definitely a slight drizzle on the experience.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

No its not....not even remotely close to considering death as an immersion breaker. You do screw up but not doing simple things like jumping, running and shimmying....if you do, well...*shrugs

Would you IRL be "reckless" and run off a ledge?

Would you IRL jump and NOT be able to grab a ledge because you were 2 mm off?

Sorry...but when I see my agent jumping up and down a couple of times..for a simple thing that he/she SHOULD be fully capable of doing in real life...my Immersion meter takes a dip.

You do have a point about the non-lethal drops. They should definitely add an option for that. Apart from that, going back to the previous "jump when you want" mode would lead to aforementioned immersion killing moments for the BOTH of us...yeah it won't be a game-breaker in the slightest..but definitely a slight drizzle on the experience.

But I like having the freedom. I wouldn't be running around carelessly in real life, but that's the thing. I want to actually observe where I'm going and if I don't properly analyze the area...well I want to be able to slip off a cliff I hadn't noticed or whatever the case may be. You have a point with the whole jumping at something you should be able to but not being able to do so thing but if they made those instances where you could climb on it...then there'd be no problem. Alternatively, I've mentioned before that, rather than having prompts and using A to scale a wall and grab a ledge, instead you would use Y. The classic jump button. Rather than waiting for the prompt, when you're near the wall and press Y it would do what was done in SCC (the wallrun to ledgegrab). All these instances are good. Therefore I don't have to see "Jump" on a ledge or whatever. It's all about knowing the systems and they're not too hard to learn. Some of the prompts should remain "open door" for example but I think they should minimize and get rid of all but the essential ones. They should only appear when right near the object as well.

If you give the jumping and athletic abilities to Y as opposed to A, you really don't have an immersion killer. You press Y and run up to the ledge. Cool. If you're at a door, press A and open it. No mess ups. If you're at a window and want to open it instead of jumping through it and shattering it and alerting enemies, you push A to open it/close it and Y to jump out.

Do you get what I'm saying? As for nonlethal drops, I guess we're in agreement? I should be able to drop off. If you're running toward an edge but wanna grab onto it, hold B right before flying off it. If you wanna leap off it, hold Y before jumping off, if you wanna just run straight off -- keep going. If you slowly approach an edge, you should at some point drop to the ledge. As for lethal drops, I believe you should be able to drop off for your own incompetence at not paying attention. It's not that hard to notice a huge cliff to your right -- don't fall off. haha

But yes, the mindless jumping at something that isn't programmed to let you climb it did suck at times. It never bothered me but I wouldn't be sad at the disappearance. In fact, the system I've just mentioned would be almost identical to both CT and SCC only unlike CT there's no free jumping around. The actual jump in CT is almost never used if I recall correctly. The "jump" button was more of what I described. You used it to slide onto the tops of low things like desks or boxes, used it in a hall where he ran up the side and into a splitjump, etc. The only other time it was semi useful was jumping onto ladders to shave off time, but really, with the increased scaling speeds, this doesn't matter. In fact, the speed at which Sam/Archer/Kestrel scale pipes vertically (fastest speed) is the only realistic fast speed scaling in SCC (as opposed to the ledge shimmy and horizontal pipe fast speeds) maybe not for a 50 year old but a 50 year old doing this line of work from the start was a bit of a stretch as was a 50 year old doing the splits. I'll buy the fast vertical pipe climb so long as it is louder. It's dumb that it's silent. Anyway...yeah.

EDIT: Oh yeah the jump was used to get onto horizontal pipes overhead. again though, presing Y under it would be like CT and SCC only there's no need for a prompt. Also Prompts were silly in that they sort of "slid" a certain amount before disappearing allowing for one to see theprompt further down the pipe than where he was at and pushing A would magically teleport him to that indicated spot -- uhhh...whaaa??? Having the Y button would solve this as well -- it only works for where you're at (no prompts or anything). So you push Y under a pipe and you jump up to it. That way the game doesn't have to say "jump here" everywhere, you just know. Let's say something is NOT possible to climb on (although all things the player should somehow know will be able to climb...) pushing Y would result in no animation. No animation means no action. Knowing there's no action available, player moves on without trying like an idiot.

[shobhit7777777]

@Bob

Separating athletic actions with interactive actions would solve this issue.

For nonlethal drops you can have your character either jumping down if the hang is small enough (like it does) or walk off the edge and the character grabs on (for those drops where the fall won't kill you but it is high enough for you to shimmy around.


As for lethal drops, I believe you should be able to drop off for your own incompetence at not paying attention. It's not that hard to notice a huge cliff to your right -- don't fall off. haha

Naaah...whenever I dropped off a ledge in a game, it was because of controller/sensitivity issues. That's not player incompetency...that's just player-machine input lag ;)
Like I said, In real life it is not a chore for me to go riiiiiight up to the edge...it shouldn't be a chore in-game. Otherwise it leads to player-character disconnect.
I want absolute precision.


