To David Sears - Please consider who your target audiance is

[Pest_AWC]

I know David Sears won't come in here and chat with us, but if anyone from UBI can get this question/observation to him I would appreciate it:


I am really worried that UBI is not in touch with their target audience with Patriots multiplayer, no matter if that target is a casual Run N Gun player or a strategic oldschool hardcore player.

The Run N Gunners will not put up with waiting a minute for everyone to be done playing in the “Sandbox” and won’t be following any strategies created. They generally won’t want to follow or be followed by anyone. They will do their own thing, respawn, and do it again and again. This was proven with what occurs in Battlefield 2 games when they tried to make it more leader/follower based.

The Hardcore players will love the Sandbox and Leader/Follower. They will not tolerate 3rd person magical cover view, health regen, respawns, grenade indicators, aim assist, “Instinct Icons”, Room Scanners (without some type of countermeasure), or any other unrealistic crutches being forced on us.

Of course, all of this could work out if UBI would allow server side control of all options/game rules and have a true hardcore mode (with Lean/Prone please!). Unfortunately, if Vegas is any indication they do not want to give server admins that much control.

With Vegas, they finally gave in on the third and final patch of Vegas 2 to allow the “High Stakes” hardcore mode that at least reduced the god-like view from 3rd person cover, removed aim assist, and removed health regen.

Unfortunately for PC users, that patch only worked for one round and this final patch was never fixed.

Please start some type of dialog with us, so that we can stay and support this game or be told once and for all you have no intention of listening to fans of the series.

Thank you

[StealthR1]

I bet adding in an awesome hardcore mode by removing (3rd person magical cover view, health regen, respawns, grenade indicators, aim assist, “Instinct Icons”, Room Scanners) wouldn't be too difficult. But I don't think they want do to that as we would prove there ideas for a tactical shooter are faulty. No one wants to be told there ideas suck. But watching the recent video of the two from the dev team, they seem so ignorants that I am pretty sure they have no idea what we want. They have absolutely no clue how to make a tactical shooter. They should take some notes from the Deus Ex: Human Revolution team, they listened to there fans and provided what they want, and US the FANS not only praised the game but went out and BOUGHT the game. I DO NOT PLAN ON BUYING Rainbow Six Patriots!!!!!! UNLESS major changes are made.

[sameer_monier]

I am not sure how the MP will work, but I believe it got potential, and so far I like what I saw

Regarding the cover-camper, I think the devs included the "Instinct Icon" for that reason, so if there is someone aiming while in cover you will see the icon flashing or whatever, meanwhile if someone is sneaking behind your back the icon won't be affected, the Scanners will also make it easy to spot these campers, when you are having doubts you would use the Scanner to check, I think there will probably be a countermeasure like an EMP Grenade or something


I guess the game will be a middle ground, where it support tactics and lone wolf style, of course running and gunning will get the player killed, but some are expert and will be able to survive, I hope they strike a balance between both, since I don't think Ubi is welling to make a pure hardcore title, or make R6P another COD-Clone

Edit: in the target demo, whenever the character went to the side of a cover, his animation kinda changed like he was peeking around, same if he was peeking over cover, so if that's the case in MP too, it would be easy to spot the campers

[Pest_AWC]

Originally posted by sameer_monier:

Regarding the cover-camper, I think the devs included the "Instinct Icon" for that reason, so if there is someone aiming while in cover you will see the icon flashing

Fixing something that is completely unrealistic by giving you something else that is completely unrealistic is about the lamest thing I have ever heard. We might as well have power-ups and teleporters too.


Originally posted by sameer_monier:

Edit: in the target demo, whenever the character went to the side of a cover, his animation kinda changed like he was peeking around, same if he was peeking over cover, so if that's the case in MP too, it would be easy to spot the campers

Unfortunately, I have spoken with someone that saw the real game footage and 3rd person cover is (for now) just like the unrealistic vantage point of Vegas, it was not restricted 3rd person like the pre-rendered target demo.

Let's face it, if they don't have a hardcore mode or options to turn off the unrealistic stuff, the hardcore fans won't play and if they force casual players to wait through "Sandbox" time and leader/follower options, those players won't play.

This game is headed for failure, but if someone from UBI could come in here and clear things up perhaps we could talk more positively about the game and UBI could avoid the most expensive mistake they have ever made.

[sameer_monier]

Originally posted by Pest_AWC:
Fixing something that is completely unrealistic by giving you something else that is completely unrealistic is about the lamest thing I have ever heard. We might as well have power-ups and teleporters too.

I am not against a High-Stake Mode, but what If there was none, any solution would better than non right ?!, beside Realistic approach is kinda hard to find nowadays


Originally posted by Pest_AWC:
Unfortunately, I have spoken with someone that saw the real game footage and 3rd person cover is (for now) just like the unrealistic vantage point of Vegas, it was not restricted 3rd person like the pre-rendered target demo.

I am just curious, could you ask him would the Instinct Icon work as a counter measure or not ?!, and if the Instinct Icon would work even if someone is sneaking by ?!



Let's face it, if they don't have a hardcore mode or options to turn off the unrealistic stuff, the hardcore fans won't play and if they force casual players to wait through "Sandbox" time and leader/follower options, those players won't play.

I am more worried about the hardcore fans, if you check GRFS, there was similar demands of a hardcore mode to switch off "Cameo, Reg. Health, .......etc", when one member asked about it, the devs responded saying there was none, so I kinda think that may happen again with R6P


This game is headed for failure, but if someone from UBI could come in here and clear things up perhaps we could talk more positively about the game and UBI could avoid the most expensive mistake they have ever made.
As far as the SP is going, I don't think it will be a failure, for the MP as I said before I am not so sure, I need to try it out myself, I hope your solution comes to be, but Ubi's policy prevent any dev from commenting or discussing anything on the forums, the best we could get would be a Dev.Com. and he will only answer questions from time to time without real discussion about the game

[Pest_AWC]

Originally posted by sameer_monier:

I am just curious, could you ask him would the Instinct Icon work as a counter measure or not ?!, and if the Instinct Icon would work even if someone is sneaking by ?!


Unfortunately, my contact has not gotten back to me with my follow up questions so I don't think I will get more info.

Also, the view that the press had of the multiplayer footage was brief, so your questions may not be able to be answered.

It sounds like the "Instinct Icon" will show up whenever someone has you in their vision arc, but this is not confirmed.

[sameer_monier]

Originally posted by Pest_AWC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sameer_monier:

I am just curious, could you ask him would the Instinct Icon work as a counter measure or not ?!, and if the Instinct Icon would work even if someone is sneaking by ?!


Unfortunately, my contact has not gotten back to me with my follow up questions so I don't think I will get more info.

Also, the view that the press had of the multiplayer footage was brief, so your questions may not be able to be answered.

