Why is Maxime Beland working on this game.

[AssassinDOA]

He's the one who included that awful black and white shadow for Conviction. He's probably also the one who came up with the mark and execute idea. He even said it himself that he didn't like the original splinter cell game play which is why the game went in another direction.

[MadamTampini]

Is this true? He doesn't even like SC? No wonder Splinter Cell is failing. Wow great job Ubisoft, yes let's hire people to work on projects they don't even like. Good freakin point, AssassinDOA.

[AssassinDOA]

In an interview he said he didn't like the old mechanics of Splinter Cell. The way the game played, that it was too slow and difficult, and how Sam moved around in the environment. In Conviction he wanted Sam to be more powerful and brutal similar to Jack Bauer in 24.I don't know if he like the SC series though. He's the game designer for Black list so he will probably have a lot of input in the game. Sounds like he has his own vision for SC and Sam Fisher.

[mistahkmak]

If you don't like chess.......

[Jazz117Volkov]

Maxime Beland has worked on a lot of big projects, and he does good work.
He seems like a great guy, and I have huge respect for his creative talents.

BUT he did mess up pretty bad in terms of what he said during the SCC promotional campaign.
All that badmouthing (evidently) effected his reputation among the established fan base.
It basically said, "I don't like your game, so watch me turn it into mine." -- not very effective marketing in my opinion.

At the time I felt like a little kid, forced to sit and watch Dr. Frankenstein destroy my favorite toy.
A punch in the gun and a stab in the heart... kinda like the ending of Mass Effect 3.

[MonkeySoldier14]

In an interview he said he didn't like the old mechanics of Splinter Cell. The way the game played, that it was too slow and difficult, and how Sam moved around in the environment. In Conviction he wanted Sam to be more powerful and brutal similar to Jack Bauer in 24.I don't know if he like the SC series though. He's the game designer for Black list so he will probably have a lot of input in the game. Sounds like he has his own vision for SC and Sam Fisher.

Don't forget James Bond and Jason Bourne. The three JBs; oh yeah. :cool:

[SpaceDesperado]

Simple really, he already completely changed the game play style of the Splinter-Cell franchise into a more dumbed down approach, instead focusing on impressing the player with fancy set pieces like COD. You can't fire the guy because he is still decent at his job or disrespect him by not making him creative director for his next game so you give him Splinter-Cell. Hope he either fixes the problems hes made with Splinter-Cell or improves it enough to get the mainstream audience to buy it.

[SolidSage]

Max is cool. He's 34 years old, how old did that make him during SCC build? That he took over from a team that apparently didn't produce something viable. He had a set of code to salvage something from and you guys talk about him like he's trying to kill SC. He SAVED it, and he's bringing back a bunch of the stuff we've been complaining about.
He was Creative Lead on Rainbow Six Vegas (one of the better if not BEST Rainbow's) and he also worked on Assassin's Creed if I am not mistaken.

He is also tasked with innovating, creating more appeal AND making one heck of a fun game.

I thought old SC's were slow and boring too after a while. I might have even said the same thing as a younger man with a very high profile and stressful position.

I also thing calling SCC 'dumbed down' is a dumbed down way of communicating about the things you didn't like. What was 'more intelligent' about a pop out lockpick mini game? Or reading an email? Or waiting for windows of opportunity between two guards instead of ten? What's dumbed down about an interactive interrogation instead of an audio conversation and then the choice to kill or not?

I have to go now because this entire thread is dumbed down.

[Yabab_2]

He was Creative Lead on Rainbow Six Vegas (one of the better if not BEST Rainbow's)

I know a number of people in the Rainbow Six community who complain just as much as this one does about the old days...

But yeah, Max seems like a pretty cool dude! As a designer and creative director he understands the minds of the people he's selling the majority of the copies to - and that counts a lot more than anything else in his role.

[KenTWOu]

He's the one who included that awful black and white shadow for Conviction.
He admitted that he was wrong, so Ubisoft thought that's OK, and kept him, :p Also they balanced him with Patrick Redding. He is game director now (he was co-op game director in Conviction), and he likes stealth very much and replayed all Splinter Cells recently.