In fact, the system I've just mentioned would be almost identical to both CT and SCC only unlike CT there's no free jumping around. The actual jump in CT is almost never used if I recall correctly

the perfect hybrid


Sam/Archer/Kestrel scale pipes vertically (fastest speed) is the only realistic fast speed scaling in SCC (as opposed to the ledge shimmy and horizontal pipe fast speeds)

The horizontal pipe shimmy speed is perfectly doable IRL. Any ex-military guy would tell you.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

@Bob

Separating athletic actions with interactive actions would solve this issue.

For nonlethal drops you can have your character either jumping down if the hang is small enough (like it does) or walk off the edge and the character grabs on (for those drops where the fall won't kill you but it is high enough for you to shimmy around.



Naaah...whenever I dropped off a ledge in a game, it was because of controller/sensitivity issues. That's not player incompetency...that's just player-machine input lag ;)
Like I said, In real life it is not a chore for me to go riiiiiight up to the edge...it shouldn't be a chore in-game. Otherwise it leads to player-character disconnect.
I want absolute precision.



the perfect hybrid



The horizontal pipe shimmy speed is perfectly doable IRL. Any ex-military guy would tell you.

PERFECT hybrid haha.

And I doubt it's silent. Mainly I'm just mad at the ledge hang/shimmy speed. That one is not real and I will not budge on that stance. The other ones were doablae it's just the sound thats the issue for those. I don't care about the ledge speed though cause I didn't mind too much doing my tactic of pushing slowly in one direction and then briefly stopping and then repeating because it made it look like the classic ledge shimmy and felt like I was moving each arm...

Oh and you'd think Batman would have better controllers haha :p

Actually yes that's an issue . I wish games could sense defunct controllers. lol super futuristic. I still think the ability to fail that way should be there. But how often are you going to be near cliffsides in the game? Better yet, cliffsides or long falls with no type of railing?

[CamberGreber]

I meant A should be for picking up weapons or opening doors, X for Koing/killing people and picking up bodies, and Y for ahtletic anything. Holding it down while already moving will initiate a run maybe or something. Here's my "dream" control set up.

LS - Player movement; variable speed, clicking it will zoom in a second time if already zoomed in and if the weapon permits it
RS - Camera control, clicking it once will zoom in with a weapon whether it's with a scope or not, clicking it again will exit the zoom
A - Interaction button -- Open doors, pick up weapons, open windows, optic cable, etc.; when an Execute is ready (after Marking at least one enemy) then holding A will start the Mark and Execute and pressing in a direction with LS will do Killing In Motion
B - Crouch, Hold to roll
X - Alt. Interaction button -- Press to Kill/KO (depending on Karambit), Hold to Pick-Up body, Once body is picked up pressing it again will drop the body to the floor quickly while holding it again will place the body gently down which is quieter, Bashes doors (as long as you're not carrying a body), Holding X while at a door will initiate Open Door Stealth
Y - Athletic button -- Press to jump, When below a ledge holding Y will result in the wall run to ledge from SCC, when in a small corridor holding Y will result in the split jump, while running pressing Y will result in a leap (a long jump that is useful for crossing gaps)
LT - Cover button -- hold to get into and stay in cover, while standing you will stand while in cover (if there is room, if not the game will put you into crouch cover), if crouched you will crouch while in cover
RT - Fire weapon
LB - Gadgets -- Press to use current gadget, Hold for Gadget Menu
RB - Hold to Whistle/Lure, Press to Mark a target
Start - Menu -- Resume, Load, Quicksave, Save, Restart, Settings, Quit Game, etc.
Back - OPSAT -- Read objectives, review notes and data about objectives and targets, read collected info, etc.
D-Pad Up - Press to swap between having Karambit ready or not, when ready you will perform Lethal Takedowns and when not ready you will perform Nonlethal Takedowns
D-Pad Down - Press to swap between weapons (pistol, rifle, special weapon like crossbow), Hold to put gun away
D-Pad Left - Vision Mode 1 (can be Sonar, NVG, Thermal, EMF, ENVG, etc.)
D-Pad Right - Vision Mode 2 (can be Sonar, NVG, Thermal, EMF, ENVG, etc.)


That was the best control system I could think of that incorporates my wants for gameplay in SCB with what's already confirmed and what essentially blends classic controller setup with the new. Idk, maybe you have better but I tried to not clutter things too badly...Maybe I did... >.<

I made the sprint button A because Y is jump so it'd be frustrating if you wanted to jump but you marked an enemy so the game makes you execute them instead of jumping. Also A was used only for "pressing" and not "holding" functions which is how I decided to make the "Execute" half of M&E work based on the controls. That way you don't press it accidentally, you have to hold it to intentionally kill your enemies when you plan and want to. I figured this would be best. Maybe I'm wrong, you guys can tell me.

You forgot LT for Nonlethal and RT for Lethal.

[CamberGreber]

O and L3 for Change hand position when using gun.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

O and L3 for Change hand position when using gun.

