BLACKLIST doesn't have Variable Crouch Speed

[CamberGreber]

What the heck no Variable Crouch Speed in the E3 demo.

That's just unacceptable.
Makes it impossible to slow down for slower stealth or just to build tension.

I hope that just cause its an early build.

What do you guys think.
Any of you pissed off about this as much as I am?




EDIT: I am of course talking about ANALOGUE control not BINARY control.

[codenameeric]

I noticed it, too. Based on things like this, I cannot believe they really listened.

[sameer_monier]

Actually there is variable speed, you are just not looking hard enough.

[mattduck69]

[QUOTE=sameer_monier;8373472]Actually there is variable speed, you are just not looking hard enough.[/QUOTE

do you mean when sam does a fast paced crouch? cause that happens when u hold down A(or X). its part of that new killing in motion thing
But i really hope they get back the closer than ever movement from chaos theory, :cool:that was simply amazing and im sure they can do it with the new performance capture(think thats what its called ) i do find it pretty ridiculous that a game today doesnt have variable movement. majoridy of games these days have it e.g.assassins creed, hitman, even saints row!:mad: this is seriously one of my main things i want for this game (others- NVG, non lethal etc)
If variable speeds were in the game, i reckon it would make it much more stealthy :D

oh and also, when the devs say "sam fisher is the best agent in the world" all i think is "sam fisher is the best agent in the world....but..he..uh ..he cant slow down"

[sameer_monier]

I don't know about the X360 controller :D, I will recheck the whole variable speed thing though

BTW SCC had Closer Than Ever, but in CT it was more evident due to the camera position, while in SCC if you look close you will find Sam doing it, so yeah it is probably coming back too :D

Even in E3-Demo of SCB you find Sam always putting his left Arm towards his knife whenever he is close to an enemy, when he was in cover he did it, twice, so I believe it is there.

[mattduck69]

yes, i remember that in SCC. but id want it to be more like CT as in how hes whole movement changes and the closer you get to the enemy, the closer his hand gets to his knife. it was so awsome :D
btw i just love the tutorial in CT when sam is talking about closer than ever :( ahhh im gonna miss that voice...

[CamberGreber]

Actually there is variable speed, you are just not looking hard enough.

If you are referring to 2mins into the trailer where he enters the tent and changes speed for a sec.
He is just entering cover via press of the A button. The into cover animation is faster than the standard crouch and why he appears to crouch faster.

I also want to point out in the community interview they show an alternate route in which you can clearly see no evidence of variable speed when it comes to climbing the pipe, shimmying, or rappeling.
Which is confusing considering Beland worked on Vegas and it had tons of variable speed.

Like i said I hope this is just cause its an early build.

[CamberGreber]

yes, i remember that in SCC. but id want it to be more like CT as in how hes whole movement changes and the closer you get to the enemy, the closer his hand gets to his knife. it was so awsome.

I totally agree. That animation was defiantly my favorite for building tension in Chaos Theory.
In my opinion reaching for the knife isn't good enough.

Pleas UBI bring it back.

[KenTWOu]

If you are referring to 2mins into the trailer where he enters the tent and changes speed for a sec.
He is just entering cover via press of the A button. The into cover animation is faster than the standard crouch and why he appears to crouch faster.
You are totally wrong! There are a lot of different presentations with the same E3 playthrough and they are not 100% similar. Gamespot playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE#t=438s) (7:18) doesn't have acceleration at all when he enters the tent. Playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE#t=109s) (1:49) from Ubisoft youtube channel has acceleration inside the tent. So it's definitely variable speed.

Also check the speed inside the building! It's slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE&feature=player_detailpage#t=521s) (8:41) in the first video! And it's slightly faster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE&feature=player_detailpage#t=184s) (3:04) in the second video!

Variable speed confirmed!

[Andre202]

You are totally wrong! There are a lot of different presentations with the same E3 playthrough and they are not 100% similar. Gamespot playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE#t=438s) (7:18) doesn't have acceleration at all when he enters the tent. Playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE#t=109s) (1:49) from Ubisoft youtube channel has acceleration inside the tent. So it's definitely variable speed.

