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bringbackCT
06-07-2012, 02:20 PM
Can we focus more on multiplayer here? I want some assurance that multiplayer will be back to its original form. I think most will agree that Double Agent and Conviction had horrible multiplayer. Don't forget your roots, Ubisoft. This franchise was built on stealth and a highly competitive multiplayer Spy vs Merc mode where skill and patience were required.

I would still be playing Chaos Theory multiplayer on Xbox if there servers were still up.

stewedyeti
06-07-2012, 02:53 PM
Man, I have such good memories of playing PT and CT multiplayer. Probably the only console game besides Halo that I care about the multiplayer in (yeah, yeah).

I'm crossing my fingers as hard as I possibly can that they will at least include traditional Spy vs Mercs. They claim they're bringing it back but if they're bringing it back Double Agent-style they can shove it.

harbi-117
06-07-2012, 02:56 PM
Can we focus more on multiplayer here? I want some assurance that multiplayer will be back to its original form. I think most will agree that Double Agent and Conviction had horrible multiplayer.
First, I disagree, Double Agent (X360) is the SvM multiplayer of choice for me.

Second, I get the feeling it's going back to the roots because during a Gamespot interview, you can tell that Max wanted to say more about SvM
but couldn't. He said "Spies versus Mercs is back... As a spy, you're in third person" but then the PR guy in him stopped him from saying more

here's the link for that interview. I skipped it to 4:04 for you :) (Click Me) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhxtDnvSpE&feature=plcp#t=4m04s)

stewedyeti
06-07-2012, 03:16 PM
I don't understand press-related silence like that. What are they worried is going to happen? Someone is going to steal their ideas?

If it hasn't been done in the seven years since CT came out I think they'll be okay.

qJohnnyppp
06-07-2012, 03:22 PM
IF this game is made by Ubisoft Annecy I'm pretty confident it's going to be good. They showed they still got it in Assassin's Creed multiplayer

newhenpal
06-07-2012, 04:42 PM
It probably won't be good if they don't get another developer to make it. That's not a gibe against Ubisoft Toronto so much as it is an acknowledgement that many developers simply can't juggle single-player and adversarial multiplayer. Unless they've got a lot of people at Toronto working on this, they're going to need help.

reddragonhrcro
06-07-2012, 04:43 PM
Also preffer the DA version of SvM,it was rather simple to get into it.

RKHarrsion
06-07-2012, 05:25 PM
The DA SvM worked so well because it was a completely different game to single player! I hope there going to do exactly the same and produce and well balanced and competitive multiplayer in Blacklist.

The original SvM to this day is still better then most games out there so please Ubi don't break what isn't broken.

Also I was sick of people wanting to be spies then quitting the second they lost all there life's within 2min! Can you implement a 2 round game to win forcing people to play both sides and the full game (both rounds) to receive rewards, etc?

stewedyeti
06-07-2012, 05:43 PM
Also I was sick of people wanting to be spies then quitting the second they lost all there life's within 2min! Can you implement a 2 round game to win forcing people to play both sides and the full game (both rounds) to receive rewards, etc?

Haha **** I remember that. Pissed me off so much.

Shadow-Ops-
06-07-2012, 05:46 PM
I made a new account on here since this game was announced. As a long time Spliter Cell fan and a long time SvM player, I can truly say I am excited but just hoping that the multiplayer is like CT and PT. I didn't mind DA, just was a little too easy, but I still played in the tournament for it. As long is it isn't like conviction and it resembles what I grew up playing I'll be happy.

@RKHarrison - no one can be forced to stay. And if you played ranked, usually there was a thing called "Revenge" where right after the game, you switch sides automatically without going to lobby. Usually you lost points too if you quit early. I had accounts with a level 6, level 5, two level 4s, and a few level 3s. If I quit or lost two a level 2 while I was playing my level 6 account, I lost A LOT of points and took more than a few games to get those points back. So it's not like quitting goes unpunished and there is a way to switch teams automatically after a round (well there used to be.)

michaelanjello
06-07-2012, 05:51 PM
I see everyone excited for Spy vs. Merc. But i am still concerned for multiple things. These features included would probably break the game.

1. Mercs were third person.
2. The inclusion of Mark and Execute.
3. Mercs had allied AI npc's on their side. ( mark and execute would most likely be included but you couldnt mark the mercs)

This highly concerns me because It would be very shallow and not much tactics involved.

bringbackCT
06-07-2012, 05:53 PM
DA multiplayer completely killed all the things that made the previous versions great. 3v3 was a terrible idea, people stopped working together. You had all these people that only wanted to run around like a super hero spy ignoring how the game was supposed to be played. It turned into a run and gun first person shooter. Who thought hacking a computer from 50ft away looking at your wrist was a good idea? There were hints for everything lit up by a glowing characters (jump here, climb this) because you're too dumb to figure it out. DA lacks the depth that Chaos Theory created.

This game wasn't meant to be easy to master. If they want to ease the learning curve I have no problem, but do it in the proper way. Part of the problem with Chaos Theory was the ranking system and matchmaking that often put beginners against pros. This was probably discouraging for newcomers. Ubisoft should create a better matchmaking system. Maybe start off players with only a few gadgets, etc. and only match players of the same level together. Let the new players learn little by little before allowing them to play against the higher ranks.

Shadow-Ops-
06-07-2012, 06:25 PM
If there is mark and execute in MP it will be a no buy for me. Period.

Oh My Godmode
06-07-2012, 06:31 PM
I don't want a "simple" mp experience. I want Chaos Theory back.

stewedyeti
06-07-2012, 07:36 PM
If there is mark and execute in MP it will be a no buy for me. Period.

Oh good lord, you hit that nail on the head. Mark and Execute is totally not for a multiplayer environment. At least assuming they brought traditional SvM back then the only thing you could M&E would be with non-lethal weapons, haha.

DrNegative
06-07-2012, 10:05 PM
Count me as one who wants to see the SvM gameplay come back to its roots from PT and CT. It was perfect in my opinion, though I will admit it had a steep learning curve which could overwhelm newer players. Classic SvM with a dedicated partner was some of the most intense white-knuckle multiplayer gaming I have ever experienced.

Oh My Godmode
06-08-2012, 02:14 AM
Count me as one who wants to see the SvM gameplay come back to its roots from PT and CT. It was perfect in my opinion, though I will admit it had a steep learning curve which could overwhelm newer players. Classic SvM with a dedicated partner was some of the most intense white-knuckle multiplayer gaming I have ever experienced.


The entirety of the game, I only had like 2 or 3 partners. We played together all the time. One of them has become a very good real life friend that I eventually got to meet. His GT is/was Elite Spartan. The other partner was Mr Poor.

DrNegative
06-08-2012, 04:10 AM
The entirety of the game, I only had like 2 or 3 partners. We played together all the time. One of them has become a very good real life friend that I eventually got to meet. His GT is/was Elite Spartan. The other partner was Mr Poor. Wow small world. I have played against both of them, very good players. I believe Mr Poor was usually with TimF when I played him. My partner was my bro IRL Mr Positive. Poor was probably the stealthiest spy I have ever played against.

KevinPDZ0916
06-08-2012, 04:26 AM
I had posted a thread today where I found out about an xbox marketplace description of the game saying that online multiplayer was 2-10 players.

Like I said in the topic, unless it was a placeholder for now, i wonder if a 5 spies vs. 5 mercenaries match has any truth to it.

I really like the PT and CT multi the best. There was a huge learning curve for newcomers, but that wasn't a bad thing in my opinion. I liked using all the different gadgets and I liked the tension of hiding in the darkness while the merc searched for you. But even though I did not like DA's SVM as much as PT, CT, I still thought it had some good improvements that could have been implemented to the classic SVM.

+ 3 vs. 3 (if you had one teammate who sucked, you were pretty much screwed, so the extra buddy came in handy.)
+ Rappel for the Mercs to reach the spies quicker
+ The speed of the spies was awesome
+ The drones brought new tension and scares for the spies who hid in the vents
+ The spy escape moves
+ Different Costumes

I have a feeling that Black List's SVM will be a combination of the single player gameplay and the classic gameplay. The speed of the spies and mercs will probably be similar to DA since that would resemble Sam's speed in the single player. I just hope it does not turn out to be mostly a frag fest deathmatch. They may even include the cover system for the spies.

The reason spies vs. mercs was not in conviction was due to the new gameplay direction and they did not know how to implement the game mode properly. So either this means that, using the new gameplay, they found a way to make it work, or they will stick to the roots and give us CT SVM, or combine the classic and modern gameplay.
I really hope they start talking about it soon since spring 2013 really isn't that far away when you think about it.

michaelanjello
06-08-2012, 04:34 AM
I had posted a thread today where I found out about an xbox marketplace description of the game saying that online multiplayer was 2-10 players.


Like I said in the topic, unless it was a placeholder for now, i wonder if a 5 spies vs. 5 mercenaries match has any truth to it.

I really like the PT and CT multi the best. There was a huge learning curve for newcomers, but that wasn't a bad thing in my opinion. I liked using all the different gadgets and I liked the tension of hiding in the darkness while the merc searched for you. But even though I did not like DA's SVM as much as PT, CT, I still thought it had some good improvements that could have been implemented to the classic SVM.

+ 3 vs. 3 (if you had one teammate who sucked, you were pretty much screwed, so the extra buddy came in handy.)
+ Rappel for the Mercs to reach the spies quicker
+ The speed of the spies was awesome
+ The drones brought new tension and scares for the spies who hid in the vents
+ The spy escape moves
+ Different Costumes

I have a feeling that Black List's SVM will be a combination of the single player gameplay and the classic gameplay. The speed of the spies and mercs will probably be similar to DA since that would resemble Sam's speed in the single player. I just hope it does not turn out to be mostly a frag fest deathmatch. They may even include the cover system for the spies.

The reason spies vs. mercs was not in conviction was due to the new gameplay direction and they did not know how to implement the game mode properly. So either this means that, using the new gameplay, they found a way to make it work, or they will stick to the roots and give us CT SVM, or combine the classic and modern gameplay.
I really hope they start talking about it soon since spring 2013 really isn't that far away when you think about it.

Just for goodness sake please no mark and execute. That will be complete bogus. The spies should not be more accurate and killing than the mercs. I mean 5 v 5 would be still better than having mark and execute.

Of topic a bit, but did anyone notice whether there is variable speed in the gameplay trailer. It still seems like 2 speeds.

KevinPDZ0916
06-08-2012, 04:38 AM
I cannot even fathom how they would implement mark and execute in SVM unless it was purely used for a deathmatch gametype only, and if it was granted only after three stealthy executions or something.

They need to bring back the hacking with the computers and the extraction and the planting explosive objectives. I think those would work really well even with Black List's fast paced gameplay. It would still be very intense.

foamybrew
06-08-2012, 04:47 AM
I have complete faith in Ubisoft's ability to screw it up. ;)

stewedyeti
06-08-2012, 05:18 AM
I reckon if they don't bring back the good CT version of SvM we could always play this whenever it's finally released, haha.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxt4eLkE8vs

michaelanjello
06-08-2012, 06:38 AM
Has there ever been lockpicking in Spy v Merc? Because I really want lockpicking back for some reason. It was really awesome

stewedyeti
06-08-2012, 08:07 AM
Has there ever been lockpicking in Spy v Merc? Because I really want lockpicking back for some reason. It was really awesome

I don't recall that feature ever being included but I could be wrong. I'm not totally sure if it would be a good idea, either, because you'd basically be a sitting duck and hacking already forced plenty of that haha

reddragonhrcro
06-08-2012, 01:16 PM
Haha **** I remember that. Pissed me off so much.

You should see that on RE5 versus mode,cant get trophies cos of that loosers that quit as soon as they strat t loose,as soon as they quit the game ends due missing players.Makes me rage quit as it ainīt easy to win in this especialy with such noobs.

Well 5 vs 5 would mean one thing,bigger maps.

Oh My Godmode
06-08-2012, 01:27 PM
Wow small world. I have played against both of them, very good players. I believe Mr Poor was usually with TimF when I played him. My partner was my bro IRL Mr Positive. Poor was probably the stealthiest spy I have ever played against.

Poor and Tim played together for a long time. Then poor left for the military. When he came back, we played together. They went undefeated in 3 seasons on Gamebattles.

NoBirdSing
06-08-2012, 05:18 PM
Poor and Tim played together for a long time. Then poor left for the military. When he came back, we played together. They went undefeated in 3 seasons on Gamebattles.

What was your gamertag, BStark?

CoolBrinkman
06-08-2012, 05:24 PM
I reckon if they don't bring back the good CT version of SvM we could always play this whenever it's finally released, haha.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxt4eLkE8vs

Don't worry, that thing isn't EVER coming out! They've spent way too much time for so little progress; bunch of high schoolers with 3D modeling software.

Also, think about how much fun being a merc will be now that we have headphones for our systems. Now we can hear every spy footstep!

ReConNinJa.CF
06-08-2012, 06:23 PM
Don't worry, that thing isn't EVER coming out! They've spent way too much time for so little progress; bunch of high schoolers with 3D modeling software.

Also, think about how much fun being a merc will be now that we have headphones for our systems. Now we can hear every spy footstep!

Your very wrong on that note jordan, they are actually alot of experienced people in the team, some who are actually involved with the game industry already and some with teaching degrees / college / uni education.

They recently doubled their programming team and are at 70 % progress, Yes its a long wait but in the end it will be worth it.

Oh My Godmode
06-08-2012, 06:51 PM
What was your gamertag, BStark?


Godmode.

My current tag is Oh My Godmode
Its always been some iteration of Godmode.

BlindHouse
06-08-2012, 07:25 PM
I wonder how they're going to handle the overall feel of the spies' movements. Will the spies move like Sam does in the single player? Or will they have a whole different feel like they did in Double Agent's multiplayer? I suspect the former, but it's still something I'm curious about.

Oh My Godmode
06-08-2012, 07:54 PM
Id be ok with the spies having the double agent movement. At least the escape moves. But I really want the overall gameplay to resemble Chaos Theory. Sticky cams, flash bangs, smokes, chaff, heart beat at least. Smg, assault rifle, gas mask, motion vision, emf vision, frags, mines, spy trackers, backpack for Mercs.

If SvM had that, I don't think I could give ubisoft my money fast enough.

reddragonhrcro
06-08-2012, 08:08 PM
What i would like to see is loads of custimozation options.I eventualy like that as thats the way how to show yourself off amongst the players so that everyone has an unique and remarkable personal apearance.

nukelukespuke34
06-08-2012, 09:55 PM
But not too unique, with people running around in pink stealth suits and all. That would be bad.

reddragonhrcro
06-08-2012, 10:07 PM
But not too unique, with people running around in pink stealth suits and all. That would be bad.

Totaly that would be rather stupid(tought for a female spy hm...?),that just now reminds me of one of the viral suit for DS2 multiplayer which is pink,i mean wtf in a horror game?

But still there should be pleanty of choices given so that everyone can make themselve something they would be pleased with.Stuff like NVG model,NVG light color,suit(shapes, layer design,colors,custom crafting logos and ect),hair(eventualy optional if it isnīt a fully covered head,lot of choices for different personal styles),accessories...

Eventualy so much stuff that you could create something awesome like for example to create a spy that looks like Naked Snake in his sneaking suit from MPO lol.

Ofcourse there should be give pre created unique suits which eventualy are canon in a matter of sense.(SCCT MP,SCDA,SCC,...)

Still even if that option is given i doubt that there would be people actualy wearing pink,except for girls or well you know...

Oh My Godmode
06-08-2012, 11:18 PM
You say eventually a lot.

reddragonhrcro
06-09-2012, 12:33 AM
You say eventually a lot.

LOL for some reason i have that habit lately.

KevinPDZ0916
06-09-2012, 03:32 AM
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Tom-Clancys-Splinter-Cell-Blacklist/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802555308b6

This is the page I was talking about with the 2-10 online multiplayer stuff.

When you open the page, just hit "overview" and then press the arrow to 2 of 2 to see the information.

I can't even imagine how much bigger these 5 vs 5 maps would be compared to even DA's large SVM maps. This must mean that fluid agile spies and mercs must be returning because if they were slower like CT and PT spies, then it would not make sense on such large maps.

michaelanjello
06-09-2012, 04:43 AM
I jst hope it wont be a chaotic shooter

KevinPDZ0916
06-09-2012, 05:01 AM
http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/splinter_cell_blacklist/news/ubisoft_montreal_and_shanghai_also_working_on_spli nter_cell_blacklist.html

This news is exciting indeed. It seems that Ubisoft Montreal is working underneath Toronto to handle the "multiplayer modes", which is now SVM! (:

stewedyeti
06-09-2012, 06:21 AM
Don't worry, that thing isn't EVER coming out! They've spent way too much time for so little progress; bunch of high schoolers with 3D modeling software.

If some high school students managed to model, texture, animate and program various gameplay elements all using only modeling software I'd be pretty impressed... I also think you may be under the impression that game development, especially with a small team of hobbyists, is simple in any way. It's not.


Also, think about how much fun being a merc will be now that we have headphones for our systems. Now we can hear every spy footstep!

They have made TV headphones for at least 20 years.

Oh My Godmode
06-09-2012, 12:33 PM
I used 5.1 surround sound headphones with Chaps Theory.


I could hear the Mercs reload from across the map and spies walking in ventilation ducts.

Maher21
06-09-2012, 02:54 PM
And PLEASE no proxy detector. Or if you do have it, make it an equipment item that has a limited charge. That dumb thing sucked all the tension out of SvsM in DA.

legacyzero
06-09-2012, 03:57 PM
And PLEASE no proxy detector. Or if you do have it, make it an equipment item that has a limited charge. That dumb thing sucked all the tension out of SvsM in DA.

I really think that it should be about choice. Hosted matches should be customizable by the host. I for one preferred SCDA over CT for various reasons. Map design was better, distance hacking was superior to hacking right at the terminal, and spies being as nimble as they were made escaping fun and challenging.

I also really loved that fact that Spies had no offensive weapons in SCDA. Shockers in CT were just plain annoying. Just my opinion though.

I think the main reason why I like SCDA over CT is I was too late in playing it (about 3or 4 years after release) and was too new to play it. However, I'm AMAZING at SCDA since I'd been playing it since day 1.

DONT SCREW THIS UP UBI! This is simply the best multiplayer period. I need a break from horrible multiplyer games like COD and Battlefield and need a multiplayer more REAL.

Oh My Godmode
06-09-2012, 05:49 PM
I really think that it should be about choice. Hosted matches should be customizable by the host. I for one preferred SCDA over CT for various reasons. Map design was better, distance hacking was superior to hacking right at the terminal, and spies being as nimble as they were made escaping fun and challenging.

I also really loved that fact that Spies had no offensive weapons in SCDA. Shockers in CT were just plain annoying. Just my opinion though.

I think the main reason why I like SCDA over CT is I was too late in playing it (about 3or 4 years after release) and was too new to play it. However, I'm AMAZING at SCDA since I'd been playing it since day 1.

DONT SCREW THIS UP UBI! This is simply the best multiplayer period. I need a break from horrible multiplyer games like COD and Battlefield and need a multiplayer more REAL.


At least you are honest about being bad at CT lol.

I would love to see a nice mixture.

TRAJEKTURY
06-09-2012, 05:52 PM
As far as spy vs. merc, please have parties, and also in public rooms, force swap sides. To many players refuse to play as mercs.

CoolBrinkman
06-09-2012, 06:26 PM
If some high school students managed to model, texture, animate and program various gameplay elements all using only modeling software I'd be pretty impressed... I also think you may be under the impression that game development, especially with a small team of hobbyists, is simple in any way. It's not.



They have made TV headphones for at least 20 years.

The reality of it is, is that they've made less progress than a team of of less people in less amount of time. No, game development isn't simple, but for the progress they've made for a design so simple...they've practically been driving in reverse. The problem is that they aren't fully engaged in their work, some of them are working their jobs during the week and then starting on the game during the weekend. I've seen more breaks and vacations taken by them than I have from my own family, and that isn't dedication to your product.

BLa5terNZ
06-09-2012, 06:29 PM
I really hope it will be DA style, but with a few CT elemtents brought into it, so more gadgets etc. I have been playing DA multiplayer since it came out, and really love it, can't stop playing it. I know every single map off by heart including every escape route. Its just awesome. However I do feel the mercs are a little too powerfull, very rarely when two pro teams are against each other, do the spies win. Only thing they needed to change was the prox sensor. That just made it way too easy, should have been changed to motion sensor or a a prox sensor with say like an activation lasting 10 seconds and and a recharge of 20 seconds or so. I like the distance hacking with the 3 levels of speed, that added dynamic to it, as you had to decide which approach to take, the gung ho 3 bar or the long winded but a lot safer 1 bar.


I decided to play CT after having played DA for a while since every said it was good. I didn't like it as much as DA though. The large amounts of gadgets were cool, and the mines etc, but the spies having shock guns just seemed to ruin it, the hacking at the computer was rather dull as well, no different ways to approach it. Spies movement felt really slow as well, but I did like the extra stealth aspect with there being no proxy sensor.


