watch rainbow turn into Call Of Duty...

[BKLYNCANNON]

All i know is, in this era nobody cares about the art of games anymore. Its about making money, this great game like so many others has and will meet its demise when it compares itself to another fast paced, huge explosion, action packed thriller. The son of call of duty, like so many others and therefore will forever be changed.

[Dieinthedark]

Beat me to it lol!

[Raven Kellie]

If money is such an issue, thin about this:
Changing the game fully will make THE fans quit.
Changing the game fully might bring new gamers, but not enough to compensate the old gamers.
Adding to the original R6 some innovation, will bring the cash... That is only my opinion though.

Is Ubi really in the "I don't care about the fans" zone? I don't think, I don't hope so.
As for the title of the thread, CoD.... let's not exaggerate. But still most shooter games will all look the same at the end, I mean, you shoot people. The End. But the story in the game, the characters, the gamers and all the little details will make each game different. That is why some prefer CoD, some R6, some Battlefield...

[TRAJEKTURY]

Splinter Cell Conviction was ruined for no reason then, how could they have thought COD people would like that? And it would appear that the same is about to happen w/ Future Soldier. Rainbow 6 is the last hope. Little things like be able to screw a suppressor on your gun at any time in the middle of a match. Things like that should not be removed.

[Dcopymope]

Splinter Cell Conviction was ruined for no reason then, how could they have thought COD people would like that? And it would appear that the same is about to happen w/ Future Soldier. Rainbow 6 is the last hope. Little things like be able to screw a suppressor on your gun at any time in the middle of a match. Things like that should not be removed.

Oh god, don't get me started on Future Soldier, what absolute crap that game is. NOTHING at all about Future Solder resembles what Ghost Recon used to be about in the slightest. Its nothing more than a third person Call of Duty/Halo game with the same half-assed cover system from Vegas. If the game was just called Future Solder without the name Ghost Recon attached to it I wouldn't have a problem with it. But of course, they know Future Solder wouldn't sale jack **** in units if it wasn't called Ghost Recon, because as I've shown before with Vegas and Conviction, most of the people that has ever bought any Ghost Recon game are those that were into the franchise since its inception, the real fans. If Future Soldier is any indication at all, then the chances of Patriots actually turning out to be a real Rainbow Six game in any way shape or form is slim to none.

[EvilPixieGrrr]

It's still very early into development of Rainbow Six: Patriots, please bear that in mind. The game won't be released until next year, so there is lots of time for the development team to put some real polish and great gameplay into place. In the meantime, please continue to voice your concerns AND compliments constructively so the team can most effectively produce the best game they can.

The Forum Managers are here to advocate for you, so keep up he feedback and I'll happily pass it along. :D

[TRAJEKTURY]

It's still very early into development of Rainbow Six: Patriots, please bear that in mind. The game won't be released until next year, so there is lots of time for the development team to put some real polish and great gameplay into place. In the meantime, please continue to voice your concerns AND compliments constructively so the team can most effectively produce the best game they can.

The Forum Managers are here to advocate for you, so keep up he feedback and I'll happily pass it along. :D

I hear you. I think alot of us are just in dismay how much things were changed and are being changed and apparrently not for the better. If you look at Splinter Cell, and Future Soldier it quite disheartening and you as a fan get the feeling that UBI really does care to much about your concerns. None less we just want the good things to get better and the new things to be subject to our scrutiny as well as theres. We know utimately it their decision, but we like to be included in the process as much as possible, and maybe the rainbow people could start changing this since as you pointed out there is still over a year left.

[EvilPixieGrrr]

Understandable. I can see why people would be concerned since many feel that GR and SC have ventured in the wrong direction.

[Dieinthedark]

@Evil - considering you're our go between from us to ubi, does Ubisoft recognize and understand this concern? or are our complaints falling of deaf ears? I think we're all just curious as to how much or "voice" is noticed. Nothing hateful just a curious, albeit concerned question. Thanks for any help! :cool:

[EvilPixieGrrr]

They ask me to report to them your comments and concerns on a weekly basis, so yes, they are definitely interested in what the fans of the franchise have to say. I'm forwarding on a report this afternoon and this topic will be included. :)

[Raven Kellie]

They ask me to report to them your comments and concerns on a weekly basis, so yes, they are definitely interested in what the fans of the franchise have to say. I'm forwarding on a report this afternoon and this topic will be included. :)

Always a relief to hear that, even though I am always a lil scared on what it's gonna look like.

