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EzioAssassin51
06-14-2012, 07:44 AM
Hey guys, not sure where to say or put this but if you watch this commentated walkthrough the commentator mentions something about terrain (I've posted in the Tree Branches thread) and he also mentioned there are 3 WAYS!!!! into the fort, clearly showing this game has tons of freedom for the player, both stealthily and all out assault if they want!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GwnzRufewJU


Sorry if this has another thread, just link me to it if there is please :)

sidspyker24
06-14-2012, 07:51 AM
Yeah, I saw this yesterday, that commentator is Alex(the creative director) he says that the fighting was on uneven terrain and the weapons etc didn't go above the head or glitched because of terrain and has 3 ways into the fort, this one was the stealthy approach.

MT4K
06-14-2012, 10:36 AM
I have to admit though. it might not have gotten as talked about as other features, but the fact they managed to create uneven terrain and have it actually look fluid and non glitchy still impresses me. As the devs once said "there's a reason many games have fights on flat surfaces". so i cannot actually wait to just run about all over the place and see how Connor actualy interacts with his entire environment.

BATISTABUS
06-14-2012, 10:45 AM
I may be in the minority here, but this actually worries me. This means that instead of focusing all of their effort on making one way interesting and challenging, they divided that effort by three. That also means that there is likely a "kill everyone in your path" route, which has been a major problem within the AC franchise.

Still, we'll have to wait and see. If combat is significantly harder or more risky, and however you decide to approach a mission is determined by your preference and not simply the path of least resistance, I'll be very happy. My concerns exist because in the past this has not been the case. Still, this mission was shown to us in the form of a demo, so it has to be quick and straightforward (and possibly dumbed down) for promotional purposes.

Assassin_M
06-14-2012, 10:48 AM
Darn a world that wants to be forced to be stealthy..

BATISTABUS
06-14-2012, 11:11 AM
Stealth is something that we've been promised since day one, but never reached the quality of the other two Pillars. Also, it adds difficulty in a way unlike what is offered in most games nowadays.

Assassin_M
06-14-2012, 11:13 AM
Stealth is something that we've been promised since day one, but never reached the quality of the other two Pillars. Also, it adds difficulty in a way unlike what is offered in most games nowadays.
BE STEALTHY then..
Why do you want it to be forced ? and my oh my if you count the number of missions that can be stealthy over the last 4 games, you`d see how much stealth is emphasized..

BATISTABUS
06-14-2012, 11:19 AM
BE STEALTHY then..
Why do you want it to be forced ? and my oh my if you count the number of missions that can be stealthy over the last 4 games, you`d see how much stealth is emphasized..
Yeah, and most of those missions don't have consequences for plowing through enemies. There are a number that do, but a lot of those only require not being detected for 100% Synch. I shouldn't have to waste time handicapping myself to make up for the poor level design. If players were forced to play stealthy, then the developers could put more time into making stealth fun and challenging. Currently, stealth is just more time consuming than fighting through all of the enemies, and isn't any more fun or rewarding.

Assassin_M
06-14-2012, 11:21 AM
Yeah, and most of those missions don't have consequences for plowing through enemies. There are a number that do, but a lot of those only require not being detected for 100% Synch. I shouldn't have to waste time handicapping myself to make up for the poor level design. If players were forced to play stealthy, then the developers could put more time into making stealth fun and challenging. Currently, stealth is just more time consuming than fighting through all of the enemies, and isn't any more fun or rewarding.
I rest my case..
Its freedom, buddy..
Agree to disagree

sidspyker24
06-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Uhm..Stealth IS supposed to take more time.

BATISTABUS
06-14-2012, 11:36 AM
I'm not sure what case you're resting, but what I was trying to say was...

In previous games, stealth has been under-developed. It takes more time to do, and isn't particularly rewarding. I believe there is a lot of potential in stealth-based gameplay in Assassin's Creed, so if more time or energy could be focused on improving this Pillar, I think the game in general would benefit in a number of ways, specifically in the forms of level design and game difficulty. Game critics universally agree that Assassin's Creed is too easy. In Revelations, there was an attempt at increasing the difficulty of enemies by changing their behavior, but this just made fighting more annoying and time consuming rather than difficult. I strongly believe that an emphasis on stealth could bring the difficulty most gamers seem to desire.