I think a combo of the best parts of the two games could make for an awesome new SvM experience. The distance hacking and speed of DA, but the versatility and number of gadgets in CT.

reddragonhrcro
06-09-2012, 06:41 PM
I pretty much got to say that i got frustrated with CT SvM(PC) due the big amount of hackes playing it and for some reason the flaslight of my Merc doesnīt work so i have to use a flare to see.But yeah there were awesome moments when there were no hackers just fair play.

stewedyeti
06-09-2012, 07:54 PM
The reality of it is, is that they've made less progress than a team of of less people in less amount of time. No, game development isn't simple, but for the progress they've made for a design so simple...they've practically been driving in reverse. The problem is that they aren't fully engaged in their work, some of them are working their jobs during the week and then starting on the game during the weekend. I've seen more breaks and vacations taken by them than I have from my own family, and that isn't dedication to your product.

Have you ever worked on something for free in your entirely spare time? Enthusiasm is a quick thing to lose. I know first-hand because I have abandoned almost 90% of the development projects I have started or been apart of, haha.

To me it's one of those things that I am better off if I try to get it done as fast as possible. Obviously I leave in room to improve the finished product but if I can't complete something from start to finish in a relatively short amount of time my interest plummets exponentially over a very small amount of time. :P

I guess it's good I'm not helping them with that project... Although I think in this case I could see it to completion just on my love for SC:CT Spy vs. Mercs alone. Too much nostalgia there for me to throw away the chance to recreate it.

legacyzero
06-09-2012, 10:46 PM
At least you are honest about being bad at CT lol.

I would love to see a nice mixture.
I think I could have been great. Just too late to the game, and the veterans who had been playing it for years, took me to school LOL!

It was the revers for SCDA. Noobies didn't stand a chance against me because I played it so much.

IHATEKEVINBRAND
06-10-2012, 05:09 AM
As soon as I heard Blacklist is bringing SvM back I had the biggest smile across my face. I even dug out my old copy of PT and CT and started playing around by myself. Just reliving the awesome fun times I had with the game. I'm praying that the new SvM will have the PT/CT feel, no DA. DA was..too different for my liking.

I just downloaded the Multiplayer demo since my disc is dead, and boy what a mess that game is compared to the others. Don't get me wrong it's fun, but where the hell is the stealth? I remember playing CT years back and as a Merc, almost being freaked out when a Spy ran by me, or shot at me. It was such an amazing experience.

Hell, it was the only game that made me stop playing Halo 2. Regardless, the physics, maps, movement, gadgets and overall skill gap are what made that game so **** unique, I still to this day have not played a game so original and new in terms of ideas for multiplayer. Regardless, the CT feel is the way to go in my opinion. Of course the game has to evolve, just don't let it mutate into some horrible Run and Gun game. Oh, and please for the love of god bring back actual hacking, and the stun gun. So much good can come of this. I have faith.

CoolBrinkman
06-10-2012, 06:31 AM
Have you ever worked on something for free in your entirely spare time? Enthusiasm is a quick thing to lose. I know first-hand because I have abandoned almost 90% of the development projects I have started or been apart of, haha.

To me it's one of those things that I am better off if I try to get it done as fast as possible. Obviously I leave in room to improve the finished product but if I can't complete something from start to finish in a relatively short amount of time my interest plummets exponentially over a very small amount of time. :P

I guess it's good I'm not helping them with that project... Although I think in this case I could see it to completion just on my love for SC:CT Spy vs. Mercs alone. Too much nostalgia there for me to throw away the chance to recreate it.

Yeah no joke man, I guess I just imagine their work being as simple as something like the Unity game engine. My friends and I always mess around and make projects in it but like you say, we lose interest after a while. The magic behind video games for me is the fun of playing them, not designing them I guess haha. :p

CPandolfo
06-10-2012, 06:57 AM
Logging in just to drop some thoughts on my excitement for Spy Vs Merc. My long time best friend and I grew up playing PT and CT and both agree it was our most incredible video game experiences ever. When we found out this game would showcase the return for the feature since DA we were unbelievably excited. We both agree that the new Spy vs Merc should combine what was great from the old games and what was successful from DA.

-The ATMOSPHERE of the maps I felt was crucial. In DA the maps were too bright at times, despite how many lights you hacked. I miss those legitimate unrealistically dark shadows that you could literally just sit in and the only way possible you'd be seen is if somehow the Mercs flashlights were directly on you. In general...there was a very magical feeling I experienced playing just about every map in the first two games. I have so many memories of each map and their uniqueness. I want those dark, mysterious maps back. My buddy and I always talk about The Hospital from PT and then the Factory from CT...As much as I liked a few maps from DA like the Mansion and Slaughterhouse (easy favorite), I felt the maps were too easy for the Mercs to manage and the nostalgic feeling I would get from the old environments was just gone. I don't know if that's something actually possible to recreate unfortunately. Hopeful wishing.

-MORE GADGETS. I'm not asking for a bucket load of choices but a little bit more than what DA offered.

-REMOVE PROX CENSOR FROM MERCS! This nearly ruined DA's spy vs merc to me. As much as it felt that they wanted to force stealth onto the spies...if you were sitting still and waiting patiently for Merc's to vanish..they still KNEW you were around because of this ridiculous censor. It totally removed that great and mysterious and nerve racking feeling of hiding in the shadows or in a vent near by a Merc and him having literally no idea if you were around. Sure, it could backfire on Merc's and just the thought that a spy was very near, maybe right under or above you was cool, but it's not as satisfying as the Spy himself.

-Keep the SPEED and agility of the Spies in DA. This was definitely the best thing about DA's Spy vs Merc to me. Once the information was hacked, it was fun sprinting back to the base, diving and flipping your way to safety. Quick escapes were thrilling.

That's pretty much all I ask for. As much as I was bummed about a lot of things from DA's Spy vs Merc, my friend and I still played it very, very often and enjoyed it. The experiences we had from PT and CT are still the greatest ever, and we find ourselves talking about them all the time. I miss that and hope somehow this new version of Spy vs Merc creates new and incredible memories.

RKHarrsion
06-10-2012, 07:37 AM
A lot of people keep bringing up the issue of merc's having the prox sensor in DA but can you imagine how hard it would of been for them if they had to search all over with the flash light for a spy that could literally be anywhere and also be weary of having there neck snapped. They wouldn't of stood a chance with the speed spies could navigate the map and personally in my eyes it kinda reenforced the security for merc's that let them activity search around instead of been sat in a corner waiting for them to show. I think the setup for DA was clear from the multiplayer trailer Spies had better run Merc's are there to kill you. DA was a game you could turn on and play without needing a group/team to have a good chance of clearing the first section like in CT.

Oh My Godmode
06-10-2012, 05:07 PM
Logging in just to drop some thoughts on my excitement for Spy Vs Merc. My long time best friend and I grew up playing PT and CT and both agree it was our most incredible video game experiences ever. When we found out this game would showcase the return for the feature since DA we were unbelievably excited. We both agree that the new Spy vs Merc should combine what was great from the old games and what was successful from DA.

-The ATMOSPHERE of the maps I felt was crucial. In DA the maps were too bright at times, despite how many lights you hacked. I miss those legitimate unrealistically dark shadows that you could literally just sit in and the only way possible you'd be seen is if somehow the Mercs flashlights were directly on you. In general...there was a very magical feeling I experienced playing just about every map in the first two games. I have so many memories of each map and their uniqueness. I want those dark, mysterious maps back. My buddy and I always talk about The Hospital from PT and then the Factory from CT...As much as I liked a few maps from DA like the Mansion and Slaughterhouse (easy favorite), I felt the maps were too easy for the Mercs to manage and the nostalgic feeling I would get from the old environments was just gone. I don't know if that's something actually possible to recreate unfortunately. Hopeful wishing.

-MORE GADGETS. I'm not asking for a bucket load of choices but a little bit more than what DA offered.

-REMOVE PROX CENSOR FROM MERCS! This nearly ruined DA's spy vs merc to me. As much as it felt that they wanted to force stealth onto the spies...if you were sitting still and waiting patiently for Merc's to vanish..they still KNEW you were around because of this ridiculous censor. It totally removed that great and mysterious and nerve racking feeling of hiding in the shadows or in a vent near by a Merc and him having literally no idea if you were around. Sure, it could backfire on Merc's and just the thought that a spy was very near, maybe right under or above you was cool, but it's not as satisfying as the Spy himself.

-Keep the SPEED and agility of the Spies in DA. This was definitely the best thing about DA's Spy vs Merc to me. Once the information was hacked, it was fun sprinting back to the base, diving and flipping your way to safety. Quick escapes were thrilling.

That's pretty much all I ask for. As much as I was bummed about a lot of things from DA's Spy vs Merc, my friend and I still played it very, very often and enjoyed it. The experiences we had from PT and CT are still the greatest ever, and we find ourselves talking about them all the time. I miss that and hope somehow this new version of Spy vs Merc creates new and incredible memories.

This is what I want. Give the spies from DA all the abilities and gadgets from CT and call it a day. Give the mercs the same abilities/gadgets from CT as well.


A lot of people keep bringing up the issue of merc's having the prox sensor in DA but can you imagine how hard it would of been for them if they had to search all over with the flash light for a spy that could literally be anywhere and also be weary of having there neck snapped. They wouldn't of stood a chance with the speed spies could navigate the map and personally in my eyes it kinda reenforced the security for merc's that let them activity search around instead of been sat in a corner waiting for them to show. I think the setup for DA was clear from the multiplayer trailer Spies had better run Merc's are there to kill you. DA was a game you could turn on and play without needing a group/team to have a good chance of clearing the first section like in CT.

Good players, playing as Mercenary, didn't lose much on Chaos Theory. I feel like you might've been a person that wasn't very good at CT so you hated it. It wasn't easy to be good at, I admit. There was a steep learning curve.

Watch these videos of good CT players. Then watch the videos from DA. You can't tell me that CT doesn't seem more exciting and involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M69r2C49qrs&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpYEDcQneAo&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wyxpb8qH0U&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy4fw6xdp0w&feature=g-upl

DA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuYe8TkEqF4&feature=g-upl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5LLD6T1XkE



For the sake of argument: Here is a DA "montage"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MW6bTXkW4s&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Fruitarian
06-10-2012, 05:37 PM
My thoughts on SvM:

First of all, I must say what a delight it is that Max was allowed to announce the return of the finest adversarial challenge ever born to console. Thanks Ubisoft for listening, and Zack Antoine for more interactivity from the start.

This thread is about protecting and insuring the legacy of the SvM experience we know and love. Primarily, I would like us to discuss the solutions to the evolved gameplay style in multiplayer until we know more about how Toronto are approaching this rebirth.


Most significantly, I want to go with the assumption, as I think it is all but inescapable with games being developed under pressure and with a view to consistency of experience, that the two following gameplay elements WILL BE PRESENT IN MULTIPLAYER

Mark and Execute - we need to face it, I think there is no chance this core feature will not again be present in multiplayer as in Conviction.
Automatic Nightvision - again, much as many of us preferred control, I think this is too large an accessibility change for them to regress.
So what I want to know is, how can we theorise the game we want, and include these features which I'm certain will be present? Can we make it work to our satisfaction? I'm hoping that through discussion we can inform the devs as to our minimum expectations. There is after all a lot of recovery to do here. In Conviction, adversarial was reduced to one vs. one spy matches, where both could AUTOMATICALLY see in the dark, with no objective aside from killing, and with ALL of the meta-layer of hacking interaction gone. SvM is adored today because to me it represents the deepest action multiplayer experience ever conceived, and my worry now, is that accessibility will only allow us a shadow of the former game, to please the quick-fix crowds.


MY FAVOURITES:

Here are my favourite parts of SvM which I won't feel has returned to us uncompromised if they are absent:
THE INTERACTIVITY LAYER - tension building and authentic feeling, to have players interact with their environments was critical to the depth and pressure of the competition. I think this should be extended for both archetypes, so have Spies once again have to observe and respond to the tactical challenge of their environment I.e. Avoid sensors / detection (more varied than powering down cameras or shutting off lasers), actually interact with objectives, again in a more varied way than waiting for a meter to fill. And on the Merc side, having all of this information feed into their awareness was beautiful. I want to see the return of sensors they can place to aid their detection. The Merc side of SvM was one of the most unique experiences you could find online. Having the feeling that you were being attacked by a quick and deadly force, but that the security network around you was your eyes and ears. I want a stronger sense of connection and responsiveness between Merc and his digital fortress. It was amazing to have detection alerts triggering, have one check the cameras (exposing themselves to sabotage) and another rush the objective.
SHADOWPLAY - no high like it, to slip by a human controlled opponent just by working the shadows.
CUSTOMIZATION - one thing Conviction enhanced, and being a Ubisoft game, will be improved on in spades I'm sure. I would like to see not only a wardrobe and a tailoring of our gadgets, but ways to make BOTH our Spies and Mercs more distinctively our own. So suit abilities or gadgets all with gameplay effects. Ranking appearance. I know how much that top Merc suit meant to me, and that was only one of three.
LONGEVITY - with a game this deep, longevity is almost guaranteed. But to support that, I think we have waited long enough to have some evolution of this engagement. I would like to see a richer social level. Ways to see and challenge our friends, perhaps gambling against one another on certain outcomes for the mission. There are lots of other great ideas here. For Maps, I would love if the security elements could be dynamic. So sensor placement would vary, and always change the awareness of a spy rather than it becoming routine. Laser gates say, could spawn on one of three configurations. The maps should be more sophisticated than Conviction's. More layers, more light changes, more air ducts, or usable elements. I also think it would be great to see more of the cinematic developments recently to multiplayer. A fly through of the dynamic map to start? Random spawning from a range of locations for the infiltrators? A cinematic camera to replay the best moments at the finish, or show of the actual avatars when the accolades are listed? More ways for us to see and engage with the development of our hopefully unique characters.

MY CONCERNS:

Ways in which all of this hope could disintegrate. I'm sorry to say that after Convictions multiplayer effort, Blacklist is the first in the series, I will be waiting to experience before buying. Too much trust gone. The replay ability of the Deniable Ops was worth the ticket price, but missing competitive was criminal. Now that they've figured out a way to do it justice, and have announced it to us, I'm glad they waited
MARK N EXECUTE - how will they be integrating this. I think they'll take Conviction's lead and awkwardly not have us able to m&e each othe, but that means the inevitability of a new AI component in the mix., and these, logically, will have to be support for the Mercs. How do you feel that affects the atmosphere and tension and balance? If we can m&e each other, how willl that ever work? Surely a spy would do a handtohand takedown, and then wait until completing an objective, to execute any approaching Mercs. I just can't see the balance working. If it is to be only for the AI, then will their presence make the spy's task too obstructed? I don't know that they would. If anything I felt 2 vs. 2 to be a little too lonely at times. If m&e is in, can it be sparing, harder to earn, and reward with a slow motion killcam calling out both players gamer tags?
MAPS - maps in SvM need to be living entities. They are fortresses, alive and aware. I think for them to survive, they need limitless pathings, and dynamic elements to challenge and surprise the spies. EDIT : just thought some more on this, and realised how great it could be if each map were a key secure site on a map, and each map had its own stats and identity. So high/low security, high/low guard presence, and then the value of the data, maybe even high/low encryption. All of these elements could be dynamic to keep the playlist feeling fresh. So you might target a high security facility for a challenge if the reward was higher, and likewise as a Merc you might defend where the AI are stronger today as you want an easier time, or there are rewards for keeping more of the human detail alive? Also they could show user ratings. So times hacked today. Favourite objectives. Mini leader boards for each location? All would suit the airborne base where we access our missions..
INTEL - that they are leaving this layer out for ease. It will be run and gun action acrobatics, with a Merc with a single weapon, endless neck snapping AI, and no patience required. If it is a third person action experience with stealth elements, then it is no different to uncharted or ghost recon. It is these additional layers of sophistication which make it SC. Conviction denied a lot of this information level, to return to form, I hope they have catered to the hardcore. I got trained how to play SvM by great players, and no it wasn't easy to learn, but kept me thrilled. A similar way for veteran players to introduce novices is all it needs not to have to compromise the core game into a samey accessible shooter.
Thanks for listening everyone. Zack, keep the channels open, so that what you're reviving isn't some Frankenstein that nobody expected.

mistahkmak
06-10-2012, 09:55 PM
M&E has been nothing but trouble in the splinter cell universe.The best course of action is to remove it. Unfortunately the gameplay is centered around it and they wont have it for human vs human matches which will break the immersion undoubtedly

OBMOC
06-10-2012, 11:43 PM
DA and Conviction have nothing on the original complex game design that was Spy vs Merc. It's like playing chess. It's fast paced, player's are constantly thinking, flanking, distracting, etc.. I hope the go all out and give us the most gadgets ever for Spy vs Merc. I'd also love to see more interactive maps with hazards like the aquarium. The only real problem with all the Spy vs Merc modes was the mercs always knowing where the spies were entering and leaving the map. This allowed the mercs to spam the spy spawn entry points with grenades and spam them a second time as the spies exited the map. I hope this is addressed in the new version with map designed so that the key area or building is in the middle of the map and the spies are allowed to enter from all sides. I would like to see the spawn location of the spies generated at the begining of the match randomly. After gathering a disc or hacking intel i'd like to see the spies retrieval area also chosen randomly. When this is chosen both sides are alerted to the exit location and then it's a fight to the finish. this would balance the game greatly.

braiog
06-11-2012, 01:44 AM
Also.

> Make spys look like stealthy black ops, not bald-healded futuristic "spies". Make Mercs look like PMC soldiers.
> If I hear an announcer say "Headshot!" then we're going to find the project lead and <redacted>.

CoolBrinkman
06-11-2012, 05:10 AM
If Mark and Execute HAVE to be included in SvM, then please let it be for the tracking bullet and stun-gun only; not lethal or damaging force.

reddragonhrcro
06-11-2012, 12:41 PM
haha.

Killing spreeee!

ultra killll!!!

xRaDRoacHx
06-11-2012, 02:33 PM
God like!

J CROS10
06-12-2012, 03:53 AM
This is all speculation but,
You have to assume this game will be different than CT and PT. I know that sounds aweful but thats the way it's going to be. Based on the single player trailer you can assume that the combat system might be fast paced, but this doesnt take away from stealth.

I have a feeling that you are going to see a ton of customization when it comes to the mercanary. I'm talking Rifles, Sub-machine Guns, Shotguns and Pistols, from Ak's - Deagles. I think the merc is gonna be in average clothing from the beginning and through the rank system work up to body armor and helmets. People love customization so there is no denying that this will happen. Spies wont be able to change the color of their suit, but maybe how it looks, and i dont think they are getting a gun, not even to the extent of PT or CT. If they get anything it would be maybe a short ranged tazer.

Also, mercs are going to be quick, not as agile as a spy but they will be quick. Typical Cod movement i suppose.
Mines might not make a return, but instead, c4 and claymores.
Merc's wont be some kind of burly juggernaut with a ton of gear on for no reason.
They are making this game more modern and realistic, if you get what im saying, compared to the odd futuristic feel of the other games.

Definitely think there should be a rookie playlist until rank 10. Max Payne 3 did this perfectly.

If they don't have MT hospital and Cinema i will be disappointed. Cinema was by far the freakiest map from PT, the voice from the screen...

5 v 5 sounds crazy, like absolute chaos, unless they were smart about it. It's an interesting concept but they could definitely pull it off with different zones, think Warehouse as a whole and objectives scattered in the main Warehouse as well as in the office and back. Where the spies could choose to head to any of them, but 5 people rushing one objective would be way too easy, especially if you're on the last objective. So who knows...

They want new people to play this game, not just the old fans. You can also guess that they want to allow people to play together, so i doubt it will be 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 so 5 v 5 might be an option.

M&E will absolutely 100% not be in the multiplayer, that is an absolute fact. There is no way that would ever be incorporated into a multiplayer.

KevinPDZ0916
06-12-2012, 04:34 AM
If it is 5 vs. 5, then this probably means...

1. Huge, open maps, even when compared to Double Agent's big maps
2. Numerous objectives
3. The possibility of the terminal hacking returning
4. The speed of the spies and mercs will be like DA or faster. Anything slow as PT and CT spies / mercs would not work on huge maps
5. Hopefully no more mercs being able to kill the spies at their spawn point because of large maps
6. The possibility of a radar / motion tracker / proxy detector for the mercs if the maps are large

And sometimes it was hard enough (especially now) getting a 3 vs. 3 game on DA. I wonder how much harder it would be to have a 5 vs. 5 match all the time, especially if most of the SvM community abandons it like they did with DA.

I am sure it will not be exactly like CT and PT. I mean it is going to be modernized to an extent. I'm just curious to find out what that is when they show it off hopefully soon.

michaelanjello
06-12-2012, 05:53 AM
you know whatd be cool? If they game all of us the opportunity to test out SvM for them and report on it/report all bugs and allowed cross-platforming. Because I only have pc. :(

aCynicalMind5
06-12-2012, 07:34 AM
The entirety of the game, I only had like 2 or 3 partners. We played together all the time. One of them has become a very good real life friend that I eventually got to meet. His GT is/was Elite Spartan. The other partner was Mr Poor.

Brandon...I cannot believe you forgot about me!!! I know this is very random, it is a small world indeed my friend.
I will for sure be returning to SvM, but most likely on PC. Any chance u might play pc version? It would be good
To play with an old friend/partner upon release, so think about it!

Much love,
Zach (JesusKnowsBest / aCynicalMind)

Gaio0_0
06-12-2012, 12:02 PM
I think it'll be some kind of dm 5x5, but mercs vs. mercs.