He even said it himself that he didn't like the original splinter cell game play which is why the game went in another direction.
Also, you are very naive if you think that Maxime Beland made all decisions alone, and he is single-handedly ruined Splinter Cell franchise for you. He once said: Ubisoft didn’t want us to make another Double Agent or another Chaos Theory... Ubisoft obviously wanted to see if there was a way to please even more people, to get more people interested in the brand and the genre. That was the mandate and the challenge that we got - can we make stealth something that more people want to play... (source (http://gameover.next-gen.biz/news/ubisoft-felt-splinter-cell-was-too-hardcore)).

Gei it now? Blame Ubisoft for the fact that they don't want to release another Chaos Theory/Double Agent game. And as SolidSage said Maxime saved Splinter Cell and even convinced Michael Ironside work on Conviction. So deal with it.

[MadamTampini]

Gei it now? Blame Ubisoft for the fact that they don't want to release another Chaos Theory/Double Agent game.

It's true Ubisoft has made some extremely poor business choices. I don't think any one/thing/situation can be blamed for this, it is definitely a product of a slew of factors, but they can still fix it... to continue on the same path would only make their poor choices more apparent.

[Jazz117Volkov]

It's true. Who knows what we'd have without Beland.
He was the one who brought back L&S, which I personally cannot thank him enough for.

But, if I may reiterate in further detail.
The marketing of Conviction was flawed.
It only tried to sell the game to the new audience.
Ubi figured the old timers would just tag along because the game was called Splinter Cell. Which a lot did, but they only get lucky once.

As an individual, I have to be honest, I didn't pick Conviction off the shelf because I wanted a new Splinter Cell. I hate it (the single player portion) as a Splinter Cell game... heck, I just frankly don't like it as anything. But as a whole (D-ops/COOP and the gameplay loop) the game is an exceptionally high quality product that has been ten shtt loads of fun over the last few years (I still play it)
If nothing else, that tells me that Beland can creatively direct a team that will make an outstanding piece of entertainment.

But will this next piece of outstanding entertainment (Blacklist) more closely resemble Splinter Cell as I know it? I think so.

[shobhit7777777]

@All
Listen to SolidSage, Jazz and Ken


MB salvaged SC and also gave us an excellent tactical stealth game. He is also the one who is in charge of bringing back all the legacy stuff you see in Blacklist. Just follow the troubled schedule of SCC development...and if you're capable of extrapolating the time constraints (ever since MB joined the project) you should be thankful that Conviction even got made.

This thread disgusts me and if that's what a majority of the "Old school" fans feel and think...then I do not want to be associated with such a self-entitled elitist bunch.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I think Beland said some of those comments about the old gameplay in order to really promote the new direction. But yes, they thought the old fans would stick around no matter what which yeah. Guilty as charged. I also think he did what he could with what he was given and the time they had. He claims they wanted to implement hiding bodies but didnt get around to it but this time it definitely will have it. This SCB will determine everything essentially. Now that they're comfortable with the new gameplay, can they make that better for the new audience as well as delivering an experience the hardcore classic fans will like? If they can't....then well, Beland just doesnt understand SC at all. If they can...then I'll definitely believe everything Beland said about wanting to put hiding bodies in.

Either way...Beland seems like a really nice guy (who may or may not share my ideas on what SC is) and how anyone can hate him or get mad at him with those dimples of his, is beyond me. It's a known fact: people with dimples just look nice -- never scary haha

[KenTWOu]

If they can't....then well, Beland just doesnt understand SC at all.
Game development doesn't work that way, especially when you work for one of the major publishers. They are not dumb, they understand SC perfectly, it's not so hard, it's not higher mathematics or quantum physics If they can't, they just can't.

[harbi-117]

Lots of respect for Maxime Beland, I think he's a great creative guy.


In an interview he said he didn't like the old mechanics of Splinter Cell. The way the game played, that it was too slow and difficult, and how Sam moved around in the environment. Sounds like he has his own vision for SC and Sam Fisher.
I don't think that's Maxime Beland talking... it's Ubisoft's marketing.

Marketing a Stealth game is difficult. Ubisoft wants gamers everywhere to know that Splinter Cell has changed & what better way to do that than to bad mouth the original SC and say stuff that sings to the gamers who were turned off by previous SC ( being slow / punishing difficulty / not accessible)





A punch in the gun and a stab in the heart... kinda like the ending of Mass Effect 3.

FIRE SHIELD EQUIPPED... INCOMING COUNTER ATTACK...

I disagree Jazz, Mass Effect 3's ending is the most brilliant ending to a game in the history of "game endings"

it sucks that the majority of gamers couldn't understand the ending because of the amazing writing behind the game... Bioware writers should go to show business where they would get the appreciation they deserve for their impressive work.

