How We Can Be Assured of 100% Stealth in Blacklist

[mortpenguin]

The only way we can be sure that the game would allow us to play however we want to is the inclusion of a rating screen at the end of each mission, similar to Chaos Theory. This board would show you statistics like how many guards were alarmed, how many were killed and KNOCKED OUT, bodies found etc. This would be proof that the game doesn't force the player to kill any NPC at any time.

Hitman had the same system in Blood Money, and I'm pretty sure it'll return in Absolution since the rating system has been confirmed.

Force this review system upon the development team, and the emphasis on stealth can be reinforced. But without it, developers would be less inclined to implement FULL STEALTH.

[Andre202]

Agreed. Have already suggested a similar thing for Assassin's Creed so the Developers will be pushing more for Social Stealth.

[CoastalGirl]

Let me start out by saying that I'm a ghoster, so obviously I love the rating systems from the past games (just not so much when it gave me a -400% or whatever it was that I got my first time attempting Kinshasa...darn LoS stealth...).

However, some players dislike them because they basically tell you whether or not you're playing the game "correctly", and that can be limiting. That said, I'm not sure why stats alone, without a score, could be that bad. They did a simple version for D-Ops already, and hopefully it would encourage the devs to ensure that each mission could be played stealthily, too.

[sameer_monier]

Let's NOT have a rating system, instead let's have a more REALISTIC State List.

Include everything you just mentioned, but without the %, Ghosting isn't that realistic per say, not every mission in real life is Ghost-able.

So a State List like the one you get in SCC's D-Ops would be really good IMO.

[JaRuTo]

Rating system is a must have. I can't imagine Splinter Cell game without this.

[michaelanjello]

WHat i think they will do is this:

The more you play a certain type of style: panther, shooting, ghost, the more you will be rewarded in terms of money for competing missions while playing that style. Most likely certain types of gear and gadgets will become available the better you play a certain style. That way you get rewarded for playing the game as ghost, for example. Beland mentioned in one of the interviews that ghost players will be able to unlock leg wear that makes them sneak quieter.

...if you so chose to do that

[newhenpal]

Let's NOT have a rating system, instead let's have a more REALISTIC State List...Ghosting isn't that realistic per say, not every mission in real life is Ghost-able.

You have got to be kidding me. A Conviction/Blacklist fan need not fret about what is and isn't realistic. It still amazes me how some of you embrace the direction this series has gone and yet still find it in you to get hung up over what you deem an "unrealistic addition". But I digress.

A rating system is reasonable. They may try to reward more vicious players; this is to be expected. So long as they also reward more non-lethal gameplay it will all balance out. Well, not really, but it's the most one can ask.

[Andre202]

They have three player types they are aiming. So it could be a bit like Hitman where you get at the end a rating and a title. Ghost, Panther, (take whatever for Action).

[coltcat]

However, some players dislike them because they basically tell you whether or not you're playing the game "correctly".
god, really!? gamers are this fragile these day? tbh I've never meet anyone like that.
its like having a racing game without lap times, MP shooter without kill death ratio.
I could say if creators wants more cinematical experience so no rating screen between chapters might makes some sense.
but the fact players feeling can be hurt with that thing totally blew my mind.


Let's NOT have a rating system, instead let's have a more REALISTIC State List.

Include everything you just mentioned, but without the %, Ghosting isn't that realistic per say, not every mission in real life is Ghost-able.

So a State List like the one you get in SCC's D-Ops would be really good IMO.
but we got auto headshot/punch 50 men to death counter. kinda defeat the logic.

[sameer_monier]

You have got to be kidding me. A Conviction/Blacklist fan need not fret about what is and isn't realistic. It still amazes me how some of you embrace the direction this series has gone and yet still find it in you to get hung up over what you deem an "unrealistic addition". But I digress.

