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View Full Version : Why are TFT's Screens selling more and more?



EFileTahi-A
03-06-2005, 06:34 AM
The MAIN (there is also the price related reason but I place it in second) reason why TFT's screens are selling more and more it's because of of the looks of it nothing else. I know persons who sells computer hardware and they say to me that when ppl want to buy a TFT screen they just want two know 3 things: The available sizes, their prices and between the choices which one is prettier. They (most of them) do not actually ask for the screens maximum resolution nor the advantages / disadvantages of TFT vs CRT screens, because in their minds, if they are more expensive they are automatilly better.

I see many companies spending thousands of Euros on CRT replacements by TFTs screens, because of the true fact, that they are much prettier. I remember my ex-ex-ex-boss getting an 15inch TFT screen for 1000" back on year 2000 just because (and once again) it was much prettier and also it would impress anyone who would enter his office (I heard him saying this to his secratary)...

So, we are just talking here about PURE IGNORANCE and APPEARANCES. These kind of persons are the ones responsables for the TFTs sales success. Since a large portion of computer users are "new-comers" who only brought a computer to have internet acess so that they can call themselfs adepts of "moderm technologies" (for older persons), send emails, chat with their friends and play games (younger persons) or business type guys who just use Word, Excell and Outlook and call them selfs "computer experts" the chances of someone selling them a new "new sophisticated (NOT)" TFT screen is truly amazing...

Ok, this is my point of view. Post what you think of it or if you disagree explain why. Also, add the answer for the following question:

Why should anyone buy an 21/24inch TFT screen?

JG27_Arklight
03-06-2005, 06:38 AM
I'll tell you why TFTs are more popular with some people:

1. Space saving.
2. Trendy styling.
3. Light weight. (good for those who carry their monitors with them I guess. LOL)


Here is why TFTs are not popular with me:

1. Ghosting.
2. Higher cost.
3. Having to deal with native resolutions.
4. Lower life expectancy.

EFileTahi-A
03-06-2005, 06:42 AM
I think you are talking about the diferences between the two screens, not what makes ppl buying an TFT screen in general... Yet, you did not answered my 21/24inc question http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG27_Arklight
03-06-2005, 06:44 AM
The differences between the two dictate the purpose of purchase.

stevenwhiting
03-06-2005, 06:49 AM
Ghosting will only appear if you get one with poor refresh rates. I just picked one out for my sister, 10milli is the refresh and there is NO ghosting at all. The TFT takes up little room and is nice and light.

Krycek1972
03-06-2005, 06:51 AM
Thats not refresh rate thats persistance of the screen.

JG27_Arklight
03-06-2005, 06:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stevenwhiting:
Ghosting will only appear if you get one with poor refresh rates. I just picked one out for my sister, 10milli is the refresh and there is NO ghosting at all. The TFT takes up little room and is nice and light. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although the response times (I think that is what you meant http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) are dropping, it doesn't change the fact that the other factors I mentioned are still present.

TFTs are great for some people, but IMO, not for gamers.

Megoloman
03-06-2005, 06:53 AM
I believe u mean response rate. A slow response rate leads to ghosting.

JG27_Arklight
03-06-2005, 06:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megoloman:
I believe u mean response rate. A slow response rate leads to ghosting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who are you talking too?

lol

EFileTahi-A
03-06-2005, 06:54 AM
So, why would a person buy a 21inch or bigger TFT screen?

Megoloman
03-06-2005, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megoloman:
I believe u mean response rate. A slow response rate leads to ghosting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Edit: Oops sorry I was responding to stevenwhiting and Krycek1972.

JG27_Arklight
03-06-2005, 07:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megoloman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megoloman:
I believe u mean response rate. A slow response rate leads to ghosting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Edit: Oops sorry I was responding to stevenwhiting and Krycek1972. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Np, I have been up so long it probably doesn't matter anyways. lol

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BlueSabor
03-06-2005, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EFileTahi-A:
The MAIN (there is also the price related reason but I place it in second) reason why TFT's screens are selling more and more it's because of of the looks of it nothing else. I know persons who sells computer hardware and they say to me that when ppl want to buy a TFT screen they just want two know 3 things: The available sizes, their prices and between the choices which one is prettier. They (most of them) do not actually ask for the screens maximum resolution nor the advantages / disadvantages of TFT vs CRT screens, because in their minds, if they are more expensive they are automatilly better.

I see many companies spending thousands of Euros on CRT replacements by TFTs screens, because of the true fact, that they are much prettier. I remember my ex-ex-ex-boss getting an 15inch TFT screen for 1000" back on year 2000 just because (and once again) it was much prettier and also it would impress anyone who would enter his office (I heard him saying this to his secratary)...

So, we are just talking here about PURE IGNORANCE and APPEARANCES. These kind of persons are the ones responsables for the TFTs sales success. Since a large portion of computer users are "new-comers" who only brought a computer to have internet acess so that they can call themselfs adepts of "moderm technologies" (for older persons), send emails, chat with their friends and play games (younger persons) or business type guys who just use Word, Excell and Outlook and call them selfs "computer experts" the chances of someone selling them a new "new sophisticated (NOT)" TFT screen is truly amazing...

Ok, this is my point of view. Post what you think of it or if you disagree explain why. Also, add the answer for the following question:

Why should anyone buy an 21/24inch TFT screen? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with what you say.

Also in my view the main reason people buy TFT screens is space.

Why should anyone buy an 21/24inch TFT screen? i suppose its like going to the pictures
it's on the big screen more immersion" more ambiance!"

Rgds,
PWH.

JG27_Arklight
03-06-2005, 07:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PWH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EFileTahi-A:
The MAIN (there is also the price related reason but I place it in second) reason why TFT's screens are selling more and more it's because of of the looks of it nothing else. I know persons who sells computer hardware and they say to me that when ppl want to buy a TFT screen they just want two know 3 things: The available sizes, their prices and between the choices which one is prettier. They (most of them) do not actually ask for the screens maximum resolution nor the advantages / disadvantages of TFT vs CRT screens, because in their minds, if they are more expensive they are automatilly better.

I see many companies spending thousands of Euros on CRT replacements by TFTs screens, because of the true fact, that they are much prettier. I remember my ex-ex-ex-boss getting an 15inch TFT screen for 1000" back on year 2000 just because (and once again) it was much prettier and also it would impress anyone who would enter his office (I heard him saying this to his secratary)...

So, we are just talking here about PURE IGNORANCE and APPEARANCES. These kind of persons are the ones responsables for the TFTs sales success. Since a large portion of computer users are "new-comers" who only brought a computer to have internet acess so that they can call themselfs adepts of "moderm technologies" (for older persons), send emails, chat with their friends and play games (younger persons) or business type guys who just use Word, Excell and Outlook and call them selfs "computer experts" the chances of someone selling them a new "new sophisticated (NOT)" TFT screen is truly amazing...

