strum down only or up + down?

[matt_cohen]

When you see a bunch of notes really fast in a row, are you supposed to strum up + down or down only?
Thanks!

[SeattleSauve]

Kinda depends on the song, and what kind of sound you're looking for. But yes, often you will want to strum up/down through faster sections.

It is definitely a skill worth practicing because it is used a lot.

[RavageX]

I have a question about that....on one song, what is it....Slow Hands or whatever, there are lots of sections that use the second and fourth strings(non-traditional). A few of those sections have fast strumming parts.

Basically, what I'm asking is wouldn't doing alternate strums make that sound off? I can't tell quite yet when I play cause' I'm not the best at alt strumming.

[Cloudfuel]

Ideally you want your upstroke to sound like your downstroke, that way you can alternate-strum and have no differentiation of sound. Certain songs use the downstroke on power chords and heavy riffs to add emphasis.

For the time being, I would recommend you work on both your alt-strumming and your down strumming. The faster you can get your down strum to be, the faster/cleaner your alt-strumming should be.

For chords played on the 2nd & 4th string (I'm assuming you mean the A & G string / 2nd & 4th largest), make sure you are muting the 3rd string (D) with your middle finger and then just use your index and ring to fret the proper notes on the A & G strings. Make sure your up/down-stroke motion is fluid... you don't want to hear a break between notes (unless intended).

[GuitarNub]

I have a question about that....on one song, what is it....Slow Hands or whatever, there are lots of sections that use the second and fourth strings(non-traditional). A few of those sections have fast strumming parts.

Basically, what I'm asking is wouldn't doing alternate strums make that sound off? I can't tell quite yet when I play cause' I'm not the best at alt strumming.

These are double stops. Once you get confidence to fret them and mute the other strings or confidence that you are fretting and muting properly, I'm sure your strumming will get better. Down / Up uses half the energy as Down / Down as your hand is going up any way. Personally, I find the two sound completely different as well.

I wouldn't worry to awfully much about it, IMO it's a confidence block right now.

[thxphotog]

I notice on some songs that have a lengthy strum pattern (Radiohead 'High n Dry') that when I strum up/down I get a 'groove bonus' that I don't get with a simple down strum. This is not just an up/down from the start, but you strum to the melody so it varies a bit, but say 'down, down, down, up/down, up/down, up/down etc. A triplet pattern.

[Steel_Nirvana]

As a matter of technique, on the double stops that skip a string, I find that rolling my index finger back a bit to mute the unplayed middle string is a lot easier and cleaner than trying to use a third finger to get enough pressure to mute but not enough to sound the note. YMMV.

[The_Penguin222]

I think it's important to differentiate between strumming and picking. I.E. you strum a chord, but you pick individual notes.

That said, I think it's important to do alternate picking (up down up down) as it really reduces the effort and increases your speed. Up or down sound pretty much the same with picking.

Strumming is a bit different. I tend to do mostly down, unless it's a really fast song. I don't think I could play Barracuda without up/down strumming, and it feels natural with that rythm on that song.
Up strums do sound different than down. and sometimes (can't think of an example at the moment) even a lone chord can be an up strum, and it sounds obviously so. Wish I could think of the song....

[rockabillybaby]

It would kill my arm if I only strummed in one direction. You have to work half as hard if you strum in both directions.

[Longjoneill4]

So you guys are alternate strumming on power chords? I thought that was a no no. In fact that has been one of my problems when leveling up. I alternate pick the single notes and all of a sudden they turn into power chords and then I strum down only.

[The_Penguin222]

So you guys are alternate strumming on power chords?.

Only the really fast ones

[C.Linton]

It's really a situational thing. Mostly you want to do alternate picking to facilitate speed, but occassionally you will want to do up or downstrokes to accentuate certain parts of songs in different ways. Once you become familiar with the subtle differences, you will be able to determine when and where you can change up. Like most of the subtleties involved with music, this comes with practice.

[machine932]

I alt strum with the pixies song, the 3rd cord set? E->bar-cord->Bar-cord. it sounds correct to me?

