"Grenades bounce off Aegis Shield" ???

[gomifune]

Closed Beta Phase 2 Changes
Game Version: 0.5.5


In-Game Changes



Grenades bounce off Aegis Shield now making the ability more resilient.




change log (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/656939-Game-change-Log)

I hear we have some Devs on the forum now, care to explain this? Nade was one of the only viable counters.

[JohnoBurr]

I noticed that as well. I don't think the already most resilient ability needs to be any more resilient. Looks like running in and shooting them or melee is the only option now (other than blackout).

[cra2yazn]

Guess that means the Assault will have to hand off the "Assault" role to the Specialist now XD. I guess I'll have to bust out the HEAT now after all. Strange though that the AEGIS gets a buff enough though the community rarely talks about it and HEAT which the community has been begging for to be made useful gets no change.

[Creepermoss]

*Shrugs* The Aegis is cool, bouncing nades makes it cooler, but nothing will replace my Blackout.

[JoshHardenburg]

WOW! Is this for real... Aegis is already IMO the strongest ability in the game, Pinktaco is right, assaults need to be renamed supports, because atm our team heal regan is all we are good for. I only play assault because I like the gun pool and hp, but I think I will be becoming a specialist. The only reason people do not play specialists is because they dislike LMG's/Shotguns not because of their ability's (both of which where by far 100x better then the assaults.) Heck I was calling for a Aegis Nerf! I feel even though you move slow in it, it lasts way to long once upgraded. An even un upgraded it felt like it lasted forever.

I really think this needs to be looked at again, grenades where the only viable option vs. the shield, unless you snuk up behind them. I agree adjustments need to be made to Aegis but this is a BIG step in the wrong direction.

[suprhero]

Aegis is not OP, you move so slow. stay in cover take another route. only Stubborn people get caught in an Aegis Path. i mean really? a guy that moved 1 mile an hour is OP? cmon Get smart.

I would really like to know what about Splash Damage? does it cover you from that? can i hit a wall a guy is standing close too and kill em with the Splash?

[JoshHardenburg]

Aegis is not OP, you move so slow. stay in cover take another route. only Stubborn people get caught in an Aegis Path. i mean really? a guy that moved 1 mile an hour is OP? cmon Get smart.

I would really like to know what about Splash Damage? does it cover you from that? can i hit a wall a guy is standing close too and kill em with the Splash?

I don't think it's OP, I just think it needs refine meant. as it stands, the only way to counter Aegis now is to run away... Or suicide and try to get inside the bubble. If a person is using the cover system and a guy pops Aegis 20 feet from him what is he going to do if his ability is on CD? Pop out of cover and die? Stay in cover and wait to die? How do you counter this ability if you can't throw nades at them?????

I personally think Aegis should take some sort of durability damage when shot at. when someone shoots at the Aegis, it should decrease the duration of the ability. I think it is dumb that 1 guy can take on a whole team, So if Aegis took damage then that whole team would be able to focus and shut down the bubble. Note I'm not talking crazy durability damage from the bullets, it would still take a whole crap ton to turn it off, but that would be for the devs to figure out. =P

[KegaroOne]

You can now just refer to me and my lvl 20 Specialist as UBERTANK!!!! muwahahahaha!!!!

[Creepermoss]

The only way to counter is to run away? That's your problem right there. The Aegis requires you to move close to counter, not away. Also, Blackout. I don't use the Aegis at all, because I feel it's the weaker of the two abilities. Soundplay is a big part of this game, the different abilities make different sounds, if you hear a charging Aegis near you, either charge him or leave. He has 7 other people to shoot at, unless you make yourself a target, he won't be able to shoot you.

A person in their bubble is still at a disadvantage to you, speed wise. Take cover, or vacate before he kills you. Or, sprint past him and right click to drop a nade inside his shield, chances are he can't move fast enough to get away.

I completely forgot about HEAT. If it works the way it should, zap the guy in his shield. Now his gun doesn't work. Booyah.

Combat, much like GRO, requires changing your tactics as the situation dictates. "A species that cannot adapt will die out to a species that can".

[gameshoes]

The only way to counter is to run away? That's your problem right there. The Aegis requires you to move close to counter, not away.
Bingo. Many people still pop out of cover for some odd reason and feel that they can penetrate the Aegis and just die.
But really, unless if you had made your presence known before, you can just sit in cover and the enemies may just pass you.
Also if your presence is known, you can just sit in cover once again and wait for the Aegis to pass over you so that you can fire. However if the Specialist decides to deviate slightly to make sure you're not in the Aegis, they've wasted time for a teammate to kill him or just made time for you to escape.

[Arad1]

Keep the feedback coming everyone. We're interested in your opinions.

[Creepermoss]

The issue to me is: impact grenades. Does your favored ability have a No-cooldown, instant-kill, usable-twice-per-life-by-every-opposing-player disability to it? The Aegis does (or did, anyways). It makes you too slow to avoid even most well thrown timed grenades. So it goes: pop Aegis, get immediately naded from at least one player, restart your Aegis' cooldown. Real useful ability, huh? I feel this will improve teamwork, as there is no longer the ez-mode Aegis killer, you'll actually have to use *gasp* tactics and teamwork now!!!