A rating system is reasonable. They may try to reward more vicious players; this is to be expected. So long as they also reward more non-lethal gameplay it will all balance out. Well, not really, but it's the most one can ask.
yup I am a SCC/BL fan, happy now ?!, oh wait was that supposed to be an insult or what !!!
Cause I thought you were praising me for being more open minded than you.




but we got auto headshot/punch 50 men to death counter. kinda defeat the logic.
So what ?!, can't you make up how you did on your own ?!, do you really NEED the game to tell you how good or not so good you were !!!

[CoastalGirl]

god, really!? gamers are this fragile these day? tbh I've never meet anyone like that.
its like having a racing game without lap times, MP shooter without kill death ratio.
I could say if creators wants more cinematical experience so no rating screen between chapters might makes some sense.
but the fact players feeling can be hurt with that thing totally blew my mind.I doubt anyone's crying about it. ;)

My point was more about how the lack of a traditional "rating" system fits with their trying to reach a broader audience. IMO, of course.


do you really NEED the game to tell you how good or not so good you were !!!I don't need it, but I won't lie - my OCD likes seeing 100%.

[sameer_monier]

I don't need it, but I won't lie - my OCD likes seeing 100%.
haha :D, well all of us got that part of us that want to feel really special, by conquering the game on hardest difficulty, or getting perfect store, even me to be honest, I still remember playing DA for the first time and not getting a perfect score in the first mission, and I was like WTH !!!, replayed a couple of times till I got it :P (but at the end of it, I felt I didn't do it like a real agent would)

well as someone suggested here before, a system similar to Hitman would be cool, where the passive and agrro style are both rewarded, cause to be honest everyone does the job his own way, that's the special thing about being a Spec Ops :D

[cacho12]

Rating system is a must for me. Even if Ubi were to release a screen shot of a stats chart at the end of a mission that would go a long way to calming my fury/rage/wrath.
If I can't get my 100% stealth ratings accross all missions then I'm not interested in SCBL.

But that's just me.

[Andre202]

They had a "rating system" in Conviction too. It was in Deniable Ops. I suggest the ratings only to come on the hardest difficulty. How is that?

[michaelanjello]

They had a "rating system" in Conviction too. It was in Deniable Ops. I suggest the ratings only to come on the hardest difficulty. How is that?
i like it.

[The_5_Freedoms]

They had a "rating system" in Conviction too. It was in Deniable Ops. I suggest the ratings only to come on the hardest difficulty. How is that?
That wasn't so much of a rating system as a record of your mission performance.

It didn't take your mission performance and say "67% Stealth" or "82% Action", it just listed how many times you did certain actions and how long it took for you to complete the objective.

[coltcat]

I doubt anyone's crying about it. ;)

My point was more about how the lack of a traditional "rating" system fits with their trying to reach a broader audience. IMO, of course.

I don't need it, but I won't lie - my OCD likes seeing 100%.
well,I guess devs can put ratings on the menu so you can check how you've done on individual mission in the past
or in the briefing screen between missions as a "status of last mission" option you can click
to tone down rating's "in your face" factor so players interesting to know how they did can check on that.

[shobhit7777777]

You have got to be kidding me. A Conviction/Blacklist fan need not fret about what is and isn't realistic. It still amazes me how some of you embrace the direction this series has gone and yet still find it in you to get hung up over what you deem an "unrealistic addition". But I digress.

A rating system is reasonable. They may try to reward more vicious players; this is to be expected. So long as they also reward more non-lethal gameplay it will all balance out. Well, not really, but it's the most one can ask.

Thats because you fail to see the gameplay style we, as legacy and SCC fans have adopted in Conviction. And also the reason why you dislike the direction. I approached Conviction the same way I approached Chaos Theory - Believability and Realism
I imposed certain rules on myself in both games to get the most hardcore and authentic experience. Both playstyles are can be equally immersive and authentic...it is entirely dependant on the player.

I don't know about you but I like to invest something back into the game....Imagination.