[PRS_Rocker]

There is no right answer. It's generally given that you use down strokes on power chords, but if someone says that's ALWAYS the case, they are naive. If you're trying to get through the game, then use whatever works. If you're trying to make this a lesson, then use down strokes. There is a trick to all fast guitar playing, and it's a lot more common sense than you might think. Ever watch somebody like Satrianni or Vai rip through a solo and you're thinking, "How is he doing that? He's barely moving his fingers!" Well, that's how he's doing it: Economy of motion. If you're hurting your hand or wrist playing fast down-strokes, you are probably tense or not warmed up. Like anything else, take some time and practice strumming the same chords slowly. Then move into playing faster. Even lightning fast players like Li from Dragon Force take the time to warm up before trying to flurry through parts, and these folks have been playing for years. Hetfield (Metallica) is a down picking phenom, but do you think he picks up his guitar and just starts wailing? It's no different from someone who is running, lifting, or pitching. You have to warm up.

[Longjoneill4]

OK, alternate strumming is a game changer! On Go With the Flow Combo, my arm would ache so badly that I could barely finish the song. Now I'm totally relaxed and can easily break 100K for the first time. :cool:

[AltPanic17]

all downstrokes?

[Steel_Nirvana]

For me the question isn't whether to use alternate picking, it's whether I have any reason not to.

[Longjoneill4]

I saw on an online lesson before I got Rocksmith that you should only strum down on power chords. I don't recall whether it was Justinguitar or not, but that is where I usually went for guitar lessons. On Go With the Flow at least, it sounds fine to alternate strum.

[cthauber]

Power chords generally don't quite sound right when alt-strummed, which is why it is often said to only downstrum power chords.
Generally, when alt-strumming chords, you hit all strings on the 'down' strum, but only the first 2-3 (high e to g/purple, green, orange) strings on the 'up' strum, so they do sound different.
And, with most power chords, you ignore the first three strings, so by the 'typical' technique, you would already be missing the power chord strings on the up strum anyway.

[sykokanesh]

I'll go ahead and throw in my 2 cents on the subject (played guitar near 20 years now, if that makes any difference) - It all depends on the song and the sound you are trying to make. Using only down-picking has a heavier and more rhythmic sound to it. Percussive one could say. This is good for "Heavy Metal" (as someone mentioned, James Hetfield immediately jumps to mind), especially for the rhythm guys in metal, because they're accenuating the beat along with the drum.

"Up-down strumming," as I've seen it referred to here as, is more of a ... oh... I suppose a "floaty" type of feel to it. You're not trying to be percussive or exact, rather, you're trying to be more "open or expressive" when doing that. It's not to say that you aren't playing to the beat, but generally, if you're strumming, you're finding your own beat inbetween whatever the drums or the bass might be doing.

For example:

If you tried to up/down strum on Master of Puppets, it would be completely obvious to most experienced guitar players. The sound is far removed from the percussive "blat blat blat" of downpicking, and in my opinion, up/down strumming Master of Puppets would make the song waaaaay more difficult to play. I will say though, that when I started playing, I taught myself to play by learning Metallica (at first) and I, probably as a consequence of such, have quite the ear for hearing the difference between strumming and down picking, and I personally favor down-picking over strumming BUT will add that I also realize that some songs (as mentioned above) just simply NEED to be strummed to be expressed properly.

Now, I saw "Go with the Flow" mentioned, and in my opinion, that's very much so a down pick only song. I don't hear any strumming whatsoever in there, just a constant steady rhythm of down-picking.

I would suggest strumming it first, till it's mastered. Then, you slowly start building up your speed until you can easily (and SAFELY, don't screw up your muscles and tendons!) play the whole song with nothing but down-picking. Believe me, there is a lot of satisfaction to be had there.