[JoshHardenburg]

Bingo. Many people still pop out of cover for some odd reason and feel that they can penetrate the Aegis and just die.
But really, unless if you had made your presence known before, you can just sit in cover and the enemies may just pass you.
Also if your presence is known, you can just sit in cover once again and wait for the Aegis to pass over you so that you can fire. However if the Specialist decides to deviate slightly to make sure you're not in the Aegis, they've wasted time for a teammate to kill him or just made time for you to escape.

I agree with this, however good Specialists will not die with Aegis up unless naded, so they will not allow you to get in there bubble and they WILL kill you because they are not bad.(like you beef) so they will not only kill you but they will kill your teammate if hes close by.

RUNNING/HIDING become the most viable and safe options. IDK what you are talking about, get closer to a guy with a LMG who is spraying bullets since hes most likely in the open and walking at you. When I see a Aegis I leave, I want nothing to do with that person till the bubble is gone, I do not want to be pro and some how dolphin dive into his bubble to kill him... If he Knows you are behind a piece of cover, your ability is on cooldown, what do you do? A. Run B. Hide C. Charge. A.If hes good you can't run or if you can you have a very small window B.If hes good he will know you are there and walk upon you, he will not allow you to get into his bubble and you will die. Your only chance becomes laying on the ground prone and crawl shooting him as he gets a angle on you. C.If hes good then you will not be able to simply walk into his bubble and say hello...... If you can he is not good.

IDK I could go on and on, Tell me how a oracle recon counters a Aegis? At least with every other ability their is a way to kill the person without suiciding yourself.

[gameshoes]

At least with every other ability their is a way to kill the person without suiciding yourself.
Unless if the cir****tances are perfect, using Heat -with hopes of help from a teammate- is rather risky.

Who's the roundest knight as King Arthur's table?
cirCUMference

Hmmm..... didn't censor that. I guess it needs an S
****

[Creepermoss]

ANY good player uses his strengths to their fullest. Getting closer while remaining safe is the key. Running across open ground to get to him is suicide, I agree. Thing is, no-one can cover 360 degrees around themselves at all times. Ask a flanking teammate to draw his attention, and dash in when he turns. Rush him in pairs. IDK, but exposing yourself is a bad idea.

And I'd do D) stay in cover and let him push his bubble past me, then unload from within it, or, drop a nade and flee, his focus will shift to trying to evade rather than shooting you, and you still have the speed to exit the nade's blast radius.. And an oracle recon is rarely up close enough to be threatened by his less than accurate LMG.

[JoshHardenburg]

Unless if the cir****tances are perfect, using Heat -with hopes of help from a teammate- is rather risky.

Who's the roundest knight as King Arthur's table?
cirCUMference

Hmmm..... didn't censor that. I guess it needs an S
****

Yes, but I'm talking about if your ability is on CD. What do you do if you can't even through a nade. ***Oh and even when nades where able to kill the bubble, you still needed to have them! I throw so many nades sometimes that they run out fast. I'm saving my rp for other things besides nades so I dont buy them either.


Honestly I was going to spend my 10k rp on a ACR SV. But I think I may just role a Specialist and gear him out, and piss a ton of people off with this bubble. (I need to get fraps or something to record it :p )


***edit
editx2: I could not leave ACR SV lower case. lol

[chemzero]

Where is Stylez?? I have to tell him this fantastic news :) He'll be so happy to know my bubble got buffed :D

[TheFragacide]

I dunno, Chem. I sent him a friend request a while back, but he's not even accepted it.
But I highly disagree with this... I'm a sniper, what the hell do you expect me to do against aegis now?
I think it was fine how it was. Even if you could toss nades into it, you still had to pop out for a second to do so.
If the enemy recon is doing their jobs, you should be dead before you can get the chance.
Besides, Chem, you know stlylez will just blackout your bubble and we'll all target you anyway. :)
Then Jace comes in with his bubble and *whoops* no more "Team Chemzero"
(This is why I have the two best specialists on my team.)
BTW: I'm still recruiting for assaults. I've got the best specialists and recons on my team, but I forgot to look for a good blitzer. XD

[JoshHardenburg]

Where is Stylez?? I have to tell him this fantastic news :) He'll be so happy to know my bubble got buffed :D

I want to make a party of all Specialists, think about it chem, a party of 8 all Specialists consisting of: Kegaro, Stylez, PinkTaco, ChemZero, Merlox, Toniic, Infidius, Typhoon.

The rule for this team would be, No one is allowed to leave the single bubble that is up, one by one each of us rotates Aegis, we can only move while in the one Aegis bubble, if everyone's Aegis is on CD then we must hold the area we are until our CD's are done.

This sounds OP and yet very fun lol.

[TheFragacide]

I want to make a party of all Specialists, think about it chem, a party of 8 all Specialists consisting of: Kegaro, Stylez, PinkTaco, ChemZero, Merlox, Toniic, Infidius, Typhoon.

The rule for this team would be, No one is allowed to leave the single bubble that is up, one by one each of us rotates Aegis, we can only move while in the one Aegis bubble, if everyone's Aegis is on CD then we must hold the area we are until our CD's are done.

This sounds OP and yet very fun lol.