I did the most important things, and you use X for takedowns when next to the enemy. As much as I'd prefer LT/RT I tried combining confirmed controls with my "hope" controls. So in order to do LT/RT you have to equip the knife or unequip it by pushing up on the D-Pad. As for switching shoulders.....is that needed with the new shooting style....? it was only useful for looking around corners and since you can hold the rifle while in cover and then look around you already have it? Plus the first two games didnt have it so I wouldn't mind although I did​ use it extensively when I could haha

[Dieinthedark]

As far as LT/RT for lethal nonlethal, why couldn't they just make it like B starts the hand to hand kills and then you pull LT/RT as like a modifier? Still same effect and kinda button pushy I guess...

[Andre202]

Reminds me about this carefully hidden bottle (http://i40.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0625/75/95df63ae60ec42512a08aa9e46c97b75.jpg)!

Now imagine SCCT would have the same design there as Conviction. You wouldn't be able to get to that bottle. While that's not really important it adds a lot to the Sandbox feel of the game. Another thing that just got into my mind. Does Conviction actually have ladders? I don't remember there were any, except the ones you just "overjumped" because they were to small.




No its not....not even remotely close to considering death as an immersion breaker. You do screw up but not doing simple things like jumping, running and shimmying....if you do, well...*shrugs

Would you IRL be "reckless" and run off a ledge?

Would you IRL jump and NOT be able to grab a ledge because you were 2 mm off?

Sorry...but when I see my agent jumping up and down a couple of times..for a simple thing that he/she SHOULD be fully capable of doing in real life...my Immersion meter takes a dip.

You do have a point about the non-lethal drops. They should definitely add an option for that. Apart from that, going back to the previous "jump when you want" mode would lead to aforementioned immersion killing moments for the BOTH of us...yeah it won't be a game-breaker in the slightest..but definitely a slight drizzle on the experience.
Since you merge in the Real Life aspect into discussion. In Real Life you wouldn't run torwards a ledge, you would approach it slowly to see how deep you would fall and if you would take any damage jumping down there or at least to survive that jump. If you run torwards a ledge though, you wouldn't be able to stop exactly at the ledge. You would proprably slide away and maybe you are able to hold on the ledge, but there is no guarantee you would be able to hold there. In Conviction when you are running torwards a ledge you are able to do a "planned" slide where Sam is already having his hands ready to hold on the ledge and that's completely believeable and realizable. Not the running torwards edge and feeling like you are running against a wall though, that's not really believeable and it shouldn't be possible. At the end it's your fault if you didn't take care of that ledge.
If you are running you should fall down of the ledge, if you approach it slowlier you shouldn't and stand at the ledge the way as it's in Conviction. The question of whether you would do it in real life doesn't really fit here though. What you think and what you do are two different things. You wouldn't do what Sam does in Real Life anyway.

Jumping and not being able to grab the ledge because you were a few centimeters off is is pretty much possible in real life too. Failing at such things is annoying but isn't really an immersion braker in my opinion because I can fail at grabbing the ledge just as well, although I am fully capable of grabbing it. But I think Bob mentioned already what can solve that problem and I like his idea a lot.

[sameer_monier]

Now imagine SCCT would have the same design there as Conviction. You wouldn't be able to get to that bottle. While that's not really important it adds a lot to the Sandbox feel of the game. Another thing that just got into my mind. Does Conviction actually have ladders? I don't remember there were any, except the ones you just "overjumped" because they were to small.
you gotta be kidding me, I didn't even know about that bottle. :D

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Now imagine SCCT would have the same design there as Conviction. You wouldn't be able to get to that bottle. While that's not really important it adds a lot to the Sandbox feel of the game. Another thing that just got into my mind. Does Conviction actually have ladders? I don't remember there were any, except the ones you just "overjumped" because they were to small.




Since you merge in the Real Life aspect into discussion. In Real Life you wouldn't run torwards a ledge, you would approach it slowly to see how deep you would fall and if you would take any damage jumping down there or at least to survive that jump. If you run torwards a ledge though, you wouldn't be able to stop exactly at the ledge. You would proprably slide away and maybe you are able to hold on the ledge, but there is no guarantee you would be able to hold there. In Conviction when you are running torwards a ledge you are able to do a "planned" slide where Sam is already having his hands ready to hold on the ledge and that's completely believeable and realizable. Not the running torwards edge and feeling like you are running against a wall though, that's not really believeable and it shouldn't be possible. At the end it's your fault if you didn't take care of that ledge.
If you are running you should fall down of the ledge, if you approach it slowlier you shouldn't and stand at the ledge the way as it's in Conviction. The question of whether you would do it in real life doesn't really fit here though. What you think and what you do are two different things. You wouldn't do what Sam does in Real Life anyway.

Jumping and not being able to grab the ledge because you were a few centimeters off is is pretty much possible in real life too. Failing at such things is annoying but isn't really an immersion braker in my opinion because I can fail at grabbing the ledge just as well, although I am fully capable of grabbing it. But I think Bob mentioned already what can solve that problem and I like his idea a lot.

Thanks Andre. :D

It just seems the best way to blend both aspects of CT and C together and create the least frustrating outcome for all parties.

And nope, no ladders. Just pipes...ledges...and more pipes. And pipes again. Everywhere. Doesn't matter. You name a spot. A pipe's there.

