Thoughts from the ComDev...

[SolidSage]

The knife comes out and gets put away super smooth. So does the pistol, in it's holster. BOOM, that's 5!

[ImaDoctorJim]

The knife comes out and gets put away super smooth. So does the pistol, in it's holster. BOOM, that's 5!

Haha you know what I mean. Obviously when I say "super-glued to your hand", I'm talking about if they make you pick whether to use the knife or not at the start of the mission.

That was funny though. I lol'd.

[SolidSage]

What like part of the pack out? I dunno.
Did I hear you have to use the knife for non lethals or for lethals? It's odd, being here I actually feel like I am missing a lot of intel. Ha.

[Bill-E-Bob]

I just want Ironside.

[SolidSage]

^ I hope so. I think the demo was really aimed at showing a few revivals and then emphasizing the killing in motion development. Hence the high paced aggro approach. They also needed to show a lot in a short space of time, there a lines of people waiting to go in to the mini theaters and watch the demos, so creepy creepy stealth doesn't really show a lot of tech development. (my assumptions).These guys are working man, constant meetings and interviews, loads of scheduling. I was just here as a fan and I had scheduling conflicts, it really is a high pressure production I think, and thats excluding the Media Briefing on day zero that was a massive event squeezed into a tiny window with so little room for error.
I'm betting there will be some stealth surprises for us in the coming months.

[SPROGGY]

That would be cool as long as you could draw/sheathe it on the fly. If they make us choose between having the knife super-glued to your hand or no knife at all, that would be goofy as hell.

I agree that would be lame. You should be able to decide in the moment whether you want to draw the karambit or not. Hopefully they gave us the option.....because I plan on choking out everyone!!!

[J.G.Barnes]

Also, to J.G. Barnes, most of the people in this thread have said, create a new character, not whining about no Ironside. I can understand Ubi's need for one actor who can do the voice and motion, but don't fool us by expecting us to suspend disbelief about Sam Fisher. He's older, he's gritty, he's weathered, and he's not an intern who just got his ID. Whatever the reason, if it's not Ironside, it should have been a new character.

Replacing an actor for the same character happens all. the. time. This happens in films, animated works, games etc. You guys act like this is the first time this has ever happened in the history of story telling and somehow Ubi OWES you Michael Ironside as Sam Fisher (and no one else, ya hear!) or you're not buying the game. Come on! That is an awesome level of absurdity.

Ha! There's even an petition in this forum?! This is just ridiculous.

Ironside has voiced Fisher for 10 years. For a whole decade! Ironside has an incredible voice, no doubt about it. The man is mega talented and he is iconic to Sam Fisher. There's no denying that, but this is a sad fact of the business, folks. It's not unique to us.

This fan base really needs to get their priorities straightened out. Because if we don't, Ubi is going to look at us like the whiny little hormonal teenagers we're coming off as, turn the other cheek and walk right back out that door. If this is really top priority stuff here, if this really is what our collective voice is shouting, then we're not a fan base worth listening to. A fan base that won't support your game because a voice actor has been switched out? Yeah, guys, good luck with being taken seriously as fans with constructive and meaningful ideas.

[michaelanjello]

Well Im happy to hear that this anger about Michael Ironside is subsiding. When I got on here on Sunday, it was like Nuclear Fallout. People swearing and ranting about Sam. And people complaining about the game. But I've been with Ubi this entire time. I just have this feeling that they got it down this time around. They're doing things right...or at least better than before. They have started to redeem themselves, not completely, but started.

But it's good that Im hearing constructive criticism and discussions about the game. Its like trying to put together a puzzle that we only have a few parts to.

Im curious though. I wonder if there is a stealth upgrade that allows night vision and heat vision. Or maybe the sonar goggles are the upgraded version?
ps. is it just me or does Grim look hot all of a sudden?

[txcombatvet]

I don't care what is done to single player, the only way for any Splinter Cell to succeed is to go old school Multiplayer, The original XBOX Splinter Cell, Pandora Tomorrow, Chaos Theory, and yes even Double Agent had it's parts of SC greatness. We BEG for the old Splinter Cell online Multiplayer games, they created an experience that made online gaming unique and downright frightful at times.

I made life long friends playing those original Splinter Cell games, and there is a large number of gamers just like me that want them back. Please just give us the old Splinter Cell Spies versus Mercs experience. We know it needs newer graphics, gadgets, maps, and the like; But don't kill the franchise by messing with success( like what was done with SC Conviction).

There is nothing like sneaking up on a machine gun toting Merc and snapping their neck. If you fail to heed the warnings the game will flop, I wouldn't want to be the guy that killed the franchise that made Sam Fisher a household name. The voice doesn't mean squat when you are in Multiplayer, that is the key to winning the fans back.

[ImaDoctorJim]

I don't care what is done to single player, the only way for any Splinter Cell to succeed is to go old school Multiplayer, The original XBOX Splinter Cell, Pandora Tomorrow, Chaos Theory, and yes even Double Agent had it's parts of SC greatness. We BEG for the old Splinter Cell online Multiplayer games, they created an experience that made online gaming unique and downright frightful at times.

I made life long friends playing those original Splinter Cell games, and there is a large number of gamers just like me that want them back. Please just give us the old Splinter Cell Spies versus Mercs experience. We know it needs newer graphics, gadgets, maps, and the like; But don't kill the franchise by messing with success( like what was done with SC Conviction).

There is nothing like sneaking up on a machine gun toting Merc and snapping their neck. If you fail to heed the warnings the game will flop, I wouldn't want to be the guy that killed the franchise that made Sam Fisher a household name. The voice doesn't mean squat when you are in Multiplayer, that is the key to winning the fans back.

Keeping Splinter Cell alive isn't what the devs need to worry about. Splinter Cell is DEAD and the devs behind Conviction killed it. I'm hoping that Ubisoft Toronto can bring it back to life, even though we've seen no evidence that old school players who want to knock out guards instead of knife them will get to. Just words from Max with no video to comfort us. (Come on, Max. We've been hurt before (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy's_Splinter_Cell:_Conviction). All we're asking for is a little reassurance that the game will work for us old-schoolers like you're implying it will)

Either way you are aware that Spies Vs Mercs IS back, right? It was announced on the official Splinter Cell Twitter here (https://twitter.com/SplinterCell/status/210482917091184640).

I think that Ubi Toronto will get the multiplayer right at the very least. Multiplayer can be a little more fast-paced and hollywood-ized. I mean, the Shadownet spies have always been a little more limber and confrontational than Fisher; and who would want to spare a merc after sneaking up behind him in PvP? Not this guy.

[greyfox24]

Thank you for the post, Zack. Here's hoping you guys deliver on bringing back some of those classic stealth elements. Conviction was fun, but it wasn't a Splinter Cell game. I was hoping Blacklist would either shift back that direction or literally make it a play-the-way-you-want style that seems to keep popping up on the tongues of Ubi employees.

[NDCRP]

You want to read constructive ideas?
I have some questions also.
They should've hired an actor who sound like the 50 years old man he's playing and not like a 20 years old rookie.
Because i see it's Sam(a little bit younger),but i hear a voice that doesn't suit him AT ALL.
And the story doesn't have any sense taking into account the ending of the preceeding game.
How can he work again with Anna Grimsdottir if he doesn't trust her?
Also,why he's still working for the US government while the only thing that matters to him now is his family,accordind to the last cutscene of SC:C?
I have the bad feeling that the writers of this game don't even know what happened in Conviction.

[JaRuTo]

I know that the show demo, Fisher doesn't have a measure of invisibility and noise (I would like to add to it recording the temperature and radioactivity or maybe something else, it added a freshness to this feature). I hope that you can buy or get the meter before departure of the night mission, because as you planned to flit between the opponents if you don't know how much noise you can do or how much you are hidden? Without this measure it loses any sense in advance ghost stealth...
.

[iusedtoworkhere]

Just in case anyone hasn't come across this in the forums




Sign the petition if you would like to see Ironside back as Sam Fisher…


http://www.change.org/petitions/ubisoft-allow-michael-ironside-to-play-sam-fisher-in-splinter-cell-blacklist (http://www.change.org/petitions/ubisoft-allow-michael-ironside-to-play-sam-fisher-in-splinter-cell-blacklist)





Maybe, just maybe, Ubisoft will listen.

[S.V.]

Hey guys...

The decision to go with a new Sam Fisher in that regard was with the gamer - you - truly in mind.
I love Michael Ironside (I was the guy who did the interviews). I loved Michael Ironside as Sam Fisher.

In order to push the gameplay to tomorrows standards we HAD to make the change; To push the envelope of gameplay and combat. (you watched the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlUnTcjlkd8&feature=plcp), right?)
You've seen Killing in Motion.
...you HAVEN'T seen how it is so much deeper than just pushing a button and watching some slow-mo bullet-time. You will.

Conviction was released in 2010. Blacklist will be out Spring 2013.
Settling for just a voice-over wasn't deemed acceptable for us, when we've got the capabilities to do full performance capture (and I'm a guy who worked in radio for 11 years - I appreciate the power of voice)

...as for the idea of having someone do the physical movements and laying on someone else`s voice? Come on, guys.


The only good thing about, is... You Ubiteam will understand the big mistake when the game comes out.

[SplinterJVCell]

I can easily imagine what Lambert could say after watching the E3 videos: "My god, guys! The development's over"

More seriously there is a thing that I can't understand. I don't know how works the performance capture but why can't they put the voice of an other like they always did before?

Morevoer I think that Sam must have realistic movements like before, not moving and climbing fastly like a monkey, however we loose a big part of Sam's charm.
I know that Sam is not a grand-mother but even me I am unable to realize the moves he did in the first games, and I am still young :p

[Silithusa]

Make Sam the new leader of fourth echolon.
Create a new maincharacter name him Jack,Jim,John,Jason or Jimmy (really cool names!)
Name the game Splinter Cell of Duty: Blacklistwarfare.
Add more gore
Aim for T-rating
and you'll get so much money

[TCSCELL]

Replacing an actor for the same character happens all. the. time. This happens in films, animated works, games etc. You guys act like this is the first time this has ever happened in the history of story telling and somehow Ubi OWES you Michael Ironside as Sam Fisher (and no one else, ya hear!) or you're not buying the game. Come on! That is an awesome level of absurdity.

Ha! There's even an petition in this forum?! This is just ridiculous.

Ironside has voiced Fisher for 10 years. For a whole decade! Ironside has an incredible voice, no doubt about it. The man is mega talented and he is iconic to Sam Fisher. There's no denying that, but this is a sad fact of the business, folks. It's not unique to us.

This fan base really needs to get their priorities straightened out. Because if we don't, Ubi is going to look at us like the whiny little hormonal teenagers we're coming off as, turn the other cheek and walk right back out that door. If this is really top priority stuff here, if this really is what our collective voice is shouting, then we're not a fan base worth listening to. A fan base that won't support your game because a voice actor has been switched out? Yeah, guys, good luck with being taken seriously as fans with constructive and meaningful ideas.

If you want to see all these Objections this way, then all of these feedbacks are meaningless. Yes, ubisoft doesn't owe us anything. But if they are claiming they are listening to their fans, then they should do it.

We're not complaining about lack of Ironside but infact we're complaining about the nonsense story. Why does Sam Fisher look like Benjamin Button? Why is he getting younger every time? His face, his moves, his VOICE! They want to stick to this new style of gameplay, this new Altair/Ezio climbs, this new Rambo approach, fine, we can't do anything about it. But don't tell us he's the Sam Fisher we've all known. Introduce a new protagonist. Like something Hideo Kojima did with MGS2 (Just changing the character part). It's a very great opportunity for Toronto Studio not just for Blacklist but for another Splinter Cell sequels. We are not expecting to have Sam Fisher for eternity. But we want to have him they way we've grown up with.

[KamSolastor]

I really hope that we will be able to play more stealthy - and not just in a 'You took out all 15 people in the area without being detected. Move on to the next area.' like in Conviction. As a game, Conviction was all right. As a Splinter Cell game, Conviction was horrible, in my opinion. Sam Fisher running around with an AK-47?! A SHOTGUN!!? I was very sad to see how much of the original Splinter Cell was ignored with Conviction - not only the removal of almost all of our cool gadgets and most being replaced by a remade version to simply see/kill the guards better, but the story, which somehow made Lambert out to be a buddy-f***** to Sam - anyone who has read the books and played the first three games knows that Lambert would not do anything like that to Sam. And suddenly, Grim is an ice-queen who's really running the show behind the scenes now? I was wondering if I was put into a parallel dimension, because these were nothing like the characters we've been seeing in the first four games. I mean, Sam and Lambert were both in Delta Force together (if I remember my books right, Sam went into a cross-training program, and got his SEAL training there, but was originally Delta). Somehow the trust we've seen between Sam and Lambert all gets thrown away in Conviction, replaced by a cold-blooded politicism. Don't make these mistakes in Blacklist, I beg you Ubisoft.



Edit -
Make Sam the new leader of fourth echolon.
Create a new maincharacter name him Jack,Jim,John,Jason or Jimmy (really cool names!)
Name the game Splinter Cell of Duty: Blacklistwarfare.
Add more gore
Aim for T-rating
and you'll get so much money

Sadly, this seems to be the trend. Everyone looks at CoD and goes ''LOOK AT ALL THE $$'' and they try to copy it instead of actually making their own game. Splinter Cell had a good thing going before it tried to 'fit in'. Splinter Cell isn't supposed to fit in. Splinter Cell is supposed to sneak up behind other games, interrogate them, slit their throats, then hide the body in a dark corner, then move on to the next.

[EmmaJordan]

I am pissed about no Ironside and think it is absolutely ridiculous. This being said, I merely look at it as just another example of this development team either not respecting the franchise or being out of touch with its fan base. At this point, however, I understand that this development is way too far down the road to change this (wish I was wrong).

My objections, primarily, have stemmed from the ridiculous game play shown in the trailer. AIRSTRIKES??? Sam's ability to scale cliffs, buildings, etc. like a monkey. Sam taking on 30 guys in broad day light in a sequence that wouldn't look out of place in Call of Duty. WTF?!

With Conviction, I became resigned to the fact that this development team was completely out of touch with its fan base and did not respect the previoius splinter cell games (Beland is on record on this point... no amount of reassurances now from Zack or anyone can convince me otherwise). I bought Conviction used because, to be honest, I wanted to see if there was any redeeming parts of the game (Deniable Ops was o.k., but certainly did not have the same addictive quality as Spy v. Merc did) but I didn't want to give Ubisoft a cent.

What I found, primarily, was a really short game with very little replayability. There was some fun for an old Splinter Cell die hard like me.... but you really had to work very, very hard to figure out ways to ghost. Ultimately, it wasn't very rewarding.

After venting on this forum for the last few days, I am becoming more willing to see what else is involved in the game, as I haven't decided whether I will buy this one or not. The inclusion of Spy v. Merc probably means that I will, but I may wait to make that decision until I see it (if mark and execute is in it...forget it; no one would ever play Merc).

However, I have seen a few posters try to quiet the criticism by saying, essentially, that "hey we should be quiet or Ubisoft will stop making Splinter Cell altogether". Seriously? Aside from saying that the last Splinter Cell game died with Chaos Theory, I will never be afraid of a company that sells me a product. I need not live in fear of Ubisoft... Ubisoft need not listen to me as a consumer (that is their right and certainly they have chose not to in the past), however, for a company that clearly claims to be reaching out to its fans - well, then they should probably listen to those with concerns and not just those who say how awesome they are.

I am a fan of the traditional stealth games/genre. I am sad to see the ultimate stealth game - the critically acclaimed series - trying to go after the Call of Duty players in a cash grab. If you disagree that the new game play is a bad thing, fine... we are all hear to express our opinions. This is a forum after all. There is no right answer...just our opinions.

[Jazz117Volkov]

You sir are exactly what I was hoping to see.
It's really cool of you to share your thoughts on an, I guess, personal level.
After the new-user-group centric campaign that Conviction followed behind, this is quite refreshing to say the least, though that leads me to my 1st point--but not before I just say welcome in the warmest way possible. [*manly hug]

The opening trailer I've seen and the E3 gameplay demo are quite 'cool' in what they do, but (admittedly I thought the CGI trailer was just too OTT) the gameplay interested me far more. The action is more stylish this time around, more fluid and just looks like more fun, which is good. I liked, nay loved that lot's of classic features have made a return: sticky shocker, body dragging, knife (slicing the tent <3 ) and the improvements made to the established Conviction features, like executing in motion and the execute/takedown looked quite impressive and achieves a decent dose of believability in comparison to how the feature played out in it's 1st outing.

However, that 6 minute demo wasn't enough to convince me of much--it's ridiculous to judge the game from six minutes, but nevertheless, my own intuition and your word are the only things I have to trust. See, the Conviction advertising campaign really made me (and it's fair to assume by their reaction--the rest of the hardcore audience) feel 2nd rate.
Even the stealth focused walkthrough of 3rd Echelon that our comdev did (back then) just felt like Ubi was throwing us a bone... it wasn't even a real ad.
It would be swell if you could, at some point, officially sell the game to fans of stealth, in a non throwing bone kind of way.

And finally, if I may ask a few?
The better part of the last three years have seen a plethora of feedback and ideas flowing around this forum. Could you let us know what kind of impact we've all had on decision made to the 'classic' and/or 'aggro' sides of the gameplay. I know the community here is small, and can't really be used to summarize the feelings and desires of everyone, but still, we are a voice to be considered I should think.
There's been lot's of talk about the Deniable Ops and COOP mode from Conviction--everyone liked that. Has it been taken as a template to use as a base for the new pacing at all--'cause no one wants to feel like the game is poking their back every time they stop to look around.
And other things, like the way the game handles interaction vs athletics, Hand2Hand combat, weapon handling (switching hands) and other features of the gameplay kind.
It would be cool to know what been addressed/changed and/or added (without giving us too much info in an untimely fashion of course)

Anyway, that about does it for now (me tired)
cheers Zack

Jazz

[SolidSage]

I don't think anyone said we should be quiet, as much as we should be civil.
Also, Splinter Cell didn't die, it's a game. I wish people would stop being so dramatic, and leave the theatrics for another venue.

Fricking Titanic fans, wanna be in tears over everything! :) "Your heart WILL go on". ;)
(I know, this is SUPER serious and I shouldn't degrade the memory of a decade old video game by being so light hearted and fickle)

[EmmaJordan]

I don't think anyone said we should be quiet, as much as we should be civil.
Also, Splinter Cell didn't die, it's a game. I wish people would stop being so dramatic, and leave the theatrics for another venue.

Fricking Titanic fans, wanna be in tears over everything! :) "Your heart WILL go on". ;)
(I know, this is SUPER serious and I shouldn't degrade the memory of a decade old video game by being so light hearted and fickle)

Yes, any plea for civility should always insult those with different beliefs as whiners or cry babies. Bravo.

[ImaDoctorJim]

Yes, any plea for civility should always insult those with different beliefs as whiners or cry babies. Bravo.

I think I love you, Emma. I was thinking the same thing when that J.G.Barnes fruit posted on on the last page.

[Warcroft888]

First off can I just say thank you Zack for actually giving us the time of day. We all appreciate the time and concern that you have given to us fans of the best game series in the world (don't argue this point with me ;) ). It's quite refreshing to find such an honest and heartfelt response from PR in this day and age. I am the single largest fan of Splinter Cell. I have played each and every single Splinter Cell game several hundred times over. I absolutely loved the original Splinter Cell and still play it to this day. Pandora Tomorow offered some amazing new levels and some great new gameplay elements. I know you've probably heard this a thousand times but I truly believe (as do millions of other fans out there) that Chaos Theory was the pinnacle of the Splinter Cell series. Great graphics, fantastic new gameplay mechanics which served to reinforce the elements of stealth, a great storyline, and fantastic atmosphere. After Chaos Theory, things went a little ...down hill. Don't get me wrong, Double Agent was a good game. It had some awesome idea's it just didn't always deliver those ideas in the smoothest manner.

Then along came Conviction. To this day I still don't know exactly how I feel about Conviction. Because on the one side you have a kickass game with some of the best action elements I've ever seen in a game. Never in my life have I played a third person game with such good controls. And my God, that cover system!!! That thing was a work of art! Some people didn't like how quickly Sam was crawling along walls and scaling drainpipes. Personally I loved it. And the graphics were pretty **** good too. (You should give those animators a raise). But here's where things start to get a little uncomfortable. Mark & Execute. First off let me just say that its a great system. Its part of the reason why Conviction was such a great action game. But here's the problem. It's just not a Splinter Cell game. And this is what created the dichotomy I spoke of earlier. On the one side, when you look at Conviction on an individual level, its a fantastic action game. But its not a stealth game. Not by a long shot. It feels more like Max Payne than a venerable successor to the previous Splinter Cell titles. Even worse it completely changed Sam's personality. All his moral values, beliefs, and basic principles seemed to have been thrown out of the window. Sam Fisher doesn't like to take lives. He'll do it without hesitation, but only when he absolutely has to. Sam hates killing. This is the most fundamental of principles that has been developed over the course of the first four games. It's the number one thing which defined him as a unique hero. It was a statement that said "You don't have to kill people to be a bad *** hero". Then Conviction comes along and tramples right over it... But here's the thing. To an extent it was believable. Conviction was such a personal story. Sam's daughter was dead and he was actively hunting down those responsible. So in a way it was believable, even acceptable. And maybe that was the whole point of the game. Maybe it wasn't supposed to feel like previous Splinter Cells. Maybe the game was designed delibrately in this manner as a way of representing Sam's emotions. After all, he was no longer a Splinter Cell. But thats all changed. He saved his daughter. He saved the president. In Splinter Cell Blacklist, Sam Fisher has once again picked up the mantle of a Splinter Cell (aka a bad *** motherf***er).

Prior to E3, I was excited as hell for the reveal of the next Splinter Cell game. But when I saw the trailer, and I'm going to be honest... I felt absolutely crushed. Like someone had ripped my heart out through my anal sphincter and smashed it with Thor's Hammer. Every morsel of information I had uncovered regarding the game prior to its E3 presentation suggested that the game would be returning to its roots. Now when someone says "a return to it's roots" you would logically assume that they would mean the original Splinter Cell, or maybe even Chaos Theory (since it is undeniably the pinnacle of stealth gaming). What I saw in that CGI trailer and that 6min demo was anything but a "return to its roots". Now please understand that I'm an open minded person (or atleast I like to think that I am). I understand that ofcourse 6 minutes is not enough to get a good representation of a game in its entirety. But it certainly wasn't a good start. Yes, I know... its common practice in marketing to showcase the most exciting and action filled parts of a game in order to lure in the audience. But here's the thing. It's also common marketing practice to show parts of your game that will appeal to the target audience. So you can understand my concern for me and the rest of the Splinter Cell fans. Things really arent looking good for poor Sam at the moment. It's fair to say that I'm not the only one who is geniunely stressed out about this game (and poor Sam). From the sounds of things, you guys at Ubisoft are having a hard time too. :(.

So here's the problems/concerns that I personally (and no doubt millions of fans out there) have with Blacklist. Now obviously we don't really know all that much about the game, so some of these concerns may be unfounded.

1. Blacklist seems to have a strong focus on action, killing and bloodshed. While I appreciate the return of my much beloved knife, I never expected it to be used quite that way. Here's the fundemental problem: Splinter Cell is a stealth game. What you guys showed us in that trailer had nothing in it that I would remotely classify as stealth. If your not going to maintain the elements of stealth then theres no point in calling it Splinter Cell and there's no point in having Sam Fisher in the game either. You'd be better off just making a whole new IP in that case. You can rely on Mark & Execute to sell the game, but please don't make us rely on it to play the game. Make it an option. Another tool in Sam's vast array of tactics, equipment, and gadgets. That is how you create choice. That is how you empower the gamer. If I want to play the game without ever using Mark & Execute, instead relying on my own skills and stealth to bypass or incapacitate enemies in a non-lethal manner - allow me to do that!!! Don't hold my hand and force me to do things your way or I'll cry RAPE!!!

2. There were no shadows. No light meter. Now I understand that you don't necassarily need shadows in order to sneak past someone. You made that abundantly clear in Double Agent. But shadows, darkness and night time operations are as iconic to the Splinter Cell series as the trident night vision goggles. And now for a lovely segway into my next point...

3. No night vision. Yes I'm a moron. Ofcourse there wasn't any night vision. It's daytime Einstein! But still the only vision mode I saw was that horrible thing called Sonar Vision. I couldn't help but picture Sam saying "I'm Batman!". Now again I stress that I dont really know much about the game and its quite possible that night vision and thermal vision (and maybe EMF vision too? Pretty please?) will be making a return to the game. Now I understand that for the purposes of 'simplification' you guys might be tempted to simply integrate night vision into sonar vision and call it candy. Unfortunetly thats not doing anyone any favors. Developers need to understand that we as gamers respect and enjoy complexity and options. There is a difference between simplification and merely dumbing down to appeal to the masses. But you need to give the masses a chance. You might be pleasantly surprised to find that the masses also enjoy complexity.

4. No SPLITJUMP!!! Seriously do I need to remind you guys of symbolism and icons?

5. Where's the SC-20K (aka the F2000)??? Again an essential icon to the series

6. Perhaps one of the most important of all. LEVEL DESIGN. . Splinter Cell does not = Call of Duty. One of the best things about Chaos Theory was open level design. There were multiple paths to completing objectives. It all boils down to the element of CHOICE. Without choice there is very little replay value. And without replay value there is little value for money. Do see how all of my points in some manner or form will have an impact on your sales? This isn't just about pleasing the fans - its about making the best, most successful game you guys can. Success is directly dependent on happy customers. And Success = PROFIT. So listen carefully. By turning Splinter Cell into another generic third person shooter, you risk all of your fans. Mistake me if I'm wrong, but your fans make up a pretty significant portion of your total customers. If you lose your fans, you will not only lose your sales, but you'll destroy the series.

7. Sam Fisher's personality. Before I get into Sam's unfortunate condition regarding his voice box, I want to first talk about Sam's personality and how its represented in that demo. Hint: It wasn't good. Again things arent looking good for poor Sam. The overall feeling that I got from his rampage was that of a psychotic killler with bloodlust. Now that kind of personality might be cool and bad *** in Call of Duty, but its simply not acceptable for the man I've come to know and love over the last ten years. (If I wasn't staight... I'd marry him). Need I remind you that Sam hates killing. And he's no longer on a personal vendetta of revenge. He was SUPPOSED to calm down. During that demo I kept telling him to chill the f*ck out. But he wouldn't listen. Suddenly the hero who I've come to love and respect has become nothing but a sadistic, amoral murderer. NOT COOL Ubisoft. Not cool at all.

8. His voice. Oh dear God why? This is the single most devastating part of the game. Now, first off can I just say this: Eric Johnson is a great, fantastic voice actor. He's bloody good at what he does. Nobody is questioning this. But it doesn't change the fact that Michael Ironside IS Sam Fisher. Ironside has a feel and understanding for the character that Eric Johnson never will. He is the embodiment of Fisher. Every tone in his voice reverberates though Fisher's emotions. He is the only voice actor capable of bringing Fisher to life. There's just no way to get around it. His voice is the single most iconic part of the series. And please don't try to tell me that its a fresh start to the series and that your trying to keep up with the times. Sam Fisher is 50 years old. He doesn't want to hear about these young whipper-snappers and their shenanigans. We all know how self concious he is of his age, and now you want to replace his voice?! Every time I heard this imposter speak during that demo I felt like i was being stabbed with a serrated knife. Again, I mean no insult to Eric Johnson. He's great actor. But HE'S NOT SAM FISHER. PERIOD. As for this motion capture crap. I'm sure its great stuff. But to use that as an excuse for not using Ironside... I'm sorry but thats just not acceptable. Voice Over on the other hand is acceptable. We the fans are totally OK with that. OK? Also what happened to Grim? I could swear you changed her voice actor too. I mean I guess I could live with that. But here's the deal. If Michael Ironside doesn't voice Sam Fisher, I am NOT going to play/buy this game! Without Ironside, Sam Fisher is officialy dead. And so is Splinter Cell.