Only one problem with that. If I've learned anything about stylez, he plays fair and hates cheap tricks (sort of)
That, and good luck getting him to replace his EMP. lol That'll never happen.

[Creepermoss]

Sounds like a great opportunity for an octo-nade to me. And I'm pretty sure at least one of those folks mains assault, not spec.

[Creepermoss]

I dunno, Chem. I sent him a friend request a while back, but he's not even accepted it.
But I highly disagree with this... I'm a sniper, what the hell do you expect me to do against aegis now?
I think it was fine how it was. Even if you could toss nades into it, you still had to pop out for a second to do so.
If the enemy recon is doing their jobs, you should be dead before you can get the chance.
Besides, Chem, you know stlylez will just blackout your bubble and we'll all target you anyway. :)
Then Jace comes in with his bubble and *whoops* no more "Team Chemzero"
(This is why I have the two best specialists on my team.)


BTW: I'm still recruiting for assaults. I've got the best specialists and recons on my team, but I forgot to look for a good blitzer. XD

Yeah, we've all been in matches with your stacked team. Kind of a mean thing to do, tbh.

[JoshHardenburg]

Sounds like a great opportunity for an octo-nade to me. And I'm pretty sure at least one of those folks mains assault, not spec.

Grenades do not go threw Aegis remember. >=)

And having a team of people that are not bad is not mean. I hate being frustrated in a game because my team does not have the slightest clue to what they are doing. So I team with people I can count on. Whats wrong with that?

[JoshHardenburg]

Only one problem with that. If I've learned anything about stylez, he plays fair and hates cheap tricks (sort of)
That, and good luck getting him to replace his EMP. lol That'll never happen.

Stylez and emp I can agree with, How is this a cheap trick? This would require team work and communication just to keep the bubble rotation up, besides Aegis is designed for doing what I'm talking about. Aegis invites teammates in for the protection of the bubble, in this case their just so happens to be 8 people that can use Aegis.

[Creepermoss]

Put the nade inside the shield, not "threw" (Grammar nazi moment: I threw a rock through your window) it. And how is pubstomping unorganized teams of new players with some of the best players in the game NOT mean? The fair thing to do would be to split into two groups, and at least give the newer guys a chance.

I say some of, not doubting anyone you mentioned at all, because most of these folks have been around for more than just phase 1, and are high on the leaderboards. I managed to crack the top 10 specs in the game, by level 15, just in phase 1. And it's a long ways to that #1 spec spot from where I'm at, due in part to the folks that spent more days playing than I have.

I'd wager I could grab Neko, Super, and Johno, and give any group of 4 of you a run for your money. The 8 man faceroll squad seems like it would be better left to clanwars, or organized teams vs teams, for the sake of sportsmanship.

[chemzero]

By far the funniest thing I've seen in testing out the Phase 2 build is [GM]ZeusJones throw and impact grenade at an aegis and having it bounce off and literally explode in his face.

Maybe it was only funny because it was Zeus :P

[Creepermoss]

Lawl, that does sound funny. "i'm gonna nade you, sucka!"................BOOM............."What was that? You're gonna nade who now?" I hope you trolled him viciously afterwards :P

[chemzero]

Lawl, that does sound funny. "i'm gonna nade you, sucka!"................BOOM............."What was that? You're gonna nade who now?" I hope you trolled him viciously afterwards :P

It may or may not have involved a small pouch of full leaf tea.

No comment.

[JoshHardenburg]

First of all, the team thing was a joke/example of how powerful the bubble is going to be now. 2nd the only way you could manage to get a nade inside a meatgrinder Aegis like I described, would be to EMP or use another ability to ninja your way inside.

I'm horrible with grammar/English. Autocorrect saves my ****ON! lol

[Creepermoss]

Yep, like the cloak. Or an alternative route, such as from behind, or down from above, if a window is present. Or even a baseball slide/nade combo, I'd give my life to get the first 8-kill nade, wouldn't you?

Also, this IS still beta, if it turns out it's too powerful, or unbalanced, they still have time to fix it.


And LOL @ "a small pouch of full leaf tea", if it means what I took it to mean.

[TheFragacide]

I'm sorry about the facerolling, but we play competitively. We didn't like losing.
I'd hardly say the teams were stacked, we just had more practice and worked well together.
Wait till live, I'm sure we'll meet our match. Until then, we'll keep practicing.
We were there at the beginning of phase 1 like everybody else, and we didn't group together until day 2 when i started inviting everybody.
(BTW: When will we get our 8 man teams? My team and taco's team needs to group up and roflstomp the field!)

[Creepermoss]

The issue is: no-one wants to lose, and competitive implies the other team has a chance. And I know for a fact that some of you were around before phase 1, the gap between #3 and #1 "players emp'd" alone makes a strong case. This is from the last day of phase 1.
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab21/BigDirt13/Yeti_Release2012-03-1619-46-00-10.jpg

[JohnoBurr]

I'd wager I could grab Neko, Super, and Johno, and give any group of 4 of you a run for your money. The 8 man faceroll squad seems like it would be better left to clanwars, or organized teams vs teams, for the sake of sportsmanship.

I say we give that a go for sure.