[Andre202]

Ahh, I know now why they (ladders) aren't there. It would slow down the gameplay..... :nonchalance:

Instead of lasers: "Ladders? Ladders are so..." .... you know? :)

[michaelanjello]

The ladder mechanics in all the SC games felt so.....solid. They felt right and proper. They didnt feel clunky and I think they probably were the best animation for ladder climbing Ive seen in any game thus far. Its a shame that its gone.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I'm hoping they reintroduce ladders, dogs, weather effects, NVG, thermal, variable speed, realistic environments, spectrum shadows not binary, slower gameplay IF YOU WANT, a Classic mode, co-op moves, the splitjump, and pretty much everything from Legacy but done in a way that isn't necessarily forced on players but can still be played and feel classic. Or if the classic mode is there, force us to play the old way while the other modes and difficulties are still there...

Everytime I think of the Purist Mode that'll be in Hitman Absolution, I die on the inside because I wish Blacklist would have a "Classic" Mode or "Ghost" Mode or "Splinter Cell" Mode, etc. :/

[mattduck69]

well there is dogs, we know this because in one of the previews written somewhere they say that in the extended demo they showed at e3 that sam had to avoid dogs

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Oh yeah, totally forgot about that. Hopefully that'll be cool and add some extra ghosting challenge.

[shobhit7777777]

Since you merge in the Real Life aspect into discussion. In Real Life you wouldn't run torwards a ledge, you would approach it slowly to see how deep you would fall and if you would take any damage jumping down there or at least to survive that jump. If you run torwards a ledge though, you wouldn't be able to stop exactly at the ledge. You would proprably slide away and maybe you are able to hold on the ledge, but there is no guarantee you would be able to hold there. In Conviction when you are running torwards a ledge you are able to do a "planned" slide where Sam is already having his hands ready to hold on the ledge and that's completely believeable and realizable. Not the running torwards edge and feeling like you are running against a wall though, that's not really believeable and it shouldn't be possible. At the end it's your fault if you didn't take care of that ledge.
If you are running you should fall down of the ledge, if you approach it slowlier you shouldn't and stand at the ledge the way as it's in Conviction. The question of whether you would do it in real life doesn't really fit here though. What you think and what you do are two different things. You wouldn't do what Sam does in Real Life anyway.


If we are going THAT deep into real life reactions..then we would need a set of animations which portray the character slowing down, trying to ease off the momentum as he approahces the ledge..because that's what I would do if I had to run towards a ledge....I'd stop running a few feet short of the drop. And I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure of body's reflexes and coordination...So I know for a fact that If I see a ledge with a drop behind it, I won't be falling off of it because "I didn't take care of the ledge"...It would only be natural for me to stop..which itself is a complex operation (for a body) and would definitely lead to unjustified deaths thanks to player-controller-CPU lag.
They need to add a system where the player can simply drop off a non-lethal ledge (It already is there in SCC for the really small heights)

And the question DOES fit in here because a control scheme and character response should mirror what a player can do with precision in real life (super agent stuff notwithstanding) as not only does that makes for a smoother gameplay experience but it also creates a connect with the character when it stops doing things like bumping into geometry and falling a couple of meters off due to a slightly mistimed jump.


Jumping and not being able to grab the ledge because you were a few centimeters off is is pretty much possible in real life too. Failing at such things is annoying but isn't really an immersion braker in my opinion because I can fail at grabbing the ledge just as well, although I am fully capable of grabbing it. But I think Bob mentioned already what can solve that problem and I like his idea a lot.

Not really, even the most average of human can manage a few cms here or there as our body (unlike videogame characters) is limber and more flexible. That offset can be rectified by twisting, stretching the arm or the back.
Now when you are playing a highly trained agent...missing a simple ledge grab (something the operator has been trained in or proficient at) is an immersion breaker for me especially if it is because of mechanical limitations of the jumping parameters.

Bob's idea would certainly solve all the issues though...I wonder what SCB has done in terms of movement and controls...from the gameplay trailer it looks unchanged :\

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I'm glad my idea appeases pretty much everyone. I DO want to get into the industry at some point. I'm no good with the programming and code side of things but hand me a controller and I'll find what works best for the 360 and PS3 controllers (or I'd try my best). I would love to be a writer/creative director/game director...anyone know if lead level designers work with programming or code at all? Or even if the job itself doesn't if they'd need to know that stuff to get the job? That's my fear is that I'll never get into a position I'd be great (at least I think I'd be great) in just because I'm not good with math and coding and programming. ANYWAY, I'm telling Ubisoft right now that they should take my Y button idea and then it solves multiple issues. My windoe example is a perfect and infamous example from SCC that is immediately made virtually impossible as long as the player is not an idiot.Now you just get next to a window push A and you open the window, no need for the prompt. Once it's open, you push Y. Boom done. The problem with simply having Prompts be turned off is that without them as they are, you'd never know if you're selecting the option to jump through the window or open it. In SCC this was a problem WITH the prompts, it sure as hell would be even worse with none. So they need the button inputs to have completely different outputs. Y equates to jumping out the window, A equates to opening it.

