40MM HEDP Needs Tweaks

[Paragon Fury]

So, after finally getting to play some organized matches, (IE: Not public matches) with some organized teams, I've come to see why the HEDP needs to be nerfed.

It basically determines entire games. It ends Siege rounds before they even begin, has the ability to stop or interrupt any objective from across the map on many maps, even from spawn on some maps, requires little aiming skill and you basically have infinite ammo for it if there is an Ammo Box or Resupply around.

I think the easiest solution is probably that you should only get 1 HEDP round, and they can't be refilled by anything (except respawning).

However, I thought of a more radical solution, that gives another use to a lesser used piece of Equipment - the Jammer.

The idea is that the Jammer acts as sort an "Anti-Launcher" defense, that causes any launched explosive to immediately detonate as soon as it comes within the Jammer's radius, including rounds from the UCAV. While the EMP launcher would obviously destroy the Jammer and the Smoke launcher would be unaffected, it would give Engineers and teams a way to counter-act GL spam and usage without having to resort to it themselves. It would give the Jammer another use without overpowering it, and still let the HEDP be usable without having a counter.

[DannyStrong]

I think it's fine as is. objectives are strategically placed by the map makers in places that are difficult to get grenade launchers on to. most objectives can only be successfully hit by grenade launchers from 2ish spots. If your team really is worthy of the objective they should be able to stop someone using the grenade launcher.

[WombatT6]

I think it's fine as is. objectives are strategically placed by the map makers in places that are difficult to get grenade launchers on to. most objectives can only be successfully hit by grenade launchers from 2ish spots. If your team really is worthy of the objective they should be able to stop someone using the grenade launcher.

Yea, I've never had an enemy team using GL's determine a match, if it really gets on my nerves I'll start doing it back to them, and since they are noobs in the first place, it usually makes them quit after they can't get any more kills.

[IIIURBNIII]

No, what people in the U.S need to do is stop using them

I say U.S because ive been on this game most days an nights, every goddamm time it gets to 10pm all the U.S players are on using them

I have no problem with launchers otherwise, and ive noticed a recent increase in the kids playing this game, along with thier camping and launcher spamming

[DannyStrong]

"camping" is a part of the game.. you attack and defend objectives...

[IIIURBNIII]

No, camping at your spawn isnt helping the team when no one has your back, its annoying an these kids wanna learn the meaning of teamwork

[HarleqES]

I use a launcher as the 2nd weapon for my engineer to deal with entrenchment. As the map designs are poor, and because entrenchment is often very easy to accomplish on some objectives, sometimes the only way to deal with the situation is long range explosives. Unfortunately, that's just how it is. Some of these maps seem as though they'd fit perfectly in Rainbow Six: Vegas, but the game is lacking in any of that one's polish, balance, or flow. Now, I've found the launcher is, at best, unreliable. It won't cause any detonation about half the time, and cannot be launched at distance with any hope for accuracy. It has only one consistantly effective use, which is the one I've noted. It's almost better as a knock-down weapon, rather than for killing. So clearly, if your only successful tactic in matches is one that can be readily countered by launchers, perhaps it's time to try another tactic.

[IIIURBNIII]

Well thats funny seeing as 9 times outta 10 I can get killed 10ft away with it, even splash damage kills me

Ive never ever ever in all my time gaming, used any type of explosive launcher in the MP, I dont need to. I dont even have them unlocked cus im in no rush to get them

My tactics are fine, im 1000 kills over my deaths, yet these losers at night come in with thier cheap tactics and make the game feel ****ty

Have you ever tried defending an objective with 4 people launching you? Theres nothing you can do

[HarleqES]

Have you ever tried defending an objective with 4 people launching you? Theres nothing you can do

That's precisely the point. If this game were designed and played like a proper Ghost Recon title, your choice of defensive strategy would not be so highly effected by launchers, and so launchers wouldn't be so readily used to defeat that defense.