Sure that stupid IGN website spoiled the ending of the Mass Effect's trilogy for everyone years ago so Bioware had to make another ending. I believe they did an impressive job on it. Plus, they didn't want to show the ending on a silver platter... they wanted gamers to think and connect the dots for themselves.



Mass Effect 3's real ending explanation (Click Me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck)) << spoiler... of course

unless Jazz... (spoiler alert) you're pissed at them because all your hard work & moral choices amassed to nothing in the ending then... I kinda agree with you there but still, that ending redeemed it for me.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Yes it does. It's a completely new team and Redding seems to understand but going off of the SP in C....then Beland didn't...but this time around it ppears as though Beland does so yeah. But they can still have a different vision that goes against what SC is about.

[sameer_monier]

People keep blaming Beland on and on and on, who wanted the change ?!, Ubi did, they tried it with DA, tried it with SCC2007, they wanted something totally different, Max came and tried to do the change while keeping things from the older titles too.

He messed up with the Black and White, and then he admitted that, I respect him for that, he is a funny guy, a creative one, and passionate developer, he reads the forums, respond to ever nice tweet he gets, answers as much as he can, tries to make everyone happy.

The developer team brought alot of the features we wanted, they read our feedback, but they won't make CT.2, can't they ?!, of course they can, it will be a piece of cake, will Ubi let them ?!, hell no, Ubi want mass appeal rather than only hardcore, at least the developers team is trying to do the hardcore just as hard as they can.

BTW Kickstart is up and running, Allen is doing a hardcore shooter game called Serillian Project (?) which resemble GR, there is groundbranch too which resemble R6, so if you want a SC like title, seek a developer who used to work on the SC team to make it, and I will support it whenever it comes out too since I love hardcore titles, but asking Ubi to make hardcore only titles again would mean them going bankrupt.

[harbi-117]

People keep blaming Beland on and on and on, who wanted the change ?!, Ubi did, they tried it with DA, tried it with SCC2007, they wanted something totally different, Max came and tried to do the change while keeping things from the older titles too.
quoted for truth... couldn't have said it better myself

[mateus99]

Lots of respect for Maxime Beland, I think he's a great creative guy.

I disagree Jazz, Mass Effect 3's ending is the most brilliant ending to a game in the history of "game endings"

it sucks that the majority of gamers couldn't understand the ending because of the amazing writing behind the game... Bioware writers should go to show business where they would get the appreciation they deserve for their impressive work.

Sure that stupid IGN website spoiled the ending of the Mass Effect's trilogy for everyone years ago so Bioware had to make another ending. I believe they did an impressive job on it. Plus, they didn't want to show the ending on a silver platter... they wanted gamers to think and connect the dots for themselves.



Mass Effect 3's real ending explanation (Click Me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck)) << spoiler... of course

unless Jazz... (spoiler alert) you're pissed at them because all your hard work & moral choices amassed to nothing in the ending then... I kinda agree with you there but still, that ending redeemed it for me.

If that theory is correct then the ending is THE BEST ENDING EVER. but the thing is that they have not cofirmed it and there are still many questions to be answered maybe in the extended cut.

As of MB i have one thing to say, he brought SC back who knows where the series would be without him.He brought new fresh ideas to the table (even is some of them im completetly negative on)I think he did the roight think and i respect him.
And this comes form a die-hard SC fan. i hope that SCB brings some of my favs features from past games like ghost stealth.
So i think MB saved the series the only thing he needs to do is to add things that are crucial to splinter cell.

[Jazz117Volkov]

FIRE SHIELD EQUIPPED... INCOMING COUNTER ATTACK...

I disagree Jazz, Mass Effect 3's ending is the most brilliant ending to a game in the history of "game endings"

it sucks that the majority of gamers couldn't understand the ending because of the amazing writing behind the game... Bioware writers should go to show business where they would get the appreciation they deserve for their impressive work.

Sure that stupid IGN website spoiled the ending of the Mass Effect's trilogy for everyone years ago so Bioware had to make another ending. I believe they did an impressive job on it. Plus, they didn't want to show the ending on a silver platter... they wanted gamers to think and connect the dots for themselves.