[chemzero]

Yep, like the cloak. Or an alternative route, such as from behind, or down from above, if a window is present. Or even a baseball slide/nade combo, I'd give my life to get the first 8-kill nade, wouldn't you?

Also, this IS still beta, if it turns out it's too powerful, or unbalanced, they still have time to fix it.


And LOL @ "a small pouch of full leaf tea", if it means what I took it to mean.

I can neither confirm nor deny.

>.>
<.<

[TheFragacide]

That's only because Stylez LOVED his EMP. That's why we were joking about him not dropping it.
Your picture only goes to prove how useful he was as a specialist.
I promise you, we started at day 1 of phase 1. The leaderboards only reflect phase 1.
We played pretty hard, and over the entire course of the beta we lost only 10-15 times, and when we did, we were severely sore about it.
Trust me, I understand your feelings, but I wouldn't lie.
I kept up with Stylez neck and neck on levels, but I missed a day so he jumped ahead of me. That's how I know he didn't start before me.

[JoshHardenburg]

The issue is: no-one wants to lose, and competitive implies the other team has a chance. And I know for a fact that some of you were around before phase 1, the gap between #3 and #1 "players emp'd" alone makes a strong case. This is from the last day of phase 1.]

I'm 95% sure, that Stylez just uses emp that much lol.

Also I love competitive games! When I know my team is solid. Sometimes I feel the only reason the game is competitive is because of 1 or 2 people carrying everyone else in their backpack though. But when you got even skilled players on both teams it can be a blast! Plus competitive games yield way more exp/rp.

[TheFragacide]

I'm 95% sure, that Stylez just uses emp that much lol.

Also I love competitive games! When I know my team is solid. Sometimes I feel the only reason the game is competitive is because of 1 or 2 people carrying everyone else in their backpack though. But when you got even skilled players on both teams it can be a blast! Plus competitive games yield way more exp/rp.

That they do.
I dunno how many times my "Steamroll team" would come across bad games because of one or two people who didn't know what they were doing, where-as there wasn't a single person on the other team without a respectable K/D or cap point score. 5 out of 8 of us would be about 1000 at the end of the game, where-as the slackers were below 500, and the other team's worst player would be over 1200. It got very tiresome, as some of us can't bear the weight of those dead weight free-loaders.

[JoshHardenburg]

Ya it's just a player population/noobie problem atm, once GR:O goes live and has a larger player base, the game will be lopsided in favor of skilled players.

[Creepermoss]

Be that as it may, you cannot honestly believe you're competitive, when not matched vs players of the same level/skill. If I put an NFL allstar team, up against a team of random, decent players, is that a competitive environment? Not even close.

If there was any form of matchmaking, you'd just sit in que all day, as there are NO other groups with that many skilled players grouped. Period. Just the fact that you only lost 10-15 games in a week + proves how much of an advantage you have.

[TheFragacide]

Be that as it may, you cannot honestly believe you're competitive, when not matched vs players of the same level/skill. If I put an NFL allstar team, up against a team of random, decent players, is that a competitive environment? Not even close.

If there was any form of matchmaking, you'd just sit in que all day, as there are NO other groups with that many skilled players grouped. Period. Just the fact that you only lost 10-15 games in a week + proves how much of an advantage you have.

You're basing all of that solely on the games you played against us. For some games, it was no competition, but there were matches that made us sweat a bit.
You shouldn't feel bad just because we had a nice group. There's no reason anybody couldn't of done the same.
Pinktaco and Vengenz got together and made their own group at the end, and we found ourselves forfeiting to them on many occasions.
It's all about teamwork, and if you don't have a good team that communicates, then you will get rolled on every time.
That's part of the reason a mic was a requirement in order to join our team.

[JoshHardenburg]

Be that as it may, you cannot honestly believe you're competitive, when not matched vs players of the same level/skill. If I put an NFL allstar team, up against a team of random, decent players, is that a competitive environment? Not even close.

If there was any form of matchmaking, you'd just sit in que all day, as there are NO other groups with that many skilled players grouped. Period. Just the fact that you only lost 10-15 games in a week + proves how much of an advantage you have.

I agree with you, but you have to remember that in any game, the good players tend to try an create friends lists of just good players, people don't like to lose which is understandable, So while what you say holds up in close beta, when GR:O goes live the player pool will change drastically, their will be TONS of teams, so when it comes to matchmaking hopefully their is a team vs. team priority.

The way I see it is too be the best, you have to play with and against the best. So surrounding myself with players I feel are as good or better them me only helps increase my skill and knowledge of the game.

[Noviwan]

AEGIS has more counters than any other ability. Can be countered with:

Blackout
Another AEGIS
Heat
Cloak (let's you get inside the shield)
Blitz

[Roby-Wan]

Adding to Noviwan comments...... Internally our play tests got to a point where deploying the Aegis was a death sentence due to the massive grenade spam it attracted. The net result, some of our best specialists either stopped using Aegis, wouldn't use it to help their team push, or converted to another class. Yes I agree that on paper it looks a OP but we are looking forward to seeing how it actually affect the tactics in phase 2 and are eagerly awaiting your feedback and videos. :)

As for Heat needing a buff, we know and are working on it. :) In its previous form it was one of the most powerful abilities in the game but was pounded into the ground with a nerf bat and now its getting some quality TLC.