Also check the speed inside the building! It's slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE&feature=player_detailpage#t=521s) (8:41) in the gamespot video! And it's slightly faster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE&feature=player_detailpage#t=184s) (3:04) in Ubisoft video!

Variable speed confirmed!

Very nice!

[stewedyeti]

Variable speed? You mean when you don't move the stick all the way forward and the character moves slower? There are games that don't have this?

I feel as if I should point out that the reason he doesn't slow down in these demos pre-climb is because of the new climbing mechanic. To be completely honest I welcome any change that will remove the requirement of aligning Sam with a pole and pressing an action button to climb with wide open arms.

[michaelanjello]

You are totally wrong! There are a lot of different presentations with the same E3 playthrough and they are not 100% similar. Gamespot playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE#t=438s) (7:18) doesn't have acceleration at all when he enters the tent. Playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE#t=109s) (1:49) from Ubisoft youtube channel has acceleration inside the tent. So it's definitely variable speed.

Also check the speed inside the building! It's slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE&feature=player_detailpage#t=521s) (8:41) in the first video! And it's slightly faster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE&feature=player_detailpage#t=184s) (3:04) in the second video!

Variable speed confirmed!

Yah i noticed that too. in the faster one, Sam is more raised in the air and bobs more. in the slower stance, it seems more smooth. so it does look like variable speed.

[sameer_monier]

You are totally wrong! There are a lot of different presentations with the same E3 playthrough and they are not 100% similar. Gamespot playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE#t=438s) (7:18) doesn't have acceleration at all when he enters the tent. Playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE#t=109s) (1:49) from Ubisoft youtube channel has acceleration inside the tent. So it's definitely variable speed.

Also check the speed inside the building! It's slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE&feature=player_detailpage#t=521s) (8:41) in the first video! And it's slightly faster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE&feature=player_detailpage#t=184s) (3:04) in the second video!

Variable speed confirmed!

+1

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

The difference in speed again though could be what happens when you hold the A button (the killing in motion, fluid movement thing) while crouched. I don't think true variable speed (the kind that was dependent on how much you pushed the thumbstick forward, the one from the first 4 games) has been confirmed.

[mateus99]

yes, i remember that in SCC. but id want it to be more like CT as in how hes whole movement changes and the closer you get to the enemy, the closer his hand gets to his knife. it was so awsome :D
btw i just love the tutorial in CT when sam is talking about closer than ever :( ahhh im gonna miss that voice...

"when you are so close and can smell his aftershave" i will really miss michael ironside :( but i am willing to give eric a chance

there found the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FNlHVTZkOA

[CamberGreber]

You are totally wrong! There are a lot of different presentations with the same E3 playthrough and they are not 100% similar. Gamespot playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE#t=438s) (7:18) doesn't have acceleration at all when he enters the tent. Playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE#t=109s) (1:49) from Ubisoft youtube channel has acceleration inside the tent. So it's definitely variable speed.

Also check the speed inside the building! It's slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE&feature=player_detailpage#t=521s) (8:41) in the first video! And it's slightly faster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE&feature=player_detailpage#t=184s) (3:04) in the second video!

Variable speed confirmed!

Let me start by saying I hope to god your right.

In the first 2 video links you posted the difference IMO comes down to the fact that in the Gamespot Playthrough the player doesn't hit A till he is almost touching the tent wall.

The second set of videos on the other hand do show a difference in crouch speed although very suttle.
I am still concerened because if the slow(8:41) playthrough is the slowest it is still way too fast to build any kind of tension IMO.

Thanks for bringing to my attention that there are so many playthroughs. I am suprised that each one of these players choose to play the same action oriented approach though.

[DeafAtheist]

You are totally wrong! There are a lot of different presentations with the same E3 playthrough and they are not 100% similar. Gamespot playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE#t=438s) (7:18) doesn't have acceleration at all when he enters the tent. Playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE#t=109s) (1:49) from Ubisoft youtube channel has acceleration inside the tent. So it's definitely variable speed.

Also check the speed inside the building! It's slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE&feature=player_detailpage#t=521s) (8:41) in the first video! And it's slightly faster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhfD48VRGE&feature=player_detailpage#t=184s) (3:04) in the second video!