Ok, this is my point of view. Post what you think of it or if you disagree explain why. Also, add the answer for the following question:

Why should anyone buy an 21/24inch TFT screen? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with what you say.

Also in my view the main reason people buy TFT screens is space.

Why should anyone buy an 21/24inch TFT screen? i suppose its like going to the pictures
it's on the big screen more immersion" more ambiance!"

Rgds,
PWH. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed.

The only reason I can see to buy a 24inch TFT would be to do CAD and video work on a desk with somewhat limited space/depth.

BlueSabor
03-06-2005, 07:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG27_Arklight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PWH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EFileTahi-A:
The MAIN (there is also the price related reason but I place it in second) reason why TFT's screens are selling more and more it's because of of the looks of it nothing else. I know persons who sells computer hardware and they say to me that when ppl want to buy a TFT screen they just want two know 3 things: The available sizes, their prices and between the choices which one is prettier. They (most of them) do not actually ask for the screens maximum resolution nor the advantages / disadvantages of TFT vs CRT screens, because in their minds, if they are more expensive they are automatilly better.

I see many companies spending thousands of Euros on CRT replacements by TFTs screens, because of the true fact, that they are much prettier. I remember my ex-ex-ex-boss getting an 15inch TFT screen for 1000" back on year 2000 just because (and once again) it was much prettier and also it would impress anyone who would enter his office (I heard him saying this to his secratary)...

So, we are just talking here about PURE IGNORANCE and APPEARANCES. These kind of persons are the ones responsables for the TFTs sales success. Since a large portion of computer users are "new-comers" who only brought a computer to have internet acess so that they can call themselfs adepts of "moderm technologies" (for older persons), send emails, chat with their friends and play games (younger persons) or business type guys who just use Word, Excell and Outlook and call them selfs "computer experts" the chances of someone selling them a new "new sophisticated (NOT)" TFT screen is truly amazing...

Ok, this is my point of view. Post what you think of it or if you disagree explain why. Also, add the answer for the following question:

Why should anyone buy an 21/24inch TFT screen? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with what you say.

Also in my view the main reason people buy TFT screens is space.

Why should anyone buy an 21/24inch TFT screen? i suppose its like going to the pictures
it's on the big screen more immersion" more ambiance!"

Rgds,
PWH. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed.

The only reason I can see to buy a 24inch TFT would be to do CAD and video work on a desk with somewhat limited space/depth. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed.

Rgds,
PWH.

archer49d
03-06-2005, 07:45 AM
I have TFTs for two reasons...

Limited space on desk (listed before)
Less straining on the eyes...
After all a CRT is LITERALLY shooting electrons into your eyes, thats the way it works, LCD is displaying the image, and if you put a gauss meter up to it, it reads 0, while CRTs get it up to around 5, sometimes 10.

EFileTahi-A
03-06-2005, 07:47 AM
Hmmm... So, I see some ppl agreeding with my opinion... And I thought I would be crucified by my words...

GOOD http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EFileTahi-A
03-06-2005, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by archer49d:
I have TFTs for two reasons...

Limited space on desk (listed before)
Less straining on the eyes...
After all a CRT is LITERALLY shooting electrons into your eyes, thats the way it works, LCD is displaying the image, and if you put a gauss meter up to it, it reads 0, while CRTs get it up to around 5, sometimes 10. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My eyes get truly strained if I work with TFTs screens because, for some good reason, I have to give more effort to my eyes with such screens... Also, I notice ppl complaining about CRT screens about eye stressing, so, ppl lower the resolution of the screen thinking that higher res are the cause of this, but as soon I see the screens I emmidiatly notice a low refresh rate, "the ignorant ones" do not know what is "refresh-rate" nor how to change it... 60hz is a chaos...

Thks for your post, althought I would prefer to listen your opinion regarding the threads topic... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SOF_Timber
03-06-2005, 09:54 AM
A major corperation would buy a LCD monitor for engery savings, desk space & less eye strain.

If I wasn't a FPS gamer I would have a 23"+ LCD because they don't make CRT's (mines a 21" Sony CRT) that big. The trouble comes in on having a videocard that has the power to run these at the extreme rez they need...such as the Apple 30 incher. If you look at the picture of BBmak1980's monitor you just know SH3 would look great (I'm sure everyone here would love to have that monitor) on it if the game was capable of running at his native rez...I understand his grounds for complant & disapointment. But will he get the proper frame rates without a SLI setup I don't know. Which is the reason I think UBI limited the rez in the game...for frame rate issues.

So why would people get a 21"+ LCD? Same reason they get 42"+ plasma TV's...because they look great, they can afford it & (unless your a FPS gamer) why not.

Antrodemus
03-06-2005, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The MAIN (there is also the price related reason but I place it in second) reason why TFT's screens are selling more and more it's because of of the looks of it nothing else. I know persons who sells computer hardware and they say to me that when ppl want to buy a TFT screen they just want two know 3 things: The available sizes, their prices and between the choices which one is prettier. They (most of them) do not actually ask for the screens maximum resolution nor the advantages / disadvantages of TFT vs CRT screens, because in their minds, if they are more expensive they are automatilly better. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are, for the most part, absolutely correct...

I sell PCs all day long, and it can take up to an hour to "persuade" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif someone to part with 500 for a gaming base-system, but you only need to show them a TFT (unpowered!) that costs up to 2 3rds the price of the entire system, and they get all weak at the knees. Sad, but true. it's all "Jones vs. Jones". "My neighbour has one, so I want one".

Same goes for WinXP. I happen to think that it has many, many benefits over previous incarnations, but none of that matters a jot to 99% of people, they simply want what the folks next door have, because they can't be seen to be "old-hat". Again, sad, but true.

A.

Jose.MaC
03-06-2005, 11:08 AM
I work with CAD and bought a 17" TFT because the space and the flat screen -so cannot doubt about paralel lines! Anyway, prior I had a 17" CRT witch never worked very well (and yes, I played a lot both with resolution and refresh rates, but this Philips never gave a good response). But first seeked info about this monitor and waited until I got a good price.

But for serious gaming, I've got a nice Toshiba monitor!

JavDog
03-06-2005, 11:15 AM
For text, TFT. For gaming, CRT. and when I say CRT, I MEAN 22" CRT.

Price wise, there is NO reason anyone could not afford one. And once you over 20", you can't go back to anything smaller.

