Blacklist has The power to make or break the franchise UBI Toronto please read

[mistahkmak]

After the last two current gen sc titles (which i enjoyed both despite flaws), a less than adequate hd collection which was completely in the shadows compared to mgshd, a weak remake for splinter cell 3d which once again was not remade as well as mgs3d. It would unfortunately seem that Sam is on life support :(. Black list has the power to make or break the franchise. If it is a flop, then the series could very well end on a bad note (worst case scenario). Or it could surprise us and put the series back on the radar of elite games. So now I'm asking you what are your 10 favorite things you have seen from the videos and the 10 worst things you have seen.

10 best.

customize the **** out of everything
tactical suit is back
separate alt weapons launcher
increased ai
knife
nv/thermo
use disguises
svm/coop
ltl takedowns
body carrying
______________________________

10 worst

killing in motion
airstrikes??
mark and execute is back and more powerful
LKP
young sam??
new voice
REGENERATIVE ****ING WOLVERINE HEALTH!!!!:mad:
action set pieces
crack monkey climbing returns filled with more crack inspired ape-ness
limited level size (at least in the demo)
slowmotion














Ubi toronto please alter the story and make eric a new splintercell instead of sam

[Daedalus_89]

You're right that a lot is riding on Blacklist. This is pretty much their last chance (no pressure or anything, Ubisoft) to prove that Sam Fisher's story is still one worth following.

But there's also a lot said since the initial trailer release that it appears you've missed.

It's been confirmed that regenerative health will not be back.

It appears that there will be a balanced integration of both stealth and action, largely depending on the decisions that the player makes.

Mark and execute was optional in Conviction, and it ought to be optional in Blacklist. Nobody says you have to use it. It just something that lends itself to the players who are more interested in a cinematic style of gameplay.

It seems that airstrikes will also be optional. When Grim brought it up during the trailer, she said something to the effect of "let me know IF you need it or are feeling overwhelmed." I'm paraphrasing, but indicates to me that it will be a matter of pressing a button or not pressing it.

I don't think limited level size will be a problem either. There's rumors that Blacklist is going to be much longer than Conviction was. The trailer was just a little taste of what is to come. For all we know, that one level they showed is massive.

You mentioned slowmotion twice. Yeah, it's overdone. We've been seeing bullet time in movies and video games since The Matrix decided it was pretty nifty.
But if you don't use mark and execute, I can't see it being a problem.

[Andre202]

It's been confirmed that regenerative health will not be back.
Where? I thought it was confirmed to return.




Mark and execute was optional in Conviction, and it ought to be optional in Blacklist. Nobody says you have to use it. It just something that lends itself to the players who are more interested in a cinematic style of gameplay.
In Blacklist you can really say that. In Conviction you had the problem that a lot of patrol pattern were designed around the M&E which doesn't make that feature feel optional. But I think it's quite the case in Blacklist.

[Stealthgamer001]

Yes, regenerating health is in Blacklist. It's visible in the demo, and it's been confirmed by UbiZack.

EDIT:
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/682229-Health-System?p=8373093#post8373093

"I don't mean to burst your bubble, but there is regenerative health in Splinter Cell Blacklist."

[mistahkmak]

You're right that a lot is riding on Blacklist. This is pretty much their last chance (no pressure or anything, Ubisoft) to prove that Sam Fisher's story is still one worth following.

But there's also a lot said since the initial trailer release that it appears you've missed.

It's been confirmed that regenerative health will not be back.

It appears that there will be a balanced integration of both stealth and action, largely depending on the decisions that the player makes.

Mark and execute was optional in Conviction, and it ought to be optional in Blacklist. Nobody says you have to use it. It just something that lends itself to the players who are more interested in a cinematic style of gameplay.

It seems that airstrikes will also be optional. When Grim brought it up during the trailer, she said something to the effect of "let me know IF you need it or are feeling overwhelmed." I'm paraphrasing, but indicates to me that it will be a matter of pressing a button or not pressing it.

