So does this mean Fisher executed Reed?

[The_5_Freedoms]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCKyWu6D-YM#t=04m40s


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDmhIUgde1Y#t=02m57s

[Puppet627]

Does it really matter? He's dead.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Who cares? At this point the story is dead to me. I don't mind 4E or anything but its the story from which it came out of. Double Agent, while not a fan favorite, had a realistic (or realish) story all well within the boundaries of a Tom Clancy game. Mr. Clancy may have wanted a few parts altered but all in all, I'm sure he's fine with it or would be if he read the story, dialogue, and plot. SCC on the other hand, I'm pretty sure he'd shake his head and shed a tear for the way that it's a mockery of everything he stood for when it came to Splinter Cell and probably have him going "I shouldnt have sold my name..."

I don't care what anyone says, the plot doesn't make any sense. Why would 3E have it's own headquaters? WITH A HUGE SYMBOL IN THE LOBBY?? I thought it was a "blacker than black ops" group. Sam didn't exist. I bet they have very few files even: I'm sure all the iles come from the main NSA. 3E never had it's own HQ. That's stupid, just watch the cutscenes in Chaos Theory, they show very plainly that it's located somewhere within the halls of the NSA. If anything, they'd be located UNDERGROUND....not in the highest offices of the NSA with a view of the city, it even seems like an underground bunker when they show it in Pandora Tomorrow and Chaos Theory. Almost like the batcave. Not Wayne Tower.

The whole purpose of DA, driving Sam to the edge is completely negated by the worst soap opera revelation in Conviction: Sarah didn't really die! OOOH! Plot twist! Deepconnection with Sam!!!! Ugh. So terrible. And the whole excuse of giving him rage mechanics and only lethal takedowns "because he's pissed and wants to know what happened to his daughter" doesn't make a lick of sense...know why? Because Sam was able to take on another job shortly after her death. He needed to. Otherwise he would've shut down. Lambert, his friend, gave him an important job that he knew only Sam could complete. It'd bring back the Sam he knew. The end of DA is where it gets a bit....wonky. I'm going to go off what I know: the 360 version. If Sam was a fugitive, Lambert could have easily met with people and proven that Sam was an asset not a liability, he was not a terrorist. Especially when I can earn the "best" ending (as in what I take to be the true ending since it says "To Be Continued") without having to kill the helicopter pilot, blowing up the cruise ship, killing Hisham OR killing Lambert. You can literally do the most menial and minimal tasks for the JBA like disposing of the bodies and earn the best ending. So Sam being SO PISSED that he literally kills everyone in his way despite knwoing that many probably have no idea what's really going on. He was never like that. Even as an agent under fire and stuff, he would disobey direct orders if it meant keeping his conscious. He would NOT abandon that unless it was to save his daughter...which we have a flashback mission in Essentials I believe where he does that. So not only does Double Agent and every other game detailing Sam's character, but also conviction itself negates it by having himlearn his daughter is alive in the SECOND mission. Not only that but he gets confirmation she's alive in the third. Why would he risk that? Where is his anger coming from? Oh, well losing years of his life--oh waitaminute. I thought he lost that time because he was a fugitive because he killed Lambert, the only man who could testify on his behalf that he wasn't a terrorist. RIGHT. Because Sam would do that.

Lambert. Like Sam would ever have killed Lambert just to keep his cover. BULL. SH*T. He saves nameless pilots that he has no connection to in Seoul so that they aren't burned up by the airstrike that Lambert calls in, despite it going against direct orders from Lambert. Know why? Because medals don't help him sleep at night. He refused to follow those orders in order to keep his humanity and morality. Why would he kill Lambert when he knew the JBA were already rushing around because the FBI were outside? They were already in a panic. At this point, Sam just needed to stop them, cover or no cover. Sam's not an idiot. He would have known going in, that there was a risk he'd be labeled a terrorist. So not only would Sam not kill Lambert because of their past together and because of his morals, but just on the sensible side, he'd realize that by killing the head of Third Echelon, his handler, and one of the few who could testify on his behalf at a trial or something....it makes no sense. And it would never have gone to a trial. It would have ended with with Lambert proving to the joint chiefs that Sam was not a terrorist.