I can even do the 3D thing(connect a ****le and page flipper 3D glasses) with a CRT, a TFT can't.

jack010
03-06-2005, 12:49 PM
LCD is better for eyes (most important thing for me). Is lighter, easier to clean the desk around the monitor, etc.
I play a lot of flightsims and shooters.
I have ViewSonic Vp201b 20.1" 16ms response time. No ghosting at all. Native resolution 1600x1200, and I would never go back to smaller one.
It's a lot better then my last Sony CRT.
I hope that Silent Hunter III will support 1600x1200 resolution, almost all games support even higher resolutions.

Cant wait for SHIII just few more days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
And sorry for my bad english.

archer49d
03-06-2005, 01:36 PM
In the demstration room in the office (at work) we have a 24" LCD monitor that displays holographic 3D images visible from 180 degrees around the monitor, the image literally is coming out of the monitor... let's see a CRT do that.

Antrodemus
03-06-2005, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>let's see a CRT do that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol

What a ridiculous claim... why on Earth should a CRT feel any less of a monitor for not being able to?

Do you play your games from half-way round the side of your desk?

A.

JavDog
03-06-2005, 01:57 PM
I heard about those when they first came out.

But that's not apples to apples. Should I compare an Imax projection to a rear projection TV?

I love new tech, don't get me wrong, but TFT is an adaption from laptop technology, by business users.

TFT is still great visually. In fact, I do want to buy a 20 something inch, widscreen monster in the future. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

archer49d
03-06-2005, 03:55 PM
First off that's not a gaming monitor, we use it to display 3d object for clients who are sitting around it, what more, the point is that something like that is impossible to achieve with a CRT... Pretty much I'm saying that LCDs have more capabilities that CRT monitors, at least in the business sense.

Pr0metheus 1962
03-07-2005, 07:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SOF_Timber:
But will he get the proper frame rates without a SLI setup I don't know. Which is the reason I think UBI limited the rez in the game...for frame rate issues. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If so it's a very poor reason. In a year or two, computers will easily be able to handle very complex games at higher resolutions. It's just a matter of time until the technology catches up, and then we'll have a game that plays faster than anyone needs it to with everything maxed out, but with a resolution that's well below an acceptable standard.

EFileTahi-A
03-07-2005, 09:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by archer49d:
In the demstration room in the office (at work) we have a 24" LCD monitor that displays holographic 3D images visible from 180 degrees around the monitor, the image literally is coming out of the monitor... let's see a CRT do that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by archer49d:
First off that's not a gaming monitor, we use it to display 3d object for clients who are sitting around it, what more, the point is that something like that is impossible to achieve with a CRT... Pretty much I'm saying that LCDs have more capabilities that CRT monitors, at least in the business sense. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Althought the threads topic about TFT monitors, I was refering desktop monitors only.
Yes, TFTs give the flexibility of creating some fancy things, they actualy are very good for showing advertisement on streets, either on a huge TFT screen in some building or on a small one in the bus.
But unfortunately they are stupidiously expensive and they greatly lack on image quality when compared to CRTs. They were first introduced as a comun thing between notebooks, that makes sense, because notebooks are need to be portable and lighter as possible, but why would I buy an TFT screen for my desktop computer?

- Because of weight? Well, am actually not concern about the weight my desk is carrying as I don't plan either to carry my screen on my back everwhere. A desktop screen is meant to be fixed. For that I would buy a notebook...

- Because of the looks? Jeez, when am using an screen (tv, computer screen, whatever) I am always interested on what the screens is showing me not in the case where the screen is fitted in, it's like going to an art museum, ppl get interested on the picture not the frame. But hey, some ppl devote much attention on "appearances"...

- Space saving? A desk with space defenciencies on handling an CRT computer screen is in needing of cleaning or to be "junk disposed", unless you want to place your screen in some fancy place, like celling or wall, which make me believe it would never be your primary screen...

- Price? Too d*mn expensive!!! Which such price I would buy a TOP CRT screen...

- Image quality? You must be kidding me, for a color-blind such me working with video / 3D / 2D imagery is like having an duel with a sword with no blade... Yet, TFTs have their pixels size fixed, which make any RES diferent it's native one as odd as Michel Jackson... 20ms, 16ms reponse, yeah yeah, what about 0ms response? I can see always ghosting...

- Eye Stressing? My eyes get really stressed with the TFT image, my boss had to replace my TFT screen long ago with some CRT screen...

So, when I go to buy a screen for my computer the first thing I have in count is the price then image quality (dotpich) and size in inchs... To be honest I never wondered... in fact, not even begun to wonder if the screen I would gonna get would be light, space saving and how much "attractive" would it be...

So, please, why should I buy an TFT screen as primary one? Even my wife hates them and was not affected by their flat appealing shape... I would buy one (if they were cheaper to cover all its disadvantages) for debuging, as it only would show text which TFT can greatly handle...

Oh by the way, there is some 360º crt screens in some comercial center not too far from my house...

MBeck
03-07-2005, 09:53 AM
Well you all seem to forget one thing:

1) Yes they are more expensive - no argument there.
2) They use about 1/4 - 1/5 of the power of a same size CRT (huge savings on power). Thus they generate less heat. Less heat means less stress on the AC during the summer. Im aware that less heat is also saving on the heating bill during winter but the AC savings is bigger than the heat extra cost.

If you put all this together in a businesscase (like we did where I work) then these babys have earned themselves.

We have not purchased a CRT in the last 2-3 years.

EFileTahi-A
03-07-2005, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MBeck:
Well you all seem to forget one thing:

1) Yes they are more expensive - no argument there.
2) They use about 1/4 - 1/5 of the power of a same size CRT (huge savings on power). Thus they generate less heat. Less heat means less stress on the AC during the summer. Im aware that less heat is also saving on the heating bill during winter but the AC savings is bigger than the heat extra cost.

If you put all this together in a businesscase (like we did where I work) then these babys have earned themselves.

We have not purchased a CRT in the last 2-3 years. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you're right. I actually forgot to mention this. And, why would I forget to mention such thing?
Maybe because that might not be an issue at all, and to prove that, only you mention it. Maybe for a large company who haves too many computers (like you sort of said it) its a good thing, but honestly, for a comum user, me thinks that it barely fitts into a discussion topic.

If the heat and power cosume would be an issue at all, ppl would not buy "high end" video cards and CPUs, because as you certainly know, they are the main power s*ckers and hazard heat sources from the computer... It's because of CPUs and Video Cards that 560watt PSUs exist...

So, I guess I vote to have high quality at low cost with non-revelant power and heat side effects...