[gameshoes]

The issue is: no-one wants to lose, and competitive implies the other team has a chance. And I know for a fact that some of you were around before phase 1, the gap between #3 and #1 "players emp'd" alone makes a strong case. This is from the last day of phase 1.
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab21/BigDirt13/Yeti_Release2012-03-1619-46-00-10.jpg

How dare you take my #3 spot!

[gameshoes]

Adding to Noviwan comments...... Internally our play tests got to a point where deploying the Aegis was a death sentence due to the massive grenade spam it attracted. The net result, some of our best specialists either stopped using Aegis, wouldn't use it to help their team push, or converted to another class. Yes I agree that on paper it looks a OP but we are looking forward to seeing how it actually affect the tactics in phase 2 and are eagerly awaiting your feedback and videos. :)

As for Heat needing a buff, we know and are working on it. :) In its previous form it was one of the most powerful abilities in the game but was pounded into the ground with a nerf bat and now its getting some quality TLC.
Thanks for letting us know!
And please do consider addressing some Blitz issues that I mentioned in this thread:
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/662931-How-to-avoid-Blitz-easily-and-some-improvement-suggestions

[Creepermoss]

Adding to Noviwan comments...... Internally our play tests got to a point where deploying the Aegis was a death sentence due to the massive grenade spam it attracted. The net result, some of our best specialists either stopped using Aegis, wouldn't use it to help their team push, or converted to another class. Yes I agree that on paper it looks a OP but we are looking forward to seeing how it actually affect the tactics in phase 2 and are eagerly awaiting your feedback and videos. :)

As for Heat needing a buff, we know and are working on it. :) In its previous form it was one of the most powerful abilities in the game but was pounded into the ground with a nerf bat and now its getting some quality TLC.


This. Exactly why I switched over to blackout at like level 5. And yeah, I get wanting to play with folks you know you can rely on. Nothing sucks more than the guy watching your flank being useless.

@gameshoes, you mean MY #3 spot? :rolleyes: Tee hee

[KegaroOne]

That screenshot can't be from the last day... It says I am only level 18 and I was level 20 on the last day of phase1.

But holy crap... I EMP'd 98 people... lol... I hardly ever used Blackout.

[DracoFilia]

To add on to the devspeak, the AEGIS actually has a weakness in that its duration is greatly reduced when fired upon. The best weapons for the job are the high DPS ones. A tactic I like to use to weaken the AEGIS is to hammer at it when the enemy isn't pointing their guns right at me. It's amusing to see it go down when everyone in the scan field thinks they're safe, and then a grenade lands in their midst...

[KegaroOne]

To add on to the devspeak, the AEGIS actually has a weakness in that its duration is greatly reduced when fired upon. The best weapons for the job are the high DPS ones. A tactic I like to use to weaken the AEGIS is to hammer at it when the enemy isn't pointing their guns right at me.

Noooooooooooooo.... he's divulging trade secrets!!! Nobody needs to be reading this information.

The post above does not exist... It's a figment of your imagination... None of this information is factual... Forget what you have read. :P

[cra2yazn]

The issue to me is: impact grenades. Does your favored ability have a No-cooldown, instant-kill, usable-twice-per-life-by-every-opposing-player disability to it? The Aegis does (or did, anyways). It makes you too slow to avoid even most well thrown timed grenades. So it goes: pop Aegis, get immediately naded from at least one player, restart your Aegis' cooldown. Real useful ability, huh? I feel this will improve teamwork, as there is no longer the ez-mode Aegis killer, you'll actually have to use *gasp* tactics and teamwork now!!!

Tats the case wit all the other abilities y is AEGIS special? I personally have no hatred for AEGIS but tat point makes no sense. Can i ask that Blitz be buffed then so that it takes no forward damage at all or damage from nades? Every ability can be shut down immediately y does AEGIS get a free pass?

[Creepermoss]

I actually think the blitz should prevent all incoming damage that doesn't go above the shield. I also think that a good trade off for the Aegis would be to allow grenades to pass through, but let the Aegis wielder to sprint for short distances while under bubble.

And since pouring on the firepower shuts it down faster, it's not as beefy as I thought it was. A few LMG's or AR's focus firing could easily leave the Aegis user in a bad spot. Good example of teamwork, too. Guy with the nade asks for heavy fire on the shield, and waits to toss the nade.

[JoshHardenburg]

AEGIS has more counters than any other ability. Can be countered with:

Blackout
Another AEGIS
Heat
Cloak (let's you get inside the shield)
Blitz


I agree 100% with PinkTaco.

While these abilities can be counters, they are also cooldowns, what if your ability has a long CD and its on CD? The only option's that become available like i said earlier are run,hide,charge. At least with other abilities their are ways to kill the person other then using a ability.

IMO abilities should be used depending on your situation. My best example would be Heat; Heat is the most situational ability of them all, it has a start up time so it must be deployed before stepping into the open, You walk slow as dirt, can not shoot, and become a very easy target for that persons teammates to kill. So when you go to use Heat you better be aware of who is able to kill you in the immediate vicinity or you will die. Aegis now only has 2 weakness besides other abilities, walking slow, and bubble time duration. I like Taco's Blitz statement, If a nade in a bubble is a problem, then Blitz should be impossible to kill from the front, Heat should melt any long range bullets that enters its frontal cone, an after taking a few seconds to try and include recons abilities I just can't think of any buffs lol...