It sounds like the "Instinct Icon" will show up whenever someone has you in their vision arc, but this is not confirmed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mmmmm I see, I hope he get's back to you sooner than later


BTW Spec Ops The Line is being made by 2k, so they made a beta one year ago, a secret one to have players input on it, their thoughts, and suggestion, how about Ubi doing the same thing ?!, if we get our hands on a beta on 2012, we may be able to discuss everything about MP in confidence, it doesn't matter if it's buggy as long as we get a taste of how things will work out and be able to share what we think with the devs to make a better experience

I am saying that but I really don't believe Ubi would do such a thing, but suggestions don't hurt anyone

[TheProwlrGarret]

LOL! Their target audience is MONEY. I have tried my best this year to really be pro active in my gaming and get on the forums and say my peace. GUESS WHAT!? Its done nothing. Zipper and EA just ban you for not sucking their *******s at how good THEY THOUGHT the game was on their forums. SOCOM and Battlefield this generation are garbage. I also tried on the Skyrim forums for a two player coop on PC and still no one listened, even though my post got a big following. Developers have there ideas set in their minds where the game should go. All the feedback on the forums MEANS NOTHING if it has something to do with your personal ideas, it only means something if it improves upon the ideas that are already there. Rainbow six Patriots will be a failure, cause guess what, Ubisoft does not listen to its fans either. I tried on their AC Revelations forums about changing things up and we got Brotherhood 2 with the same maps and awful awful glitches. Its all facts guys. The facts do not lie.

[Dieinthedark]

I think the biggest challenge for Ubi will be how to make people play this as a tactical game. BF3 is suppossed to be and very well can be, but it doesn't force it. RB6P MUST (again) <span class="ev_code_RED">MUST</span> be a tactical game.

<span class="ev_code_RED">UBI TAKE NOTE: IF YOU WANT THIS GAME TO SELL, THE ONLY WAY TO COMPETE WITH THE CODs AND THE BFs IS TO BE NEW. BRING SOMETHING NEW TO THE TABLE, DON'T COPY FEATURES, BE YOUR OWN GAME, REWARD THE TACTICAL, PENALIZE THE RUN & GUNNERS AND YOU'LL DO FINE. SERIOUSLY, LOOK AT ARMA2, PEOPLE STILL PLAY THAT! YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE IT'S TACTICAL!!</span>

(the caps thing is to just drive home a point, i'm not yelling or angry) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[sonoblink]

I am a run and shoot "type" of guy . So then i have no skill and don't know what i'm doing^^
Watch your words dude there is more to RB6 than sit and camp or even working out a mission type plan!

What are you talking about "AIM ASSIST" There is no aim assist in vegas2 and never was,, I don't rememer any and i've played it from day 1 !

Target is "what" just make a game for like 50yr olds and sell 1000 copy's yea that'll happen !

I don't like to sound cheeky but vegas is my game, its just i hate people coming along with no real experience "gaming hours" shouting as if they know what there talking about sry.
As far as RB6 Patriots goes i don't care what they add to make the game sell as long as it feels like a RB6 game that's most important Saying that i do think having some sort of indicater for hosting server's that could be moved from 1 min to 10mins for people over camping and then they would be exploited on the map as silly camper for team members to head straight for and kill or just kicked from server best).Camping ruins the random respawn also screws up gameplay for us on vegas2
Another thing look at this quick scoping we see in the FPS gender this is another exploit that should be seriously looked at, i hope RB6 Patriots is'nt ruined with this ****.

[Pest_AWC]

I am a run and shoot "type" of guy . So then i have no skill and don't know what i'm doing^^
Watch your words dude there is more to RB6 than sit and camp or even working out a mission type plan!

What are you talking about "AIM ASSIST" There is no aim assist in vegas2 and never was,, I don't rememer any and i've played it from day 1 !

Target is "what" just make a game for like 50yr olds and sell 1000 copy's yea that'll happen !

I don't like to sound cheeky but vegas is my game, its just i hate people coming along with no real experience "gaming hours" shouting as if they know what there talking about sry.
As far as RB6 Patriots goes i don't care what they add to make the game sell as long as it feels like a RB6 game that's most important Saying that i do think having some sort of indicater for hosting server's that could be moved from 1 min to 10mins for people over camping and then they would be exploited on the map as silly camper for team members to head straight for and kill or just kicked from server best).Camping ruins the random respawn also screws up gameplay for us on vegas2
Another thing look at this quick scoping we see in the FPS gender this is another exploit that should be seriously looked at, i hope RB6 Patriots is'nt ruined with this ****.


First of all, Aim Assist may have not been as much of a crutch as it was in Vegas, but it WAS in Vegas 2 unless you played High Stakes Mode after 3rd patch.

If you look at the release notes for Patch V1.03 for Vegas 2 under High Stakes It says:

"- Auto-aim is completely disabled"

Since High Stakes mode didn't work for more than one round on the PC version of the patch, and was NEVER fixed, I never bothered with Vegas 2. Thanks for nothing UBI.

In regards to Camping, there are plenty of games out there that are Run N Gun with unrealistic methods to keep people from camping and allow respawns, so I am sure you can enjoy those.

Camping is a legitimate strategy in any type of situation with an objective that must be captured/destroyed for the defending team. Part of the fun for offence is finding a realistic way to defeat or circumvent the campers defending the objective. Cover fire, smoke, flashbangs and other strategies that Run N Gunners hate are some of the ways to accomplish this.

Respawning, Seeing magically over walls without being seen, having icons allow you to cheat by telling you something you wouldn't have otherwise known, and health regenerating in mid battle are unrealistic and contribute to this Run N Gun playstyle that Rainbow Six was never about in the first 3 versions of the series.

[Dieinthedark]

I am a run and shoot "type" of guy . So then i have no skill and don't know what i'm doing^^
Watch your words dude there is more to RB6 than sit and camp or even working out a mission type plan!

What are you talking about "AIM ASSIST" There is no aim assist in vegas2 and never was,, I don't rememer any and i've played it from day 1 !



No, run and gun has sadly become an option with many/most tactical games. It has become a tool that is for the most part, useful in game. RB6 has and always will appeal to the hardcore crowd and to me, that means having some sort of idea of what you are going to do or having "a mission type plan." That's not being unrealistic, having some sort of idea is essential for "tactical" shooters. Do you have to play that way? No. I'm saying it should be the method that is pushed.

Camping, i don't know where you even got that from. There's a big difference between camping, run and gunning and moving....