I'd like to say more, but since I'm at work awaiting a meeting and this is my first post, I'll leave it at this for now. If you cannot down-pick an entire song, DON'T FORCE IT. It's a muscle thing, it'll take time, but soon you'll find that you can even out down-pick James Hetfield playing Master of Puppets live back in his prime. And brother, that's a good feeling!

[rockabillybaby]

I'll go ahead and throw in my 2 cents on the subject (played guitar near 20 years now, if that makes any difference) - It all depends on the song and the sound you are trying to make. Using only down-picking has a heavier and more rhythmic sound to it. Percussive one could say. This is good for "Heavy Metal" (as someone mentioned, James Hetfield immediately jumps to mind), especially for the rhythm guys in metal, because they're accenuating the beat along with the drum.

"Up-down strumming," as I've seen it referred to here as, is more of a ... oh... I suppose a "floaty" type of feel to it. You're not trying to be percussive or exact, rather, you're trying to be more "open or expressive" when doing that. It's not to say that you aren't playing to the beat, but generally, if you're strumming, you're finding your own beat inbetween whatever the drums or the bass might be doing.

For example:

If you tried to up/down strum on Master of Puppets, it would be completely obvious to most experienced guitar players. The sound is far removed from the percussive "blat blat blat" of downpicking, and in my opinion, up/down strumming Master of Puppets would make the song waaaaay more difficult to play. I will say though, that when I started playing, I taught myself to play by learning Metallica (at first) and I, probably as a consequence of such, have quite the ear for hearing the difference between strumming and down picking, and I personally favor down-picking over strumming BUT will add that I also realize that some songs (as mentioned above) just simply NEED to be strummed to be expressed properly.

Now, I saw "Go with the Flow" mentioned, and in my opinion, that's very much so a down pick only song. I don't hear any strumming whatsoever in there, just a constant steady rhythm of down-picking.

I would suggest strumming it first, till it's mastered. Then, you slowly start building up your speed until you can easily (and SAFELY, don't screw up your muscles and tendons!) play the whole song with nothing but down-picking. Believe me, there is a lot of satisfaction to be had there.

I'd like to say more, but since I'm at work awaiting a meeting and this is my first post, I'll leave it at this for now. If you cannot down-pick an entire song, DON'T FORCE IT. It's a muscle thing, it'll take time, but soon you'll find that you can even out down-pick James Hetfield playing Master of Puppets live back in his prime. And brother, that's a good feeling!
Precisely. There is always a reason for a certain type of strumming. Find what works best and run with it.

[Longjoneill4]

Well you have 20 years experience, and I have almost 20 weeks experience, so I believe you. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

[sykokanesh]

Happy to help! Great game too, though I'll admit I would like to see more technical items; Tool (polyrhythm FTW), Metallica, Slayer (though having to tune down a half step might be a bit much) - that sort of thing.

[The_Penguin222]

Power chords generally don't quite sound right when alt-strummed, which is why it is often said to only downstrum power chords.

Have fun on Barracuda :) :)

[Steel_Nirvana]

I'd certainly disagree with the notion that only by using all downstrokes can one maintain time. Alternate picking is more rhythmic and less percussive, true, but if done correctly it's not about being all over the beat and off time. :rolleyes:

[cthauber]

Have fun on Barracuda :) :)

I never said 'always', just in general.

Usually any type of 'gallop' (16th/16th/8th) will be ideally alt-strummed.
Have Barracuda almost mastered - just need a bit more work on solo's

[sykokanesh]

I never said 'always', just in general.

Usually any type of 'gallop' (16th/16th/8th) will be ideally alt-strummed.
Have Barracuda almost mastered - just need a bit more work on solo's

I'd certainly disagree with the notion that only by using all downstrokes can one maintain time. Alternate picking is more rhythmic and less percussive, true, but if done correctly it's not about being all over the beat and off time.