Oh.. would you know...? I heard it's already possible to pre-order!? Would there be a special edition copy?

BTW... Love your Avatar! :D

[Dieinthedark]

They ask me to report to them your comments and concerns on a weekly basis, so yes, they are definitely interested in what the fans of the franchise have to say. I'm forwarding on a report this afternoon and this topic will be included. :)

Thanks a bunch!

[Dcopymope]

They ask me to report to them your comments and concerns on a weekly basis, so yes, they are definitely interested in what the fans of the franchise have to say. I'm forwarding on a report this afternoon and this topic will be included. :)

I'm sure you feel that being the messenger is actually making a lick of difference, but if I were the messenger and I saw the atrocity that is Future Soldier, I would be thinking the exact opposite. Given that it is their stated goal to dumb their games down to make it marketable to this mystical group of "casual" gamers that I'm still having a very hard time finding for Tom Clancy games, you should ask your higher ups in Ubi Soft which group of "fans" are they actually taking into account or consider to be the most important. What is a Rainbow Six fan to them? I am very eager to see their definition of what a Rainbow Six, Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon fan is as they see it. It would be like an official declaration of intent for these specific games, that way your statement would actually mean something. This really should be the first question people should be asking if there is another Q & A session with the CEO or developer of any of the aforementioned games at E3 or some other event.

[EvilPixieGrrr]

Always a relief to hear that, even though I am always a lil scared on what it's gonna look like.

Oh.. would you know...? I heard it's already possible to pre-order!? Would there be a special edition copy?

BTW... Love your Avatar! :D

Yes, you can pre-order through UBIShop (http://shop.ubi.com/store/ubina/en_US/search/vars.false/sort.relevanceFactor?q=rainbow+six+patriots) and through Amazon. I'm sure you can pre-order at GameStop as well. I don't know about a Special Edition yet.

And thanks! A good friend of mine made me that avi a long time ago. I like it so much I've used it for years!


Thanks a bunch!

You're welcome! It's my pleasure.


I'm sure you feel that being the messenger is actually making a lick of difference, but if I were the messenger and I saw the atrocity that is Future Soldier, I would be thinking the exact opposite. Given that it is their stated goal to dumb their games down to make it marketable to this mystical group of "casual" gamers that I'm still having a very hard time finding for Tom Clancy games, you should ask your higher ups in Ubi Soft which group of "fans" are they actually taking into account or consider to be the most important. What is a Rainbow Six fan to them? I am very eager to see their definition of what a Rainbow Six, Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon fan is as they see it. It would be like an official declaration of intent for these specific games, that way your statement would actually mean something. This really should be the first question people should be asking if there is another Q & A session with the CEO or developer of any of the aforementioned games at E3 or some other event.

One of the aspects of my job is to pass along both positive and negative feedback to the team. You WANT your Forum Managers to feel they make a difference, if we didn't then we'd feel like it's useless to try for you guys. I find your comment that the Forum Managers should somehow feel like they don't matter in the process not at all constructive.

Please don't assume that I, or any of the Forum Managers, haven't passed along concerns from longtime fans of the franchise (fans from before Vegas 1&2). We have, and they have been nothing less than receptive.

[Dieinthedark]

Yep, that's all we can do. We can't go to lunch with the devs and say hey this is cool, this sucks, what are you doing but we can voice our opinion and hope we are heard. That's all we can do and that's what I will settle on. The way I see it is this: SC6 has been teased for how long now and guess what, the SC side of the forums have no Com Dev! Wow! But look at Patriots, its not even due out till next year and this forum already has a Com Dev (who's been nothing but helpful) who is passing along our concerns, comments, complaints, worries, hopes everything on. I'd be thrilled if we had somebody over on the SC side to do the same. :cool:

[Raven Kellie]

I'm sure you feel that being the messenger is actually making a lick of difference, but if I were the messenger and I saw the atrocity that is Future Soldier, I would be thinking the exact opposite. Given that it is their stated goal to dumb their games down to make it marketable to this mystical group of "casual" gamers that I'm still having a very hard time finding for Tom Clancy games, you should ask your higher ups in Ubi Soft which group of "fans" are they actually taking into account or consider to be the most important. What is a Rainbow Six fan to them? I am very eager to see their definition of what a Rainbow Six, Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon fan is as they see it. It would be like an official declaration of intent for these specific games, that way your statement would actually mean something. This really should be the first question people should be asking if there is another Q & A session with the CEO or developer of any of the aforementioned games at E3 or some other event.