This next example may seem complicated but I don't think many would have an issue with it? Doors. Push A when next to it to Open Door, Hold A to initiate Open Door Stealth. Push X next to it to bash it. That way, let's say there's a ledge above the door. You push Y while right in front of the door, you jump to the ledge. Press A while in front of the door, you open it and if you Hold A you open it slowly and can govern how far you open it just like in CT or DA. With this simple adjustment you get rid of the need for the SCC "floating/sliding prompts" as well as even the need for classic SC "static" prompts as each button is something else and the way you hit A determines the difference. Also if we made picking up weapons "Hold X" there would be even less issues.

I will highlight the good and bad. Same scenario but let's add a window that's closed right next to the door, and an AK-47 right on the floor in front of a door. I want to jump to ledge, as I said before, since I'm in front of the door, I'd jump to the ledge. If I'm in front of the window, I will jump and crash through the window. If I push A in front of the door or window, I will open what I'm in front of. I push X next to the door, I bash it down. I Hold A, I open it slowly and stealthy. I Hold X I pick up a gun. Each intentional button press or hold gives me an intentional response as opposed to an accidental and often contradictory response. The only issue I can forsee is X or A (whether pushed or held) when there's a body next to a door as well as a gun.

Let's say A picks up weapons. Next to a door you press A -- do you open the door or pick the gun up. Oops. Well okay, let's make weapon pick up "hold A" oh wait -- thats Open Door Stealth. Okay how about this. We make it X. Oh crap...does he pick the gun up or bash the door down? Okay what if he HOLDS X....uh oh...does he pick the body up or the gun? What if the body is press X already, the gun is hold X and bash door is X. See the issue. The only idea I can think of to remedy this, is something that...almost doesn't make sense. Y makes sense if its all athletics based. A is for basic interaction and can have slightly altered interactions by holding it instead. X is more aggressive interaction such as Killing/KOing, bashing, picking up bodies, etc. B is crouch right? Holding B while moving results in a roll? What if hold B was weapon pick up as well but only when on top of a gun and stationary? It makes sense to have to be stationary even if briefly to pick a gun up. It'd be hard to lift it up while being shot at and running and never struck me as realistic in FPS'.

Admittedly it's a little confusing as picking up weapons has nothing to do with crouching though I guess you could say he has to lean over/bend over/crouch down to pick the gun up....but it also solves the issue. So in the above situation, the controls would be as follow and would guarantee (I think) no or few issues.

A - Open door or window based on which one you are physically in front of -- NOT which one you're looking at to get the prompt to show up, there IS no prompt. Hold A to Open Door Stealth when in front of door.
B - Crouch, Hold while running to roll, Hold while walking or stationary to pick up weapon (when weapon is below/right next to you)
X - Bash door, Hold to pick up body
Y - Jump up to ledge when in front of door, jump out window when in front of window

The last and final issue that arises is when an enemy approaches near the door. Pressing X also results in a KO/Kill as well as bashing the door so how does the game choose? Floating prompt? No...I think if you have your reticule on or near the enemy (even if right next to the door and facing it physically) you will go for the Kill/KO. Your kills must be intentional and precise. A door kick not as much. So if you're facing the door and the reticule is also facing the door, the doors going down. You have the camera spun around and you see the guard, you're killing that guard. Alternatively, if you're right next to the door but facing away from it, no matter how many times you push X, you're not bashing it in but if an enemy comes walking by, you will get them since they're next to you. Do you get what I mean?

[shobhit7777777]

The last and final issue that arises is when an enemy approaches near the door. Pressing X also results in a KO/Kill as well as bashing the door so how does the game choose? Floating prompt? No...I think if you have your reticule on or near the enemy (even if right next to the door and facing it physically) you will go for the Kill/KO. Your kills must be intentional and precise. A door kick not as much. So if you're facing the door and the reticule is also facing the door, the doors going down. You have the camera spun around and you see the guard, you're killing that guard. Alternatively, if you're right next to the door but facing away from it, no matter how many times you push X, you're not bashing it in but if an enemy comes walking by, you will get them since they're next to you. Do you get what I mean?

Do you target the enemy from behind the door? I don't really understand it..need an example of sorts.

As for controls, I have always been a fan of Assassin's Creed's control scheme because it uses two modes - 'High' and 'Low' thereby changing the control scheme but maintaining familiarity. Walk becomes sprint at the touch of a button.

Conviction's control scheme, from a designer's standpoint, was very innovative and fluid. It worked on the concept of fast and precise movement to maintain a 'flow'. This became an extremely intuitive process for the player as the mechanics of moving came naturally...Look up at ledge, press A and jump up...Look down while moving press A and jump down.
It failed because the player, especially in a stealth game, would not always "look" where he/she would be going....Enter 'Switch On Light instead of jumping out the window'. Plus in certain situations the proximity of a weapon or another interactive object would hinder the ability to move around.

IMHO

Separating athletic moves from interaction would definitely be an improvement...but the athletic button should be 'A'. The player's prime concern is traversal and the way the controller has been designed and thanks to the button layout, the A button is where the right thumb lays naturally. Since we would be frequently moving around, it is only logical that A becomes the athletic button.