SOF_Timber
03-07-2005, 12:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SOF_Timber:
But will he get the proper frame rates without a SLI setup I don't know. Which is the reason I think UBI limited the rez in the game...for frame rate issues. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If so it's a very poor reason. In a year or two, computers will easily be able to handle very complex games at higher resolutions. It's just a matter of time until the technology catches up, and then we'll have a game that plays faster than anyone needs it to with everything maxed out, but with a resolution that's well below an acceptable standard. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's a non-issue with UBI. "In a year or two" SH3 will surely be in the discount bin with a price of $9.98 or less. They care about the next 12 months (if that)only...when the game is hot. If it sells well there might be a expansion and SH4 will be talked about or in the works. They want it to run smoothly on the average machine without any hassels. Valve (the maker of Half-Life 2) did a sort of study on all the people who bought HL2 (don't have the link to the study). It shows that the majority of people who game have pretty weak computers. Yes... the geeks and the well-off have top tier equipment (I do)but I'm fairly sure that SH3 is looking for a broader type of gamer than computer geeks, the wealthy or hard-core sub nuts. They want the kids...who don't have $3000.+ to spend. They probably have a hand-me-down from dad or a $1000/$1500 computer if they are working or going to college. I wish the devlopers would answer the question of why they limited the rez. I'm so disapointed that it won't go up to 1600x1200 that I can only shake my head in wonder how or why they made such a blunder as this. It will hurt them in the reviews and my guess is that "kids" will not be interested in a sim as much as they hope. Time will tell...

Pr0metheus 1962
03-07-2005, 12:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SOF_Timber:
In a year or two" SH3 will surely be in the discount bin with a price of $9.98 or less. They care about the next 12 months (if that)only...when the game is hot... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they want to make an expansion or a sequel, they had better care about the longer-term. If this game is in the bargain bin at $9.99 in a year, that's pretty much a guarantee that there will be no expansion and no sequel.

EFileTahi-A
03-07-2005, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus

If they want to make an expansion or a sequel, they had better care about the longer-term. If this game is in the bargain bin at $9.99 in a year, that's pretty much a guarantee that there will be no expansion and no sequel. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could not agree more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 01:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SOF_Timber:
In a year or two" SH3 will surely be in the discount bin with a price of $9.98 or less. They care about the next 12 months (if that)only...when the game is hot... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they want to make an expansion or a sequel, they had better care about the longer-term. If this game is in the bargain bin at $9.99 in a year, that's pretty much a guarantee that there will be no expansion and no sequel. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Agreed.

*Cough*LOMAC*Cough*

UBI dropped LOMAC like a hot potatoe. If it wasn't for ED picking it up and creating an add-on, LOMAC development would be completely finished.

Cruz1317
03-07-2005, 02:37 PM
Ok...I probably shouldn't (since I seem in to be in the vast minority here) but I will respond to this anyway.

First of all to the guy, who stated that he can see any ghosting no matter what the response time is...please...I would like to see that in a realistic test...but anyway.

For some people it is really a matter of space and eye stress (I count myself as one of those) although it has been said before. And for some people the style and looks of their pc is also important (count myself in for one of those, too). Just because some of you do not care about that, doesn't make the ones who do lesser pc users. See when I build my pc I had been saving money for it for a long time, because I didn't want to make any compromises. So I build everything top notch (at least it was a year ago) and equipped it with passive watercooling so it is completely silent. During the whole process of building the machine i always kept an eye on the look of things. And this huge crt, just didn't fit.

Does that make someone who uses a tft someone who just follows a trend? I don't think so...because if I would just follow trends, i would have just bought a standard machine of the rack in the local Saturn. (Radioshack for you american guys, don't know what the equivalent is in GB.)

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 02:51 PM
In all actuality, it doesn't really matter why people buy what they do.

Trends, prices, style, etc. are all moot issues because poeple can buy whatever the hell they want. lol

Cruz1317
03-07-2005, 03:00 PM
good point

MBeck
03-07-2005, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EFileTahi-A:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MBeck:
Well you all seem to forget one thing:

1) Yes they are more expensive - no argument there.
2) They use about 1/4 - 1/5 of the power of a same size CRT (huge savings on power). Thus they generate less heat. Less heat means less stress on the AC during the summer. Im aware that less heat is also saving on the heating bill during winter but the AC savings is bigger than the heat extra cost.

If you put all this together in a businesscase (like we did where I work) then these babys have earned themselves.

We have not purchased a CRT in the last 2-3 years. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you're right. I actually forgot to mention this. And, why would I forget to mention such thing?
Maybe because that might not be an issue at all, and to prove that, only you mention it. Maybe for a large company who haves too many computers (like you sort of said it) its a good thing, but honestly, for a comum user, me thinks that it barely fitts into a discussion topic.

If the heat and power cosume would be an issue at all, ppl would not buy "high end" video cards and CPUs, because as you certainly know, they are the main power s*ckers and hazard heat sources from the computer... It's because of CPUs and Video Cards that 560watt PSUs exist...

So, I guess I vote to have high quality at low cost with non-revelant power and heat side effects... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What I didnt mention was that using only the savings on electricity will equal the cost of TFT monitor in less than 4 years.
Yeah...thats right. We did the calculations based on the powerconsumption alone and it was cheaper to buy TFT monitors over CRTs. Ofcurse we included the expected lifespan of a TFT.
Also, the calculations was also done back in the day where a 15" TFT cost the same as a 20"TFT does today.
So...yes, I think its relevant for a normal consumer too to know this since the higher cost of a TFT has been mentioned several times.
Of course we could blame it on the cost of electricity in Denmark. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 05:56 PM
Sigh...

It seems to me that no one here actually completely understands the benifets of a Flat panel moniter. Let me elaborate.

1. Size and Heat: A Flat panel puts out virtually no heat, and takes up a fraction of the room a bulky CRT does. A flat panel also weighs MUCH less.
2. Eye Strain: I€m not sure who was saying a CRT is EASIER on the eyes, but they were either
a) Full of ****
b) A complete moron
c) Simply lied to defend what in their opinion was a better type of monitor.
If this person knew the first thing about Flat Panels, or how they worked, they wouldn€t be spouting off information that is simply wrong. Lets have a little lesson. A CRT monitor has what we like to call a refresh rate. This is the process that the screen in €œrefreshed€ and its contents updated. This happens so fast that we don€t perceive it. (if you ever video tape a CRT, you can see the flickering). This also causes stress on the eyes, as well as headaches after sitting in front of it for long periods of time. The Flat panel works differently, and only updates the pixels on the screen that have changed, thus removing the refresh rate factor. (Flat panels DO have a refresh rate, but it is a different measurement, and not to be confused with a CRT refresh rate). This makes looking at a flat panel much easier on the eyes. The typical flat panel also has a brightness and contrast ratio well above conventional CRT€s, making them even more easier on the eyes. The construction of the flat panel also contributes to comfort. Looking at a CRT, you€re seeing a piece of glass, then the cathode tube, which displays the images. A Flat panel simply displays the image on a €œtruly€ flat surface.
3. Gaming: This is simply not an issue anymore. As long as you get a Flat panel with a 16ms (or lower) response time, ghosting is no longer present. Afterglow is also typically not an issue. Even for FPS€s, yes. The brightness, sharpness, and picture quality of a Flat panel simply overwhelms the pathetic capabilities of a CRT. I personally own a Dell 2005FPW 20€ Flat Panel, and would never, EVER go back to a CRT for gaming. It€s simply better.
4. Cost: This is the ONLY reason you would not get a flat panel. Cost is still fairly high.