Stop me if I am wrong, but aren't the R6 fans the ones who speaks up the most? When a game is announced to be out, for now I saw they were if I compare to the others.
Of course, as A Splinter Cell fan, I would not like to see more changes than they did now. But somewhat, I speak more for R6....

[Dcopymope]

Stop me if I am wrong, but aren't the R6 fans the ones who speaks up the most? When a game is announced to be out, for now I saw they were if I compare to the others.
Of course, as A Splinter Cell fan, I would not like to see more changes than they did now. But somewhat, I speak more for R6....

All kinds of people claiming to be fans spoke out as soon as the target trailer was released, some didn't like it at all, some did. In the end, this is irrelevant, because its pretty clear to me now after looking at Future Soldier that it won't matter how many people seem to be for or against what Ubi Soft plans on doing with Patriots. Ubi Soft, despite all the constructive criticism by the fans, has decided to give us Future Soldier which we now see is the furthest thing from a real Ghost Recon game as anyone can possibly make. If this doesn't concern you in any way, then nothing will. And you being a Splinter Cell fan, witnessing the gradual dumbing down of the franchise with each title, Conviction marking the major downward spiral like Future Soldier is with Ghost Recon, you know there will continue to be more unwanted changes with the next Splinter Cell title until it no longer resembles Splinter Cell in the slightest. I would be surprised if this doesn't turn out to be the case.

[Raven Kellie]

All kinds of people claiming to be fans spoke out as soon as the target trailer was released, some didn't like it at all, some did. In the end, this is irrelevant, because its pretty clear to me now after looking at Future Soldier that it won't matter how many people seem to be for or against what Ubi Soft plans on doing with Patriots. Ubi Soft, despite all the constructive criticism by the fans, has decided to give us Future Soldier which we now see is the furthest thing from a real Ghost Recon game as anyone can possibly make. If this doesn't concern you in any way, then nothing will. And you being a Splinter Cell fan, witnessing the gradual dumbing down of the franchise with each title, Conviction marking the major downward spiral like Future Soldier is with Ghost Recon, you know there will continue to be more unwanted changes with the next Splinter Cell title until it no longer resembles Splinter Cell in the slightest. I would be surprised if this doesn't turn out to be the case.

Guess, I am not fan enough of GR then... ahahah

For SP... I've been playing since Pandora and played all the games including Conviction. I don't really play online, I am more of a story mode fan (for SP)... I saw some changes, but the basics are the same. I would lie if I said that I didn't like Conviction.
Ok, Chaos theory is my favorite and Double Agent my less favorite.
For now, the only concern I have is the one I had when they changed Ezio in Brotherhood and saw him old and finally retiring in Revelations: The main character shift. (FYI, I wasnt a Altair fan, began to be a AC fan at ACII). You see them as immortals in a kind of way, seeing otherwise kills the magic. And what I see, is Sam Fisher being on the edge of retiring
in the Caribbean's...

[Ubi-Mush]

Talking of feedback, The Com Dev and I have been reading this thread http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/626071-UBI-to-consumer-BIDIRECTIONAL-co there is some good feedback in there.

Please be aware we do read all your feedback, are regularly in contact with developers and creating reports.

[Dieinthedark]

@ Dcopymope

Basically the way I see GRFS and SCC being considered flops by the hardcore community is in the fact that both games share a common factor, namely both games had an original intention/goal and the entire game direction was changed mid development. GRFS had the exoskeletons, the shoulder mounted rocket launcher etc... and SCC had social stealth. They got feedback, scrapped both of those designs and went back the drawing boards. But by this time they've already spent money so they need to get their game out as quickly as possible. As soon as they got enough stuff to build their new concepts/ideas off of they went at it because the longer they keep waiting, the more money they're loosing.

Also with Patriots, its pretty obvious from their POV that V1 and V2 didn't meet expectations. They've already said that they want to restore Rainbow to its former glory. They made a mistake, actually they made two mistakes (from the hardcore POV) and now they're set to correct them. This is my view and I for one believe that they are in fact looking to make Patriots a top title contender. Meanwhile, if for some odd chance Patriots fails as well, we've got Takedown.