Aim assist, I'll assume once again you weren't talking to me :cool:

[sonoblink]

"Camping is a legitimate strategy"Might be but look guys really to see the magic of vegas2 which i'l admit is hard to do sometimes with the lag issues)Being able to Run Shot and Kill at close quarter's is so so much fun.
Don't get me wrong to be able to do this takes alot of time and practice knowing your maps and achieving a high level of skill, compared to your so called realistic approach sit and wait there is no comparison it might be unrealistic in some ways but its a nice feeling knocking off 2 3 or 4 Headshots one after the other"not easy") Its the path where Ubi should take RB6 after nearly 4 years now still there is nothing that can compete with this style of gameplay)

Auto-aim
I don't know what to make of that for there is no aim assist in vegas2 pc version.. I do remember reading somewhere they dumbed it down like COD with aim assist for the kids on the console BUT "diff not PC" )
Only other thing maybe would be the crosshair maybe would be better if you try the game for yourself instead of slating it ^^

Look man i don't think any game would make you happy the way you talk.Every game has its faults,i just take RB6 as it comes for i am a real fan.
In my world i've nothing to prove,i just love playing rainbow don't rhyme of silly flaws to me.

[Dcopymope]

"Camping is a legitimate strategy"Might be but look guys really to see the magic of vegas2 which i'l admit is hard to do sometimes with the lag issues)Being able to Run Shot and Kill at close quarter's is so so much fun.
Don't get me wrong to be able to do this takes alot of time and practice knowing your maps and achieving a high level of skill, compared to your so called realistic approach sit and wait there is no comparison it might be unrealistic in some ways but its a nice feeling knocking off 2 3 or 4 Headshots one after the other"not easy") Its the path where Ubi should take RB6 after nearly 4 years now still there is nothing that can compete with this style of gameplay)


When fans who prefer Raven Shield style gameplay say they don't like the run & gun style of the Vegas games, the correct term that should be used for this is Rambo style gameplay. Vegas is Rambo style at heart because its wolverine health system encourages it, because of this health system, its half-assed cover system and the removal of the planning phase, the feature that made Rainbow Six so popular in the first place, it made the Vegas series nothing more than a Halo rip off set in modern times. As for your view on camping, what else are you expecing someone who is defending a fixed position to do? Would it be realistic for the defender to go Rambo and compromise that fixed position, leaving it open to attack? NO, of course not. I don't really care if people prefer the Rambo style gameplay, if Ubi Soft makes good on their promises, then what the Patriots game will come down to is giving the player the choice to play it like Vegas with all the added cheats that will be in Patriots, or the choice to play it more like the first three games, the true Rainbow Six games. It remains to be seen whether or not they actually do what they promise and not completely throw fans of the first three games under the bus like they did in Vegas, the very fans that made Rainbow Six a commercial success in the first place.

[Dieinthedark]

Being able to Run Shot and Kill at close quarter's is so so much fun.

Ok, that's fine. You can play however you want to.


Don't get me wrong to be able to do this takes alot of time and practice knowing your maps and achieving a high level of skill, compared to your so called realistic approach sit and wait there is no comparison it might be unrealistic in some ways but its a nice feeling knocking off 2 3 or 4 Headshots one after the other"not easy") Its the path where Ubi should take RB6 after nearly 4 years now still there is nothing that can compete with this style of gameplay)

Really? Running around popping headshots off can't be done in any other game?


Look man i don't think any game would make you happy the way you talk.Every game has its faults,i just take RB6 as it comes for i am a real fan.
In my world i've nothing to prove,i just love playing rainbow don't rhyme of silly flaws to me.

I never said there was a game that didn't/doesn't have faults. Games that make me happy are games that are paced slower and more methodical/ games that require tactics, ideally, teamplay with tactics even. I'm not saying camping is the way to go. It's a balance between being stationary when needed and running when needed.

[sonoblink]

When fans who prefer Raven Shield style gameplay say they don't like the run & gun style of the Vegas games, the correct term that should be used for this is Rambo style gameplay. Vegas is Rambo style at heart because its wolverine health system encourages it, because of this health system, its half-assed cover system and the removal of the planning phase, the feature that made Rainbow Six so popular in the first place, it made the Vegas series nothing more than a Halo rip off set in modern times. As for your view on camping, what else are you expecing someone who is defending a fixed position to do? Would it be realistic for the defender to go Rambo and compromise that fixed position, leaving it open to attack? NO, of course not. I don't really care if people prefer the Rambo style gameplay, if Ubi Soft makes good on their promises, then what the Patriots game will come down to is giving the player the choice to play it like Vegas with all the added cheats that will be in Patriots, or the choice to play it more like the first three games, the true Rainbow Six games. It remains to be seen whether or not they actually do what they promise and not completely throw fans of the first three games under the bus like they did in Vegas, the very fans that made Rainbow Six a commercial success in the first place.

Yea sounds like fun both teams sit and camp top stuff ^^
Yes the health regenerating does encourage open play that was the idea to stop the other ^^
The cover system as any real player of vegas knows it's only a death spot nothing else or benefit or Cheat^^
Raven Sheild sure it did'nt even have TDM and yes i still have it somewhere ^^
I don't know where you get them Halo?? have you even played halo and vegas ??nothing alike^^
This is my last reply obviously you hav'nt got a clue, play the ***in games before you mention them in chat dude and maybe then you would know your Wrong^^

[Dcopymope]

Yea sounds like fun both teams sit and camp top stuff ^^
Yes the health regenerating does encourage open play that was the idea to stop the other ^^
The cover system as any real player of vegas knows it's only a death spot nothing else or benefit or Cheat^^
Raven Sheild sure it did'nt even have TDM and yes i still have it somewhere ^^
I don't know where you get them Halo?? have you even played halo and vegas ??nothing alike^^
This is my last reply obviously you hav'nt got a clue, play the ***in games before you mention them in chat dude and maybe then you would know your Wrong^^


When all else fails, when their backed into a corner, they make a run for it. HAHA

[Aj6627]

To those who mention making a game "feel like a Rainbow Six game" I have a question: what was your first Rainbow Six game?

For me, and many of the other longtime fans, our first Rainbow Six game was played back in the last millenium. Those who came on board with Letdown or Vegas honestly don't know what a "Rainbow Six game" feels like. All you know is what a R6/CoD/Halo/BF hybrid feels like.

[Pest_AWC]

To those who mention making a game "feel like a Rainbow Six game" I have a question: what was your first Rainbow Six game?

For me, and many of the other longtime fans, our first Rainbow Six game was played back in the last millenium. Those who came on board with Letdown or Vegas honestly don't know what a "Rainbow Six game" feels like. All you know is what a R6/CoD/Halo/BF hybrid feels like.

My first was Rainbow Six with friends gathered at a LAN gaming party. Rogue Spear was a big upgrade to that when it came out. Ravenshield, while it had a couple things that hardcore Rogue Spear fans thought weren't needed, was still a nice upgrade and the graphics were much better.

Then out comes bargain bin Lockdown that was just some quickly made FPS with Rainbow Six stamped on it. Most people ignored it and UBI dropped support within weeks.

