Double Agent ENGINE VS Conviction Engine

[CamberGreber]

I have heard a number of times mentioned on this forum a preference for DA Engine over SCC Engine.

Here are some facts. (360 versions) - http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241 (http://http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241)

Double Agent = 1280x720p AA=(fullscreen blur 1pixel in both V&H)

SC Conviction = 1024x576 AA=(2x Msaa) - this is 1 of the lowest resolutions this generation.

Thats a 37% decrease in Image Quality

I feel that the reason some feel that DA engine is better is because of the horrible image quality of Conviction in comparison which makes SCC look like sh*t in comparison.

I also feel that Conviction really looks a whole lot better than DA....image quality aside. My reasoning...
I have Conviction on both the 360 and the PC and I can tell you with a High Quality image setting (720p+) there is no contest. Conviction looks way better than DA.

I will admit that the enemies in SCC don't have as High-Rez textures as they do in DA but Sam, the environment, and especially the lighting is far far superior.

The texture quality of SCC can't possible come through in the low res 360 version. I have compared both side by side and if you peer through the blurriness of the console version there is a whole bunch of highres textures just waiting to come out.

I guess what I'm saying is if SCB can reach a 720p resolution this time...it is the right choice of engine moving forward.



I want to know what you guys think about both these engines and which one you would like to see moving forward?

[sameer_monier]

what I know is that we are stuck, no really, since CT we have been using the same engine a highly modified Unreal Engine 2, called LEAD

As far as I know CT, DA, C all uses the same engine, but with every game the engine is modified even more, and BL is no difference, it is using a highly modified same engine.

The reason is that the developer invested so much in the engine L&S mechanics that they made it un-comparable to any other engine when it comes to lighting and shadows.

I know that SCB will look alot better than SCC, but I hope that they get their hands on Unreal 4 (since the next time we see SC it will be on next gen) modify it however they like it, and bring a visually impressive game to us, SCB will look amazing, but it won't be an over the top, not that I care about the graphics anyway.

A little something, I love CT when it comes to graphics (PC) for a simple version, having the camera so close to Sam made the game so immersive, the only bad thing was his monkey face

[Andre202]

I don't think they will use UE4. I think they will use UE3 or UE3.5. They may also use AnvilNext.

[sameer_monier]

I don't think they will use UE4. I think they will use UE3 or UE3.5. They may also use AnvilNext.
well the first title coming out on next gen for certain is using UR3, but SC7 may come 2 years after, isn't that a good time to start on UR4 ?!

So far AnvilNext looks amazing visually speaking, but L&S speaking I don't know, don't recall seeing it in the demo, as far as Anvil goes I am interested to see how R6P will do using it, it will be how I judge the capability of it.

[Andre202]

I don't think the next consoles can even fully utilise UE4 which is why they may use UE3 or UE3.5 or a complete new Engine. I mean they are calling the SC Engine already LEAD. So they may as well continue to use and have LEAD 2 later on.

[sameer_monier]

I don't think the next consoles can even fully utilise UE4 which is why they may use UE3 or UE3.5 or a complete new Engine. I mean they are calling the SC Engine already LEAD. So they may as well continue to use and have LEAD 2 later on.
I see, I see, also LEAD 2 is not bad at all assuming the build it from ground up to offer more complex L&S, I actually like the name too.

Ubi make it happen.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I just like the look of the DA engine more. His face looks way more detailed in that he sweats, the shape of it is great, etc. I'm sure they could do the same with the new engine I just didnt see it at all in SCC.

[CamberGreber]

I just like the look of the DA engine more. His face looks way more detailed in that he sweats, the shape of it is great, etc. I'm sure they could do the same with the new engine I just didnt see it at all in SCC.

Yes I loved the fact that he sweats in DA (even more when you move around alot ..I think)
I was hopeing that they would implement that into Conviction. but alas :(

I agree that Sams face in DA was F****** Awesome. Kinshasa Especially ......that and Shanghai my favorite levels.

In Higher resoultions Sam looks just as Hi Res as in Conviction yet he doesn't sweat. :(

I also agree that his face in DA is the best he has looked.

[CamberGreber]

Am I spelling Sweat right???

[mateus99]

^yes you are.I also have to agree that sams face in DA was more detailed than in conviction.

[MadamTampini]

I just like the look of the DA engine more. His face looks way more detailed in that he sweats, the shape of it is great, etc. I'm sure they could do the same with the new engine I just didnt see it at all in SCC.

lol yes I just had flashbacks reading this of joking around on the forums before DA came out about how many polygons Sam's head had. something like over 9,000? lol

[CamberGreber]

what I know is that we are stuck, no really, since CT we have been using the same engine a highly modified Unreal Engine 2, called LEAD

As far as I know CT, DA, C all uses the same engine, but with every game the engine is modified even more, and BL is no difference, it is using a highly modified same engine.