[sameer_monier]

DIE: Totally agree, one of the problem with Ubi is that when they get feed back they change the game dramitcally, instead of trying to add more options, and depth, which ends up taking more resources, let's take GRFS I grew to like the new direction, but back in 2010-2011 I was in love with the first version, no really I loved the hell out of it, and now they changed it but still most fans didn't like what they saw, cause Ubi changed the game without addressing the gameplay mechanics that the fans wanted.

As for Patriots, I think they are trying (or were trying when Sears was on the helm) to combine the fans of Vegas with the fans of older titles, like having TPV from Vegas, with a Clancy Mature Story, adding Different Approached to the same Scenario, along side some Moral Choices, I hope we don't lose all that.

[Dcopymope]

@ Dcopymope

Basically the way I see GRFS and SCC being considered flops by the hardcore community is in the fact that both games share a common factor, namely both games had an original intention/goal and the entire game direction was changed mid development. GRFS had the exoskeletons, the shoulder mounted rocket launcher etc... and SCC had social stealth. They got feedback, scrapped both of those designs and went back the drawing boards. But by this time they've already spent money so they need to get their game out as quickly as possible. As soon as they got enough stuff to build their new concepts/ideas off of they went at it because the longer they keep waiting, the more money they're loosing.

Also with Patriots, its pretty obvious from their POV that V1 and V2 didn't meet expectations. They've already said that they want to restore Rainbow to its former glory. They made a mistake, actually they made two mistakes (from the hardcore POV) and now they're set to correct them. This is my view and I for one believe that they are in fact looking to make Patriots a top title contender. Meanwhile, if for some odd chance Patriots fails as well, we've got Takedown.

This sounds like a bunch of BS to me. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and believed this sorry excuse for those games turning out complete trash from the start, but now I'm not buying into any of it. They knew from the get go what kind of game they wanted to make with Conviction and Future Soldier as they obviously do with Patriots. Its all based on the policy of dumbing their games down, the real goal, not the one we like to hope is the goal, or imagine in our minds. They got the feedback they wanted to hear that reinforced their stated policy and ignored the rest, while pretending in public light to be interested in what the "fans" have to say, whatever a "fan" is to them. This is how I see it because it makes the most sense to me at this point. The shoulder mounted rocket launcher, social stealth and other gameplay mechanics at that point and time were nothing more than ideas that were planned to be implemented. They were concepts that were on the drawing board and was scrapped as development went along, because whatever idea is planned to be in the game must be in line with the stated policy, otherwise it will never see the light of day. "Restoring Rainbow Six to its former glory" doesn't mean much to me because we've hear it all before with Future Soldier. But as for Patriots, for now, this is a vague term that will be given more meaning come E3, assuming they have something to show at all.

[Dieinthedark]

As for Patriots, I think they are trying (or were trying when Sears was on the helm) to combine the fans of Vegas with the fans of older titles, like having TPV from Vegas, with a Clancy Mature Story, adding Different Approached to the same Scenario, along side some Moral Choices, I hope we don't lose all that.

That sincerely did seem like his goal and I also hope we don't loose a big part of that.

@Dcopymope So are you saying that the shoulder mounted rocket launchers and social stealth were scrapped because they were too intelligent for Ubi's policy of dumbing down their games? I just want to make sure I understand you...

[Dcopymope]

That sincerely did seem like his goal and I also hope we don't loose a big part of that.

@Dcopymope So are you saying that the shoulder mounted rocket launchers and social stealth were scrapped because they were too intelligent for Ubi's policy of dumbing down their games? I just want to make sure I understand you...

They wanted to make a game that was as simple as possible to the point that even a child can play it. If their idea of how they wanted the player to use the mounted rocket launcher was contrary to this goal, then they remove it, we outsiders would define it as a "balance" issue.

[Dieinthedark]

Alright that makes sense. My only argument to that would be that wouldn't a child find a game easier with shoulder mounted rocket launchers and exoskeletons and such than the game GRFS is now? I would think so but I'm asking you...

[SolidSage]

GRFS Beta had one of the more intelligent MP modes I've played. I don't see it as a dumbing down myself. It's kinda easy to be a hinderance to your team if you aren't on board with the game plan and fullfilling your role.

I am interested to see how Patriots will advance the genre further.