Oh My Godmode
06-12-2012, 03:42 PM
Brandon...I cannot believe you forgot about me!!! I know this is very random, it is a small world indeed my friend.
I will for sure be returning to SvM, but most likely on PC. Any chance u might play pc version? It would be good
To play with an old friend/partner upon release, so think about it!

Much love,
Zach (JesusKnowsBest / aCynicalMind)

My bad dude!

I have CT on PC currently. I'll probably pick BL up for 360, if the SvM isn't terrible.

aCynicalMind5
06-12-2012, 05:37 PM
I have CT for pc also...but I cannot get it to run on my computer. I have win 7 64-bit if that helps, any ideas on how I could play/install it?

Oh My Godmode
06-13-2012, 01:59 AM
Idk. I bought it on steam.

KevinPDZ0916
06-13-2012, 03:41 AM
I found a news story that SvM in Blacklist was being helped developed by Ubisoft Montreal. It's in a previous post I made on this thread.

ReConNinJa.CF
06-13-2012, 04:08 AM
I have CT for pc also...but I cannot get it to run on my computer. I have win 7 64-bit if that helps, any ideas on how I could play/install it?

I know how to get it to run, please contact my friend by skype and ill help you out,,

:AgentX_003 is his skype thanks.

aCynicalMind5
06-13-2012, 05:08 PM
What's ur handle on scct pc, bstark? I'm considering buying it over steam because I seem to have lost my installation disc.
Do people still play much???

reddragonhrcro
06-13-2012, 05:13 PM
What's ur handle on scct pc, bstark? I'm considering buying it over steam because I seem to have lost my installation disc.
Do people still play much???

The last time i played there were a bunch of hackers around,guess that they still are.

Oh My Godmode
06-13-2012, 09:22 PM
What's ur handle on scct pc, bstark? I'm considering buying it over steam because I seem to have lost my installation disc.
Do people still play much???


ive never played it lol


but we use xlink to play on xbox

strikernightsha
06-14-2012, 06:56 PM
Absolutely CT had the best MP and i agree if the servers were still up i would be playing still

Elnerd
06-27-2012, 01:23 AM
The entirety of the game, I only had like 2 or 3 partners. We played together all the time. One of them has become a very good real life friend that I eventually got to meet. His GT is/was Elite Spartan. The other partner was Mr Poor.

Hmm yea very small world i remember you god mode, not a bad merc if i say so myself, i knew poor and timf they weren't bad, and a few others Bowser etc i haven't played since DA, might even break it out and get into touch with it to remember that old beast since CT is down now, played you many times and poor/tim bowser etc in GB

Remember a Dan Bass/Killerz?

Oh My Godmode
06-27-2012, 01:39 AM
Hmm yea very small world i remember you god mode, not a bad merc if i say so myself, i knew poor and timf they weren't bad, and a few others Bowser etc i haven't played since DA, might even break it out and get into touch with it to remember that old beast since CT is down now, played you many times and poor/tim bowser etc in GB

Remember a Dan Bass/Killerz?

I do remember Dan Bass. And Hardkore.


I still talk to Hardkore from time to time.

Elnerd
06-27-2012, 02:15 AM
I do remember Dan Bass. And Hardkore.


I still talk to Hardkore from time to time.

yea nice one.

I'd have to say though in answering to an earlier post you made, Poor was a ****ing good spy and very stealthy, but i believe the reasoning behind this was because timf was very good aggro, he created so many oppertunitys for poor to utilize imo. Both a good pairing.

Used to hate PT with how many aggro spies there was exploiting/beasting you to ****, i kind of miss it O.o

X Pshhh X
06-27-2012, 05:54 AM
awww **** godmode remember pshhhh and shhhhhh on CT we had game battles we even beat deadly angels!

Oh My Godmode
06-27-2012, 01:18 PM
Poor was an excellent spy, no doubt. But his Merc game was top notch. If it weren't for Poor, Tim wouldn't have ever been as good as he was. Even by only playing with poor for a few months, if that, he taught me things about a game that I'd been playing for years. Tim had good instincts, but Poor really helped him develop those.


The way that Poor played Merc influenced every competitive player. If you were on GB and wanted to be a good Merc, you would find yourself trying to mimic poor.




Pshhhh: They never lost on GB. But they had lost a couple ranked matches I think.

Elnerd
06-27-2012, 04:33 PM
Hmm i disagree, i guess its opinions vs opinions but i generally thought Timf had surpassed poor in terms of aggro spy and merc, like i said it got to the point that timf's aggro was so good and clever it allowed poor to be good at what he did, but i thought timf was a better merc imo.

That saying tbh i never mimicked poors merc style of play and i did just fine, i dont think i really remember any spys taking a clear game off of us unless it was an unbelievably ****ty host or they just got extremley lucky, Obviously i lost a few, but we handled timf and poor pretty simply as we knew their game plan to well, beat them a few times to.

Bowser give me more trouble than poor or timf as a spy tbh, his mixup of aggro/stealth was pretty nasty.

Oh My Godmode
06-27-2012, 11:49 PM
Hmm i disagree, i guess its opinions vs opinions but i generally thought Timf had surpassed poor in terms of aggro spy and merc, like i said it got to the point that timf's aggro was so good and clever it allowed poor to be good at what he did, but i thought timf was a better merc imo.

That saying tbh i never mimicked poors merc style of play and i did just fine, i dont think i really remember any spys taking a clear game off of us unless it was an unbelievably ****ty host or they just got extremley lucky, Obviously i lost a few, but we handled timf and poor pretty simply as we knew their game plan to well, beat them a few times to.

Bowser give me more trouble than poor or timf as a spy tbh, his mixup of aggro/stealth was pretty nasty.

Poor was an incredible spy/merc on PT when he played with some guy I can't even remember. It wasn't until Poor teamed with Tim on CT that Tim was just awesome, IMO.

Bowser wasn't ever just super impressive to me.

Tim was a very good aggro spy, though. I agree with that. He wasn't break your neck aggro though, he was make you make a mistake aggro. He'd bait you until you pursued him and when you made a mistake, he'd punish you. Poor seemed like he'd just out smart you.

Elnerd
06-28-2012, 11:05 AM
Yea thats what i ment by tim's aggro.

PT ahh the game everybody learned to hate, i don't usually count players being good on that game, i think everybody was at some point with the amount of shear unbalanced ******** you could pull off as spy/merc.

CT at least got a bit more balanced, i'm really hoping BL brings back 4 gadgets and 2v2...i'd even donate along with the millions to make it happen.

reddragonhrcro
06-28-2012, 12:04 PM
Yea thats what i ment by tim's aggro.

PT ahh the game everybody learned to hate, i don't usually count players being good on that game, i think everybody was at some point with the amount of shear unbalanced ******** you could pull off as spy/merc.

CT at least got a bit more balanced, i'm really hoping BL brings back 4 gadgets and 2v2...i'd even donate along with the millions to make it happen.

BL will have 5v5

Elnerd
06-28-2012, 03:16 PM
^
Has that been stone walled though? Or just penciled in? As nobody knows **** all about this game yet.

Either way if theirs an option to create 2v2 in lobbies i guarantee 90% of the hardcore SC community will be playing these matchups, Unless the size of the maps is ridiculous then 3v3 tops?

I dunno, it could work out i guess, but if they say they are bringing " classic " spy v merc back, then 5v5 is not the way to go about it.

The_5_Freedoms
06-28-2012, 04:30 PM
^
Has that been stone walled though? Or just penciled in? As nobody knows **** all about this game yet.

Either way if theirs an option to create 2v2 in lobbies i guarantee 90% of the hardcore SC community will be playing these matchups, Unless the size of the maps is ridiculous then 3v3 tops?

I dunno, it could work out i guess, but if they say they are bringing " classic " spy v merc back, then 5v5 is not the way to go about it.
I hope we can have uneven teams like in Ghost Recon: Future Soldier.

Having two spies vs. eight mercenaries could be pretty fun. :p

DrCactus
06-29-2012, 06:13 PM
I smell the retun of some wonderful drinking nights.As soon as I heard of Blacklist SvM, I said they better not mess it up. All they'd have to do is take the CT version, with the community made maps/fixes ie: MT maps and Mr.Mic's Map pack. Re-create Spekkio's SvM Noob Guide, update the graphics and fix some sound issues and hit boxes. (Hearing a spy accross the map due to poor sound code is not good).I was never a major fan of the tripple nade. It was a glitch that got used, and became a stapple. This should be fixed. Unless, a new weapon type that incorporated all three was created, then sure. As for the main concern for Ubisoft is the learning curve. As some mentioned, creating rank levels would help that. But I found, in the PC world, players would host and identify noob / mid / advanced players. There were even some players that help "training servers" - Giving players these options would benifit the steep learning curve. The learning curve is what is most likely the reason they changed DA SvM from CT. Going back to the CT version, is the best course of action, as the intensity and play mechanics have yet to be equalled in Multiplayer by any game. From what i've read here, Ubisoft might be contemplating larger player games ie: 5v5 of some type. Not really sure how this would work if true as creating teams would be hard. Especially given the difficulty of effectively communicating with ones team, let alone, avoiding the "lone wolf" syndrome players like to do. While i'm excited the SAM has made its return, i'll remaind guarded on what to expect, until video's or more information is released.

reddragonhrcro
06-29-2012, 06:37 PM
Well in any case i m glad that SvM is back,either it being CT or DA style as long as it is fun to play and features a lot of customization options and a lot of maps.

Oh My Godmode
06-29-2012, 06:41 PM
I smell the retun of some wonderful drinking nights.As soon as I heard of Blacklist SvM, I said they better not mess it up. All they'd have to do is take the CT version, with the community made maps/fixes ie: MT maps and Mr.Mic's Map pack. Re-create Spekkio's SvM Noob Guide, update the graphics and fix some sound issues and hit boxes. (Hearing a spy accross the map due to poor sound code is not good).I was never a major fan of the tripple nade. It was a glitch that got used, and became a stapple. This should be fixed. Unless, a new weapon type that incorporated all three was created, then sure. As for the main concern for Ubisoft is the learning curve. As some mentioned, creating rank levels would help that. But I found, in the PC world, players would host and identify noob / mid / advanced players. There were even some players that help "training servers" - Giving players these options would benifit the steep learning curve. The learning curve is what is most likely the reason they changed DA SvM from CT. Going back to the CT version, is the best course of action, as the intensity and play mechanics have yet to be equalled in Multiplayer by any game. From what i've read here, Ubisoft might be contemplating larger player games ie: 5v5 of some type. Not really sure how this would work if true as creating teams would be hard. Especially given the difficulty of effectively communicating with ones team, let alone, avoiding the "lone wolf" syndrome players like to do. While i'm excited the SAM has made its return, i'll remaind guarded on what to expect, until video's or more information is released.


The triple nade spam wasn't used on CT Xbox as far as I can tell. We favored the better gadgets.

DrCactus
06-29-2012, 08:01 PM
Yea? Like the glitched quick cam?

Elnerd
07-01-2012, 09:11 AM
Have to agree with godmode on this one lol.

Cactus in PT 3 grenades ****ed you up i admit that, but that was basically a beta version for balancing CT. It's not a glitch lol, it's seriously intended....or they would of took it out in CT wtf?

In CT not once did i get ****ed up by 3 grenades hitting my face, the durations up after the stun effect, 90% of the GB community would also agree, it was dog **** lol. It is a total waste to use 3 grenades, as god mode is saying.

As for the quick sticky (glitch as you put it Lol...) It only works when the sticky hits the wall, ERGO. Working as intended. You can't just shoot a sticky and press gas mid air, it must hit a wall?

Not sure where you're going with this Cactus but no disrespect you sound like one of those guys that if he gets ****ed up by something legit you dont adapt or adjust you just cry for the nerf bat? Jus' Sayin.

Not glitches these things where clearly intended and balanced, or it would of been taken down before CT's multi went up.

inb4 cactus only liked playing spy and never really learned how to play merc, and got ****ed up by every method going.

Cliffs:
3 nading is pointless and ******ed
quick stickying is easily avoidable.

Oh My Godmode
07-01-2012, 05:11 PM
Yea? Like the glitched quick cam?


Sticky cams weren't glitched, either.

Om4zd
07-01-2012, 10:23 PM
Boast much.

Havent people from Annency joined this new Ubi?

DrCactus
07-03-2012, 02:29 AM
I took the "we use better gadgets" as a jab towards PC players not myself. I responded with the quick cam glitch that I had heard from others that allowed the gas of a quick cam to be instantaneous when it landed. This was not the case on PC. hence I called it a glitch. Poor words perhaps, even more so if this is not true.
In any event I meant it to be a fun jab at Xbox players who, back in my day, claimed they were the best, blah blah blah. Just reviving an old rivalry.

I like how out of my post you picked out the one thing such as intant triple nading to attack me, and make up the ideas that I only go spy. I'm surprised you didn't include that I use the uzi in your post. You don't mean to disrespect me, but you did, so I'm not sure why you'd even include it. That's like saying "in my opinion, your stupid. so don't take offence" I'm going to jump to the conclusion that you're an Xbox player as well.

In any case, I think my post is still valid, and things should be discussed about blacklist SvM that won't ruin it.

Edit: Would my post be more valid if instead of the instant triple-nade, I mentioned the vision switch recovery. Would that make it better?

SolidSage
07-03-2012, 07:00 AM
I'm glad they are bringing it back and hope they make it interesting enough for me to want to play. I love a good MP but there was too much about SvM that I disliked.

I hope for a view option most, so if I am forced to play as something other than a Spy, in my Spy game, I can at least still play in 3rd person.
I want to enjoy SvM and sink hours into it, but if it's unchanged from before, I am going to have to skip it.

DrCactus
07-03-2012, 04:30 PM
I'd have to say then the possiblity of the 5v5 may solve that problem if they make each team a combination of Spies and Mercs. That format would make a lot of the "Spies" only players happy, because it is such a different perspective. That format unfortuantely could make the Mark and excute system viable. Then again, how crazy would it be to be creeping in a vent, only to run into an enemy spy. Talk about close quarter combat.

reddragonhrcro
07-03-2012, 05:54 PM
I'd have to say then the possiblity of the 5v5 may solve that problem if they make each team a combination of Spies and Mercs. That format would make a lot of the "Spies" only players happy, because it is such a different perspective. That format unfortuantely could make the Mark and excute system viable. Then again, how crazy would it be to be creeping in a vent, only to run into an enemy spy. Talk about close quarter combat.

Well they could add various types of game modes to make different types of mix ups.Spys vs Mercs,Spys vs Spys,Deathmach,...

michaelanjello
07-03-2012, 06:00 PM
I'd have to say then the possiblity of the 5v5 may solve that problem if they make each team a combination of Spies and Mercs. That format would make a lot of the "Spies" only players happy, because it is such a different perspective. That format unfortuantely could make the Mark and excute system viable. Then again, how crazy would it be to be creeping in a vent, only to run into an enemy spy. Talk about close quarter combat.
I think if it was solely based on that, it wouldnt be too great. Since it would come down to spy's killing spy's and mercs killing mercs. It would be like 2 seperate games going on at once. Kinda boring, no?

DrCactus
07-03-2012, 06:56 PM
Not necessarily. If each team had different objectives to protect, as well as the map properly laid out in size. If it was done 5v5, and was improved CT play, it would get pretty harry.Dynamic play as well as special builds for the mercs could be created, such as Defensive merc, offensive so he can deal with a fire fight from other mercs, or a hybrid. If Mark and execute, well, I don't even want to talk about it 'cause, as others mentioned, it really wouldn't be that much fun.

ReConNinJa.CF
07-03-2012, 10:04 PM
I'm glad they are bringing it back and hope they make it interesting enough for me to want to play. I love a good MP but there was too much about SvM that I disliked.

I hope for a view option most, so if I am forced to play as something other than a Spy, in my Spy game, I can at least still play in 3rd person.
I want to enjoy SvM and sink hours into it, but if it's unchanged from before, I am going to have to skip it.

Intresting , what you mean like doubleagent where you have everything handed to you on a platter , Please gtfo, another nub that doesn't know what hes talking about

Oh My Godmode
07-04-2012, 02:39 AM
Intresting , what you mean like doubleagent where you have everything handed to you on a platter , Please gtfo, another nub that doesn't know what hes talking about

Dude this is totally uncalled for, really.

Oh My Godmode
07-04-2012, 02:45 AM
I took the "we use better gadgets" as a jab towards PC players not myself. I responded with the quick cam glitch that I had heard from others that allowed the gas of a quick cam to be instantaneous when it landed. This was not the case on PC. hence I called it a glitch. Poor words perhaps, even more so if this is not true.
In any event I meant it to be a fun jab at Xbox players who, back in my day, claimed they were the best, blah blah blah. Just reviving an old rivalry.

I like how out of my post you picked out the one thing such as intant triple nading to attack me, and make up the ideas that I only go spy. I'm surprised you didn't include that I use the uzi in your post. You don't mean to disrespect me, but you did, so I'm not sure why you'd even include it. That's like saying "in my opinion, your stupid. so don't take offence" I'm going to jump to the conclusion that you're an Xbox player as well.

In any case, I think my post is still valid, and things should be discussed about blacklist SvM that won't ruin it.

Edit: Would my post be more valid if instead of the instant triple-nade, I mentioned the vision switch recovery. Would that make it better?

I didn't mean that directly towards you, but rather the players that tried to spam nades and didn't win. I'm not going to rehash the pc vs xbox rivalry. It's old. That dead horse was disintegrated many years ago.

I will say this, though: On the console, the uzi isn't looked down on. Of course, we don't have a pinpoint aiming device, either.

CovertOwl
07-04-2012, 05:41 AM
Intresting , what you mean like doubleagent where you have everything handed to you on a platter , Please gtfo, another nub that doesn't know what hes talking about

Although this is a harsh response, I agree that anything besides the original PT or CT style SvM would be pretty horrible. Mercs in 3rd person completely defeats the purpose.

Elnerd
07-04-2012, 11:14 AM
No cactus, just no. I took what you said and attacked you, while not attacking you, while being sarcastic about not attacking you...because what you said was pure rookie talk. Tripple grenade spam was never seen in any GB battles to this day...i'm being serious, hmm i wonder why? Possibly because it's worthless? Again working as intended. Again quick stickying, working as intended...Again not seeing your point you are trying to make and then deflect onto some other glitch or what you think may be a glitch because you aren't backing up your theories for the first two in the first place?

All the while i am giving you clear indications that Quick stickying only works when the camera hits the wall to release the gas ergo working as intended, and the fact that tripple nading died in PT. The effect durations run out after a stun phase now(working as intended and pointless as the durations are up when they are free to move) and just like yea....never seen a team use tripple nading in GB because its worthless, however like gmode is saying more gadgets were used.

Anyway the old xbox vs pc is dead as it's been said, but i will say this, pc has alot of mod ***s and the aiming is incredibly easy.

P.s bring back xbox CT servers. ( Not bias what so ever)

Would lol if their was a Cross counter platform GB's, as i know for a fact all the hardcore veteran PT/CT GB xbox squads would run through pc like a train if people are crying about little things like this, **** i was playing a few days ago and people are still finding **** out that i knew back in PT, and these guys are ment to be battle hardened players.

DrCactus
07-04-2012, 01:55 PM
I didn't mean that directly towards you, but rather the players that tried to spam nades and didn't win. I'm not going to rehash the pc vs xbox rivalry. It's old. That dead horse was disintegrated many years ago.I will say this, though: On the console, the uzi isn't looked down on. Of course, we don't have a pinpoint aiming device, either.Sounds good. My comment about the Uzi on PC regardded that it Lagged everyone. So it was essentially banned. The one thing I'm recalling is that Xbox and PC players due to the differences in the versions played differently. Elnerd, you seemed fixed in the thought that because in the PC version were many used the tripple nade, while I agree that it's silly to waste them and only benificial with a talented aggro spy, was still infact a glitch. Being able to shoot 3 different types of grenades faster than it takes to reload one is an issue. On PC if a spy fell from a high location, one could eliminate/reduce the recovery time, by switching visions as you landed. This helped increase the spies mobility. I'm not sure if this was the case on Xbox.As for my rookie talk, well I guess you can keep calling it that if you feel the need. My points for SvM Blacklist are still very valid in my original post, and if you don't think they are perhaps you should talk about that. At least then, depending on whether or not you agree if they are bad ideas or good ideas, we can have a real discussion about Blacklist and not whether something was a glitch or not in a game released almost 6 years ago. Your clearly from the xbox world, and I from the PC. If we can possibly agree on any points, maybe this game will be good for the both of us. So keep on attacking me calling me a rookie, noob, scrub, or whatever it is they call it, but atleast put something into the conversation.

Elnerd
07-04-2012, 02:24 PM
Huge wall of text was hard to pick bits out. Ok then again from the top, Tripple nading is not a glitch nor is it effective with any aggro spy. Played against some of the best aggro spies and they only ever used 2 nades. There is a much more effective way to do this "triple nading" you are talking of, which actually does punish a merc and it is all about timing, but who are we kidding, you'd probably call that a glitch to. The thing is, it's been in since PT, they've obviously never patched in tn CT because it was obviously intended how many times have i got to say this.

