View Full Version : What Blacklist needs to do to work.

06-05-2012, 09:25 PM
First I'l say I enjoyed Conviction. The new gameplay mechanics worked well with the story and were fluid and fun. Being off the books Sam was able to use all his talents to the fullest, negating the need for the slow gameplay of the originals ( That I love ). Whilst I would love the new SC to have both fast paced and stealth options, perhaps based around a reward system based on both gameplay styles as incentives, I simply do not believe that will be the case.

This isn't though my probllem with the game. No, my problem comes from the seemingly unimaginitive way the ( whoever ) have moved forward with the characterization, and the world of SC in general.

My main gripe of course comes from the lack of Ironside. A SC game without Ironside will be like a cake without the backing powder, it simply falls flat and leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Now I believe Ironside probably didn't want to do the project, so I wonder then how it didn't come into anyones minds, and if it did how they didn't decide on it, to move on from Sam Fishers character? That IMO is the only logical progression from that scenario, yet for some reason Ubi have decided to go in the opposite direction.

Removing Sam wouldn't of had nearly as bad a backlash as removing Ironside as Sams voice actor, especially regarding the possible circumstances of Ironside not wanting the part. This would even work with the story of SC and what we saw of Sam in the last game. Sam being the lead negating any character progression of the last game.

A new agent would give Ubisoft a new lease on the game, and invite in a whole host of potential new gameplay mechanics, stories, histories and character developments.

The premise just seems to not of been thought out particularly well, which brings me to fourth Echelon. I mean really? Lets add one and call that story development? That is classed as blacker than black? The third echelon headquarters are blown up in the capitol and its leaders involved in a president level coup de tat on the government. So to keep everything under wraps we call the new agency fourth echelon? I'm sorry but that just screams poor writing to me, and something reminiscent of childrens cartoons.

I couldn't care about gameplay mechanics, clearly the series is moving in a different direction. However Sam Fisher is Michael Ironside, and adding a number to an ex secret agencys name is not going to fool anyone, especially with an ex head ( Grim ) as a head of the new one. Honestly, that truely is hack writing. If they simply reskin the character, change the names in the voice dialog, call the agency ANYTHING but fourth echelon ( Hell, why name it? ) There will literally be no reason this game won't feel flat regarding the story, and actually perhaps become a true new age to the series.

06-05-2012, 10:32 PM
I get why people are mad at Ironside. They should have moved on. They have a whole agency to toy with. But why are so many people mad about Fourth Echelon? Third Echelon wasn't simply named that for no reason. In the first game when you talk to Grim in the training mission (easter egg), she talks about how she was apart of Second Echelon "before the burnout". And that "she doesn't even have clearance to think about it." There was First Echelon, then Second Echelon. Each had characteristics such as intel gathering that would lead to the formation of the new initiative, Third Echelon which would send in lone agents, Splinter Cells, into the field. After the (poorly written, mind you) story of Conviction. (I mean truly poor writing...anyone off the street could have written that) they would have to reorganize. Just like Grim was apart of Second Echelon and then Third, it's possible for the Splinter Cell program to be carried over.

What I have a problem with is, even if Ironside still voiced Sam which I'm with you -- either he voices him or this should be a new agent, it makes absolutely no god **** sense for Sam to be the head of the group as well as the main guy in the field. That doesn't happen. Lambert didn't do that...our higher ups don't do that. That's because you can't truly call the shots from down in the action. Think of it this way. It's like walking in a lifesize maze. Someone above you can see all the paths...you, while on the ground, can only see the immediate area. You have no idea which oaths lead to dead ends. This applies metaphorically as well. Lambert, being above you and the maze can see everything, while you are the person who will finish the maze physically. A splinter Cell is an instrument, not the brains. They're intelligent, yes, but they can only do so much. Think about it. Sam doesn't really get all the algorithms and stuff that Shadownet and Shetland were using while Grim did. Lambert knew how to talk to the bureacrats and the president as well as being privy to info coming in (much easier to get info froma secure location than down behind enemy lines. They then relay the safely acquired info to the OPSAT. Imagine having to be trained in the knowledge of computer warfare/algorithms, bioweapons, and whatever else AS WELL AS the weapons, athelticism required, etc. It'd be **** near impossible to ever have any agents and to get missions done.