X should become the interaction button. Open doors, windows, switch lights, pick-up stuff, Snake cam etc.. Look at the light, window, door etc. and press X

Y should become the gadget deployment button. For executes, Just hold down the RB. Works well in GRFS. To cancel the marks simply press RB over the marked targets..to cancel all targets double tap RB.

So you can move around the same in Conviction, maintaining speed and flow but you won't have the game confusing one input for another.

Also, I have an idea regarding marking targets. The system in conviction was not 100% precise and when you encountered a group of hostiles it became slightly problematic to mark them all (mark the wrong guy, unmark him, mark the guy next to him end up marking the wrong guy again)
So now you can 'paint' the marks. Keep the RB held down and hover over the cluster once....voila targets marked...but there is a slight design flaw here....+1 to whoever finds it ;)


P.S

For the hardcore folks complaining about the "dumbing down" of SCC and needless hand-holding.

Behold a thread in which the person is confused by even the most simple of SCC's mechanics - LKP and B/W

http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/splinter-cell-conviction-s-con/1036927

NOW do you see what I meant by "Designing for the Lowest Common Denominator"?

[Andre202]

If we are going THAT deep into real life reactions..then we would need a set of animations which portray the character slowing down, trying to ease off the momentum as he approahces the ledge..because that's what I would do if I had to run towards a ledge....I'd stop running a few feet short of the drop. And I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure of body's reflexes and coordination...So I know for a fact that If I see a ledge with a drop behind it, I won't be falling off of it because "I didn't take care of the ledge"...It would only be natural for me to stop..which itself is a complex operation (for a body) and would definitely lead to unjustified deaths thanks to player-controller-CPU lag.
They need to add a system where the player can simply drop off a non-lethal ledge (It already is there in SCC for the really small heights)
I would be fine with animations that reflect the careful approach of a character to a ledge, but other then that if you run you fall down, it's exactly your fault that you were not taking care. What you do in the game and what you think you can do are two seperate things. The game shouldn't care for you if you were not being the one who payed attention to the ledge and I don't think you can put such things into the player-controller-CPU lag department. We aren't in the ninties. With such reasons we could just as well forget about Variable Speed and a more deeper Sound system because you were being to fast, therefore to loud and the fault isn't yours but the one of the controller. Because you think you wouldn't move to fast and therefore to loud, so it doesn't make sense, let take the game care for you..... Is it to difficult to move slowlier or what's the problem here? It's even easier in Conviction, because you have "Safety-Speed" (noone is hearing you) and "Sprint" (On/Off Sound System). I don't think it's that difficult just as it wasn't that difficult with variable speed on consoles, it's only a question of getting used to it or they give you the option on the controller to be as precisely as on the PC when having variable speed.




And the question DOES fit in here because a control scheme and character response should mirror what a player can do with precision in real life (super agent stuff notwithstanding) as not only does that makes for a smoother gameplay experience but it also creates a connect with the character when it stops doing things like bumping into geometry and falling a couple of meters off due to a slightly mistimed jump.
Does it? Because then you could question a lot of things there in Splinter Cell and make it more precisely by making the game doing stuff for you, you think you would be able to do in real life with 100% precision without the ability to fail? Doesn't sound really believeable to me. It actually sounds more movieish...

I think you connect to the character a lot more if you have a lot more control over him. For example I want to distract an enemy, so I will be using a can or a stone or something to distract the guard and I do exactly the things what I actually planned or actually think I can do in this situation. Now I wasn't really careful by pushing the right button and instead of picking up something I jumped. Is that the player's fault (mine) or that of the game?

Taking your approach to solve this problem because you think an operator wouldn't do such things in those situation sounds like how M&E is designed. Mark the enemy and use the distract button, if there is a can or a stone near to the character that he can pick up, he will pick it up and throw it automatically in a way that the enemy is successfully distracted. Of course this is an exaggeration here. But that's what comes up when you would need to think of player input failures and design of the character being able to do all the things without a fail, he/she was designed for.




Not really, even the most average of human can manage a few cms here or there as our body (unlike videogame characters) is limber and more flexible. That offset can be rectified by twisting, stretching the arm or the back.
That's not the point I was trying to make. You can easily slip of a ledge and it happens to everyone. What does someone do then? Try again and next time you may grab the ledge a lot better, just the same as in game. Try again and he will grab it.




Now when you are playing a highly trained agent...missing a simple ledge grab (something the operator has been trained in or proficient at) is an immersion breaker for me especially if it is because of mechanical limitations of the jumping parameters.
Or you were just not really jumping to the ledge?
I know it happens but it's a very rare thing at least to me...
Your are suggesting that the game does everything for you that the operator is trained for? Doesn't sound to me as you would be really interested into controlling the character yourself instead of the game taking care for these things you think HE should be able to do and not what YOU actually should be able to do with the character.