They did however patch things they intended or what they thought was broken....E.g The duration of getting hit with all 3 grenades got shortened drastically from PT To CT as the after effects of the nade hitting you was insane, **** a flash bang would be on your screen for about 5 seconds as apposed to of around 1-2 seconds on CT. They fixed the problem, the duration of the grenade effects...

They patched repetitive jump killing,
etc etc...they patched what they intended, ugh my brain is hurting.

The quick sticky again can only release gas once it hits the wall, you are possibly experiencing lag and you think this is a glitch? I can assure you it is not, as the gas can only be released once the camera is attached.

Are my valid points coming across? Are you under standing where i am coming from yet? "They patched what they intended, they left in what they intended...."

As for the mobility and recovery, i knew about it yes, that does need fixed. I do jump on pc from time to time, but tbh it's not even a big enough issue for me, you cannot prove or dis prove somebody doing it, i'm usually putting out too much pressure for them anyway and 9/10 times they die and or when they come back with full health they die again.

i am all for a discussion, but what i'm not for what we also had problems with in the xbox community was people who did not play pt and or seen true glitching/exploits and seen true patching and things intently left in as they were not classed as broken, come up with a ridiculous idea and project it to the company and create pols and cry for nerfs because they generally 9/10 times never tried to over come the problem and or practice.

By the end of CT my judgement of quick stickying was godlike, you could just sense where a sticky was going to be placed after a taze, you had hunches they worked out, where as the newer/more casual players just cried nerf when they got absolutley bullied by a good team who's probably been playing day 1 PT, MP.

Little tip for you, People are always better.

I never cried when i used to play spartan and godmode on station and they'ed just camp the spawn and destroy anything, you just get on with it and learn to do it when its your turn to be merc, because if you **** up its all on you and they can argue to learn how to be effective at defending spawn points.

Noisewater-US
07-04-2012, 05:16 PM
I never cried when i used to play spartan and godmode on station and they'ed just camp the spawn and destroy anything, you just get on with it and learn to do it when its your turn to be merc, because if you **** up its all on you and they can argue to learn how to be effective at defending spawn points.

what? That's how it's played... good point? This has nothing to do with what cactus is saying, and nothing to do with a wishlist for SC:BL...

As for bullying on PC - rarely happened. That gaming community was very kind and helpful to new players, which is one reason the cross-platform would be tricky. How can a PC player easily help a new 360 player? Possible I guess, I just don't know what that looks like.

I'd like to see different "Modes", one being "Classic" where you could play good ol' SvM. Then you could have TDM, 5v5, merc war, and what ever crazy modes they come up with as separate options.

DrCactus
07-04-2012, 05:25 PM
The wall of text seems to be a format issue on my computer here at work. It's not registering the paragraphs I make, which is extremely annoying for you and me. So my apologies on that. It's out of my control........................Summary/ conclusion: They still need to make the fixes on the glitches. My examplem, in your eyes, is not a game breaking glitch and thus a poor example. All other glitches should be fixed. Thus validating my point...................... You could have said this in the first place, and I would immediately agree with you:
what i'm not for what we also had problems with in the xbox community was people who did not play pt and or seen true glitching/exploits and seen true patching and things intently left in as they were not classed as broken, come up with a ridiculous idea and project it to the company and create pols and cry for nerfs because they generally 9/10 times never tried to over come the problem and or practice"So please give me the benifit of the doubt that i've been around for just as long as you, and perhaps we'll get along.............EDIT: Noisewater, how's it goin'! Incase you don't recall, this is Daybreak

Oh My Godmode
07-04-2012, 06:18 PM
I really want to play come CT right now. Nobody is on any of the xbox connect or kai servers. I have pc, but haven't played it ever online lol

ReConNinJa.CF
07-04-2012, 08:35 PM
I really want to play come CT right now. Nobody is on any of the xbox connect or kai servers. I have pc, but haven't played it ever online lol

I will play / help you wtih the controller part , skype ?

Oh My Godmode
07-04-2012, 09:10 PM
Skype: stark_said

ReConNinJa.CF
07-05-2012, 03:49 PM
Skype: stark_said

added :P

braiog
07-05-2012, 11:58 PM
Wow. The Usual Suspects logo. I haven't seen that in forever. :)

You guys gotta let me update it. My graphic skills have progressed considerably since then.

DrCactus
07-06-2012, 06:40 PM
Braiog!Nice to see you again. Seems Blacklist SvM is creating roublings in the old ranks. Which is good for Ubisoft and every fan of SvM. As long as they don't Mark and Exectue the multiplayer. That'll piss everyone right off.

braiog
07-06-2012, 08:52 PM
Braiog!Nice to see you again. Seems Blacklist SvM is creating roublings in the old ranks. Which is good for Ubisoft and every fan of SvM. As long as they don't Mark and Exectue the multiplayer. That'll piss everyone right off.
What are you talking about?

M&E is perfect for SvM! In today's world, where gamers fear challenges, the ability to perform a simple kill and then get rewarded with 4 more by doing something as difficult as pressing a button (at the right time, mind you) is a great game mechanic that ......lol. OK, I'm sorry, I can't do this with a straight face.

M&E is the epitome of garbage and has no place in SvM.

I'm all about the Chaos Theory-era SvM mechanics in a new engine. Tons of light and shadow play. None of that garbage in DA where Spies would be detected simply because they were in proximity to a Merc. Fun gadgets for Spies (and the taser rifle) and powerful tools of destruction and surveillance for the Mercs. SvM needs to be made separately so that it can get the F2P treatment (in that I'd love to see it get constant attention, new content, etc.)

I got a bad feeling in my gut though,l since Ubi likes to "innovate" and simply take the game in directions the fans aren't completely behind. Their chances to take SvM back to its roots (with the appropriate updates) is probably less of a chance than for them to make some mode that is next to nothing like what we are expecting.

And that would be a shame because SvM is, hands down, THE most creative MP game mode I have ever played. Can't wait to play with old school friends.

Oh My Godmode
07-06-2012, 09:42 PM
What are you talking about?

M&E is perfect for SvM! In today's world, where gamers fear challenges, the ability to perform a simple kill and then get rewarded with 4 more by doing something as difficult as pressing a button (at the right time, mind you) is a great game mechanic that ......lol. OK, I'm sorry, I can't do this with a straight face.

M&E is the epitome of garbage and has no place in SvM.

I'm all about the Chaos Theory-era SvM mechanics in a new engine. Tons of light and shadow play. None of that garbage in DA where Spies would be detected simply because they were in proximity to a Merc. Fun gadgets for Spies (and the taser rifle) and powerful tools of destruction and surveillance for the Mercs. SvM needs to be made separately so that it can get the F2P treatment (in that I'd love to see it get constant attention, new content, etc.)

I got a bad feeling in my gut though,l since Ubi likes to "innovate" and simply take the game in directions the fans aren't completely behind. Their chances to take SvM back to its roots (with the appropriate updates) is probably less of a chance than for them to make some mode that is next to nothing like what we are expecting.

And that would be a shame because SvM is, hands down, THE most creative MP game mode I have ever played. Can't wait to play with old school friends.

OMG Wanna be best friends?

ReConNinJa.CF
07-06-2012, 09:47 PM
OMG Wanna be best friends?

lol add me to skype already :D/ on a better note lets keep this topic popping, so it out shines the rest :D

KevinPDZ0916
07-07-2012, 07:11 AM
I just read something from an the sneaky bastards interview where Redding discusses the economy system. Like he said, the economy system is supported across all modes, where you can upgrade your guns, gadgets, and suits. So this means that stuff like this should apply to Spies vs. Mercs. So does this comment already imply no more PT/CT style SvM, but instead a SvM that is based off the campaign gameplay that we have seen already?

"We havenít talked much about it yet, because frankly we donít have that much time to discuss it, but we have an entire economy system that is shared across all of the game modes, whether itís singleplayer, co-op or Spies versus Mercs, and a customisation system for all of the weapons and all of the gadgets and even the suit itself thatís shared across all of those modes."

Oh My Godmode
07-07-2012, 03:47 PM
I just read something from an the sneaky bastards interview where Redding discusses the economy system. Like he said, the economy system is supported across all modes, where you can upgrade your guns, gadgets, and suits. So this means that stuff like this should apply to Spies vs. Mercs. So does this comment already imply no more PT/CT style SvM, but instead a SvM that is based off the campaign gameplay that we have seen already?

"We haven’t talked much about it yet, because frankly we don’t have that much time to discuss it, but we have an entire economy system that is shared across all of the game modes, whether it’s singleplayer, co-op or Spies versus Mercs, and a customisation system for all of the weapons and all of the gadgets and even the suit itself that’s shared across all of those modes."

I don't think it necessarily means that CT/PT style is out. The economy system could simply mean camo/gun skins/goggle colors etc. and not actually gadgets or gameplay stuff. Similar to the way Gears of War 3 implemented character skins/gun skins.

Oh My Godmode
07-07-2012, 03:48 PM
lol add me to skype already :D/ on a better note lets keep this topic popping, so it out shines the rest :D

Done and done.

SolidSage
07-07-2012, 06:26 PM
Intresting , what you mean like doubleagent where you have everything handed to you on a platter , Please gtfo, another nub that doesn't know what hes talking about

Recon just stop being negative and jog on. I don't like your mode, big deal, get over it. I can't imagine how upset you'd get if I said I didn't like your Barbie collection.
And let's leave it at that shall we, an eye for an eye, rather than turning this positive thread about something YOU like into a nasty hate filled argument. I'm allowed to not enjoy something, it doesn't reflect on the quality of SvM at all, just my preference's for a MP game. The mode is obviously high quality because there are a ton of fans that like it. I wasn't talking about it's quality at all.

@DrCactus
You might be right about your 5v5 mode, especially if they are comprised of both archetypes.

shobhit7777777
07-07-2012, 07:49 PM
@Recon

What? SCDA MP was far superior to SCCT versus and moreso than that poor poor PT online crap. SCDA was far more challenging...but I guess you won't appreciate that. CT versus was too easy man. I would steamroll guys in that...too easy.

ReConNinJa.CF
07-07-2012, 11:47 PM
@Recon

What? SCDA MP was far superior to SCCT versus and moreso than that poor poor PT online crap. SCDA was far more challenging...but I guess you won't appreciate that. CT versus was too easy man. I would steamroll guys in that...too easy.

Nice trolling, challenging ? ya maybe for a toddler with down syndrome :/ because it's kids like you that wanna turn a game of chess into checkers and made ubisoft want to "expand to broader audience " and then have ubi give us Experienced players the shaft.


@SolidSage : You can like what you like but don't come in here suggesting things that US hardcore players find noobish and unnecessary, IF anything all ubi needs is
the ghosts from double agent / A voice to give new players like yourself a step by step intro so that it can be explained at your level.

KevinPDZ0916
07-08-2012, 08:21 AM
After reading some comments from interviews about SvM not being in Conviction, they are either not going to have it like the single player mechanics, or they are going to.

I hate to say it, but I do feel that this new SvM will be like the campaign gameplay. M&E may or may not make it in, but the cover system, the agile spies, and the possibility of a third person mercenaries perspective is possible considering the radical gameplay changes. They said in one of the interviews that SvM would have to match Conviction's new mechanics if it were in the game. But they held off on it because co-op was playing their strengths at the time. Now that they have had over two years working on this redefined gameplay concept, I believe it is only natural for us to expect this to happen.

I mean, I wouldn't mind it, because I am good with change. I did like DA's SvM even though it was not as good as PT/CT. But when the Xbox Live Marketplace is already saying "Online Multiplayer: 2-10 players", the idea of a 5 spies versus 5 mercenaries is really a big core change already to consider in terms of the gameplay style. This means larger maps than DA possibly, possibly faster spies and mercs, and if that is true, then it seems more likely that it would resemble the campaign gameplay because of how fast that action was.

I really do dig the campaign footage so far, but I sure do miss those years of constantly playing PT / CT for hours on end.

Plus, when Ubisoft says they listened to the fans, I wonder how much listening they have actually done.

It's either...
A) We listened to the fans about wanting SvM back, so we put SvM back in the game (regardless of drastic changes to the gameplay from what it used to be)
or
B) We have listened to the fans about wanting SvM back, so we put SvM back in the game and are giving the veterans of PT / CT the gameplay style that they want (or something close to it)

I just wonder how long we will have to wait before we hear news about it.
It's been an entire month since E3 and I'm surprised we haven't heard more new things from this game that is coming out next spring.

shobhit7777777
07-08-2012, 08:42 AM
Nice trolling, challenging ? ya maybe for a toddler with down syndrome :/ because it's kids like you that wanna turn a game of chess into checkers and made ubisoft want to "expand to broader audience " and then have ubi give us Experienced players the shaft.


@SolidSage : You can like what you like but don't come in here suggesting things that US hardcore players find noobish and unnecessary, IF anything all ubi needs is
the ghosts from double agent / A voice to give new players like yourself a step by step intro so that it can be explained at your level.

I'm sorry that we all are not as smart as you recon....:(

Glad to hear that you place yourself above a "toddler with down's syndrome" on the intelligence scale. What's next? chest thumping after outrunning a 3 year old on a trike?

And I say "LIES" to your claim of being a Hardcore player...your use of l33t is minimal, you only have 6 capital letters in your tag and note nearly enough xxx's ...nice try..newb..lol

Noisewater-US
07-08-2012, 02:49 PM
If the new SvM is up to par with CT, I have some PC upgrades to make...

I wish they would release some info so I knew whether or not to start playing CT again. Gotta brush dem skills up!

braiog
07-08-2012, 08:59 PM
DA's SvM wasn't ALL bad, but too much of it was to make it a true successor to CT.

In particular, I liked the pro/con of remote hacking introduced to spies. The closer you get to the terminal (like in CT, you could be right on it), the faster the data acquisition was. But if you used a wireless hack, you had the security of not having to be directly on the terminal, but the speeds were much slower and you showed up on EMF to Mercs.

I also liked the Spy's increased acrobatic abilities within the environment. Aside from them looking ungodly ugly, the ability for them to slip through the level helps to keep them nimble and on the fly. As for Mercs, I enjoyed the additional (one way) mobility rappeling introduced, and the sprint/bullcharge was a nice addition for the ability to vacate an area as quickly as possible.

A testament to how bad DA was (or, moreso which directions it should NOT have taken the series) first and foremost came with the announcement of "HEADSHOT!" when you capped a Spy in the head while sniping. How unbelievably stupid. The removal of the taser rifles was bad as well as the restriction on only being able to carry one item type. I personally did not like the 3v3 and felt 2v2 was a lot more intimate and dynamic. Also, allowing Mercs to detect a Spy simply because it was CLOSE to them? I'd rather they use the sound metrics from CT instead. It allows stealthy Spies to be rewarded and noisy ones to be easily found (which is why I was actually a proponent of the always-on motion tracker, though it should never detect a Spy, at any speed, while crouched).

I would love to see an increase in surveillance capabilities of the Mercs, and as far as an economy goes, I think that's just going to come down to cosmetics and the like, however I won't be surprised if and when Ubisoft introduces the ability to have more powerful items down the line (whether that is the right move or not, we'd have to see)

SolidSage
07-08-2012, 10:13 PM
@Recon
People with high IQ's usually don't feel the need to brag about it or put others down to highlight the fact. I guess you're the exception to the rule sweetheart.

@All
I'd like the option to play as a Spy whenever I choose because the game was too hard before without that choice, for noobs like me that only just started playing it in PT when it first released instead of back in the day like some of the hardcore old schoolers.
Just a SUGGESTION. Breaking the law, breaking the law.

KevinPDZ0916
07-09-2012, 03:25 AM
I'll still play DA SvM when people are on.

I agree, it wasn't all bad, but not as good as PT/CT.

However, I did like the Merc sprint, rappel, the spy agility, and the data hacking. I hated the proxy detector. Why did the mercs need it anyway? It's not like the merc would not know where you were at once you were hacking a terminal.

In early concept art for DA's SvM, there is a picture of the spies wielding a sticker shocker type weapon. This was also seen in the unused multiplayer items video from beating the challenges. It's a shame because that would have balanced the playing field with the mercs knowing your position all the time.

Also, spawn killing in DA was so bad. Mercs would rush from their spawn to the spy spawn and grenade any spy they could before they got out of their base zone. And the grenades did not explode once they bounced. The grenades were only timed, and were like mini-nukes. And sometimes the game did not register the sound of them coming on your position.

Plus if the 5 vs. 5 thing turns out to be true, then Ubisoft should still take the time to port over PT/CT/DA maps and expand their sizes.

Some good remakes for 5 vs. 5 would probably be, in my opinion, Deftech, Orphanage, Vertigo Plaza, Steel Squat, River Mall, Boss House, Kinsasha, and Red Diamond

What PT / CT / DA maps would you like to see ported over to BL's SvM if you had the choice?

ReConNinJa.CF
07-09-2012, 03:44 AM
I'll still play DA SvM when people are on.

I agree, it wasn't all bad, but not as good as PT/CT.

However, I did like the Merc sprint, rappel, the spy agility, and the data hacking. I hated the proxy detector. Why did the mercs need it anyway? It's not like the merc would not know where you were at once you were hacking a terminal.

In early concept art for DA's SvM, there is a picture of the spies wielding a sticker shocker type weapon. This was also seen in the unused multiplayer items video from beating the challenges. It's a shame because that would have balanced the playing field with the mercs knowing your position all the time.

Also, spawn killing in DA was so bad. Mercs would rush from their spawn to the spy spawn and grenade any spy they could before they got out of their base zone. And the grenades did not explode once they bounced. The grenades were only timed, and were like mini-nukes. And sometimes the game did not register the sound of them coming on your position.

Plus if the 5 vs. 5 thing turns out to be true, then Ubisoft should still take the time to port over PT/CT/DA maps and expand their sizes.

Some good remakes for 5 vs. 5 would probably be, in my opinion, Deftech, Orphanage, Vertigo Plaza, Steel Squat, River Mall, Boss House, Kinsasha, and Red Diamond

What PT / CT / DA maps would you like to see ported over to BL's SvM if you had the choice?

None of them to be honest, it's bad as it already is of people just playing clubhouse ,aquarius and museum all in a spin cycle. Im more intrested in seeing the new fresh maps so people don't have strats and need to start from scratch.

Maher21
07-09-2012, 07:04 AM
I'll still play DA SvM when people are on.

I agree, it wasn't all bad, but not as good as PT/CT.

However, I did like the Merc sprint, rappel, the spy agility, and the data hacking. I hated the proxy detector. Why did the mercs need it anyway? It's not like the merc would not know where you were at once you were hacking a terminal.

In early concept art for DA's SvM, there is a picture of the spies wielding a sticker shocker type weapon. This was also seen in the unused multiplayer items video from beating the challenges. It's a shame because that would have balanced the playing field with the mercs knowing your position all the time.

Also, spawn killing in DA was so bad. Mercs would rush from their spawn to the spy spawn and grenade any spy they could before they got out of their base zone. And the grenades did not explode once they bounced. The grenades were only timed, and were like mini-nukes. And sometimes the game did not register the sound of them coming on your position.

Plus if the 5 vs. 5 thing turns out to be true, then Ubisoft should still take the time to port over PT/CT/DA maps and expand their sizes.

Some good remakes for 5 vs. 5 would probably be, in my opinion, Deftech, Orphanage, Vertigo Plaza, Steel Squat, River Mall, Boss House, Kinsasha, and Red Diamond

What PT / CT / DA maps would you like to see ported over to BL's SvM if you had the choice?

About the spawn killing, I never understood why they allowed the mercs to reload on grenades. That and the fact that there were no mines or spy traps to setup, there was no reason why a merc shouldn't just start spamming grenades at the beginning of a match.

Oh yeah, the stupid proxy sensor really killed all tension in that game IMO. However, I did love the spy's agility and escape moves. The challenges and the fact there were bots was nice

Champ 721
07-10-2012, 04:05 AM
As soon as I heard that Spies vs Mercs was coming back, I nearly jumped out of my chair in excitement. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not extremely skeptical due to terrible, in my opinion, changes to the single player in Conviction and this. I have the utmost faith in Ubisoft's ability to absolutely ruin Spies vs Merc. What they need to do is start with a carbon copy of Chaos Theory, then put in a few of the features from Double Agent like the nimbleness of the spies and the mercs' rappelling abilities and such. Keep out stupid stuff like 5v5 (PLEASE), the proximity detector, and things of that nature.

lordghali1
07-10-2012, 05:45 AM
I have had many angry thought moments to Ubisoft because of their handling of spy vs merc mode.... how it was soiled after chaos theory... TO THIS DAY ,,, THERE IS NO GAME THAT HAS DUPLICATED THE FEELINGS THAT WERE BROUGHT OUT BY THAT MODE.... it was a PERFECT game for online multiplayer ..... {I'm getting angry now writing this .... by the way I never write blogs or forums ... but i was looking to see if i could find any info of blacklist multiplayer and came across this.....} I too would still be playing the chaos theory multiplayer .... all they would have to do is ........ ok let me let you in on my dream..... are you ready.. :) :) they release all the boards from pandora and chaos multiplayer as a old xbox arcade purchase ., so they could still have the way your voice would cut out to your partner when you were being killed ,, or the other player could say something to you before they killed you...... IIIIIIIIIII WOULD GLADLY PAY $1000 IF THEY WOULD REOPEN THE SERVERS ON THE XBOX FORMAT..................AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!! WHY DID YOU CHANGE IT .... WE WERE GROWN UP GAMERS THAT YOU TREATED TO HEAVEN AND THEN YOU TOOK IT AWAY..... at this moment I dislike ubisoft.... they truly seem to not care about what they did .. nor understand the ramifications of creating something and then taking it away ..... REOPEN THE SERVERS ......... and for those of you who will say the play this on xfire or what ever ...... i'm not a computer gamer nor a hacker to set that junk up ................... :( ........ they truly do not know how to treat their customers ........ YOU HERE ME OUT THERE !!!!! UBISOFT EXECS........YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS .......AHHH THIS IS A WASTE OF TIME I HOPE YOU GUYS THAT CHANGED THE GAME GET BAD KARMA BECAUSE YOU DESERVE IT ......