Mass Effect 3's real ending explanation (Click Me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck)) << spoiler... of course

unless Jazz... (spoiler alert) you're pissed at them because all your hard work & moral choices amassed to nothing in the ending then... I kinda agree with you there but still, that ending redeemed it for me.
Haha, nah, no need for flame shield man. I'm not gonna burn you up...


(Spoiler Alert)

I'm familiar with that theory. It occurred to me when I was experiencing the ending (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzYLTbQQEZQ&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLtEQypRNRhYX98V25iuVCBA)and later I watched that very video.
It's quite intriguing, and very clever, BUT it is not an ending... not even close. We can't even be sure that it's correct.
Ultimately the whole deal makes you sad 'cause nothing you did matters. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H_A7SeawU4&list=UU7v3-2K1N84V67IF-WTRG-Q&index=8&feature=plcp)

I'd say it's true that their work would be more appreciated in showbiz.
Because no one is gonna care that 99 minutes of their life was meaningless. Technically, movies are like that anyway.
But finalizing several years and hundreds of hours of play and virtual decision making with an epic mind fcuk is UNACCEPTABLE.
And regardless of it's brilliance, we were lied to (http://blogs-images.forbes.com/insertcoin/files/2012/04/mass-effect-3-ending.png). And that, is also unacceptable.

Just for shtts'n giggles I put together an ending that I'd have been happy with.
It's not a mind bender, it's not some fancy tale of uber special meaning of some such, but it IS AN ENDING (http://jazz117volkov.deviantart.com/#/d4zc4bh)

Hey, I just realized.
I don't care that this derailed this thread.:rolleyes:

[Andre202]

I don't think that's Maxime Beland talking... it's Ubisoft's marketing.

Marketing a Stealth game is difficult. Ubisoft wants gamers everywhere to know that Splinter Cell has changed & what better way to do that than to bad mouth the original SC and say stuff that sings to the gamers who were turned off by previous SC ( being slow / punishing difficulty / not accessible)

It damaged the Legacy series a lot though.
Even people who loved these games are now pretty much agreeing with the marketing of Ubisoft. Not with the dev team itself though, in my opinion. I don't think you can work on a game you don't like and on twitter you also get some hints when they are playing the old games again. Eric Johnson for example is now on Double Agent, Zack was kind to give him the hint to save there a lot. :D

But other then that a lot of people seem to reject a lot of features from the legacy series which are in most cases optional. Now it's pretty hard when you begin to discuss, because You, the one who loves the legacy series, has to have an open mind about the new game and begin to accept the optional features (which isn't really a problem), while the others were pretty much closed when you asked to get optional features from the legacy series back. You needed to accept their M&E but you couldn't ask for optional (ex. intel gathering) features, because then you were the close minded one and somehow people always thought these are the hardcore fans and ghost players who asked for these features. I don't think that's the case at all. People maked it pretty easy for themself at that time to put them into a drawer and say, hey you are there and you are there (Lightsides vs Darksiders). This seperation seems still to be there a bit, I actually didn't like that idea from the beginning and was more or less trying to find a compromise.

Now I am a Ghost player, but I also really enjoy to be the predator or the panther in previous games too (KO or Kill everybody). So if I suggest something I try to consider both groups. If I suggest to bring back the E-Mails, the interrogations and the Data-Sticks back, I am not thinking in the mind of either of these Stealth Groups but in a sense of seeing Stealth also as a opportunity for explorations and more indepth infromation (Splinter Cell!) which both groups can do but aren't forced to do. The more splintered cells you have the better you can see the whole picture and begin to compound the splinters to one cell and it's even not forced upon the player if he wants to do that. You had these things in previous games but did anyone read them who wasn't really willing to read them? I don't think so. So there shouldn't be a problem to bring them back!?

That's an example here and in times of Conviction it was really difficult to discuss with people who were repeating the words of the PR. They had the PR behind them and you were pretty much the one who thought: It seems like they don't want to have me here. Lots of things were just not taken seriously. Now that changed completely and I am happy about that. They have learned from it and I do think Maxime has also learned a lot. I don't think it's easy to switch the franchises everytime and to develope for these different games. They need to have time to understand what Splinter Cell is and you won't be able to do that within one game. That's why I support to have always the same core team for a franchise. Maxime and the whole team also needs to learn what Splinter Cell is and one of the things what Splinter Cell is about is giving you the opportunity to tackle the situation the way you like and their philosophy and PR is completely responding to that value of Splinter Cell through highlighting the three archetypes they are developing for which is Ghost, Panther and Action.