Well thats all I could really think of for the moment. But in conclusion Ubisoft... You have a lot of work to do. The game is slated to be released some time next year. That gives you plenty of time to make the required adjustments. And if it isn't enough time, then delay the release if you have to. We would be totally fine with that. Some of these points may be moot since its difficult to know exactly what is in the game and what isn't in the game based on just that 6min demo alone. But please Ubisoft, the fans and I implore you. Listen to your fans. Splinter Cell is the greatest game series in history (dont argue). Take a look at games like The Witcher 2, Skyrim, and Hitman: Absolution for inspiration on how to do it right. You don't need to sacrifice stealth (and your fan base along with it) just in order to create an action packed, cinematic experience that will appeal to the masses. It is possible to create a game that has the best of both worlds. A game of Choice. The best kind of game there is.

Thank you again Zack for your time. I hope you will atleast read this. I spent about 2 hours writing this. :nonchalance:

[Kage_Sword87]

Its day four now and now I'm tired of the crying and whining.... What we should be disscussing here now is the gameplay. If Michael Ironside passed away would you be crying that he died and they went to another voice actor?? I too want him back as well its not going to feel the same at all because Eric's sounding very weak right now and if he has to take the reigns HE BETTER GET SERIOUS.. but lets at least get the gameplay right and with the aspects we need for HARDCORE STEALTH I for one can get over the voice because I want to enjoy being the Ghost that I am in this game... thats all I really care about is playing a mission straight through.. NO MISTAKES.. HARDCORE.. NO TRACE... This is what we need to be asking for. Im over the shock of this and I am liking what Max has been saying.. All we can do is hope they listen. I dont want to be like Mass Effect..

ubizack- Also we need to talk about TURNING OFF MARK & EXECUTE and LAST KNOWN POSITION.. if we are forced to use M&E can the enemy at least get some shots if an execute is poorly Timed or used. its too fail safe..

Thanks

[iusedtoworkhere]

@Warcroft - First of all, congratulations on finishing that essay, wasn't sure if I would make it to the end but I'm glad I did...


I agree with every point you made, and every point within each point, if you know what I mean. :confused:
Literally couldn't have put it any better myself.


Just to elaborate on #8, and yes Sam Fisher and Michael Ironside are one and the same, it baffles me why they chose to make the change from Ironside to Johnson in the way they did. Obviously the notion of Sam/Ironside taking the 'Lambert' role is a popular one, though I get the impression Ironside may want out (whether it's money, his own values and beliefs etc). If they must drop Ironside, then they should write Fisher out of the story at the start of the game, perhaps in a final mission or simply in a cutscene - though the latter would be poor. This would allow the loyal fans to bid farewell to a great character, it would keep continuity in the story by explaining why the lead character is so different from what we expect and literally allow Ubi free reign with the new protagonist.


The only reason I can imagine that they didn't go with such an idea is that they might be contractually obliged with *Tom Clancy Brand* to keep the name.

But as many have said - it is not Sam Fisher without the voice of Michael Ironside.



Anywho, here's a petition made by a Ubi Forum member, I've been posting it around so here it is again...

http://www.change.org/petitions/ubisoft-allow-michael-ironside-to-play-sam-fisher-in-splinter-cell-blacklist

Sign in support of keeping Ironside as the voice of Fisher

[Warcroft888]

@iusedtoworkhere - thanks for the reply. At least someone read it lol. I already signed that petition 8 times lol. Hopefully it will get Ubisoft's attention.

[darnesey]

Warcroft888 brings a LOT of valid arguments on the table. And while I'm sick and tired of everyone arguing about Ironside not being the voice of Sam anymore (forget it. they've gone too far into development to turn back now), i do agree that this game will not be the same without his voice. But I did notice that Ironside IS in fact helping out with the development of Blacklist. That puts a little bit of comfort back in my feelings for this game. Now, setting that aside, there's one thing I'm more disappointed with in this game (and I hope that other hardcore fans of this series think this way too). Bringing the classic splinter cell qualities back into the series. I can understand that a lot of the classic qualities weren't in Conviction with how Sam was feeling during the game, but that's now over with. When I saw the Blacklist demo, I was satisfied with how fluid it became. But when you said you were bringing back some of the classic elements of splinter cell back into the game I didn't see it. All I saw was the stickyshocker (shot from a crossbow?) and grabbing a guards attention by voice. That's NOT what I had in mind. I mean the tactics involved with getting through to the next area of a mission. I'm talking about
Door Codes
Lock Picking/Cracking Safes
Hacking
Emails with hints of certain kinds of security ahead (actually I could do without that. They seemed a little tedious)
Cameras (that can be shot out or disabled for a few seconds)
Trip Wires
HIDING BODIES!!! (That frustrated me about Conviction. I could NOT hide a dead body like I wanted to. The only way I could even attempt to do so was to put the guy into a human shield and drag him into another room or corner and kill him there)
Split Jump (Definitely an iconic and unique element of the SC franchise. Even with all the rare moments where the split jump could be done, it was worth it. It made me feel all giddy inside. haha)
Pipes (Those were also fun to use although not necessary)

These are the classic elements I'm referring to. If anything, I would be fine just seeing the lock picking and hacking features come back along with the ability to pick up and hide bodies! Also, the Mark and Execute feature. It's certainly very convenient to use in rooms full of guards and while it was probably necessary for the storyline of Conviction, Sam should now be in cooldown mode. Sure it should be used in this game but sometimes it just becomes too easy. I played the campaign on Conviction on Realistic difficulty over and over again with ease. But playing it without Mark and Execute became a challenge. THAT'S WHAT I WANT and I think other fans would agree with me when I say that there SHOULD be an option to play the game without Mark and Execute. It can even be disabled for the highest difficulty in the game to add to the fun of it all. I remember one of the developers was saying (during the making of Conviction) that he felt frustrated while playing the other splinter cell games and that became one of the main reasons Mark and Execute came into play. But that's what we fans loved about the other games! It was the frustration about getting around a room full of guards, which took a lot of time, that made it great.

Finally there's the coop. Coop is amazing and i love the fact that it was brought back to the Splinter Cell series. But they could use some of the classic team interactions from the original coop like:
boosting your teammate over a wall or onto a ledge.
the infamous Tamoe Nage (throwing your teammate over trip wires or into a guard)
All I saw in the Conviction coop for teammate interactions was executing, reviving and setting off an EMP. Even the interrogation scenes were done by only one guy. Have interrogations that both teammates can do like one guy holding the captive down while the other does something to him. And I would like to see a little more relationship between the coop and single player. I loved the scene in Chaos Theory where Sam interrogates a guard for the coop team. But there could definitely be more brought to the table. Like the coop team can directly interact with a mission that Sam is in. They wouldn't cross paths, but they could come close. Or have them at the very least, help out with the main campaign itself rather than them do some sort of strange random set of missions that didn't have a whole lot of relevance to the main campaign. Finally I hope that this coop campaign is a lot longer than the last one. Four missions was not enough in my mind.

If any of these elements are brought back into the Splinter Cell series for this game, it would come a LONG way into restoring Splinter Cell back to what we fell in love with in the first place.

Thank you for your consideration.
Ryan

[Warcroft888]

Now since I know very little about the game, some of these things may already be in the game, but in terms of the things that Blacklist needs:

- Split Jumps, Half-Split jumps, and SWAT turns (you know how fun those were)
- Open Level Design with multiple ways to complete or reach your objective. Reintroducing things like vents and hidden sewerage systems would be a good start
- Lockpicking and Hacking
- SC-20K
- Hiding bodies (I'm pretty sure someone said that its already in the game)
- A Sound meter and Light meter. This is essential in order to add some much needed complexity to the stealth system.
- Better AI. Convictions AI was rubbish. I want to be able to screw with their heads again like in Chaos Theory
- Bring back the OCP device. The EMP baggie in Conviction was about as discreet as a firecracker
- Non-Lethal takedowns (I'm pretty sure these have been confirmed)
-Being able to disable lights multiple ways (destroying generators, cutting cables, shooting the light bulbs, using a light swicth.)
- The ability to throw things again like rocks, empty bottles etc to distract or knockout the guards
- Guard Dogs that can pick up your scent trail and follow it to your location (c'mon you know you loved those dogs)
-Lots of night-time operations
- A stealth rating at the end of each mission like in Chaos Theory.
- Alarm Systems
- Ability to choose multiple starting locations (ie you can use the good old zodiac boat to get yourself ashore, parachute in under the cover of darkness, take a hike through the woods, or sneak aboard a truck and wait for it to drive you into the facility. Then begin the mission proper.)
- bring back the OPSAT
- Ability to crawl in the prone position
- More jungle levels like Pandora Tomorow, where instead of relying on shadows you have to use camoflage to blend in with your surroundings and crawl through grass, or hide behind/in bushes
-Bring back sticky shocker, air foil rounds, gas grenades, smoke grenades, flashbangs, wall mines, and sticky cameras.
- Ability to rappel and zipline
- Maybe have some more flashback missions of Sam's younger days; let us learn more about Fisher's background.
- Amon Tobin

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I too want lockpicking and hacking to return as well as the classic interrogation. That would make the game so much slower for stealth player which is what they want. Aggro players will back down that door, M&E everyone in the room, skip the computer and continue on. But for those who have a stealthy approach will lockpick the door, sneak in when the guards aren't looking. Hack the computer and read that up ahead there will be a convoy of troops, and then they will grab one of the enemies and find out how to bypass it. Meanwhile the reward for aggro players upon encountering the convoy of troops is they will brutally kill them, one by one and then pick them off by killing in motion. Both will net you points to use or whatever the currency is but you get what I mean.

Another thing: NO FAN OF STEALTH WILL WANT SILENT BOOTS. That's so cheap. If it makes me perfectly silent...uhhh no. Why even have it? Thats more for panthers who dont mind simplified stealth in order to take everyone out. But heres the thing: the ghosts that beland is talking about wont use it. They want challenge. So they need to be able to purchase nightvision and things like that.

[michaelanjello]

Now since I know very little about the game, some of these things may already be in the game, but in terms of the things that Blacklist needs:

- Split Jumps, Half-Split jumps, and SWAT turns (you know how fun those were)
- Open Level Design with multiple ways to complete or reach your objective. Reintroducing things like vents and hidden sewerage systems would be a good start
- Lockpicking and Hacking
- SC-20K
- Hiding bodies (I'm pretty sure someone said that its already in the game)
- A Sound meter and Light meter. This is essential in order to add some much needed complexity to the stealth system.
- Better AI. Convictions AI was rubbish. I want to be able to screw with their heads again like in Chaos Theory
- Bring back the OCP device. The EMP baggie in Conviction was about as discreet as a firecracker
- Non-Lethal takedowns (I'm pretty sure these have been confirmed)
-Being able to disable lights multiple ways (destroying generators, cutting cables, shooting the light bulbs, using a light swicth.)
- The ability to throw things again like rocks, empty bottles etc to distract or knockout the guards
- Guard Dogs that can pick up your scent trail and follow it to your location (c'mon you know you loved those dogs)
-Lots of night-time operations
- A stealth rating at the end of each mission like in Chaos Theory.
- Alarm Systems
- Ability to choose multiple starting locations (ie you can use the good old zodiac boat to get yourself ashore, parachute in under the cover of darkness, take a hike through the woods, or sneak aboard a truck and wait for it to drive you into the facility. Then begin the mission proper.)
- bring back the OPSAT
- Ability to crawl in the prone position
- More jungle levels like Pandora Tomorow, where instead of relying on shadows you have to use camoflage to blend in with your surroundings and crawl through grass, or hide behind/in bushes
-Bring back sticky shocker, air foil rounds, gas grenades, smoke grenades, flashbangs, wall mines, and sticky cameras.
- Ability to rappel and zipline
- Maybe have some more flashback missions of Sam's younger days; let us learn more about Fisher's background.
- Amon Tobin


What about vents?
Nvm you got that. But i think the insertion thing would be difficult to do. Hopefullt we can change the camoflage of the tac suit
things are are for sure back because of what beland personally said

Tac suit.
nonlethal takedowns
zipline
rappel
opsat
knife
carrying bodies
cutting materials(might include wiring as well)
Sticky shocker
sticky cam( the bug thing)
Underbarrel attachement.
Ubductions.

I want to see vents, but i want crawling, not crouching like in SCC. I want prone crawling. Hiding under desks and in closets as well.

And hopefully we can hitch rides under vehicles as well like we saw in the trailer

[ImaDoctorJim]

I hereby nominate Warcroft888 as embasador to Ubisoft on the Splinter Cell fan base's behalf. All those in favor, say "Aye".

[michaelanjello]

I too want lockpicking and hacking to return as well as the classic interrogation. That would make the game so much slower for stealth player which is what they want. Aggro players will back down that door, M&E everyone in the room, skip the computer and continue on. But for those who have a stealthy approach will lockpick the door, sneak in when the guards aren't looking. Hack the computer and read that up ahead there will be a convoy of troops, and then they will grab one of the enemies and find out how to bypass it. Meanwhile the reward for aggro players upon encountering the convoy of troops is they will brutally kill them, one by one and then pick them off by killing in motion. Both will net you points to use or whatever the currency is but you get what I mean.

Another thing: NO FAN OF STEALTH WILL WANT SILENT BOOTS. That's so cheap. If it makes me perfectly silent...uhhh no. Why even have it? Thats more for panthers who dont mind simplified stealth in order to take everyone out. But heres the thing: the ghosts that beland is talking about wont use it. They want challenge. So they need to be able to purchase nightvision and things like that.

I knowbwhat you mean. I agree with you. But the game is all about options, and the more they bring back and offer the better. Even the boots will be a good addition to panther players. He just mentined that because that was a simple and easy idea that could be used as an example

[Bill-E-Bob]

I hereby nominate Warcroft888 as embasador to Ubisoft on the Splinter Cell fan base's behalf. All those in favor, say "Aye".

AYE!
I read the whole post, and agree 100%.

I urge all fans to sign this, if they haven't already.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ubisoft-allow-michael-ironside-to-play-sam-fisher-in-splinter-cell-blacklist

[Andre202]

- Split Jumps, Half-Split jumps, and SWAT turns (you know how fun those were)
SWAT Turn was already possible in Conviction, so I think it's possible in Blacklist too. The other both things are not confirmed.


- Open Level Design with multiple ways to complete or reach your objective. Reintroducing things like vents and hidden sewerage systems would be a good start
That's hopefully the case. The devs strenghened that they developed the game for Ghost players, Panther players and Action players in mind.


- Lockpicking and Hacking
Hopefully there, have a bad feeling about that though.


- SC-20K
Since it's customizable, I think this will be the case.


- Hiding bodies (I'm pretty sure someone said that its already in the game)
Confirmed.


- A Sound meter and Light meter. This is essential in order to add some much needed complexity to the stealth system.
Seems like they have a complete system here. Hopefully it's dynamic and not binary like in DA and Conviction.


- Better AI. Convictions AI was rubbish. I want to be able to screw with their heads again like in Chaos Theory
The AI isn't that bad, but yeah, you couldn't play with them as much. That's right. I am confident this will be the case.


- Bring back the OCP device. The EMP baggie in Conviction was about as discreet as a firecracker
I don't think it will come back. But we have seen only a daylight mission. So Sam may have another version of the FiveSeven equipped.


- Non-Lethal takedowns (I'm pretty sure these have been confirmed)
Confirmed and it's a good thing you can do it in every possible stance.


-Being able to disable lights multiple ways (destroying generators, cutting cables, shooting the light bulbs, using a light swicth.)
Completely agree. Variation and Creativity in such things is key.


- The ability to throw things again like rocks, empty bottles etc to distract or knockout the guards
They have the code to use it. Not sure if it's in their engine though.


- Guard Dogs that can pick up your scent trail and follow it to your location (c'mon you know you loved those dogs)
Nice idea. Maybe they will have something different though.


-Lots of night-time operations
Agreed. After all you should be infiltrating highly secured areas for intel gathering.


- A stealth rating at the end of each mission like in Chaos Theory.
Some people don't like them. I suggested to have a rating on the highest diffculty.


- Alarm Systems
An innovative one!


- Ability to choose multiple starting locations (ie you can use the good old zodiac boat to get yourself ashore, parachute in under the cover of darkness, take a hike through the woods, or sneak aboard a truck and wait for it to drive you into the facility. Then begin the mission proper.)
As nice as this idea is, I don't think this will happen.


- bring back the OPSAT
Confirmed to be back.


- Ability to crawl in the prone position
Need to ask the devs...


- More jungle levels like Pandora Tomorow, where instead of relying on shadows you have to use camoflage to blend in with your surroundings and crawl through grass, or hide behind/in bushes
There is the possibility to be in all kind of locations. Snow level, Jungle and so on.


-Bring back sticky shocker, air foil rounds, gas grenades, smoke grenades, flashbangs, wall mines, and sticky cameras.
Sticky Shocker is bag. Sticky camera is coming in a form of a small drone and I think most of the others are coming back.


- Ability to rappel and zipline
It's confirmed, it's possible.


- Maybe have some more flashback missions of Sam's younger days; let us learn more about Fisher's background.
I am not sure about that. The people didn't recieved the Irak mission very well and the devs said themselfs they won't do it again.


- Amon Tobin
I have a feeling it's Michael Nielsen and Kaveh Cohen again. Michael McCann is also a very good composer. There is no info of who is responsible for the soundtracks. The devs won't say anything either when asking them. But I liked what I heard in the demo.

[JaRuTo]

After Chaos Theory, things went a little ...down hill. Don't get me wrong, Double Agent was a good game. It had some awesome idea's it just didn't always deliver those ideas in the smoothest manner.
Have you ever played in Double Agent on old gen console like xbox/ps2/wii? It was different DA in almost everything, well... only story was the same. If not, I recommend you catch up.



Never in my life have I played a third person game with such good controls. And my God, that cover system!!! That thing was a work of art! Some people didn't like how quickly Sam was crawling along walls and scaling drainpipes. Personally I loved it.
When I tried doing a classic roll maneuvered in front between the narrow walls, you could not do that because the system responsible for the collision detection (which react to how close we are to the wall) perform the inverse function to the wall, sticking instead to perform the roll. Assign multiple actions to one key resulted in such situations in which the hanging had to wait until the form above you the guard will go in another direction otherwise you could not go a step lower. Sure, you could move to the side, but it took precious seconds and lead to frustration. There are many more such situations, but I think you got that control the Conviction was not the highest caliber.


2. There were no shadows. No light meter. Now I understand that you don't necassarily need shadows in order to sneak past someone. You made that abundantly clear in Double Agent. But shadows, darkness and night time operations are as iconic to the Splinter Cell series as the trident night vision goggles. And now for a lovely segway into my next point...
The G4TV Maxime Belland has confirmed that the missions will take place at night time once a day at different times. For me this is the best solution because it will require a lot of concentration of sneaky on the day light.


Prior to E3, I was excited as hell for the reveal of the next Splinter Cell game. But when I saw the trailer, and I'm going to be honest... I felt absolutely crushed. Like someone had ripped my heart out through my anal sphincter and smashed it with Thor's Hammer. Every morsel of information I had uncovered regarding the game prior to its E3 presentation suggested that the game would be returning to its roots. Now when someone says "a return to it's roots" you would logically assume that they would mean the original Splinter Cell, or maybe even Chaos Theory (since it is undeniably the pinnacle of stealth gaming). What I saw in that CGI trailer and that 6min demo was anything but a "return to its roots". Now please understand that I'm an open minded person (or atleast I like to think that I am). I understand that ofcourse 6 minutes is not enough to get a good representation of a game in its entirety. But it certainly wasn't a good start. Yes, I know... its common practice in marketing to showcase the most exciting and action filled parts of a game in order to lure in the audience. But here's the thing. It's also common marketing practice to show parts of your game that will appeal to the target audience. So you can understand my concern for me and the rest of the Splinter Cell fans. Things really arent looking good for poor Sam at the moment. It's fair to say that I'm not the only one who is geniunely stressed out about this game (and poor Sam). From the sounds of things, you guys at Ubisoft are having a hard time too. :(.

So here's the problems/concerns that I personally (and no doubt millions of fans out there) have with Blacklist. Now obviously we don't really know all that much about the game, so some of these concerns may be unfounded.

1. Blacklist seems to have a strong focus on action, killing and bloodshed. While I appreciate the return of my much beloved knife, I never expected it to be used quite that way. Here's the fundemental problem: Splinter Cell is a stealth game. What you guys showed us in that trailer had nothing in it that I would remotely classify as stealth. If your not going to maintain the elements of stealth then theres no point in calling it Splinter Cell and there's no point in having Sam Fisher in the game either. You'd be better off just making a whole new IP in that case. You can rely on Mark & Execute to sell the game, but please don't make us rely on it to play the game. Make it an option. Another tool in Sam's vast array of tactics, equipment, and gadgets. That is how you create choice. That is how you empower the gamer. If I want to play the game without ever using Mark & Execute, instead relying on my own skills and stealth to bypass or incapacitate enemies in a non-lethal manner - allow me to do that!!! Don't hold my hand and force me to do things your way or I'll cry RAPE!!!

3. No night vision. Yes I'm a moron. Ofcourse there wasn't any night vision. It's daytime Einstein! But still the only vision mode I saw was that horrible thing called Sonar Vision. I couldn't help but picture Sam saying "I'm Batman!". Now again I stress that I dont really know much about the game and its quite possible that night vision and thermal vision (and maybe EMF vision too? Pretty please?) will be making a return to the game. Now I understand that for the purposes of 'simplification' you guys might be tempted to simply integrate night vision into sonar vision and call it candy. Unfortunetly thats not doing anyone any favors. Developers need to understand that we as gamers respect and enjoy complexity and options. There is a difference between simplification and merely dumbing down to appeal to the masses. But you need to give the masses a chance. You might be pleasantly surprised to find that the masses also enjoy complexity.

4. No SPLITJUMP!!! Seriously do I need to remind you guys of symbolism and icons?

5. Where's the SC-20K (aka the F2000)??? Again an essential icon to the series

6. Perhaps one of the most important of all. LEVEL DESIGN. . Splinter Cell does not = Call of Duty. One of the best things about Chaos Theory was open level design. There were multiple paths to completing objectives. It all boils down to the element of CHOICE. Without choice there is very little replay value. And without replay value there is little value for money. Do see how all of my points in some manner or form will have an impact on your sales? This isn't just about pleasing the fans - its about making the best, most successful game you guys can. Success is directly dependent on happy customers. And Success = PROFIT. So listen carefully. By turning Splinter Cell into another generic third person shooter, you risk all of your fans. Mistake me if I'm wrong, but your fans make up a pretty significant portion of your total customers. If you lose your fans, you will not only lose your sales, but you'll destroy the series.

7. Sam Fisher's personality. Before I get into Sam's unfortunate condition regarding his voice box, I want to first talk about Sam's personality and how its represented in that demo. Hint: It wasn't good. Again things arent looking good for poor Sam. The overall feeling that I got from his rampage was that of a psychotic killler with bloodlust. Now that kind of personality might be cool and bad *** in Call of Duty, but its simply not acceptable for the man I've come to know and love over the last ten years. (If I wasn't staight... I'd marry him). Need I remind you that Sam hates killing. And he's no longer on a personal vendetta of revenge. He was SUPPOSED to calm down. During that demo I kept telling him to chill the f*ck out. But he wouldn't listen. Suddenly the hero who I've come to love and respect has become nothing but a sadistic, amoral murderer. NOT COOL Ubisoft. Not cool at all.

8. His voice. Oh dear God why? This is the single most devastating part of the game. Now, first off can I just say this: Eric Johnson is a great, fantastic voice actor. He's bloody good at what he does. Nobody is questioning this. But it doesn't change the fact that Michael Ironside IS Sam Fisher. Ironside has a feel and understanding for the character that Eric Johnson never will. He is the embodiment of Fisher. Every tone in his voice reverberates though Fisher's emotions. He is the only voice actor capable of bringing Fisher to life. There's just no way to get around it. His voice is the single most iconic part of the series. And please don't try to tell me that its a fresh start to the series and that your trying to keep up with the times. Sam Fisher is 50 years old. He doesn't want to hear about these young whipper-snappers and their shenanigans. We all know how self concious he is of his age, and now you want to replace his voice?! Every time I heard this imposter speak during that demo I felt like i was being stabbed with a serrated knife. Again, I mean no insult to Eric Johnson. He's great actor. But HE'S NOT SAM FISHER. PERIOD. As for this motion capture crap. I'm sure its great stuff. But to use that as an excuse for not using Ironside... I'm sorry but thats just not acceptable. Voice Over on the other hand is acceptable. We the fans are totally OK with that. OK? Also what happened to Grim? I could swear you changed her voice actor too. I mean I guess I could live with that. But here's the deal. If Michael Ironside doesn't voice Sam Fisher, I am NOT going to play/buy this game! Without Ironside, Sam Fisher is officialy dead. And so is Splinter Cell.

Well thats all I could really think of for the moment. But in conclusion Ubisoft... You have a lot of work to do. The game is slated to be released some time next year. That gives you plenty of time to make the required adjustments. And if it isn't enough time, then delay the release if you have to. We would be totally fine with that. Some of these points may be moot since its difficult to know exactly what is in the game and what isn't in the game based on just that 6min demo alone. But please Ubisoft, the fans and I implore you. Listen to your fans. Splinter Cell is the greatest game series in history (dont argue). Take a look at games like The Witcher 2, Skyrim, and Hitman: Absolution for inspiration on how to do it right. You don't need to sacrifice stealth (and your fan base along with it) just in order to create an action packed, cinematic experience that will appeal to the masses. It is possible to create a game that has the best of both worlds. A game of Choice. The best kind of game there is.

Thank you again Zack for your time. I hope you will atleast read this. I spent about 2 hours writing this. :nonchalance:
I couldn't have said it better myself. I still have concerns because the little I've seen and the only thing it shows us the style of a panther in the demo presented at E3 and partly reassured that you will be able to play like they used the old style, like a ghost to avoid contact with the enemy. But not 100 percent sure if this will happen has in fact.

[sameer_monier]

^^ Regarding the Night Mission, I saw a tweet from Beland to someone confirming we will see Night Missions.

[Andre202]

^^ Regarding the Night Mission, I saw a tweet from Beland to someone confirming we will see Night Missions.

I have the feeling that there will be ENVG. It just depends on the mission if you get them. Maybe I am wrong here though.

[ImaDoctorJim]

Bring back the OCP device. The EMP baggie in Conviction was about as discreet as a firecracker

Dude, yes. The OCP was the bee's knees. It was more handy than even the Sticky Camera if you knew how to use it. Plus, it didn't leave any evidence like shooting out lights did.

Best. Gadget. Ever.

[JaRuTo]

Dude, yes. The OCP was the bee's knees. It was more handy than even the Sticky Camera if you knew how to use it. Plus, it didn't leave any evidence like shooting out lights did.

Best. Gadget. Ever.
Yeah, but also the most unrealistic gadget in Splinter Cell series : P

[Andre202]

Dude, yes. The OCP was the bee's knees. It was more handy than even the Sticky Camera if you knew how to use it. Plus, it didn't leave any evidence like shooting out lights did.

Best. Gadget. Ever.

It made some things to easy though. People suggested that the OCP should get batteries so you won't be able to use it unlimited.

[JaRuTo]

or very long charge to re-use OCP once again.

[Andre202]

or very long charge to re-use OCP once again.
It would support camping. The SCCT dev team talked about this issue.