DrCactus
07-10-2012, 01:57 PM
I'll be brief due to the formating issues I have in my posts. It doesn't register paragraphs... what a pain. Anyway, old maps should not be ported over if there are any game play changes. There'd be too many issues with balance. Focus on new maps. 8 maps would be good for release. Remove the proximity detector from DA and you might have yourself a great game again. IF 5v5 is made, be aware of the lone wolf syndrome. Not everyone will enjoy playing as a team. A varied team approach like 2 spies 3 mercs would be doable as long as the levels are large enough, and spies have options in vents.

reddragonhrcro
07-10-2012, 05:32 PM
I'll be brief due to the formating issues I have in my posts. It doesn't register paragraphs... what a pain. Anyway, old maps should not be ported over if there are any game play changes. There'd be too many issues with balance. Focus on new maps. 8 maps would be good for release. Remove the proximity detector from DA and you might have yourself a great game again. IF 5v5 is made, be aware of the lone wolf syndrome. Not everyone will enjoy playing as a team. A varied team approach like 2 spies 3 mercs would be doable as long as the levels are large enough, and spies have options in vents.

Well in any case "lonewolf" was rather an improvement that something negative if you ended up with a bad team.That was a huge drawback in CT as it was totaly based around cooperating.

Say hi to Lone Wolf
http://www.gombango.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/bg_modechara_uss_03.jpg

KevinPDZ0916
07-11-2012, 01:22 AM
I did like the 3 vs 3 b/c of that concept where if your CT partner sucked, then you were screwed. With 3 vs. 3 you had a better chance of winning. But even with CT, your partner could still be a lone wolf if he wanted to be. So you will still have spies that want to be go alone on the mission, and some that will cooperate.

I have cooperated with DA players, but we have less of luck dominating the mercs b/c of the proxy detector. I think if they brought back the classic CT story mode (or something that worked) with 5 vs. 5 instead of the terminal hacking gameplay, I think cooperation would be better. I think hacking terminals from anywhere gave the spies (and especially newcomers) a chance to get into the game, but if you can hack a terminal from a distance, you are less likely to cooperate with your teammates than if you had to hack a computer right in front. Plus the agile spies in DA also made the lone wolf concept much easier to happen.

I do believe the new SvM will have something involved gameplay wise with the campaign footage. I do expect the cover system to be implemented for spies. The only way I can see M&E being incorporated into it is if the mercs had A.I. bots alongside of them. The spies would be able to M&E the A.I. bots, but not the human mercs. Like how there will be X's over people you couldn't M&E in Conviction. I just think if you have 5 vs. 5 and have huge maps, then there might be A.I. bots patrolling some of the areas that you have to infiltrate. I don't know. I'm just trying to really think of how they could use the blacklist gameplay in SvM because I'm sure Ubisoft is going to keep it similar.

Hopefully they do not make mercs in third person. I will be completely shocked if they make the single player and co-op the same, and surprise us with the potential 5 vs. 5 CT style SvM. I think of it like DA. DA's MP was nothing like the single player. It was a separate experience. So why can't they do that same thing for blacklist?

lordghali1
07-11-2012, 03:54 AM
I still say the format of old should return, it was made to be played with a friend you could count on .... if you were stuck playing with an unknown team mate , well those were the breaks ..... if only they would give us multiple ways to play multiplayer , and let us choose which we wished to play.
People have different tastes and different likes, that will never change. To do away with a format that worked for a fair sized following, was shameful . They really ripped out the hearts of a bunch of dedicated fans. I wish they would read some of these posts . if your reading ubisoft .... reactivate the Arcade version of chaos theory PLEASE!!!! charge us again for it .... PLEASE

SolidSage
07-11-2012, 05:34 AM
I don't really care about team sizing..3v3, 5v5, 1v6, whatever the specific mode demands/offers, but I DO care about playing as a Spy. Character classes should be selectable similar to how Ghost Recon or Assassin's Creed MP offers. Then we could get a team with 2 Spies and 3 Mercs vs a team of 5 Spies or any variation of the Player total...5 Spies v 5 Mercs, 4 Mercs v 6 Mercs, 3 SPIES v 3 Spies.

Hopefully the move sets will be fluid like Conviction, and the maps will be good, and balancing as well as match making will be high quality. Creed and GRFS MP's were good so I expect this one to be as well.

CoolBrinkman
07-11-2012, 06:57 AM
All these talks of 3v3 and 5v5 are nonsense! It must return to 2v2 the way it began for the sake of environment. It allowed you to be mentally immersed into the action of the game.
It made you anxious about what each game would bring. You didn't know if you were going to be matched against elite mercs or just be stuck with a new spy, and that caused alot of tension. With 2v2, you could actually be worried about what was around a corner, whereas with 3v3 you always had 2 other guys watching your back.

I feel the 2v2 allowed a special setting where if your teammate was preoccupied with an opponent, you were on your own; either to save him or run for your life. With 3v3 I felt there was always a shootout, never a strategy.

DrCactus
07-11-2012, 06:17 PM
Good point coolBrinkman. The tension is what made CT/PT great, and as CoolBrinkman indicates, it wasn't really there in DA. Tension, suspence and vulnerability is what made SvM so different from all other multiplayers. I find when playing AC Multiplayer the tension isn't as strong. While it's a very good Cat and Mouse game. It was never close to that of SvM. With the increase of duck and cover mechanics and new stealth games coming out by other companies, it would be wise for UBISOFT to stick with the multiplayer that set new boundries. A mix of DA and CT seems to be the consensous so far. New modes in SvM I would be interested in would be a redifined version of DM - only because people will play it. A proper version of a game of Tag where Spies are actually against eachother and the merc tries to kill them. Not the stupid Deathmatch version. A modified version of Disk Hunt - no idea on details. And the possibility of Random targets or Seek and Capture - where like the normal mode, but spies don't know which version of the map they'll get. Or perhaps different difficulities of the maps for different experienced spies. Or just more options like secure all points, not just x out of z. Variations of the same but it'll seem new and make the game last longer. Thoughts?

KevinPDZ0916
07-11-2012, 07:28 PM
Keep a look out for this month's GameInformer and UK version of Official Xbox Magazine. Each of them have articles / cover stories on Splinter Cell Blacklist. If any new info about SvM is in those magazines, that would be great.

Oh My Godmode
07-11-2012, 11:37 PM
If we can get the fluid spy motion of DA, the gadgets and multi objectives of CT, I"d be so happy. 2v2 is preferable, of course. :)

DrCactus
07-12-2012, 06:12 PM
As this is the 3rd most viewed thread non-stickied I think it merits to be either stickied on stay on the first page. So with that, I'd like to mention that as a new sound detection possiblity would be to have a slot for a transmitter detection as a Merc. Equiped or placed it could act just like a remote microphone which picks up the voice chat of the spies. Just like the zoomed scope, but have it be an actual device. That way communications could be heard while in movement and not just scoped. It was always fun to hear the spies chatting away, and then hear them swear when shot at. This way you can hear their plans, when not in visiual sight. Over powered? Useless? You have better new gadget?

KevinPDZ0916
07-12-2012, 06:50 PM
Good point coolBrinkman. The tension is what made CT/PT great, and as CoolBrinkman indicates, it wasn't really there in DA. Tension, suspence and vulnerability is what made SvM so different from all other multiplayers. I find when playing AC Multiplayer the tension isn't as strong. While it's a very good Cat and Mouse game. It was never close to that of SvM. With the increase of duck and cover mechanics and new stealth games coming out by other companies, it would be wise for UBISOFT to stick with the multiplayer that set new boundries. A mix of DA and CT seems to be the consensous so far. New modes in SvM I would be interested in would be a redifined version of DM - only because people will play it. A proper version of a game of Tag where Spies are actually against eachother and the merc tries to kill them. Not the stupid Deathmatch version. A modified version of Disk Hunt - no idea on details. And the possibility of Random targets or Seek and Capture - where like the normal mode, but spies don't know which version of the map they'll get. Or perhaps different difficulities of the maps for different experienced spies. Or just more options like secure all points, not just x out of z. Variations of the same but it'll seem new and make the game last longer. Thoughts?

I do agree with you that CT had a lot of suspension and tension than DA. Heck, the spawn killing in DA even shattered tension in the first fifteen seconds. I just played a game last night of 2 vs 2 on DA, and the mercs just naded our spawn and killed me three times doing it, too. It was ridiculous.

Anyways, I still think there was some tension in DA. Obviously, much of it was gone with that proxy detector. But there was tension and heart-pounding moments for me, especially when I was close to downloading the complete file and when you are anxiously trying to extract the file in time.

There was one game where I downloaded the complete file with one minute left on boss house. And I raced back to the spawn point, so fast. But the mercs were stationed where that zip line is at the end of the map, so I just took a risk and took the zip line. They tried nading me and missled, but I still got to extract the last file. My heart was seriously pounding the whole way through.

But I hated the gadget selection. The whole point of DA was to bring new people into the multiplayer. While they still had some good ideas to it and different suspense moments, they should have added those good ideas in their CT gameplay, I feel.

drewbreees
07-13-2012, 04:36 AM
All these talks of 3v3 and 5v5 are nonsense! It must return to 2v2 the way it began for the sake of environment. It allowed you to be mentally immersed into the action of the game.
It made you anxious about what each game would bring. You didn't know if you were going to be matched against elite mercs or just be stuck with a new spy, and that caused alot of tension. With 2v2, you could actually be worried about what was around a corner, whereas with 3v3 you always had 2 other guys watching your back.

I feel the 2v2 allowed a special setting where if your teammate was preoccupied with an opponent, you were on your own; either to save him or run for your life. With 3v3 I felt there was always a shootout, never a strategy.

Completely agree and I'll expand a bit on the 2v2 vs 3v3: I've seen a lot of people argue that the 3v3 in DA sort of mitigated the random teammate factor, where if your partner was garbage or didn't talk on xbox live, you had a 3rd person to potentially make up for it. I disagree: communication and coordination was really vital in PT and CT and for players that don't have a steady or regular partner, it's significantly easier to play with only one random teammate than it is with two others.

The_5_Freedoms
07-13-2012, 01:56 PM
I want to know how they'll implement Mark & Execute and Last Known Position.

DrCactus
07-13-2012, 04:42 PM
I don't think Mark & Execute works well for multiplayer. It's litterally, kill one guy, then auto aim/kill the others for the win. It's too overpowered for multiplayer. For the last known postion, well again, that's for the player to know that the AI has seen you. This shouldn't be available in mulitplayer. Deception and out right ignoring players is part of multiplayer. I can't count how many times I've pretended not to see a spy in order to lure him to secure the kill. Having the computer indicate that i have seen him seems a step back.

SolidSage
07-13-2012, 05:43 PM
I can't see M&E being used in MP unless there are AI like in SCC's Spy vs Spy.
LKP? Maybe.

Champ 721
07-13-2012, 09:47 PM
Mark & Execute makes no sense in SvM. Spies shouldn't be able to kill anyone with a gun to begin with, let alone insta-kill someone. Last known position doesn't make much sense either since the game can't possibly detect whether or not a human player has seen a spy. The only way they could reasonably do it is if a spy ends up in a merc's flashlight, but that would be completely useless.

braiog
07-13-2012, 11:51 PM
Ubisoft is notorious for 3 things:

1. Not doing more than 1-3 patches of a game post-release (often providing "fixes" for only a handful of low-priority problems
2. They release PC versions 3 months later than console (time used to port the game over. Ubi has done this for years, PCs get hand-me-downs)
3. They never listed to what the community wants. Rather than give them a base game that is an extension of what the community loved and then just modify it slightly (Look at how well that's doing for their Assassin's Creed series), they instead always go creative Rambo on the series and make massive sweeping changes.

SvM was a jaw-droppingly amazing multiplayer mode; the likes of which I've never seen before or since. Since its release, its never gotten the attention it deserves, and I think it'll just be in for another round of the same. Sadly, Ubi will pimp it, port it, patch it and then just let it stagnate.

How amazing would this game be if it was married to the updating and content-rich nature that Valve was known for? Ubi should develop SvM as a standalone MP product and give it the Valve treatment. They just need to stick to the core mechanics that we loved about SvM. Cat and Mouse. Spy Tech vs. Merc Power. Light and Shadow play.

And for the love of all that is holy, develop the game so there are no netcode/hosting issues. It was sad to see 2v2 and 3v3 games have so much synchronization issues. Give this game mode the love and attention it deserves.

Dieinthedark
07-13-2012, 11:56 PM
Quick off topic - Speaking of Valve, Clint Hocking just went from LucasArts to there! I think that may be interesting....


Carry on :cool:

KevinPDZ0916
07-14-2012, 09:07 AM
Yah, I don't see how M&E and Last Known Position would work against human players in multiplayer. I believe it would only work for AI characters, which is why it is no problem being in Co-op and Spy vs. Spy in SCC. Either Ubisoft has turned SvM into a action shooter mayhem, or both features are not included, or human spies will fight human mercenaries and AI mercenaries, thus allowing at least M&E to be used on the AI and not the human mercenaries... but even then that idea sounds terrible.

I expect Ubisoft to reveal SvM in the new gameplay style of Blacklist (obviously with the character movements and the camera angles, cover system.. etc...) but in what ways they do it will be interesting to see.

The reason it was not included in SCC was because they did not have time to make it work with the new mechanics. Then in a later interview they said that SvM would have to work with the new mechanics to be in the game. They have have had over two years now. They listened to the fans, they say. Whether they are bringing CT or DA or a CT/DA hybrid gameplay style of SvM remains to be seen. However, if it is designed with the Blacklist mechanics, it will surely be different than anything we have come to expect from SvM. The 2-10 players referring to a potential 5 vs. 5 SvM listing on Xbox Live Marketplace is already puzzling enough! Unless SvM is not the only multiplayer mode besides co-op?

I just hope Ubisoft does not screw it up. I'm just worried that if SvM is bad or does not meet the fan's expectations, then it will drop dead in community within a few weeks to a month. DA was like that. For two weeks it was the #1 Xbox 360 game on Xbox Live and then it dropped severely in player count.

And I want to know when they will show SvM off. Most magazines will have the single player E3 information, probably with exclusive screens / info / interviews that we have not seen or heard of, but i doubt any SvM related news will come out until at least September through December.

But the game director said in his interview with Sneaky Bastards that they have to let people know what they are doing on the multiplayer side, too. So it can't be far too off, right?

Timid_Panda
07-14-2012, 09:11 AM
Ah... painful reading the whole thread to find that no one knows anything -_-

KevinPDZ0916
07-14-2012, 09:28 AM
That's because Ubisoft is keeping quiet about it like it's some big secret. Apparently, the announcement was enough for the fans. Interestingly, new stuff for Blacklist has not really surfaced so much in terms of new information, screenshots, or videos of the stealththrough of the E3 demo, the extended demo, night missions, or multiplayer since E3. It's kind of odd because you would think they would want to keep the community and new fans of it hyped after E3. A steady stream of new stuff per month is a way to do that. I don't know what other video game events there are until next year, but I assume new stuff will be revealed then, even with SvM.

Timid_Panda
07-14-2012, 09:52 AM
That's because Ubisoft is keeping quiet about it like it's some big secret. Apparently, the announcement was enough for the fans. Interestingly, new stuff for Blacklist has not really surfaced so much in terms of new information, screenshots, or videos of the stealththrough of the E3 demo, the extended demo, night missions, or multiplayer since E3. It's kind of odd because you would think they would want to keep the community and new fans of it hyped after E3. A steady stream of new stuff per month is a way to do that. I don't know what other video game events there are until next year, but I assume new stuff will be revealed then, even with SvM.

I saw an interview where it was stated that "SvM will be back". Since then I've been able to find no information except for the team size might be 2-10 players, which is the complete opposite of what I wanted to hear.

KevinPDZ0916
07-14-2012, 04:50 PM
I think it's what most of us did not want to hear, especially us veterans of PT/CT SvM. I mean, the 3 vs. 3 in DA wasn't bad, it did not have that personal feel to it when you had one co-op partner. But 5 vs. 5 could either mean more action than stealth gameplay, and larger size maps than DA. I don't know. I hate it how they have not showed us anything yet, because all we have to theorize now is nothing except the announcement, what the gameplay could potentially be like, and the listing of 2-10 players. But that's about it.

CoolBrinkman
07-15-2012, 05:12 AM
I believe it would be in the best interest of Ubisoft if they would release a small one-map SvM demo before releasing the full game, just to reassure gamers that the TRUE SvM is back. I have no doubt that there will be tons of people withholding their release-day buys and pre-orders because of the atrocity that happened by not releasing SvM last time. I pre-ordered SCDA knowing that SvM was returning but I certainly held my ground in not picking up Conviction until the rumors were confirmed. Needless to say it was a no-buy for me.

braiog
07-15-2012, 08:32 PM
I hope they don't integrate SC:BL into Uplay.

After having tons of times when the server is not available to authenticate you (leaving you unable to play even a singleplayer mode of a game), its now gone so far as to change my password on me, requiring me to change it (which is a PAINFUL process) Ubi's secure.ubi.com website is constantly timing out, and after trying for an hour to get the page to come up and change the password, I submitted the request and have been waiting HOURS for it to get to my inbox.

Pitiful.

Jakeman2006
07-15-2012, 08:55 PM
I hope they don't integrate SC:BL into Uplay.

After having tons of times when the server is not available to authenticate you (leaving you unable to play even a singleplayer mode of a game), its now gone so far as to change my password on me, requiring me to change it (which is a PAINFUL process) Ubi's secure.ubi.com website is constantly timing out, and after trying for an hour to get the page to come up and change the password, I submitted the request and have been waiting HOURS for it to get to my inbox.

Pitiful.

Sad as it seems, it probably will be.

Andre202
07-15-2012, 09:03 PM
The thing is The UbiLauncher times out most likely because of the Steam Summer Sales and guess what is still working? Steam itself that has no problems having 4 Million users constantly buying, downloading and playing games.

SolidSage
07-16-2012, 09:40 PM
We have to assume that the new SvM is going to use the new code set for movement, actions and interactions right? I have said previously in the SCC thread that I think they could make a very compelling SvM and have it be quite similar to legacy SvM using the SCC code base. If the outfitting of the character affected the skill sets and WHAT the character could do you could basically use the one character build.
SO armor, weapon and gadget restrictions and allowances would inhibit abilities like climbing or damage retention etc.

I know almost everyone wants a FP Merc like Legacy, and SCC does have the FP mode for scoping so I am almost sure that will be available, but I truly hope that a third person perspective is available also. And if not, then the option to play as a SPy on the Merc team and therby get my third person need fulfilled.

I think it would be great to have mixed teams, even on a 2v2 level. Although the option to adjust team sizes to whatever specific desire the lobby has would also be great.

C'mon with some SvM intel UbiTor!! :)

Andre202
07-16-2012, 09:46 PM
I actually thought the fluidity would fit to Spy vs Mercs which makes the mode even better when having the basic code from SCC, because the thing I like about SCDA's MP mode is the movement. It is pretty fluid and other then that the animations itself sometimes look awkward but I only saw people complaining about the gameplay rather then the movement. So I think people would be pretty much okay with that.

SolidSage
07-16-2012, 09:49 PM
Cool. I didn't touch DA's SvM but I seem to have heard the same thing, that the Spy was more athletic. I'm really interested to see what they've done with this mode using the SCC code base. I'm hoping to get into it this time.

Oh My Godmode
07-17-2012, 03:43 AM
Literally the only thing that Double Agent did better than Chaos Theory in terms of MP was spy movement, and even then it's only the athletic abilities that made the movement better. I like the idea of hacking a terminal from a short distance, however I don't like not having more than one victory condition. Bomb, disk, terminal, or killing the merc was awesome. Many CT vets can tell you about times when they won by sneaking to a terminal and taking advantage of a lazy merc. Or being on their last life, disk on hip, making a mad dash for a drop point. Or setting a bomb to draw the mercs away so your teammate could finish a heavily guarded terminal that's only needs 2 more seconds.

I've said many times and will continue to say it: If Blacklist combines the athleticism of the DA spies with the gadgets/game play or Chaos Theory, it would be a perfect game.

DrCactus
07-17-2012, 04:35 AM
I've said many times and will continue to say it: If Blacklist combines the athleticism of the DA spies with the gadgets/game play or Chaos Theory, it would be a perfect game.

^This 2 million percent.