Now from what I have seen I am still not confident enough, because I am sceptical after what happened in Conviction. But I also know that I haven't seen everything while I am sure it's already a lot better then Conviction, I hope further footages they will show and the complete game will diminish my concerns around the narrative design.

[KenTWOu]

Now from what I have seen I am still not confident enough, because I am sceptical after what happened in Conviction. But I also know that I haven't seen everything while I am sure it's already a lot better then Conviction, I hope further footages they will show and the complete game will diminish my concerns around the narrative design.
I'm not confident enough either, but outside of this forum I have to explain to people that Blacklist looks very promising. People doesn't see even obvious stealth features in E3 demo. Their eyes glaze over because of Conviction.

[Andre202]

I'm not confident enough either, but outside of this forum I have to explain to people that Blacklist looks very promising. People doesn't see even obvious stealth features in E3 demo. Their eyes glaze over because of Conviction.

There are a lot of them. In Europe they are crying out loud there to see something more traditional. There weren't a lot of people who got very positive impressions from the E3 demo.

[sameer_monier]

There are a lot of them. In Europe they are crying out loud there to see something more traditional. There weren't a lot of people who got very positive impressions from the E3 demo.
I think it was a mistake on Ubi's part, they should have made it to E3 with 2 different Demos of SCB, one for MS conference showing what we saw, and the same one played again in their own conference or Sony's conference showing complete stealth, they would have won the show.

[SolidSage]

^ Dropping some truth. Let's not forget ALL the creative talents attached to this game. All qualified individuals.

I have to be honest, i AM a little nervous. SCC kind of allowed an excuse for some of the missing stuff. SCB is a full development schedule, what if I DON'T like it more than SCC??? That IS a possibility!
Here's hoping the team is handling the pressure well and are in the process of making us all look foolish for doubting them even a tiny bit. :)

[mateus99]

^i hope so..

[Andre202]

^ Dropping some truth. Let's not forget ALL the creative talents attached to this game. All qualified individuals.

I have to be honest, i AM a little nervous. SCC kind of allowed an excuse for some of the missing stuff. SCB is a full development schedule, what if I DON'T like it more than SCC??? That IS a possibility!
Here's hoping the team is handling the pressure well and are in the process of making us all look foolish for doubting them even a tiny bit. :)
You don't know how much I would like to look foolish... :D

[SpaceDesperado]

Wow you guys are clearly giving him too much credit, development for the 'new' Conviction started early in 2008 the game got delayed all the way to 2010. All the other previous games came within 2 or less years, he didn't have to make all the awful decisions that he made, the Ubisoft Montreal team was bigger than ever, he could've done absolutely anything he wanted. It's not like he created a brand new engine or anything. There's a reason Ubisoft scrapped their previous idea because it strayed too far from the Splinter-Cell gameplay roots.

He's terrible at this, heres a quick idea Maxime, if you insist on including as many 'win' buttons as possible why don't you at least make the mark & execute less godlike by having him actually get shot by one of the numerous a.i. if he's positioned poorly?

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

You don't know how much I would like to look foolish... :D

Same here. I'd love to look like an idiot..

[KenTWOu]

All the other previous games came within 2 or less years
They didn't make them from scratch.


the Ubisoft Montreal team was bigger than ever, he could've done absolutely anything he wanted.
As I posted it before (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/683894-Why-is-Maxime-Beland-working-on-this-game?p=8393450&viewfull=1#post8393450), Maxime said: Ubisoft didn’t want us to make another Double Agent or another Chaos Theory... Ubisoft obviously wanted to see if there was a way to please even more people, to get more people interested in the brand and the genre. That was the mandate and the challenge that we got - can we make stealth something that more people want to play... So he couldn't do absolutely anything he wanted.

Also Montreal team wasn't bigger than ever, cause Ubisoft Montreal worked on other projects too, so the team hired people from Assassin's Creed, Rainbow Six Vegas and Far Cry 2 when they finished their work there. Conviction team was only 200 people at its peak, 200 in Montreal, Bucharest and Paris. While Assassin's Creed 2 team was 450 people (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/assassins-creed-2-team-is-450-strong). It was a huge problem during development, that's why Ubisoft opened new studio Ubisoft Toronto for Splinter Cell:Blacklist.

[MokrieDela]

Jeez, tell me about it. "Too difficult"
Yeah right. they're challenging yeah, but once you figure out a path to take, you're set.