[JaRuTo]

Camping in single player or coop? What do you mean exactly?

[ImaDoctorJim]

Yeah, but also the most unrealistic gadget in Splinter Cell series : P

Using concentrated electromagnetism to knock out a light would be considered "future-tech", yes, but the idea is not as far-fetched as you think. It would probably be more likely that the light would either A: Come back on as soon as the EM field was removed (like in Conviction coop) or B: The light would be permanently disabled after being hit by it. (Could be a good, permanent alternative to shooting out lights. You could add some sort of drawback like long charge times, having to hold down the OCP button to "spin up" the device, etc)


or very long charge to re-use OCP once again.

I would be fine with that. I try not to rely solely on the OCP in Chaos Theory, so increasing the "cool down" time could be an interesting way to ballance it.

[Andre202]

Camping in single player or coop? What do you mean exactly?

The player would just wait till the battery is full again. The devs don't want the people to encourage waiting, but moving.

[ImaDoctorJim]

Another simple (and really the most realistic) solution would be to give the player a finite number of OCP charges. Then, when your batteries are dead, you'll have to change tactics. I mean, I have no problem with the OCP as it was in Chaos Theory, but if you think about it... how DOES it recharge itself?

[marcelobourne]

Delay the release please and fix the game, i think ubi toronto is to little to understand splinter cell series... Put ironside back now! That is no negotiable

[sameer_monier]

I have the feeling that there will be ENVG. It just depends on the mission if you get them. Maybe I am wrong here though.

I believe that we may see it too, I mean in GRFS we got Magnetic Vision and ENVG, and given the demo sequence it was best to use SVG, while in Night Mission a ENVG would be best.

Between me and you, it feels like we are shooting for the stars :D, I mean ALOT of things we are taking for granted that it will be there more or less, but it seems the devs are really putting alot of thought into everything.

[The_5_Freedoms]

Yeah, but also the most unrealistic gadget in Splinter Cell series : P
I thought Conviction topped that with Sonar Goggles?

There's also the portable EMP generator and EMP grenades.

[ImaDoctorJim]

I thought Conviction topped that with Sonar Goggles?

Amen.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

No I think the most unrealistic, not considering the Portable EMP thingy from SCC (since everything inSCC is unrealistic) is the Ultrasonic Emitter...I don't get how they could project a sound from point A and make it sound like its from point B. I mean ventriloquists can do that but idk. It seems unrealistic...I know they can weaponize sound but thats altogether different. Anyone have info on anything like the ultrasonic emitter? It needs to be in use or experimented with. If its like the sonar goggles....then its just as unrealistic.

[S.V.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&amp;feature=endscreen&amp;v=lOvX8czduL4&nbsp; Zack, watch this ;D

[Si1entDark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&amp;feature=endscreen&amp;v=lOvX8czduL4&nbsp; Zack, watch this ;D

I laughed at that way more than I should have :L :L :L

[DeafAtheist]

Ok maybe it's my deafness but gawd**** it seems like a lot of people are getting worked up over a gawd**** voice. "Gameplay changes I can live with but WHAT?! No Michael Ironside?! Blasphemy!!" People forget (or just don't realize) that Michael Ironside had originally declined to even voice Conviction. It took some prodding by Maxime Beland to get him to come back on board the project. People are also getting hung up on Sam's age. Well let's see, Sean Connery is what 81 now? Would you rather have him come back and play James Bond in Skyfall than Daniel Craig? After all he IS the original James Bond. Ubisoft obviously sees Sam Fisher as a timeless icon like James Bond. Maxime Beland in an interview about Conviction back when it came out even said himself that he would love to see Sam still out there kicking *** when his own kids are old enough to play Splinter Cell. So really who gives a **** if Ubisoft decided to go with a younger guy to play the role? It's the only way a character can live on longer than the actor that originated the role. There have been 6 actors who have played James Bond in the official EON/MGM productions over the course of over 40 years and James Bond is the longest running, most successful long-running film franchise in movie history. I'd bet most of you have never even seen Connery's Bond films. Most of you probably don't see past Pierce Brosnan or Daniel Craig. A really strong character is one that is more than any one actor that plays their part. Such is the nature of art.

So go right ahead a cry in a corner about Michael Ironside's departure then grow a pair and decide you'd rather play a kick as game or sit on a porch and reminiscence about the good old days. Here's a news flash for you. Splinter Cell is Ubisoft's property. It is THEIR game and therefore THEIR decision about it's future. They're doing a really good job trying to appeal to as much of their audience as possible which is a really good thing. I myself missed a lot of the stealth elements that got dropped in Conviction, but I loved Conviction for one thing... It got a buddy of mine interested in the series. I originally told him he should try Double Agent (Xbox 360) and saying he hated that game is an understatement. He hated it so much it took me a YEAR to convince him to try Conviction and told him that it was a very different game. He still isn't a huge fan of the franchise, but he told me that if Blacklist has coop like Conviction did he'll get the game.So for me that's a positive thing that a game can evolve enough to appeal to a broader audience while still keeping in touch with it's original roots and from what I've seen of Blacklist they are really trying to do that while driving the technology forward.

Performance capture makes more sense to me than editing in someone's voice. It's much more realistic to hear Sam being short of breath after bursting through a door and dispatching a group of enemies than one who sounds like he just finished a Sunday drive through the neighborhood looking at Christmas lights. Eric Johnson's voice being used along with his physical performance gives that realistic voicing you'd get from a guy who just moved through an area and killed a bunch of enemies.Besides you guys are judging him based on what? 3 lines in a video demo?

The one thing I am most ashamed of in being a gamer is how loudly and frequently gamers whine. They whine when things change too much. They whine when things don't change enough. They whine about having to (gasp!) PAY for DLC. I've never encountered such a larger group of self-entitled whiners in any medium than video games. And the sad irony is that the industry wants to be accepted mainstream as the artistic medium it is rather than "just something for children to play". Kinda hard to be taken seriously when all we do is whine, huh?

[Si1entDark]

^

The thing about James Bond is that a new actor plays each iteration of a new shift in chronology, whereas in Black List Ubisoft are using a new voice actor to replace Ironside who has been doing the job for 10 years in a series that is grounded around strict continuity (or was till now), hence the "Tom Clancy" name before the game. James Bond is more like a code name compared to how Sam is seen within the fiction of Splinter Cell. Sam is 56 with a known bio, and Ubi are making him look 20 years younger, faster and now has a new voice actor. Fans have every right to be unsettled by latest revelations.

Eric Johnson is without doubt a fine actor, but give him a chance to shine in his own light.. not under the legacy that Michael Ironside left behind. It would of been for the best if they established him as a new protagonist going forward.

[NDCRP]

@iusedtoworkhere - thanks for the reply. At least someone read it lol. I already signed that petition 8 times lol. Hopefully it will get Ubisoft's attention.
I did read it too.
I really liked what you wrote in #7.
To be completely sincere,I liked every point.

[sam3912]

I would rather see a new splinter cell as the lead role no one can replace michael ironside as Sam fisher NO ONE! It's very sad to hear what the hardcore fans have to say that splinter cell is pretty much dead and I also have to agree its no longer the same and it will never be the same especially when a development team doesn't understand the fans and splinter cell itself. You can say oh you guys are jumping to conclusion to early , they also said that when conviction was being shown and when the game was released the fans were right all along. My favorite franchise has been destroyed, now i know how max beland feels when he played the original games ,that games shouldn't be this way. But in all honesty removing Micheal ironside as the voice of Sam Fisher is a huge huge mistake in many of the splinter cell fans eyes, once you do that you know this franchise is pretty much dead. Your reason not to have ironside in the game is unbelievably lazy.

[darnesey]

Ok maybe it's my deafness but gawd**** it seems like a lot of people are getting worked up over a gawd**** voice. "Gameplay changes I can live with but WHAT?! No Michael Ironside?! Blasphemy!!" People forget (or just don't realize) that Michael Ironside had originally declined to even voice Conviction. It took some prodding by Maxime Beland to get him to come back on board the project. People are also getting hung up on Sam's age. Well let's see, Sean Connery is what 81 now? Would you rather have him come back and play James Bond in Skyfall than Daniel Craig? After all he IS the original James Bond. Ubisoft obviously sees Sam Fisher as a timeless icon like James Bond. Maxime Beland in an interview about Conviction back when it came out even said himself that he would love to see Sam still out there kicking *** when his own kids are old enough to play Splinter Cell. So really who gives a **** if Ubisoft decided to go with a younger guy to play the role? It's the only way a character can live on longer than the actor that originated the role. There have been 6 actors who have played James Bond in the official EON/MGM productions over the course of over 40 years and James Bond is the longest running, most successful long-running film franchise in movie history. I'd bet most of you have never even seen Connery's Bond films. Most of you probably don't see past Pierce Brosnan or Daniel Craig. A really strong character is one that is more than any one actor that plays their part. Such is the nature of art.

So go right ahead a cry in a corner about Michael Ironside's departure then grow a pair and decide you'd rather play a kick as game or sit on a porch and reminiscence about the good old days. Here's a news flash for you. Splinter Cell is Ubisoft's property. It is THEIR game and therefore THEIR decision about it's future. They're doing a really good job trying to appeal to as much of their audience as possible which is a really good thing. I myself missed a lot of the stealth elements that got dropped in Conviction, but I loved Conviction for one thing... It got a buddy of mine interested in the series. I originally told him he should try Double Agent (Xbox 360) and saying he hated that game is an understatement. He hated it so much it took me a YEAR to convince him to try Conviction and told him that it was a very different game. He still isn't a huge fan of the franchise, but he told me that if Blacklist has coop like Conviction did he'll get the game.So for me that's a positive thing that a game can evolve enough to appeal to a broader audience while still keeping in touch with it's original roots and from what I've seen of Blacklist they are really trying to do that while driving the technology forward.

Performance capture makes more sense to me than editing in someone's voice. It's much more realistic to hear Sam being short of breath after bursting through a door and dispatching a group of enemies than one who sounds like he just finished a Sunday drive through the neighborhood looking at Christmas lights. Eric Johnson's voice being used along with his physical performance gives that realistic voicing you'd get from a guy who just moved through an area and killed a bunch of enemies.Besides you guys are judging him based on what? 3 lines in a video demo?

The one thing I am most ashamed of in being a gamer is how loudly and frequently gamers whine. They whine when things change too much. They whine when things don't change enough. They whine about having to (gasp!) PAY for DLC. I've never encountered such a larger group of self-entitled whiners in any medium than video games. And the sad irony is that the industry wants to be accepted mainstream as the artistic medium it is rather than "just something for children to play". Kinda hard to be taken seriously when all we do is whine, huh?

THANK YOU!!!!! You are absolutely right! I posted earlier about this. The general consensus is that no matter what ubisoft does for this game, consumers are going to whine and complain about something they don't like. I personally am willing to give Eric Johnson a chance. I just hope the other fans will pull their heads out of their ***** and do the same. And filling out a petition is not going to help either. They've already casted Eric Johnson. Michael Ironside is helping out with the development of Sam's character. By the time the demo was shown on E3, they've probably already recorded most of the scenes, if not all, using Johnson's voice. They're not going to simply back up and start over. It will take too long to redo the scenes, cut Ironside's voice into every scene, and spend countless weeks editing the movements of the mouth to match that of his voice AND work with the rest of the face that was captured using MOCAP. Sorry. But asking to change the voice back is A LOT more difficult to do this late in the development.

[Bill-E-Bob]

sean connery is what 81 now? Would you rather have him come back and play james bond in skyfall than daniel craig? After all he is the original james bond.

hell yeah!

[Bill-E-Bob]

I personally am willing to give Eric Johnson a chance.

It's not that we don't want to give Eric the chance. He looks like a good actor and a decent guy. We just would rather he have a proper chance to make a character his own. Not try to fill the shoes of Michael Ironside. He'll always be the 'inferior Fisher'. But if he had his own character, hell, he could be just as popular as Sam! And it will be on his own merits.
I'd be so happy if Sam was just able to retire. Conviction finished with that appearing to be the case. Bring on fresh blood! New agents! New technology!
Let the legacy of Michael Ironside and Sam Fisher be remembered for the awesomeness it was.

[DeafAtheist]

^

The thing about James Bond is that a new actor plays each iteration of a new shift in chronology, whereas in Black List Ubisoft are using a new voice actor to replace Ironside who has been doing the job for 10 years in a series that is grounded around strict continuity (or was till now), hence the "Tom Clancy" name before the game. James Bond is more like a code name compared to how Sam is seen within the fiction of Splinter Cell. Sam is 56 with a known bio, and Ubi are making him look 20 years younger, faster and now has a new voice actor. Fans have every right to be unsettled by latest revelations.

Eric Johnson is without doubt a fine actor, but give him a chance to shine in his own light.. not under the legacy that Michael Ironside left behind. It would of been for the best if they established him as a new protagonist going forward.

Actually that's not accurate about James Bond. George Lazenby's Bond got married at the end of On Her Majesty's Secret Service and as the newlywed's drove away from their wedding Tracy Bond was tragically shot and killed by a bullet meant for James. Later in a future Bond film (I forget which) we see Roger Moore's Bond standing in solemn silence in front of Tracy Bond's grave. So no, James Bond is NOT a code name. He is simply a timeless icon one that was originally intended to follow Ian Flemming's original works but given the popularity of the franchise it has spun out into many films that were NOT based on any Flemming work and some that were only loosely based on it. The character was forced to evolve with the times. Sean Connery wanted to move on to other projects and had to be BEGGED by Cubby Broccoli to come back and reprise his role for Diamonds Are Forever after Lazenby's horrible acting in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

So while Ubisoft's original direction might have been more chronological with the character they've obviously changed their formula like Bond in order to adapt him to the future of the Splinter Cell Brand. Sam Fisher is a fictional character. He's not a voice. He's not Michael Ironside. And this means getting younger actors to play the part.

Daniel Craig was NOT well-received by fans of the James Bond franchise when it was announced prior to the release of Casino Royale because they just didn't see him as right for the part. I myself was skeptical and I'm a huge fan of the Bond franchise. I own and have watched EVERY single Bond film several times and after seeing Casino Royale Daniel Craig surprised me as a man capable of filling in Bond's very big shoes. Quite honestly Daniel Craig sucks in every other film I've seen him in but he is an absolutely phenomenal Bond, probably even as good if not better than Connery in my opinion. Dalton was also a very good Bond. Craig and Dalton are closer to the kind of Bond Flemming perceived in his novels. Lazenby was absolutely horrible but ironically On Her Majesty's Secret Service was one of the best Bond films in the franchise. I really disliked him as Bond and was happy he never continued the role. So there are bound to be good actors that fill a role of any character and there are bound to be bad ones. But Michael Ironside is NOT Sam Fisher. He is simply the 1st actor to be his voice. I think it's pre-mature to judge Eric Johnson on his new role before truly seeing the final product. He might just surprise us the way Daniel Craig surprised James Bond fans. Give the man a chance.

[Bill-E-Bob]

What works for Bond, doesn't neccessarily work for everything else. These are two totally different mediums.

[DeafAtheist]

What works for Bond, doesn't neccessarily work for everything else. These are two totally different mediums.

Maybe not but we can't judge something without trying it. Only reason why it isn't working for fans now is because fans are just so dead-set on wanting Ironside to reprise his voice role. They are unwilling to even give Eric Johnson a chance and judging him on his voice over 3 lines in a friggin' demo. Someone up above even said they didn't ever realize that it wasn't Ironside's voice the 1st time they watched the demo and later found out that it wasn't his voice and after finding out it bugged him. I really think you all are putting way too much value in a voice, Splinter Cell as a game is so much deeper than an actor's voice.

If anything changing a voice in a game should be less important to fans than changing an entire actor in a film. In a film you're not just changing a character's voice you're changing their whole persona, their face, body, voice, mannerisms... etc. But Sam Fisher can and apparently is still modeled after the Sam Fisher of Conviction in his look and face. Eric Johnson is only bringing his voice and motion capture performance to the table. Sam is still Sam... just a different voice,

I read an interview about Conviction with Maxime Beland where he was explaining why Sam isn't in his traditional wetsuit in Conviction and iinstead is wearing regular clothing (which amusingly he seems to never change even though game takes place over several days or weeks in multiple locations) I'm surprised they didn't have him sporting that green sweatshirt in the Iraq flashback mission because he wears it in everything else). Maxime explained that the wetsuit isn't Sam. It's just a tool he used for the job and for Conviction Sam needs to blend in a different environment which calls for a different outfit. While Sam's voice is different from his outfit the same rings true... Sam is not a voice. He's just a fictional character. Most of the voicing takes place in cutscenes anyway. So while you're running around shooting bad guys or sneaking up behind them to knock them out really why should anyone give a **** what his voice sounds like? Deciding to boycott an entire game over a gawd**** voice is lame in my opinion, The game is so much deeper than one character's voice... even the main character.

Also changing actors in the Bond franchise NEVER goes over well with the fans... why? Because the fans grow accustomed to the current Bond. The fans really didn't like the idea of Craig in the role but once Craig's contract with EON is up and if he decides not to renew it or EON decides it's time for a change the fans will be disappointed with Craig's departure... the same fans who were vocally against him taking over the role in the 1st place.

Point is simply this. Give the man a chance with an open mind before just condemning him because he's not Michael Ironside.

[FreeRIdah]

I got to say that I feel a little better, since I got the bad news that Michael Ironside will not voicing Sam Fisher.
I've seen the Gamespot and IGN's gameplay interviews and I'm more open to this now, because I want to see the old style of Splinter Cell from the previous games before Conviction...
I feel better because some things are back and some are gone.
Like the black&white shadow/light system is gone and the old tactical suit is back with many customizable functions and styles like it's been said.
The ability to choose by knocking out a person and not killing that person, the ability of being stealthy or not.
Some previous abilities like cutting through fabrics and I hope the ability of cutting cables, different sources of power, cutting through a fence/glass and many others will come back...
I still feel bad that this is still Sam Fisher with another voice, a 54/55 years old guy with a young voice and he's got the ability of climbing and running around with a speed like the main character from Assassin's Creed series is able.
I repeat my self and like many others said that Splinter Cell means a stealthy Sam Fisher, Sam Fisher is Michael Ironside.
It doesn't feel right, for an old timer like me, being and growing with the Splinter Cell franchise, that this is happening with such a great franchise that still got potential of being different and not being like many other short desert/jungle/city warfare games that we see nowadays...
Still feel bad about the mark and execute feature. It's been updated with the motion thing.
It's still there and with that feature in Conviction I passed the game on real difficulty less than 5 hours. With that motion thing added won't make the game last longer for me. I will still be able to kill/execute everybody from the field with it. Even though the option to choose it or not is there.

[Warcroft888]

I understand what you guys are trying to say about Sam voice. Your saying that a voice doesn't make a character. And thats true. It doesn't. A character is defined by his actions and choices, his emotions and responses to a situation. But here's the thing. Michael Ironside has an understanding of Sam Fisher that Eric Johnson simply never will. He has a way of responding to the situations (the script) which is totally unique to him. Its not a matter of whether or not he's a good actor. Michael Ironside has been building Sam Fisher since the first game was released back in 2002. He's not just a voice. Michael Ironside conveys Fisher's emotions and personalityin a way that only Ironside ever could. Thats what makes every voice actor unique. They all have different ways of conveying emotion and personality. Thats their job. The thing is Eric Johnson's 'way' of conveying emotion is just too different from Ironside's. It just doesn't fit the character thats been established over the past 10 years. Michael Ironside essentialy has the personality of Sam Fisher. From what I've seen from that 6min demo and that CGI trailer, Eric Johnson just doesn't have the right kind of personality for the job; he's too young. He lacks that worn and torn feeling. Every inflection of Ironsides voice bleeds through Sam's character and morality. You can literally feel Sam's old age and weariness, but also his strength of character when Ironside's behind the mic. It just isn't there when Eric Johnson is doing the job.

Eric Johnson would have been perfect for Desmond Miles. Hell when I saw Fisher scaling that cliff face in the demo, I couldn't help but think that they should have saved these gameplay elements for a modern day Assassin's Creed, with Desmond Miles as the main playable character.

Also a lot of people here have commented on the so called 'self-entitiled whiners' who don't do anything but complain. Yeah, we are whining. Because we want to help the developers make the best **** game they can. People will always complain. You can't please everyone, it's true. But you can minimise the amount of whining by making a **** good game.

And your **** right we're self entitled. We've been playing Splinter Cell since before most of the developers even had a job at Ubisoft. So I guess we reckon that we know a thing or two about Splinter Cell, maybe even more than the developers themselves. Does that sound arrogant? Probably. But it might just be true.

[marcelobourne]

no ironside no buy!!!

[kalle90]

Just rename and reskin (already kind of done lol) the new guy, call him Eric Johnson if you want to get the new guy really involved - there, a new hero. Then either say that Fisher is retired and gone or bring him back as the Lambert and leader of 4E.

[FreeRIdah]

I understand what you guys are trying to say about Sam voice. Your saying that a voice doesn't make a character. And thats true. It doesn't. A character is defined by his actions and choices, his emotions and responses to a situation. But here's the thing. Michael Ironside has an understanding of Sam Fisher that Eric Johnson simply never will. He has a way of responding to the situations (the script) which is totally unique to him. Its not a matter of whether or not he's a good actor. Michael Ironside has been building Sam Fisher since the first game was released back in 2002. He's not just a voice. Michael Ironside conveys Fisher's emotions and personalityin a way that only Ironside ever could. Thats what makes every voice actor unique. They all have different ways of conveying emotion and personality. Thats their job. The thing is Eric Johnson's 'way' of conveying emotion is just too different from Ironside's. It just doesn't fit the character thats been established over the past 10 years. Michael Ironside essentialy has the personality of Sam Fisher. From what I've seen from that 6min demo and that CGI trailer, Eric Johnson just doesn't have the right kind of personality for the job; he's too young. He lacks that worn and torn feeling. Every inflection of Ironsides voice bleeds through Sam's character and morality. You can literally feel Sam's old age and weariness, but also his strength of character when Ironside's behind the mic. It just isn't there when Eric Johnson is doing the job.

Eric Johnson would have been perfect for Desmond Miles. Hell when I saw Fisher scaling that cliff face in the demo, I couldn't help but think that they should have saved these gameplay elements for a modern day Assassin's Creed, with Desmond Miles as the main playable character.

Also a lot of people here have commented on the so called 'self-entitiled whiners' who don't do anything but complain. Yeah, we are whining. Because we want to help the developers make the best **** game they can. People will always complain. You can't please everyone, it's true. But you can minimise the amount of whining by making a **** good game.

And your **** right we're self entitled. We've been playing Splinter Cell since before most of the developers even had a job at Ubisoft. So I guess we reckon that we know a thing or two about Splinter Cell, maybe even more than the developers themselves. Does that sound arrogant? Probably. But it might just be true.

I agree with you. I feel the same.


The Sam Fisher you know is dead. Canada killed him, asked him to make one sacrifice too many, crossed the line too far. Some anonymous ******* killed him.
An anonymous ******* called Maxime Beland.


When I heard that Michael Ironside won't be the Voice Actor of Sam Fisher, I was thinking at the Intro of Conviction something like yours, but a little different.
"The thing you have to understand is this."
"The Sam Fisher you knew is dead...UBI Toronto asked Michael Ironside to make one sacrifice too many, to cross one line too far. That means a 54/55 years old Navy dude moving, running and jumping around like the main character from the Assassin's Creed series...so he left."

[Kerim_]

Spies vs. Mercs is back. ...and it's going to kick some serious ***.

-Zack

I hope you come back time and dl Chaos Theory, and not as a double agent that was horrendous, with wireless attacks. if as you say you're a fan of splinter cell, you'll understand of course that everything you are doing is wrong. you talk about marketing, and this is the error, because only think you have money? when it came out a splinter cell was a novelty, marketing was not calculated to try his success, chaos theory multiplayer Halo in the first month has passed, the problem that Ubisoft has not updated the games, but there is a large community of people who believe in the spy vs. mercenary, so as to create Project stelth, not enough to know that this is the right way? ubisoft has always initially risked his titles, but the exit of the xbox 360, is only pensado you money and make more games for everyone to sell. well, I think this forum all they want at least the return of chaos theory multiplayer style. and cooperatives of Chaos Theroy, not the crap of the conviction.

if you want the style multiplayer chaos Theroy please post "Return multiplayer chaos Theroy" tnx

[Andre202]

Well that's what the "Europeans" or in specific the Germans think of Blacklist:

http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamezone.de%2FSplinter-Cell-Blacklist-Xbox360-236316%2FNews%2FSplinter-Cell-Blacklist-im-Preview-Huebsch-aber-vollkommen-unnoetiger-Gewaltgrad-888979%2F&act=url

Someone knew that at the first interrogation you will be able to torture the guy? Ramming the knife into his shoulder and then the game asks you to rotate the knife through your analog stick. I am not sure what I should think about this, really doesn't fit to Sam in my opinion.

[SplinterJVCell]

I think that having the choice in a large equipement(rifles, guns, goggles) like in Conviction but with more silencious weapons will be a good thing.
Besides having a new hero will be great too, it's ununderstandable to see Sam going back behind enemy lines after all he went through in his personal life.

[JaRuTo]

Well that's what the "Europeans" or in specific the Germans think of Blacklist:

http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamezone.de%2FSplinter-Cell-Blacklist-Xbox360-236316%2FNews%2FSplinter-Cell-Blacklist-im-Preview-Huebsch-aber-vollkommen-unnoetiger-Gewaltgrad-888979%2F&act=url

Someone knew that at the first interrogation you will be able to torture the guy? Ramming the knife into his shoulder and then the game asks you to rotate the knife through your analog stick. I am not sure what I should think about this, really doesn't fit to Sam in my opinion.
Fisher did worse things, and how it fits the brutal interrogation if the words fails. Sometimes people are so stubborn that even if die will not say anything, so you have to force them by giving them unimaginable pain. I know this is sadistic, but that exactly soldiers do, extract information on auditions and Fisher is a soldier, right? He was a commando Seals together with Lambert and so on...

[Andre202]

Fisher did worse things, and how it fits the brutal interrogation if the words fails. Sometimes people are so stubborn that even if die will not say anything, so you have to force them by giving them unimaginable pain. I know this is sadistic, but that exactly soldiers do, extract information on auditions and Fisher is a soldier, right? He was a commando Seals together with Lambert and so on...
It's illegal to use torture to get your information, but that's not my point here. It's also unnecessary when it comes to the character of Sam Fisher, but I guess we have to give up on everything we know of him, do we?

[Si1entDark]

It's illegal to use torture to get your information, but that's not my point here. It's also unnecessary when it comes to the character of Sam Fisher, but I guess we have to give up on everything we know of him, do we?

With 5th freedom he can pretty much do any means necessary to gain information within reason.

There's a choice at the end of interrogations whether to kill the target or not. At least that brings in some morality for players who don't wanna just kill for the sake of it. :P

[nster81]

With 5th freedom he can pretty much do any means necessary to gain information within reason.

There's a choice at the end of interrogations whether to kill the target or not. At least that brings in some morality for players who don't wanna just kill for the sake of it. :P
Didn't Lambert always say that your gun is your last option though? I personally found the challenge of having a restraint against killing to be much more of an interesting twist in a level, which actually provided a challenge.

[Andre202]

With 5th freedom he can pretty much do any means necessary to gain information within reason.

There's a choice at the end of interrogations whether to kill the target or not. At least that brings in some morality for players who don't wanna just kill for the sake of it. :P

I know he has 5th freedom, I am talking about Sam, the character.

[Si1entDark]

Didn't Lambert always say that your gun is your last option though? I personally found the challenge of having a restraint against killing to be much more of an interesting twist in a level, which actually provided a challenge.