Oh surely. It's not necessarily "keeping time" as far as the downpicking goes. It's more to accenuate what time is being kept and to accenuate the beat of the bass drum, or snare, whichever it may be. It's one of those sorts of ineffable qualities you come to "realize" one day after a whole lot of guitar playing. I tried to term it as "floaty" only as a way to describe what I see in my head I suppose, as far as strumming (up/down) is concerned. It's not off beat, but it's not exactly played on each 4/4 (since that's the usual timing) hit either. It's ... "out there," you feel it when you play it and you have to feel it to play it. You can't fake strumming on something like that Radiohead song and have it sound just like 'em. You just gotta have the idea of what they're trying to do musically, understand it, then turn right around and play it back.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, on that radio head song (I'll have to recheck that) I believe that a good chunk of the time the 2nd E that's played is actually UP stroked slowly after the initial DOWN stroke "hit."

As for "galloping (I call it that too)" or trilling or whatever one may refer to it as; yeah, you aren't really going to be able to down-stroke Barracuda and have it sound right at all, if you can even manage to downpick that fast in the end. I know I sure as hell can't get that sort of speed down-picking and even if I did, I'd be worn out by the 2nd verse. Play smart first, then play big afterward.

[Steel_Nirvana]

Yeah, sorry, but I'm throwing the BS flag again. You're still saying that alternate picking can't be used on the beat, but is some ethereal thing used for other purposes. That's simply not true. Alternate picking is just a smoother way to do the same thing when playing on the beat, or an easier way to add a swing or other cadence-accentuating flourish. You can play different rhythms with downstrokes, too...it's just not as easy. Technique and timing are independent variables.

[sykokanesh]

Yeah, sorry, but I'm throwing the BS flag again. You're still saying that alternate picking can't be used on the beat, but is some ethereal thing used for other purposes. That's simply not true. Alternate picking is just a smoother way to do the same thing when playing on the beat, or an easier way to add a swing or other cadence-accentuating flourish. You can play different rhythms with downstrokes, too...it's just not as easy. Technique and timing are independent variables.

Well, as I said, it's an ineffable quality (at least for me) - I intuitively understand what it is I'm trying to describe but having some difficulty imparting the understanding with words as evidenced by the fact that you are somehow both misunderstanding me, yet also reinforcing what I'm trying to say: "Alternate picking is just a smoother way to do the same thing when playing on the beat, or an easier way to add a swing or other cadence-accentuating flourish." (I dunno about smoother, but to each his or her own) - that's basically what I'm saying.

Downpicking is typically; one might say almost exclusively, used for highly percussive/rhythmic purposes whereas strumming is typically not so wrapped up in that as it is about moving the song along with an expressive flair.

I'm not quite sure why you might think that I'm trying to bull**** anyone here, I'm not. I'm simply describing what I've noticed by and large in the music industry when it comes to certain techniques being used.

[Steel_Nirvana]

Well, the part about if you want to play in time, you have to use downstrokes is sort of odd, and pretty non-standard. The thing I find, er, inaccurate, is trying to say alternate picking isn't about being on the beat. Maybe, like you say, it's just a disconnect between what you're trying to say and the words you're using to say it. I actually agree with everything you say except the part about only using downstrokes if you're playing on the beat.

Oh, and sorry for the confusion: "throw the BS flag" is just a phrase to indicate disagreement...it's not usually meant in a hostile way. ;)

[sykokanesh]

Well, the part about if you want to play in time, you have to use downstrokes is sort of odd, and pretty non-standard. The thing I find, er, inaccurate, is trying to say alternate picking isn't about being on the beat. Maybe, like you say, it's just a disconnect between what you're trying to say and the words you're using to say it. I actually agree with everything you say except the part about only using downstrokes if you're playing on the beat.

Oh, and sorry for the confusion: "throw the BS flag" is just a phrase to indicate disagreement...it's not usually meant in a hostile way. ;)


No worries there man, just trying to make sure I'm being clear. I wasn't trying to give strict steps in usage, but rather explain what I understand is the underlying methodology employed when using a given technique, at least as far as those two are concerned and as far as I understand them personally.

[Steel_Nirvana]

We're probably in violent agreement, then, but coming at it from opposite directions.

[sykokanesh]

lol! I can dig it brother-man.