Then they throw tons of cash and dev time into Vegas...and even though it may have been a good game in it's own right, they mistakenly slap the Rainbow Six name on it when it clearly didn't share any of the traits of the first 3 R6 games. The only difference between Vegas and all the other run N gun shooters out there, is that Vegas has working doors. Really. Working doors. That's about all we got for "Rainbow Six" roots in Vegas.

Vegas added things nobody that was a Rainbow Six fan asked for like Health Regen, aim assist, respawns, magical 3rd person view, and multi-colored non matching team mates. They took away leaning, fluid stance and fluid/partial door opening, footprints in snow, matching team colors without the need for magical coins floating overhead, dedicated servers with tons of options and tools to make user created maps (Ravenshield had 100's of great user created maps!). Good idea. Let's give fans nothing they liked from previous R6 games and force a bunch of non R6 COD type stuff on them.

Why UBI wants to toss out the VERY succesful market it had all to itself with Rainbow Six from the first 3 games of the series and try to be another COD/Halo clone is beyond comprehension.

[Dcopymope]

My first was Rainbow Six with friends gathered at a LAN gaming party. Rogue Spear was a big upgrade to that when it came out. Ravenshield, while it had a couple things that hardcore Rogue Spear fans thought weren't needed, was still a nice upgrade and the graphics were much better.

Then out comes bargain bin Lockdown that was just some quickly made FPS with Rainbow Six stamped on it. Most people ignored it and UBI dropped support within weeks.

Then they throw tons of cash and dev time into Vegas...and even though it may have been a good game in it's own right, they mistakenly slap the Rainbow Six name on it when it clearly didn't share any of the traits of the first 3 R6 games. The only difference between Vegas and all the other run N gun shooters out there, is that Vegas has working doors. Really. Working doors. That's about all we got for "Rainbow Six" roots in Vegas.

Vegas added things nobody that was a Rainbow Six fan asked for like Health Regen, aim assist, respawns, magical 3rd person view, and multi-colored non matching team mates. They took away leaning, fluid stance and fluid/partial door opening, footprints in snow, matching team colors without the need for magical coins floating overhead, dedicated servers with tons of options and tools to make user created maps (Ravenshield had 100's of great user created maps!). Good idea. Let's give fans nothing they liked from previous R6 games and force a bunch of non R6 COD type stuff on them.


Why UBI wants to toss out the VERY succesful market it had all to itself with Rainbow Six from the first 3 games of the series and try to be another COD/Halo clone is beyond comprehension.

The only thing that I disagree with you on is the addition of an aim assist. The aim assist in Vegas wasn't any worse than the auto aim in the first three games. The auto aim in the first three would be seen as cheating by today's standards, understandably, since it locks onto the target for you. Today, it often goes by the term 'aimbot', which is not seen in a good light at all today. I personally don't care for the aim assist either though, because it stuck to the target too much screwing my aiming up when trying to hit a faster target at close range. The real problem with it was that it couldn't be deactivated. The bottomline is, if any developer feels the need to add either feature in their games, and forcing you to use it at that, then it usually means either the aiming was clunky to to begin with and/or the A.I responded much too quickly on higher difficulties beyond human reaction time, which I personally cannot stand about the older Rainbow Six games & the Call of Duty games. It is the cheapest and most unrealistic way of making a game more difficult instead of actually improving the behavior and tactics of the A.I. Game design students are taught not to ever do this in order to make the game more challenging, because its not going to truly make the game more "challenging", just more frustrating, yet we still see these so called professional game developers doing this in their games. To me, this is only a sign that the A.I wasn't worth sh!t to begin with.

[Dcopymope]

My first was Rainbow Six with friends gathered at a LAN gaming party. Rogue Spear was a big upgrade to that when it came out. Ravenshield, while it had a couple things that hardcore Rogue Spear fans thought weren't needed, was still a nice upgrade and the graphics were much better.

Then out comes bargain bin Lockdown that was just some quickly made FPS with Rainbow Six stamped on it. Most people ignored it and UBI dropped support within weeks.

Then they throw tons of cash and dev time into Vegas...and even though it may have been a good game in it's own right, they mistakenly slap the Rainbow Six name on it when it clearly didn't share any of the traits of the first 3 R6 games. The only difference between Vegas and all the other run N gun shooters out there, is that Vegas has working doors. Really. Working doors. That's about all we got for "Rainbow Six" roots in Vegas.

Vegas added things nobody that was a Rainbow Six fan asked for like Health Regen, aim assist, respawns, magical 3rd person view, and multi-colored non matching team mates. They took away leaning, fluid stance and fluid/partial door opening, footprints in snow, matching team colors without the need for magical coins floating overhead, dedicated servers with tons of options and tools to make user created maps (Ravenshield had 100's of great user created maps!). Good idea. Let's give fans nothing they liked from previous R6 games and force a bunch of non R6 COD type stuff on them.


Why UBI wants to toss out the VERY succesful market it had all to itself with Rainbow Six from the first 3 games of the series and try to be another COD/Halo clone is beyond comprehension.

The only thing that I disagree with you on is the addition of an aim assist. The aim assist in Vegas wasn't any worse than the auto aim in the first three games. The auto aim in the first three would be seen as cheating by today's standards, understandably, since it locks onto the target for you. Today, it often goes by the term 'aimbot', which is not seen in a good light at all today. I personally don't care for the aim assist either though, because it stuck to the target too much screwing my aiming up when trying to hit a faster target at close range. The real problem with it was that it couldn't be deactivated. The bottomline is, if any developer feels the need to add either feature in their games, and forcing you to use it at that, then it usually means either the aiming was clunky to begin with and/or the A.I responded much too quickly on higher difficulties beyond human reaction time, which I cannot stand about the older Rainbow Six games & the Call of Duty games. It is the cheapest and most unrealistic way of making a game more difficult instead of actually improving the behavior and tactics of the A.I. Game design students are taught not to ever do this in order to make the game more challenging, because its not going to truly make the game more "challenging", just more frustrating, yet we still see these so called professional game developers doing this in their games. To me, this is only a sign that the A.I wasn't worth sh!t to begin with.

[Soulid_Snake]

There's a big difference between camping, run and gunning and moving....

Patrolling, lol :cool:.

[Rick_Randy]

I know David Sears won't come in here and chat with us, but if anyone from UBI can get this question/observation to him I would appreciate it:


I am really worried that UBI is not in touch with their target audience with Patriots multiplayer, no matter if that target is a casual Run N Gun player or a strategic oldschool hardcore player.

The Run N Gunners will not put up with waiting a minute for everyone to be done playing in the “Sandbox” and won’t be following any strategies created. They generally won’t want to follow or be followed by anyone. They will do their own thing, respawn, and do it again and again. This was proven with what occurs in Battlefield 2 games when they tried to make it more leader/follower based.

The Hardcore players will love the Sandbox and Leader/Follower. They will not tolerate 3rd person magical cover view, health regen, respawns, grenade indicators, aim assist, “Instinct Icons”, Room Scanners (without some type of countermeasure), or any other unrealistic crutches being forced on us.