Variable speed confirmed!

Yeah I can see it. It may be on par with the variable speed of the Legacy games but it's there.

It's nice seeing different playthroughs of the E3 Demo, but it would really be nice to see a different path taken or different methods used even within this same demo. I get it that other parts of the game aren't ready for showing yet but apparently THIS particular demo can be done in different ways. I saw the interview where they show Sam rappelling down another way but it was kind of hard to see watching a camera pointed at a TV screen that went back and forth between the screen and the interview with Beland. I'd like to see an actual gameplay video of another playthrough of this demo to show some other options.

[Millhouse3rd]

What the heck no Variable Crouch Speed in the E3 demo.

That's just unacceptable.
Makes it impossible to slow down for slower stealth or just to build tension.

I hope that just cause its an early build.

What do you guys think.
Any of you pissed off about this as much as I am?

Here you are judging an as of yet unreleased game based on a few scarce minutes of gameplay. I hereby dub thee: Captain Premature ***********.

You all need to chill the **** out.

[Knot3D]

I'm still not sure about it. The speed up moments as noted in the video might be result of bigger or smaller proximity to the target NPC ; which would then mean the motion-blending between animations simply adjusts momentum to bridge between the initial stance and the actual kill animation.

For now... the only real evidence i see is default crouch speed + sprint button, until proven otherwise with better evidence.

[CamberGreber]

Here you are judging an as of yet unreleased game based on a few scarce minutes of gameplay. I hereby dub thee: Captain Premature ***********.

You all need to chill the **** out.

I was hopeing that my "I hope thats just cause its an early build." comment would be enough to prevent comments like this.

Also I haven't made any final judgement on anything I'm just highly concerned about a series I used to love.

[sameer_monier]

Yeah I can see it. It may be on par with the variable speed of the Legacy games but it's there.

It's nice seeing different playthroughs of the E3 Demo, but it would really be nice to see a different path taken or different methods used even within this same demo. I get it that other parts of the game aren't ready for showing yet but apparently THIS particular demo can be done in different ways. I saw the interview where they show Sam rappelling down another way but it was kind of hard to see watching a camera pointed at a TV screen that went back and forth between the screen and the interview with Beland. I'd like to see an actual gameplay video of another playthrough of this demo to show some other options.
you can see it clear in Gamespot demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE#t=438s), The repelling I mean.


As for Closer Than Ever like CT, that would be difficult to return due to different camera angel, animation, ..........etc

[CamberGreber]

I'm still not sure about it. The speed up moments as noted in the video might be result of bigger or smaller proximity to the target NPC ; which would then mean the motion-blending between animations simply adjusts momentum to bridge between the initial stance and the actual kill animation.

For now... the only real evidence i see is default crouch speed + sprint button, until proven otherwise with better evidence.

If it is initiated by pressing a Sprint Button then that would mean only binary speed changes which sucks IMO.

[CamberGreber]

As for Closer Than Ever like CT, that would be difficult to return due to different camera angel, animation, ..........etc

Could you please elaborate on this. I don't understand what you mean.

[KenTWOu]

I don't think true variable speed (the kind that was dependent on how much you pushed the thumbstick forward, the one from the first 4 games) has been confirmed.
Ok, I get it. At least two speeds while crouching were confirmed. (But I clearly see the third speed during executions and cover to cover movements)


I saw the interview where they show Sam rappelling down another way but it was kind of hard to see watching a camera pointed at a TV screen that went back and forth between the screen and the interview with Beland.
You should watch Gamespot playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE) till the end. It has that part and shows it very clearly (11:12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE&feature=player_detailpage#t=672s))./// ninja'd by sameer_monier :)

[sameer_monier]

Could you please elaborate on this. I don't understand what you mean.
In CT Sam always moved slowly, and his stand changed whenever getting close to an enemy, his hand reaching for his knife, .........etc, it was great TBH, but above all it was evident due to the camera being centered behind Sam, you were so close to Sam.

While in SCC/SCB the same concept still apply, but the movement animation is different, so Sam's stand actually change too, and he stretches his arm forward in SCC while to his Knife in SCB, but you need to look close, cause the camera is a little far from Sam compared to CT.

