Shot Gun Hacks

[MoGPvt.Hilel]

Not sure if this is a hack but my game tonight againts Superhero and Smashy totaly was frustrating and a total turn off to the game. Both were running and gunning with shotguns. one hit one kill. Watched superhero take out four guys without taking any damage. So if it stays as is in open game I will not purchase because it will be just a bunch of shot gun wielding morons running and gunning with a 20/3 ratio. I find it boring and frustrating and is a total loss of this game and the mission it is trying to teach. Just my two cents.

[Naok10]

I shall direct you here http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/662531-Close-Beta-Shotgun-Montage

[yshabash]

I shall direct you here http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/662531-Close-Beta-Shotgun-Montage

Lol,what were the chances? Well this video has definitely convinced me to get a shotgun when my spec turns level 5.

[Johnrare]

they just shot gun nubs with no skill since shot gun just spray

[Creepermoss]

Lots of shotgun envy in here. It's no different than a high powered rifle, if I miss, I die, and it CAN one hit you. Just like an actual shotgun. Go figure? The funny thing? I get better kill/death ratios when using an lmg than a shotgun. Because the shotgun requires me to close the gap between us to be really effective.

A first-man-through-the-door class needs a hard hitting close range weapon. And lol @ "spray", with a magazine of 5, I choose my shots carefully.

[LiquidX74]

I think also, there is a bug or something with shotguns. If you scope in while using a shotgun, the spread is not nearly as wide, and because of this you can actually hit a player clear across the map with a significant cluster of pellets. I have 1 shot someone on oilrig while he was standing on the raised level on his side of the map, and I was just at the bottom of the stairs on my side.

This should be looked into because zooming in with a shotgun should probably not affect the spread of pellets.

[Creepermoss]

I agree with Sarge, looking through an optic shouldn't affect the pellet spread.

[Agent.Ruse]

I agree with Sarge, looking through an optic shouldn't affect the pellet spread.

2 1/4" #00 does not spread that much - it's 9 .33 balls.
It's called Buck, not Bird for a reason...it is not a coincidence.

Shotguns are only effective at laughably short ranges in arcade shooters.

I've dropped a lot of people by aiming for the Trinity at long range. However, I've been taken out by the Sig 250 after hitting my target with all 5 rounds plus 2 or 3 (counting as I discharge to see how many it will take).

[Creepermoss]

2 1/4" #00 does not spread that much - it's 9 .33 balls.
It's called Buck, not Bird for a reason...it is not a coincidence.

Shotguns are only effective at laughably short ranges in arcade shooters.

I've dropped a lot of people by aiming for the Trinity at long range. However, I've been taken out by the Sig 250 after hitting my target with all 5 rounds plus 2 or 3 (counting as I discharge to see how many it will take).

I'm a shotgun fan, IRL and ingame, what sarge and I are speaking of is that in the game, looking down your sights or optic changes the pellet spread, and it shouldn't. I'm not sure if it's by design, or a bug, but it seems kinda goofy.

[Agent.Ruse]

I'm a shotgun fan, IRL and ingame, what sarge and I are speaking of is that in the game, looking down your sights or optic changes the pellet spread, and it shouldn't. I'm not sure if it's by design, or a bug, but it seems kinda goofy.

I have a lot of experience with personally owned and issued shotguns - the pattern is too wide in the game. But it's a game and it's probably what people expect being that their only 12 ga etc experience is with other video games.

If the pattern is effected when you aim a shotgun in the game, I would agree. The orientation and weather or not you have a proper cheek weld should not have an effect on the pattern.

What about the introduction of chokes, Fosters, flechettes, and sabots for different play styles with shotguns?

The last game I played was Splinter Cell Conviction. The shotguns in that game were entertaining. The patterning was too large and damage beyond about 7-10 yards was laughable but it was fun.

Before that I played the GR and GRAW series. In GRAW2, the multiplayer got patch which introduced a shotgun (1014) and it was a pile of trash; funny to use though. Even if you were standing on top of an opponent and shot him in the back of the head two or three times, you still might not have done enough damage to get the kill. At 10 yards you probably won't even connect with your target - which is odd considering the rest of the game was pretty well done.

[DracoFilia]

Hmm actually the shotgun shouldn't have a reduced pellet spread when in iron sight. Sounds like a bug right there. It would be good to see a test case for the shotgun when the betas open again. It could be a matter of perception, since shotgun spread is random and one can get lucky at times (i.e. more pellets than usual hit the target in a single shot). Does anyone know if this seemed to be the case with all shotguns, or specific shotguns with a very specific scope?

[chemzero]

Yeah... I've reported this, I'll make sure it's in the bug DB, though.

[Creepermoss]

One thing to consider when making changes (if you do) to the shotguns.

My buddy nekomancer and I started playing on the same day. He prefers the m96 SV, and the Aegis shield. I run the Benelli and Blackout. He maintains a higher KDR than I do, and he does not play any less aggressively than me, he usually outscores me by being on the point as much or more than me, helping to capture it, and scoring more kills a round than I do. It strikes me that this isn't because he has a better gun than I do, or a stronger ability, but that he plays to his weapon's and his ability's strengths better than I do.