That is why Sam as head agent as well as head of Fourth Echelon is beyond stupid and I hope they fix that or something.

06-06-2012, 01:20 AM
Well in that case I can totally see the fourth Echelon thing, although with the events of Conviction and third becoming so 'open' I'd of thought the top brass would want to steer away from the word Echelon as far as possible. Convictions story could of been better imo had the events been more fully fleshed out, with more background on Tom Reeds and his closer aids take over and 'modernization' of the agency. The problem with the story most of all is the lack of characterization in the antagonists. Regardless, I really enjoyed the game.

In that case my only problem with this game is Ironside. Sam Fisher disapeared after conviction and with good reason. He wanted to spend time with the daughter he thought was dead. Now we find him as the head of the agency, whilst killing people on the ground. Just doesn't make sense imo.

No, we need to leave Sam in the past and perhaps bring him back in a cameo in future. Have us as a new agent.

A new agent I'l add who could of been part of third echelon during Tom Reed and perhaps helped Grim because he had decent sensibilities, Hence his choice for fourth. An agent unrivaled in testing and ability, with a more modern head when it comes to technology. Which would be why he is given much more direct access to technologies, such as the predator we see in the demo.

Just anything but a 50 year old Sam Fisher with a voice of someone half his age, running around like some 20 year old Olympic gymnast. A Sam Fisher who is now a techno expert instead of technophobe. Who has done a U-turn on the things he'd decided were important to him. Who as you said can understand everything around him without the bigger picture of the people back at the office. It just feels like they are destroying a character they've spent 10 years building up.

Also, have Grim as the agencies head. It was quite clear from Conviction this is the role she was heading with her ties to the president. Also, has Grim got a new voice aswell? WTF is with companies recently? First Hitman, now this. A real shame.

I just find it a shame, and quite gutting. The series took a different turn in Conviction but it was one I could roll with as it felt like a natural progression. This, whilst gameplay wise feels like another step forward, just seems so out of place for the 'universe'. I've heard EndWar had Fisher as the head of an agency. I just hope they are not taking such poorly thought out turns in the story to get to that, it'd be a real shame, especially considering the possible alternatives for that ending.

06-06-2012, 01:43 AM
The main thing is the difficulty because Conviction was too easy the rest I welcome with open hands.

06-06-2012, 02:17 AM
We need Ironside or a new agent,clearly from seeing how Archer reacted to things in Convictions Co-op, not all of the Splinter Cells were completely bad and ruthless beyond human reasoning...
So bringing in a New Agent would make sense...
Plus at the end of Conviction Sam said he's done...he's tired of everything. So let him step down and appear as a cameo or as an advisor or somthing!!

on to the voice of Sam, it doesnt make sense, it doesnt fit the characters age or mind set...Eric(no offence to him) sounds very young and upbeat...
not at all like a very cynical war veteran whose seen years of damage and done things most men would be afraid to think about...
Eric is in his 30's or something right?
Sam was 52 when we last saw him!
Theres no experience in Erics voice, which is why I am (and alot of other people) are particularly angry at you Ubi...so please Ubi...bring back Ironside as the voice or bring in a new agent...

06-06-2012, 05:46 AM
I understand the change from 3E to 4E. I think we all pretty much expected Sam and Grim to branch off but as someone mentioned before, you would think they would want to completely drop the Echelon name after what happened..

Also, have Grim as the agencies head. It was quite clear from Conviction this is the role she was heading with her ties to the president. Also, has Grim got a new voice aswell? WTF is with companies recently? First Hitman, now this. A real shame.
I'm annoyed by this too. Her voice is also very recognizable and iconic as Grim (lets pretend the PT recasting didn't happen). How could they change the voice actors for the two main characters and expect us not to be pissed?!

06-06-2012, 05:03 PM
They should show a ten minute video of Sam hiding in a shadow and remaining undetected.

Chaos Isaac
06-06-2012, 06:05 PM
....it'd be better if they scrapped the American aspect and just used Voron as a base for the new game.

06-06-2012, 06:11 PM
They should show a ten minute video of Sam hiding in a shadow and remaining undetected.

Not what classic SC is about, though you can do that in both them and Conviction. Instead ghost through and entire level, or use a couple of LTL moves to show them off.