I think I€ve made my point. I€ll be happy to answer any questions, or arguments about the points I€ve made.

As a note, I am sorely disappointed in Ubisoft€s decision to limit the screen resolution to such a low ratio. Is the Dev team even aware of what year this is? I haven€t seen or HEARD of a game come out with such a low default resolution in years, and one that is locked to boot! I don€t care how great the engine is, 1024x768 just doesn€t cut it by today€s standards, and will look horrid on most monitors.

I may have to pass this one up if this issue isn€t taken care of. It would be almost unplayable using my monitor, and look mediocre at best on others. No, graphics aren€t everything, but they do count for SOMETHING, and I don€t like the developers telling me what resolution I can run a game (that I paid for) at. It€s insane! If it takes a behemoth of a computer to run it at 1600x1200, then by god let the people who have the capabilities run it at their desired resolution! Saying €œwell, it doesn€t run that great any higher so€¦.you have to play it with this 5 year old standard resolution€ is asinine, and insulting to me as a customer. The only poeple that should not be upset about this are those with very old computers, with 15" crt's. For the rest of us, it's bullsh**.

I also heard someone mention a survey Valve did, and it indicated that most users had low end computers..I'm not sure what you were looking at, but thier results showed the expected bell curve which is prominent in most studies like this...
The graph looks like a bell, with most people being in the top of the curve. A few with low end pc's, a high number of Mid-range, and then back to a few High end machines.

Anyway, that's my post...I'm really looking forward to this game, I hope they fix this resolution issue.

Null04
03-07-2005, 05:59 PM
I wanted to add that TFT screens cause less strain on the eyes.

Antrodemus
03-07-2005, 06:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The brightness, sharpness, and picture quality of a Flat panel simply overwhelms the pathetic capabilities of a CRT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL.

Quite simply...

...LOL.

A.

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 06:41 PM
Compared to a high end TFT...yes..a CRT is pathetic...if you disagree, give some facts, back up your argument.

Antrodemus
03-07-2005, 07:20 PM
See previous post.

A.

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 07:27 PM
nm

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 07:53 PM
Your kidding right?

I don't even know where to begin if you can't accept/understand the fact that a flat panel has clearer, crisper images....and lasts close to as long as a CRT. Where the hell have you been? Have you even SEEN a high quality flat panel? Go to page 2 and see my post, *******, before you start talking about something you obviously know nothing about.

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 07:54 PM
nm

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 07:55 PM
Go to page 2 and see my post, before you start talking about something you obviously know nothing about.

Sigh...and we wonder why mankind is doomed. It's because of people like you, who can't accept simple facts without injecting your own convoluted opinions into a debate.

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 07:59 PM
nm

blue_76
03-07-2005, 07:59 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
guys, guys.. calm down! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 08:01 PM
nm

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 08:01 PM
Alright, well sicne your completley worthless, and can't seem to find page 2, i'll repost my statements for you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sigh...

It seems to me that no one here actually completely understands the benifets of a Flat panel moniter. Let me elaborate.

1. Size and Heat: A Flat panel puts out virtually no heat, and takes up a fraction of the room a bulky CRT does. A flat panel also weighs MUCH less.
2. Eye Strain: I€m not sure who was saying a CRT is EASIER on the eyes, but they were either
a) Full of ****
b) A complete moron
c) Simply lied to defend what in their opinion was a better type of monitor.
If this person knew the first thing about Flat Panels, or how they worked, they wouldn€t be spouting off information that is simply wrong. Lets have a little lesson. A CRT monitor has what we like to call a refresh rate. This is the process that the screen in €œrefreshed€ and its contents updated. This happens so fast that we don€t perceive it. (if you ever video tape a CRT, you can see the flickering). This also causes stress on the eyes, as well as headaches after sitting in front of it for long periods of time. The Flat panel works differently, and only updates the pixels on the screen that have changed, thus removing the refresh rate factor. (Flat panels DO have a refresh rate, but it is a different measurement, and not to be confused with a CRT refresh rate). This makes looking at a flat panel much easier on the eyes. The typical flat panel also has a brightness and contrast ratio well above conventional CRT€s, making them even more easier on the eyes. The construction of the flat panel also contributes to comfort. Looking at a CRT, you€re seeing a piece of glass, then the cathode tube, which displays the images. A Flat panel simply displays the image on a €œtruly€ flat surface.
3. Gaming: This is simply not an issue anymore. As long as you get a Flat panel with a 16ms (or lower) response time, ghosting is no longer present. Afterglow is also typically not an issue. Even for FPS€s, yes. The brightness, sharpness, and picture quality of a Flat panel simply overwhelms the pathetic capabilities of a CRT. I personally own a Dell 2005FPW 20€ Flat Panel, and would never, EVER go back to a CRT for gaming. It€s simply better.
4. Cost: This is the ONLY reason you would not get a flat panel. Cost is still fairly high.


I think I€ve made my point. I€ll be happy to answer any questions, or arguments about the points I€ve made.

As a note, I am sorely disappointed in Ubisoft€s decision to limit the screen resolution to such a low ratio. Is the Dev team even aware of what year this is? I haven€t seen or HEARD of a game come out with such a low default resolution in years, and one that is locked to boot! I don€t care how great the engine is, 1024x768 just doesn€t cut it by today€s standards, and will look horrid on most monitors.

I may have to pass this one up if this issue isn€t taken care of. It would be almost unplayable using my monitor, and look mediocre at best on others. No, graphics aren€t everything, but they do count for SOMETHING, and I don€t like the developers telling me what resolution I can run a game (that I paid for) at. It€s insane! If it takes a behemoth of a computer to run it at 1600x1200, then by god let the people who have the capabilities run it at their desired resolution! Saying €œwell, it doesn€t run that great any higher so€¦.you have to play it with this 5 year old standard resolution€ is asinine, and insulting to me as a customer. The only poeple that should not be upset about this are those with very old computers, with 15" crt's. For the rest of us, it's bullsh**.