However, I wouldn't immediately reject the mixed team idea as fast as I would the M&E. The mixed team concept would be possible if the maps were large enough and had proper play mechanics for when spies met each other. I'm not sure how the spy vs spy adaptation was, as I didn't play it but as long as it was fluid and made sense I'd be up for it. Again it comes down to balanced game play.

With mixed teams, you'd need to have a reason for mercs not to just run around playing CoD. That would be my problem. It was a problem with PT, which is why they made a deathmatch mode for CT. People just like doing pointless things. To avoid this issue, one option would be during objective play, only the spies able to complete them. The maps would have to be large enough that immediate contact/support from other mercs would be limited. This would again require balance as undoubtedly, Mercs wouldn't just stay and defend the objectives. they wander into enemy territory and kill the mercs first to increase the chance of the spies. A good tactic but would require massive balance to prevent CoD. and then just spy vs spy.

The more I type, the more interested i am in the mixed team concept. It could work, but the maps would have to be designed so that it would discourage Merc on Merc fighting. Still have it available but to a clear disadvantage.

I fear we won't hear anything until Q3 starts, and then maybe more once Q4 hits. From the sounds of things. Ubi wants to release Blacklist this year in Q4. Almost the same thing they did with DA.

Champ 721
07-17-2012, 05:22 AM
I know almost everyone wants a FP Merc like Legacy, and SCC does have the FP mode for scoping so I am almost sure that will be available, but I truly hope that a third person perspective is available also. And if not, then the option to play as a SPy on the Merc team and therby get my third person need fulfilled.

I think it would be great to have mixed teams, even on a 2v2 level..

No. Just no. For the love of God, no.

Let me explain why this is a bad idea. For the idea of third person mercs: umm, why is this even necessary for one? Vision modes would look really awkward, sneaking up on mercs would be a lot harder because they can see a little behind them, and it would just block visual awareness to an extent.

As for mixed teams, do you have any idea how hard that would make balancing map design? The maps as of now in past SvM are all designed for infiltration from one point. If you had spies on either team, all the maps would have to be symmetrical, at least to an extent. It's just a bad idea.


Literally the only thing that Double Agent did better than Chaos Theory in terms of MP was spy movement, and even then it's only the athletic abilities that made the movement better. I like the idea of hacking a terminal from a short distance, however I don't like not having more than one victory condition. Bomb, disk, terminal, or killing the merc was awesome. Many CT vets can tell you about times when they won by sneaking to a terminal and taking advantage of a lazy merc. Or being on their last life, disk on hip, making a mad dash for a drop point. Or setting a bomb to draw the mercs away so your teammate could finish a heavily guarded terminal that's only needs 2 more seconds.

I've said many times and will continue to say it: If Blacklist combines the athleticism of the DA spies with the gadgets/game play or Chaos Theory, it would be a perfect game.
Agreed completely.

SolidSage
07-17-2012, 10:35 PM
No. Just no. For the love of God, no.

Let me explain why this is a bad idea. For the idea of third person mercs: umm, why is this even necessary for one? Vision modes would look really awkward, sneaking up on mercs would be a lot harder because they can see a little behind them, and it would just block visual awareness to an extent.

True but with Spies moving as well as they did in SCC, seeing a little bit behind you isn't going to be enough to save you. In spite of this though, I am not saying it would be a better adaption of SvM, I am purely speaking from a personal preference for 3rd P and an absolute distaste for FP....I just can't dig it.


As for mixed teams, do you have any idea how hard that would make balancing map design? The maps as of now in past SvM are all designed for infiltration from one point. If you had spies on either team, all the maps would have to be symmetrical, at least to an extent. It's just a bad idea.

Again, you may be right but I abhorred being FORCED into a role. I play SC to play as a Spy and most of the time in SvM players keep leaving until they can be a Spy so you waste a bunch of time trying to get in a game and usually have to accept getting shafted with the Merc. It is my opinion that allowing players to choose a Class like GRFS is much more suitable, and as seen in that game's MP, the class mixing doesn't really detract from game play at all, it adds to it. The Maps aren't symmetrical either but I hear what ou are saying. It's certainly not something that the Dev teams couldn't over come I'm sure.
I disagree with you that it's a bad idea, I think you mean it's an idea that you think would be bad for you, which is fair enough.
I think it's a good idea, especially considering that a larger player base has to be an objective here. SCC adopted the aggro action quite well, so a Merc that played like the aggressive version of a Spy in SCC would be appealing to me. But of course there would be need for limitations and advantages to each class.
Spy v Spy in SCC wasn't fleshed out much, as a mode. The controls and everything, the head to head, all matched up with standard SCC game play, so there were no problems there, but it was 1v1 which wasn't exciting much and didn't have any real specific mode settings. At best it was a competition to see who could kill most AI...no hacking or data thievery going on.

You don't like the idea of an enemy Spy being able to follow you up into Spy only areas and duke it out with you? I think that would be great.

DrCactus
07-18-2012, 01:11 AM
Here's the important part from the Interview from Game Informer:

"I know the focus at E3 is on single-player. Is there anything you can tell me about what you guys are doing with cooperative or competitive multiplayer stuff?

Well, Conviction added amazing co-op, so we're embracing that. So it's going to be even cooler. And then spy vs. mercs was the number one requested thing from Conviction, so that's coming back. I think what's cool with it, what I'm allowed to say today is the idea that we're going to have to cross-pollinate, so regardless of what you're playing, whether is cooperative, adversarial, this is always a game about Sam. Sam's going to be making the money. The money goes toward Fourth Echelon and you can spend that money on Sam, on some co-op stuff, on some adversarial stuff. And that money is buying new weapons, upgrading new weapons, buying gadgets, upgrading gadgets, upgrading Fourth Echelon, so you're going to be upgrading the plane, and that's going to have some gameplay repercussions. And, also, Sam's tactical suit. I think that's super cool because it's not just a cosmetic choice for the suit. It's also linked with gameplay, so if you want to play more action, you can put on a bigger bulletproof vest. If you want to play more stealth, you can go a little bit lighter, be a little bit faster, or add boots that allow you to make less noise when you're navigating."

I'll Tear it apart in another post.

DrCactus
07-18-2012, 01:20 AM
:

"I know the focus at E3 is on single-player. Is there anything you can tell me about what you guys are doing with cooperative or competitive multiplayer stuff?

Well, Conviction added amazing co-op, so we're embracing that. So it's going to be even cooler. And then spy vs. mercs was the number one requested thing from Conviction, so that's coming back. I think what's cool with it, what I'm allowed to say today is the idea that we're going to have to cross-pollinate, so regardless of what you're playing, whether is cooperative, adversarial, this is always a game about Sam.

No idea really what he's mentioning here but alludes to it futher:


Sam's going to be making the money. The money goes toward Fourth Echelon and you can spend that money on Sam, on some co-op stuff, on some adversarial stuff. And that money is buying new weapons, upgrading new weapons, buying gadgets, upgrading gadgets, upgrading Fourth Echelon,

I gather that as you play in any mode, you accumulate money which will help you buy stuff in those game modes ie: Adversial SvM. that's cool and expected as most games now have things that help keep players playing. Case in point: Assassin's Creed mulitplayer does it. Still no information about SvM.


so you're going to be upgrading the plane, and that's going to have some gameplay repercussions. And, also, Sam's tactical suit. I think that's super cool because it's not just a cosmetic choice for the suit. It's also linked with gameplay, so if you want to play more action, you can put on a bigger bulletproof vest. If you want to play more stealth, you can go a little bit lighter, be a little bit faster, or add boots that allow you to make less noise when you're navigating."

Oh good. he didn't really answer the question. Essentially there's the ability to upgrade weapons.

SolidSage
07-18-2012, 04:42 AM
I read it finally.

I know for a fact that co-op is going to be WAY cooler but that's all I am saying (lest I be discharged from SC fandom forever). I can't wait to see the other ways they have improved it, along with SvM's integration.

Sounds like they are increasing the depth of suit upgrades, and the bit about stealthier boots and a bigger bullet proof vest makes me wonder if they really listened to our other thread where we suggested creating the Spy and the Merc from the same character base, but altering abilities based on the weapons and gear that were chosen OR mandatory depending on class.

What if they really went the hole hog with what we said and allow for a sliding scale of character abilities based on a truly variable pack out and XP expenditure? So YOUR character could be oriented specifically closer to Ghost, Panther or Action (full on Merc) styling. Rather than an SvM game based on the duality of two easily identifiable classes it could allow for a varied character set.
I know classic SvM fans might not dig it but they could still have their pure character set, while other players could have adjusted character sets. Choice.
I suppose it would spoil your game if I didn't play as a specific type of character though?

Anyway, we'll find out in due time.

KevinPDZ0916
07-18-2012, 01:13 PM
I liked how in the first question of the Gameinformer interview, Maxime acknowledged that from his stats, the first priority change to the game was incorporating spies vs. mercs. I don't think they are going light on spies vs. mercs. I think they are going all out on it. The news story stating that Ubisoft Shangai and Montreal were working underneath Toronto helps with creating all these modes and a bigger game than Conviction in the two year span that they have been developing this game on.

As for SvM, what I get from this interview is that:

The same code for gameplay for Blacklist campaign will most likely be used for SvM. We are able to customize our suit / gadgets / weapons / abilities. We can make ourselves more stealthy or action oriented even in SvM. Especially if the gameplay is like the campaign demo, this would make sense.

I still love how they avoid the question about SvM. The common answer has usually always been about the economy system. The only REAL detail we know is the most obvious: the spies will be in third person. lol. That's all they could give us, according to a interview from Gamespot.com

Oh My Godmode
07-18-2012, 06:31 PM
.

You don't like the idea of an enemy Spy being able to follow you up into Spy only areas and duke it out with you? I think that would be great.

No, I don't like that idea. It takes away from the essence of the spy. It would kill the whole Cat and Mouse feel that was originally in the series. I want to get away. I want to go hide in nearly inaccessible spots.

Mostly, I want to avoid a button mash fest like the SvS was when it came out.

SolidSage
07-18-2012, 08:46 PM
^ Well I only thought the button mash fest occurred when both Spies were trying to CQC each other, but I do hear you on that note. I used to try the baseball slide to knock them over first (works wonders on the AI) but the CQC button would always over ride that method. So yes, some more intricate interaction controls would be swell in that regard.
I love the idea of Spy on Spy if it was fully realized. Can you imagine a Knife/CQC only match, be chasing each other all over the pipes and ledges and stuff, have some sweet reversals/counter moves, choke each other out but have the opportunity to break a choke. Those things interest me.

If the map was big enough the cat and mouse would still work. Probably wouldn't pan out so well with 2v2.

How do you feel about your character being neither pure Spy or Merc (well, you could have a pure one if you so chose) but a hybrid character that you develop with XP?
I think you are probably like most classic SvM fans and pretty rigid about the whole Spy versus Merc set up. I don't mean that offensively, I just get the feeling that any deviation from the original builds isn't going to sit well with that demographic.

sameer_monier
07-18-2012, 08:56 PM
^^ and here is the thing, I don't think the devs will make CT Spy vs Merc. I don't know, I think they will try to innovate, include different stuff, add new features, ............etc, I don't know if that will set well with the fans who want the same exact mode.

Oh My Godmode
07-19-2012, 12:51 AM
^ Well I only thought the button mash fest occurred when both Spies were trying to CQC each other, but I do hear you on that note. I used to try the baseball slide to knock them over first (works wonders on the AI) but the CQC button would always over ride that method. So yes, some more intricate interaction controls would be swell in that regard.
I love the idea of Spy on Spy if it was fully realized. Can you imagine a Knife/CQC only match, be chasing each other all over the pipes and ledges and stuff, have some sweet reversals/counter moves, choke each other out but have the opportunity to break a choke. Those things interest me.

If the map was big enough the cat and mouse would still work. Probably wouldn't pan out so well with 2v2.

How do you feel about your character being neither pure Spy or Merc (well, you could have a pure one if you so chose) but a hybrid character that you develop with XP?
I think you are probably like most classic SvM fans and pretty rigid about the whole Spy versus Merc set up. I don't mean that offensively, I just get the feeling that any deviation from the original builds isn't going to sit well with that demographic.

One of the main complaints that people had about PT and CT people had were that the spies were too good at aggro. To an extent, I agree. However, nerfing the spies as they were in DA is atrocious. There are basic things and abilities that the spies should have. Being able to effectively practice stealth is one of them. Allowing a an opposing member to follow you into the places that you're supposed to be "safe" effectively nullifies a basic attribute of playing as a spy. It kills the appeal of being the mouse.

The spies should absolutely have defensive abilities, as well. They should have the ability to practice calculated plans of attacked that is backed by superior surveillance abilities. They should have a non-lethal weapon (the sticky shocker) and advanced technology (Sticky Cams). The grenades should make a return, as well. And we should be able to load out however we feel with up to 4 gadgets. However, I do not feel like being able to be Stealth, Aggro Stealth or Aggro should be an option. I think the Mercs should have raw firepower and brute force. The Spies should have cunning and finesse.

I'd like all of those things built upon the CT idea of gameplay. I loved the fluid motion and athletic abilities of DA spies. I liked the firepower of the Mercs in DA. I think the Mercs should have spy trackers and frags and trip mines and back packs. They should be able to have these at all times. I think they should be able to choose weapons, a la CT. The always on motion, which isn't my favorite thing, should stay. The EMF shouldn't blur whenever you move. The Mercs should NEVER have a proximity detector. If anything, the Spies should have the prox detector, or at the very least a heart beat monitor like CT.


^^ and here is the thing, I don't think the devs will make CT Spy vs Merc. I don't know, I think they will try to innovate, include different stuff, add new features, ............etc, I don't know if that will set well with the fans who want the same exact mode.

I don't want CT. I want a worth successor that still feels like SvM. Real SvM that adheres to the ideas established with PT and further explored in CT. There is a happy, VERY happy, compromise here that I fully feel can be reached. I don't know if it ever will, though...

sameer_monier
07-19-2012, 12:58 AM
I don't want CT. I want a worth successor that still feels like SvM. Real SvM that adheres to the ideas established with PT and further explored in CT. There is a happy, VERY happy, compromise here that I fully feel can be reached. I don't know if it ever will, though...
We will see how SCB handle that, soon I hope.

KevinPDZ0916
07-19-2012, 12:43 PM
^^ and here is the thing, I don't think the devs will make CT Spy vs Merc. I don't know, I think they will try to innovate, include different stuff, add new features, ............etc, I don't know if that will set well with the fans who want the same exact mode.

Exactly. I'm sure it won't be the same mode. I thought it was going to be, but the more I thought about it... they have a new code, different gameplay features, etc. They just announced spies vs. mercs. They did not announce PT / CT spies vs. mercs. It is always possible that the mode will be entierly on its own, just like DA's compared to its single player. However, it will most likely be tied to the single player aspect of things. And there could very well be third person perspective gameplay for the mercenaries.

Remember, Maxine did say in a SCC interview about SvM that he could not envision Mercs like Sam's AI enemies up against Spies like Sam Fisher. And he said that with the new mechanics like Last Known Position and M&E, they would not work well with SvM. And then he said that if SvM were to be in Conviction for post DLC (at the time of the interview) that it would HAVE TO WORK with the new gameplay mechanics.

Well, Blacklist's gameplay mechanics are upgraded from Conviction with more stealthy elements, killing in motion, etc. I don't know how all this stuff will play into things, like if we just have to hold a button to abduct a mercenary that's coming around the corner or what not, but I'm betting that working with Ubisoft Montreal, that they found a way of bringing SvM back that works with these new mechanics.

It will not be the same SvM. I mean, we're talking about from CT to DA that was completely different. It was absent in Conviction. Now years later it's back in Blacklist. They are going to change things (hopefully for the better) but things will not be pure nostalgic to PT / CT vets.

That's my opinion. I'm not saying they will use Spy vs. Spy from SCC as their main inspiration for style, but it's something to think about. They can bring classic stuff back to SvM, while revamping the gameplay structure. If the screenshots that point to "Shadownet" remain true, then this is one way.

Also, to SolidSage, I also love the idea of mixing up the teams. I think that has plenty of gameplay potential. And maybe if the Spy vs. Spy community was big (I don't know how many people played it), they may consider incorporating the two modes.

sameer_monier
07-19-2012, 01:02 PM
Exactly. I'm sure it won't be the same mode. I thought it was going to be, but the more I thought about it... they have a new code, different gameplay features, etc. They just announced spies vs. mercs. They did not announce PT / CT spies vs. mercs. It is always possible that the mode will be entierly on its own, just like DA's compared to its single player. However, it will most likely be tied to the single player aspect of things. And there could very well be third person perspective gameplay for the mercenaries.

Remember, Maxine did say in a SCC interview about SvM that he could not envision Mercs like Sam's AI enemies up against Spies like Sam Fisher. And he said that with the new mechanics like Last Known Position and M&E, they would not work well with SvM. And then he said that if SvM were to be in Conviction for post DLC (at the time of the interview) that it would HAVE TO WORK with the new gameplay mechanics.

Well, Blacklist's gameplay mechanics are upgraded from Conviction with more stealthy elements, killing in motion, etc. I don't know how all this stuff will play into things, like if we just have to hold a button to abduct a mercenary that's coming around the corner or what not, but I'm betting that working with Ubisoft Montreal, that they found a way of bringing SvM back that works with these new mechanics.

It will not be the same SvM. I mean, we're talking about from CT to DA that was completely different. It was absent in Conviction. Now years later it's back in Blacklist. They are going to change things (hopefully for the better) but things will not be pure nostalgic to PT / CT vets.

That's my opinion. I'm not saying they will use Spy vs. Spy from SCC as their main inspiration for style, but it's something to think about. They can bring classic stuff back to SvM, while revamping the gameplay structure. If the screenshots that point to "Shadownet" remain true, then this is one way.

Also, to SolidSage, I also love the idea of mixing up the teams. I think that has plenty of gameplay potential. And maybe if the Spy vs. Spy community was big (I don't know how many people played it), they may consider incorporating the two modes.

I couldn't have said it any better.

I actually would like to add that even though it will be something new, with alot more new features, it may stay true to it's name, I mean they are bringing it back to the fans who really want it, so they are probably doing it with alot of care.

I am really interested to see how it works, especially since it will be a very different experience from your every time MP games, I hope they can innovate and make something special.

a3c0i3d
07-19-2012, 05:55 PM
As an PT and CT vet (PC) i can only hope ubi doesnt drop the ball on this, but history says they will. They have got a horrible track record when it comes to patching and listening to their customers. In my xfire i still have numerous people from my scct period. And i guesse they all want the same: 2 vs 2, spy vs merc, 3th person spy, 1st person merc. Sticky cams and lazer mines. Hands down the best multiplayer game ever.

braiog
07-19-2012, 06:21 PM
^^ and here is the thing, I don't think the devs will make CT Spy vs Merc. I don't know, I think they will try to innovate, include different stuff, add new features, ............etc, I don't know if that will set well with the fans who want the same exact mode.

Exactly the fear I have.

It's too bad this wasn't Assassin's Creed. They hardly innovate that game; it's usually just more of the same, and yet, surprise surprise Ubisoft, it's successful. People don't necessarily want vast sweeping changes and innovations to something whose core gameplay mechanics provided the majority of entertainment to them.

If your'e going to bring back SvM, bring *IT* back, and not some new game mode which moves too far away from what made CT's SvM a jaw-droppingly amazing experience. The game can be monetized and moved into today's gaming philosophy without losing the core mechanics.

braiog
07-19-2012, 06:28 PM
@OhMyGodMode

Personally, I think Mercs should have superior surveillance capabilities. Camnet was a great feature that when used well, gave the slower moving Merc recon information that was vital to success. But Spies should definitely have situational surveillance abilities. The sticky cam allowed custom camera locations so Spies could setup locations for defense or keep tabs on common thorough fares that Mercs took.

Needless to say, keeping tabs on each other was a pivotal part that made the cat n mouse experience. :)

Oh My Godmode
07-19-2012, 06:46 PM
@OhMyGodMode

Personally, I think Mercs should have superior surveillance capabilities. Camnet was a great feature that when used well, gave the slower moving Merc recon information that was vital to success. But Spies should definitely have situational surveillance abilities. The sticky cam allowed custom camera locations so Spies could setup locations for defense or keep tabs on common thorough fares that Mercs took.

Needless to say, keeping tabs on each other was a pivotal part that made the cat n mouse experience. :)

I don't mind the camnet. But think of surveillance as a broad spectrum of applications and you'll see that the spies do indeed need superior surveillance. Sticky cams, heart beat monitor, spy bullet, etc. The mercs shouldn't have had proximity detectors.

ReConNinJa.CF
07-19-2012, 07:07 PM
@OhMyGodMode

Personally, I think Mercs should have superior surveillance capabilities. Camnet was a great feature that when used well, gave the slower moving Merc recon information that was vital to success. But Spies should definitely have situational surveillance abilities. The sticky cam allowed custom camera locations so Spies could setup locations for defense or keep tabs on common thorough fares that Mercs took.

Needless to say, keeping tabs on each other was a pivotal part that made the cat n mouse experience. :)

however camnet on certain maps were over powered so the devs need to keep this in mind when placing such things in a map , and need to think about balance.Not just sticking security anywhere and just calling it a day.