Oh and like I said in a previous post, how would a oracle using SMG recon deal with Aegis? This is a super hard counter to that class IMO.

[Doombringer777]

To me, this is the worst possible thing they could have done to the AEGIS. A bubble shield that is mobile, can hold your entire team, and can be shot out of but absolutely nothing can be shot into that can be used to go on a one man killing spree (like it is the majority of the time I saw it in use) is already pushing the boundary of being OP, but making the grenades, the only ranged defense against an invincible walking parade of LMG's is terrible. The way I thought would be better to make it balanced is to makee it so it does not deflect all bullets, but around 65-70% of the bullets of sustained gunfire, "sniper" rounds reduced to around 30-50% damage, and allow it to bounce grenades. I don't care if it is the future, but there is no way that something would be able to continually take a rapid beating of objects meant to penetrate that each have a fairly large amount of kinetic force, or be able to stop a high-caliber, high velocity rifle round, but would be able to deflect grenades with ease.

This would make it so the Support (who usually only goes alone, a point which I will bring up in a second) and his teammates don't basically get the gold star from Mario and gain the ability to rush into a well established enemy position and pretty much be unstoppable from anywhere but point blank range. Not to mention a point blank range retaliation will only be successful if the support doesn't see them first or else the non-support will be gunned down by the support who is able to do a wide turn and stay out of range of the enemy around the corner who will no longer have cover. Changing it the way I said would support more team-oriented play because it would allow a team group to advance closer to the point they're trying to reach in a safer environment. Not to mention that the more teammates you bring in the bubble, the more miniscule the damage taken by each advancing player would be since the fire would not be concentrated on one person, as it would be if the support used it alone to go on a killing spree like it is used the majority of the time now where as the change I suggested would most likely see him gunned down, creating a balanced, team-oriented ability that is worthy to be under the "support" class.

[TheFragacide]

I mean, it was OP before. With Jace running in first on the bridge of moscow city and blowing his bubble, we could all sit there and clean up the opposing team.
As soon as it went down, we killed them as they came through the door.
It was funny and I felt kinda bad for it, but now you're saying that their only defense against this is now gone?
You realize that that map will become basically a competition to see who's specialist gets to the bridge and blows his aegis.
This will make capturing that point an even more tedious task then it already is.

[chemzero]

If AEGIS proves to be overpowered, I'm sure our devs will fix it. Towards the end of phase 1 I started using Blackout more because once people got the RP built up to stockpile grenades, my Aegis would last about 2 seconds before I exploded. So I can see the motivation for the change.

[TheFragacide]

I can understand it too, but like I said, they're going to have to pop their heads out to throw that nade, and if my team was in a position to throw up an AEGIS then we should be able to kill him before he gets the throw off.
Personally, I'll camp a good 30 feet behind the AEGIS in line of sight from the enemy, then snipe through it. It's a great support for my teammates, and it keeps me out of their line of fire.

[Creepermoss]

The only people claiming it's OP are those without the adaptation skills to counter it. I'm not gonna repost the list of effective Aegis counters, There are like 6-10 of them in this thread alone.

Also, the bridge at C has a few good spots where you can throw nades onto the bridge from behind cover, just crouch and walk back a couple of steps from the window on either side.

[chemzero]

I can understand it too, but like I said, they're going to have to pop their heads out to throw that nade, and if my team was in a position to throw up an AEGIS then we should be able to kill him before he gets the throw off.
Personally, I'll camp a good 30 feet behind the AEGIS in line of sight from the enemy, then snipe through it. It's a great support for my teammates, and it keeps me out of their line of fire.

Not to mention gets me cursing your name :mad:

J/K, you usually get me from behind. I see you pop out of cloak like some ethereal boogieman and then my screen turns red :(

[TheFragacide]

I've always been able to counter it. I've pissed off many a specialist with an impact frag, but when it's well timed, there's no counter. With a sniper like me, a blackout specialist like stylez, and any other class that could be up in that bubble, the person doesn't have a chance at being able to aim and throw without dying.
I know, we tried many times. We took C on Moscow City 90% of the time with that strategy, and any nades that managed to be thrown went way off target due to them not having the time to aim.

[TheFragacide]

Not to mention gets me cursing your name :mad:

J/K, you usually get me from behind. I see you pop out of cloak like some ethereal boogieman and then my screen turns red :(

haha. If I was killing you from behind, it's only because you kept failing your gank.
I liked to stay back and snipe people in the heads, or pop up once, then cloak and move to the side so they're not looking in the right place.
Gives me ALL day to line up that beautiful 236 headshot.
Otherwise, I'd be just on the edge of the capture point using the same tactic.

Besides, I'm sure you cursed the name of everybody on my team more then once. :P

[Doombringer777]

The only people claiming it's OP are those without the adaptation skills to counter it.

Nice dogmatic fallacy, but I'll let that slide for now. What do you think about the balancing I suggested?