The one thing i'll say in favour of blacklist (and probably the only good thing ill ever say about it) is that the inclusion of a more assault-style approach may increase replayability.
But tbh, no Ironside, still no NV/IR, no SC20K/SC3000 (i mean a crossbow for the sticky shocker?!), a game that doesnt look much like splinter cell, Maxime Bellend's 24 wannabe game.... I dont think im going to buy this. At least not new. MAybe Xmas in the preowned sales (i dont care about online play)...

[KenTWOu]

no IronsideMaxime Bellend's 24 wannabe game...
The third video here (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/683338-The-Devs-Should-Remember-This) said that Michael wanted to go away after Double Agent because he didn't like the story, but he didn't go because Conviction has personal story. Blacklist returns to SC roots, Sam Fisher works for the government once again. Apparently Michael Ironside didn't like this fact, but SC fans like it.


still no NV/IR
We don't know this for sure. But in this interview (http://sneakybastards.net/theobserver/blacklist-interview/) Patrick Redding said that goggles will be upgradeable.


no SC20K/SC3000
There is no point in it, cause now Sam Fisher could take any weapon on the field. They made it for action players. Stealth players could use the crossbow with different gadgets.


a game that doesnt look much like splinter cell
Ubisoft wanted to please more people.


Maxime Bellend's 24 wannabe game...
Conviction story has similarities with 24 tropes and idioms. Blacklist story hasn't! It will be focused on traveling around the world just like Chaos Theory or Double Agent.

[mortpenguin]

He was Creative Lead on Rainbow Six Vegas (one of the better if not BEST Rainbow's)


Vegas was the best Rainbow Six game? Haha. Yes Lockdown was total crap, but Vegas lost the plot as well, about managing a team of multinational operatives. It was just a modern-day Gears of War with a better cover system. And it seems the series is forgoing its tactical roots for good.

No offence intended. Beland has some very good ideas, and I like to see developers express their enthusiasm and passion for gaming, but sometimes things don't work out well which we cannot turn a blind eye to.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

The third video here (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/683338-The-Devs-Should-Remember-This) said that Michael wanted to go away after Double Agent because he didn't like the story, but he didn't go because Conviction has personal story. Blacklist returns to SC roots, Sam Fisher works for the government once again. Apparently Michael Ironside didn't like this fact, but SC fans like it.


We don't know this for sure. But in this interview (http://sneakybastards.net/theobserver/blacklist-interview/) Patrick Redding said that goggles will be upgradeable.


There is no point in it, cause now Sam Fisher could take any weapon on the field. They made it for action players. Stealth players could use the crossbow with different gadgets.


Ubisoft wanted to please more people.


Conviction story has similarities with 24 tropes and idioms. Blacklist story hasn't! It will be focused on traveling around the world just like Chaos Theory or Double Agent.

There is a point for the SC20k/SC3000 -- it afforded a weapon that can dynamically adapt to an assault or stealthy style of gameplay as it could go single shot/automatic/or launch gadgets. It should return as 1. it's the quintessential SC weapon and 2. it just is perfect for how they want people to play as they want as if someone is going to stealthy and crap hits the fan they can use it in the assault and then get back to sneaking.

[logik1911]

Have you folks forgotten about that awful 07 build already? The one that ended up being the laughingstock of E3??? Beland SAVED the brand. Sure Conviction was a bit awkward to play if you're a hardcore stealth player, but it delivered the goods in terms of entertainment value given the problem plagued development schedule and the pressure the studio was under to get out a splinter cell game. I'll be playing deniable ops and the co-op campaign FOREVER. for me that's a win.

Beland himself is pretty talented and has great ideas...the real problem is that he belongs on a more action oriented franchise. His best ideas all have to do with creative violence, ADD style kinetic action, and cinematic set pieces-that's pretty much the antithesis of splinter cell (at least as we knew it). He just needs to be reined in a bit by people more familiar w/ the franchise or more apt to enjoy a stealth experience-folks like Patrick Redding.


Finally, Ubisoft wanted a more mainstream splinter cell game. It's not like Beland came in guns blazing (pun intended) with his own personal directive to turn Sam into a killing machine and started overruling the pro-stealth designers with threats of retribution. They picked him specifically because that's what THEY (higher ups) wanted to see... if we're to blame anyone it's them. What they did to Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon should have clued us into the fact that UBI is no longer in the business of realism or methodical approaches in their games-they've actioned up all of their franchises!!! they are as Hollywood as it gets now!!! If they brought in a director who put together a slow, calculating, hardcore, inaccessible stealth experience that individual would have likely gotten fired. So blaming Beland is akin to shooting the messenger.

