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View Full Version : Real Life: Trigger Finger



XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 06:10 AM
I seen many pics of operators with their fingers extended and not touching the trigger when they havent aquired a target and not ready to fire. I was wondering is this standard procedure in real life all around the world. If im wrong about this, plz tell me.

I already know that u shouldnt fire a weapon from the hip, so no need to clarify that for me. hehe /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 06:10 AM
I seen many pics of operators with their fingers extended and not touching the trigger when they havent aquired a target and not ready to fire. I was wondering is this standard procedure in real life all around the world. If im wrong about this, plz tell me.

I already know that u shouldnt fire a weapon from the hip, so no need to clarify that for me. hehe /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 07:08 AM
yes finger is off the trigger and out of the guard until you are on target and are going to fire. In a high stress environment max exersion or suprise often causes contractions in muscles. A really bad story that exemplfies this is one I read in a police trade magazine, although I do not remember the details. An operator on a SWAT team down in the states was exicuting a high risk warrent. A guy had his fingure on the trigger when he stumpled over an object. He jerked and fired his weapon, which hit a teammate in the elbow of his gun hand. This caused the teammate to contract his trigger finger, causing a negligent discharge. Unfortuatly at the time he was covering a pregnant woman, which was hit in the stomache. She survived, but the baby did not. Sad, may not be true, but shows what can happen if you move with your finger in the guard.

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XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 07:45 AM
thx for verifying common sense that i kinda already knew. i cant believe ppl arent smart enought to figure this out sooner, i seen some pics of some ppl w/ their trigger on the finger, like this pic on hkpro.com


http://www.hkpro.com/action8mp5yikes.jpg


muzzle up as well, really stupid.

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 03:03 PM
would you consider guarding a football game high stress? are you gonna shoot your weapon if some1 throws a mountain dew at you? besides, he has the barrel up in CASE he does contract and shoot the weapon, then hell just shoot a hole in the dome, and look how loosely he is holding the trigger

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 06:04 PM
but if hes pointing the gun up in the air then he will not put a hole in the roof as he will probably take sumones jaw with it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif , and he shudnt be holidng the trigger no matter how lightly, he shud be pointing the weapon on the floor so the most damage he can do is shoot himself in the foot

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XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 08:41 PM
Sort of off topic but I tend to use my middle finger to pull the trigger of anything unless the blowback gets in the way. It just feels like a more dominant finger (lol). Something wrong with that though? Seems like the pros only use index.

Ya baby ya!

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 09:19 PM
Does it matter? I'm almost 100% sure that that guy has the safety on.

When I play RVS I try to put my finger on mouse 3 so I don't tk. Works for me, but most likely won't work for a lot of people. I've only been killed a few times due to the fraction of a second it takes to move my finger from mouse 3 to 1.

XyZspineZyX
10-12-2003, 10:09 PM
I doesn't matter weather the safety is on or off, as the mechanism might fail (though this is a very rare, if not improbable) but the finger should be off the trigger, and muzzle down. if he wants to be ready to engage, then the stock should be in his shoulder and again, muzzle down at 45 degrees. but yeah....what was i talking about.....
later

"Firepower is usually definded as the number of rounds sent down range, 1000 misses is not firepower, one kill is."

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 08:11 AM
Jeez I'd hate to be that guy looking at this thread. He's probably been drilled by his boss over it already. Still, I gues we arn't being all that hard on him. Surprisingly.

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 11:06 PM
Forum386 wrote:
- Does it matter? I'm almost 100% sure that that guy
- has the safety on.
-
- When I play RVS I try to put my finger on mouse 3 so
- I don't tk. Works for me, but most likely won't
- work for a lot of people. I've only been killed a
- few times due to the fraction of a second it takes
- to move my finger from mouse 3 to 1.
-
-

It's called professionalism. A firearm is not a toy, not something to triffled with. How you act in a low stress environment is how you act in a high stress, because your unconsious mind will go back to what it knows and has done.