Since they found another way to grab the ledge though it should be totally fine with Bob's suggestion.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Let's say there is a wall with a door on the NORTH (N) side of a room. You're facing the door. You're facing north. Pretend an enemy magically spawns right behind you, so SOUTH (S) from your position. He's facing S not N so he doesn't see you or the door. The lines indicate a wall, D is the door. the arrow is the player and the G is the guard.

____D_____
..........^...........
..........G..........
__________

So remember the guard is facing downward, the arrow is pointing up -- you're looking at the door. As in Sam's avatar is currently facing the door as is the camera. If he pushes X (based on my controller setup) he will bash the door open as opposed to killing the henchmen. Let's take the same scenario and have Sam facing S along with the guard but behind the guard.

____D_____
..........v...........
..........G..........
__________

Here, Sam is facing the guard. He will take the guard out rather than bash the door down. No prompts. Essentially they're there but invisible. For example. You take the first one with Sam facing the door, NOT the guard. But what if the physical avatar of Sam is facing the door while the camera is facing the guard? C is the camera and the arrow is which way it's facing.

..........C..........
..........v..........
____D_____
..........^...........
..........G..........
__________

Now we have a dilemma. Sam is facing the door, but the camera is facing the guard. Now do we open the door? Well ordinarily this wouldn't matter and Sam would indeed open the door. But because the guard is so close Sam can take the enemy out. So in order to get precise kills, the player with the camera already facing the guard more than the door points his reticule at the guard and presses X and Sam will spin around and grab the guy and kill him. If the player has the reticule centered on any aspect of the door, they will open the door instead.

Honestly, this is such an abstract concept even for the game as it'd be rare for an enemy to be so close to a door (in the same room as the player) but facing away from it. Usually the scenario will be a guard right behind a door either facing away like this scenario, only with Sam on the other side of the door so he can bash it open and take the guy out. OR alternatively, if the guy IS in the same room as Sam and the door, he most likely would have to be approaching Sam and the door by which time he will be attacking anyway long before this arises. I'm not sure if I explained it well enough still. I'd have to show you....

[shobhit7777777]

I would be fine with animations that reflect the careful approach of a character to a ledge, but other then that if you run you fall down, it's exactly your fault that you were not taking care. What you do in the game and what you think you can do are two seperate things. The game shouldn't care for you if you were not being the one who payed attention to the ledge and I don't think you can put such things into the player-controller-CPU lag department. We aren't in the ninties.


Nope..It's not about the player being overtly cautious in this case. I always dropped off a ledge because the controller/input was not sensitive enough...I had to pan the camera all the way down, focus on the feet and keep nudging the analogue stick/WASD keys to get in the exact right spot..before I crossed a magical threshold and fell to my death. This is the coordination system of a toddler.
It IS a player-controller-CPU-lag department issue...because the computer simply cannot emulate Human precision. I can move my right foot a couple of inches to the left and my left a couple of centimeters to the right to get into an absolutely perfect position with 0.1% of the effort.

When I play and I have to sit through such 'Fails' because of a lack in input precision, shards of glass labelled "IMMERSION" rain down upon me.


With such reasons we could just as well forget about Variable Speed and a more deeper Sound system because you were being to fast, therefore to loud and the fault isn't yours but the one of the controller. Because you think you wouldn't move to fast and therefore to loud, so it doesn't make sense, let take the game care for you..... Is it to difficult to move slowlier or what's the problem here?

Eh? You're taking my argument to the extreme now.

Variable Speed is an intricate part of stealth gameplay (Something I really hope SCB implements) and automating that would eliminate it as a mechanic and ADDs to the immersion of playing a spy. That is something I realistically WOULD HAVE to pay a LOT attention to...so it makes sense I do it in the game.
Not only that....variable speed, as a mechanic, can be PRECISELY controlled thanks to the mouse scroll or the analogue stick. It works with enough precision and accuracy that I never felt that it was the CPU's fault that I got detected.


Does it? Because then you could question a lot of things there in Splinter Cell and make it more precisely by making the game doing stuff for you, you think you would be able to do in real life with 100% precision without the ability to fail? Doesn't sound really believeable to me. It actually sounds more movieish...

Then how about we put EVERYTHING under manual control then? Want to aim a gun? well you have to control the 2 analogue sticks that represent Sam's arms and the constantly press the D-pad buttons to control the torso muscles for a steadier shot.

You're confusing the need to keep things simple and precise with completely automating the game.

Mundane, inane things, that a person should be able to do IRL with minimum fuss should be emulated in-game


I think you connect to the character a lot more if you have a lot more control over him. For example I want to distract an enemy, so I will be using a can or a stone or something to distract the guard and I do exactly the things what I actually planned or actually think I can do in this situation. Now I wasn't really careful by pushing the right button and instead of picking up something I jumped. Is that the player's fault (mine) or that of the game?

That's not a precision issue..that is an honest mistake on your part...actual carelessness. I'm talking about a situation wherein however carefully I approach a ledge....I still fall down because I crossed some threshold thanks to system which makes a naturally easy act an exercise in trial and error.