I don't think limited level size will be a problem either. There's rumors that Blacklist is going to be much longer than Conviction was. The trailer was just a little taste of what is to come. For all we know, that one level they showed is massive.

You mentioned slowmotion twice. Yeah, it's overdone. We've been seeing bullet time in movies and video games since The Matrix decided it was pretty nifty.
But if you don't use mark and execute, I can't see it being a problem.

The level shown was geared towards m@E, remember that part after sam cuts the tent and there is a section crawling with enemies. There is no way to get through that without firing your gun, unless your really lucky

[Daedalus_89]

Yes, regenerating health is in Blacklist. It's visible in the demo, and it's been confirmed by UbiZack.

EDIT:
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/682229-Health-System?p=8373093#post8373093

"I don't mean to burst your bubble, but there is regenerative health in Splinter Cell Blacklist."


Odd. I apologize then. I had heard elsewhere, probably false rumors, that regenerative health was gone.

[PsychoNite]

sales-wise blacklist will do very well. it has everything it needs to attract the masses so this will not kill splinter cell. theyll keep making more of them until it stops selling, but for most hardcore fans the game could be a total disaster.

like i said tho, blacklist will sell and they know it.
ever wonder why people like the Transformers movies? cus its the same reason for why people loved conviction

[Crucify Lucifer]

The level shown was geared towards m@E, remember that part after sam cuts the tent and there is a section crawling with enemies. There is no way to get through that without firing your gun, unless your really lucky

Or they could've made the level take place at nighttime >_> irks me to see day time missions.

[MadamTampini]

Regen health is toooooo much, Sam is HUMAN not a freakin superhero, which is also why he's never been a mass-murderer until now. I also really really really dislike mark and execute, I definitely felt like it was completely necessary to use mark and execute in Conviction because there's no obvious way to get past it. OP IS RIGHT, Blacklist will either make or break Splinter Cell. I hope Ubi Tor has realized this as well, and are heeding our WARNINGS about this obvious impending doom to SC.

I am also curious who is saying Conviction was great? No where have I read people still even talking about Conviction, it dropped off the radar immediately, which is what happens when you make a game that does not go beyond face-value.

[mistahkmak]

sales-wise blacklist will do very well. it has everything it needs to attract the masses so this will not kill splinter cell. theyll keep making more of them until it stops selling, but for most hardcore fans the game could be a total disaster.

like i said tho, blacklist will sell and they know it.
ever wonder why people like the Transformers movies? cus its the same reason for why people loved conviction

compared to prior SC game sales conviction did between poor and adequate.


M&E breaks the tension because it is an easy escape, even if you don't use it you may think, "three guards left I could ***** out, give sam2.0 a slap in the back of his neck and he'll do the work for me".

The controls are definitely geared towards action panther with stealth controls as an after thought for instance
crouch universal
cover universal
sonar universal
movement universal
airstrike action
Mark action
execute action
ntl/ko universal
a does everything universal

[SpaceDesperado]

Also, towards the end of the e3 demo it's impossible to get the guy and attempt to interrogate him before he commits suicide without using the mark and execute, even with the 'alternative' method of going around the roof and rappelling down. Expect plenty of these forced instances.

I also dislike it when people say "conviction sold a million, that makes it a success!" People need to realize compared to the original xbox's population the xbox 360 in 2010 had a huge amount of more gamers. It's an even more apparent flop when you add the fact the game catered to people who enjoyed the evidently more popular simple shooters with 'win' buttons mapped on every part of the controller as well as the fact that 30-40% of the people who bought the game were dedicated Splinter-Cell fans who believed they would actually cater to both gameplay styles.

The real reason it didn't sell well though? One, some of the people they were catering to were still scared that it may be too complex and they would not be able to take full advantage of the game. Two, the true Splinter-Cell fans weren't stupid enough to fall for their trash.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I don't know....maybe it's not forced. Maybe we can avoid detection from the truck and those enemies and then rappel down to a vent and come up somewhere else. Maybe you're right -- hope you're not. But we dont know for a FACT we can't get in another way plus the demo mission is probably going to be altered in the final version anyway and may include an alt. stealth path if it already doesnt. Maybe. They say there will be some forced elements but not to the extent of SCC and hopefully it's more like the forced instance of SAR or something -- like when you're captured at the end which was scary, surprising and different or like when you had to fight Grinkos men and then kill Grinko.