[SolidSage]

Vegas was the best Rainbow Six game? Haha. Yes Lockdown was total crap, but Vegas lost the plot as well, about managing a team of multinational operatives. It was just a modern-day Gears of War with a better cover system. And it seems the series is forgoing its tactical roots for good.

Yep. I've played them all since Eagle on PC. Vegas had the best of everything IMO. It had 4 player co-op story LONG before Gears ever imagined it, inverted rappelling, PEC, a FANTASTIC MP, Helo insertions with rappelling, good story, tactical room breaching and hostage rescue. It was a perfected experience with VERY little to complain about. I don't see how it forewent it's tactical roots at all...it didn't have the way point planning of the original PC games and you didn't get to select from a pool of operatives that could expire.
Gears of War may have borrowed from R6, why wouldn't you? COD is basically a shallow rip off of some of the basic features. I've been saying it for years, Rainbow's only shortcoming was that it released prior to gaming going main stream. COD is missing about 60% of the features R6V had and is DOMINATING the shooter genre because of it. Nice and easy to get into, and it doesn't require a lot to be good at it. So casual gamers can hang with the hardcore because there just isn't that much that you can do.
Gears is a lot more fun than COD. Very good game in fact.


No offence intended. Beland has some very good ideas, and I like to see developers express their enthusiasm and passion for gaming, but sometimes things don't work out well which we cannot turn a blind eye to.

None taken. I'm not here looking for people who share my opinion. I think SCC turned out very well. I like it more than Legacy. I hope that Blacklist returns some of the things from Legacy that I miss and becomes the ultimate entry in the SC franchise, but if it doesn't, and is just an evolution of SCC, I will still be very happy.

[logik1911]

Yep. I've played them all since Eagle on PC. Vegas had the best of everything IMO. It had 4 player co-op story LONG before Gears ever imagined it, inverted rappelling, PEC, a FANTASTIC MP, Helo insertions with rappelling, good story, tactical room breaching and hostage rescue. It was a perfected experience with VERY little to complain about. I don't see how it forewent it's tactical roots at all...it didn't have the way point planning of the original PC games and you didn't get to select from a pool of operatives that could expire.
Gears of War may have borrowed from R6, why wouldn't you? COD is basically a shallow rip off of some of the basic features. I've been saying it for years, Rainbow's only shortcoming was that it released prior to gaming going main stream. COD is missing about 60% of the features R6V had and is DOMINATING the shooter genre because of it. Nice and easy to get into, and it doesn't require a lot to be good at it. So casual gamers can hang with the hardcore because there just isn't that much that you can do.
Gears is a lot more fun than COD. Very good game in fact.



None taken. I'm not here looking for people who share my opinion. I think SCC turned out very well. I like it more than Legacy. I hope that Blacklist returns some of the things from Legacy that I miss and becomes the ultimate entry in the SC franchise, but if it doesn't, and is just an evolution of SCC, I will still be very happy.

Rainbow Six Vegas had a good story?

[KenTWOu]

There is a point for the SC20k/SC3000 -- it afforded a weapon that can dynamically adapt to an assault or stealthy style of gameplay as it could go single shot/automatic/or launch gadgets...
There is no point for SC20k/SC3000, cause now It can't dynamically adapt to any style of gameplay, cause it's very slow. It has very slow recharge rate, very slow mode changing. Such speed was suitable for slow paced Chaos Theory, now it would be frustrating.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

There is no point for SC20k/SC3000, cause now It can't dynamically adapt to any style of gameplay, cause it's very slow. It has very slow recharge rate, very slow mode changing. Such speed was suitable for slow paced Chaos Theory, now it would be frustrating.

What they can't upgrade the speed of recharge (also...what do you mean recharge? I'm not an expert with guns soooo yeah)?

It'd be a good weapon for 1. Ghosts who will use it as they always have (gadgets n all), 2. Panthers who go from stealth and then get into a sticky situation where they need opt to use it in an assault manner and then can slip back into stealth afterward (can apply to ghosts as well depending on if they're truly ghosting or just being very sneaky and taking out only who they need to), and 3. Is just an extra weapon for the assault gamers to utilize. They included the SC3000 in SCC and they have sticky shockers (and apparently other LTL things as well) so why couldn't they bring back the SC-20k?