[CoastalGirl]

haha :D, well all of us got that part of us that want to feel really special, by conquering the game on hardest difficulty, or getting perfect store, even me to be honest, I still remember playing DA for the first time and not getting a perfect score in the first mission, and I was like WTH !!!, replayed a couple of times till I got it :P (but at the end of it, I felt I didn't do it like a real agent would)My inability to get 100% on that first mission is what brought me to the forum in the first place - the silly thing was bugged! ;)


well as someone suggested here before, a system similar to Hitman would be cool, where the passive and agrro style are both rewarded, cause to be honest everyone does the job his own way, that's the special thing about being a Spec Ops :DI'm honestly not that familiar with the Hitman games, especially the recent ones... I tried the first three, but I'm a L&S player, and I just don't connect with the "hide in plain sight" style. Anyway, I do think I know what you mean about the rating system, and that could work with the new SC style.


well,I guess devs can put ratings on the menu so you can check how you've done on individual mission in the past
or in the briefing screen between missions as a "status of last mission" option you can click
to tone down rating's "in your face" factor so players interesting to know how they did can check on that.IIRC CT and DA had the mission percentages visible when you select the mission, too, at least when replaying. It's honestly been a little while since I played them...I'm overdue.

[Andre202]

That wasn't so much of a rating system as a record of your mission performance.

It didn't take your mission performance and say "67% Stealth" or "82% Action", it just listed how many times you did certain actions and how long it took for you to complete the objective.

Well, you can that percentage for yourself. I looked up what is the most difficult thing to do in Conviction. So I killed everyone stealthy with CQC and at the and you have there:

50 Kills
50 Stealth Kills
50 CQC Kills

For me, that was the 100% rating for a Ghost player.

[harbi-117]

Well, you can that percentage for yourself. I looked up what is the most difficult thing to do in Conviction. So I killed everyone stealthy with CQC and at the and you have there:

50 Kills
50 Stealth Kills
50 CQC Kills

For me, that was the 100% rating for a Ghost player.

Whoa, you just gave me an awesome flashback Andre

still got the link for the photo :)
No EMPs, no flashbangs, no Mark & Execute and not a single bullet fired... my most intense SCC match, soo satisfying.
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4075/4863309665_5cd534d77e.jpg

[Andre202]

I am doing this all the time, I added another challenge. I leave everything the way it was, no shooting, everything in one playthrough. ;)

[CoastalGirl]

I am doing this all the time, I added another challenge. I leave everything the way it was, no shooting, everything in one playthrough. ;)I do that, too, but it's a pain when you have to restart...

It's not that I'm necessarily demanding a free save system or anything like that, but there's no quick way to restart a mission (or checkpoint, for that matter) in SCC.

[Andre202]

I do that, too, but it's a pain when you have to restart...

It's not that I'm necessarily demanding a free save system or anything like that, but there's no quick way to restart a mission (or checkpoint, for that matter) in SCC.

Exactly. You need to go back to the lobby and start again.
I only got through St Peterburg and the DLC levels. The other ones are really a pain and if you play that way you get to know a lot of issues in the game like for example the Sound system. Other then that there is also a lot of trial & error. Sometimes the NPCs are standing in a position where the only way to kill them is a bullet. I always restart when the NPCs are standing in such positions. I suggest in SC6 they should move a lot more.

[CoastalGirl]

Exactly. You need to go back to the lobby and start again.
I only got through St Peterburg and the DLC levels. The other ones are really a pain and if you play that way you get to know a lot of issues in the game like for example the Sound system. Other then that there is also a lot of trial & error. Sometimes the NPCs are standing in a position where the only way to kill them is a bullet. I always restart when the NPCs are standing in such positions. I suggest in SC6 they should move a lot more.Yep. The random spawn patterns work well in terms of replayability, but they make the difficulty random, too. I think we've all seen that certain patterns are much easier to stealth through...