As it stands, the way it's currently set up implies that even if you get into the room without detection, you'll have to kill the enemies or KO them in order to get Jadid. I'll be *okay* with that as sometimes the enemies would be positioned in a way where you have to take them out (eeither by killing them or KOing them -- they're not always going to beconviently placed so its easy to sneak by them and get the target -- what crappy bodyguards in that case. I just hope we rarely have to do that. A couple times sprinkled throughout the game is fine -- every mission once will be annoying as all hell -- multiple times in every mission will be SCC2 but so far it sounds like they're really making an attempt to minimize forced sequences and keep it only for the most crucial story elements -- i.e. enemies wont suddenly know youre there halfway through a mission just because the game says so, but you may have to kill a room who's protecting the badguy at points. Hopefully thats the case.

My only issue is that I should still be able to find a QUIET way in without being detected before I have tokill the enemies to get Jadid and thats what I'm afraid of. Sam Fisher would avoid blowing open a door or crashing through the window if he could go under them and open a trap door or something.

[mistahkmak]

I don't know....maybe it's not forced. Maybe we can avoid detection from the truck and those enemies and then rappel down to a vent and come up somewhere else. Maybe you're right -- hope you're not. But we dont know for a FACT we can't get in another way plus the demo mission is probably going to be altered in the final version anyway and may include an alt. stealth path if it already doesnt. Maybe. They say there will be some forced elements but not to the extent of SCC and hopefully it's more like the forced instance of SAR or something -- like when you're captured at the end which was scary, surprising and different or like when you had to fight Grinkos men and then kill Grinko.

As it stands, the way it's currently set up implies that even if you get into the room without detection, you'll have to kill the enemies or KO them in order to get Jadid. I'll be *okay* with that as sometimes the enemies would be positioned in a way where you have to take them out (eeither by killing them or KOing them -- they're not always going to beconviently placed so its easy to sneak by them and get the target -- what crappy bodyguards in that case. I just hope we rarely have to do that. A couple times sprinkled throughout the game is fine -- every mission once will be annoying as all hell -- multiple times in every mission will be SCC2 but so far it sounds like they're really making an attempt to minimize forced sequences and keep it only for the most crucial story elements -- i.e. enemies wont suddenly know youre there halfway through a mission just because the game says so, but you may have to kill a room who's protecting the badguy at points. Hopefully thats the case.

My only issue is that I should still be able to find a QUIET way in without being detected before I have tokill the enemies to get Jadid and thats what I'm afraid of. Sam Fisher would avoid blowing open a door or crashing through the window if he could go under them and open a trap door or something.

as another member mentioned in order for killing in motion to be possible the guards have to be clumped together

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

And? I'm saying that realistically, bodyguards in that scenario may be clumped together. Should every group be? No. And I'm still not going to use M&E in this case.

[Daedalus_89]

as another member mentioned in order for killing in motion to be possible the guards have to be clumped together

Which would never happen in real life, or one grenade could incapacitate every single one of them. Usual bodyguard strategy for a high-risk target involves one or two guards in the immediate area of the intended, while others are spread out to keep an eye out for potential threats and provide mobile cover should the need arise.
This also adds a greater risk factor for the attacker, since he has to account for the other protectors. It's not just a simple matter of picking up a sniper rifle and blowing the target's brains out anymore. You have to worry about reciprocation.

This also being the reason why an attacker who is willing to die to eliminate their target is what bodyguards fear the most.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

And I've heard of all the complaints against M&E, theclumped together enemies, the win button, the unrealistic aspect of it, etc. I'm pointing out that those LAST enemies clumped together is realistic, while if every enemy in the game is clumped together...it'll be stupid.