Same as handling a firearm. #1 cardnal rule of handling firearms - assume it is loaded. Even when I am handed a firearm with the action locked back I will do a visual and physical check to make sure it is unloaded. Even after the person who hands me it has done the same. Why? Because it's something you do every time. Same with fingure outside the guard and the muzzle in a safe direction (the ground)

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XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 11:07 PM
Fein wrote:
- would you consider guarding a football game high
- stress? are you gonna shoot your weapon if some1
- throws a mountain dew at you? besides, he has the
- barrel up in CASE he does contract and shoot the
- weapon, then hell just shoot a hole in the dome, and
- look how loosely he is holding the trigger
-
-

get hit in the back of the head and you flinch, fingure on the trigger -- bang. Not good. Same with safe direction. Look at the angle and the hight of the stands. He's lasering someone with that barrel right now. Scary to see really.

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XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 12:20 AM
This guy is just guarding a stadium...I doubt that there is any known threat. He isn't going to shoulder the weapon and be ready for four or five hours straight. Give the guy a break. I'm sure he's had more training than any of you.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 12:26 AM
well with less 'training' being a cop I've got a lot more firearm safety than he does. Goes a lot towards professionalism. I won't give someone a break for handling a firearm wrong because that's how neglagent discharges and people get hurt/die happen. If it only happens once that's way too many.

A few years ago a guy on the force's tatical team died because someone forgot to check a presumed empty weapon was indead safe. 1 in a million mistake by a guy who trains exstensively with firearms, but someone died. That's the reality of firearms and why you always treat them right and with respect.

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XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 03:14 AM
There's so many stories of people with more training that have made the most novice mistakes that have lead either weapons being damaged/destroyed, injuries and/or death. People can't afford to get slack around things that can kill people. Unfortunately it happens all the time in all fields though.

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 02:51 AM
i know it may sound stupid but.... when your sure that the area is "clean" rest your finger straight across the trigger hole and resting on the gun, not trigger like this ==)=
if that makes sense to you
in high intense situations where there's conflict keep the gun aiming down, but slightly rest the finger on the trigger, aim the gun down at a slant, straight infront of you, keep your head down too, looking right down the sights, but keep your head enough to see whats going on infront of you

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 07:57 PM
that dude should not be pointing his firearm up for the reason that if someone in the crowd looked down and saw a barrel of a gun pointing at them then u wouldnt half brick ya pants, atleast that person would be able to watch the game without the fear he might have a bullet hole through his head, if that dude had so much training then he would learn this stuff and stick to it.

http://sigs.hqhosting.net/colbensas3.gif


If all else fails......... throw the gun

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 10:13 PM
black_op_sniper wrote:
- i know it may sound stupid but.... when your sure
- that the area is "clean" rest your finger straight
- across the trigger hole and resting on the gun, not
- trigger like this =/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif =
- if that makes sense to you
- in high intense situations where there's conflict
- keep the gun aiming down, but slightly rest the
- finger on the trigger, aim the gun down at a slant,
- straight infront of you, keep your head down too,
- looking right down the sights, but keep your head
- enough to see whats going on infront of you
-
-

Sorry, but that goes against all of my training and any training I know of. You finger is off the trigger along the frame until you have a target and have decided to fire. In a high intensity situation to move around with your finger 'lightly' on the trigger is asking for a ND. Even if the weapon is pointed in a safe direction you don't want it go off. When we are clearing a building with a shotgun your trigger finger is indexed on the safety b/c you are moving with the weapon safe, even in a 'hot' location. If you have a target and you have decided to fire you unsafe the weapon and then fire. If you want to move you re-safe while moving. You don't lose time moving your finger that short of a distance.

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8f8774ace10f577398ac1bda6b933b44
04-12-2004, 09:08 AM
This is going to sound stupider, but don't you think the guy is *posing* for the photo?

teebus
04-12-2004, 12:11 PM
That Korean policeman with his finger on the trigger must be posing... He is supposed to be guarding, not engaging, so that is very dangerous indeed.

Just a note- I am a long range assaulter and sniper in the Bundesgrenzshutz (which GSG9 is part of), and I usually have my arm rested on the G36, with its sling over my shoulder. When a threat is radioed to me, or I suspect anything myself, that is when I go into "attack mode" and am ready to engage. I ensure that I am well hidden yet still have a decent view of the target, with as little obscuration (especially by pedestrians) as possible. They usually scatter if they see me looking down my sights at them anyway! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

When I snipe (which is most of the time, especially during V.I.P protection and when any packed flights arrive, I always have my finger outside the guard and act as recon. I am not a spotter, so I use my sniper scope and am ready to engage a target in seconds if necessary. If there a hostile situation arrises, I will have my finger rested on the trigger an will excert a small amount of pressure- I have had to kill and inflict flesh wounds before, so you never know what you could face in a job like mine.