KevinPDZ0916
07-20-2012, 06:18 AM
My biggest fear for this SvM is whether there will be a big community playing it. If it has action elements added into it, then I won't be too worried, because new players and old fans will surely play it, especially after SvM wasn't in Conviction. But then again if it is not exactly or near to PT/CT gameplay I fear that the veteran community will ignore it. There are vets out there who only want what it used to be. I don't want this game's SvM to be like DA, where it was #1 on Xbox Live for at least 2 full weeks, and then it slowly started to die out.

I just don't want to see this SvM fail because it will be the only one left to play online besides Double Agent (which surprisingly has started to gain popularity again on certain nights of the week). But even the 5 vs. 5 rumor with the 2-10 player listing on xbox.com is freaking some people out.

KevinPDZ0916
07-20-2012, 06:51 AM
I wanted to post some quotes that I found from two interviews about Splinter Cell Conviction in relation to there being no spies vs. mercenaries. Based on their comments in these interviews, I will pick explain my opinion in terms of the direction that they will be going with it. Also draw your own conclusions from them if you want. I know these were tough times back when, even for me, but SvM's gonna be in Blacklist, so everyone's happy. Right? . . .

Maxine:

“Doing Spies vs. Mercs is a whole new ball game and because we had changed the gameplay so much, we didn’t want to take the risk – on top of redefining what Splinter Cell and what stealth is.”

“You know, going into Spies vs. Mercs is a whole new ball game because that’s a game mode that needs to be balanced super well because of its asymmetric gameplay,”

“The smart move was to not do it right away and to make sure we nail out of the park our core gameplay for Conviction.”

“We already have some good ideas if we are to do another Splinter Cell game,” Beland noted, “We’ve got some good ideas for multiplayer,”

Redding:

Redding argued that Conviction’s more introspective, ‘rogue agent’ storyline and new AI-tricking mechanics would be hard to reconcile with the Spies versus Mercs concept, but commented ‘I don’t mean to say that there isn’t a possibility of exploring that, right now perhaps I lack the imagination to see it immediately’.

‘I think it was a good move, a smart move on our part, to play to our strengths,’ he went on, ‘especially on the first implementation of this, to try to come up with a multiplayer mode that really works well with those gameplay pillars, those gameplay mechanics of [Mark & Execute, Last Known Position] and the rest, and then once we see how that works then there’s all sorts of interesting possibilities, then we can really assess and say “OK, now, assuming we wanted to go down that avenue what would it look like?

‘But I think if we tried to go out the gates with it, I just think right now those same players that were mad it hadn’t been included would be cursing our names for trying to make it work and failing!’


Based on the above quotes, I believe they want SvM to work with the Blacklist gameplay. They talked about seeing what it would be like with the new gameplay mechanics in the future Splinter Cell title. They talk about how they wanted to play their strengths with co-op before diving in to SvM in order to make sure it played right. One positive is that Conviction's SvM spies could have been much more aggro-stealth, and Blacklist's Shadownet SvM spies could be a mixture of both aggro and classic stealth since they are focusing on both concepts in this game.

FunkyLovin89
07-20-2012, 04:09 PM
based on the information they released we will not probaly geting multiplayer info for a while, keep in mind yes they did say spy vs merc is back but who knows how or wat they did to make it better or worse. Counting on we know nothing about the mode all we can do is speculate about it. Let alone splinter cell da multiplayer was the last game with spy vs merc it was not as good as the older games concept, hopefully blacklist will improve where they left off.

DrCactus
07-20-2012, 06:00 PM
i had good comments. i had to edit it because i can't make a paragraph..... Read the quotes by Maxine and Redding from a dev stand-point. And them making the comparisons of SvM and single player and coop. SvM is a whole new ball game now, when compared to single player's M&E. I think there's hope, because redding even supports the hesitation of M&E with humans.

SolidSage
07-20-2012, 08:55 PM
Conviction's Spy vs Spy gives me hope. I believe that has to be the base framework for where they are going with SvM. You couldn't use M&E on a live opponent but I think LKP was there, and it was pretty okay because of the map size. By the time you got there the guy could be long gone or have used LKP to draw you into a trap. So that might be a feature that works well.
Seems to me that most work would be needed on making separation between classes and coming up with, or reviving some great modes and objectives and finding a way to balance all that with SCC/B's new control and movement format.

I'm excited. I mean, they're bringing it back when we thought it might be gone for good. You SvM hardcore freaks have got to be jacked about it. Good stuff :)

KevinPDZ0916
07-21-2012, 06:48 AM
I am also excited for SvM. I also thought Ubisoft would not bring it back, especially with the controversy with Conviction. But then the PS3 HD re-release did not include SvM, so I thought there was a reason for that, being that SvM was going to be in Blacklist before E3 happened. I already have Blacklist pre-ordered to get it on release day. Hoping I'll have time to play SvM that day. What are you guys going to want to play first, though? Single Player, Co-op, or Spies vs. Mercs, or all the modes in one day? I reckon I'll play single player first, more so I guess if SvM is tied to control similarities.

SolidSage
07-21-2012, 10:52 AM
I really want to dig into the SP to see what's going on with the story and get my hands on the killing in motion, but unless the game restricts it, chances are I will spend the first few days running through co-op, and taking a look at SvM.
After that it's all about hanging out with Sam and getting through his mission and frequenting whatever other mode has the most draw.
In SCC, I wasn't really interested in spending much time in Last Stand initially, but during year 2 that mode was a major addiction, along with Infiltration...so it's all about what's good, what's LEFT (if it's SCC good) and whether or not the MP is fun.

Probably bounce through it all first day though, get a look in.

sarsdisease21
07-22-2012, 07:32 AM
I was so happy when I heard spy's vs mercs was comming back. Definently one of the best ideas for a multiplayer ever

KevinPDZ0916
07-23-2012, 06:41 AM
Conviction's Spy vs Spy gives me hope. I believe that has to be the base framework for where they are going with SvM. You couldn't use M&E on a live opponent but I think LKP was there, and it was pretty okay because of the map size. By the time you got there the guy could be long gone or have used LKP to draw you into a trap. So that might be a feature that works well.
Seems to me that most work would be needed on making separation between classes and coming up with, or reviving some great modes and objectives and finding a way to balance all that with SCC/B's new control and movement format.

I'm excited. I mean, they're bringing it back when we thought it might be gone for good. You SvM hardcore freaks have got to be jacked about it. Good stuff :)

Yeah I remember Maxine hesitated with M&E in SvM. So that might not be there to perform on for human Mercenaries. Unless the Mercenary had the ability to M&E and not the spies? That could raise some tension, but again, I don't know how they would balance it.

With LKP, I remember how it was used for Spy vs. Spy. But it was for A.I. use only. How would that work with human players? Cause not all human players see a spy in the distance the same way, especially in shadows. Unless LKP was activated after a mercenary had a spy within their flashlight range, or maybe once they shot a spy or laser sighted them. A spy using a gadget either in their exact location or by throwing off a grenade in the distance could trigger LKP, too.

Plus, does anybody think that the active camo from CT's SvM will return? I think there was active camo in Ghost Recon: Future Soldier. So i guess it's always possible. I loved that gadget. It really added depth to the stealth play, especially when a Mercenary was around a corner.

Gaio26
07-23-2012, 10:21 PM
About SCCT SvM:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKCI4dY7j6Y&feature=plcp

KevinPDZ0916
07-24-2012, 04:06 AM
In the ComDev forum, Zack answered my question about when we would find out multiplayer information. No surprise, he said he could not say anything yet. I appreciate his response to it, but I seriously hope Ubisoft Toronto reveals something "in the coming months" (a common term) meaning like August / September / October. I would think it would be before then, considering the game is rumored to come out at the end of March. But I find it weird that no more gameplay videos came out so far this month after E3. I am sure videos will come out in August. I think Ubisoft needs to release tid bits about the game every week to keep the hype constant, especially for the stealth splinter cell vets who do not like the action-oriented gameplay.

CoolBrinkman
07-24-2012, 06:32 AM
About SCCT SvM:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKCI4dY7j6Y&feature=plcp

Now that's nostalgic!

SolidSage
07-24-2012, 09:35 AM
Interesting how that one post came and went.
Good video :)

KevinPDZ0916
07-25-2012, 06:08 PM
The fact that Maxine is emphasizing Sam Fisher being more aggressive, aggro-stealth, or ghost stealth makes me ponder what this means for SvM. Because that sort of "choose your own gameplay style" could present itself in the mode, especially if the suit upgrades like extra body armor, stealth shoes, and different vision modes come into play.

I can see the Shadownet spies wielding a tazer gun, but what if they can also wield the pistols, sub-machine guns, and shotguns like Sam Fisher?
What if the cover mechanics are in? If this were the case, though, I feel the game would be more about deathmatch than accomplishing objectives. But at the same time, it would give people a sense of how to kill the mercenaries and extract data, etc.

But how cool would it be if you were following one of your merc buddies, and all of sudden the Shadownet spy abducts him from behind the wall and kills him with the knife, or something? I would be scared to death and start shooting like crazy.

Also, on a side note, I think the co-op for Conviction was not shown until about November / December after Conviction was shown at that year's E3. I think it the co-op was also first revealed in the U.S. version of Official Xbox Magazine. Hopefully we will not have to wait until those months this year to find out about Blacklist's co-op / SvM.

CoolBrinkman
07-26-2012, 03:32 AM
Giving the spies lethal weapons would suck! I want my taser and my gadgets, thats all!

crazycool17
07-26-2012, 03:52 PM
Spies vs spies and Mercs vs Mercs!!! Also maps from PT and CT!!!

SolidSage
07-26-2012, 09:01 PM
Giving the spies lethal weapons would suck! I want my taser and my gadgets, thats all!

^Pro. Don't want to play with him then ;)

SoN_RaVeN
07-27-2012, 01:58 AM
In my opinion SC: DA Multiplayer was and IS the best. Till this day I still play it on the 360. Every other day i sit back on the couch, and play some good old ranked matches ;)

The 3v3 gives much more fun in terms of teamplay, there are many more possibilities how to tactically approach a situation if you have 3 players instead of only 2 a team.

In terms of gamemodes I enjoy the DA multiplayer the most, the wireless hacking gives endless possibilities to approach a target and gives many chances to be cheeky and hack the terminal 3 bars while the merc is right next to you -flashed- desperately spraying his gun at you hoping to hit you.
or you could be sitting far away from the terminal in some dark corner hacking slowly, him slowly searching for you with his torch....
Bringing back the old gamemodes or introducing completly new ones sounds inviting as well.

In terms of customizing I have a split opinion. Customizing is fun as hell and can give fun tweaks or handicaps to the game that will give many hours of just messing about with mates. the only problem i have with customizing are the kiddies in the game. that will customize the settings in a rly f***ing annoying way that nobody agrees with. nobody will ready up, and so on...
a solution to that problem could be that matchmaking is with default settings and that custom lobbies are for invite only - or by finding some other way that everyone can avoid playing non default settings -

written below is more a tribute to all the great moments I had in SCDA with many great people, that I hope to see again online when Blacklist comes out.

But what matters to me the most (and I think I speak on behalf of all the people in the SCDA MP community) is the community itself;

The community is a very competitive one, everyone knows the Pro Players (lets now argue here who is one and who aint ;)) many of them are looked at in awe by the other players. The reason hardcore fans still play the game till this day is because it is so highly competitive. There are many rivals (squads and individuals) and is nothing more thrilling than playing ranked matches and trying to "show who's boss"
Ranked should definitely return, it is the driving force for all of the competitive players. either the same old fashion (the community still fights for their points and their ranked places like vultures and shows their ranks in their BIO like medals) or come up with a new system. Either way; there has to be something competitive for the hardcore players that are going to play the game for years and years to come and for community that will grow tightly together where people (ill say it once again: till this day) play, laugh and hate each other with all their heart.
Many of the hardcore players end up mentoring newcomers, they teach them the tricks, the tweaks and most important of all the fair play. Every player has their own unique style that they develop. We learn from each other and people still come up with new tactics and ideas how to kick as or simply piss off the opponent. Some tactics are well kept secrets to individuals or squads for years and years counting...
The Squad ranking system never worked properly. But the squad system should definitely return and should be changed around into a system that works competitively. The squad ranking changed the whole game from I into WE, and many of us had a lot of pride to be in one of the top clans/squads.
It is difficult to describe the whole concept of the SCDA community in a few lines of text. But what created it was definitely the competitive edge and a lot of cocky players that think they are the best that had to be taught otherwise, as well as the newcomers who we still, till this day teach the tricks in downtime when the ranked lobbies aren't filling up fast enough....
A tip for the ones who read this and now want to play some DA again: stay away from the ranked, its rape for the newcomers :P

CoolBrinkman
07-28-2012, 07:51 AM
In my opinion SC: DA Multiplayer was and IS the best. Till this day I still play it on the 360. Every other day i sit back on the couch, and play some good old ranked matches ;)

The 3v3 gives much more fun in terms of teamplay, there are many more possibilities how to tactically approach a situation if you have 3 players instead of only 2 a team.

The problem with 3v3 is that there may be teamwork, but there was too much of it. 2v2 made you worried about what was around a corner, and 3v3 let a player run around with one extra teammate to guard their back and completely demolish single players.



In terms of gamemodes I enjoy the DA multiplayer the most, the wireless hacking gives endless possibilities to approach a target and gives many chances to be cheeky and hack the terminal 3 bars while the merc is right next to you -flashed- desperately spraying his gun at you hoping to hit you.
or you could be sitting far away from the terminal in some dark corner hacking slowly, him slowly searching for you with his torch....
Bringing back the old gamemodes or introducing completly new ones sounds inviting as well.


The thing about DA's remote hacking system was that as soon as you learned the map, you instantly knew where the remote hacking was coming from. With a little reasoning you could say, 'well I've guarded the floor level, so they must be up top', and then we would all end up pointing our flashlights into specified spots where we knew the spies would be, no more than five spots. It happened like this almost every game.


In terms of customizing I have a split opinion. Customizing is fun as hell and can give fun tweaks or handicaps to the game that will give many hours of just messing about with mates. the only problem i have with customizing are the kiddies in the game. that will customize the settings in a rly f***ing annoying way that nobody agrees with. nobody will ready up, and so on...
a solution to that problem could be that matchmaking is with default settings and that custom lobbies are for invite only - or by finding some other way that everyone can avoid playing non default settings -

NONONO selling the game without a server browser should never happen again! I agree that default settings should be attached to matchmaking, however whenever they don't include a server browser, we all keep getting matched to the same game we just left, say for reasons concerning customized settings. We should be able to pick a different server just by browsing so it won't drop us over and over into the same bad rooms.

xRaDRoacHx
07-28-2012, 08:54 AM
selling the game without a server browser should never happen again!
I agree. Hope that it will be like CT. The auto search was really boring...

SoN_RaVeN
07-28-2012, 03:55 PM
The thing about DA's remote hacking system was that as soon as you learned the map, you instantly knew where the remote hacking was coming from. With a little reasoning you could say, 'well I've guarded the floor level, so they must be up top', and then we would all end up pointing our flashlights into specified spots where we knew the spies would be, no more than five spots. It happened like this almost every game.

Yea, but thats how the gameplay is for unexperienced players. that would be like me saying in SC CT everybody uses only cloak or some other equipment... unexperienced players play very often in a pattern that the more experienced players can foresee, but thats with every game. with more experience there gets a greater depth to it how to hack on short and long range and escape in time or hide with perfect timing in blindspots...



NONONO selling the game without a server browser should never happen again! I agree that default settings should be attached to matchmaking, however whenever they don't include a server browser, we all keep getting matched to the same game we just left, say for reasons concerning customized settings. We should be able to pick a different server just by browsing so it won't drop us over and over into the same bad rooms.

I agree, we need a server browser, its a pain without one... but my suggestion should be for ranked, it should be similar to something like halo, where you don't see who you're playing with till the game is already officially in progress, otherwise people will backout of lobbies and stuff, also a time penalty for quitting in ranked would be nice in addition to the standard point penalty, otherwise people will blackout the moment they realize they loose, and backout to play a new game.

Jonah47
07-28-2012, 04:11 PM
Double Agent had great multiplayer for me. But I hope that the Spies vs Mercs in Blacklist is more like Chaos Theory. But with the new control scheme and the fact they've completely changed the core of the series, I don't know how it will play in contrast to other games.

CoolBrinkman
07-30-2012, 07:37 AM
If they could bring back Cinema and Vertigo Tower, I'd donate a bit of each paycheck to Ubi. Talk about amazing maps.

GimbleFIN
07-30-2012, 08:56 AM
If they could bring back Cinema and Vertigo Tower, I'd donate a bit of each paycheck to Ubi. Talk about amazing maps.

They were so awsome, oh and the Hospital. It would be just awesome to return there some day. They actually could re-use all those great maps all over again because it's been a while since anyone played them. And for some of the players they would probably be "new maps" I don't remember if there was any poor maps on PT or CT? They were all awesome!

gosmokeashotgun
07-31-2012, 05:34 AM
Please ubi don't ruin this game for the Pandora tomorrow, Chaos Theory fans that loved the originality in the concept of spy vs merc. Me and my friends are still hosting servers on chaos theory till this day. Double agent was utterly terrible imo and conviction wasn't anything special. Please do us right this time around thank you, ps I have included a video of a recent game of ct, just to remind you all what made it so great. Please watch :cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_24pcNPOX5A&list=UUZwnNPV-TKpv6aj--eYQvYQ&index=1&feature=plcp

KevinPDZ0916
08-01-2012, 02:55 AM
With the recent thread that Zack posted, with the "ghost" gameplay style tease, I would love it if at the ended a trailer of it with a shadownet spy sneaking up on an argus mercenary

Oh My Godmode
08-01-2012, 04:21 AM
Why am I captcha'd?



Anyway: I have to vehemently disagree about DA being the best SvM ever. I found it too easy and boring. I hate that SvM had to suffer in order to gain accessibility.

That being said, I was thinking about SvM today and I believe that it is very possible to integrate key selling points of both SvM iterations into a single game.

Things I like and wouldn't mind seeing from both games:

Wireless terminal hacking.
Athletic moves.
Character Models from DA
Chaos Theory Gadgets
Chaos Theory multi objectives.
Mercenary Gadgets from CT
Mercenary rifle from DA
Grapple from DA
2v2 gameplay
Coop Moves
Maps that hearken back to PT/CT style maps. (More vertically styled maps)
Camnet from CT (This was awesome. Would also add a facet of game play if it were hackable, by the spies)
Passive security measures. (lasers, cameras, motion detection)
CARRYING 4 GADGETS!!!


Things I really DON'T want to see:

Proximity detectors for the Mercs.
Drones for the Mercs
3v3 gameplay. Or 4v4. Or anything more than 2v2.
Mixed teams.
EMF vision that gets blurry with movement.

Thing I really don't want to hear:

"Headshot!"

I'm sure there are a lot of other things that I'm missing. But these are the core things that stand out to me.


Edit: I'm on the fence about sonar goggles. I think I'd rather have Heartbeat Monitor for the spies over sonar goggles.

SoN_RaVeN
08-01-2012, 05:03 AM
Thing I really don't want to hear:

"Headshot!"


Haha I ****in love it! my heart always skips a beat when i hear it, like a ****in payback!

GimbleFIN
08-01-2012, 03:52 PM
Why am I captcha'd?



Anyway: I have to vehemently disagree about DA being the best SvM ever. I found it too easy and boring. I hate that SvM had to suffer in order to gain accessibility.

That being said, I was thinking about SvM today and I believe that it is very possible to integrate key selling points of both SvM iterations into a single game.

Things I like and wouldn't mind seeing from both games:

Wireless terminal hacking.
Athletic moves.
Character Models from DA
Chaos Theory Gadgets
Chaos Theory multi objectives.
Mercenary Gadgets from CT
Mercenary rifle from DA
Grapple from DA
2v2 gameplay
Coop Moves
Maps that hearken back to PT/CT style maps. (More vertically styled maps)
Camnet from CT (This was awesome. Would also add a facet of game play if it were hackable, by the spies)
Passive security measures. (lasers, cameras, motion detection)
CARRYING 4 GADGETS!!!


Things I really DON'T want to see:

Proximity detectors for the Mercs.
Drones for the Mercs
3v3 gameplay. Or 4v4. Or anything more than 2v2.
Mixed teams.
EMF vision that gets blurry with movement.

Thing I really don't want to hear:

"Headshot!"

I'm sure there are a lot of other things that I'm missing. But these are the core things that stand out to me.


Edit: I'm on the fence about sonar goggles. I think I'd rather have Heartbeat Monitor for the spies over sonar goggles.

Wow, really good post. Allmost looks like you read my mind since my list would've been probably all the same. I think the orginal idea and balance was really well thought and made in PT/CT (after some fixes were made) 2 vs 2 also made it really easy and fast to play. I wish we would get proper Spy vs Merc back, it would be so awesome. But there has been so many disappointments already so really can't get too exited about anything that has Ubisoft stamp on it...unfortunately, i also found Double Agents versus boring and too simple. Got old really fast unlike Chaos Theory which i would still play if it's just would be possible. (No, PC gaming is not an option to me)

MANGAJEDI
08-02-2012, 11:38 PM
It probably won't be good if they don't get another developer to make it. That's not a gibe against Ubisoft Toronto so much as it is an acknowledgement that many developers simply can't juggle single-player and adversarial multiplayer. Unless they've got a lot of people at Toronto working on this, they're going to need help.