Yes, some people are capable of the run and gun tactics, but I wonder how many of the folks crying foul are being killed again and again by a few select individuals with above average skill in using said shotguns, and assume that anyone with a shotgun is capable of such feats? I've said it before: the damage and range shouldn't be altered, but the RoF could be toned down, and some extra recoil would make the "run in and kill 5 guys in 1 second" move much more difficult to do, thereby reducing any imbalance the gun may have. I say may have, because when I go on like a ten kill streak, it's not the gun doing the killing, but the tactics I employ with the gun.

With a 5 round magazine, to get a ten kill streak via shotgun, I have to perform a full reload at least once, and that's if every shot is a kill, so more likely two or more reloads. That's much more time spent without the ability to return fire, than if I used an LMG with a 150 round magazine that I probably don't have to reload at all to do ten. 150 rounds @ even 20 damage per round is 3000 potential damage in one magazine. 5 shells at 200 damage each is 1000 in one magazine. Yes, the reload on the LMGs is longer, but the fact that you're not going to be caught with an empty gun makes you less likely to die to "obsessive reload syndrome"..

We should look at the killstreak leaderboard, I'd be willing to bet that less than 30% of the people in the top ten achieved those streaks with a shotgun. IDK about you, but that says something to me. I'm sure some of you think this is me trying to keep my "OP" gun from being nerfed, but it's not. I enjoy playing GRO with an LMG as much as I do with the shotgun, I want to see GRO as well balanced as possible, to keep the game (and the fun) alive and enjoyable as long as possible.

[Agent.Ruse]

I'd say that's pretty accurate. All of the shotgun kills i've gotten I could of easily gotten with a rifle. I have fun using the shotgun and I should not be punished for that.

It's usually sniper laying on their belly complaining. They won't say anything about your flank but they'll be happy to raise hell about your weapon. They don't seem to mind killing you with one shot to the head when it take you 4-8 shots to the head to drop them though.

[hoak]

It's interesting you fellers would regard the shotgun's pattern as too wide (which it is for such long barreled shotguns) -- but don't think the same of the LMGs which even when fired prone have nearly as much spread... A real LMG does have a little initial jump, but 5.56 is a light and very controllable round and most of these weapons fired prone, supported with bipod offers surprising control and accuracy even in sustained fire.

Obviously realistic ROF, range, damage and accuracy are not part and parcel of GR:O, but it would be nice to see a least a little more continuity, where something that's shooting a larger heavier round out of a longer heavier barrel then most assault rifles is at least more accurate and powerful than the game's handguns...

:confused:

[Agent.Ruse]

It's interesting you fellers would regard the shotgun's pattern as too wide (which it is for such a long barreled shotguns) -- but don't think the same of the LMGs which even when fired prone have nearly as much spread... A real LMG does have a little initial jump, but 5.56 is a light and very controllable round and most of these weapons fired prone, supported with bipod offers surprising control and accuracy even in sustained fire.

Obviously realistic ROF, range, damage and accuracy are not part and parcel of GR:O, but it would be nice to see a least a little more continuity, where something that's shooting a larger heavier round out of a longer heavier barrel then most assault rifles is at least more accurate and powerful than the game's handguns...

:confused:

The LMGs do pattern too wide - the 249 will provide point target at 800 meters. I can vouch for the weapon, it performs as advertised. There is no way that the devs will make the carbines and LMGs anywhwere as near accurate at their real world counter parts. To start with, the maps aren't big enough. People would have fits because they were not able to use metel or wood as a hard point etc.

I can ping the ace everytime at 300 meters with irons on my M4. 500 meters? Sure, I'll just take a knee or burrow down a bit and sit.

5.56 is a hyper accelerated round. It has little muzzle rise because the bore and stock and bolt are inline. The birdcage is also designed well and does a very good job of mitigating rise. If you learned to sling lead in SOI you probably use an over-bore (aka thumb break grip) which reduces muzzle rise even more and allows you, once mastered, to put rounds on target at an alarming rate. As far of recoil - there's plenty of that and it is very loud; as mentioned, the 5.56 is a hyper accelerated round. M855 has more recoil that the M193. The Mk 262 has more recoil than the M855, so on and so forth.

The largest reason 5.56 seems so controlled when you are watching INF, is because we are experienced and know exactly what to do.

Side arms are poorly represented in this game. You can ping the ace at 200 yards and beyond with a 1911. Know your weapon system. Know your holds. I've done this many many times.

[MoGPvt.Hilel]

I stand corrected and need to give credit where credit is due. Finaly got my shotgun and filled it with modes to make it a fast a furious killing machine. Spent two nights with it and my conclusions are as follows.

Superhero you are the pellat weilding master with a shot gun. Although in the day of Rogue Spear I considered being called a hack nightly was the highest form of "you da man". I need to appalogise and tell it like it is. Watching your videos I noticed a few things. Postion of your character and aim is everthing. Although I still think the pellat spread is a little to close at ranges half the map. I did notice a drop in hit points even with scoped head shots nice work tech team. Using the shotgun does raise the body count but is much harder to keep on your oponate long or short range. I love it and hate it at the same time. I like the major droping power torso and head shots. Hate it because you have to realy consitrate on that right moment and postion of aim. This is not a spray and pray type of weapon. Go figure :) On the other hand being away from FPS for three years "took it real hard when Rogue Spear went off line" I found myself learning to place the shot all over again.