I went through conviction without my gun equipped on realistic because the game was far too easy. Ubi changed Sams character so much so that he's a shadow of his former self, it doesn't surprise me judging by how he went about doing things in the last game.

@Andre: I agree with you. It seems out of Sams usual character, but with everything that has happened in the last few games I don't think he holds the same moral values as he did like in the first 3 of the series. They tried to flesh his character out and Ubi got themselves in a mess, which is why they've gone back to a more geo-political theme.

[JaRuTo]

It's illegal to use torture to get your information, but that's not my point here. It's also unnecessary when it comes to the character of Sam Fisher, but I guess we have to give up on everything we know of him, do we?
Splinter Cell World is not only games, but also books and more. Sure... SC games don't do this, but if they rely only on games, that Fisher was seen by only a shallow guy with no expression and the fact that it is trained so that in extreme cases can kill or use brutal force if there is no way out.

[Andre202]

Splinter Cell World is not only games, but also books and more. Sure... SC games don't do this, but if they rely only on games, that Fisher was seen by only a shallow guy with no expression and the fact that it is trained so that in extreme cases can kill or use brutal force if there is no way out.
The books are telling a complete other story as opposed to the game series. I don't have anything against some influences from the book, like Hansen being included as an Operator or whatever.

[JaRuTo]

It is known that tell a different story, but in a good direction expand Fisher's method on an unprecedented scale, and whether you like it or not, are included in the canon. Fisher in the games that a.s.s. beef compared to books.

[kalle90]

I hate the trend of tying book events into games. You (makers) can't seriously expect me to read Halo, Splinter Cell, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Dead Space and whatever else books and comics there are to understand the games.

2 cents

[generalbrown20]

Just a quick note - to the extent that Ubisoft reads this board:

I have expressed some strong dissapointment from the demo video's, and maintain that based on what I saw, this is not the kind of Splinter Cell that I would buy. My primary concern is gameplay, and is based upon the way Conviction played out, coupled with the style shown in the recent Blacklist demo. Michael Ironside is and has been basically a non-issue for me, infact you will notice that I have made little comment about the change. Yes, Ironside is the voice of Sam Fisher...I never played Splinter Cell because of the voice I was hearing. I feel the same way about Sam's new appearance. Yes, I wish he looked a little older, but that's not going to keep me from buying the game if the gameplay and experience of "being a spy" comes together enjoyably. I could nitpick the climbing style and speed, which frankly was one of the more disturbing things that I saw. It would be nice if that was fixed. Additionally, the final deal breaker for me will be if the action approach is "forced" by the gameplay, in either all or most of the game. I won't buy the game if I'm simply "thrown a bone", as one commenter has said, by offering one traditional level. If however, the game truly accomodates multiple play styles, I will buy the game.

My reason for expressing this is that, the recent Gameinformer article has persuaded me that this game "may" actually have some Splinter Cell merit. Just a note to hopefully encourage Ubisoft that I'm the fence with this game, but that means I've come to the point that UbiZack has requested, that I am willing to keep an "open mind" as more information comes available. Best of luck to the development team. There was a time when simply the title Splinter Cell ensured a sale from me...As a consumer, I wouldn't mind if I found myself in that position in the future.

[JaRuTo]

I hate the trend of tying book events into games. You (makers) can't seriously expect me to read Halo, Splinter Cell, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Dead Space and whatever else books and comics there are to understand the games.

2 cents
You can't know what it looks like in the case of Splinter Cell because you no interested them. I don't know what you had objected to the books in the game but just in case of Splinter Cell is different. This is a compendium of information for fans about how Sam lived before he went on a mission and already in the field that Fisher as infiltrating the guarded areas of excessive caution and moved snuck and avoid guards to a whole new level using methods which will not find in the games signed the name Tom Clancy: Splinter Cell and they fits the SC series so well.

[MANGAJEDI]

I agree that interrogations have a lot of potential. They're one of the few things that Conviction sort of got right, and they were especially cool in coop. I did feel like it kind of steps on the light-hearted, comedic side the interrogations had before. Burning an interogatee's face on a stove is cool, but so is mind-f*cking him and knocking him out without seriously injuring him. How about letting us choose between the two?


Very true. That's the only thing I ended up liking from conviction in the long run. I've been a hardcore fan since the first game and I gave them the benefit of the doubt with conviction but I ended up only liking the interrogations and the mark and execute (only for breaching rooms.) after I had beaten it. Conviction did not have anywhere near the replay value that I had hoped compared to the older games. It did do some things right though. so I'm glad interrogations are in BL. When i'm not in a ghosting mood (which I always am.) I'll probably only use M&E to breach some rooms.

[SolidSage]

Yes, any plea for civility should always insult those with different beliefs as whiners or cry babies. Bravo.

Listen Emma, if the light hearted tone of that statement didn't come across I apologize. I was trying to lighten the mood. You are obviously not ready for that.
But this whole "Splinter Cell is Dead" thing is as much an insult, to the people who are STILL making Splinter Cell games, as anything else. More so IMO because it is demeaning to their efforts and careers, whereas my statement was ABOUT a negatively constructed comment, not something you created and put a lot of hard work into.

I think we should ALL try to avoid inflammatory statements, myself included.
Retract your comment about SC being "dead" and I'll retract my response about you being dramatic. And then we can all get along better.

P.S. You didn't like Titanic? C'mon, even I liked Titanic. :)

[NightGhost1994]

Listen Emma, if the light hearted tone of that statement didn't come across I apologize. I was trying to lighten the mood. You are obviously not ready for that.
But this whole "Splinter Cell is Dead" thing is as much an insult, to the people who are STILL making Splinter Cell games, as anything else. More so IMO because it is demeaning to their efforts and careers, whereas my statement was ABOUT a negatively constructed comment, not something you created and put a lot of hard work into.

I think we should ALL try to avoid inflammatory statements, myself included.
Retract your comment about SC being "dead" and I'll retract my response about you being dramatic. And then we can all get along better.
It's not just about her, It's about a lot of people around here. We all want Ironside back, but we probably won't see that. I know that Eric is diffrent and maybe even better than Ironside was, but some people are continuing to post threads about Ironside. Imagine how Eric is feeling when he comes to forum, the place where he excepts fans and all he can read about are the criticisms.
Pls give him a chance, give devs a chance to make a better game and as SolidSage said, don't call it dead.

[SolidSage]

You are correct Nightghost.
The "SC is dead" phrase is used a lot and I was taking the opportunity when Emma was the last to use it to address the phrase itself with a similar kind of....not well thought out comment....as an example of how easy it is to come across as ignorant or hypocritical or just offensive I guess. And Emma was quick to point that out. She certainly isn't a prime example of abusive posting, which makes her a better member to discuss it with.

[mikelybarger]

thanks for the reply, zack.

I have a little more to say about the voice, but i'll keep the mood positive. Back on the original xbox when we didn't have the stellar graphics and slick gameplay of today, ironside was an integral part of the series' mood. Since then, we've bled with him, triumphed with him, laughed at his interrogation methods, etc. The fact that ironside is getting the boot for the sake of motion capture makes us sc veterans feel cheated. (hold on, getting to the positive) i know there's the james bond/dr who argument, but those franchises change actors so the series can survive, not electively for gimmicky technological reasons. And i don't think we're so much demanding ironside back as we are that our dear, old friend sam fisher not be messed with. Eric seems like a really cool dude, and i like his voice; but if you force him on sam fisher, all of the loyal fans will resent him. After seeing the fan approval of "bob and steve" from chaos theory and archer/kestrel from conviction, it's obvious that fans are capable of embracing new splinter cells. Even if ironside as sam didn't become the new lambert (though that would be really cool), a new character would be an easy save for this game. Plus, the new sam looks different enough where it wouldn't be a ton of work to make him a new character alltogether.

Ok, done. Now for some brief (and still positive) gameplay stuff:

I know that ubisoft want to make a game that appeals to everyone. I think that the new elements (mark/execute, radar goggles, etc) are excellent, innovative ways to make the game accessible. I understand that accessibility is important if the masses are going to play it. I think i speak for a lot of the hardcore sc community (not all, but a lot) when i say that it would be easy to please us. Conviction wasn't a bad game through and through, it was just designed carelessly. Hardcore sc fans were forced to play in ways that would have gotten them an 8% stealth rating in the original games. Lambert taught us to cringe when we're moved to lethal force.

It looks like blacklist has potential to be more stealthy than conviction. If you guys do nothing else, 1: Give us a mode where we can be scored on how few fatalities/collateral damages we cause. And 2: Let us have both the knife and the ability to knock people out like in chaos theory (nonlethal gadgets are cool, but they can't replace sucker punching a guard to knock him unconscious). These two simple things will go miles with the hardcore base (and the first one it just a menu statistic. Could be implemented in what, hours?). Want to really spoil us? Take away radar and give us nightvision in this hardcore mode.

As for the other hardcore splinter cell fans (new or old, all of you who miss the chaos theory days) if you think that a new character or these minor gameplay tweaks would make you more likely to preorder the game, quote this post. If you only agree with part of my post, then only quote part of it. We need to show ubisoft that we aren't making noise for the sake of noise, that we are wiliing to work them and stay positive/open-minded, but we are going to be firm on he things that really matter.

this>>>>>>

[EmmaJordan]

Listen Emma, if the light hearted tone of that statement didn't come across I apologize. I was trying to lighten the mood. You are obviously not ready for that.
But this whole "Splinter Cell is Dead" thing is as much an insult, to the people who are STILL making Splinter Cell games, as anything else. More so IMO because it is demeaning to their efforts and careers, whereas my statement was ABOUT a negatively constructed comment, not something you created and put a lot of hard work into.

I think we should ALL try to avoid inflammatory statements, myself included.
Retract your comment about SC being "dead" and I'll retract my response about you being dramatic. And then we can all get along better.

P.S. You didn't like Titanic? C'mon, even I liked Titanic. :)

A radical change to the core mechanics of the game whereby the game essentially changes from a stealth game to a third person shooter would be considered, to a degree, almost an entire re-boot of the series if the story hadn't continued within the same time line. Saying Splinter Cell "is dead" certainly is metaphorical, colorful and maybe a bit dramatic. Sure, I will give you that. However, doesn't mean that the comment doesn't have some serious truth to it.

I have been very polite and have grounded my criticism of the new title in items specifically shown in the gameplay trailer and, of course, the Beland interviews quoted in this thread. My objections are fair. I don't like the removal of Michael Ironside for puposes of synching the CGI perfectly. I think this is a big mistake, but am resigned to it. I don't like the fact that Sam Fisher takes on 20-30 guys in the open and in daylight. Really, this scene would be at home in Call of Duty. I don't like the fact that stealth is "optional" as opposed to being core to the game play (Ubisoft has said you could approach missions stealthily, but that remains to be seen). I see it as nothing more than Ubisoft trying to get in on the Call of Duty crowd. I don't like Sam Fisher, the covert agent, calling in air strikes (why send in a covert agent if the mission is not covert - sorry, air strikes are not covert). I don't like the fact that Sam Fisher is portrayed as a 20-year old or that he can scale cliffs/buildings in an unreal manner (sorry takes me out of the game due to the lack of realism). Etc.

My criticism is not based on drama.... don't let the fact that I am a lady lead you to believe otherwise. My criticism has been largely constructive in the sense that I give very specific reasons as to why I hold my opinion. You may not like my criticism or you may feel differently about it. Fine.

I disagree that I am "demeaning" efforts and careers (isn't that a bit dramatic? no one is going to be fired because some poster doesn't like their unreleased game). I have done nothing different than a game reviewer would do (although certainly my review is limited to a trailer and interviews). Have I criticized what I have seen of the game? Of course. No doubt about it. With the exception of the return of Spy v. Mercenary (which I will reserve judgment on until I see it), do I like the new direction they have taken? No, not so far.

I am a loyal fan of the series. I have bought and played every game that Ubisoft has produced in the Splinter Cell line. As such a long time customer, I take issue with anyone that says that I am not allowed to criticize their products. Moreover, Ubisoft has gone on record saying that they are making a concerted effort to "listen to their fans". So, if I disagree with what I have seen, why should I not attempt to make my voice heard?

I appreciate that you were able to meet some of the fine folks at Ubisoft and that they gave you an opportunity to play the game. I am sure that they were really decent people. While I am annoyed to no end with his "vision" of Sam Fisher, I do think that Beland seems like someone I would probably have a drink with. I appreciate that you are also a fan of the new direction this game has taken. That is fine. Have I insulted you for that? Why would I? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I would not dare tell you how you should or should not feel about the game. However, this is a discussion forum and it has always been my understanding that such forums are for discussion. If we all agreed, it wouldn't be a dialogue - nor would it be interesting.

The ladies and gentlemen at Ubisoft are certainly capable of defending themselves. You need not vigorously attempt to do so, but you are certainly entitled to discuss/voice your opinion. Should Mr. Beland like to message me or debate me on the forum, I would welcome the opportunity to discuss it with him.

Don't agree with my opinion that this is only continuing "Conviction"'s tremendous divergence from the Splinter Cell franchise? Fine. Let's discuss that. Or, if you like the divergence, tell me how it fits into this game's universe. This is a dialogue. I am all for it. But don't call me the equivalent of a drama queen or dismiss my opinion as a hater.

[runningolf]

All this 2013, we can't do only voice over. Then why not bring in a new character? Have sam behind the lines, like how you had him in chaos theory in coop. Have him talk to you. That would make sams character come to a nice conclusion.

Many of us are properly open to a lot of new things, but bringing Sam back, and not having Ironside doing the voice... How would the Metal Gear Solid crowd feel like playing snake, but not with david hayter back?

Seriously, ubi. Try gameplay changes, I'm all there for a fresh Splinter cell experience and trying out something new, but don't mess with the series like that, when you have such a beloved character in the franchise.

Very well said if i found out that David Hayter wasn't the voice actor of Snake i would cry a river that same goes for this i cant see a splinter cell game without Micheal i mean i grew up on his voice his such a iconic Actor and Voice Actor, i love him very much i saw the trailer and i personally did not like it i was just shocked that Sam like a durpy kid says ok back to field work after what happened in Conviction, i was expecting him to be in Lambert's shoes instead we get him in the field with a much younger voice? Common Ubisoft you need to really check your pages before posting them for the story its drifting away as i see it.

Plus you guys Gotta Understand take away Michael and you killed Splinter Cell i will wait and see but i wont promise anything :(

[runningolf]

You said everything so right a tear went down my face thank you for supporting us my friend i am so happy that a true fan is out there speaking the voice thank you :D

[SolidSage]

@Emma
Didn't call you a hater. I called the "Splinter Cell is dead" phrase dramatic. It bothered you a lot, "Splinter Cell is dead" bothered me a lot. It's my opinion, and I exercised my right to express it, as you so eloquently identified as being the purpose of this forum.
I take no issue with your favoring a different approach to SC. It's obvious that Legacy style is gone for the time being, or at least not center stage as much as sharing the spotlight. I like that, I considered SCC an improvement to the franchise in many ways, even if it was light in the tool department.

I appreciate you admitting the phrase I called you out on was metaphorical. I hope you appreciate that me calling you/that phrase dramatic, has nothing to do with your gender whatsoever, and that it too, is as meaningless. I didn't dismiss your opinion, I responded to it and am still responding to it. That doesn't equate to dismissal as much as acknowledgement in my mind.

Max actually told me that he is NOT permitted to have a posting account for this forum, his clearance is read only, so yes, perhaps I have taken it upon myself to defend them somewhat, because they can't. But don't think that is a new thing, I've been going at it for years, on this forum and a few others. I am trying to encourage more of a real conversation with the Developers instead of the other approaches. I think it was part of the reason I was selected as an Ambassador, along with the fact that I am obviously a fan of the new direction pioneered in SCC.

I have said it before, ubisoft provided a real opportunity with these forums but it is up to us to achieve the potential. it looks like that is actually happening, I'd like to take a little bit of credit for it...just a tiny bit. If that's alright.

As it is, there are things about the Blacklist demo that I am on the fence about myself, they are few and never something I would consider a game breaker, especially when I was bombarded with so many graphical and technical improvements.

I hear you saying the approach is a desire to appeal to the COD crowd, that in itself is sort of a put down because COD is generally considered gaming lite, which I don't think SC is at all, in any of it's incarnations. But it is your opinion and that's fair enough. I think that SC is being made available to more players, and offering more freedom and choice to play our Special Forces Soldier however we choose. I was never a big fan of the massive restrictions imposed by the earlier titles. At times I think the fans on that side of the fence are calling for MORE restrictions for players who don't want to play SC the way they do. So yes, I am opposed to the opinion, I don't want the play styles of others imposed on me, especially when the team has made it clear that they CAN cater to three different approaches, Ghost, Panther and Action.

Sam fights for freedom doesn't he? That's what I want to.

[The_5_Freedoms]

However, I have seen a few posters try to quiet the criticism by saying, essentially, that "hey we should be quiet or Ubisoft will stop making Splinter Cell altogether"
Those would be some pretty stupid posters.

[JaRuTo]

@Emma
I think that SC is being made available to more players, and offering more freedom and choice to play our Special Forces Soldier however we choose. I was never a big fan of the massive restrictions imposed by the earlier titles. At times I think the fans on that side of the fence are calling for MORE restrictions for players who don't want to play SC the way they do. So yes, I am opposed to the opinion, I don't want the play styles of others imposed on me, especially when the team has made it clear that they CAN cater to three different approaches, Ghost, Panther and Action.

Sam fights for freedom doesn't he? That's what I want to.
Just to be at the end didn't turn out that the ghost players emerged the worse because it prevails in the action and playing style panther than hiding and evade enemies cause to narrow areas and forced gun fights won't allow us to... so I am not surprised that she has own concerns.

[SolidSage]

I got a lot of Ghost satisfaction out of Conviction. I think 45-50% of the co-op is Ghostable aside from interrogations. Someone else has to verify the SP because I spent more time in the Co-op.. I'll go through the co-op and show how to do it if some didn't explore it fully. I would say Ghosting is a lot harder in SCC than earlier titles, but that is a challenge I approve of.

SCC SP maps were narrower, i see that in a lot of SP's where a journey is more the focus. The co-op suffers less from this and it gave the feeling that they were more free style missions than a pathway that Sam had to follow to progress his story.
I certainly liked the co-op much more, but an additional player might have had a lot to do with that, along with the characters being more 'at work' than Sam appeared to be.

[Andre202]

I got a lot of Ghost satisfaction out of Conviction. I think 45-50% of the co-op is Ghostable aside from interrogations. Someone else has to verify the SP because I spent more time in the Co-op.. I'll go through the co-op and show how to do it if some didn't explore it fully. I would say Ghosting is a lot harder in SCC than earlier titles, but that is a challenge I approve of.
Guess why it's harder. Hint: In previous games it was harder to run and gun.
If you really think 45-50% of Coop is Ghostable, SP will be like 30% Ghostable. There are enough people classifying the Coop and Deniable Ops as the superior mode in Conviction because you had a lot more freedom there. Aggro Stealth could really expand there because it wasn't limited.

[JaRuTo]

It's no fun to play such as stealth mechanic if are terribly shallow, really. Maybe you like it, but we don't. Thats why not make as much fun as in previous games for us, ghost players.

[SolidSage]

Guess why it's harder. Hint: In previous games it was harder to run and gun.
If you really think 45-50% of Coop is Ghostable, SP will be like 30% Ghostable. There are enough people classifying the Coop and Deniable Ops as the superior mode in Conviction because you had a lot more freedom there. Aggro Stealth could really expand there because it wasn't limited.

I do think there is that much. I can do most of St Petersburg, minus the office EMP (still no kill), the bath house assassination (just the one guy), then the interrogation with dude on the phone (kill both). But in between those parts I don't even have to switch off a light or touch a guard. it makes it harder because the AI patterns don't get removed, and moving between them is SO much like classic SC.
Russian Embassy I have to kill the guys under the chandelier, but no one else, although the data hack does alert them you can hide from them. I can get to the suitcase nuke with a camera distraction no kills. Through the laser room clean until the interrogation, i did have to kill everyone in that room. then you can get to and extract on the helo without killing anyone, although there is a mandatory alert.
Er, Yastreb gets harder but I have got through all 4 data hacks without a kill. 2 kills at the emp then up the tower clean, through the next section clean until the canon room where you drop the box. that one took a couple of emps and a kill or three.
Mozdok is a pain. Through labs clean all the way to the emp and crane bit without a kill but I had to emp guards in the office. Down the multiple levels with the three turrets without a single kill I believe, maybe an emp, then following the EMPS to the hangar is a high kill count. The hanger actually isn't so bad, they get alerted but I can get on the plane without a kill.

Granted this doesn't constitute classic Ghosting, it's piece meal ghosting, but that is the nature of SCC. Still, it is super challenging and mad fun. I don't mind that there isn't a full ghost option.

I feel like it is time for me to give the SP a real go and see what is really available.

[DeafAtheist]

I do think there is that much. I can do most of St Petersburg, minus the office EMP (still no kill), the bath house assassination (just the one guy), then the interrogation with dude on the phone (kill both). But in between those parts I don't even have to switch off a light or touch a guard. it makes it harder because the AI patterns don't get removed, and moving between them is SO much like classic SC.
Russian Embassy I have to kill the guys under the chandelier, but no one else, although the data hack does alert them you can hide from them. I can get to the suitcase nuke with a camera distraction no kills. Through the laser room clean until the interrogation, i did have to kill everyone in that room. then you can get to and extract on the helo without killing anyone, although there is a mandatory alert.
Er, Yastreb gets harder but I have got through all 4 data hacks without a kill. 2 kills at the emp then up the tower clean, through the next section clean until the canon room where you drop the box. that one took a couple of emps and a kill or three.
Mozdok is a pain. Through labs clean all the way to the emp and crane bit without a kill but I had to emp guards in the office. Down the multiple levels with the three turrets without a single kill I believe, maybe an emp, then following the EMPS to the hangar is a high kill count. The hanger actually isn't so bad, they get alerted but I can get on the plane without a kill.

Granted this doesn't constitute classic Ghosting, it's piece meal ghosting, but that is the nature of SCC. Still, it is super challenging and mad fun. I don't mind that there isn't a full ghost option.

I feel like it is time for me to give the SP a real go and see what is really available.

**** that's pretty good I have not been able to do that much... but then I haven't really tried either. Perhaps I need to get a stealthy coop partner and take another run at it.

My thing with Conviction was playing Deniable Ops Infiltration mode but trying to get through it with all hand to hand kills only and not ever fire a weapon or use a gadget except sticky cam (but won't blow it up) and the portable EMP (I thought of it as Conviction's answer to the OCP)

[TCSCELL]

http://i.imgur.com/RYchi.jpg

Excellent. You've done a GREAT job Ubi Toronto. Thank you very much.

Do you know what this picture means or should i explain it?

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I'll agree that SCC is harder to ghost through but not for good reasons. it's because sometimes I'll grab a guy in the darkness and another enemy will see despite the fact that they shouldnt be able to, or because they will randomly change pattern thus ruining all of my work from last time. I am all for randomization if it randomizes each playthrough...not randomizes every time you die. Because the only way to ghost through hunter or infiltration mode is by killing everyone. I am forced to engage every enemy rather than being able to bypass them. If that was the case, it'd be a lot easier than past titles. I wouldn't have to worry about sound as much, mark and execute if I had to, etc. The beginning section of the Russian Embassy is annoying. If I could simply bypass them or all but a couple and then get in...I could. Even on infiltration mode i Could and it'd feel like classic SC with the cameras and stuff. But nope, of course not. That's another thing...Infiltration mode feels so...fake for the most part though. It sounds like a good mode for ghosters and classic fans but it isn't. Nevermind the fact that I have to engage every sinlge enemy but I must also worry about lasers that look like they were randomly placed and the designer called it a day.

[londinio]

one of the other comments made a great point. For the hXc fans, hearing the old sam voice does instantly make the other changes instantly forgivable.

Multiplayer should compensate for the likelihood of an open ending and stealth gameplay and open levels leaves room for the running mark-n-execute.
Nothing can really balance out the loss of michael ironside for the fans.


Bring Michael Ironside back, please. If you want to make Sam do things that are out of his usual character, then let us keep Michael Ironside. If you are going to replace his voice actor, then at least let Sam be himself. I don’t think there is much justification in replacing Ironside despite Ubisoft feeling otherwise.

I see what you’re saying, Zack and I believe you for the most part but the change of voice actor was a cosmetic change for the designers purposes and hardly one that had the fans in mind.

The impact of the voice actor on the character was an opinion stated by the designers and this is ours – we want Michael Ironside back.

I can see they are going back to the concepts of stretching the boundaries of 5th freedoms and I will not argue with that. As a matter of fact, everything about the game interests me EXCEPT for the voice actor. I suppose at this point it would be too late to go back to Ironside but hell, maybe give us a VA option after we beat the game.

Once we beat the game, we can go back through it with Mike. That’d be cool. :cool: Michael Ironside is a lot more frightening.

[NDCRP]

http://i.imgur.com/RYchi.jpg

Excellent. You've done a GREAT job Ubi Toronto. Thank you very much.

Do you know what this picture means or should i explain it?

My reaction to this picture:
LOL plus facepalm
-
Ubisoft Toronto you can't really find a more clear (and fun also) explanation for the negative reaction from the fan-base than the one contained in this picture.

[SolidSage]

I'll agree that SCC is harder to ghost through but not for good reasons. it's because sometimes I'll grab a guy in the darkness and another enemy will see despite the fact that they shouldnt be able to, or because they will randomly change pattern thus ruining all of my work from last time. I am all for randomization if it randomizes each playthrough...not randomizes every time you die. Because the only way to ghost through hunter or infiltration mode is by killing everyone. I am forced to engage every enemy rather than being able to bypass them. If that was the case, it'd be a lot easier than past titles. I wouldn't have to worry about sound as much, mark and execute if I had to, etc. The beginning section of the Russian Embassy is annoying. If I could simply bypass them or all but a couple and then get in...I could. Even on infiltration mode i Could and it'd feel like classic SC with the cameras and stuff. But nope, of course not. That's another thing...Infiltration mode feels so...fake for the most part though. It sounds like a good mode for ghosters and classic fans but it isn't. Nevermind the fact that I have to engage every sinlge enemy but I must also worry about lasers that look like they were randomly placed and the designer called it a day.

Maybe they HEAR you. Don't grab a dude if others are too close. There is some detection in the dark though, in close proximity in the eyeline of AI, I think that is a good feature. The dark doesn't make us invisible yo.:)

@Bob and Atheist
I'm on West Coast time but I'd be happy to run some stealthy co-op. I kinda need to approximately schedule it though cos of kids etc. Later evenings on weekends are better for me. Athiest I know a mic doesn't work for you, I am really good at using the Mark to identify threats and mic silence is a bit more real anyway. I don't have SCC for my PS tho so it's fog Sandman on Xlive.

[DeafAtheist]

I'm on the west coast too. I recently relocated to Oregon. And I too have a kid so I get it. Nights are usually better for me too with fewer distractions. Been awhile since I played Conviction and lately I've been playing a ton of Max Payne 3 multiplayer so it's likely I'll be incredibly rusty with Conviction while I re-familiarize myself with the game's controls.

[SolidSage]

No sweat. I've got my ghost Recon fingers on these days and I really need to make the most of the double XP weekend this week. I'm fine with rusty restarts, happens to the best of us. might be best to play it on an easier setting though because Realistic can really be a pain going for super stealth, whereas Rookie lets you get through a lot in one sitting.