[DeafAtheist]

you can see it clear in Gamespot demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE#t=438s), The repelling I mean.


As for Closer Than Ever like CT, that would be difficult to return due to different camera angel, animation, ..........etc

Yeah I hadn't seen the Gamespot video before making my last post. I just watched it before coming back in here and I see it. It is a different approach than blowing open the front door. It's nice to have that option but I would prefer something more along the lines of something similar to the end of the Kobin's Mansion mission in Conviction where Sam could climb the ledges outside the window... pull a guard out the window, sneak in another window and dispatch enemies undetected before reaching the guy he's supposed to interrogate. That just feels stealthier to me than busting through a window or a door and dropping a handful of enemies with quick successive headshots. I don't mind having the option to burst in like that as well. Just would be nice to have an option for a stealthier approach.

[CamberGreber]

While in SCC/SCB the same concept still apply, but the movement animation is different, so Sam's stand actually change too, and he stretches his arm forward in SCC while to his Knife in SCB, but you need to look close, cause the camera is a little far from Sam compared to CT.

I don' see why the difference in Camera Distance would affect there ability to implement this animation.

[Knot3D]

In Legacy SC's Sam sped up exactly dictated by how far you pushed forward that analogue stick / rotated forward that mouse wheel. THAT is variable speed control in context of moving around.

Different speeds of take downs is basically a bit of a different story. Don't let this go down in an apples-oranges discussion people.

[sameer_monier]

I don' see why the difference in Camera Distance would affect there ability to implement this animation.
This is my opinion, but I believe cause when the camera was close having very detailed animation to every step in Closer than Ever was relevant, but here in SCB the camera is further, so it isn't that relevant to see Sam swaying from side to side.

[sameer_monier]

In Legacy SC's Sam sped up exactly dictated by how far you pushed forward that analogue stick / rotated forward that mouse wheel. THAT is variable speed control in context of moving around.

Different speeds of take downs is basically a bit of a different story. Don't let this go down in an apples-oranges discussion people.
Another thing I believe is due to the Camera & Design, again my own opinion that is, but in Legacy especially CT most of the time you were so close to enemies, slipping by them, moving so close behind them, ......etc, so calculating how speed-y you are was of most importance, cause you were a Stalker.

While in SCC/SCB the density and no. of guard doesn't enable you to flow them so close behind, instead you follow them from a far, speeding, slowing, ......etc, you are more of a Predator so moving fast is more Important.

Or so I believe.

[SpaceDesperado]

Sameer stop trying to defend Conviction so desperately, it was terrible in that game, simplified and rushed most likely because the developers thought 'it wouldn't matter and not many people care'. Knot3d, I hope you post regularly on this forum to keep the balance... we need more people like you.

[Om4zd]

Sameer stop trying to defend Conviction so desperately, it was terrible in that game, simplified and rushed most likely because the developers thought 'it wouldn't matter and not many people care'. Knot3d, I hope you post regularly on this forum to keep the balance... we need more people like you.

It's anyones right to defend what they want :D Don't rise to a troller man.

[sameer_monier]

Sameer stop trying to defend Conviction so desperately, it was terrible in that game, simplified and rushed most likely because the developers thought 'it wouldn't matter and not many people care'. Knot3d, I hope you post regularly on this forum to keep the balance... we need more people like you.
Why would I !!!, I like to stand by my Conviction :P

Just cause you didn't like SCC doesn't mean no one else did, I LOVED the hell out of SCC (and others did too, and yup they were also hardcore SC fans), I still play it and enjoy it to this day, a couple of days ago I was actually hitting the SP Campaign, a week ago I was doing some D-Ops, so yeah I like it, and I am entitled to my opinion.

Though I like to point out that I know what SCC did wrong, and I see some of it's mistakes and where it could be better, as for my previous comment it was my opinion and what I think the philosophy behind the design was.