[Creepermoss]

I don't think they need to balance anything to make up for your tactical shortcomings, that's what I think (you asked, I gave an honest answer, sorry if it offends you). I play vs Aegis users as much as you do, and again, I have 0 trouble killing them without nades. I've done it as a spec, a recon, and an assault. There are many ways to counter it, it would be OP if there were not. I think superhero's words on his video channel sum up my feelings the best: "OP is a term for under skilled players that cannot overcome and adapt to the situation".

You won't change my mind on this, but if the shield proves to be unstoppable after it's buff, that might. The dev team doesn't seem to think it is, they CHOSE to buff it, but only time will tell.

[Doombringer777]

I don't think they need to balance anything to make up for your tactical shortcomings, that's what I think (you asked, I gave an honest answer, sorry if it offends you). I play vs Aegis users as much as you do, and again, I have 0 trouble killing them without nades. I've done it as a spec, a recon, and an assault. There are many ways to counter it, it would be OP if there were not. I think superhero's words on his video channel sum up my feelings the best: "OP is a term for under skilled players that cannot overcome and adapt to the situation".

You won't change my mind on this, but if the shield proves to be unstoppable after it's buff, that might. The dev team doesn't seem to think it is, they CHOSE to buff it, but only time will tell.

I never said that it was impossible to counter, it's just that many times it isn't. The other think I have to point out is that the point of how I think they should balance it is not because I can't counter it, it is because the proposed changes would promote more tactical and team based gameplay that will balance the ability better with those of the other classes.

Though thanks for actually reading my post. The politeness of this message board is kind of jarring to be honest.

[Creepermoss]

I can see the validity in your arguement, don't get me wrong. I think the only real way to tell if it is or isn't OP will be to actually run against it, and see how much harder it is to break. The fact that it degrades when hit by gunfire makes me think shotguns might be a good way to knock it down quickly, due to how large the shield is, which would almost guarantee that all of the pellets hit it, and the damage output of the shotguns.

[JoshHardenburg]

The politeness of this message board is kind of jarring to be honest.

How is giving direct feedback to the Dev. team pointless?

[gameshoes]

I never said that it was impossible to counter, it's just that many times it isn't.
This is when players need to think on a higher level on when to use their abilities.
I see many Assaults waste their Blitz right out of the spawn just to gain a 1.5 second lead and then they have no way to counter the Aegis.
Abilities need to be used on an Attack/Reaction situation. If the enemy isn't using a ability, you can probably get away with not using yours either - especially on defense.
Now I don't say Attack/Defense because some abilities should be used as a REACTION to others such as Blackout and Blitz. Side note: Blitz does not offer good offensive capabilities. You can search for my old thread about this. Yes, reactions in most cases are viewed as "defense", but you can use reactions to your offense as well.

So yeah, this is where I believe most people find countering the Aegis so difficult.

[gameshoes]

The politeness of this message board is kind of jarring to be honest.
How is giving direct feedback to the Dev. team pointless?
I think you may have horribly misread Doombringer's post.

[Doombringer777]

This is when players need to think on a higher level on when to use their abilities.
I see many Assaults waste their Blitz right out of the spawn just to gain a 1.5 second lead and then they have no way to counter the Aegis.
Abilities need to be used on an Attack/Reaction situation. If the enemy isn't using a ability, you can probably get away with not using yours either - especially on defense.
Now I don't say Attack/Defense because some abilities should be used as a REACTION to others such as Blackout and Blitz. Side note: Blitz does not offer good offensive capabilities. You can search for my old thread about this. Yes, reactions in most cases are viewed as "defense", but you can use reactions to your offense as well.

So yeah, this is where I believe most people find countering the Aegis so difficult.

I realize this, and face-palm every time I see the blitz scenario you're talking about above in game. I always use heat because it promotes greater team work over the pretty much pointless blitz due to it's suppressive capabilities. The fact of the matter is that if the only feasible counter to an ability (flanking around your positions cover that the Aegis is derping towards will expose you to enemy fire 99/100 of the time), not to mention one that almost every person playing support uses that you don't know when they will have it ready, is an ability that not many people use or is also useful in countless other situations and therefore most likely not available to counter the Aegis, then the Aegis is not balanced. It does not promote teamwork on the part of the support, and pretty much actively encourages said support to use it by himself to go on a killing spree, then it is not balanced and does not actively support teamwork. The proposed fix would give greater incentive for supporting your teammates (hence "Support" class) in a game that says it's a tactical, team based game.


How is giving direct feedback to the Dev. team pointless?
Lol. You might want to read what I wrote again, man. Honest mistake though. At least you brightened up my day with a laugh :)

[golf1052]

I love Aegis. I have never used it as I always play SMG aggressive recon but I love Aegis. It allows a team to attempt a push on a point. They can then become the center of attention. Everybody looks at them and either waits it out, runs away, or tries to take the specialist down. If somebody on my team is using it I can get inside it and move closer to the point. Near the end of phase one I started going into Aegis shields and then cloaking and getting behind the enemy as most people were focused on the specialist. If the other team is using it I can cloak right into the bubble if they are not paying attention and take them down. The whole team other team is usually depending on that Aegis to move up into a point and getting rid of it completely destroys their momentum usually. By making grenades bounce off Aegis shields now people will have to be more active in taking down shields and people using shields WILL gain an advantage if they are not stopped. Most abilities are supposed to be "OP" unless you try to stop them. Abilities are supposed to turn the tide in that teams favor unless you actively sacrifice yourself and stop the charge.