Also...when Sam couldn't trust anyone...why would he go to Coste? e's a war buddy, they've been through hell together....oh like Shetland right? Seriously, what a poor decision Sam.

Not only that but the EMPs in the game make no amount of sense and seem to act differently when the plot calls for it. Your EMP fries everything in the area....EXCEPT YOUR GEAR. Oh that's because they're in a bag that is sealed off from the effects of the EMP. Okay....right. Fine. I'll accept that B.S. BUT WAIT. YOUR GOGGLES ARE FINE TOO!!!! No explanation for that? Oh okay game. It doesn't even mess with your goggles in the LEAST. Let alone fry your face off...but wait...that wouldn't happen right? I mean it doesn't with your magical goggles that aren't even close to real yet unlike the previous goggles....OH wait...you mean it fries that one thug guy at White Box...? Well that's because he should've been Sam Fisher, man whom EMPs don't effect. Wait you mean, it doesn't extend to vehicles? Dang. Sam isn't entirely safe! Maybe his daughter and Vic negate Sam's magic and thus when the EMP wave hits them, that's why the helicopter falls down. Waitaminute....WHY WOULD THEY FLY TOWARD WHERE THEY KNEW EMPS WERE GOING TO BE DETONATED. ARE THEY F**KING STUPID??? Well anyway...good thing that some of Sam's magic powers weren't negated because Vic may have been fried at the controls like that other guy if Sam wasn't onboard. Now they crash.
"I'm not leaving my daughter!" Good father.
"Go Sam, she;s fine!"
"No!"
"I am dad!"
"No!"
"You needa stop them! She;s fine"
"Oh okay, I'm sure there's not going to be guys CRAWLING all over this crash site. I'll go!" Guys come in. Sam kills them "Oh, guess I was wrong...well I bet no one else will come when they don't respond nor on their own. That and we're in a practical warzone in the streets of D.C. ...I'm sure absolutely NOTHING could go wrong with Sarah and Vic." Like...what . I can't even adequately describe the SHEER STUPIDITY of the five year old writing to Conviction. And the canon they made up.
Splinter Cells...the most secretive covert ops agents for America....like to not use silencers and act like simple SWAT teams. Uh...okay. STEALTHY. Grim, the computer nerd who doesn't like violence and NEVER EVER EVER showed an interest in field work WHATSOEVER...suddenly becomes a cold blooded killer like Sam. What. did they BOTH drink some crazy drugged up koolaid together? Was Lambert not invited? Racist. Also...she apparently died her hair BRIGHT RED as opposed to her natural Auburn that she was always shown with.

None of the game makes sense. Double Agent did. But the way in which they portrayed the events of DA in SCC do not, such as Sam killing his best friend. It doesn't make sense. It was a joke to the SC legacy. The co-op plot it okay. Terrorists get access to EMP missiles or something right? Still not the greatest but it at least felt like an SC plot to an extent. SCC was like someone watched a season of 24, vaguely remembered the plot and twists of the episodes and half way through realized there were previous games in the series and so "tied it in" with the previous gamewithout having played one of the SCs. It's terrible. And that's all without touching on the unrealistic nature of Sam's acrobatics in the game. *rolls eyes*

Sorry for the rant but at this point, I don't care at all about the story and want it to be a strict "Sam vs. terrorists" story without even mentioning the previous game. At this point they've shot themselves repeatedly in the foot and I'm only interested in the gameplay and D-Ops and maybe the co-op. Either way...the story will never feel the same (for the worse) unless they do a reboot or make SC7 a true sequel to DA which will never happen. Sorry for the long comment but the story of SCC is so easily made fun of that I had to point out why I really and honestly don't give a crap about whether he killed Reed or not.

[kalle90]

Atleast in the old-gen DA Sam didn't get to personally shoot Lambert, but he could choose to send some files that either reveal Lambert as an agent or cover his tracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u66rAUUnLdM at 3:20

Speaking of which, Williams was the Reed of old-gen DA, but he is nowhere to be found in Conviction. Just more confusion. As the series goes on there are more and more holes.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Oh yeah. Ugh. I knew I'd forget one of the holes. There's no mention of him whatsoever in SCC. He just....turned into Reed. Whu--how?