Of course, all of this could work out if UBI would allow server side control of all options/game rules and have a true hardcore mode (with Lean/Prone please!). Unfortunately, if Vegas is any indication they do not want to give server admins that much control.

With Vegas, they finally gave in on the third and final patch of Vegas 2 to allow the “High Stakes” hardcore mode that at least reduced the god-like view from 3rd person cover, removed aim assist, and removed health regen.

Unfortunately for PC users, that patch only worked for one round and this final patch was never fixed.

Please start some type of dialog with us, so that we can stay and support this game or be told once and for all you have no intention of listening to fans of the series.

Thank you

Did we forgot being able to open door slowly or peek quietly?? that was a nice feature in the previous R6 games.be nice if you can record your games too and change viewpoints once recorded.

[Dieinthedark]

Did we forgot being able to open door slowly or peek quietly?? that was a nice feature in the previous R6 games.be nice if you can record your games too and change viewpoints once recorded.

On recording- that would actually be cool as in one of the videos posted in the OFFICIAL news/updates thread they talk about something along the lines of looking bad in front of the press on camera if an op goes bad or civs die. That would be an interesting perspective to see from...as far as recorded gameplay...

[SolidSage]

Thats an interesting angle Die. So not players recording their games for uploading to Youtube or ego stroking, but footage of how the player played the problem, and it being caught by security cams or handhelds and being reported on IN the game...like a news reel? So negative/positive public opinion and Executive pressures for the Rainbow team based on their performance? Kicking that hostage off the bridge for example?
That would be a cool way of introducing some replay footage into the story.

I don't like the idea of ripping of COD or whoever and wasting assets on building the player a recorder so he/she can upload their awesomest match moments to the web for everybody else to 'enjoy'. They make devices that can be purchased to do that off the shelf anyway, why take any time away from development of the story and gameplay to build one that probably wpuldn't incorporate the entire list of desired functionality anyway.

[Dieinthedark]

Thats an interesting angle Die. So not players recording their games for uploading to Youtube or ego stroking, but footage of how the player played the problem, and it being caught by security cams or handhelds and being reported on IN the game...like a news reel? So negative/positive public opinion and Executive pressures for the Rainbow team based on their performance? Kicking that hostage off the bridge for example?
That would be a cool way of introducing some replay footage into the story.

I don't like the idea of ripping of COD or whoever and wasting assets on building the player a recorder so he/she can upload their awesomest match moments to the web for everybody else to 'enjoy'. They make devices that can be purchased to do that off the shelf anyway, why take any time away from development of the story and gameplay to build one that probably wpuldn't incorporate the entire list of desired functionality anyway.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm getting at. I'm watching those videos that we've got so far because I'm like 98% sure that they (devs) have already mentioned doing something like this. I believe they said that if you make bad choices then maybe you'll get caught on the news or something and your publicity goes down, people doubt your choices. If I find that video I'll edit this post with a link! ^insert the old thumbs up smiley


GOT IT: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/11/11/rainbow-6-patriots-advancing-the-narrative-in-shooters.aspx

Video on top, from 12:40 mark til the end is all about how technology like cell, camera, video etc...in the game could be used. Curious what you think too. Doesn't specifically say what I thought but I think it's a reasonable conclusion.

[SolidSage]

Definately sounds like they have taken it into account and considered how to use it. What resonates most with me from the video, is that e True Patriots will likely be the one's manipulating footage of events and using it against Rainbow. Turning Rainbow's own clandestine SOP against them during the narrative. Edited footage being used to demonize Rainbow in training videos for terrorists seems almost a certain, but I am hoping that approach will spill over and spread into the passive civilian sector, affecting their interpretation of Rainbow's motives. maybe even resulting in local and federal forces being tasked with bringing Rainbow down.
It certainly creates the possibility of Rainbow having to be on the defensive more in this game. Could make insertion to the trouble spots a whole different ball game, if they can't rely on local Police securing the perimeters and then sending Rainbow in like rat terriers to eliminate the tangos. might require some stealth helo's and other advanced delivery systems.

I'm impressed that they bothered to consider that piece of the heritage, both SC and Rainbow have always been about blackout agencies and how they operate in complete secrecy, and the fact that that particular staple is no longer really available, at least in domestic troubles of a grander nature, is a great piece of Clancy lore to tackle in this game. Raising the bar in credibility and realism seems to be the objective here and it has a ton of potential.
I especially liked the comment about maturer, thinking gamers. There's plenty of content for the fresher faced among us, but the amount of serious mature titles seems to be thin, and I'm thankful that we can add another to that short list.

[Dieinthedark]

Definately sounds like they have taken it into account and considered how to use it. What resonates most with me from the video, is that e True Patriots will likely be the one's manipulating footage of events and using it against Rainbow. Turning Rainbow's own clandestine SOP against them during the narrative. Edited footage being used to demonize Rainbow in training videos for terrorists seems almost a certain, but I am hoping that approach will spill over and spread into the passive civilian sector, affecting their interpretation of Rainbow's motives. maybe even resulting in local and federal forces being tasked with bringing Rainbow down.
It certainly creates the possibility of Rainbow having to be on the defensive more in this game. Could make insertion to the trouble spots a whole different ball game, if they can't rely on local Police securing the perimeters and then sending Rainbow in like rat terriers to eliminate the tangos. might require some stealth helo's and other advanced delivery systems.

I'm impressed that they bothered to consider that piece of the heritage, both SC and Rainbow have always been about blackout agencies and how they operate in complete secrecy, and the fact that that particular staple is no longer really available, at least in domestic troubles of a grander nature, is a great piece of Clancy lore to tackle in this game. Raising the bar in credibility and realism seems to be the objective here and it has a ton of potential.
I especially liked the comment about maturer, thinking gamers. There's plenty of content for the fresher faced among us, but the amount of serious mature titles seems to be thin, and I'm thankful that we can add another to that short list.


^insert the i approve of this post smilely

[StealthR1]

To the former creative director David Sears: Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

[Dieinthedark]

To David Sears, turn around and get back in there! (@ StealthR1- nothing against your opinion, just stating mine)

[StealthR1]

To David Sears, turn around and get back in there! (@ StealthR1- nothing against your opinion, just stating mine)

No offense taken Dieinthedark. We're all aloud opinions, they're just like @$$____, every has one. Joking aside, I think we all want a good Rainbow Six game. That's why we're all in here. If Rainbow Six has to change, ok thats fine, but lately in my opinion the previous Rainbow Six games were a lot better. It seems to be changing for the worse. I don't want to see my favorite game changing for the worse. It just hard to play Vegas 1 and 2. They are boring. I want different locations, I want snow maps (see Rouge Spear), I want close quarter maps like the Big Ben map from Rainbow Six: Eagle Watch? I want a remake of Garage from Raven Shield, perhaps a decent version of Streets. Why can't Ubi make a good Rainbow Six game? I want multiplayer that works. Is that so much ask for my hard earned $60. Because EA and Activation's multiplayer works, why can't Ubi's?

