View Full Version : Far Cry xbox 360 community
SurgeDS4786
11-30-2008, 01:41 PM
Ive had Far Cry 2 since day 1. My teammates and I really enjoy Far Cry 2 and we play it daily. The problems that we have been seeing and experiencing with other players is the lack of care for this game by developers to make this game convenient for its players. After having lots of talks with other random players, here are a few things that people hate about this game and in my opinion draws them away from this game besides the fact that new released games are taking the toll as well.. Over the last few weeks, ive notice a HUGE decline in players playing Far Cry 2... Heck even GameBattles teams have been inactive and theirs only like 10 of them to begin with..
Issue # 1... Player Invite = I think the developers of Far Cry 2 tried sooooo hard to keep players from stat paddling in "ranked servers" that in reality it made it difficult for others who are just their for normal play.. If a player wants to stat cheat, he will and theirs nothing developers can do to stop it unless THEY take the TIME and ban peoples account for specious stats! I think "player INVITE" to a RANK server is a must fix! People still join together because theirs nothing that will ever stop friendship, but it is a hassle reconnecting everyone all the time.
Issue # 2. Servers crash at the end of each round on ranked servers..... Developers need to understand that it takes up to 10 minutes at times just to fill a server and so having a server "reset/crash" at the end of each map will only frustrate players for spending so much time just to get into a game. Why would someone play a game for 4 hours and spend 1 hour of that time just getting into servers?
Issue # 2. Server Names.. I think people are sick and tired of joining a server and the host not being their while the server is full... The host meanwhile is spending his time elsewhere (like the toilet maybe) while the rest of the players just waiting for him not knowing when he will be back......See if a host has time to walk AWAY FROM XBOX while hosting, you know theirs something wrong this picture. If people can NAME their server, people might recognize a server name that they are familiar to and join it once again knowing the host has a great server. Also, a lot of host BAN good players in the meddle of the game because they are not the ones wining and they want to collect glory in the end.
There are more issues with the game but not as big as these.... For all i see, Far Cry 2 is another good game gone bad by lack of developers support. Why does EA make the crappiest un-realistic games ever and yet their the most popular? Look how convenient they are to get started and be played instead of good games like Far Cry 2 and project IGI 2 and Delta Force 2.
Just my 2 cents... I think its already 70% late to save Far Cry 2 because most of the people who bought the game have stopped playing it, but at least theirs still a chance.... I just cant believe with all the competition Far Cry 2 is facing against other games they would take their sweet time to fix missuses like this. Simply amazing to me.
SurgeDS4786
11-30-2008, 01:41 PM
Ive had Far Cry 2 since day 1. My teammates and I really enjoy Far Cry 2 and we play it daily. The problems that we have been seeing and experiencing with other players is the lack of care for this game by developers to make this game convenient for its players. After having lots of talks with other random players, here are a few things that people hate about this game and in my opinion draws them away from this game besides the fact that new released games are taking the toll as well.. Over the last few weeks, ive notice a HUGE decline in players playing Far Cry 2... Heck even GameBattles teams have been inactive and theirs only like 10 of them to begin with..
Issue # 1... Player Invite = I think the developers of Far Cry 2 tried sooooo hard to keep players from stat paddling in "ranked servers" that in reality it made it difficult for others who are just their for normal play.. If a player wants to stat cheat, he will and theirs nothing developers can do to stop it unless THEY take the TIME and ban peoples account for specious stats! I think "player INVITE" to a RANK server is a must fix! People still join together because theirs nothing that will ever stop friendship, but it is a hassle reconnecting everyone all the time.
Issue # 2. Servers crash at the end of each round on ranked servers..... Developers need to understand that it takes up to 10 minutes at times just to fill a server and so having a server "reset/crash" at the end of each map will only frustrate players for spending so much time just to get into a game. Why would someone play a game for 4 hours and spend 1 hour of that time just getting into servers?
Issue # 2. Server Names.. I think people are sick and tired of joining a server and the host not being their while the server is full... The host meanwhile is spending his time elsewhere (like the toilet maybe) while the rest of the players just waiting for him not knowing when he will be back......See if a host has time to walk AWAY FROM XBOX while hosting, you know theirs something wrong this picture. If people can NAME their server, people might recognize a server name that they are familiar to and join it once again knowing the host has a great server. Also, a lot of host BAN good players in the meddle of the game because they are not the ones wining and they want to collect glory in the end.