[DeafAtheist]

That's fine not sure I'm quite ready to be torn away from Max Payne 3 yet anyway. Enjoying it way too much. I will be playing a bit of Mass Effect 3 this weekend though... just enough to fulfill the requirements for the weekend Challenge then going back to Max Payne. I want to level up to Rank 40 so I can unlock the Weapon Double Dealer Burst that allows you to make enemy's own grenades drop at their feet... primed and the Item loadout that makes enemies take longer to respawn after killing them. *evil grin*

[SolidSage]

^ Oooo, nasty! I'm after the Scout's augmented camo so I can jack up my stealth skillz while I am waiting for SCB.

[DeafAtheist]

I didn't get GRFS myself because I was disappointed with the beta. It was a camper's paradise. Instead of going to the objectives the other teams I played against just went to my team's spawn location and camped and sniped anyone that came out. No fun at all. So I ended up cancelling my pre-order.

[SolidSage]

I'm loving it. Feels really tactical to me. Objective game play is superior to other shooters I've played but I am sure they will or do, all have something similar now. Uncoordinated teams do suffer though, but I like trying to make them cohesive and overcome.
Different strokes for different folks though.
My wife constantly finishes top of the board with her Engineer. She really excels in that role and FINALLY a game makes a deeper play style available and rewards her for it.

I wonder what the ComDev's thoughts are on that since I have been helping take this thread way off topic. I need to do my chatting somewhere else and let threads stay less convoluted.

[DeafAtheist]

Well I haven't dismissed it entirely. I put it in my Gamefly queue and figured I'd give it a try before I buy. I like objective gameplay too. My favorite mode in Max Payne 3 is Gang Wars and there are different objectives you have to accomplish rather than just mindlessly killing each other. Like one objective requires one team to try to plant a bomb at a location while the other team tries to prevent it. If you succeed in planting it you have to secure the site and prevent the defending team from defusing it. Another one has you protecting a single player. If the other team kills that player their team wins. Much more fun than typical deathmatches.

[wattto]

So Mass Appeal is to simplify a game for little kids or people impatient and want to be like Rambo. Mass Appeal? More like call of duty appeal, Maybe it is time for a change all games that been coming out recently are virtually the same, Ubisoft needs to take more risks. Maybe a new fan base can be made just from going back to the original series. Stealth, teamwork, patience can be more fun then seeing how many kills you can get in 3 seconds....

[marcelobourne]

no ironside no buy

[KevinPDZ0916]

Zack,

I do not know if you can do this, but I recommend for you to let the team behind Spies vs. Mercenaries to consider the idea of remaking some classic Pandora Tomorrow and Chaos Theory SVM maps. Some favorites included Aquarius, Clubhouse, River Mall, Cinema, and so much more. Plus, I read a description on xbox live marketplace that listed 2-10 players for online multiplayer. If this has any truth to it, these maps would be huge with 5 vs 5 matches. So if the team did re-create some classic SVM maps, they would need some major tweaking and bigger landscapes, but it would also give classic SVM fans huge nostalgia. Also, i would not mind the re-creation of Boss House from Double Agent, either. That was a great map. Actually, even just a mansion map for SVM in general would be awesome. (:

[mistahkmak]

The Sam Fisher you know is dead. Canada killed him, asked him to make one sacrifice too many, crossed the line too far. Some anonymous ******* killed him.
An anonymous ******* called Maxime Beland.


i laughed

[Andre202]

I don't know, I think it's immature to say this.

[michaelanjello]

Yeah, not only is Maxime not the only one responsible for the game, Ubisoft has brought alot of stuff back to the series. Instead of BITC4ING about it, look at the videos yourself and answer youre own wuestions without jumping to conclusions.

Plus I have great respect for Beland for Bringing back alot of feature. Thanks man!

I can also see that there are alot of one hit wonders here that seem to just post comments and make threads without reading anything else on the forum. I liked the forums better pre-Blacklist announce, because there were actual constructive arguments, not these garbage comments that are made by nobodys( relatively speaking) and all of a sudden, theres chaos in all the threads.

I dont mind you posting youre opinion, but keep it civil. shouldnt there be a moderator here that bans members that post comments like Warcroft888. Thats just plain ridiculous

[dnaddington]

I like what I've seen so far...the crossbow was a nice touch imo. I'm hopeful (hopefully not naive) that there will be missions in this game that just bring back that feeling of tension that I felt while playing Chaos Theory. Missions where the lighting is so dark that using the goggles is essential. However I'm with quite a few folks on this one issue, bring back Ironside as Sam and have him be support, and bring on a new front man for 4th Echelon. Someone who Sam has trained. Would make for an awesome yet believable story.

[nster81]

I like what I've seen so far...the crossbow was a nice touch imo. I'm hopeful (hopefully not naive) that there will be missions in this game that just bring back that feeling of tension that I felt while playing Chaos Theory. Missions where the lighting is so dark that using the goggles is essential. However I'm with quite a few folks on this one issue, bring back Ironside as Sam and have him be support, and bring on a new front man for 4th Echelon. Someone who Sam has trained. Would make for an awesome yet believable story.
This is Conviction tech, and by the looks of it, light and shadow will not be a prevalent feature, just a cover-based hiding.

[mistahkmak]

Yeah, not only is Maxime not the only one responsible for the game, Ubisoft has brought alot of stuff back to the series. Instead of BITC4ING about it, look at the videos yourself and answer youre own wuestions without jumping to conclusions.

Plus I have great respect for Beland for Bringing back alot of feature. Thanks man!

I can also see that there are alot of one hit wonders here that seem to just post comments and make threads without reading anything else on the forum. I liked the forums better pre-Blacklist announce, because there were actual constructive arguments, not these garbage comments that are made by nobodys( relatively speaking) and all of a sudden, theres chaos in all the threads.

I dont mind you posting youre opinion, but keep it civil. shouldnt there be a moderator here that bans members that post comments like Warcroft888. Thats just plain ridiculous

In defense of warcrofts comment it was a joke in bad taste. There have been far worse posts than his, plus it was more or less a side jab because he utilized convictions script. I Have lost alot of respect for the developers. I enjoyed conviction, although i did believe it was a one time deviation from the splintercell formula, due to the rage of sam and centering the gameplay around it. I post constructive criticisms for the developers and I have already said my peace in page one of this thread.

[sameer_monier]

This is Conviction tech, and by the looks of it, light and shadow will not be a prevalent feature, just a cover-based hiding.
I don't think the Team that brought L&S back to SC after it was going to be all about social, would abandon that mechanic in SCB.

[nster81]

I don't think the Team that brought L&S back to SC after it was going to be all about social, would abandon that mechanic in SCB.
After that team crafted what they did with SAR and CT, I believe they would have been open to fan suggestion and they would have found a happy medium with creating stealth within the fugitive play. Story-wise, that direction would have made more sense in my opinon as well. Light and shadow was brought back based on the outcry, and for a lot of people, poorly in the form of the black and white filter.

We'll never know, but Ferland's team would have easily earned my trust in their product personally.

[Bill-E-Bob]

Does Ubisoft Shanghai still exist? Why don't they make Splinter Cell games anymore? I loved Pandora Tomorrow (the train level is one of my favourites in the series). At least they respect the franchise, the characters and the gameplay mechanics.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ubisoft-allow-michael-ironside-to-play-sam-fisher-in-splinter-cell-blacklist

[DeafAtheist]

Does Ubisoft Shanghai still exist? Why don't they make Splinter Cell games anymore? I loved Pandora Tomorrow (the train level is one of my favourites in the series). At least they respect the franchise, the characters and the gameplay mechanics.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ubisoft-allow-michael-ironside-to-play-sam-fisher-in-splinter-cell-blacklist

Yes they do. They recently made the I Am Alive downloadable game and they are the studio that is making Far Cry 3. I believe they don't make Splinter Cell games anymore because of the dismal reception of the next gen version of Double Agent. And also the fact that Splinter Cell games out of Montreal always sold better and had a better reception than Shanghai's Splinter Cell games.

[Andre202]

I only know of Montreal who is making FarCry 3 not really Shanghai.

[DeafAtheist]

You're right they aren't the main studio working on Far Cry 3 but I believe they ARE collaborating on it.

[Andre202]

Ohh, well. I didn't know about that. This may be the case.

[Bill-E-Bob]

I really enjoyed the Ubi Shanghai SC games. I hope they get another chance in the future.

[Andre202]

I really enjoyed the Ubi Shanghai SC games. I hope they get another chance in the future.

Don't get your hopes up to high. The Shanghai games just didn't sell to well. So I don't think Ubi will get them another chance for Splinter Cell. I may be wrong though.

[McFisher9257]

Look, UbiZack. It's clear to me from the passionate way you speak to us through your post that you do indeed care about Splinter Cell like we do. But although you want us to trust you on this, you aren't getting mine. I don't care how much you say you care about this franchise, I am not going to accept anything you say as factual until I see actual gameplay videos proving your claims, and/or until this PoS is released so I can see for myself. The entire forum got screwed over by previous forum devs back when Conviction was in development, who completely deceived us on more than one occasion regarding details of story and gameplay. This fanbase has been f***ed over too many times now. So if you want trust from us, or at least from me anyway, you are going to have to earn it. Good luck.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Yeah, Shanghai games had some good ideas but they lacked in other areas. For instance...the train mission was very unique and to this day is a very unique mission with a totally unique crawl animation never seen again. The LAX mission is such an amazing mission imo and feels very similar to the CIA mission. But the sound quality of PT was TERRIBLE. Atrocious. Not only did every enemy sound the same, American and bored-sounding -- terrible acting...but the actual quality sounded muffled and just all around weird when compared to all the other titles. Then DA for the 360 had some amazing infiltration sequences and very unique missions such as transplanting what everyone knew about SC into broad daylight without the goggles or into the snow and added swimming but the JBA missions were terrible. I wouldn't mind if they trade off again -- next game is Shanghai, next is Montreal, then back to Toronto. *shrug*

[ImaDoctorJim]

Okay, I'm working on a YouTube video about Blacklist. It's going to be all about features that the hardcore Splinter Cell fans want in the game, so I need input from you guys. I just need you to answer two questions for me:

1: What is your biggest gripe with Splinter Cell: Blacklist so far BESIDES THE VOICE*?

2: What is the #1 feature you definitely want to see in Splinter Cell: Blacklist?

You can leave your answers here or on Twitter @ImDoctorJim. However you decide to submit your answer, make sure to include the hashtag #WatchJim if you want me to use your name in the video. If you want to remain anonymous, simply leave the hashtag out. Feel free to be detailed in your gripes. This one's for the fans.

EDIT: ADDED BONUS QUESTION:
3: Rate each of the previous console Splinter Cell games between 1 and 10, with 10 being the best. (SC, SC:PT, SC:CT, SC:DA ((Xbox/PS2/GC/Wii)), SC:DA ((Xbox 360/PC)), SC:C) If you're in the mood to further express your oppinion, I'd love to hear why you gave each game the rating you did. Your call :)

*I'm on the community's side on that issue, but this video is strictly about gameplay.

[mistahkmak]

Okay, I'm working on a YouTube video about Blacklist. It's going to be all about features that the hardcore Splinter Cell fans want in the game, so I need input from you guys. I just need you to answer two questions for me:

1: What is your biggest gripe with Splinter Cell: Blacklist so far BESIDES THE VOICE*?

2: What is the #1 feature you definitely want to see in Splinter Cell: Blacklist?

You can leave your answers here or on Twitter @ImDoctorJim. However you decide to submit your answer, make sure to include the hashtag #WatchJim if you want me to use your name in the video. If you want to remain anonymous, simply leave the hashtag out. Feel free to be detailed in your gripes. This one's for the fans.


*I'm on the community's side on that issue, but this video is strictly about gameplay.

1) its a tie between crack monkey climbing and regenerative health

2) extremely realistic AI. for instance if your invisible in the shadows and there is a room with a light on behind you, the enemies should be able to see your figure blocking their view of the room behind you. I also want the AI to stop shouting the same 1 liners every 15 seconds

[Steelercell]

Okay, I'm working on a YouTube video about Blacklist. It's going to be all about features that the hardcore Splinter Cell fans want in the game, so I need input from you guys. I just need you to answer two questions for me:

1: What is your biggest gripe with Splinter Cell: Blacklist so far BESIDES THE VOICE*?

2: What is the #1 feature you definitely want to see in Splinter Cell: Blacklist?

You can leave your answers here or on Twitter @ImDoctorJim. However you decide to submit your answer, make sure to include the hashtag #WatchJim if you want me to use your name in the video. If you want to remain anonymous, simply leave the hashtag out. Feel free to be detailed in your gripes. This one's for the fans.



*I'm on the community's side on that issue, but this video is strictly about gameplay.

1.) Forced action sequences based on what I have seen on the demo video (Shootout with the terrorists on the back of the truck + calling in an air strike)

2.) Old gadgets (OCP, SC20K, Night Vision Goggles, etc.)

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Agreed.

1. Forced action is my biggest gripe....I need to be able to go stealth without being punished.
2. The old gadgets such as nightvision goggles and the sc-20k....those two are the only ones I "need" back...I can live without thermal or OCP or whatever but at least those two.

[NightGhost1994]

I don't mind much about SC-20K. Yes It was useful in impossible scenes xd, but most of the time I used takedowns

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

nightvision is more important IMO but something about seeing the sc-20k just makes splinter cell....splinter cell yknow? That's why I always have the sc3000 on my back in SCC. If at least the sc3000 returns...I'll be happy -- the 20k was cooler though haha -- especially the first version.

[CamberGreber]

1. Wanted Analogue Controlled crouch.

2.Closer than ever Animation needs to return.

[Warcroft888]

I hereby nominate Warcroft888 as embasador to Ubisoft on the Splinter Cell fan base's behalf. All those in favor, say "Aye".

Ha ha. Thanks man. That would be pretty awesome actually. I've always thought that every game should have its own representative within the gaming community. Someone who can communicate back and forth between the gamers and the developers to bounce ideas back and forth. That would undoubtably be the best way of developing a game. The developers have access to an unlimited source of ideas and can get a solid perspective on the overall feel that gamers have about the game; while gamers get to have their say and actually get to have some input into how the game should be developed.

I just wish I actually worked at Ubisoft. Then I could knock some heads together. :D

[Warcroft888]

Yeah, not only is Maxime not the only one responsible for the game, Ubisoft has brought alot of stuff back to the series. Instead of BITC4ING about it, look at the videos yourself and answer youre own wuestions without jumping to conclusions.

Plus I have great respect for Beland for Bringing back alot of feature. Thanks man!

I can also see that there are alot of one hit wonders here that seem to just post comments and make threads without reading anything else on the forum. I liked the forums better pre-Blacklist announce, because there were actual constructive arguments, not these garbage comments that are made by nobodys( relatively speaking) and all of a sudden, theres chaos in all the threads.

I dont mind you posting youre opinion, but keep it civil. shouldnt there be a moderator here that bans members that post comments like Warcroft888. Thats just plain ridiculous

@michaelanjello - You're right. Although it was intended as a lighthearted joke (admittedly a bad one, and in bad taste), it was also immature and childish of me. I apologise fully to Maxime Beland, Ubisoft, and anyone else I might have offended with my comment. From now on I shall fully dedicate my posts solely to constructive comments only. I would advice everyone else to do the same.

[Warcroft888]

Okay, I'm working on a YouTube video about Blacklist. It's going to be all about features that the hardcore Splinter Cell fans want in the game, so I need input from you guys. I just need you to answer two questions for me:

1: What is your biggest gripe with Splinter Cell: Blacklist so far BESIDES THE VOICE*?

2: What is the #1 feature you definitely want to see in Splinter Cell: Blacklist?

You can leave your answers here or on Twitter @ImDoctorJim. However you decide to submit your answer, make sure to include the hashtag #WatchJim if you want me to use your name in the video. If you want to remain anonymous, simply leave the hashtag out. Feel free to be detailed in your gripes. This one's for the fans.



*I'm on the community's side on that issue, but this video is strictly about gameplay.

Well lets see...

1) Personally my biggest problem so far with Blacklist (appart from Michael Ironsides absence) would have to be the strong focus on action; the way the game seems to make players rely on mark and execute. Basically just the overall lack of stealth in what is supposed to be a stealth game.

2) The #1 feature I would like to see returned is slower paced sneaking, with the ability to adjust your movement speed and the presence of a sound/light meter to accompany it. Also someone mentioned the 'closer than ever' animation. I totally agree with that. The 'closer-than-ever' animation was so cool and made me feel like a real badass, especially when you don't actually end up doing anything to the guard and just bypass them instead.

[Steelercell]

nightvision is more important IMO but something about seeing the sc-20k just makes splinter cell....splinter cell yknow? That's why I always have the sc3000 on my back in SCC. If at least the sc3000 returns...I'll be happy -- the 20k was cooler though haha -- especially the first version.

The first version used in SC and SC:PT is based on the F2000 Standard/Assault, the version used in SC:CT and SC: DA is based on the F2000 Tactical.

[reddragonhrcro]

1.) Forced action sequences based on what I have seen on the demo video (Shootout with the terrorists on the back of the truck + calling in an air strike)

2.) Old gadgets (OCP, SC20K, Night Vision Goggles, etc.)

Actualy its not forced,i heard that its optional,seen a video where he avoided the terrorists.(Apperently there are voice commands in the game so that you can call in an airstrike by voice or other things like shut off the power)

[Steelercell]

Actualy its not forced,i heard that its optional,seen a video where he avoided the terrorists.(Apperently there are voice commands in the game so that you can call in an airstrike by voice or other things like shut off the power)

Lucky for that then. I'll have to look for this video. Thanks.

[Warcroft888]

Actualy its not forced,i heard that its optional,seen a video where he avoided the terrorists.(Apperently there are voice commands in the game so that you can call in an airstrike by voice or other things like shut off the power)

Wait.. what video? I would very much like to see this video. Could you please provide a link? :)

[G0M3RMAN2]

The guy who plays Sam isn't Sam. Sam is an idea a concept, a character. He is great no matter who plays him the story must move forward. Like batman and kirk make sure that Sam stays true to character and I'll be adding blacklist to my collection. What I am more interested to now is will there be a storyline thread that links the games and will the writting be as good as Convictions. Remember: Zack you are too blessed to be stessed about the nay sayers because true fans will buy. Case and point "Double Agent" in my collection. It's not my favorite but it's still there...

Tell me a great story, give me awsome gameplay and I will do what gamers do, PLAY!!! Have fun making it cause I will know when I play it. Why? cause gamers know that kinda stuff.

Peace.:cool:

[Andre202]

Wait.. what video? I would very much like to see this video. Could you please provide a link? :)

You can avoid attacking the guys. You don't have to call in airstrike. It's optional. I just want to know if the Predator Drone scene is optional depending on you how you played the level, cause I really don't want to play something which reminds me of a Third-Person-Shooter.

[dnaddington]

If its going to be Sam and not a new guy that has been trained by Sam, I just don't know how the new voice is going to affect me. I mean if I'm making this game and I ask myself, "what could make this game better", the obvious answer is to bring back Ironside's voice. Other than the voice, if I have gone through a large part of the mission undetected, I DON'T want an action scene to be forced on me where suddenly, and magically they have become aware of my presence. If I have not been detected yet, I haven't been detected yet. No need for the action because they don't know I'm there. This policy should be enacted through out the game. If the story is dictating that there be some action so be it but don't have them coming at me with guns blazing and calling my name until they know I'm there. Second I'll have a big gripe if light and shadow do not return. The graphics so far look great so if they don't throw in a considerable amount of light and shadow I'll be disappointed.

[ImaDoctorJim]

Thanks for the replies, guys. The input is really valuable, so keep it coming. I'm writing the script for the video tonight and I hope to have it recorded, edited, and ready to upload before the end of tomorrow. I've been doing a ton of fact-checking, interview-watching, and tweeting with the devs, so the video will have some valuable information for you guys as well as containing your concerns laid out for the Ubisoft Toronto team. Zack's gonna watch it before I release it to you guys to make sure I've got my facts straight, so it MIGHT be Tuesday before you guys see it, but I hope not. I've been crazy about Splinter Cell since the first game was a playable demo at Wal-Mart, so I really want to be involved in the community on here and make sure that Ubisoft is on the same page with us. I feel like the stage demo was kind of a blunder, but I have some theories that I will share with you guys in the video.

Here's my original post again for reference, and I added a bonus question.


Okay, I'm working on a YouTube video about Blacklist. It's going to be all about features that the hardcore Splinter Cell fans want in the game, so I need input from you guys. I just need you to answer two questions for me:

1: What is your biggest gripe with Splinter Cell: Blacklist so far BESIDES THE VOICE*?

2: What is the #1 feature you definitely want to see in Splinter Cell: Blacklist?

You can leave your answers here or on Twitter @ImDoctorJim. However you decide to submit your answer, make sure to include the hashtag #WatchJim if you want me to use your name in the video. If you want to remain anonymous, simply leave the hashtag out. Feel free to be detailed in your gripes. This one's for the fans.

EDIT: ADDED BONUS QUESTION:
3: Rate each of the previous console Splinter Cell games between 1 and 10, with 10 being the best. (SC, SC:PT, SC:CT, SC:DA ((Xbox/PS2/GC/Wii)), SC:DA ((Xbox 360/PC)), SC:C) If you're in the mood to further express your oppinion, I'd love to hear why you gave each game the rating you did. Your call :)

*I'm on the community's side on that issue, but this video is strictly about gameplay.

[mateus99]

^^^imadoctorjim

1:my biggest issue with scb is the forced action. we want more stealth options
2:LOTS OF OPTIONS (windows,doors,vents etc)

3:as for the sc games i only played the pc versions and only DA on 360

SPLINTER CELL SAR: 9 it really is classic stealth,simple and linear most of the time,using gadgets and other things we try to outsmart the guards making every encounter special.

SPLINTER CELL PT : 9 just like the first one improves visuals and makes the game even better with some gameplay improvments

SPLINTER CELL CT :10 The best of the franchice because of the open levels, the options,the gameplay, and overall everything in the game was amazing.

SPLINTER CELL DA (360):8 never forgave ubisoft for the unfinished pc version with all the bugs.but the 360 version was good it kept most of the good things for CT liked the story line and the position the character was in.as for the old gen version it was a better version overall (9) keeping things the same but giving us something new in the process.

SPLINTER CELL CONV :8 for a new start of the series it was good the new mechanics were added mostly to make the game feel new and to appeal to the new players and the biggest problem the game had like scb is going to have are the forced action scenes that detract from the proper sc experience.but overall really liked the feeling of sam being a predator, a man on the edge that has lost everything.for a next gen sc it was good but felt rushed.

Im really hoping scb is going to offer a mix of CT and CONV without sacrifising what SC stands for.i havent seen enough to make an statement but i hope for the best.

[DeafAtheist]

I just want to know if the Predator Drone scene is optional depending on you how you played the level, cause I really don't want to play something which reminds me of a Third-Person-Shooter.

Predator drone scene? Did I miss something?

[mateus99]

Predator drone scene? Did I miss something?

In a german article someone played an extended version of the demo we were shown.were the game after the interogation switched perspective in a drone where the player had to use missiles to destroy some AA guns.take note though that the article was not exacly clear on that matter whether or not we were controling the missiles or if it was a cutscene.
yeah..... thats what worries me about the game.

[ImaDoctorJim]

for the old gen version it was a better version overall (9) keeping things the same but giving us something new in the process.

Yeah, DA was so much better on original Xbox, PS2, etc. It felt like a real Splinter Cell game since it ran on the Chaos Theory engine. A lot of people who played on 360 don't know that.

[mateus99]

Yeah, DA was so much better on original Xbox, PS2, etc. It felt like a real Splinter Cell game since it ran on the Chaos Theory engine. A lot of people who played on 360 don't know that.

We cant exacly blame them. most of them dont even know that the old gen version even exists.

[CamberGreber]

First off let me thank you for Communicating with us.
This is a very important step since UBI has history of ignoring the forums.

You have to understand UBISOFT has lost a HUGE amount of trust from SC fans over the last 3 years. The history so far suggests that UBISOFT doen't care about there original fanbase. The Casaualzation of the entire TOM CLANCY franchise since 2006 has destroyed these fans trust in UBISOFT over the last 7 years.This trust can only be brought back through action not words.
We requrie more than just an old gadget here a pair of goggles there. Those are just Window dressings if not backed up by a focus on STEALTH.


I think the team was BRAVE for making the change - they KNEW you'd be upset, but they're willing to take it to make Blacklist the game you WANT (whether you realize that yet or not).!

NO CUTESCENES WHERE NEVER A PRIORITY TO THIS FANBASE.
It is very Untactful to make the above statement.
I am sure you are a good guy. I am sure you mean well, but I don't see why you think that comment was going to do anything but throw gasoline on this fire.
Assuming you know what we want more than us is rude and arrogant. I am a little suprised since if you where reading this forum you would know how strong people feel on this.

[CamberGreber]

1. NEED Analouge Controled Crouch and Movements
(rappeling, shimmying, climbing, open/close doors more than just binary movements)

2. NEED Lockpicking, Hacking and Vents

3. NEED Nightvison and Thermal

4. NEED Open Levels.

[ImaDoctorJim]

We cant exacly blame them. most of them dont even know that the old gen version even exists.

True that.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I've known about the more Chaos Theory-esque original xbox version of Double Agent for QUITE sometime and just haven't been able to get it. I'm working on it though.

I do still like the 360 edition...minus the first 3 JBA HQ missions. The 4th feels like a typical SC level.

[CamberGreber]

I've known about the more Chaos Theory-esque original xbox version of Double Agent for QUITE sometime and just haven't been able to get it. I'm working on it though.

Double Agent (XBOX1) is a must own for any Chaos Theory Fan.
It is not as polished as CT and there first level is the weakest in the game but by the second level the game picks up pace.
Unlike the completely unfinished Double Agent (360) DA for xbox actually has a coherent story with a full script.
The only mission they don't have a duplicate for is Shanghai.

There are also I should point out improvements to CT like Opsat border visible when in use and Nightvision that mixs the best FX from PT and CT.
Most Importantly its made by Ubisoft Montreal and Not Ubisoft Shanghai.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I still like the 360 version but it's definitely not CT. My favorite game is the original, a VERY close second is CT, and then PT and DA(360) about tied -- they each had some hits and misses.

I'm not sure I understand the Opsat thing? and The fisheye lens from CT and the blind effects from PT or...? Cause other than that PT's nightvision was the same as the original if I remember correctly.

I am excited to play the game. even the first mission seems fun once you get inside the complex but even the snowy outside seems cool. Awww...no Shanghai? That was the most classic Splinter Cell mission in the 360 version and I bet it'd be even better for the original xbox version. Darn. Oh well.

[UbiZack]

First off let me thank you for Communicating with us.
This is a very important step since UBI has history of ignoring the forums.

You have to understand UBISOFT has lost a HUGE amount of trust from SC fans over the last 3 years. The history so far suggests that UBISOFT doen't care about there original fanbase. The Casaualzation of the entire TOM CLANCY franchise since 2006 has destroyed these fans trust in UBISOFT over the last 7 years.This trust can only be brought back through action not words.
We requrie more than just an old gadget here a pair of goggles there. Those are just Window dressings if not backed up by a focus on STEALTH.



NO CUTESCENES WHERE NEVER A PRIORITY TO THIS FANBASE.
It is very Untactful to make the above statement.
I am sure you are a good guy. I am sure you mean well, but I don't see why you think that comment was going to do anything but throw gasoline on this fire.
Assuming you know what we want more than us is rude and arrogant. I am a little suprised since if you where reading this forum you would know how strong people feel on this.

Hang on a second, Camber...

You're quoting me, but not referencing the initial post - which stated that Ubisoft was cowardly for veering away from Ironside.
I was suggesting that it would have been cowardly to stick with the status quo, instead of pushing the gameplay forward.

I don't pretend to know exactly what you want.
...but I have a pretty darn good idea as to what the consensus on the forum wants - because I want it too.