[Dieinthedark]

No offense taken Dieinthedark. We're all aloud opinions, they're just like @$$____, every has one. Joking aside, I think we all want a good Rainbow Six game. That's why we're all in here. If Rainbow Six has to change, ok thats fine, but lately in my opinion the previous Rainbow Six games were a lot better. It seems to be changing for the worse. I don't want to see my favorite game changing for the worse. It just hard to play Vegas 1 and 2. They are boring. I want different locations, I want snow maps (see Rouge Spear), I want close quarter maps like the Big Ben map from Rainbow Six: Eagle Watch? I want a remake of Garage from Raven Shield, perhaps a decent version of Streets. Why can't Ubi make a good Rainbow Six game? I want multiplayer that works. Is that so much ask for my hard earned $60. Because EA and Activation's multiplayer works, why can't Ubi's?


QFT

I agree with this! It's kinda like what i've said before (somewhere idk). but ubi wants to keep their games fresh and new. Fine, by all means that's great. It's just that in that process they are loosing what made these games special in the first place. Splinter cell conviction is a perfect example. The game mechanics work incredibly well. by ubi's logic it should be a great game. That's not the case though. Sure, everything works well, and you might have the same voice actor and character models but regardless of how you cut the cake so to speak, it isn't splinter cell. And that's my fear for Ubi's pillar games. With AC, fine, they'll make it awesome. But even that franchise, it went from the serious almost sinister atmosphere to a hey im an Italian bad*** who kills people.

Ubi's just got this identity crisis on their hands...someone hurry and call Lifelock :cool:

[StealthR1]

Yea we are on the same page!

On a side note, Convictions was fun. But it's no Chaos Theory. CT is unbelievably d@^^n good.

[shobhit7777777]

To those who mention making a game "feel like a Rainbow Six game" I have a question: what was your first Rainbow Six game?

For me, and many of the other longtime fans, our first Rainbow Six game was played back in the last millenium. Those who came on board with Letdown or Vegas honestly don't know what a "Rainbow Six game" feels like. All you know is what a R6/CoD/Halo/BF hybrid feels like.


I started with the first R6 game. Played rogue spear and then Vegas. As a fan of the 'legacy' R6 games I enjoyed Vegas 1 tremendously. Vegas, while removing the planning sections in the previous games did add the solid Tactical CQB gameplay. Storming rooms is the core of ANY CQB squad based shooter and Vegas nailed it. Giving a lot of options to breach in and execute takedowns after takwdowns.
The previous games were more rigid and not very flexible in terms of real time tactics. The AI (both friendly and enemy) was lacking, the gunplay was not very interesting, and the actual mechanics of room breaching were pretty meh. Vegas fixed all of the above...at the cost of detailed team selection, equipment selection and mission planning.
This is how I saw the two games:

R6 Vegas: Like the Mumbai terror attacks. Multiple gunmen storm several buildings in a large metropolitan city. The CT forces now have to hastily organise a plan and be flexible in their tactics. Improvisation and CQB being key here as they clear massive buildings.

R6 1-Raven Shield: Like the Iranian embassy siege. Terrorists have are confined to a building, hostages present, demands made, classic HR mission. SAS formulates a detailed plan and goes in hard and fast. Based on meticulous planning and detailed intelligence gathering.

Both are tactical in their own right.
I hope that Patriots can deliver on both fronts.

Imagine a large building with many infil points and multiple rooms. You command one extra 3 man team. You use the the planning phase to give them way points and go-codes. You yourself are more flexible and can choose your infil point and place WP markers. Add Vegas style breaching and rappelling and you have a hybrid of detailed strategic plans and the CQB tactics.
Planning does help but it also allows for tactical flexibility and is more dynamic.

[SolidSage]

Played them all since Eagle. I didn't play Lockdown for long though. Rogue Spear was the best offering from the old guard, and I kinda miss selecting my operatives from a pool.....of those still living! That said, Vegas was the pinnacle of the new guard in game play terms. The story did start to get a little regurgitated, and was worse in Vegas 2, which I didn't play much because of burn out. V1 was great play though, the MP was best to date.

Gathering some of the quality old maps into Patriots would be nice;

- Airport
- Garage (of course)
- Streets
- Warehouse
- Casino (V1)


Rainbow needs new and fresh motivation for the player, it kind of devolved to "the bad guys are in there, go kill em". Some hostage scenarios and bomb defusing but the story almost became redundant. I don't know how they can get older players that original feeling of being invested in the story again. This angle they are pushinig with Patriots sounded good at the outset but it's basic hostage loss again really. New strong characters are needed, even Ding lost his appeal after a while.

Really enjoyed the Helo rappel insertions though, things like that should be reused.

[Jazz117Volkov]

^ the Garage... it is special.

[Pest_AWC]

Now that the Serellan CQB game "Takedown" got it's initial Kickstarter funding, I am done with the R6 series and the developers that refuse to interact with fans of the R6 franchise.

As far as I am concerned UBI can keep screwing up R6 and continue to disapoint shareholders as their games end up in the bargain bin within a couple months.

Any comment from an UBI employee on Patriot's future and direction in regards to fans of the original 3 R6 games? Didn't think so...See ya...

[Dieinthedark]

Mmmmk? Big companies simply can not keep up with huge forum boards like this one. They can't. The best they can do is read them and (hopefully) have their opinions influenced by our voices. But to each his own so whatever....

[Pest_AWC]

Mmmmk? Big companies simply can not keep up with huge forum boards like this one. They can't. The best they can do is read them and (hopefully) have their opinions influenced by our voices. But to each his own so whatever....

This forum barely has a few posts a day.

You would think that a project that has 30 to 100 people working on it would have one or two that had enough pride in their work to come here and chat with us.

As large of a company as UBI is they should definately have reps in here communicating and answering questions.

The problem is, then they would have to officially acknowledge things like dropping support for a game after a few months and releasing untested and broken patches like the 3rd Vegas 2 patch for the PC. It's just a big joke to them that "high stakes" mode only worked for one round on PC and they couldn't spend 5 minutes to fix it.

[Justin-x]

Any comment from an UBI employee on Patriot's future and direction in regards to fans of the original 3 R6 games? Didn't think so...See ya...

I'm just wondering Pest, what do you honestly expect them to say in answering your question? Because I'm pretty sure their honest answer would be "we want to expand our audience and we also want to contend with market's biggest shooter so we can't worry about a niche market like hardcores right now". Would you persecute and berate them for this answer though? I know your a fan of the older R6 fans and I'm not trying to target your hardcore preference or anything but I just want to know what you would expect of them even if they did answer.