I also heard someone mention a survey Valve did, and it indicated that most users had low end computers..I'm not sure what you were looking at, but thier results showed the expected bell curve which is prominent in most studies like this...
The graph looks like a bell, with most people being in the top of the curve. A few with low end pc's, a high number of Mid-range, and then back to a few High end machines.

Anyway, that's my post...I'm really looking forward to this game, I hope they fix this resolution issue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that clear enought for you?

Another note...I like how everyone resorts to assuming they are dealing with "kids" when they have no doubt lost a debate. I'm more then likley older then you, but that really shouldent matter.

You can also read this, which clearly states:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Image quality

When it comes to image geometry, modern CRTs may have much improved but they cannot compete with FPDs. A pixel in the middle of an LCD panel is identical to one in the furthest corner, and they're arranged in a perfect grid. The result is perfect geometry, and consistent focus without convergence or colour purity problems. That's easily two points to FPD.

But no display is ever artefact-free. The TFT manufacturing process suffers from high failure rates, but panels considered acceptable may include several 'dead' pixels. These pixels may never illuminate or, more annoyingly, remain locked on one colour. Worse, additional pixels could die at any time. While rare, and relatively easy to overlook, dead pixels remain the bane of FPD owners.

Users of aperture grille CRTs (Sony Trinitron/Mitsubishi DiamondTron) sometimes complain of the two fine, visible, damping wires running horizontally across the image for mechanical stability. But you get used to these too, and reap the benefits of a vibrant display, so CRT wins the tolerable artefact issue.

Light output is an interesting point. CRTs win easily on peak brightness of a small area, but modern TFTs win in terms of overall brightness across the entire display. That makes CRTs great for moving video, but FPDs superior for the typical Windows desktop.

If you measure the brightness across the display, you'll notice it reducing as you reach the corners of a CRT. With side backlights, a poor TFT panel may dim towards the centre, but modern panels are more even than a typical CRT. Three-one to FPD.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://www.crn.vnunet.com/analysis/88978

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 08:04 PM
nm

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 08:06 PM
Dear mother of god your blind.

Once again.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Image quality

When it comes to image geometry, modern CRTs may have much improved but they cannot compete with FPDs. A pixel in the middle of an LCD panel is identical to one in the furthest corner, and they're arranged in a perfect grid. The result is perfect geometry, and consistent focus without convergence or colour purity problems. That's easily two points to FPD.

But no display is ever artefact-free. The TFT manufacturing process suffers from high failure rates, but panels considered acceptable may include several 'dead' pixels. These pixels may never illuminate or, more annoyingly, remain locked on one colour. Worse, additional pixels could die at any time. While rare, and relatively easy to overlook, dead pixels remain the bane of FPD owners.

Users of aperture grille CRTs (Sony Trinitron/Mitsubishi DiamondTron) sometimes complain of the two fine, visible, damping wires running horizontally across the image for mechanical stability. But you get used to these too, and reap the benefits of a vibrant display, so CRT wins the tolerable artefact issue.

Light output is an interesting point. CRTs win easily on peak brightness of a small area, but modern TFTs win in terms of overall brightness across the entire display. That makes CRTs great for moving video, but FPDs superior for the typical Windows desktop.

If you measure the brightness across the display, you'll notice it reducing as you reach the corners of a CRT. With side backlights, a poor TFT panel may dim towards the centre, but modern panels are more even than a typical CRT. Three-one to FPD.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats just one of thousands of articles that all agree, LCD's beat out CRT's. I'd love to see your "facts" for a counter argument.

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 08:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jreynol2game:
Dear mother of god your blind.

Once again.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Image quality

When it comes to image geometry, modern CRTs may have much improved but they cannot compete with FPDs. A pixel in the middle of an LCD panel is identical to one in the furthest corner, and they're arranged in a perfect grid. The result is perfect geometry, and consistent focus without convergence or colour purity problems. That's easily two points to FPD.

But no display is ever artefact-free. The TFT manufacturing process suffers from high failure rates, but panels considered acceptable may include several 'dead' pixels. These pixels may never illuminate or, more annoyingly, remain locked on one colour. Worse, additional pixels could die at any time. While rare, and relatively easy to overlook, dead pixels remain the bane of FPD owners.

Users of aperture grille CRTs (Sony Trinitron/Mitsubishi DiamondTron) sometimes complain of the two fine, visible, damping wires running horizontally across the image for mechanical stability. But you get used to these too, and reap the benefits of a vibrant display, so CRT wins the tolerable artefact issue.

Light output is an interesting point. CRTs win easily on peak brightness of a small area, but modern TFTs win in terms of overall brightness across the entire display. That makes CRTs great for moving video, but FPDs superior for the typical Windows desktop.

If you measure the brightness across the display, you'll notice it reducing as you reach the corners of a CRT. With side backlights, a poor TFT panel may dim towards the centre, but modern panels are more even than a typical CRT. Three-one to FPD.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats just one of thousands of articles that all agree, LCD's beat out CRT's hands down. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go ahead and post some of them. I'm always interested in learning new information about my hobby.

All I'm saying is that if you are going to call for facts then have some of your own ready.

You feel the need to resort to name calling. That's fine. I choose not too.

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 08:10 PM
Sigh...so narrow minded. I've posted facts, and even still you won't budge...I'm done trying to help you understand, Good luck.

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 08:11 PM
nm

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 08:15 PM
I only quoted myself once...the other quote was from the article you no doubt have yet to read.
Just because I called you a ******* doesent mean I was angry or upset..I just happen to think you were acting like one, so I let you know. So in the future, you may want to actually READ someone's post before replying and assuming. That usually "holds water in a debate". Read the article, then you can reply.

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 08:18 PM
nm

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 08:20 PM
Hehe...avoiding the real issue now hmmm? Please, I'd love to hear your witty reply to the facts from the article I linked. No more dodging my questions.

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 08:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jreynol2game:
Hehe...avoiding the real issue now hmmm? Please, I'd love to hear your witty reply to the facts from the article I linked. No more dodging my questions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm still waiting for your "witty reply" to mine.

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 08:23 PM
Sigh...now your playing games...very good. Mod, please lock this thread, it's not going anywhere.

JavDog
03-07-2005, 08:30 PM
Admin, please DELETE this thread, is more like it.

Don't worry. I just notified admin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Jreynol2game
03-07-2005, 08:33 PM
Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG27_Arklight
03-07-2005, 09:33 PM
This forum doesn't have a moderator.

UR is not a mod. Though he does have mod like powers. lol

MBeck
03-08-2005, 12:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I posted a link to another article that you seemed to completely miss. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I might be blind but could you direct me to that link please?