I want this game to kick ***. I want this game to have lots of stealth.

...I know it has both in spades... but we can't show it yet, because it's simply not ready.
Hence the "whether you know it or not."

Let's not go thinking that I'm covering this with broad strokes on purpose.
This means a lot to me.

Making you all happy is important to me... but most important is making an incredible Splinter Cell game.

Please understand the context before you accuse me of being arrogant and rude.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Oh sh*t....sh*t just got real! UbiZack...I hope you know I appreciate your willingness to talk with the fans and come on here. Let me say, you have been a big factor in making me believe this game will be worth a buy from me. Who knows? Once I see the gameplay I may preorder a collectors edition or something -- or I may rip my hair out and cry. I don't think you're blatantly lying but maybe you are and in the event of that scenario....UGH. But I doubt it so I'm eager to see more. I'm so ANTSY!!!

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

is the garage really the only spot? Now I see why I liked that part so much. They still got it dumbed down what with the one speed crouch, the cameras with their spotlights for...no reason whatsoever, etc.

LOL

[ImaDoctorJim]

Hang on a second, Camber...

You're quoting me, but not referencing the initial post - which stated that Ubisoft was cowardly for veering away from Ironside.
I was suggesting that it would have been cowardly to stick with the status quo, instead of pushing the gameplay forward.

I don't pretend to know exactly what you want.
...but I have a pretty darn good idea as to what the consensus on the forum wants - because I want it too.

I want this game to kick ***. I want this game to have lots of stealth.

...I know it has both in spades... but we can't show it yet, because it's simply not ready.
Hence the "whether you know it or not."

Let's not go thinking that I'm covering this with broad strokes on purpose.
This means a lot to me.

Making you all happy is important to me... but most important is making an incredible Splinter Cell game.

Please understand the context before you accuse me of being arrogant and rude.

I knew what you meant, Zack. My stance on the voice stands, but I think you're correct; the devs are taking a lot of risks for the right reasons. I think it's easy for the die-hard fans to jump to conclusions because they're still terrified that Blacklist will be like Conviction. You and Max have convinced me that's not going to be the case though. :)

[CamberGreber]

Thank you for responding so quickly. Its nice to have this type of back and forth with UBI for once :)

"As far as the Ironside thing goes (and I really don't want to harp on this)... I honestly think it would be more cowardly to not make the change and keep Blacklist like Conviction.
It's not. I think the team was BRAVE for making the change - they KNEW you'd be upset, but they're willing to take it to make Blacklist the game you WANT (whether you realize that yet or not)."

I interpreted the above statement to mean that the term " game you want" was referring to the change in voice actor.
If I miss interpreted what you said and posted too hasty I apologize.

I still think that choosing someone else just to insure full performance capture, face and body simultaneously is not a good reason considering.
Cutscenes should not be a huge priority in splinter cell. I also think the difference is minimal in the context of a game.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Well also the fact that it's not like LA Noire where they used the faces of the actors for the respective characters....the face doesn't even look like Eric so Michael Ironside could easily see what the cutscene looks like and then dub over based on Sam's facial expressions. Whenever Sam's back is turned or too far to tell what his expression is, Ironside can go off of what he was doing and for when Sam talks during gameplay WHO CARES? It's so pulled back, it doesnt matter. I do have to say though...gameplay is the bigger priority for me because if they keep good gameplay up and continue it with the next game...then maybe Ironside will return. I'm sure that since that appears to be the biggest complaint they will try their hardest to get him back for SC7.

[ardennesbaker]

Dear Ubisoft,
I would like to say that I am saddened by the decision to replace Michael Ironside as Sam Fisher. I do believe that the new actor is very competent and will perform admirably and that's definitely not in the question. The question is what is Splinter Cell and who is Sam Fisher? Fans love consistency. When I started playing Conviction, how did I know it was a Splinter Cell game? Very simply, as soon as I heard Michael Ironside's growly voice, I knew I was home. Likewise, Sam Fisher has been defined by Michael Ironside and very simply, if you remove him, there isn't much left to tell us it's Sam Fisher. It's like changing the voice of Darth Vader. Now, I understand that the motion capture is a challenge and I definitely respect your pursuit for advanced technology. However, since you're such creative and innovative people, I'm sure you would find a way to combine Michael Ironside's voice with a motion capture. Of course, I can only guess how, but since you work in this industry, I'm sure you would come up with some lovely ideas to make it happen. Lastly, this game can only GAIN from Michael Ironside. The fans love him, the critics love him. If you check any review, and in particular Conviction review, everyone praised the strong performance by Ironside and for a lot of people he's that special magic ingredient which really puts Sam Fisher forward as a character. If you lose Ironside, you lose consistency, you lose fans and furthermore it depreciates the old games since they will now form an unfortunate gap with the new game. Thus, the name Splinter Cell will simply lose a lot of its credibility. I hope you understand what this means to the fans and I would very much appreciate it if you considered this request. Thank you for your time. Best regards.

[Steelercell]

3: Rate each of the previous console Splinter Cell games between 1 and 10, with 10 being the best. (SC, SC:PT, SC:CT, SC:DA ((Xbox/PS2/GC/Wii)), SC:DA ((Xbox 360/PC)), SC:C) If you're in the mood to further express your oppinion, I'd love to hear why you gave each game the rating you did. Your call :)

#1 - Chaos Theory 10/10 (PC & Xbox) One of my top 5 games.

#2 - Splinter Cell SAR 9/10 (PC, Xbox & PS2) One of my top ten, very nostalgic.

#3 - Pandora Tomorrow 8/10 (PC & Xbox) It was fun, the train level is a classic. I liked its differences and introduction of Multiplayer.

#4 - Double Agent (Xbox) 7/10 (Xbox 360) 5/10 Xbox version was good, Xbox 360 version was so/so.

#5 - Conviction (Xbox 360) 8/10... I admit, I enjoyed it, but felt that the original feel was lost. Never tried it on PC, wasn't a fan of the required online connection and high performance demand.

[CamberGreber]

#1 - Chaos Theory 10/10 (PC & Xbox) One of my top 5 games.

#2 - Splinter Cell SAR 9/10 (PC, Xbox & PS2) One of my top ten, very nostalgic.

#3 - Pandora Tomorrow 8/10 (PC & Xbox) It was fun, the train level is a classic. I liked its differences and introduction of Multiplayer.

#4 - Double Agent (Xbox) 7/10 (Xbox 360) 5/10 Xbox version was good, Xbox 360 version was so/so.

#5 - Conviction (Xbox 360) 8/10... I admit, I enjoyed it, but felt that the original feel was lost. Never tried it on PC, wasn't a fan of the required online connection and high performance demand.

I honestly just realized that SAR stood for Stealth Action Redefined.

I was like what the heck are you guys talking about is there a Splinter Cell game I am Unaware of.

Don't I feel stupid.

[CamberGreber]

1. Chaos Theory
2. Double Agent (xbox1) (I like the similaritys in gameplay. Feels like an Extension of CT)
3. Splinter Cell SAR
4. Pandora Tommorrow
5. Double Agent (360)

[Deltaslavik]

Have Ubisoft decided anything about voicing Sam Fisher? I mean Michael Ironside, will he voice Sam?

[SolidSage]

How much less work is it for the team to be able to record Erik visually and audibly at the same time than mo-cap Erik mouthing the words, then bring MI in later, do the voice over, and re do it probably, then enlist graphical tech to match MI words to Erik's mouth? And then struggle with the fact that the voicing doesn't sync perfectly with the body movements or the exertion that is displayed.
I think we will get a better game if the time and resources are put into the gameplay rather than devoting them to using several actors to portray one character. I like the iconic voice but I always liked the game play best, and as I said, a LOT of voices could have said those early lines for Sam and it would have still been awesome. Credit to the script writers.

I understand the dissapointment, I really do, MI has been with SC forever. But this day was bound to come at some point. I know the argument is "retire ironside, retire Sam", but sam is an Icon. he personifies SC. I know a lot of you would say the same about MI, but that really does discount all the work put into Sam by others. A lot of folks are responsible for Sam being Sam. I doubt we would all love MI's work so much if the script writer hadn't created so many good lines for him to read, know what I mean?

We all knew something was coming. I don't think any of us expected it to be this exactly but to be honest I am excited. If they have the courage to take this risk so that Sam can continue to be the face of SC, well who knows, maybe we will get to KEEP Sam somehow.
I know we all want the linear progression to continue, but it's not usually until AFTER something has gone that we realize we don't like it, and WISH there was some way we could have avoided it.
THAT is what the world of gaming can give us, we don't HAVE to lose, we CAN keep Sam. :)

I'm sure at some point there would have to be an acknowledgement that "Okay, this IS a reboot" in order to rebirth Sam, we can't get over the age thing. But Sam's story has been so full and well told, and like someone said, he's been retiring since the first game!
Who wouldn't love to play a younger Sam, starting as a Cell at a younger age than SAR?

This is what I love about video games, the aren't that many rules, we aren't confined by the restrictions of true life. Why would we forego that freedom. Lots of things you care about are going to pass from your lives as time marches on, don't give any up VOLUNTARILY. Fight to keep what you can. :)

[bluewolf042000]

I don't buy any of their arguments. Sure the physicality in the role I understand. But they STILL have to animate and synch Erik's voice too, since they're using Sam Fisher's face. Plus, for all their talk of more believable expressions, the cutscenes in the demo are nothing out of this world. Even with Erik's mocap the voice still doesn't synch with Fisher's mouth. Go ahead check it out.


I LOVE the work they've done so far, don't get me wrong. I just wish they would be more honest and upfront with us, we deserve that much. Maybe they don't wanna pay MI.....maybe he doesn't wanna do the voice anymore, any of those I'll understand. Well as long as the writing and dialogue are sharp this time, I'll bite the bullet.

[sameer_monier]

I don't buy any of their arguments. Sure the physicality in the role I understand. But they STILL have to animate and synch Erik's voice too, since they're using Sam Fisher's face. Plus, for all their talk of more believable expressions, the cutscenes in the demo are nothing out of this world. Even with Erik's mocap the voice still doesn't synch with Fisher's mouth. Go ahead check it out.


I LOVE the work they'e done so far, don't get me wrong. I just wish they would be more honest and upfront with us, we deserve that much. Maybe they don't wanna pay MI.....maybe he doesn't wanna do the voice anymore, any of those I'll understand. We'll as long as the writing and dialogue are sharp this time, I'll bite the bullet.
Watch the video in this Thread (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/682788-New-Joystiq-Interview).
I believe Ubisoft decided to make Sam Fisher an Iconic Character, meaning Sam Fisher is Splinter Cell, so we will be seeing Sam again in SC7, probably even in SC8&9, that's why they changed the voice, cause sooner or later they will have to, of course the Mo-cap is also part of the reason.

[DeafAtheist]

Very well said Sage. Totally agree with you. Even though I'm deaf I can appreciate the fans' feelings on Ironside's voice. Ironside is a great actor. I've enjoyed many of his roles in film and TV since the 80's. And when I learned that he was Sam's voice I approved even though I could not hear it. I can just imagine how good a fit he is for Sam based on his performances in other film and TV productions.

That being said it does sadden me that so many fans are giving Michael Ironside complete credit for Sam's character. Sam really is a the collective work of a lot of people. I read an interview about Conviction a couple years ago with Maxime Beland and he was describing how how much difficulty the team went through trying to create Sam for Conviction and how passionate the whole team was about the process. Sam is very important to Ubisoft. Just as important as he is to the fans, if not more so. Fans unfairly give Maxime Beland a difficult time and criticize his role in reshaping the franchise but they dismiss the facts that Beland is why we even had light and shadow stealth, gadgets, and goggles at all in Conviction. He is also responsible for bringing Michael Ironside back to the project he had originally declined to work on.

So yeah. No doubt Michael Ironside makes a great voice actor, but Sam is much more than just his voice and the rest of the team at Ubisoft deserves their share of the credit for Sam.

Kinda reminds me of Batman Arkham City... The original voice for Harley Quinn was recast for Arkham City and fans were disappointed but they gave the new girl a chance and far as I know they are happy with her although they miss Arleen Sorkin's voice. Apparently Mark Hamill has decided he won't voice the Joker anymore after Arkham City either. Sorkin has been voicing Harley Quin in more than just the Arkham series video games. She started with Batman: The Animated Series. The character was created by Paul Dini who actually based the character on Arleen Sorkin's personality and asked her to voice the part. Didn't see Arkham Asylum fans raving not to buy Arkham City without Arleen Sorkin's voice. True that Harley Quinn is a supporting character and not the main character, but Arleen Sorkin is every bit as important to the Batman franchise as Michael Ironside is to Splinter Cell.

[mateus99]

i agree with that sage said 100%.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

They could easily have MI watch the cutscenes and do the dialogue. Then the devs match it. Having MI watch the cutscenes would help increase the chances that he wouldn't have to re-record the lines. They only have to worry about cutscenes and then the rest of dialogue such as during gameplay would be whatever because you don't focus n Sam's face...I doubt that will be performance capture since the player will be doing whatever at the time.

As it is, I care more about gameplay than the voice. As I've said before -- I didn't get the first game for MI, I got it for the unique gameplay. MI was a very welcome and pleasant surprise. Am I super sad that it's not MI? Was I hoping the gameplay voice was a placeholder? Of course. The only thing I'm upset about is that other than a word here and there...he doesn't sound gruff at all! I don't need him to sound exactly like Michael Ironside but his voice is so...steady and not exactly soft spoken but listen to when he talks to Grim during the gameplay...it just sounds like a mixture between boredom, determination, but no roughness. Do you get what I'm saying? Nothing against Eric, but I wish they found someone who's got a rougher voice. That is all. At least keep the whole "rough exterior and voice" of MI even if it's not MI. They shouldn't force it either to sound like MI -- just any kind of rough voice will do. *shrug* MAybe I'm wrong but that was my brother's first reaction as well -- "His voice isn't even rough!"

[EmmaJordan]

They could easily have MI watch the cutscenes and do the dialogue. Then the devs match it. Having MI watch the cutscenes would help increase the chances that he wouldn't have to re-record the lines. They only have to worry about cutscenes and then the rest of dialogue such as during gameplay would be whatever because you don't focus n Sam's face...I doubt that will be performance capture since the player will be doing whatever at the time.

As it is, I care more about gameplay than the voice. As I've said before -- I didn't get the first game for MI, I got it for the unique gameplay. MI was a very welcome and pleasant surprise. Am I super sad that it's not MI? Was I hoping the gameplay voice was a placeholder? Of course. The only thing I'm upset about is that other than a word here and there...he doesn't sound gruff at all! I don't need him to sound exactly like Michael Ironside but his voice is so...steady and not exactly soft spoken but listen to when he talks to Grim during the gameplay...it just sounds like a mixture between boredom, determination, but no roughness. Do you get what I'm saying? Nothing against Eric, but I wish they found someone who's got a rougher voice. That is all. At least keep the whole "rough exterior and voice" of MI even if it's not MI. They shouldn't force it either to sound like MI -- just any kind of rough voice will do. *shrug* MAybe I'm wrong but that was my brother's first reaction as well -- "His voice isn't even rough!"

Totally agree with much you said.

I am more concerned with gameplay than Ironside's disappearance. However, I just think the reason they give - so you can synch up the CGI with voice for the cut scenes - is such a dumb reason to get rid of an iconic voice. Its a cut scene guys. Has anyone here been that horrified that a character's mouth doesn't always exactly synch up with the voice acting? Who cares. Just think it was totally a dumb move move by a company that doesn't understand its fans.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Yeah...by what they keep saying is that the stealth fans will really love some features so I'm waiting to see more.\ so hopefully that's true. I still reserve judgement but I am looking forward to see more so hopefully they don't disappoint.

[EmmaJordan]

Yeah...by what they keep saying is that the stealth fans will really love some features so I'm waiting to see more.\ so hopefully that's true. I still reserve judgement but I am looking forward to see more so hopefully they don't disappoint.

After E3, the forums and Facebook erupted with negative feedback (an avalanche really) from fans (and not merely the adoring crowd of gaming journalists). Ubisoft - finally- has begun to say the right things. I do give them credit for doing now what they failed so horribly at during Conviction - relating to its fans.

We'll see. I am hopeful after Beland's interview regarding the "3 approaches".

If they don't screw up Spy v. Mercenary with use of Mark and Execute (a/k/a the cheat button in my house), then perhaps all can be forgiven.... :)

[sameer_monier]

After E3, the forums and Facebook erupted with negative feedback (an avalanche really) from fans (and not merely the adoring crowd of gaming journalists). Ubisoft - finally- has begun to say the right things. I do give them credit for doing now what they failed so horribly at during Conviction - relating to its fans.

We'll see. I am hopeful after Beland's interview regarding the "3 approaches".

If they don't screw up Spy v. Mercenary with use of Mark and Execute (a/k/a the cheat button in my house), then perhaps all can be forgiven.... :)
I also saw some real positive comments, on youtube, game sites, and here on the forum.

My point is, it isn't bit** black, the fans just can't wait till the developers show Stealth, the same exactly happened with Hitman Absolution, and later on IO showed extensive stealth options, so patience is key.

[SPROGGY]

Hang on a second, Camber...

You're quoting me, but not referencing the initial post - which stated that Ubisoft was cowardly for veering away from Ironside.
I was suggesting that it would have been cowardly to stick with the status quo, instead of pushing the gameplay forward.

I don't pretend to know exactly what you want.
...but I have a pretty darn good idea as to what the consensus on the forum wants - because I want it too.

I want this game to kick ***. I want this game to have lots of stealth.

...I know it has both in spades... but we can't show it yet, because it's simply not ready.
Hence the "whether you know it or not."

Let's not go thinking that I'm covering this with broad strokes on purpose.
This means a lot to me.

Making you all happy is important to me... but most important is making an incredible Splinter Cell game.

Please understand the context before you accuse me of being arrogant and rude.

The effort you have put into making sure that we understand where you are coming from is more effort than has been put forth by any SC ComDev that i can ever remember. And Ive been here a loooong time! The fact that you so clearly want our approval and are willing to listen to our concerns and ideas is extremely comforting. Based on what Ive seen, and more importantly what ive heard from you, Im confident that this will be the best SC title yet. I preordered yesterday:cool:. Thank you for making yourself available to us. It is sincerely appreciated

[UbiZack]

The effort you have put into making sure that we understand where you are coming from is more effort than has been put forth by any SC ComDev that i can ever remember. And Ive been here a loooong time! The fact that you so clearly want our approval and are willing to listen to our concerns and ideas is extremely comforting. Based on what Ive seen, and more importantly what ive heard from you, Im confident that this will be the best SC title yet. I preordered yesterday:cool:. Thank you for making yourself available to us. It is sincerely appreciated
My pleasure!
I'm passionate about this game... and I just know that once we've put everything out there and you guys can get your hands on it yourselves, you're going to love it.

...just stay with us until then.

Then the game will speak for itself!

[nster81]

My pleasure!
I'm passionate about this game... and I just know that once we've put everything out there and you guys can get your hands on it yourselves, you're going to love it.

...just stay with us until then.

Then the game will speak for itself!
I hope that would mean a demo.

[Deltaslavik]

If there something we have to wait in near future? Something like a video gameplay (new) or demo which will show us the three types of playing ( ghost, panthers and action-style)?

[UbiZack]

I hope that would mean a demo.

I had a dream about it last night...
I'm having a meeting about it shortly.

As soon as the animations are ready to do it justice, the demo will be in front of your eyes to see.

---
Also, Nster... I replied to your blog post, but didn't see a response from you.
Did you hit me back?

[DeafAtheist]

I hope that would mean a demo.

What he sad. I think I spent more time playing the Conviction demo than any other demo ever. According to my stats on Raptr I have spent a total of 64 hours playing the Conviction demo. I would really love to have another demo to play for Blacklist.

[nster81]

I had a dream about it last night...
I'm having a meeting about it shortly.

As soon as the animations are ready to do it justice, the demo will be in front of your eyes to see.
That's good news.


Also, Nster... I replied to your blog post, but didn't see a response from you.
Did you hit me back?
Whereabouts? On here or the actual post?

[SPROGGY]

Any additional footage would amount to a wet dream at this point. You guys had me drooling at E3 and Ive still got a year to wait. I dont know what Im going to do with myself...

[Deltaslavik]

Can not wait to see the demo :)

[UbiZack]

That's good news.


Whereabouts? On here or the actual post?

...it was somewhere on the forum. I tried to track it down, but got lost in the plethora of posts.
Basically, I said that I read it and agreed with a lot... and a lot of your suggestions (I couldn't specific which, for obvious reasons) are already in the works.

As for the controller layout, I didn't bother going into that :) ...just being honest.

==
Also... as for the demo... I'm not talking about releasing a PLAYABLE demo, peoples.
It would be me doing a walkthrough demoing the stealth elements.

...that's also going to require some practice on this end, so I can do the game justice, as well.

[DeafAtheist]

Totally agree with much you said.

I am more concerned with gameplay than Ironside's disappearance. However, I just think the reason they give - so you can synch up the CGI with voice for the cut scenes - is such a dumb reason to get rid of an iconic voice. Its a cut scene guys. Has anyone here been that horrified that a character's mouth doesn't always exactly synch up with the voice acting? Who cares. Just think it was totally a dumb move move by a company that doesn't understand its fans.

It's not just matching voice with mouth movements but realistic sound effects... like for example Sam being short of breath after bursting though a door and rushing in to dispatch a group of enemies. How would they make that realistic with Michael Ironside voicing over the MOCAP, have him run a couple laps around the studio before delivering lines to that effect?


If they don't screw up Spy v. Mercenary with use of Mark and Execute (a/k/a the cheat button in my house), then perhaps all can be forgiven.... :)

Why would M&E be put in a competitive mode? It wasn't possible to use M&E on other human players when playing Face Off in Conviction so I don't see why they would put it in there for SvM in Blacklist either.

[Deltaslavik]

So can you tell us when it will be ready? ( i'm sorry, i just cant wait :) )

[sameer_monier]

...it was somewhere on the forum. I tried to track it down, but got lost in the plethora of posts.
Basically, I said that I read it and agreed with a lot... and a lot of your suggestions (I couldn't specific which, for obvious reasons) are already in the works.

As for the controller layout, I didn't bother going into that :) ...just being honest.

==
Also... as for the demo... I'm not talking about releasing a PLAYABLE demo, peoples.
It would be me doing a walkthrough demoing the stealth elements.

...that's also going to require some practice on this end, so I can do the game justice, as well.
ooooooooooooh Zack is going stealthy on us. I or for a matter of fact WE can't wait.

[nster81]

...it was somewhere on the forum. I tried to track it down, but got lost in the plethora of posts.
Basically, I said that I read it and agreed with a lot... and a lot of your suggestions (I couldn't specific which, for obvious reasons) are already in the works.

As for the controller layout, I didn't bother going into that :) ...just being honest.
I did the button portion because before, Max went into how accessibility needed to be taken into accoubt. I disagreed with that. I do see a few things that he did take into account, but I do not see any ligh/shadow mechanics unfortunately.

[DeafAtheist]

Also... as for the demo... I'm not talking about releasing a PLAYABLE demo, peoples.
It would be me doing a walkthrough demoing the stealth elements.

Sure, YOU get to play a demo but we're SOL. :-P

We'd be happy with a walkthrough demo from you or anyone else at Ubisoft that shows stealth but it would definitely be a lot better if we could get our hands on a playable demo as well at least a few weeks to a month in advance of the game's release just so we can get a feel for it ourselves. I spent 64 hours playing the Conviction demo. Double Agent had both a single player and multiplayer demo for it. I'd be satisfied with just a single player demo personally.

[sameer_monier]

I will share my opinion, first I was sad that Ironside is gone, still am, but Eric is kinda making a new beginning, Ubisoft is turning Sam Fisher into an icon, I can't say that I really mind that, I am too attached to him.

It makes me think since Mark Hamill won't be the voice of The Joker will we not see the joker ever again ?!, hardly, Rocksteady Batman is believed to be a Trilogy, but I am pretty sure we will see another Batman game in the next 10 years, it will have the joker too, probably with a different voice, cause he is an icon, even in the movies we got Heath Ledger as The Joker, I loved him so much, he became my fav. Joker, now that he is gone and Nolan's Batman movie is coming to an end, I am sure we will see another movie in 10 years too, and it may have a new Joker, cause people still want Batman and Joker to be around.

Ironside is the voice of Sam Fisher, I know that too well, I love him, I love his rough deep dark voice, I will miss him, but Eric will sure to grow on me, since it marks the beginning of a new story for Sam, Sam will probably be around for the next 10 years, I am not sure Ironside will want to be part of it in the next 10 years, so what would Ubi do when half of it's fan base want Sam Fisher in the field ?!, I believe the choice to introduce Eric with the new beginning was a good move, sooner or later they would have done it anyway.

It also reminds me of Legacy of Kain game, the voice of the Elder God died, and we are left with no new game for a very long time now, and we fear that SE/Edios may reboot LoK without giving it a proper ending, the loss of a major voice actor more or less ruined the whole series (along other things).

The same fuss happened with Hitman Absolution, but Shobhit said something really cool, Gameplay comes first, we are glad Agent 47 / Sam Fisher is back, but also just cause the voice is different, it won't stop us from getting the game and enjoying the hell out of it, we are capable of moving on.

I myself find that I am attached too much to Sam Fisher, I always want more and more of him, people wanted SCC to be the ending to him, but ever since I finished SCC I wanted Sam to be back for one final mission in his Stealth Suit, may dream came true and he is back, I was ready to move on to a new character in SC7, but now that I saw Sam Fisher again I am not really sure, especially that SCB promises alot, I don't know, so yeah big part of me still want Sam Fisher.

I want a remake of every old SC title, the Legacy titles SAR, PT, & CT, true remakes with great improvements like Resident Evil Remake was to RE1, but it seems this may be hard to get, maybe on next gen, but until then I would rather have more Sam Fisher.

That is what I believe, more or less.

[UbiZack]

Sure, YOU get to play a demo but we're SOL. :-P

We'd be happy with a walkthrough demo from you or anyone else at Ubisoft that shows stealth but it would definitely be a lot better if we could get our hands on a playable demo as well at least a few weeks to a month in advance of the game's release just so we can get a feel for it ourselves. I spent 64 hours playing the Conviction demo. Double Agent had both a single player and multiplayer demo for it. I'd be satisfied with just a single player demo personally.

Ohh... if you're talking about a pre-launch demo, well... that's a bit different.
I'm not even sure how that goes down... but I'm hope you'll get something, too!

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Yeah if anything can be done about a pre-launch demo -- I'd love to play it.

[Jazz117Volkov]

@ nster81

I imagine this is the response from Zack that he mentioned.
(in the B thread?) (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/682124-B?p=8373113&viewfull=1#post8373113)


That was a really enjoyable, well thought out, read.
I can't specify which ones (we've only just announced)... but I CAN say that a lot of your requests have already been looked after. http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20120113.419/images/smilies/smile.png

You're going to make Max smile with this one.

edit: that was in response to nster81's post.

[Bill-E-Bob]

It makes me think since Mark Hamill won't be the voice of The Joker will we not see the joker ever again ?!, hardly, Rocksteady Batman is believed to be a Trilogy, but I am pretty sure we will see another Batman game in the next 10 years, it will have the joker too, probably with a different voice, cause he is an icon

Did you even play Arkham City? You know what happens to the Joker right?

[DeafAtheist]

Did you even play Arkham City? You know what happens to the Joker right?

It was probably another double. But even so his point wasn't necessarily that the Joker would return in the next Rocksteady Batman game but that he would probably return at some point in the future in another game whether it's Rocksteady or not, but Mark Hamill will most likely not reprise his role voicing him.