[Dcopymope]

Now that the Serellan CQB game "Takedown" got it's initial Kickstarter funding, I am done with the R6 series and the developers that refuse to interact with fans of the R6 franchise.

As far as I am concerned UBI can keep screwing up R6 and continue to disapoint shareholders as their games end up in the bargain bin within a couple months.

Any comment from an UBI employee on Patriot's future and direction in regards to fans of the original 3 R6 games? Didn't think so...See ya...

If Ubi Soft continues to ignore their real fanbase that's keeping these games going all so they can satisfy the non existent casual fanbase, then there is a good chance that R6 and all the other Tom Clancy titles may very well eventually end up in the bargain bin. After the Vegas series, and Ghost Recon Future Soldier, more people will be more reserved before deciding to buy any future Tom Clancy titles from Ubi Soft, regardless of what they show at E3, as promises have been broken many times before. With that said, Takedown is now my most anticipated game. Takedown might be the game that puts an end to R6 and Ghost Recon, being that its a game promised to appeal specifically to the hardcore fanbase that truly make up the majority of those that buy Rainbow Six & Ghost Recon games.

[Jomarip]

My Opinion, They will hit gold for a nice size population if they have he following:

Option for Pre-mission strategy (Sandtable) for single and multiplayer storyline and maps with waypoints or some guidance system (removal of points optional for MP)
Remove or adjust the 3rd person Cover view, to eliminate seeing around corners, some people say just add a dynamic lean. I don't know, but seeing around corners... nono
Reduce some of the "future tech* shown in the concept footage/target <from my understand R6 is not about that> (particularly seeing through objects)
CONTRAST CONTRAST CONTRAST! Show the world this is a whole different way of playing a FPS. RUN & GUN = DEAD!

[Dcopymope]

My Opinion, They will hit gold for a nice size population if they have he following:

Option for Pre-mission strategy (Sandtable) for single and multiplayer storyline and maps with waypoints or some guidance system (removal of points optional for MP)
Remove or adjust the 3rd person Cover view, to eliminate seeing around corners, some people say just add a dynamic lean. I don't know, but seeing around corners... nono
Reduce some of the "future tech* shown in the concept footage/target <from my understand R6 is not about that> (particularly seeing through objects)
CONTRAST CONTRAST CONTRAST! Show the world this is a whole different way of playing a FPS. RUN & GUN = DEAD!


In other words, make a game with options that would make real Rainbow SIx fans want to play, the only people that are really buying Rainbow Six games, and they may have a chance at striking gold. If they don't, then Ubi Soft might as well throw their expectations of striking gold with this game out the window right now, its not going to happen, especially now that they will be competing with Serellan studios Takedown. If Takedown shapes up to be the game they are promising it will be, and Ubi Soft doesn't respond in kind, then they will loose a lot more fans than they already have for sure.

[Pest_AWC]

If Ubi Soft continues to ignore their real fanbase that's keeping these games going all so they can satisfy the non existent casual fanbase, then there is a good chance that R6 and all the other Tom Clancy titles may very well eventually end up in the bargain bin..

If you go to Amazon.com, you will see that every Tom Clancy game is already in the "Bargain Bin" for between $5 and $9.99.

Vegas, Vegas 2, Endwar, HAWX, GRAW, GR:Adavance Warfighter, Splinter Cell...all bargain bin as well as many other UBI games...Farcry 2, Call of Juarez...

UBI wants the quick buck and then drops support.

[EvilPixieGrrr]

Hey gang,

Every week I pass along your feedback to higher-ups on the Ubisoft ladder, so your feelings and questions are not being ignored. Just so you all know. :)

Patriots is still fairly early in development -- it's not due for release until next year. I'm sure as development progresses you'll have more answers to your questions and concerns.

[Menacewithin]

I think the big picture here is that we want a tactical game. If you want to sit back with a sniper rifle and "camp" then that is your choice, it doesn't make things less tactical. There is also nothing wrong with moving and shooting... I say that differently than "run and gun" because sprinting around, hopping over stuff, turning and shooting someone in the face 100m away is not tactical in the least... There is something extremely wrong with game mechanics these days in how someone can be moving so fast... yet sight in and kill someone so effectively... but someone with a Light machine gun can spray a room and somehow the person inside remains unscathed.

[Pest_AWC]

Hey gang,

Every week I pass along your feedback to higher-ups on the Ubisoft ladder, so your feelings and questions are not being ignored. Just so you all know. :)

Patriots is still fairly early in development -- it's not due for release until next year. I'm sure as development progresses you'll have more answers to your questions and concerns.

Well, thanks for stopping in and saying something. :)

Are you really able to get questions answered or will it be like Vegas where nobody tells us anything until after it is released in exclusive interviews to certain game magazines and web sites?

[Jomarip]

Hey gang,

Every week I pass along your feedback to higher-ups on the Ubisoft ladder, so your feelings and questions are not being ignored. Just so you all know. :)

Patriots is still fairly early in development -- it's not due for release until next year. I'm sure as development progresses you'll have more answers to your questions and concerns.

We definitely appreciate your feedback and please let us know how we should approach making our sentiments and thoughts clearest and more consolidated to increase the probability of it being taken into serious consideration and make your parsing of information more efficient.

In addition, feedback like this and opening up dialogue about things would be nice. Even some threads started by you guys just to get some specific ideas or thoughts about subjects rolling around would be phenomenal.

[Pest_AWC]

In addition, feedback like this and opening up dialogue about things would be nice. Even some threads started by you guys just to get some specific ideas or thoughts about subjects rolling around would be phenomenal.

LOL! I wasn't going to go that far. UBI doesn't do that.

The last time UBI had two way dialog was just before the release of R6 Ravenshield when they were nice enough to explain why they didn't take "bullet drop over distance" into consideration. They haven't spoken to the community since other than to tell us what features were going to be in the game, but only after they already released that info to whatever magazine was giving them a positive cover story with nothing negative.

[Jomarip]

oh. :-(

[EvilPixieGrrr]

Well, thanks for stopping in and saying something. :)

Are you really able to get questions answered or will it be like Vegas where nobody tells us anything until after it is released in exclusive interviews to certain game magazines and web sites?

Basically what happens is I forward questions and concerns on and they are reviewed by folks higher up in the company. Sometimes I get answers back that are passed along to you guys. Sometimes not. But, the Forum Managers and Community teams are definitely paying attention to what you have to say on matters.


We definitely appreciate your feedback and please let us know how we should approach making our sentiments and thoughts clearest and more consolidated to increase the probability of it being taken into serious consideration and make your parsing of information more efficient.

In addition, feedback like this and opening up dialogue about things would be nice. Even some threads started by you guys just to get some specific ideas or thoughts about subjects rolling around would be phenomenal.