[Andre202]

I actually think there isn't any real reason not to include the feature. The variable speed made sure you have a deep Sound system. Otherwise it would be just boundary and again a trial&error approach instead of having a dynamic system which supports multiple reactions of the NPC! The variable speed wasn't necessarily there to be able to get very personal, it was there to reflect a real hunter. A hunter would move fast at first but then get slower and slower when getting near to his prey. So for a Panther it makes perfect sense to have variable speed. It's supports the approach of a predator. They will never move at one speed, they will change their speed dynamically to fit the situation he is in and to reflect the bahaviour of his prey! So really, the Closer-then-Ever even supported this predator feeling even more because Sam reacted to the behaviour of the NPCs dynamically! I wouldn't get it if it's still not in there.

[sameer_monier]

I actually think there isn't any real reason not to include the feature. The variable speed made sure you have a deep Sound system. Otherwise it would be just boundary and again a trial&error approach instead of having a dynamic system which supports multiple reactions of the NPC! The variable speed wasn't necessarily there to be able to get very personal, it was there to reflect a real hunter. A hunter would move fast at first but then get slower and slower when getting near to his prey. So for a Panther it makes perfect sense to have variable speed. It's supports the approach of a predator. They will never move at one speed, they will change their speed dynamically to fit the situation he is in and to reflect the bahaviour of his prey! So really, the Closer-then-Ever even supported this predator feeling even more because Sam reacted to the behaviour of the NPCs dynamically! I wouldn't get it if it's still not in there.
I wasn't saying I don't want it, I said it will be different (which seems to be the case), I wouldn't mind a deep variable speed system with deep sound system, I would actually love that, well it be there I don't know.

As for Panthers, they indeed move slowly but relatively fast too, when they attack and the prey start running away, they start speeding up really fast, circling around and then jumping attacking. (I am basing all this theory on what I watched when I was 8 years old, Leopards) :D

TBH I love OTS camera, though I took a liking to SCC style of camera, wither they bring back the CTE & Variable Speed in full power remain to be seen.

[CamberGreber]

This is my opinion, but I believe cause when the camera was close having very detailed animation to every step in Closer than Ever was relevant, but here in SCB the camera is further, so it isn't that relevant to see Sam swaying from side to side.

Unless you played CT on PC you where playing at 640x480i.

Blacklist will most likely be 3X that resolution. That alone should mean you will easily be able to tell the difference.
Not too mention many of us bought large HDTVs when this console generation started.

And thats just the consoles PC players will be playing in 1080p+.

[CamberGreber]

i actually think there isn't any real reason not to include the feature. The variable speed made sure you have a deep sound system. Otherwise it would be just boundary and again a trial&error approach instead of having a dynamic system which supports multiple reactions of the npc! The variable speed wasn't necessarily there to be able to get very personal, it was there to reflect a real hunter. A hunter would move fast at first but then get slower and slower when getting near to his prey. So for a panther it makes perfect sense to have variable speed. It's supports the approach of a predator. They will never move at one speed, they will change their speed dynamically to fit the situation he is in and to reflect the bahaviour of his prey! So really, the closer-then-ever even supported this predator feeling even more because sam reacted to the behaviour of the npcs dynamically! I wouldn't get it if it's still not in there.

well said

[Jazz117Volkov]

Soon as I heard about the hold 'A' sprint thingy, I was a tad worried about how variable speed would play out.
But from what I can tell, I think we have at least two speeds while both crouching and standing, and then an extra/faster one when holding 'A'
It's not so important when standing, but I'd really like an extra slow one when crouching. The demo hints at a slower speed for like a fraction of a second, but it was pretty vague.

Fingers crossed.

@ Andre
Yeah, I totally agree man.
It'd be nucking futs to not include it this time 'round.

I also enjoy the freedom of being able to move at my own pace, you know?
Its awesome that the game let's us go a bazillion mph over obstacles and 'through' people even, but the ghost facet of the gameplay will not be able to shine (for me) if I can't mosey along if I feel like it.

[sameer_monier]

Unless you played CT on PC you where playing at 640x480i.

Blacklist will most likely be 3X that resolution. That alone should mean you will easily be able to tell the difference.
Not too mention many of us bought large HDTVs when this console generation started.

And thats just the consoles PC players will be playing in 1080p+.

Actually I did play CT on PC, since from the reviews the PS2 version was the worst version ever, no wonder SC titles don't sell well on PS, they are poorly ported