I read that it's toronto working on single player, Montreal and I think shanghai are doing either coop and mp. Not sure but it is going to be awesome.

gosmokeashotgun
08-03-2012, 12:06 AM
I hope you all enjoy, took some time to make. There are still a lot of gg's left in this community, Ps remember to watch through you tube for full 1080p .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkrqEyCumjc&amp;list=UUZwnNPV-TKpv6aj--eYQvYQ&amp;index=1&amp;feature=plcp

x3c_Limerick
08-03-2012, 02:36 AM
Can we focus more on multiplayer here? I want some assurance that multiplayer will be back to its original form. I think most will agree that Double Agent and Conviction had horrible multiplayer. Don't forget your roots, Ubisoft. This franchise was built on stealth and a highly competitive multiplayer Spy vs Merc mode where skill and patience were required.

I would still be playing Chaos Theory multiplayer on Xbox if there servers were still up.


+1 for that, though i am a terrible spy i had alot of fun with players in my skill bracket, figuring out how to out-maneuver them and get to a hack spot, tactical use of cameras, etc.


Double Agent's SvM was pretty aweful, more like quake with high tech gadgets, in fairly small arena's that had no business being in a stealthy multiplayer mode (Read: Shipyard, S.W.A.T. would've been a better choice for that map, considering the vast openness of it).

I respect that 3rd echelon is elite but so are other government agencies lol.


I read that it's toronto working on single player, Montreal and I think shanghai are doing either coop and mp. Not sure but it is going to be awesome.


Not to bash on Shanghai, but PAndora Tomorrow was definitely the most detached Splinter Cell i have ever played, in terms of functionality in campaign mode. the laser was a cool addition but so primitive that it almost lost it's point, and i loved the Karma-Physics tall-grass and pot plants but seriously that game was very infantile in terms of game play. I hope Shanghai steps it up a notch if they are doing Co-Op and MP, though SvM was great in PT and CT, just map selection could've been alot better (Deftech Belew and Warehouse maps were over-simplififed).

CoolBrinkman
08-04-2012, 08:13 PM
If they are separating the teams by company, that is a great thing! I really wouldn't mind them releasing the game with single player on one disc, and multiplayer on another. I'd flip.

KevinPDZ0916
08-04-2012, 11:59 PM
Man there's nothing to theorize on this board anymore. I think we exhausted ourselves through this thread already. Come on, Ubisoft. Show us something about SvM, so we can discuss plenty of things again.

michael00
08-05-2012, 04:23 PM
let there be splitscreen! that is the only thing i hate about double agent. that there is no splitscreen

KevinPDZ0916
08-07-2012, 03:49 AM
I do not think there will be split screen play. PT, CT, and DA did not have it. The co-op will surely have split screen.

CovertOwl
08-07-2012, 04:51 AM
I had a "nightmare" last night where a video was released of SvM gameplay. It was 4v4 and the Mercs were played in 3rd person. I was so mad lol

Om4zd
08-07-2012, 09:57 AM
Hahaha lmao

Some people I know who are new to Splinter Cell think it's stupid to have the Spies in 3rd person and the Mercs in 1st person in the first place.

reddragonhrcro
08-07-2012, 03:31 PM
I had a "nightmare" last night where a video was released of SvM gameplay. It was 4v4 and the Mercs were played in 3rd person. I was so mad lol

LOL


Hahaha lmao
Some people I know who are new to Splinter Cell think it's stupid to have the Spies in 3rd person and the Mercs in 1st person in the first place.

LMAO,people say stupid things.

CovertOwl
08-07-2012, 06:19 PM
Hahaha lmao

Some people I know who are new to Splinter Cell think it's stupid to have the Spies in 3rd person and the Mercs in 1st person in the first place.

This is what made the game so unique and awesome!

Mr Epimetheus
08-08-2012, 01:39 AM
The best aspect of the original SvM of Pandora Tomorrow and Chaos Theory was lost with the sole addition of the proximity detector in Double Agent. That tool took away that intense moment when you duck behind a pillar just as the merc came to check on the area and you remained out of sight until the danger passed. That is what I loved about SvM.
The key things I would like to see back in this SvM are:
--Sound Detector - Mercs (forced spies to play smart)
--Less spastic spies - I liked being quick but DA just felt like you should be running constantly flipping like ninjas. Slow the spies down, this will also lead to more intense situations
--Maps like Krauser Labs - I loved a lot of the original maps, but I like maps that feel like you're breaking into something.
--Take away Merc jumping - You all might disagree with this but this would solve so many annoying problems. Mercs don't need to jump. This would prevent two annoying things: bunny hopping (looks stupid), and mercs camping on rails or whatnot.
--Tweak gameplay - The trickiest thing of them all. Find that balance that makes the spy player want to complete objectives rather than dance around with mercs going for necks. Don't get me wrong, i love the neck breaking, but grenade spamming the merc right out of the gate feels like something is missing.
--2v2
--better matchmaking (can't see how good your team is before the game starts)
--no proximity detector
--bring the mines and spy traps back

I'm sure there is more, but I'm very excited about what is coming. I just hope that its more in touch with the roots of the series rather than M&E and LKP.

xRaDRoacHx
08-08-2012, 11:55 AM
I wish to KO the mercs instead of kill them some times, like in CT.
Hack a terminal;
Stop and hide when you hear some1;
Sneak back to the merc;
KO punch:
Finish your work;
GTFO before the merc wakes up again.

ReConNinJa.CF
08-08-2012, 08:55 PM
The best aspect of the original SvM of Pandora Tomorrow and Chaos Theory was lost with the sole addition of the proximity detector in Double Agent. That tool took away that intense moment when you duck behind a pillar just as the merc came to check on the area and you remained out of sight until the danger passed. That is what I loved about SvM.
The key things I would like to see back in this SvM are:
--Sound Detector - Mercs (forced spies to play smart)
--Less spastic spies - I liked being quick but DA just felt like you should be running constantly flipping like ninjas. Slow the spies down, this will also lead to more intense situations
--Maps like Krauser Labs - I loved a lot of the original maps, but I like maps that feel like you're breaking into something.
--Take away Merc jumping - You all might disagree with this but this would solve so many annoying problems. Mercs don't need to jump. This would prevent two annoying things: bunny hopping (looks stupid), and mercs camping on rails or whatnot.
--Tweak gameplay - The trickiest thing of them all. Find that balance that makes the spy player want to complete objectives rather than dance around with mercs going for necks. Don't get me wrong, i love the neck breaking, but grenade spamming the merc right out of the gate feels like something is missing.
--2v2
--better matchmaking (can't see how good your team is before the game starts)
--no proximity detector
--bring the mines and spy traps back

I'm sure there is more, but I'm very excited about what is coming. I just hope that its more in touch with the roots of the series rather than M&E and LKP.

I see one problem with you wanting to take out jumping ,it is essential , You need to to be able to jump and turn so that you don't get bounced around like a ping pong ball when being double teamed by two spies , an alternative to rail camping is make the railings thinner so you can't balance on them as well. gg.

Mr Epimetheus
08-09-2012, 04:15 PM
I see one problem with you wanting to take out jumping ,it is essential , You need to to be able to jump and turn so that you don't get bounced around like a ping pong ball when being double teamed by two spies , an alternative to rail camping is make the railings thinner so you can't balance on them as well. gg.

LOL. Agree on the ping-pong comment. Chaos Theory tried to counter that with the 360 degree spin, but using that against anyone good was just an invitation for the rear naked choke. As far as rail camping or rail jumping to glitch to inaccessible areas as a Merc (in DA particularly) is an area that needs focus; whether it be thinner rail objects or no jumping for mercs.

Bottomline, I want to see a polished SvM that feels more like the original but am open to some change. And to whoever posted it earlier, Vertigo Plaza was the bomb.

KevinPDZ0916
08-10-2012, 05:10 PM
I just had a thought today about how the 5 vs. 5 gameplay might work. (if it's true, and because that's what it says on the xbox.com marketplace description)

I do not see 5 spies of equal power and abilities, running around and snapping necks, as balanced, i guess. I also do not see Mercenaries in the same light, possibly, unless they want to turn SvM into a deathmatch frenzy.

So what if SvM adopts classes / rankings to its gameplay? Any of these classes could be selected every time you spawn, so you are not forced to play as a certain class, especiallly if you can't get a full 5 vs. 5 game.

For example,

1. Ghost Spy - Equips active camo, knife, chaff grenades, OCP device, or device similar to DA's arm hacking tool for breaking windows, turning off lights. Moves a lot faster than other spies. Has night vision, health needles, lock-picking
2. Predator Spy - Equips smoke grenade, thermal vision, sticky shocker, other non-lethal gadgets, hacking
3. Panther Spy - Equips lethal firearms or tazer gun, sonar vision, rechargeable health, gas grenade

1. Ghost Merc - No visions, shotgun, larger flashlight, heartbeat sensor
2. Predator Merc - EMP vision, Rifle Gun, medium flashlight, sound detector
3. Panther Merc - Motion Tracking Vision, Proximity detector of moving spies nearby that run only, Uzi Gun, Frag Grenades, smaller flashlight

This is obviously a very bad example possibly of how this system would work. But I do feel that it would allow the need for more cooperation in a 5 vs. 5 environment.

ReConNinJa.CF
08-10-2012, 06:00 PM
I just had a thought today about how the 5 vs. 5 gameplay might work. (if it's true, and because that's what it says on the xbox.com marketplace description)

I do not see 5 spies of equal power and abilities, running around and snapping necks, as balanced, i guess. I also do not see Mercenaries in the same light, possibly, unless they want to turn SvM into a deathmatch frenzy.

So what if SvM adopts classes / rankings to its gameplay? Any of these classes could be selected every time you spawn, so you are not forced to play as a certain class, especiallly if you can't get a full 5 vs. 5 game.

For example,

1. Ghost Spy - Equips active camo, knife, chaff grenades, OCP device, or device similar to DA's arm hacking tool for breaking windows, turning off lights. Moves a lot faster than other spies. Has night vision, health needles, lock-picking
2. Predator Spy - Equips smoke grenade, thermal vision, sticky shocker, other non-lethal gadgets, hacking
3. Panther Spy - Equips lethal firearms or tazer gun, sonar vision, rechargeable health, gas grenade

1. Ghost Merc - No visions, shotgun, larger flashlight, heartbeat sensor
2. Predator Merc - EMP vision, Rifle Gun, medium flashlight, sound detector
3. Panther Merc - Motion Tracking Vision, Proximity detector of moving spies nearby that run only, Uzi Gun, Frag Grenades, smaller flashlight

This is obviously a very bad example possibly of how this system would work. But I do feel that it would allow the need for more cooperation in a 5 vs. 5 environment.

NO NO NO NO, Please stop while your ahead, throw these ideas out the window, they do not represent what Spies versus merc truely is, this isn't a thread about single ppalyer , this is about multiplayer, so please stop now i beg you.

SolidSage
08-10-2012, 06:47 PM
If it is going to be 5v5 I think there needs to be a good deal of customization to the character classes. So you can have a varied group of Spies and Mercs, rather than 5 of exactly the same type of operator.
Allowing each team to have some operatives more specialized to certain approaches may avoid a stagnant atmosphere.

Basically what you were saying Kevin, or a variant of.

KevinPDZ0916
08-11-2012, 06:39 AM
If the Shadownet Spies in SvM have the same fluid animations that Sam does in the campaign due to the motion capturing technology, that is going to be so awesome looking.

Also, what did you guys think of the drones in DA's SvM?

Personally, I loved using them. It was funny sometimes when I would randomly send a drone up the vent to at the roof interior at the red terminal on boss house. Sometimes I had a spy fall right on my drone as it was ascending. Then I would activate the detonation and scare them to death. Good times.

I would want to see the drones make a return.

CoolBrinkman
08-11-2012, 08:08 AM
I myself was never a big fan of the drones as I felt it took away from my hiding abilities and forced me out of cover. Also, that **** defies gravity?

As for your post about different variations of spies and mercs, I think that will be what Ubisoft is shooting for with the buying system. It allows people to upgrade and select different pieces of gear to customize with. Good post.

KevinPDZ0916
08-12-2012, 07:51 PM
What types of SvM maps would you guys like to see? And how many maps would you like to see on release day?

Each game had about 8 or so maps released for them I believe, so i don't see why Blacklist would not do the same. And 8 or 10 would be fine with me.

I want to see a mansion map, another map like Krauser Lab where you have to hack and sneak your way into a big complex building. I also want to play on a ship. U.S.S. Wisdom from DA does not count. I want a ship that is on the open water and the mission would be to sink it or something by placing charges in the lower decks.

I also would not mind to see some new recreations of other similar map themes from PT, CT, or DA. The SvM maps might be influenced from single player levels, too, possibly. I would not be surprised to see a daytime Iraq / Iran Border map for SvM. I also would not mind a few re-imagined maps from PT, CT, or DA either.

I'll list all the maps from the other games just in case it sparks any ideas.

PT:

Vertigo Plaza
Deftech Belew
Museum
Mount Hospital
Krauser Lab
Cinema
Scheledron (or however you spell it)
Warehouse
River Mall
Federal Bank

CT:

Aquarius
Factory
Clubhouse
Orphanage
Missile Silo
Station
Steel Squat
Polar Base

DA:

Blackwing
Boss House
Dawn Waves
Motorway 90
Terminus
Red Diamond
Slaughterhouse
U.S.S. Wisdom
Kinshasha
Secret Base

Om4zd
08-12-2012, 08:46 PM
5v5? Aw man that sucks. I think just because they expect more people to be playing SCB I still don't think they should make it 5v5.

The maps would have to be bigger too. How many objectives will there have to be in one map as well?

I would rather it be 4v4 instead. Then each team could split up into 2 groups (or not but it would be fair if the numbers were so).

That would make for smaller but more detailed maps, which we all would like more than big maps.

CoolBrinkman
08-13-2012, 07:33 AM
PT:

Vertigo Plaza
Deftech Belew
Museum
Mount Hospital
Krauser Lab
Cinema
Scheledron (or however you spell it)
Warehouse
River Mall
Federal Bank

CT:

Aquarius
Factory
Clubhouse
Orphanage
Missile Silo
Station
Steel Squat
Polar Base


Haha honestly I don't know how you can remember so many map names. ;) As much as I played CT, I can't even picture what some of these maps looked like!
I agree that the map count should be around 9 or so, to keep the game fresh. Perhaps even with a DLC later on of some remastered versions of the previous games' maps. I really liked how Mount Hospital and Orphanage had an eery feeling to them; being younger I could almost tense up thinking that I would peek down the hallway and see a ghost or something terrifying.

xRaDRoacHx
08-13-2012, 10:35 AM
Please Ubi: just add more gamemodes than SCDA, remove the server autosearch and introduce a server list like SCPT/CT.
P.S. and don't add any proxysensor or drones... Just bring back the old security system (cameras, lasers etc.)

Mr Epimetheus
08-13-2012, 05:18 PM
Please Ubi: just add more gamemodes than SCDA, remove the server autosearch and introduce a server list like SCPT/CT.
P.S. and don't add any proxysensor or drones... Just bring back the old security system (cameras, lasers etc.)

Agree to all here. As for 5v5...ridiculous. On top of that, remember 3v3? You could be waiting for a bit and everyone is concerned with "oh my teammate is a noob, I won't play with him, I want spy." What needs to happen is a matchmaking service that works. Use the Halo/COD style where it throws you into a 2v2 (preferably) game and it starts. Make the game "revenge" style and major penalties for dropping out. It wouldn't be even so bad to shorten the standard length of gametime (best done by reducing number of lives: 2 spies & 1 merc). Once the game loses the initial rush, I don't want to have to spend 15 minutes hunting for a game where people are going to drop out or only play if they are a spy or with the best player.

ReConNinJa.CF
08-13-2012, 10:45 PM
Agree to all here. As for 5v5...ridiculous. On top of that, remember 3v3? You could be waiting for a bit and everyone is concerned with "oh my teammate is a noob, I won't play with him, I want spy." What needs to happen is a matchmaking service that works. Use the Halo/COD style where it throws you into a 2v2 (preferably) game and it starts. Make the game "revenge" style and major penalties for dropping out. It wouldn't be even so bad to shorten the standard length of gametime (best done by reducing number of lives: 2 spies & 1 merc). Once the game loses the initial rush, I don't want to have to spend 15 minutes hunting for a game where people are going to drop out or only play if they are a spy or with the best player.

play on the pc, this rarely happens when you play good players.

Dieinthedark
08-13-2012, 11:47 PM
I made a poll a long time ago, and by far the majority of people wanted 2v2 or 3v3, anything more than that had like no votes whatsoever. I think 3v3 is a good balance, operating like a Rainbow Six squad then :)

And, 1100th post! :)

Jonah47
08-14-2012, 07:57 AM
I liked DA's SvM. Anyway, I just hope Blacklist does this MP mode justice. I had so much fun play SvM on CT and DA.

xRaDRoacHx
08-14-2012, 10:48 AM
Agree to all here. As for 5v5...ridiculous. On top of that, remember 3v3? You could be waiting for a bit and everyone is concerned with "oh my teammate is a noob, I won't play with him, I want spy." What needs to happen is a matchmaking service that works. Use the Halo/COD style where it throws you into a 2v2 (preferably) game and it starts. Make the game "revenge" style and major penalties for dropping out. It wouldn't be even so bad to shorten the standard length of gametime (best done by reducing number of lives: 2 spies & 1 merc). Once the game loses the initial rush, I don't want to have to spend 15 minutes hunting for a game where people are going to drop out or only play if they are a spy or with the best player.


If every server needs 10 players, I would ask to have more customization... Let us choose how many players can join into a server, 10, 6 (SCDA) , 4 (SCPT/SCCT).... Everyone will be happy . lulz.


(best done by reducing number of lives: 2 spies & 1 merc)
Customization. (You can do that on CT)

Mr Epimetheus
08-14-2012, 04:58 PM
The biggest problem with everyone here wanting customization is that you get too many niches. A mash of game modes and various player sizes means that fewer players will end up in the pool of what the core gameplay should be; and that is what the real question is. Keeping the options simple, improves the populations and the speed of getting into games. Customization is great as far as appearance/equipment, but not to allow 2v2 all the way up to 10v10 or deathmatch up to an oddball gametype.
Going back to shortening gametime: I feel the standard should be built around a shorter experience (no more than 10 min). Games should be round based (switch sides) and then back to the lobby. This will improve players dropping from games because they run out of lives or whatnot.

DrCactus
08-14-2012, 11:21 PM
I think matchmaking is stupid. Let people chose to join a server. This is the best way to make friends that aren't your friends and play with people who are great. nothing alienates me more than the matchmaking system. I have no care for who these people are or how they play, it's very rare i'll play with them again. With a server, i can join it regularly and see the regulars. Just like going into a bar, and being greeted by the same waitress, bartender and bouncer every time.
/end rant of servers

As for the 5v5, it's looking like we might not get away from it. The more I hear from you guys and the community about your concerns (mainly the not proximity detector, and the players droping out because of not being spies) that I believe they are attempting a mixed team concept. I believe that would be the only way M&E would work and they seem to be all about this "killing in motion" with style.

Ever since conviction, they been trying to get the spy feeling of the Bourne Identiy into the game with the speed, and hidding in plain sight. The original SvM is nothing like it and thus, may now be forever changed.

I am officially concerned. Until I see a screen shot or gameplay. I am now leaning towards Ubisoft screwing with SvM more than they should.

Justin-x
08-15-2012, 01:40 AM
I just hope Blacklist addresses the biggest problem Double Agent"s SvM had; Nobody wanted to be the Mercs. It got very stressful many times when the Spy side would fill up in a milisecond with everyone else forced to play as Mercs. And since the Spy team would never give up their roles it usually meant that once you were a Merc, you stayed a Merc. Because of this it wasn't uncommon for people to quit out of lobbies right when they saw that the Spy team was full. For Blacklist they really need to either have team switches after every round or just make the Mercs actually fun to play as.

Eveyone want to be the hunter; None wants to be the prey

MerriIl
08-15-2012, 02:54 AM
I just hope Blacklist addresses the biggest problem Double Agent"s SvM had; Nobody wanted to be the Mercs. It got very stressful many times when the Spy side would fill up in a milisecond with everyone else forced to play as Mercs. And since the Spy team would never give up their roles it usually meant that once you were a Merc, you stayed a Merc. Because of this it wasn't uncommon for people to quit out of lobbies right when they saw that the Spy team was full. For Blacklist they really need to either have team switches after every round or just make the Mercs actually fun to play as.

Eveyone want to be the hunter; None wants to be the prey

Probably because the majority of people playing SC prefer 3rd person camera. If they could give Mercs the option to be 3rd person rather than 1st, it might balance sides. Just a thought.

SolidSage
08-15-2012, 04:32 AM
^ This would definitely make playing the Mercs more acceptable to me.

I like GRFS style of objective based game play.
I like the idea that a match could be any combination of Players from 2 to 10, and ANY mix of character classes and team balancing...seriously, 2 Spies vs 8 Mercs, if the conditions are good enough, why not.
I don't think there should be too much customization of the match settings unless it's a Private match.

MerriIl
08-15-2012, 05:14 AM
Right. Official servers should have strict limitations. 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5. Private matches could have 1v1 up to 5v5 and with customizations.