[JoshHardenburg]

Lol. You might want to read what I wrote again, man. Honest mistake though. At least you brightened up my day with a laugh :)

Ya I did ">.> I was on my phone in the car trolling while we where driving. :p

[JDCAce]

I'm not sure how to feel about this. Aegis is a very powerful ability, and the ability to reflect grenades only makes it more powerful. There were indeed times when I'd pull up my Aegis and die almost immediately to a grenade, but there were also times I would survive the grenade. (I remember one time on Moscow City Metro, at Point C, I brought up my Aegis and was immediately barraged by at least four grenades. Apparently my enemies weren't that good with grenades, because I lived.) in short, I'd like to try it out before I pass judgment on the change.

To clear up a major misconception: You CAN damage the bubble. Enough gun fire with pop the bubble much earlier than the Specialist was expecting, giving you the upper hand.

[JoshHardenburg]

To clear up a major misconception: You CAN damage the bubble. Enough gun fire with pop the bubble much earlier than the Specialist was expecting, giving you the upper hand.

Ya I had no idea Aegis took damage, I always thought it was just a immune bubble. I will now pellet you will bullets Jace. >=D


Here is a thought, what if the Aegis bubble started out bright bright red, as the shields time diminishes so does the brightness of the bubble? This would allow the opponent to know how many more bullets he needs to pump into the dude, or when the bubble is about to drain.

I have no problem with nades not being able to enter the bubble, if that nade instead "POPS" the bubble because of the time the bubble has left plus the nade damage.

I also understand we have not tested this yet, but that does not mean we should not talk about everything that it can and will effect, like I said in a different thread, someones dumb comment may spark a light bulb in a dev's brain that brings around a great feature.

[Doombringer777]

Here is a thought, what if the Aegis bubble started out bright bright red, as the shields time diminishes so does the brightness of the bubble? This would allow the opponent to know how many more bullets he needs to pump into the dude, or when the bubble is about to drain.

I have no problem with nades not being able to enter the bubble, if that nade instead "POPS" the bubble because of the time the bubble has left plus the nade damage.


Honestly, I would be completely ok with this. It's a less drastic change than what I suggested, would keep grenades from blowing up an entire team by being thrown into the bubble while still giving the enemy team the chance to keep them from doing a full rush and picking some of them off as a reward for popping the bubble, and would keep the people from whining about Aegis not being completely bulletproof. With the change I suggested. +1

[TheFragacide]

Here is a thought, what if the Aegis bubble started out bright bright red, as the shields time diminishes so does the brightness of the bubble? This would allow the opponent to know how many more bullets he needs to pump into the dude, or when the bubble is about to drain.


I kind of agree with this, but don't forget that it'll allow the team using the bubble to know as well, leaving the element of "oops, your AEGIS dropped early" surprise out of the equation and also allowing them time to take cover.


I'm not sure how to feel about this. Aegis is a very powerful ability, and the ability to reflect grenades only makes it more powerful. There were indeed times when I'd pull up my Aegis and die almost immediately to a grenade, but there were also times I would survive the grenade. (I remember one time on Moscow City Metro, at Point C, I brought up my Aegis and was immediately barraged by at least four grenades. Apparently my enemies weren't that good with grenades, because I lived.) in short, I'd like to try it out before I pass judgment on the change.

To clear up a major misconception: You CAN damage the bubble. Enough gun fire with pop the bubble much earlier than the Specialist was expecting, giving you the upper hand.

Was wondering what your take on this was gonna be, Jace. I think it's going to give us an even more unfair advantage then we already have.
I thought it was at just the right power-level. Stoppable if you're good with your timing and aim, godlike if you're unskilled.
But, like we've been saying, we won't truly know until we get in there.

[tootsybootsy]

you could just roll the grenade in instead of throwing it? O.o what i do...

[DenKirson]

This is hardly a boon for the Specialist, it turns out to be more of an advantage in favor of Timed grenades.

Since the AEGIS is about the number one stalemate breaker, a timed grenade dropped in front of the slow walking, constantly advancing Specialist will either cause him to stop for the grenade to explode or unwittingly walk into its radius after the grenade has settled in front of him.
The grenade is only deflected by the shield if you chuck it directly at the guy (which in most cases before this change would cause the grenade to land well behind him, allowing him to continue on), but by being deflected, the grenade will bounce back a bit towards you - again putting it in his intended path, meaning he is either going to stop or walk into the grenade far more often.

Here's a diagram.
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5168/22674935.png

That is to say grenades are going to be a greater impediment to the shield.

As for Impact grenades, they lose the ability to easily kill the AEGIS user, but now the grenade will wreck the durability of his shields, exploding right on top of it.

[LovelessMemory]

So far, I haven't found bouncing grenades to be too much of an issue when going anti-Aegis; I've rolled a grenade in and had a guy walk into it.. I'm not entirely sure, but sometimes the grenade blasts still go through the shield. Grenades may bounce off the shield but they're still in good range of hitting me. If anything, things have gotten more problematic with teammates ending up walking on a grenade that bounced.