The best you all can do is clearly state what you see as positives and negatives so it's easiest for me to pass along. I won't tell you all to not get overly emotional about it because I, too, am a hard-core gamer and I can get rather passionate on my views of franchises I love. You DON'T want to get me started on what I thought about F3AR. lol!

[Dieinthedark]

You would think that a project that has 30 to 100 people working on it would have one or two that had enough pride in their work to come here and chat with us.

As large of a company as UBI is they should definately have reps in here communicating and answering questions.



@EvilPiexieGrrr - thanks for being that someone

But I am curious about one thing. What direction is RB6P taking now, i mean since David Sears and the rest of them got removed. Did his/their vision die with their removal?

[Dcopymope]

@EvilPiexieGrrr - thanks for being that someone

But I am curious about one thing. What direction is RB6P taking now, i mean since David Sears and the rest of them got removed. Did his/their vision die with their removal?

They have promised that the concept David Sears established will remain intact, which is not necessarily a good thing given that Ubi Soft is also satisfied with absolute garbage like Ghost Recon Future Soldier.

[Dieinthedark]

David Sears didn't work on GRFS so I'm not sure how that's related...
Honestly, I see a lot of potential with "his" vision for RB6P

[sameer_monier]

@EvilPiexieGrrr - thanks for being that someone

But I am curious about one thing. What direction is RB6P taking now, i mean since David Sears and the rest of them got removed. Did his/their vision die with their removal?

+1, that needs an answer, and a small something to add, who replaced them ?!, that would help alot.

I hope Sears is actually involved one way or another, making sure R6P got the tactical vision he had and the heavy story he wanted.

[Dieinthedark]

Yep, for all we know they could have brought someone in that wants to make Vegas2.5 or Rainbow Six Miami :rolleyes: David Sears wanted what I'll coin "modern tactical". Still has tactics and requires tactics but perhaps not quite as deep as old-school RB6

[Dcopymope]

David Sears didn't work on GRFS so I'm not sure how that's related...
Honestly, I see a lot of potential with "his" vision for RB6P

Ultimately, Sears works for Ubi Soft as most people understand. He will do what his employers tell him to do if he wants to keep his job. It doesn't matter what project Sears didn't work on or what he promises. Its irrelevant because its not his words, its the words of the group he works for. Ubi Soft has made it very clear that dumbing down their games to make them more marketable to this so called casual fanbase (of which I have proven is non-existent for Rainbow Six & Ghost Recon based on the unit sales) is an official policy of the company. The article below explains why we get crap like Vegas, Future Soldier and Splinter Cell: Conviction.


Of course having great brands is all well and good, but there's a fine line between releasing game after game in a strong franchise and turning a franchise into a cash cow that's nearly run dry. Detoc doesn't appear to be worried about running Ubisoft's cherished brands into the ground, however. "There's no such thing as too many game sequels," he said. "The real question is: Is it good? And if it's good, you'll want to play it again. I don't know if you've played Rainbow Six lately, but we could give you another Rainbow Six right now... As long as you give me my money's worth, I remain a happy customer. Everyone always wants more and we make a very serious effort in upholding [the quality] of our games from one version to the next."

He added, "Splinter Cell in particular, I think every single one of them has had in the 90s review scores. I don't think we have disappointed customers with the quality of the content. I think the thing we can do better is to make it more accessible, if anything. And remember, even if you sell one million units of Splinter Cell on 360, there's still [about] 80% of the base that hasn't played it. So how many of those guys are going to be the guys buying the next one?"

So with publishers like THQ, Activision and EA ahead of Ubisoft, how can the company climb the ladder, and is a #1 position even possible with a juggernaut like EA out there? "Nothing is impossible," said Detoc. "Technically everybody in the publishing business right now wants to be #1... The natural intent for all of us is to try to be the largest publisher. And so what does it take? How long is impossible to answer; it's an if/ever answer. But 'what does it take?' is the more interesting question, and I think what it takes is to continue to create the best products. I know it's a basic, simple answer and it's an easy answer, but if we continue to make great products, people will continue to buy them. 'What is a good product?' is a more difficult question to answer because it's not just about critical acclaim; it's about critical commercial success. We want to have brands with broader appeal.We want to continue to make games that are really high-end... but also incorporate more of what we have not done enough of before, which is the user friendliness. Make Splinter Cell a game that can be played by everybody, as opposed to [hardcore] gamers."

[I]
Source: http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/feb2007/id20070216_499321_page_2.htm

In other words, they no longer care about actually putting in an effort into making their games with in-depth gameplay that would require even a modicum of actual intellect or average IQ and patience. Just make it more "accessible" for the general public who’s average attention span is five minutes. Dumb it down until it can’t be dumbed down any further, so that even a child can play it with relative ease. As long as they are making a quick buck, all is well. This is the mind set of most of the companies out there, which is why almost all of their games are carbon copies of each other, no creativity whatsoever, and henceforth no real competition in the truest sense of the term. So I don't know what "potential" you could possibly see in Patriots when its being made by a company with this kind of mind set.

[Jomarip]

JeanSebastien Decant ‏ @pik0ti
I believe this is who they put in charge/replaced Sears with. He was the creative director for Heavy Rain, I believe

[Justin-x]

@Dcopymope

Stop trying to sidewind the words, he is saying that he liked the look of Patriots under Sear's vision and development. Almost all of the text and words that came from the GI magazine and the interviews had come from Sear's creative vision which now might be scrapped from the game . You may not have liked the way Patriots was going but stop trying to press your resentment of it on everyone else.

[SolidSage]

Do we know 'why' the team was replaced yet?

[Dcopymope]

Do we know 'why' the team was replaced yet?

They claimed the team was replaced to work on another project in development.

[EvilPixieGrrr]

@EvilPiexieGrrr - thanks for being that someone

But I am curious about one thing. What direction is RB6P taking now, i mean since David Sears and the rest of them got removed. Did his/their vision die with their removal?

You're welcome. :)

I don't know what direction the game is going now. The Forum Managers don't know any details yet, especially with the release date being so far out from now. I can't wait to hear more, though. I love me some R6!

[sameer_monier]

You're welcome. :)

I don't know what direction the game is going now. The Forum Managers don't know any details yet, especially with the release date being so far out from now. I can't wait to hear more, though. I love me some R6!

Can you just pass one request from one of the forum members ?!, Can you tell the devs team to stick to Sears Vision while adding more hardcore stuff to the mix, I know some people may not agree with me, but others will also agree like Die & Shobhit, also the more important thing is not to delay the game to 2014 haha, I really want R6P Early 2013, and I can't wait to see it again at E3.

[SolidSage]

They claimed the team was replaced to work on another project in development.

That would be the best case scenario if Sears and Co really did brainstorm Patriots as a concept. Everything they explained and showed of their vision was really very good and a nice direction for Rainbow.
More valuable as Architects perhaps, rather than builders.