[Justin-x]

I for one think that they should just stick to the vision that they have now where the gameplay is somewhat "simplified" but also has quite a bit of options for the harcore group. This would be ideal in keeping all sides satisfied or at the very least, pleased with it. Making the game completely casualized or harcore would have all parties unhappy.

[Dcopymope]

Alright that makes sense. My only argument to that would be that wouldn't a child find a game easier with shoulder mounted rocket launchers and exoskeletons and such than the game GRFS is now? I would think so but I'm asking you...

Well again, it depends on how they planned on us using them, but we'll never know for sure now, since those ideas were scrapped.

[sameer_monier]

GRFS Beta had one of the more intelligent MP modes I've played. I don't see it as a dumbing down myself. It's kinda easy to be a hinderance to your team if you aren't on board with the game plan and fullfilling your role.

I am interested to see how Patriots will advance the genre further.
From what I remember it will use a follow system similar to GRFS where you follow someone, but this time he is kinda your superior or something, seems like an evolution to me.

[Raven Kellie]

Hey! Wooo! V1 and V2 are hardcore success compared to LockDown! lol :p
And... seriously, I love those... It is not BA but it's R6 with a sparkle. They could have messed up worst than that. :o

[Dcopymope]

Hey! Wooo! V1 and V2 are hardcore success compared to LockDown! lol :p
And... seriously, I love those... It is not BA but it's R6 with a sparkle. They could have messed up worst than that. :o

When it comes down to it, Lockdown was nothing more than a prototype for the Vegas games. It had the exact same style as Vegas, only less developed. So we really should have known than that the play style of Lockdown would be the general direction Rainbow Six would be going, Black Arrow being another prime example. But because the game was developed by Red Storm, alarm bells wasn't going off in anybody's head.

[iDrownKittns]

If this happens I swear to god I'll cry. R6V2 was the only game holding up the fight against MW back in the day. As its own game!

[The_5_Freedoms]

From what I remember it will use a follow system similar to GRFS where you follow someone, but this time he is kinda your superior or something, seems like an evolution to me.
Wait, what?! So we're not even the commanding officer of our own squad?! That's not an evolution that's a devolution!

What's the point of the game even being called Rainbow Six then? :confused:

[Raven Kellie]

Wait, what?! So we're not even the commanding officer of our own squad?! That's not an evolution that's a devolution!

What's the point of the game even being called Rainbow Six then? :confused:

Semi-Follow.... But sometimes map is so huge ex: desert, it's kinda good but you lead sometimes, sometimes not.... Anyways, I realized I am too much of a R6 fan to "follow" GR... but I'll have to at least finish the campaign..

[sameer_monier]

Wait, what?! So we're not even the commanding officer of our own squad?! That's not an evolution that's a devolution!

What's the point of the game even being called Rainbow Six then? :confused:
if you don't want to, you don't have to, I think it is something for less experienced players, say you are better than someone, then he follows you, and gain experience or something among those lines.
I totally remember it being a good system, but I can't recall the specifics, watch the gameinformer MP interview, I am pretty sure you will find it there.

[ElKabonggg]

I was so looking forward to this game & they come out with this Battlefield wanna be, they destroyed the GRAW series and went away from everything that made the game great.


Oh god, don't get me started on Future Soldier, what absolute crap that game is. NOTHING at all about Future Solder resembles what Ghost Recon used to be about in the slightest. Its nothing more than a third person Call of Duty/Halo game with the same half-assed cover system from Vegas. If the game was just called Future Solder without the name Ghost Recon attached to it I wouldn't have a problem with it. But of course, they know Future Solder wouldn't sale jack **** in units if it wasn't called Ghost Recon, because as I've shown before with Vegas and Conviction, most of the people that has ever bought any Ghost Recon game are those that were into the franchise since its inception, the real fans. If Future Soldier is any indication at all, then the chances of Patriots actually turning out to be a real Rainbow Six game in any way shape or form is slim to none.

[Dieinthedark]

I was so looking forward to this game & they come out with this Battlefield wanna be, they destroyed the GRAW series and went away from everything that made the game great.

Battlefield wanna be? Really? I didn't see any footage that showed vehicles, big open warfare, or any MP footage...destroyed GRAW? No, they ended it to experiment with something new. And the only thing that's been shown is a target footage, nothing more. If you don't like the direction then be constructive at least and say why specifically you don't like it! :cool:

[zachanscom]

it already did, back when lockdown and then cemented with vegas. but stupid people actually thought those games were realistic and tactical.