JG27_Arklight
03-08-2005, 01:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MBeck:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I posted a link to another article that you seemed to completely miss. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I might be blind but could you direct me to that link please? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think I went back and edited it out. I had two there but I just erased them during the arguement we were all having.

Let me try and find them for you.

http://www.cheap-lcd-monitor.com/lcd-vs-crt-monitors.htm

http://www.viewsonic.com/monitoruniversity/crt.htm

There you go, Mbeck. Hope this helps.



Jreynol2game, if you prefer TFT displays then that is your choice. We all have the right to spend out own money on whatever we choose. I don't wish to argue with you any longer and I would imagine many other people don't want to watch us argue with eachother any longer.

My apologies if I offended you in any way. Sometimes these internet "debates" get out of hand for the wrong reasons. This community is too interesting to waste it bickering over montior choices. Besides that, this game will be too much fun to play and discuss here for us to waste our time graveling over petty matters.

I hope you accept my apologies and I hope we can be friends here in the forum.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EFileTahi-A
03-08-2005, 02:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cruz1317:
Ok...I probably shouldn't (since I seem in to be in the vast minority here) but I will respond to this anyway.

First of all to the guy, who stated that he can see any ghosting no matter what the response time is...please...I would like to see that in a realistic test...but anyway.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah it was me: ***EFileTahi-A***, I apologize if my eyes hurt with TFT... (they also hurt with crappy CRT screens with low refresh rates if this make ppl feel better)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
For some people it is really a matter of space and eye stress (I count myself as one of those) although it has been said before. And for some people the style and looks of their pc is also important (count myself in for one of those, too). Just because some of you do not care about that, doesn't make the ones who do lesser pc users. See when I build my pc I had been saving money for it for a long time, because I didn't want to make any compromises. So I build everything top notch (at least it was a year ago) and equipped it with passive watercooling so it is completely silent. During the whole process of building the machine i always kept an eye on the look of things. And this huge crt, just didn't fit.

Does that make someone who uses a tft someone who just follows a trend? I don't think so...because if I would just follow trends, i would have just bought a standard machine of the rack in the local Saturn. (Radioshack for you american guys, don't know what the equivalent is in GB.) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[/QUOTE]

Fine with me, its your personal taste and point of view as I have mine. I was speking for myself. If ppl payed more attention on that they read they would notice that I was always talking in singular person (mysaelf) not generelasing and crucifing the ones who do not agree with me. I do not own the trueth nor anywone...

But tks for your post. I am glad to know that there are still ppl who can express themselfs without insulting ppl...

MBeck
03-08-2005, 03:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
http://www.cheap-lcd-monitor.com/lcd-vs-crt-monitors.htm

http://www.viewsonic.com/monitoruniversity/crt.htm

There you go, Mbeck. Hope this helps. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thnx http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I totally agree with the color argument. Working with webdevelopment, I can recognize the argument. CRTs are better in that respect.
Too bad theres no date on this information, because the improoments of LCDs are so fast passed.

EFileTahi-A
03-08-2005, 03:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jreynol2game:
Sigh...

It seems to me that no one here actually completely understands the benifets of a Flat panel moniter. Let me elaborate.

1. Size and Heat: A Flat panel puts out virtually no heat, and takes up a fraction of the room a bulky CRT does. A flat panel also weighs MUCH less.
2. Eye Strain: I€m not sure who was saying a CRT is EASIER on the eyes, but they were either
a) Full of ****
b) A complete moron
c) Simply lied to defend what in their opinion was a better type of monitor.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your error begins here. Even if you did own the truth you would just loose all by the time you start to insult the ones who have a diferent point of view. Maybe your parents did not educated you in a proper manner, so it might not be your fault afterall...

If Size, Heat and space saving is an important thing for you for me is not... I put in front of it the price and image quality...

Did you actually read all the previous posts? Let me refresh your mind:
"- Weight? Well, am actually not concern about the weight my desk is carrying as I don't plan either to carry my screen on my back everwhere. A desktop screen is meant to be fixed. For that I would buy a notebook..."

"- Space saving? A desk with space defenciencies on handling an CRT computer screen is in needing of cleaning or to be "junk disposed", unless you want to place your screen in some fancy place, like celling or wall, which make me believe it would never be your primary screen..."

"- Eye Stressing? My eyes get really stressed with the TFT image, my boss had to replace my TFT screen long ago with some CRT screen... (added) Sorry if my eyes hurt when using TFT screens, but am pleased to inform you that they also hurt with cheap CRT screens with low refresh rates"

This is what I think and you will just to find a way of living with this as I will have to live with your coments...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If this person knew the first thing about Flat Panels, or how they worked, they wouldn€t be spouting off information that is simply wrong. Lets have a little lesson. A CRT monitor has what we like to call a refresh rate. This is the process that the screen in €œrefreshed€ and its contents updated. This happens so fast that we don€t perceive it. (if you ever video tape a CRT, you can see the flickering). This also causes stress on the eyes, as well as headaches after sitting in front of it for long periods of time. The Flat panel works differently, and only updates the pixels on the screen that have changed, thus removing the refresh rate factor. (Flat panels DO have a refresh rate, but it is a different measurement, and not to be confused with a CRT refresh rate). This makes looking at a flat panel much easier on the eyes. The typical flat panel also has a brightness and contrast ratio well above conventional CRT€s, making them even more easier on the eyes. The construction of the flat panel also contributes to comfort. Looking at a CRT, you€re seeing a piece of glass, then the cathode tube, which displays the images. A Flat panel simply displays the image on a €œtruly€ flat surface.
3. Gaming: This is simply not an issue anymore. As long as you get a Flat panel with a 16ms (or lower) response time, ghosting is no longer present. Afterglow is also typically not an issue. Even for FPS€s, yes. The brightness, sharpness, and picture quality of a Flat panel simply overwhelms the pathetic capabilities of a CRT. I personally own a Dell 2005FPW 20€ Flat Panel, and would never, EVER go back to a CRT for gaming. It€s simply better.
4. Cost: This is the ONLY reason you would not get a flat panel. Cost is still fairly high.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are free to consider a lie whatever you want as long you don't insult ppl, however, considering something a lie will not un-made de truth.

It also happens that that my eyes are truly sensitive to day light, I will end up with an huge pain in my eyes if I do not wear sunglasses. Yeah am sort of vampire, that explains the vampire avatar...