[newhenpal]

Didn't see Arkham Asylum fans raving not to buy Arkham City without Arleen Sorkin's voice.That's because they got a talented voice actress, Tara Strong, to successfully mimic Arleen Sorkin. Johnson isn't even attempting to make himself sound gruff, let alone like Michael Ironside, so this is in no way comparable to what happened with Harley in the Arkham series.I too value gameplay over cutscenes, but *the developers sure don't seem to. Conviction was filled to the brim with a 'cinematic' cues far, far more than previous games. Like many AAA games these days, Ubisoft is far too caught up in delivering a cinematic experience. The fact that they are even using this motion capture technology pretty much says that their priorities are still split between actual gameplay and bringing cinematic techniques onto the table. So enough beating around the bush and just have Ironside lend his superior voice in dubbing Johnson over. If they can't get Ironside for whatever reason, then just say it and you'll get less grief from people.

[Bill-E-Bob]

That's because they got a talented voice actress, Tara Strong, to successfully mimic Arleen Sorkin. Johnson isn't even attempting to make himself sound gruff, let alone like Michael Ironside, so this is in no way comparable to what happened with Harley in the Arkham series.I too value gameplay over cutscenes, but *the developers sure don't seem to. Conviction was filled to the brim with a 'cinematic' cues far, far more than previous games. Like many AAA games these days, Ubisoft is far too caught up in delivering a cinematic experience. The fact that they are even using this motion capture technology pretty much says that their priorities are still split between actual gameplay and bringing cinematic techniques onto the table. So enough beating around the bush and just have Ironside lend his superior voice in dubbing Johnson over. If they can't get Ironside for whatever reason, then just say it and you'll get less grief from people.

This.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Yeah...at least the actress for Harley did a good job at sounding like Harley. The Batman cartoon did the same thing. No Sorkin but they kept the same vibe. Just like Batman should never be soft spoken -- Sam Fisher shouldn't be either. Does he have to sound exactly like Ironside? No -- but keep the same vibe and tone at least!

[DeafAtheist]

We only saw a single gameplay demo so far where Johnson had all of what? 3 lines? Probably not even the final product. While Michael Ironside may not be doing the voicing but apparently he is there coaching Eric. Take the scene that opened up the Conviction pre-release demo that we all played where Tom Reed was talking to the dude in the ponytail. That scene was never in the full game nor was the ending scene. When you compare the Conviction demo with the actual gameplay in the full game of the Michigan Avenue Reservoir mission they are very different. Different enemy placement... etc. So my point is I think people are judging Eric too pre-maturely on one demo in which he didn't even speak very much.

No one even heard any of Tara Strong's voicing of Harley Quinn at all when it was announced that Sorkin was not reprising her role in Arkham City. Yet there was no crowd of fans outside of Rocksteady with torches and pitchforks as I imagine there to be outside of Ubisoft regarding Ironside's departure.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I'm super mad that Ironside is gone but it IS just a voice after all. The gameplay is the single most important aspect of a game, then story, then graphics, then acting. IMO of course.

[Bill-E-Bob]

I'm super mad that Ironside is gone but it IS just a voice after all. The gameplay is the single most important aspect of a game, then story, then graphics, then acting. IMO of course.

People who say that they're upset but it IS just a voice, just gives Ubisoft the impression that they can get away with making this bulls*** change. It's not "just a voice", it's Sam Fisher's voice. And this crap that Beland is spewing now that Sam Fisher is ageless and they're trying to make him an icon is a total joke. Fisher is already an icon. He's been an icon for a decade. Changing his voice, appearance and whole personality isn't how you "make an icon", it's how you disgrace an icon.

[CamberGreber]

...it was somewhere on the forum. I tried to track it down, but got lost in the plethora of posts.
Basically, I said that I read it and agreed with a lot... and a lot of your suggestions (I couldn't specific which, for obvious reasons) are already in the works.

As for the controller layout, I didn't bother going into that :) ...just being honest.

==
Also... as for the demo... I'm not talking about releasing a PLAYABLE demo, peoples.
It would be me doing a walkthrough demoing the stealth elements.

...that's also going to require some practice on this end, so I can do the game justice, as well.

Can't wait to see the walkthrough. Hope youve been brushing up on you Zack Fisher. :)

[newhenpal]

No one even heard any of Tara Strong's voicing of Harley Quinn at all when it was announced that Sorkin was not reprising her role in Arkham City. Yet there was no crowd of fans outside of Rocksteady with torches and pitchforks as I imagine there to be outside of Ubisoft regarding Ironside's departure.Once again, no comparison can be made between the transitions from Sorkin to Strong in Arkham City and Ironside to Johnson in Blacklist. In addition to being known for her range, Tara Strong had already had experience in "Diniverse" Batman works. Like you said, no one had yet heard of her performance as Harley, who is not the main character, so people reasonably gave her the benefit of the doubt.Johnson is an unknown actor who immediately showed the fanbase that he is a completely inappropriate fit for the character both because of his looks and his voice at E3. There is no reason to play the "wait and see" game for his voice. Why should we contemplate the possibility that Ubisoft would inexplicably have Johnson sound different in the E3 trailers from how he will in the final game. May as well ask that people not pre-maturely declare carrying bodies to be back coz, hey, we only saw an on-screen prompt for that very briefly.Oh sure, now there might be a chance that Johnson will attempt to sound like Ironside (or at least like a grizzled soldier) because of all the backlash they've been receiving.

[DeafAtheist]

People who say that they're upset but it IS just a voice, just gives Ubisoft the impression that they can get away with making this bulls*** change. It's not "just a voice", it's Sam Fisher's voice. And this crap that Beland is spewing now that Sam Fisher is ageless and they're trying to make him an icon is a total joke. Fisher is already an icon. He's been an icon for a decade. Changing his voice, appearance and whole personality isn't how you "make an icon", it's how you disgrace an icon.

So Daniel Craig is a disgrace to Sean Connery's Bond?

Sam Fisher's appearance has changed in EVERY single game. He does not look the same in any Splinter Cell game. He even looks different in the CGI trailers than he does in the games that the CGI trailers advertise!

An icon in an artistic medium lives on well past any actor that plays their part. If Sam Fisher was retired and Eric Johnson was playing some new rookie Splinter Cell agent 10 years from now Sam Fisher will be forgotten by all but those who have played the games out so far.

Ask someone in their 20's today "Who is James Bond"? The answer will most likely be either Daniel Craig or Pierce Brosnan. Ask someone in their 60's who James Bond is and they will say "Sean Connery". If James Bond retired when Connery did we would not have James Bond movies to enjoy today. If Superman was retired with George Reeves in the 30's we never would have had Christopher Reeve's Superman in the 80's or Dean Cain's Superman in the 90's or Tom Welling's Smallville Superman that recently finished a 10 year run.

An icon is an icon because it quite simply lasts forever. That's what makes an icon an icon. It is selfish of us to want Sam to retire and never be featured again just because the actor that originated the role is no longer playing it. It is selfish of us to rob future generations of such an amazing character and assume that only 1 actor is capable of performing the role.

Personally I don't think Eric Johnson is the best choice to replace Michael Ironside, but I don't believe that a character should be retired just because an actor that originated the role is no longer reprising that role. That's ridiculous.

[DeafAtheist]

Once again, no comparison can be made between the transitions from Sorkin to Strong in Arkham City and Ironside to Johnson in Blacklist. In addition to being known for her range, Tara Strong had already had experience in "Diniverse" Batman works. Like you said, no one had yet heard of her performance as Harley, who is not the main character, so people reasonably gave her the benefit of the doubt.Johnson is an unknown actor who immediately showed the fanbase that he is a completely inappropriate fit for the character both because of his looks and his voice at E3. There is no reason to play the "wait and see" game for his voice. Why should we contemplate the possibility that Ubisoft would inexplicably have Johnson sound different in the E3 trailers from how he will in the final game. May as well ask that people not pre-maturely declare carrying bodies to be back coz, hey, we only saw an on-screen prompt for that very briefly.Oh sure, now there might be a chance that Johnson will attempt to sound like Ironside (or at least like a grizzled soldier) because of all the backlash they've been receiving.

Tara Strong voiced Batgirl, Barbara Gordon, and Vicki Vale in previous Batman cast roles before replacing Sorkin in Arkham City as Harley Quinn. She has also done a lot of other voice work. So yes, admittedly she is a better fit for Harley Quinn than Eric Johnson is for Sam Fisher. I agree that Eric Johnson isn't the best choice to go with. I mentioned Max Martini as a much better option in another thread on here. I too am skeptical of Ubisoft's choice but I do support Ubisoft's decision change actors in general. simply because I don't believe that Sam should have to retire just because Michael Ironside isn't voicing him anymore.

Why might Johnson sound different in the full game than he did in the E3 demo? Because Zack said that they really don't have a whole lot to show at this point and it took a lot of work just to get the E3 demo playable in time for E3. So the E3 demo is like a dress rehearsal... it's not Opening Night. They may have been less concerned with how Eric Johnson sounded in his 3 lines in the demo than they will in the full game. Their priority was mainly to show off Blacklist's gameplay features. So that is really not the same thing as carrying bodies. Carrying bodies is a gameplay mechanic that would be hard coded into the game Eric Johnson is capable of changing his voice. Even performance capture can be more easily re-recorded than re-coding an entire game in order to add moving bodies.

So would that be a bad thing that Eric Johnson improves the sound of his voice in the full game because fans don't like it in the E3 demo? Isn't that what we want from Ubisoft to listen to our concerns and make changes that improve the game?

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

lol calm down Bill-E-Bob. It's just a voice. Did YOU get the game for a voice? If so, that is not only very shallow but also -- just...why? I'm upset at the voice, I wish they'd make Sam the new Lambert -- Sambert, and get a new character. Or at the very least, get a guy who keeps the same sound of rough, no nonsense, little patience Fisher that Ironside was. It's like how Bond can change actors multiple times but he's always a suave womanizer with a pension for sleeping with the enemy and saving the world. If they made him NOT a womanizer...well then THAT is not Bond.

The thing about Sam is that, yes, Ironside will always be the definitive version of Sam Fisher and will never be beat. It's like how Christopher Reeve is the ultimate version of Superman or Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill are the definitive versions of Batman and Joker respectively....does that mean I think Christian Bale is not a good Batman or that Heath Ledger sucks and should never have been Joker? Did I scream and rage for them to dub over Ledger's lines with Hamill? No, because it's one voice. Iconic, yes. Ireeplaceable? No. He will always be THE Sam Fisher, but Connery will always be THE Bond in my eyes. But I think Craig is amazing and Brosnan was great as well. Timothy Dalton is disliked by many but is amazing as well. Roger Moore is okay and George Lazenby is a dork. Does that mean James Bond SUCKS...no. You're being irrational and unreasonable. Is their reasoning BS? Possibly. Does it really matter as long as the stealth aspects of the series are brought back again? No.

Again, I ask -- was Ironside the reason you bought the game? No? Then shut up. You bought the game because of what it looked like not because of a voice. I'm not trying to be rude but you called me out and for such a silly thing when it comes to the big scheme of things when you think about it being a game. It's kind of like Batman Beyond. We see Terry Mc******ss become the new Batman under the tutelage of an elderly Bruce Wayne. But Batman will never actually age in real time. There will be one off stories here and there where it's in the future from whenever the comic or story is made and show Bruce as no longer Batman or his final adventure or someone becoming the new Batman, but he will always be reinvented for the new generations by keeping the same fundamental tenants to his character but updating him for a new time AS Bruce Wayne. He was introduced in the 30s and thus battled mobsters who drove 30s cars...but now it's modern times. HEY! BATMAN HASN'T AGED! That's stupid!He needs to retire. In the future, Bruce Wayne will have watched his parents gunned down in an alley by some cyber-mugger who's either never caught or is caught and is named Joe Chill, he will then travel the world learning different martial arts, chemisty, detective work, etc. and he will return to Gotham City and he will fight crime -- he will have to contend with flying cars, laser guns, etc. whatever is in our future...he will fight. If our society was to integrate with some aliens and the character of Batman isnt lost to time -- he will live in Gotham city and fight crime, whether its human thugs or alien, but he will always be the same character for a different generation.

I know Splinter Cell has always had realism to it, up until Conviction but even if they go back to the hyper realistic days, they can keep him immortal. It's not that it needs to be realistic in its portrayal of Sam's aging but rather the waythe game plays, the way the enemies think and act, how you fight, etc.It's more about realism in what you DO in my opinion rather than realism in the chronology.

So please...stop raging over such a, in the scheme of things, trivial issue and focus on the gameplay -- will it be classic gameplay or not? etc.
Please grow up.

P.S. I apologize if this was a biting rebuttal but I took offense to your comment.

[newhenpal]

They also didn't have much to show a week after Conviction was unveiled. That didn't stop the voice actors from delivering decent performances in the pre-rendered video at E3 2009, which was indicative of their performances in the final game.

Some more things:

-E3 is an important event. Its purpose is to grab the attention of gaming audiences as well as showcase an accurate representation of the final game. So why oh why would Ubisoft decide, after all the hard work it took to make a gameplay and pre-rendered trailer, making them look as cinematic like all those Hollywood blockbusters, to suddenly skimp out on the voice of the main character, especially when the actor only has a few lines to read.

-Unless Johnson has some impressive voice acting skills no one knows about, it won't matter how phoned in his performance in the E3 trailers may have been--he still won't sound the part.

-The whole point of that comparison to body carrying was to highlight how fatuous it is to act unsure about something clearly present in a meticulously made gameplay trailer. We're not talking about leaked audio of improvisation or a botched line of dialog here.



I get that you want to (and probably will) like this game, but I simply feel that you're giving them the benefit of the doubt in an area where they haven't shown any reason to receive such faith.

[SolidSage]

@Newhenpal
I agree that Johnson won't sound the part. Although there was one old skool Fishery bit with Jadeed that I really liked.
I don't think he has to, I get it now. It's NOT old Sam, it's NEW Sam. Max even says something similar in an interview, along the lines of "he's not an aging Sam, he's the mature character". His life and career evolve but it sounds like Sam himself has become immortal.

That's the argument right there, there are those who don't want to accept that the original Splinter Cell is gone, but that Sam was from another time. Now we have a new version that gives us Sam on different missions with ever changing story threads.

Sam's personal history is still intact, he is still the Sam Fisher who was in SAR, PT, CT, DA, and C. But there was a point where he, the character design, became more than just the character in the first.....well.....it's up to each fan where they draw the line. I would say CT was the last I saw of MY original Sam Fisher. C felt like a more real version of him to me, real problems, real emotions, real pain.
Blacklist Sam feels even newer and I am excited. His prowess, his more youthful/better look, his fresh gear and less reason to get wimpy about his personal life. Now he only has to worry about himself and his team, and he gets to go be awesome for a good reason. I can't wait! The stuff I saw in the demo speaks for itself. I would definately take the Panther first, then go looking for other methods. That's just me. I respect your love of Legacy, they were great.


As far as the development team, they earned my faith from R6V and SCC. I think I read that Max was also involved in AC, and Patrick worked on Far Cry? I should check those things before I talk about them. Anyway, people on this team have been making some of my favorite games for a good spell now. I have every reason to have faith in them. I have been wrong on occasion, I'd hate for now to be one of those times. ;)

[J CROS10]

First of all i was shocked when i saw a Community Developer from Ubisoft posting and actually responding to people on these forums, don't take me lightly when i say this.

But, let me get to my reason for posting;

I have a similar back story to just about everyone else who has posted on this thread, I have played all the splinter cells, i enjoyed some of them, i disliked others. I'll go into detail; I picked up Pandora Tomorrow when i was probably 12, and i played the absolute **** out of that game, i played that game just about every single day of my life, i was addicted, i was obsessed. Because of this i was, at one point, ranked in the top 10 in the world. I had a core group of about 6 or 8 people that i always played with or against, 5 of which i still talk to today. I loved that game more than any other game that i have ever played to this date.

Then Chaos Theory came out, and at first i didn't like it. I didn't like the changes that were made. But soon i began to get back to my old ways, i learned the tactics and the maps and i was back in the top 100 again. I played that game the same way i played PT, day in and day out.

Fast forward to Double Agent, i played that game for a month. Sold it. Enough said about that.
Then, Conviction, I absolutely hated that game. I let my friend have my copy after i beat the single player because i was so disgusted with Ubisoft for taking out spies vs mercs and they completely ruined the stealth aspect that gave Splinter Cell its name and unique appeal.
2 of my PT friends and I took to these exact forums and created a petition, where we complained about the game. We stated our disapproval with where the game was going and how much we loved PT and CT. Every attempt we made to post on these forums was deleted by the moderators.

So you must understand when i say that i do not trust any creator of Splinter Cell at this point, Ubisoft seems inclined in taking the franchise in a direction similar to Ghost Recon or Rainbow Six, when the originality of the franchise came from the Stealth Aspect. That aspect set it apart from EVERY other game.

So UbiZack, am i going to compare this game to PT and CT or am i going to be disappointed again and compare this game to the other 2 failures Ubi has most recently produced? Will this game appeal to me, and will it continue to appeal to me after a play it for a month or two? Am i going to be satisfied with the single player AND the multiplayer?

I think i speak for most of the Hardcore and frustrated Splinter Cell fanbase when i say, i want a single player demo like CT had, AND i want a Multiplayer Beta more than a month prior to release. And it better not be legitimate horse**** like Ghost Recon FS's was.

PS: This is what we received in our inbox when we complained about conviction on the forums:::

*Yawn*

Topic Closed

Somehow I doubt that your complaints will be taken seriously.

And now I'll lock this thread too.


Bring something constructive to the forums, or don't bother at all.

Topic Closed.

[SolidSage]

Then, Conviction, I absolutely hated that game. I let my friend have my copy after i beat the single player because i was so disgusted with Ubisoft for taking out spies vs mercs and they completely ruined the stealth aspect that gave Splinter Cell its name and unique appeal.

Wow. Me and you definitley don't have the same taste.


And it better not be legitimate horse**** like Ghost Recon FS's was.

I'm going to play that after I get done here, I think it's a great MP.



I responded because it's only now that I am really starting to believe that some fans truly preferred the restrictive and fairly slow nature of the early code and tech. I just don't get it.
I loved that suff too, but the evolutions have impressed me, I like where it's going. There are things that could be better sure, but I thought there were LOTS of things that could be better about Legacy Clancy titles.

I am really trying to understand this type of perspective. When I look at the games it's just apparent that everything has improved.

I guess the road forked and our minds went different ways. (Legacy vs Legacy+, I mean).

[ImaDoctorJim]

So Daniel Craig is a disgrace to Sean Connery's Bond?

Please. Casino Royale was a reboot. And Daniel Craig is James Bond now because Connery is too old. (And Brosnan too nowadays) James Bond is replaced out of necessity, not to improve motion capture.

I don't like that they changed the voice to enhance a gimmick, but I'm ok with you liking it. Really, I am. Just please ATTEMPT to be rational in your arguments. I would greatly appreciate it. I wouldn't take it from someone who opposed the change either. I saw a guy saying "Cut the crap and just release Chaos Theory 2 with the same gameplay and better graphics.", and he wasn't joking. I almost had a stroke.

[KAIZER_SOSA]

I'm going to be brutally honest here... as much as it pains me to see Ironside go, and without a doubt as scarring as this wound will be - I can deal with it somewhat for the sake of concentrating and accessing the other issues I see with Blacklist as it is presented to us now.

What is the deal with reverting Sam's appearance to look 20 years younger? To compliment Eric Johnson's voice work? To convey the appearance of a "super cool covert agent" to the casual mainstream in an effort to connect to the character? Or both? For Pete's sake would it hurt to put some grey into his facial hair and head? I'm sure at the very least this can be accomplished.

I'm not going to go on about why you guys decided on another voice actor but I will state that Eric Johnson wasn't the best choice, in my opinion. His voice leaves much to be desired, there is too much of a generic tinge to his vocals, besides that he sounds too young. Yet, what is done is done. One can only hope you guys address some concerns that can be slightly altered and not effect the direction of the game design you are so keen to present.

I can't believe Sam's in-game visual portrayal in Blacklist as a man of age that has a young adult daughter. The model in Blacklist needs some dire work at the moment. As such a mere spec on the face of this community I truly hope my concerns are heeded. The in-game model needs work - give me the impression that this is a grown man with an adult daughter and an uncanny amount of years of visually gruff life experience - Not generic Hollywood star "B".

My other concern was of course the elephant in the room and that was stealth... the "Ghost" type of stealth. I addressed this concerned as respectfully as I can to Zak in another thread so I will spare my fingers from repetitive exertion here and simply link (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/682452-The-Paladin?p=8380950&viewfull=1#post8380950) it.

Those are so far my only issues, the blow of losing Ironside was extremely hard but if you guys can rightfully, not lightly enthused, deliver on this two issues then I can maintain a more open mind to the game until further development is shared with us all.

[J CROS10]

Wow. Me and you definitley don't have the same taste.

If i wanted to play a shoot em up, run and gun game then i would pick up any other FPS or TPS title. They are all the same Halo, COD, Medal of Honor, GRFS, Gears of War. Where is the stealth in any of those games, which one of those games even remotely resembles Splinter cell PT or CT, in both SP and MP aspects?

Outside of video games everyone wants to be unique, but all video games want now days is mainstream COD copies to make more money for more COD copies. More games that involve less and less problem solving and more shoot anything that moves styles.

Splinter Cell was unique, it was a brand of its own, and now it is gradually conforming to what is the norm.
And the norm is getting boring.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I wouldnt say all shooters are the same though I will agree that Splinter Cell was way more unique in it's old days (and better) but Halo =/= CoD. WAY different. Half-Life =/= CoD. Etc. While we're at it...Halo =/= Half-Life. Shooters are way different from one another (the good ones) but yes, none were even REMOTELY similar to SC. I miss the old school SC. I'm hoping Blacklist will deliver a more classic feeling game when you go stealthy than conviction and by the way the devs are talking, it sounds like you really can.

[SolidSage]

If i wanted to play a shoot em up, run and gun game then i would pick up any other FPS or TPS title. They are all the same Halo, COD, Medal of Honor, GRFS, Gears of War. Where is the stealth in any of those games, which one of those games even remotely resembles Splinter cell PT or CT, in both SP and MP aspects?

Ghost Recon has stealth aspects in both the SP and MP. It's up to the player to use them. Granted it doesn't let you stealth everything and it does have a bunch of action. The other titles you mentioned don't favor stealth at all, although you can be pretty sneaky in GEARS when you know the maps.
GRFS slightly resembles the concept of SplinterCell, and the Scout really could work for 4E. I don't think any of them really resemble SplinterCell gameplay. Are they supposed to?


Outside of video games everyone wants to be unique, but all video games want now days is mainstream COD copies to make more money for more COD copies. More games that involve less and less problem solving and more shoot anything that moves styles.

I disagree. I do think games resemble each other more these days because studios have had more time to build expanded code. it's only natural to include more tech. Cars incorporate lots of similar features, it's the style and branding that set them apart.
Conviction allows for a great degree of stealth in comparison to a huge percentage of the market. To say it isn't a stealth title is to say you didn't bother to play it as one. It did have action elements, like life.


Splinter Cell was unique, it was a brand of its own, and now it is gradually conforming to what is the norm.
And the norm is getting boring.

Well I get that there are things you miss and that some of the new tech and style isn't up your alley. I don't see conformance though, I see evolution and innovation, and interesting differing looks at SplinterCell. I highly approve of the inclusion of CHOICE in the games, and I actually enjoy the more in depth stories. I don't want to have as much RANGE removed as I felt in GRFS SP though. I really DO want freedom to explore and hang out in the environment.

[J CROS10]

What i mean is, with all the games i mentioned, they all relatively have the same concept. You start, you kill anything in your way, you do your objective, then you're done. Where as in the original Splinter Cell's you start and you have a choice to play like a COD player or play like a Splinter Cell player, to do your objective with the least possible resistance or to destroy everything and everyone, and then to escape, to be extracted or to get to a safe zone. You were actually tasked with using your brain to solve the problems that lay before you, to understand the consequences of any action or wrong move. I don't think i ever had to revert to the last checkpoint in Conviction because i messed up, ever. Conviction didn't give you the option to go stealth in every level, all conviction had on my mind was mark, kill, move on, repeat.

The stealthy play of the single player is what influenced the multiplayer, and that is what i don't want to lose. If you don't understand what i'm talking about then you weren't as big into SvM as the hardcore fans were. If they ruin SvM in this game, then i am done with Ubisoft and Tom Clancy forever.

[SolidSage]

I agree that more of the good FPS' and TPS's are about killing and shooting etc. It's a fun genre.

I think you did have to dig deeper in SCC to get to the super stealth, but again, it does not hurt my feelings that they chose to incorporate some mandatory action elements to move the story along. Co-op had more stealth than SP for me.

I DID have to revert to check points in SCC, still do sometimes so you must be awesome at it. No retries on Russian Embassy Infiltration? Not even one?
M&E was grabbing the spotlight for a lot of the game. It was a cool feature though, and has some nice other uses other than just wiping the AI clean off of the map. I like leaving the AI and trying to merge and pass through their patrol patterns.
Some of the layouts, coupling the AI with the security cameras, can be quite tough to get through undetected and without killing.


I wasn't in to SvM at all to be honest with you. I felt like it forced me to play as a FPS character out of Rainbow6 (but I love Rainbow), and I also felt it had kind of restrictive maps. I mean it was a vent here and there, some overheads, stairs etc. I dunno, it didn't appeal to me as much as I thought it would or should. I realize it has a huge fan base that enjoyed it immensely and really got into a lot of the math type game play of gaining an advantage over a different class and monopolizing on it. Sounds like it was a lot of fun, but I didn't feel it.
Co-Op was the best new feature to me in CT, and then SCC's modes were MASSIVE fun.
I actually always preferred the concept of SvS, and while I enjoyed it somewhat in SCC I do think it was only barely realized. It may have been better with more players, and more variety. I have talked aout this before, but I believe they can achieve a somewhat authentic SvM+SvS by allowing customization of the character assets. Armor would remove climbing ability, player can select FP all the time, different gadgets and weapons available to classes, etc.

Then we could have SvSvMvS or SvM, SvS, SvSvS, MvMvM and so on.

[sameer_monier]

Did you even play Arkham City? You know what happens to the Joker right?
yup played AA & AC, but you are telling me after Rocksteady is done with Batman, we will never see any new Batman game ?!, the Arkham Sage was amazing, we will see more, but with new voices.

It was probably another double. But even so his point wasn't necessarily that the Joker would return in the next Rocksteady Batman game but that he would probably return at some point in the future in another game whether it's Rocksteady or not, but Mark Hamill will most likely not reprise his role voicing him.
I don't think the next Batman will have him, but yeah I totally agree


@Newhenpal
I agree that Johnson won't sound the part. Although there was one old skool Fishery bit with Jadeed that I really liked.
I don't think he has to, I get it now. It's NOT old Sam, it's NEW Sam. Max even says something similar in an interview, along the lines of "he's not an aging Sam, he's the mature character". His life and career evolve but it sounds like Sam himself has become immortal.

That's the argument right there, there are those who don't want to accept that the original Splinter Cell is gone, but that Sam was from another time. Now we have a new version that gives us Sam on different missions with ever changing story threads.

Sam's personal history is still intact, he is still the Sam Fisher who was in SAR, PT, CT, DA, and C. But there was a point where he, the character design, became more than just the character in the first.....well.....it's up to each fan where they draw the line. I would say CT was the last I saw of MY original Sam Fisher. C felt like a more real version of him to me, real problems, real emotions, real pain.
Blacklist Sam feels even newer and I am excited. His prowess, his more youthful/better look, his fresh gear and less reason to get wimpy about his personal life. Now he only has to worry about himself and his team, and he gets to go be awesome for a good reason. I can't wait! The stuff I saw in the demo speaks for itself. I would definately take the Panther first, then go looking for other methods. That's just me. I respect your love of Legacy, they were great.