[shobhit7777777]

I think they should include the SC20K/3000

Bob makes some good points. No reason NOT to have it. Plus the new SC-3000 looks sooooos sexy

On a side note I'd like the TAR-21 to be made a part of SC as well. It is a nice compact and accurate rifle meant for urban operations...plus it looks like SC20's younger, hotter sister.
And the best part....the TAR is absolutely modular...with the ability to change it's caliber on the fly.

The TAR fits the SC-20k's game manual description perfectly

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M5UwRF0akXQ/TdI-u8mD9KI/AAAAAAAAC2E/AyOzppupXjk/s1600/TAR_21_with_MARS_sight.gif

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I want them to have the original version of the SC-20k....it was big and bulky and it was good they used the smaller variant for CT onward because realistically, that'd be better to have BUT....something about the original one was cool -- the trapezoid scope and the huge *** silencer looked SO BADA$$!!
So ideally they'd bring it back. I think they should have a whole slew of SC weaponry.

SC-20k: The bulky but classic version from SAR/PT; no reason to have the CT version when you're gonna also have the 3000 which is more or less the same size haha
SC3000: The slimmer SC weapon used right before and during the 3E Conspiracy
SC-21b: The TAR-21 which looks totally awesome...I like all guns with bullpup designs
SC-90: Based on the P90
SC-AR:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Operation_Tiger_Balm_09_SAR-21_MMS.jpg/800px-Operation_Tiger_Balm_09_SAR-21_MMS.jpg

There could be lots of guns that look similar...

[The_5_Freedoms]

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/8527639/640/8527639.jpg (http://picturepush.com/public/8527639)

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Ehhh...I don't like the look of guns like that compared to things like the F2000.

They look cool, don't get me wrong but they just don't look as cool IMO

[mortpenguin]

SC-AR:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Operation_Tiger_Balm_09_SAR-21_MMS.jpg/800px-Operation_Tiger_Balm_09_SAR-21_MMS.jpg



The gun pictured is a heavily modified version of Singapore's SAR-21 rifle, which also features a bullpup design. I know this because I served in the country's military, and the soldier on the left is from Singapore.

[KenTWOu]

Ok, I get it, we need another one Gunsmith weapon customization mode from Ghost Recon:Future Soldier :)


What they can't upgrade the speed of recharge (also...what do you mean recharge? I'm not an expert with guns soooo yeah)?
I'm not an expert either, I talked about SC20k/SC3000 in terms of Chaos Theory gameplay. You can't put such weapon in Blacklist without balancing it, without making its management a lot faster.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Ok, I get it, we need another one Gunsmith weapon customization mode from Ghost Recon:Future Soldier :)


I'm not an expert either, I talked about SC20k/SC3000 in terms of Chaos Theory gameplay. You can't put such weapon in Blacklist without balancing it, without making its management a lot faster.

I think they could easily make it capable of doing the classic semi-automatic and then on-the-fly switch it to auto, just like SAR. the only difference would be is that the gun would be altered and handle a little differently. I doubt it'd need anything substantially different. Simply using SCC's/SCB's firing mechanics as they are but with the SC-20k would already relieve most, if not all, the issues as it is (I believe)

[SolidSage]

I want the Vector from GRFS.....and Gunsmith. Cue RedDragon image upload..

I have to agree with Freedoms though, that M4 and it's customization is undeniably useful. It was equal to the SC3000 in SCC, minus one Mark I think. What are the major differences between it and the AR-15? Anybody?


@Freedoms
Sorry, are you a female? Sometimes I think you are other times I think you are ex military recon assassin BA dude! Please clarify.

[The_5_Freedoms]

@Freedoms
Sorry, are you a female? Sometimes I think you are other times I think you are ex military recon assassin BA dude! Please clarify.
I'm neither.

[Fraeulein]

He's terrible at this, heres a quick idea Maxime, if you insist on including as many 'win' buttons as possible why don't you at least make the mark & execute less godlike by having him actually get shot by one of the numerous a.i. if he's positioned poorly?
Uh... You do know that you didn't have to use M&E right? If you wanted that "hardcore" play. You didn't have to use it. You could do it old school and just shoot people one by one, or grab and then drag them to a dark corner and kill them.
Maybe that was just me though.