The reason is that the developer invested so much in the engine L&S mechanics that they made it un-comparable to any other engine when it comes to lighting and shadows.

I know that SCB will look alot better than SCC, but I hope that they get their hands on Unreal 4 (since the next time we see SC it will be on next gen) modify it however they like it, and bring a visually impressive game to us, SCB will look amazing, but it won't be an over the top, not that I care about the graphics anyway.

A little something, I love CT when it comes to graphics (PC) for a simple version, having the camera so close to Sam made the game so immersive, the only bad thing was his monkey face

I think way too much concern has been put into what engine games run in. As if a different engine would mean a difference in graphics.

I agree that if the engine is the same as CT (unreal 2/ or 2.5) that it should be improved or replaced......but they have improved it and added huge amounts of codeing changes.
I really doubt LEAD resembles CT's engine at a core level anymore.

Convictions production as you know was full of Huge Bumps and Massive Changes which probably cost UBI sh*tloads which most likely lead to the most exspensive SC title by far.
These Developmental Snafus are what probably left Conviction less than it could be. If they hadn't happened I think it would have looked alot more like SCB.

Convictions engine focuses on a heavy number of deffered lights with large areas of influence and attenuation (computationaly exspensive) plus a very high quality indirect shadow implementation (im not referring to AO - they created a cutom solution for that which runs really fast) which leads to a pretty damm impressive lighting model.

But non of this was optimized do to the extreme time restrictions of that production. Thats the reason the engine runs at such a low resolution and looks inferior to other products from UBI.

I personally couldn't wait to see a Next-Gen SC title running on Unreal 3 engine when the engine was first announced back in 2005. After Vegas choose UE3 I was sure it would come true.
When they first should the Hobo Sam version I was like Yuck why didn't they use UE3. But Conviction release looked fantastic at higher resoulutions.

I am sure it would have looked better if it had been made on UE3...but that would only have been the case because UE3 is better optimized.
Now that LEAD is into it's second iteration with more time in development I think it will totally be on par with UE3 and I believe the E3 trailer backs that opinion up.

I agree the closer camera was better. Also Unreal Engine 4 would be ideal for next gen if LEAD wasn't up to the mustard.

[sameer_monier]

^^ I am no engineer, but I always think that no matter how many time you upgrade your engine, there will be a time where the engine is fed up, no more upgrading will help, maybe I am wrong ?!

But over all I totally agree with you, the design cycle of SCC was really bad, that's why we didn't get the most of what the title could have offered.

SCB on the other hand seems to carry on everything right, and do it better, they got everything sorted, we will see how great it look, not graphically speaking only, but animation, sound, presentation, ................etc



Edit: I liked the Training Sam Fisher in DA, that seemed like the true Sam Fisher to me, similar to the cutscene model in CT, and SCC got a similar feeling to it too.

[Knot3D]

Well, as long as PC system requirements and as a result, PC system performance will be reasonable, it's all good.

Conviction had good enough graphics for me, and has some crucial factors, DA lacks ; screen surface ambient occlusion and
better overal character movement.

[Andre202]

Well, as long as PC system requirements and as a result, PC system performance will be reasonable, it's all good.

Conviction had good enough graphics for me, and has some crucial factors, DA lacks ; screen surface ambient occlusion and
better overal character movement.

Conviction wasn't optimized for PCs that well, though. But since they presented Blacklist on PC I am confident it will run even better then Conviction does.

[CamberGreber]

Conviction wasn't optimized for PCs that well, though. But since they presented Blacklist on PC I am confident it will run even better then Conviction does.

Yeah I have to play mine at 900p just to get a consistent framerate. Some sections I can get it to 1050p with decent performance.

I felt at over 900p there where some diminishing returns with the exceptions of AA......I can't stand aliasing.
Thank god for the advent of FXAA for you know weaker cards. God knows I've needed it.

[Andre202]

Ohh, well I have everything maxed out on 720p. It only runs fluently when I have 60fps. Under the limit it's like playing with 20fps. I am not able to use FXAA, AMD user. ;)

[CamberGreber]

I use a 360 controller so 30fps is fine for me. Don't mind mouse just can't stand keyboard.
need analog movement.

Mouse requires higher fps to play smooth.

[Andre202]

Ahh, well. That's why I have problems with the AC games. I actually didn't want to buy a controller just to be able to play a not optimized game for the PC. It seems I am forced to do so.

[Jazz117Volkov]

@ Andre
360 degrees of freedom with 100% variable speed is hard to put down after you pick it up.

[CamberGreber]

Ahh, well. That's why I have problems with the AC games. I actually didn't want to buy a controller just to be able to play a not optimized game for the PC. It seems I am forced to do so.

Get a wired 360 controller the wireless ones have connection problems.
The controls are tottally built in with all the button prompts as well even in the menus so no set up required.

[Andre202]

Well, I will look if I can get one.

[CamberGreber]

No pressure.