That's not the point I was trying to make. You can easily slip of a ledge and it happens to everyone. What does someone do then? Try again and next time you may grab the ledge a lot better, just the same as in game. Try again and he will grab it.


A slip is different...I'm talking about completely missing the grab..I'd be happy if there were a slip mechanic where jumping at a ledge from too far away causes your character to slip as this is realistically possible...Jumping and not even grabbing on because of a difference of a few inches is unacceptable...what is this? the 90s? ;)


Your are suggesting that the game does everything for you that the operator is trained for? Doesn't sound to me as you would be really interested into controlling the character yourself instead of the game taking care for these things you think HE should be able to do and not what YOU actually should be able to do with the character.

Again, you're confusing precision with direct control. I can grab a ledge, drop off it, walk to it's edge WITHOUT dropping with absolute precision. These are "everyday" (everyday for me cuz I'm Batman) motor skills that any average human being can manage..hence they shouldn't be such an exercise in caution in Splinter Cell

When I do make a mistake it should be because of ME being careless, forgetting things or mixing up buttons...honest ones were a lapse in attention leads to a screw-up

@Bob

Sorry dude...it just all went over my head :(

But what from I gather the system will not work..I need to understand it completely TBH

[Andre202]

Nope..It's not about the player being overtly cautious in this case. I always dropped off a ledge because the controller/input was not sensitive enough...I had to pan the camera all the way down, focus on the feet and keep nudging the analogue stick/WASD keys to get in the exact right spot..before I crossed a magical threshold and fell to my death. This is the coordination system of a toddler.
It IS a player-controller-CPU-lag department issue...because the computer simply cannot emulate Human precision. I can move my right foot a couple of inches to the left and my left a couple of centimeters to the right to get into an absolutely perfect position with 0.1% of the effort.

When I play and I have to sit through such 'Fails' because of a lack in input precision, shards of glass labelled "IMMERSION" rain down upon me.
I am talking about running, moving fast torwards the ledge. I said previously you would just stand at the ledge just like in Conviction if you wouldn't run and approach the ledge slowly, but there shouldn't be an invisible wall if you run torwards the ledge. Other then that, in older games turning to the lowest speed on a ledge always lead to my character grabbing the ledge. I am not sure where is the player-controlelr-CPU-lag in that case.

SCCT had a precisely step by step crouch system. Of course you can't place your feet the way you would do in real life but you are able to stop precisly. At a ledge if you want and if you move slowly he will grab the ledge. Going in faster, he won't. Not sure why you fall down everytime...




Eh? You're taking my argument to the extreme now.
Could be...




Variable Speed is an intricate part of stealth gameplay (Something I really hope SCB implements) and automating that would eliminate it as a mechanic and ADDs to the immersion of playing a spy. That is something I realistically WOULD HAVE to pay a LOT attention to...so it makes sense I do it in the game.
Not only that....variable speed, as a mechanic, can be PRECISELY controlled thanks to the mouse scroll or the analogue stick. It works with enough precision and accuracy that I never felt that it was the CPU's fault that I got detected.
I know that Variable Speed is an important part to Splinter Cell, that's why I used that as an example. If you speak of the operator being able to all the things precisely which he seems not to be able to do with you, I will apply that approach on another important feature, which is Variable Speed in this case and goes along with the issue. Also in a Stealth game you may pay a lot of attention to nearly everything. Through the variable speed it was determined whether you fall from a ledge or he grabs it which is why I don't know of which threshold your are talking about.




Then how about we put EVERYTHING under manual control then? Want to aim a gun? well you have to control the 2 analogue sticks that represent Sam's arms and the constantly press the D-pad buttons to control the torso muscles for a steadier shot.

You're confusing the need to keep things simple and precise with completely automating the game.

Mundane, inane things, that a person should be able to do IRL with minimum fuss should be emulated in-game
See? You are just going the opposite extreme, which I really wasn't asking for. I am not confusing both of them. I know I won't be able to control the whole character just like myself in reallife unless I will be wearing a special costume in a special room with a ridiculous amount of cameras observing my movements. But that's not really where I am getting at, it's about the no failure option you got now. When I first approach the Whitebox mission for example I was carefully not to fall anywhere, but when I experienced that I am not able to fall down, I didn't care at all about such things.




That's not a precision issue..that is an honest mistake on your part...actual carelessness. I'm talking about a situation wherein however carefully I approach a ledge....I still fall down because I crossed some threshold thanks to system which makes a naturally easy act an exercise in trial and error.
That's not the case. I was just trying now in Splinter Cell SAR whether that issue is there or not and it doesn't happen. Whether I am going slowly towards a ledge or I sneak very slowly, he will always grab the ledge. I can keep pushing the "W" button and he will still grab the ledge. I can test it on the console if you want too but I think it's the same case there since it's bound to the variable speed.




A slip is different...I'm talking about completely missing the grab..I'd be happy if there were a slip mechanic where jumping at a ledge from too far away causes your character to slip as this is realistically possible...Jumping and not even grabbing on because of a difference of a few inches is unacceptable...what is this? the 90s? ;)
It would actually just add another animation which would be played if you weren't able to jump directly to the ledge.