What got me in D-Ops was starting with good patterns and then getting a lousy one at the end, killing my super sneaky run and basically negating all the work I'd done.

[michaelanjello]

There should be other things on that sheet as well. Such as lights shot out, bodies found, doors bashed. Bullets shot. And gadgets used. Plus much more. Pretty much an after report when you report to hq. 4E gives you a performance report on how well you did, and what you could improve on.

And having that % sign always makes the player feel more accomplished. Or there should be a bar. If the bar is one way, then its 100% stealth, if its the other way, its 100% merc. And if its in the middle, then its panther. I think that would be nice. Of course it would give you the percentage for your stealthiness and for youre merciness. ( made that up, haha):p

[Andre202]

In Russian Embassy for example I get up to the fourth stage, but in the room with the bar where you cannot hide anywhere since everything is lit-up, it's a pain in the *** to get those five guys there down. Without being seen and without them seeing a body or being distracted.

[coltcat]

In Russian Embassy for example I get up to the fourth stage, but in the room with the bar where you cannot hide anywhere since everything is lit-up, it's a pain in the *** to get those five guys there down. Without being seen and without them seeing a body or being distracted.
http://i.imgur.com/cX38Y.jpg
that room is the perfect example of stealthproof pattern. even go through most crowded mozkok ground is easier than that.
anyone who wrote that sequence obviously didnt consider CQC-through possibility.

[Andre202]

Nice. You really need to be lucky though with positioning of the NPCs.

[JaRuTo]

Before this game bored me, I tried the same thing
http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/105805020-3.jpg

You know what was a step backwards in terms of artificial intelligence Conviction of Chaos Theory? The fact that the guards had little interest left behind an open door for us. The only situation in which react were such that as they stood in front of the door that opens their eyes, lol.

[Andre202]

You know what was a step backwards in terms of artificial intelligence Conviction of Chaos Theory? The fact that the guards had little interest left behind an open door for us. The only situation in which react were such that as they stood in front of the door that opens their eyes, lol.
That's right but sometimes it was also unrealistic because the NPCs seemed to know how everything looked before you were there.

[sameer_monier]

Technically speaking as Shobhit used to say, SCC AI is more aggressive than the older titles, like a different AI all together, and I found something that personally I appreciate it in SCC, when you are in cover (Dark) and a guard passes you while you are like 2feets away from him, he actually feels you, panic, and then attack, that is something I found stupid AI where guards passed me like I was think air.

Regarding the AI in SCC (Aggressively speaking) I want them to react much faster, in the demo for example the guards were really slow in reactions, probably cause the demo was played on easy, but I would like the guard to fire as soon as a detection appear, and to be super lethal, hence adding to the tactical feeling.

On the Ghosting hand, I would like they to be aware of the environment more, like in SCC if I am standing too close to someone, he would feel it, and not just passes me like I am thin air

[liquid_rev]

Off to bed, it's been a long day, I'll be back tomorrow, but I just wanted to add one more voice to the ''MORE STEALTH! LIKE CHAOS THEORY! PLEASE!''
votes.

Double Agent had it's moments, but was SO flawed... and I'm a PS player, so no Conviction for me - and as someone who ranks SC:CT as one of his top 3 games EVER...
...I really wasn't bothered, it looked so awful.

Please, Ubi - you know you can do it.
Make Blacklist the game that restores the SC name to it's rightful glory. Ta!
Night, all!

[michaelanjello]

Yeah I noticed that in SCC the guards had secttors. A guard should follow you throughout most of the mission if you keep making him suspicious or he starts shooting at you/ he knows were you are. If you get caught, and start running away, the guards should follow you throughout the game. They shouldnt stop at a certain barrier and keep searching youre area. If you screw up enough and dont take out guys or dont lose them, there should even be a point where all the guards from the entire level could follow you to end of the game. Unless theres a physical barrier seperating you from them.