Yeah, TFT might be less eye stressing (not for me though, I apologize again) but lets get real, spending hours pointing your eyes to whatever screen it will stress your eyes. No matter if it is TFT or CRT... Also, for me it's truly irrelevant the stressing eyes factor bewteen these 2 screens, yet, I never heard none of my friends (about 8 persons who own TFT screens) saying they brough the TFT because it's less eye stressing, or, never mention that factor in our discussion (maybe because they don't see the diference at all)...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
As a note, I am sorely disappointed in Ubisoft€s decision to limit the screen resolution to such a low ratio. Is the Dev team even aware of what year this is? I haven€t seen or HEARD of a game come out with such a low default resolution in years, and one that is locked to boot! I don€t care how great the engine is, 1024x768 just doesn€t cut it by today€s standards, and will look horrid on most monitors.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, specialy in TFT screens who do not have its native resolution to 1024x768. A problem that not happens with CRT screens since CRTs pixels size can be changed and adapter to the screen res...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I may have to pass this one up if this issue isn€t taken care of. It would be almost unplayable using my monitor, and look mediocre at best on others. No, graphics aren€t everything, but they do count for SOMETHING, and I don€t like the developers telling me what resolution I can run a game (that I paid for) at. It€s insane! If it takes a behemoth of a computer to run it at 1600x1200, then by god let the people who have the capabilities run it at their desired resolution! Saying €œwell, it doesn€t run that great any higher so€¦.you have to play it with this 5 year old standard resolution€ is asinine, and insulting to me as a customer. The only poeple that should not be upset about this are those with very old computers, with 15" crt's. For the rest of us, it's bullsh**.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I do not have an old computer nor an small 15inch screen, but still, am not upset (althought it does not make me feel happier either) with the screen res limitation, I rather have SH3 with 1024x768 then no SH3 afterall and be forced to play the cheap SH2 as an alternative choice...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I think I€ve made my point. I€ll be happy to answer any questions, or arguments about the points I€ve made.
Anyway, that's my post...I'm really looking forward to this game, I hope they fix this resolution issue.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you have shown your point of view as I have shown mine, the diference is that I did not resort to insults in order to shown my disaproval towards your coments...

EFileTahi-A
03-08-2005, 03:38 AM
I wonder why serious developing companies like DREAMWORKS and SH3 DEV TEAM use CRT screens... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
03-08-2005, 03:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jreynol2game:
Just because I called you a ******* doesent mean I was angry or upset... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ad hominem attacks ALWAYS mean that the person making them is angry or upset, and that he thinks he's on the wrong side of the argument. In all other respects the ad-hominem attack is irrelevant. If you think the other guy is a *******, explain why his argument is flawed. Calling him a ******* just makes your own argument appear flawed.

Pr0metheus 1962
03-08-2005, 04:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JavDog:
Don't worry. I just notified admin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, I think that's the third time you've contacted admin in the last 24 hours, but as far as we know, there is no censorship on this forum.

sav112
03-08-2005, 04:33 AM
Just about to box my my CRT Vision master pro 410 that has served me well over the last 5 years but weighs a ton and is looking a bit dated.

I€m ordering a either the Viewsonic VP912 or VP912s which I have still to see a bad review of. The difference between the strongest points of the CRT are negligible and it performs brilliant with games and video 12ms, looks good, flicker free and I know because I use TFT screen that my eyes don€t get nearly as tired using them.

http://www.lowestonweb.com/Products/DisplayInfoMain.asp?e=DE1B3F84-B250-46D2-A7C6-FE8034803D6C


Power consumption compared to my Vision master is night and day and the Old CRT, I cant place it but the white is **** on it now, its had heavy use over the years all the same, plus I never like those faint lines that are on the screen that are the normal.


So I€m more than happy to switch, I was going to wait another year but the TFT screens have just Cought up over the last 3-4 months and the new models later this year will be even better.

With regards to the future TFT will completely dominate when it wins over the designers as one by one TFT will out stripe what the CRT is best at which is not even that much just now in my view.

The only thing stopping me right now is the price as its falling month by month the screen (or the model around it as they have brought out updated ones) I€m getting above started at 390 and is now 294 over the last 6-7 months.

By the time I€ve got it in April we might have resoloution at 1280x1024 in the game.

EFileTahi-A
03-08-2005, 05:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jreynol2game:
Just because I called you a ******* doesent mean I was angry or upset... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ad hominem attacks ALWAYS mean that the person making them is angry or upset, and that he thinks he's on the wrong side of the argument. In all other respects the ad-hominem attack is irrelevant. If you think the other guy is a *******, explain why his argument is flawed. Calling him a ******* just makes your own argument appear flawed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to say this to you Beeryus, am trully honored to have such guy (you) on board this forum. You remind me a Paladin http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif which is a person with good principles and a follower of reason and good. I learn to pay special attention on your posts, in fact, you have made change my mind twice on some discusison threads... Yet, you have an respectable avatar captain! LOL

I pretty much agree with what you have just said http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Thank you for your participation... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
03-08-2005, 05:28 AM
Thanks EFileTahi-A! A lot of the time, I only get feedback from those folks who are angered by my musings, so it feels nice when people let me know that what I say is appreciated. I have a similar respect for your writings.

Messervy
03-08-2005, 06:37 AM
Are the two of you members of shoulder patting secret order http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
...can I be recruted?

@JavDog:
quote:
------------------------------------------------
Don't worry. I just notified admin.
------------------------------------------------

I remember doing something simmilar in kindergarden...things went only downhill from then on!

EFileTahi-A
03-08-2005, 07:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
I have a similar respect for your writings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, to be honest, I was not counting with this...

Really happy to know this Beerys! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Why the nick Beerys anyway? Does it have some special meaning?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy
Are the two of you members of shoulder patting secret order Smile Wink2
...can I be recruted?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. We only need one more member to be! Welcome abord Messervy LOL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dominicrigg
03-08-2005, 07:26 AM
You two should get a hotel room!

Pr0metheus 1962
03-08-2005, 07:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EFileTahi-A:
Why the nick Beerys anyway? Does it have some special meaning? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a complicated story. Firstly, I used to like Beer - actually I still like it, but my stomach can't handle it anymore, but I digress. The second reason is that I'm a WW1 aviation nut, and I was always fascinated by the British air aces. One day I found a picture of Geoffrey 'Beery' Bowman, and I noticed a resemblance between him and me. So I adopted his nickname. That's all there is to it.

Messervy
03-08-2005, 07:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
It's a complicated story. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed a very complicated one. I had severe difficulties in following that one. (lol)

Pr0metheus 1962
03-08-2005, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy:
Are the two of you members of shoulder patting secret order http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
...can I be recruted? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Messervy, you are always welcome. How could any group do without your sense of humour? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Messervy
03-08-2005, 07:44 AM
I would like to think they would do just fine, thank you! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

EFileTahi-A
03-08-2005, 08:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
You two should get a hotel room! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I prefer to play SH3 at my house...