It's freedom, but it's also a sacrifice of quality for quantity. It's a nice idea, but doesn't deliver in the end. Between combat, free-running, and stealth, the latter is clearly the least polished, and that's a problem.

If you just want a fantastic story with amazing environments and little-to-no challenge, that's fine. While it may seem greedy, I'm looking for something just a little bit denser.


Uhm..Stealth IS supposed to take more time.
Obviously, but my point is that it isn't any more rewarding. It doesn't feel like time well spent. You might as well just beat the game more quickly.

MT4K
06-14-2012, 11:45 AM
I agree stealth could feel perhaps more rewarding, but it definitely shouldn't be forced. if it got forced more often than it currently has been you would have lots of people complaining they shouldn't have to be stealthy when they are a badass assassin who should be capable of eliminating his enemies rapidly. Heck some people in the past did complain about the few forced stealth missions already in the previous games.

I like stealth myself. i've gone through the games at least once being as stealthy as i possibly can, but i also like a good ol' fashioned fight and feeling like a badass. so if either way was forced i'd feel deprived of choice and freedom to do what i wanted which is the heart of the AC games.

In short: stealth is great but shouldn't be forced. however i personally agree that anything to make it feel more rewarding would be welcome and a plus.

BATISTABUS
06-14-2012, 11:57 AM
Yeah. I don't think that the game should be 100% stealth, but I was mainly pointing out how much work it needed and the potential that still hasn't been tapped. If combat has been improved as much as the developers suggest, that could mean a lot for adding depth to the experience. Still, it's much more difficult to design a level that is equally challenging and fun when played two completely different ways. That's my main problem with the "freedom" aspect.

Assassin_M
06-14-2012, 12:03 PM
Im still not exactly sure how Stealth needs more polishing in your opinion in AC III..

sidspyker24
06-14-2012, 12:06 PM
Well they are trying, aren't they? Stalking Zones, Moving cover, Cover behind objects/walls, multiple routes, quick death due to firing line.

BATISTABUS
06-14-2012, 12:14 PM
Well they are trying, aren't they? Stalking Zones, Moving cover, Cover behind objects/walls, multiple routes, quick death due to firing line.
Yes. These things all sound great on paper, and I'm really excited about them. The multiple options hasn't worked very well in the past, and while it'd be very difficult to pull off this type of level design successfully, I'm still hopeful. So far everything regarding ACIII looks fantastic, and it looks like the team is really giving it their all. Like with the changes to the multiplayer, we'll just have to play and see.

oliacr
06-14-2012, 01:15 PM
awesome news

EzioAssassin51
06-14-2012, 02:02 PM
Wait.. Wait... Are you saying you're for forced stealth? Sorry, but this is a big change, considering, as said above, literally every complains about the stealth being forced :P

Turul.
06-14-2012, 05:48 PM
The developers have stated many many times that they dont want the players to be forced to play a certain way.

Assassin's creed is full of choices. you may not get full synchronization, but you can still play the game however you want.

And if you really do understand AC games you would realize that playing stealthy creates an advantage for you 99% of the time.

SixKeys
06-14-2012, 05:55 PM
If there are indeed multiple ways of doing each mission (and not just one or two), then I will be very pleased. AC1 was all about giving players the choice between stealth or all-out attack, it's about time they got back to that formula. Although I must admit I don't see how blowing up a stack of gunpowder is the "stealthy" way. I hope there's another way to perform the mission that doesn't require the player to create a big spectacle.

Azurefeatherfly
06-14-2012, 06:21 PM
Fighting is fast and quick, the player barges in and kills the target. The only risk is the fact that fighting can result in the death of protagonist because he would be more exposed.

Stealth is slow and time-consuming, the player has to plan and execute carefully. The risks include being detected and possibly forced into fighting, thus resulting in the death of protagonist.

I think the point here is the amount of effort and risk compared to the reward. In my opinion, that is the point batistabus wants to make.