SCC is such a mockery of SC, Tom Clancy, and just story writing in general. Hence why I'm only hoping singleplayer missions play well in Blacklist and that D-Ops and co-op have good missions and stuff.

[The_5_Freedoms]

Sorry for the rant
I think it deserves its own thread.


I really and honestly don't give a crap about whether he killed Reed or not.
I know he's still dead either way but I'm just pointing out that ,logically (heh), if Sam is returning in Blacklist then he would have had to execute Reed rather than spare him.


Oh yeah. Ugh. I knew I'd forget one of the holes. There's no mention of him whatsoever in SCC. He just....turned into Reed. Whu--how?
Williams was in Essentials too. He was trying to frame Sam for Lambert's death (well, Sam did kill Lambert but he didn't want to) and turn everybody against him. Redding and Grim were trying to exonerate Sam by gathering evidence of Williams' conspiracy against Sam.

Both Double Agent and Essentials had Williams all set up to be the villain in the next game (before it was scrapped).

See for yourself (the videos will skip forward to the relevant parts):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM427pYfEyE#t=10m26s


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVso0Qr7xVw#t=09m30s

Then in Conviction he's mysteriously absent and Sam isn't a fugitive.

[kalle90]

Just more fuel for the "This is a reboot" argument. Or more accurately a spiritual successor.

Gameplaywise Conviction is barely a sequel. Storywise they just took the premise of "Sam has lost everything and even 3E betrayed him and everyone", so Sam is angry and all his violence is justified. However that's where the similiarities end. In DA it looked like Sam had already accepted Sarah's death, but suddenly in Conviction he is all enraged about it, and he just gets madder when he learns Sarah is alive. So much so that he doesn't even really seem to care about Lambert. His past missions, the JBA one especially isn't even mentioned really. Even the enemies have no idea, they just generally mention Sam has achieved great things and that they needed someone to take the blame. Conviction doesn't seem to really continue from neither the new-gen or the old-gen version of DA. 360 version basically ends with Sam as a fugitive, end of story. PS2 version ends with Sam swearing revenge against Williams. But at the beginning of Conviction Sam is in Malta sipping coffee.

Sam destroyed Reed, 3E and got his revenge as well as got Sarah back. Great, now he can move on or choose to retire to be with his daughter...

But NO. Instead he is given his own agency to lead and he goes ramboing all over the globe caring little for his own health, or the lives of anyone else. What? Did the events of Conviction change Sam so much he decided every threat of U.S. must be killed and destroyed, and he wants to kill them all personally?

"**** talibans, launch the missles Grim. What? Some of them might be fathers forced to work with these terrorists? Who cares I'm your boss Grim launch the * bombs now! Kill them all **** it! What?! I should be sneaky so I can access their files and get to the leader unnoticed so he won't escape? No you idiot! All these men are criminals and need to die, if the leader gets away with important intel I find him later anyway"

[newhenpal]

Doesn't matter. If Sam doesn't, Grim does. You can bet there'll be no mention of who got blood on their hands in Blacklist so as to not confuse any newcomers.

But as for who probably did it, I guarantee you that it was Sam. And why not? Dude's shooting a bunch of mooks he's barely seen in their skulls in the Blacklist gameplay trailer. There is no way he would spare this EVULDOER after he kept him from his daughter.

[KexN]

Conviction would work well if we'd actually had some backstory of what happened to 3E after DA. It's highly possible 3E got given alot more work load after home grown terrorists manage to get a nuclear bomb into New York city, and thus became more 'mainstream'. Reed taking over isn't all that odd either. Lambert being killed was in order to make sure Emielle didn't blow the bomb right there, as he'd quite happily go up with it. Sarah coming back didn't bother me either, the Lambert monologue was actually quite good imo. The writing of the story could of done with being fleshed out, but at its core I think it worked.

I have no problem with Convictions story, however I'm not liking how they've come to the current status of the story with Sams return in Blacklist. Just doesn't make sense.