K/D ratio isn't a factor here. If anything, it only makes me further suspicious of your tactics to hear that irrelevant fact come up. Let's face it... some people just try to use a specific map feature to their advantage every time they find themselves in the area. Some folks will always go right to that spot and camp there because of a design flaw in the map allowing them to create an exploit. The launcher will likely be the only means to dislodge you from that poorly designed part of the map. High k/d ratios tell me that a player is not putting himself in harm's way. The only way that happens is when he can shoot, but others can't shoot back. In that case, which tactic is more cheap? You know what I'm saying here?

[Nexolate]

Text.

Answer: Grenade Launcher.
Reason: It doesn't depend on a specific area of the map.

Sorry but you can't rule out all people. Sure, some people might be in it for the actual tactical uses of a grenade launcher.
Most though? They probably come from the CoD school of doctrine.

Regards,
Nexo

EDIT: Also there are many ways to deal with a camper. There are few for grenade launchers, other than to catch the user by surprise.

[RELYTNING]

High k/d ratios tell me that a player is not putting himself in harm's way. The only way that happens is when he can shoot, but others can't shoot back.lol, you be trollin here? I've got a 1.8ish k/d, which is decent. It's like that probably because I'm constantly data hacking people, so I know where my opponents are the majority of the time. Not only that, but whenever people play in stacked teams it's far easier to pad their k/d's and w/l's. How do you get that impression from a high k/d...

[WombatT6]

lol, you be trollin here? I've got a 1.8ish k/d, which is decent. It's like that probably because I'm constantly data hacking people, so I know where my opponents are the majority of the time. Not only that, but whenever people play in stacked teams it's far easier to pad their k/d's and w/l's. How do you get that impression from a high k/d...

In his mind, the only way to win is to go sprinting toward the objective over and over until your corpses pile high enough to make a wall to provide you with some cover while you capture the objective.

A good team moves in on the objective clearing the path as they go, then sets up a perimeter around it while a teammate grabs it. This strategy leads to a lot of kills.

[Roverover]

i think this belongs here
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/21869320.jpg

[o Wullie Mac o]

The GL has it's flaws, we need 40mm exacto ammo to perk it up.

[BETA OPTICS]

Well I haven't played with a lot of U.S if they are the only ones using them but I haven't had much problem with them, sure they sometimes piss you off a bit but that is just part of the game, I mean UAV and sentrys and claymores are a lot badder things in the battlefield than the GL. best solution that I've found is to have a LMG or a sniper to keep them away so that they can't see the objective. What comes to siege mode, there they might be over-powered since there isn't respawns and even though they don't kill you, they will expose you and then get shot without having any kind of a chance to do anything about it.
Oh and if you think that I defend GL for the fact that I use them, no I don't, I use LMG's only just for the fun of it and I haven't completed SP yet for some reason so I can't even have them in secondary.

[Kamakaze Taco]

Unfortunately, the noob tube is just about required on most of these maps because of how badly they're designed. Market, for example, has an objective in that little sniper hut to the left of Bodark spawn. Now, there is NO way for Ghost to get in there and prevent them from taking that objective without some form of explosive to knock them off it. And then if Ghost happens to take it, there's no way for Bodark to reclaim it without more explosives.

[thesuzukimethod]

played against a team last night that was spamming the launcher on us. they lost 500-100, b/c they weren't engaged, working as a team, etc. just spamming nades.

yeah it sucks if you get stuck on a team that does this, but it's hardly an advantage on most maps. (the smaller ones where someone can sprint to the objective and spam them...yeah...it can be annoying, but we won pipeline against them too....

i hate playing with a team of (non-objective) camping snipers spamming tubes b/c it sucks, but i love playing against them...even a moderately organized random squad can usually win (and usually big) against these tactics. the only unfortunate thing, is it usually clears the lobby after 1 match. bye bye kiddies.