As far as a SWAT team goes, they are very different to CT or armed police officers. They are called in when a situation arrises, and are always ready to fire.

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

ZeroSniper0
04-12-2004, 05:42 PM
hey, scotty, mind telling me y u had to resurrect this thread after 6 months? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

...but anyway, im definitely sure SWAT teams would have their fingers in the trigger guards because they r going into erratic and unpredictable CQB combat, but im not the expert, so take my words with a grain of salt. army troops r probably the ones that go around with their fingers outside the trigger guards. im not sure about special forces, though...

________
http://www.ctbase.com/uploads/M40A3/.50-caliber.jpg
"I never thought I'd be alive today to write these lines, but when the sniper drew his bead...the life he saved was mine."

teebus
04-13-2004, 03:27 AM
The SAS certainly have their fingers in the guard, and are ready to fire at any time. As you said, I don't think it is wise for the army/marines to go around in populated civilian areas with their fingers on the trigger...

Scotty resurrected this thread after 6 months as he is a nerd, simple as that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

LeadHead01
04-16-2004, 05:02 PM
I seriously can't believe any elite military units (such as the SAS) would go into a hostage situation (or any situation with the fingers on the triggers. I've been in military service for 15 months which, while being the longest service you do here in Sweden, is a relatively short time. Still, after this time I have this moving of the finger back and forth between trigger and outside of the trigger guard depending on whether or not I'm aiming at something/somebody rooted really deep.

A CQB encounter IRL is not like in RvS where all you do is press the mouse button and twist your wrist a bit in order to have your data packets beat your opponent's to the server... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Instead, you actually have to MOVE at least your arms, probably also the rest of your body (possibly even taking a short step). Compared to this, moving your finger to the trigger is no effort and takes no time at all as you do it pretty much in the same instant you make the decision to fire, alternatively prepare to fire (ie. aim at a known danger while it's still unclear if you really should shoot him.).

T-bred-tiger
04-16-2004, 08:00 PM
I like to keep my index finger off the trigger and out of the guard. I always have the safety on, and if I know I am not engaging, I usually won't chamber a round into my rifle unless I detect a threat. And when I am at base, when we unload, we always take out the magazine, take our gun over to a barrel full of sand, switch the gun to automatic and put the muzzle into the barrel and make sure the gun is clear by squeezing the trigger. Likewise, I always assume any firearm I pickup to be loaded and safety off.

teebus
04-17-2004, 01:51 AM
The SAS do have their fingers on the trigger in hostage situations as well LeadHead01, but they excert less pressure than when they are infiltrating a terrorist base. They always use thieir MP5s on semi-automatic to minimise the risk of harming civilians/hostages.

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

TAT-Radox
04-20-2004, 05:12 AM
yes its sop for all branches and common sense, my saftey is my finger ^^ but, the police with the mo5a2 is a moron, hell contract, and blow a hole though the wall and wouldent be surprised if he took s fans hwad off who was leaning over the edge or hit a beam and richocheted in the stands :| in madgrid air port i walked though customs with a cop LOOKING DOWN THE BARREL OF A HOT MP5A2 WITH IT ON BURST! i walked by and snickered nice saftey jack tard, hope u blow oyu brains out, its amazing how stupid some people are even if theve gone though military or para military training(meaning body guards police etc, there not the military http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif)

The last thing youll hear when you face me will be nothing but the click of a bolt. Then everything will go black....

teebus
04-20-2004, 11:17 AM
Wow... I never knew my uncle knew so much about the SAS. He amazes even me! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

Ramcke2005
11-30-2005, 09:39 AM
that fool in the pic has his mp5 on semi and if he were to pull that trigger he would be shootin at the **** crowd.........10/10 for poor weapons handling. noob.

Jus228
04-11-2006, 11:13 AM
NO amount of training will keep an ND from happening if you rest your finger on the trigger when you aren't engaging a target. Simple as that.