NewBlade200
06-14-2012, 07:04 PM
I dont think stealth should be forced but combat should be so difficult that the game encourages sneaking

BATISTABUS
06-15-2012, 05:23 AM
Overall, I think stealth should be emphasized and freedom should be carefully limited. For example, I think there can be freedom within a stealth mission; the player has to get from point A to point B, and there are many different choices to make within those limitations. If the objective is just "Kill Your Target", that's lazy level design labeled as freedom. Again, I still think there should be plenty of fighting and free-running missions.

I know the AC team has always stated they want the player to play however they want, but I think this is a mistake. This mentality has brought on a lack of depth, challenge, and ironically...diversity. Players will stick to their preferred style, and ultimately end up with a less varied experience.

Again, the new changes to ACIII look promising, and I'd love to have the best of both worlds.

Evenesque
06-15-2012, 05:33 AM
Just because Hutchinson says there's 3 ways into the fort, doesn't mean you'll be relegated to getting into it in only 3 ways. I'm thinking he means there's 3 entrances. How you get them is up to you.

sidspyker24
06-15-2012, 05:42 AM
Just because Hutchinson says there's 3 ways into the fort, doesn't mean you'll be relegated to getting into it in only 3 ways. I'm thinking he means there's 3 entrances. How you get them is up to you.
^That. Also..it's a FORT! It's not supposed to have many weaknesses.

deskp
06-15-2012, 07:45 AM
Forced stealth is the worst. It's fun till you get cought and have to restart the level "**** it Fisher I'm pulling you out"...

Btw one way combat is more difficult is 2 enemies can now attack at once, so you'll have to be more active.



like AC how its been, if you are in it just for the stealth and aren't satisfied, then thats your problem you've had 4 games to learn what ac is about.

BATISTABUS
06-15-2012, 10:15 AM
Forced stealth is the worst. It's fun till you get cought and have to restart the level "**** it Fisher I'm pulling you out"...
That just means you're too impatient or the game is too hard for you. I'm looking for a challenge, which is something that was virtually non-existent in every installment so far.


if you are in it just for the stealth and aren't satisfied, then thats your problem you've had 4 games to learn what ac is about.
I know very well what AC is about, and I'm not just in it for the stealth. If you're just in it for the open combat, you'd be better off with a hack-and-slash button masher. I understand the mission of the developers, what has been promised, and what has (and has not) been delivered. If you want to accept the games for how they are, that's fine. They're great games, and I love them all. That being said, the games are incredibly easy, and stealth is BY FAR the least developed Pillar (and as a result, the least favored pillar by fans). I'm trying to provide meaningful feedback to improve an aspect of the game that has been criticized by reviewers for years.


Just because Hutchinson says there's 3 ways into the fort, doesn't mean you'll be relegated to getting into it in only 3 ways. I'm thinking he means there's 3 entrances. How you get them is up to you.
He specifically mentioned the chosen entrance as being "the stealth path".

Don't misunderstand. I don't want the game to be exclusively stealth-based, but I think a large part of it should be centered around being a sneaky assassin. I don't think ACIII will suck just because the players are offered options. I'm very excited about the game (I've already pre-ordered it in full) and the new tools that have been implemented for a stealthy approach. I'm also excited for the new developments in combat. I was just commenting on an aspect of the game that has always been lacking.

Mr_Shade
06-15-2012, 12:08 PM
End of the day, the game gives you the option and tools to play it how you want..

How you play the game, is down to you...

Crucify Lucifer
06-15-2012, 01:53 PM
Uhm..Stealth IS supposed to take more time.

I personally enjoy stealth over action, and that's the very beauty of it. Savoring the time it takes to close in on the prey is what makes it far more satisfying than killing every guard on the map.

sidspyker24
06-15-2012, 02:01 PM
I personally enjoy stealth over action, and that's the very beauty of it. Savoring the time it takes to close in on the prey is what makes it far more satisfying than killing every guard on the map.
Your pic speaks enough for me, I was a Splinter Cell fan myself...then I took Conviction in the knee.
Anyway, yeah that was exactly what I was saying, that Stealth IS supposed to take time and the reward is supposed to be personal satisfaction, among other things like no massive fights, so play your own way and ask for a 'Stealth-game AC". That was for batistabus

BATISTABUS
06-18-2012, 11:56 PM
How you play the game, is down to you...
I think this ironically decreases the quality of the game. I'm not saying there shouldn't be freedom, but I think it should be more limited than it has been.