[Paragon Fury]

You have to understand - playing against organized teams gives a much different impression than playing pub games only. In pub games it might not be that bad - but with organized teams or organized teams vs. pubs, the HEDP is absolutely devastating and game changing, often making it so that the first team to use the HEDP is the one that wins.

[WombatT6]

You have to understand - playing against organized teams gives a much different impression than playing pub games only. In pub games it might not be that bad - but with organized teams or organized teams vs. pubs, the HEDP is absolutely devastating and game changing, often making it so that the first team to use the HEDP is the one that wins.

lol, Or when noobs use it and piss off good people, then good people start using it back and then the noob team ragequits.

[Kamakaze Taco]

Just 2 organized and decent players running with the noob tube can make life miserable for the other team. As soon as someone sits in cover all you hear is BOOMBOOM, or if the other team even touches the objective BOOMBOOM. There's nothing you can do about it, unless you also run 2 people with it and devote yourselves to killing the other tubers. It's a cheap and dirty tactic, but since Ubisoft wants to appeal to the COD kiddies, it's here to stay.

[HarleqES]

In his mind, the only way to win is to go sprinting toward the objective over and over until your corpses pile high enough to make a wall to provide you with some cover while you capture the objective.


Not quite. The only way to win is to capture and defend objectives.

With good map designs, defenses should be easy to set up by a fraction of of a team, difficult to maintain with a fraction of a team, easy to maintain with a majority of a team against a fraction of the enemey, and difficult to maintain with a majority of the team against a majority of the enemy. Key map zones should be contestable at all times. Skill and strategy win out. But with poor map design, you have key map zones that are either impossible to defend, or too easy.

Think about it... how many objective locations can you think of which are completely open to attack from 4 or more directions... or more to the point, how many have no cover options at all? By contrast, how many have only one viable point of entry for a given team. This kinda describes nearly every objective I can think of. For a game built around the give and take of objectives, this is extremely poor map design. No destructable, and hardly any penetratable cover. Virtually no means to discourage or defeat entrenchment. Sadly, where explosives might otherwise be a novelty and wasted equipment slots for most players, they're indespensable here largely to buck poor design. You can't really complain when it's the only thing that works.

[TacticalGRFS]

So, after finally getting to play some organized matches, (IE: Not public matches) with some organized teams, I've come to see why the HEDP needs to be nerfed.

It basically determines entire games. It ends Siege rounds before they even begin, has the ability to stop or interrupt any objective from across the map on many maps, even from spawn on some maps, requires little aiming skill and you basically have infinite ammo for it if there is an Ammo Box or Resupply around.

I think the easiest solution is probably that you should only get 1 HEDP round, and they can't be refilled by anything (except respawning).

However, I thought of a more radical solution, that gives another use to a lesser used piece of Equipment - the Jammer.

The idea is that the Jammer acts as sort an "Anti-Launcher" defense, that causes any launched explosive to immediately detonate as soon as it comes within the Jammer's radius, including rounds from the UCAV. While the EMP launcher would obviously destroy the Jammer and the Smoke launcher would be unaffected, it would give Engineers and teams a way to counter-act GL spam and usage without having to resort to it themselves. It would give the Jammer another use without overpowering it, and still let the HEDP be usable without having a counter.You'd have thought developers had learned underbarral explosives get abused; especially with access to an unlimited supply of them. To be honest, it's probably to cater to novice players in the interest of generating even more profits. Also, it's only going to become more abused as more players level up and unlock the attachment, and learn you can have an unlimited supply of them.

Your solution is definitely the most obvious solution and the 'anti-launcher' jammer idea is interesting.

[WombatT6]

You'd have thought developers had learned underbarral explosives get abused; especially with access to an unlimited supply of them. To be honest, it's probably to cater to novice players in the interest of generating even more profits. Also, it's only going to become more abused as more players level up and unlock the attachment, and learn you can have an unlimited supply of them.

Your solution is definitely the most obvious solution and the 'anti-launcher' jammer idea is interesting.


+1 Only 1 HEDP round per life, the end.