Also had the pleasure of playing with Pinktaco last night all I can say is WOW. Running with a group of guys who know how to play is incredible. It took the game to new hieghts in potential and fun. Playing a match with seasoned players is going to bring this game a long way. Also played with that group as an oponate and all I can say is WOW had to find a spot and camp just to have a chance LOL.

This brings me to the next point the rail way and moscow city seem the be the maps that are linear in play. Another words it is hard to spawn camp as a team. The ship and construction site are maps that foster spawn camping. The jump off points on either side along with the stair case entry to D. I am guilty of using them to "flank" from time to time. I do not enjoy getting owned like all of us but not having a chance to enter the theater of play is frustrating. On the other hand was fun at the same time LOL.

[LovelessMemory]

Superhero and Smashy

Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed about your post. I think you're just unlucky that you ran into them.



- snip -

I think you really nailed it with that post. :cool:


Yeah... I've reported this, I'll make sure it's in the bug DB, though.

In a lot of other games, ADS on a shotgun does reduce it's spread, so there it's a feature, not a bug. But if it's a bug, it's a bug. (But again....it would give some incentive to scope in. And please don't unscope after firing a pump-action....)

---------------------

Personally, I only find the Pentagun to be the only overpowering shotgun. A high rate of fire offsets the lower damage and accuracy and has a magazine reload as a bonus. M500SV forced you to make your shots count and even with the PM5 I've hit for 130 Damage and didn't get the kill due to poor aim as I hit the legs. M1014 I'll pass on, but I want to see how NS2000 SP will be.

[JohnoBurr]

The people that cry foul about shotguns really need to try them and see it might not be as easy as they think. However they need to nerf the pentagun.

[Creepermoss]

The people that cry foul about shotguns really need to try them and see it might not be as easy as they think. However they need to nerf the pentagun.

I think this is where 99% of all misconceptions come from, a lack of knowledge on said concept. After getting rolled by super, I can understand why folks might think shotguns are OP. It's nice to see someone actually try one out, and it seems it may have changed his mind, even. I would reccomend this same course of action for every player that believes any one thing is OP, try it for yourself before passing judgement, you might be surprised by what you find.

[chemzero]

I think this is where 99% of all misconceptions come from, a lack of knowledge on said concept. After getting rolled by super, I can understand why folks might think shotguns are OP. It's nice to see someone actually try one out, and it seems it may have changed his mind, even. I would reccomend this same course of action for every player that believes any one thing is OP, try it for yourself before passing judgement, you might be surprised by what you find.

The Pentagun is ridiculously powerful, the other shotguns are pretty balanced.

[Creepermoss]

The Pentagun is ridiculously powerful, the other shotguns are pretty balanced.

+1

[JoshHardenburg]

The pentagun needs to be thrown in here!
http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//47/8b/478b32de5f6bd0669ea82b37840d8963.jpg
And left their!

[MoGPvt.Hilel]

Anyone notice more lag in game this evening? Man I was down to 18 FPS in some cases. Also crashed my rig for the very first time tonight. Was bragging to all the guys In TAW Clan how stable the game was last night and tonight first crash. Got a memory leak error. Like what in the world is that LOL. Pulled my cover on PC to check if there was a liquid coming fomr my RAM :) Also had an issue in moscow city jumping up the side unto the cross over bridge. Screen froze then found myself up on a balkeny way above the room. I was half in the floor LOL.

Ok enough. negative. Very nice job on the game guys. I find myself waiting to play each night even though I am rolled more times and my K/D is over the top augly. I enjoy the game.

One other thing have not played the sniper much but I ran into Larry tonight and it seemed that everytime (meaning with in a minute and at different locations) he was pinging me. Is this tool different then say heat or shield with only a few seconds of worth and then a long recovery time? Or is this tool always on when you are in his general location. Just wondering. Also how I know was him and him only is that we only had four players in map at that time. His team mate was assault.

One other thing Stevefrench and shanks remember this is Beta testing and is an honor to do so. This is not another misguided junior high gaming experiance. Your fowl language and constant bickering on coms this evening was childish to say the least. Take a moment and read the rules of conduct if you feel you can put on the big boy pants and contain your conversation then do so. If not I am sure there is room in the AA or BF2 servers.

[DracoFilia]

Indeed the Pentagun is overpowered given its current tier. But as mentioned before, the semiauto shotgun ROF can be a bit much. 180 RPM means 3 shots as fast as you can say "One thousand". The lower damage should help to balance out the semiauto models. The original intention of the max 180 RPM was to bring the semiauto weapons closer to what a real semiauto would be capable of in highly trained hands, but give the gun some +P loads in a game and it becomes a real monster. Too good to be true? =p I'm also looking at the higher tier shotguns to make sure they stay on par with the armor progression. Cheers!