As far as the development team, they earned my faith from R6V and SCC. I think I read that Max was also involved in AC, and Patrick worked on Far Cry? I should check those things before I talk about them. Anyway, people on this team have been making some of my favorite games for a good spell now. I have every reason to have faith in them. I have been wrong on occasion, I'd hate for now to be one of those times. ;)
100% True


Please. Casino Royale was a reboot. And Daniel Craig is James Bond now because Connery is too old. (And Brosnan too nowadays) James Bond is replaced out of necessity, not to improve motion capture.

I don't like that they changed the voice to enhance a gimmick, but I'm ok with you liking it. Really, I am. Just please ATTEMPT to be rational in your arguments. I would greatly appreciate it. I wouldn't take it from someone who opposed the change either. I saw a guy saying "Cut the crap and just release Chaos Theory 2 with the same gameplay and better graphics.", and he wasn't joking. I almost had a stroke.
Same for Ironside, he is too old to do the motion capture which is the trend nowadays, not to mention since they are making Fisher an icon, Ironside won't be here forever, so when they change him later on fans will still rage all over the place, but changing him now, and marking the new beginning is better.



If i wanted to play a shoot em up, run and gun game then i would pick up any other FPS or TPS title. They are all the same Halo, COD, Medal of Honor, GRFS, Gears of War. Where is the stealth in any of those games, which one of those games even remotely resembles Splinter cell PT or CT, in both SP and MP aspects?

Outside of video games everyone wants to be unique, but all video games want now days is mainstream COD copies to make more money for more COD copies. More games that involve less and less problem solving and more shoot anything that moves styles.

Splinter Cell was unique, it was a brand of its own, and now it is gradually conforming to what is the norm.
And the norm is getting boring.
Most of the fans here played SCC stealthy, using Aggro-Stealth, if you played it as a run n gun then you are not playing it right.
To me SC is still unique, I can't find any game similar, and now SCB is a beast that will combine CT & C, I don't want anything more.

[ImaDoctorJim]

Same for Ironside, he is too old to do the motion capture which is the trend nowadays, not to mention since they are making Fisher an icon, Ironside won't be here forever, so when they change him later on fans will still rage all over the place, but changing him now, and marking the new beginning is better.

I agree with you to an extent. I want to make a note here: I do complain about the voice, and I will continue to, but I'm going to great lengths to not be a hater. In fact, I'm quite excited for Blacklist and I'm trying my best to communicate my issues with the game constructively and without conjecture or hyperbole because I BELIEVE in this game (Unlike Conviction which is a wet bucket of sh*t) and want to see it live up to it's potential.

Now, I understand that Ironside won't be around forever, but the Blacklist devs are euthanizing the Ironside Fisher prematurely, plain and simple. And for the sake of what? Mocap? REALLY? If he were too old to talk, or retired from acting, or any other legitimate excuse really, I'd be a lot more ok with the change. I think giving Eric a new character and letting Ironside play Sam would make a lot of us who have already paid for over $300 for Splinter Cell games happy. But I know that's not going to happen. Ubisoft want Sam Fisher as the headliner because that name attracts more $$$. The kids who would complain about the absence of Sam have more money collectively than the adults who would complain about the bastardization of him. Still, if Ironside is still capable of doing the role, and on set with the cast even, it's a backstab. We've all grown up with Ironside's voice. Hell, I was 14 when SAR came out. Completely unacceptable.

[ImaDoctorJim]

Most of the fans here played SCC stealthy, using Aggro-Stealth, if you played it as a run n gun then you are not playing it right.
To me SC is still unique, I can't find any game similar, and now SCB is a beast that will combine CT & C, I don't want anything more.

Also, I agree with you here 100%. If everything Max is saying is true, Blacklist could be the best Splinter Cell ever gameplay-wise. Yes, there will be kid's toys like M&E, SONAR goggles, air strikes, all the kinds of things that made Conviction sh*t. But, I'm glad those things are in Blacklist. Really I am. Because if they actually bring Stealth back in the way Max is promising they will, us die-hard fans can take care of things like we did in the CT days. So, I can knock people out and leave no trace, and all of the 12-year-olds can call in their airstrikes and blow everyone away... and in the process make tons more money for the franchise. It's kind of brilliant.

Of course, I'm saving the overt praise for after I see some stealth gameplay, but that'll be here soon enough.

[Kerim_]

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Tom-Clancys-Splinter-Cell-Blacklist/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802555308b6

tell me that is a joke.

multiplayer by 2 -10, but what combination?

I hope it is wrong

[sameer_monier]

I agree with you to an extent. I want to make a note here: I do complain about the voice, and I will continue to, but I'm going to great lengths to not be a hater. In fact, I'm quite excited for Blacklist and I'm trying my best to communicate my issues with the game constructively and without conjecture or hyperbole because I BELIEVE in this game (Unlike Conviction which is a wet bucket of sh*t) and want to see it live up to it's potential.
That's the beauty of it, being rational, being constructive, alot of others ?!, not so much.


Now, I understand that Ironside won't be around forever, but the Blacklist devs are euthanizing the Ironside Fisher prematurely, plain and simple. And for the sake of what? Mocap? REALLY? If he were too old to talk, or retired from acting, or any other legitimate excuse really, I'd be a lot more ok with the change. I think giving Eric a new character and letting Ironside play Sam would make a lot of us who have already paid for over $300 for Splinter Cell games happy. But I know that's not going to happen. Ubisoft want Sam Fisher as the headliner because that name attracts more $$$. The kids who would complain about the absence of Sam have more money collectively than the adults who would complain about the bastardization of him. Still, if Ironside is still capable of doing the role, and on set with the cast even, it's a backstab. We've all grown up with Ironside's voice. Hell, I was 14 when SAR came out. Completely unacceptable.
I don't know, you know that Ironside didn't want to do SCC-2007, Belland went into alot to make him return to the game, cause he is a fan fav., As for Mocap let's not blame the developers, no really let's not, I believe (my opinion) that Ubi want to step it's games to be like the other games, hence Mocap, that's why they want someone like Eric, maybe the developers want Ironside to remain the voice of Sam, but Ubi may not want a game without Mocap.

As for the whole new character, some people still want Sam Fisher in the field, that's why somewhere deep in my heart I feel happy about it (even though I was ready for a new character in SC7), there are adults who will complain about the absence of Sam, if he didn't come in SCB I would have complained all day long, cause I didn't feel like SCC was the perfect ending for him (even though I enjoyed it alot), I wanted him back for one final epic mission in his Stealth Suit.

Ironside is passing the torch to someone else, as I said sooner or later Ironside won't be here, while Sam will be, so with a new beginning, making a new voice, a new take on the character, I believe it is the right move, don't get me wrong, as I said before I love Ironside, but I see that this needed to happen if Fisher is to stay around for 10 more years.

[ImaDoctorJim]

As for the whole new character, some people still want Sam Fisher in the field, that's why somewhere deep in my heart I feel happy about it (even though I was ready for a new character in SC7), there are adults who will complain about the absence of Sam, if he didn't come in SCB I would have complained all day long, cause I didn't feel like SCC was the perfect ending for him (even though I enjoyed it alot), I wanted him back for one final epic mission in his Stealth Suit.

Ah, you see that's so interesting because that's exactly the kind of complaint I have about the voice in Blacklist. Conviction WASN'T a good end for Fisher. I guess part of me wants to see the Ironside Fisher I grew up with in the stealth suit and actually BEING stealthy in a next gen game. Guess knowing that I'll never see that makes the change even harder to swallow.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Know what's sad? I knew it would never happen but now it's pretty much confirmed. I wanted one last CLASSIC SC game complete with Ironside and all. A CT2 but really even an SAR2. It's not that I think I'll be disappointed by Blacklist. I'm sure it'll be a fun game on it's own and as a SPLINTER CELL game -- i'm not sure yet...I need more visual proof and not just promises to truly know BUT...I wanted one last hurrah and a good, realistic end that Clancy would be proud of. None of the hollywood/conviction bull to accompany it because for me...the "Sam Fisher I knew" was dead and never returned once he dove into the water in New York after blowing the coast guard boat up. An alternate version of him showed up in Malta but as far as I'm concerned -- that's not even in the same universe as the REAL Sam Fisher. I wanted one last game with him. A final end. And you know what? I will never be able to play Double Agent all the way through again. A mission here and there but seeing the To Be Continued? When it really never was? I can't. Sigh. I'm being overly dramatic I know and if the gameplay gets back on track I will love it but the voice being gone...it really won't be the same. It just dawned on me. I won't rage or anything. And if it feels like SC, that's what matters but there will always be that little bit of me that even if they made it into SCCT2...without Ironside...a little part of me will always think of it as not the same. Does it mean the voice means a no buy? No. I will buy if the gameplay will remind me of the good old days. I have one last outing with the true Sam as far as Ican tell -- the original xbox version of DA and that's it -- and even that ends with a cliffhanger...

Ironside WAS Sam fisher. I will accept playing as Sam Fisher but it really won't be the same. I think I've been kind of...not thinking about it but I've known him as Sam since about 2nd, 3rd grade. SC has been a part of mhy life and not hearing that voice? :/ And I wish it'd be for a better reason than mocap. Maybe he really didn't want to return. But that's not what they're saying. This is like when Mark Hamill announced that he'd no longer portray the Joker. I practically cried that day. But WOW has this turned into such a *****-fest. Screw all of you! haha but I am excited to see more and will hopefully be able to customize the color of my outfit...or have access to a more classic suit. If not THE classic suit (x The Eclipse will suffice though.

[ImaDoctorJim]

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Tom-Clancys-Splinter-Cell-Blacklist/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802555308b6

tell me that is a joke.

multiplayer by 2 -10, but what combination?

I hope it is wrong

I might be misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you're under the impression that it'll be 2 players against 10 players.

If that's the case, don't worry about that because by 2-10, they mean you'll be able to play anywhere from 2 players TOTAL (1 vs 1) to 10 players TOTAL (5 vs 5)

Does that clear it up for you?

[ImaDoctorJim]

Ironside WAS Sam fisher. I will accept playing as Sam Fisher but it really won't be the same. I think I've been kind of...not thinking about it but I've known him as Sam since about 2nd, 3rd grade. SC has been a part of mhy life and not hearing that voice? :/ And I wish it'd be for a better reason than mocap. Maybe he really didn't want to return. But that's not what they're saying. This is like when Mark Hamill announced that he'd no longer portray the Joker. I practically cried that day. But WOW has this turned into such a *****-fest. Screw all of you! haha but I am excited to see more and will hopefully be able to customize the color of my outfit...or have access to a more classic suit. If not THE classic suit (x The Eclipse will suffice though.

Yeah, if Ironside had publicly said "I don't want to be Sam Fisher anymore", I would have nodded and thanked him for the memories. But that's not how it went down.

(Don't get any ideas, Ubi. It's too late for that.)

[Andre202]

I don't know, you know that Ironside didn't want to do SCC-2007, Belland went into alot to make him return to the game, cause he is a fan fav., As for Mocap let's not blame the developers, no really let's not, I believe (my opinion) that Ubi want to step it's games to be like the other games, hence Mocap, that's why they want someone like Eric, maybe the developers want Ironside to remain the voice of Sam, but Ubi may not want a game without Mocap.
The option of giving Sam the original voice seems to be there though. The only thing I have really heard, which prevents it, is that they don't want to add another layer but just do everything in one recording. When I am reading through this issue of Sam having a new voice I do hear a lot using the same argument hear, which seems to be that the voice doesn't match the movement of the body or whatever. I am not sure if anybody does take the work of a voice actor into consideration. I don't really get that argument at all actually. I mean I could care less about that issue because I am not directly affected by these changes on the voice in the english version of the game. But if people are using this argument to justify the voice change, why do we even have any voice actors at all? Voice acting isn't easy, they need to be able to put oneself in somebody's shoes. And yet a lot are questioning them, that they aren't able to do that? Wow, that's a big one. I have heard voice actors doing a better job then original voices. Yeah sometimes they even rewrite parts of the scripts so the film is still something you can watch while in the original it's complete trash.

MOCAP is just like an actor doing his job in a movie and afterwards getting his voice by an voiceactor. Pretty normal if the movie wasn't filmed in your native language. That's where people don't change the voice actor for any reason and if they change the voice, they replace the voiceactor by someone who has a similar voice. This doesn't seem to be the case here though because Ironside's voice is rough while Eric's isn't (not getting on Eric's actors skills, just stating something what seems to be obvious). In Germany you don't replace voiceactors that often because people just won't watch these films anymore. I wouldn't be able to imagine what would have happened if they would have given Bud Spencer for example a voice change in the mid of his career or Nicolas Cage who has the same voice as Sam here in Germany.




As for the whole new character, some people still want Sam Fisher in the field, that's why somewhere deep in my heart I feel happy about it (even though I was ready for a new character in SC7), there are adults who will complain about the absence of Sam, if he didn't come in SCB I would have complained all day long, cause I didn't feel like SCC was the perfect ending for him (even though I enjoyed it alot), I wanted him back for one final epic mission in his Stealth Suit.
I do see myself liking it to play all future Splinter Cell titles with Sam Fisher. But I also see that I wouldn't like it too, because the character will lose it's uniqueness and the game will lose it's details it was known for. It will feel ackward when we are playing Splinter Cell in 20 years with Sam Fisher and future tech we wouldn't be able to imagine now. Quit when it's the best time to quit.




Ironside is passing the torch to someone else, as I said sooner or later Ironside won't be here, while Sam will be, so with a new beginning, making a new voice, a new take on the character, I believe it is the right move, don't get me wrong, as I said before I love Ironside, but I see that this needed to happen if Fisher is to stay around for 10 more years.
Ironside may still have voiced him some years but well... I really don't know about that.

[coltcat]

Know what's sad? I knew it would never happen but now it's pretty much confirmed. I wanted one last CLASSIC SC game complete with Ironside and all. A CT2 but really even an SAR2. It's not that I think I'll be disappointed by Blacklist. I'm sure it'll be a fun game on it's own and as a SPLINTER CELL game -- i'm not sure yet...I need more visual proof and not just promises to truly know BUT...I wanted one last hurrah and a good, realistic end that Clancy would be proud of. None of the hollywood/conviction bull to accompany it because for me...the "Sam Fisher I knew" was dead and never returned once he dove into the water in New York after blowing the coast guard boat up. An alternate version of him showed up in Malta but as far as I'm concerned -- that's not even in the same universe as the REAL Sam Fisher. I wanted one last game with him. A final end. And you know what? I will never be able to play Double Agent all the way through again. A mission here and there but seeing the To Be Continued? When it really never was? I can't. Sigh. I'm being overly dramatic I know and if the gameplay gets back on track I will love it but the voice being gone...it really won't be the same. It just dawned on me. I won't rage or anything. And if it feels like SC, that's what matters but there will always be that little bit of me that even if they made it into SCCT2...without Ironside...a little part of me will always think of it as not the same. Does it mean the voice means a no buy? No. I will buy if the gameplay will remind me of the good old days. I have one last outing with the true Sam as far as Ican tell -- the original xbox version of DA and that's it -- and even that ends with a cliffhanger...

Ironside WAS Sam fisher. I will accept playing as Sam Fisher but it really won't be the same. I think I've been kind of...not thinking about it but I've known him as Sam since about 2nd, 3rd grade. SC has been a part of mhy life and not hearing that voice? :/ And I wish it'd be for a better reason than mocap. Maybe he really didn't want to return. But that's not what they're saying. This is like when Mark Hamill announced that he'd no longer portray the Joker. I practically cried that day. But WOW has this turned into such a *****-fest. Screw all of you! haha but I am excited to see more and will hopefully be able to customize the color of my outfit...or have access to a more classic suit. If not THE classic suit (x The Eclipse will suffice though.
besides of what you've point out. witch is true, SCC was a extremely lousy way to put MI's voice to history.
major factor of people's unaccepting due to the fact there was zero communication or indication or announcement.
it was such a "in your face" move, we got like a 3 min vid officially release by ubisoft indicate thats happened.
no more talks to the fans, no mentioning in interviews, no one in devs shows just a faction of grief for the end of a great era.
"we've made it, you've better eat it up"
it ultimately brings the feeling of even creators dont treat this subject seriously. why is it hard to release the news at preproduction dates and tells us why, explain the reason behind this decision in detail? everyone's asking MI can do the voice over and leave mocap to others thats more agile, wasnt that gonna cut it? will the result of mocap with Eric being so flawless devs need to get rid of the old fashion way of game cutscene making? or is Ironside get tired for doing this, not being pay well? or thinks theres no potential in this project so he quit?(that would be terrible)
witch one is the situation we have right now? ubisoft going way too understate on this subject. this is big deal, it deserve more cover from ubisoft's PR project.

[sameer_monier]

The option of giving Sam the original voice seems to be there though. The only thing I have really heard, which prevents it, is that they don't want to add another layer but just do everything in one. When I am reading through this issue of Sam having a new voice I do hear a lot using the same argument hear, which seems to be that the voice doesn't match the movement of the body or whatever. I am not sure if anybody does take the work of a voice actor into consideration.
2 things here, first adding a layer of Ironside voice, and having option for both voice actors, that will mean more resources, more money from Ubi to the developers, it's like they are paying for 2 persons full salary, the devs may want to do it, but does Ubi want to ?!, that's my whole point, not everything is in the hands of the devs, some things need more money from Ubi. (& Ubi are known for cutting loses)

As for the voice not matching, I believe they are talking about Lip. Sych ?!, but I believe this is still early, according to Jazz the animation not even final yet, so there is room for improvements there.



I don't really get that argument at all actually. I mean I could care less about that issue because I am not directly affected by these changes on the voice in the english version of the game. But if people are using this argument to justify the voice change, why do we even have any voice actors at all? Voice acting isn't easy, they need to be able to put oneself in somebody's shoes. And yet a lot are questioning them, that they aren't able to do that? Wow, that's a big one. I have heard voice actors doing a better job then original voices. Yeah sometimes they even rewrite parts of the scripts so the film is still something you can watch while in the original it's complete trash.

Totally agree, it reminds me of Spartacus Blood & Sands show, Andy Whitfield died after S.1, and let me tell you he was more than amazing, he was Spartacus, his facial emotions, getting angry, conveying emotions, he was HIM, he died, and the show would have suffered cancellation, the brought another actor, I believe he had a tremendous pressure, filling the role of someone as great as Andy wasn't easy, and the fans were really skeptical, the show was so amazing to get cancelled, and we got S.2 and let's say that Liam lived to it, he had a good presence, and filled the role more or less.


MOCAP is just like an actor doing his job in a movie and afterwards getting his voice by an voiceactor. Pretty normal if the movie wasn't filmed in your native language. That's where people don't change the voice actor for any reason and if they change the voice, they replace the voiceactor by someone who has a similar voice. This doesn't seem to be the case here though because Ironside's voice is rough while Eric's isn't (not getting on Eric's actors skills, just stating something what seems to be obvious). In Germany you don't replace voiceactors that often because people just won't watch these films anymore. I wouldn't be able to imagine what would have happened if they would have given Bud Spencer for example a voice change in the mid of his career or Nicolas Cage who has the same voice as Sam here in Germany.
I do understand that, but I believe they want to capture the voice while doing the MOCAP, at the same time so they have all the emotions, for example if Sam went into some work and is exhausted, that would be conveyed through too, and they can't tell Ironside go exhaust yourself on that mill and come back to record this one line, Eric sometimes sound like Ironside, maybe he is making it up, trying to sound rough, but I will see how it holds.



I do see myself liking it to play all future Splinter Cell titles with Sam Fisher. But I also see that I wouldn't like it too, because the character will lose it's uniqueness and the game will lose it's details it was known for. It will feel ackward when we are playing Splinter Cell in 20 years with Sam Fisher and future tech we wouldn't be able to imagine now. Quit when it's the best time to quit.
Agree, if SCB is as big as the developers say, and can be really the last title of Sam Fisher then yeah I can tell him goodbye, but for that to happen SCB really needs to be a beast, I need to play it first then decide, but I think devs should introduce a new character just incase.



Ironside may still have voiced him some years but well... I really don't know about that.
Neither do I, it is one of these situations were every answer is a right one.

[Andre202]

2 things here, first adding a layer of Ironside voice, and having option for both voice actors, that will mean more resources, more money from Ubi to the developers, it's like they are paying for 2 persons full salary, the devs may want to do it, but does Ubi want to ?!, that's my whole point, not everything is in the hands of the devs, some things need more money from Ubi. (& Ubi are known for cutting loses)
Yeah, it may be just a financial reason which they won't say anyway, so they need to find other reasons.




As for the voice not matching, I believe they are talking about Lip. Sych ?!, but I believe this is still early, according to Jazz the animation not even final yet, so there is room for improvements there.
Lip Synch wasn't available in Conviction at all, the voice actors still achieved it to sound good and "right" more or less. But I wouldn't take Lip. Synch. as a reason either. It would be even more easier for MI to voice Sam when they are final.




I do understand that, but I believe they want to capture the voice while doing the MOCAP, at the same time so they have all the emotions, for example if Sam went into some work and is exhausted, that would be conveyed through too, and they can't tell Ironside go exhaust yourself on that mill and come back to record this one line, Eric sometimes sound like Ironside, maybe he is making it up, trying to sound rough, but I will see how it holds.
That's something a voice actor actually does. He just wouldn't run around for that to sound exhausted. He would act as if he is exhausted and do the voice to that. That's all what a voice actor does. I mean they did record his voice for example in DA and you could feel his age now through being exhausted all the time when does some straining moves.




Agree, if SCB is as big as the developers say, and can be really the last title of Sam Fisher then yeah I can tell him goodbye, but for that to happen SCB really needs to be a beast, I need to play it first then decide, but I think devs should introduce a new character just incase.
If they change the actor for him now, I don't think it will be his last title.
If it was really his last title, they wouldn't change the actor in my opinion.

[Warcroft888]

Ah, you see that's so interesting because that's exactly the kind of complaint I have about the voice in Blacklist. Conviction WASN'T a good end for Fisher. I guess part of me wants to see the Ironside Fisher I grew up with in the stealth suit and actually BEING stealthy in a next gen game. Guess knowing that I'll never see that makes the change even harder to swallow.

This is exactly how I feel. Leading up to the announcement of Blacklist, I was super excited to go on one last adventure, one last mission with Sam Fisher to save the world. Prior to E3, Jade Raymond made some comment about the series returning to its roots. But after seeing the trailer for Blacklist, I'm not so sure. I honestly see no difference between Conviction and Blacklist. I hope I'm wrong.

Please Ubisoft. Just give me one last adventure with Ironside in the traditional Tac Suit.

[ImaDoctorJim]

This is exactly how I feel. Leading up to the announcement of Blacklist, I was super excited to go on one last adventure, one last mission with Sam Fisher to save the world. Prior to E3, Jade Raymond made some comment about the series returning to its roots. But after seeing the trailer for Blacklist, I'm not so sure. I honestly see no difference between Conviction and Blacklist. I hope I'm wrong.

Please Ubisoft. Just give me one last adventure with Ironside in the traditional Tac Suit.

I can't wait for you to see this video I'm working on. It's gonna blow your f*cking mind.

[Knot3D]

I can't wait for you to see this video I'm working on. It's gonna blow your f*cking mind. Anxious !

[sameer_monier]

Yeah, it may be just a financial reason which they won't say anyway, so they need to find other reasons.

So we won't get angry at Ubi itself haha


Lip Synch wasn't available in Conviction at all, the voice actors still achieved it to sound good and "right" more or less. But I wouldn't take Lip. Synch. as a reason either. It would be even more easier for MI to voice Sam when they are final.

Agree, maybe he didn't want in again ?!, I think he came for SCC due to the personal story, now its back to the roots more or less


That's something a voice actor actually does. He just wouldn't run around for that to sound exhausted. He would act as if he is exhausted and do the voice to that. That's all what a voice actor does. I mean they did record his voice for example in DA and you could feel his age now through being exhausted all the time when does some straining moves.

Then I stand corrected.


If they change the actor for him now, I don't think it will be his last title.
If it was really his last title, they wouldn't change the actor in my opinion.

Very True too.

[Kerim_]

I might be misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you're under the impression that it'll be 2 players against 10 players.

If that's the case, don't worry about that because by 2-10, they mean you'll be able to play anywhere from 2 players TOTAL (1 vs 1) to 10 players TOTAL (5 vs 5)

Does that clear it up for you?

But even if they did this multiplayer el casino, where is the "back-to-basics?".

becomes increasingly chaotic instead of being stelth

[NDCRP]

I have the strong feeling that with the "Ironside it's coaching Johnson" video they tried to throw us a bone.
I think actually that Ironside wasn't comfortable with the "american action hero killing machine vs the foreign bad guys" direction of the story and decided to not return as Sam Fisher.
He wasn't initially comfortable with the story of SAR but had the chance to modify parts of the dialogues and make Sam his own character,but he didn't liked PT,he had again the possibility of change dialogues to put a bit of humanity and depth in his role in CT,and had a lot of problems with DA and the ultra-patriotic dumb dialogue and story.
If he decided to not return in BL I understand him,from what I saw in the last week it looks like another game like Pandora Tomorrow and Double Agent,trying too hard to be like a stereotypical action movie and not what it should be: a videogame with well acted characters and original story.
Sorry for my bad english.

[sameer_monier]

I have the strong feeling that with the "Ironside it's coaching Johnson" video they tried to throw us a bone.
I think actually that Ironside wasn't comfortable with the "american action hero killing machine vs the foreign bad guys" direction of the story and decided to not return as Sam Fisher.
He wasn't initially comfortable with the story of SAR but had the chance to modify parts of the dialogues and make Sam his own character,but he didn't liked PT,he had again the possibility of change dialogues to put a bit of humanity and depth in his role in CT,and had a lot of problems with DA and the ultra-patriotic dumb dialogue and story.
If he decided to not return in BL I understand him,from what I saw in the last week it looks like another game like Pandora Tomorrow and Double Agent,trying too hard to be like a stereotypical action movie and not what it should be: a videogame with well acted characters and original story.
Sorry for my bad english.

Not true at all, Ironside didn't want to return since SCC-2007, Belland actually brought him back with SCC-2010, Ironside liked the personal story of Sam, he loved SCC what the devs were doing.

[NDCRP]

Not true at all, Ironside didn't want to return since SCC-2007, Belland actually brought him back with SCC-2010, Ironside liked the personal story of Sam, he loved SCC what the devs were doing.

That's why I didn't mentioned Conviction.
But I bet he was afraid that the story for Conviction was awful like the DA one(I'm speaking about the 360 version,the old-gen version was neither bad nor good,had just a little more depth).

[sameer_monier]

That's why I didn't mentioned Conviction.
But I bet he was afraid that the story for Conviction was awful like the DA one(I'm speaking about the 360 version,the old-gen version was neither bad nor good,had just a little more depth).
He loved SCC Story, I am talking about Belland Version.

[NDCRP]

If you read carefully you can see i'm not saying he didn't liked Conviction,but that he didn't liked DA.
I guess his neighbour showed him the 360 version and not the original xbox-ps2-wii version(as MI stated in some interviews,he does not play videogames,he just watch them :D ).

[ImaDoctorJim]

But even if they did this multiplayer el casino, where is the "back-to-basics?".

becomes increasingly chaotic instead of being stelth

It's true that with Pandora Tomorrow and Chaos Theory you could only have 4 players, and then with Double Agent you could have 6, but I don't think 10 will be too high. Multiplayer is more flexible. Plus, if you want to have a smaller number of players, you could always host your own lobby or have a LAN party. (Because we ARE getting LAN support, right? RIIIIGHT?!)