There are more issues with the game but not as big as these.... For all i see, Far Cry 2 is another good game gone bad by lack of developers support. Why does EA make the crappiest un-realistic games ever and yet their the most popular? Look how convenient they are to get started and be played instead of good games like Far Cry 2 and project IGI 2 and Delta Force 2.
Just my 2 cents... I think its already 70% late to save Far Cry 2 because most of the people who bought the game have stopped playing it, but at least theirs still a chance.... I just cant believe with all the competition Far Cry 2 is facing against other games they would take their sweet time to fix missuses like this. Simply amazing to me.
SurgeDS4786
12-01-2008, 07:32 AM
bump
venix245
12-01-2008, 08:09 AM
i agree with you on the servers there also needs to be a way to make it so you only play people within 3 ranks of you
TX_SASQUATCH
12-01-2008, 11:42 AM
How did you calculate it was 70% late? Was this a personal assesment of what you think it might be?
WretcheddDrake
12-01-2008, 11:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by venix245:
i agree with you on the servers there also needs to be a way to make it so you only play people within 3 ranks of you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A feature like this requires a very large player base on a constant basis, like Halo 3.
Far Cry 2 only sold 3 million across ALL 3 DIFFERENT PLATFORMS.
And many already left it behind.
So sorry, but it won't work unless you like waiting a half hour for your matches.
SurgeDS4786
12-01-2008, 12:01 PM
Because when i first got the game, there where ruffly 20-30 consistent servers up in each game mode including "death match" "team death match" "capture the D" "uprising" .
Now when you log in you will find only about 4-6 servers on Deathmatch...... with only 1-2 servers of 3-12 players in their.
About 5-10 servers on Team Deathmatch with only about 2-3 servers with actually people in them.
Capture the D: 2-6 servers with only 1 that actually has around 5-16 players in their.
Upriseing: 3-8 servers with actually about 2 servers that have about 5-10 players in their..
Thats how the lobby looks right now as we speak in the meddle of the day. Kids are even off school.
Of course some nights Deathmatch has 5-10 servers instead of team Deathmatch and of course most of the players play Deathmatch through out most times... But 5-10 servers compared to 20-30+ servers that farcry had during their first couple weeks actually shows that 70% reduction is quite a generous number.. In reality its about 80-90% but i don't want to upset the farcry developers and have them give up on xbox hehe.
Another fact, i met about 18 friends in farcry because we are looking for recruits for the team... Only about 2 of them still play farcry ONCE IN A LONG WHILE after me bugging them all night long to have a few games with me. Once again, if you rate it just by my new freinds, its around 98% that quit playing.
TX_SASQUATCH
12-01-2008, 12:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SurgeDS4786:
Because when i first got the game, there where ruffly 20-30 consistent servers up in each game mode including "death match" "team death match" "capture the D" "uprising" .
Now when you log in you will find only about 4-6 servers on Deathmatch...... with only 1-2 servers of 3-12 players in their.
About 5-10 servers on Team Deathmatch with only about 2-3 servers with actually people in them.
Capture the D: 2-6 servers with only 1 that actually has around 5-16 players in their.
Upriseing: 3-8 servers with actually about 2 servers that have about 5-10 players in their..
Thats how the lobby looks right now as we speak in the meddle of the day. Kids are even off school.
Of course some nights Deathmatch has 5-10 servers instead of team Deathmatch and of course most of the players play Deathmatch through out most times... But 5-10 servers compared to 20-30+ servers that farcry had during their first couple weeks actually shows that 70% reduction is quite a generous number.. In reality its about 80-90% but i don't want to upset the farcry developers and have them give up on xbox hehe.
Another fact, i met about 18 friends in farcry because we are looking for recruits for the team... Only about 2 of them still play farcry ONCE IN A LONG WHILE after me bugging them all night long to have a few games with me. Once again, if you rate it just by my new freinds, its around 98% that quit playing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sheesh...well I traded the PS3 version in for 360 and really like it more, realizing the MP is on Ubi servers I can't figure out how I have not lost XP, diamonds, weapon upgrades much less have only been disconnected once on 360 Vs all kinds of stupidness with the PS3. What a mystery and I can't explain it. I'd start playing FC2 again if I didn't have to keep waiting for a game. Depending on the time it gets pretty thinned out.
Atmon
12-01-2008, 12:24 PM
Thanks for your feedback, we are aware of the current issues and our team is currently working on a patch for Xbox 360 that will fix several MP issues.
Thanks
rotekz
12-01-2008, 12:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atmon:
Thanks for your feedback, we are aware of the current issues and our team is currently working on a patch for Xbox 360 that will fix several MP issues.
Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
How about the single player issues? Respawning checkpoints, accelerated aiming problems, underpowered weapons, over-aggressive ai etc.... etc.... Are these being worked on at all?
Raide
12-01-2008, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rotekz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atmon:
Thanks for your feedback, we are aware of the current issues and our team is currently working on a patch for Xbox 360 that will fix several MP issues.
Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
How about the single player issues? Respawning checkpoints, accelerated aiming problems, underpowered weapons, over-aggressive ai etc.... etc.... Are these being worked on at all? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes SP issues are being looked at but Atmon's reply was based upon the Multiplayer nature of this thread.
The Developers will keep everyone updated with all Far Cry 2 related news as and when it arrives.
TheGael
12-01-2008, 12:53 PM
Although the multiplayer is brilliant, those things you mentioned are indeed a pain. There are other things, of course, such as underpowered weapons which I think someone mentioned above.
WretcheddDrake
12-01-2008, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGael:
Although the multiplayer is brilliant, those things you mentioned are indeed a pain. There are other things, of course, such as underpowered weapons which I think someone mentioned above. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wouldn't be caught dead using the Silent MP-5, that thing just sucks lol. A crap pistol or knife is better.
rotekz
12-01-2008, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Raide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rotekz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atmon:
Thanks for your feedback, we are aware of the current issues and our team is currently working on a patch for Xbox 360 that will fix several MP issues.
Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
How about the single player issues? Respawning checkpoints, accelerated aiming problems, underpowered weapons, over-aggressive ai etc.... etc.... Are these being worked on at all? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes SP issues are being looked at but Atmon's reply was based upon the Multiplayer nature of this thread.
The Developers will keep everyone updated with all Far Cry 2 related news as and when it arrives. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you. It's good to know that and it's the first post I've seen that acknowledges that something is being done to fix the single player issues. I very much look forward to being able to drive around in this gameworld without the npc's battering me every other minute of travel.
SurgeDS4786
12-03-2008, 01:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atmon:
Thanks for your feedback, we are aware of the current issues and our team is currently working on a patch for Xbox 360 that will fix several MP issues.
Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alright thanks! Ive notice a lot of xbox people are complaining and finally we get a response! Maybe if we can get this patch release fast enough, it just might save the game? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Not asking for a lot, just server issues >http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
zeeEVIL1
12-03-2008, 09:30 AM
Well I came in to find out if a patch was in the works for this game on 360. Good to know that it is. In the past ubi has shown very little support for their games after launch.
@venix and everyone else here, If you are interested in finding good solid games on good maps and even if you want to get some top notch tutorials or tips on making solid maps, then take some time to visit our community site which happens to be on ubi's recommended list.
www.fcmaps.net (http://www.fcmaps.net)
We already have hundreds of maps availible and we run daily games. you can find the info in the FC2 matches and tournaments section.
All of our hosts have solid connections and always host a full nearly timmie free games.
Now for personal requests, I would love to see Atmon get Assault added as an option to the game. All it would take is for the inclusion of an option to "LOCK" one of the diamonds from being picked up. That way any map could play Assault.
I also think that if you are going to take the time and release some DLC then it needs to be compatible with the Editor.
It makes zero sense IMO to not include the Editor (the true lifeblood of the game) in your DLC. You would find that you would have sold a lot more of it if it did.
I just finished a map called STATE UNIVERSITY (all caps). It plays a mean game of Uprising.
Please check it out.
Some other good maps from our community so far are...
Reniventa by JC KARLO
Razors Edge by TOASTMAN
Black gold by FROGM4N
World Invasion Day 2 by oOWILKYOo (this map is going to be featured in the UK version of OXM in January)
Leap of Faith by Reyule Reborn
Dead Mans Hand by Maxprey
Loudmouth Canyon by Stubborn Puppet.
Times Square and Loadout by shortbull NL
These are just a few of the nice maps that have come from our community.
We also host contests and have a big one in the planning stages.
@Cuz; don't get mad at me for giving a little site promo. I posted no links, but I want this community to continue to flourish and not fade out. Thanks.
<span class="ev_code_WHITE">Not sure why you thought I would? Its an establish FC community site links are fine - I added one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif</span>
My gamer tag is the same as my .sig here so look me up. I host a game on most Sunday's at 12:30pm est.
Hope to see you guys there.
Check it out. and come join our site.
RedCPatterson
12-03-2008, 12:39 PM
I belong to a group of 10 people who regularly play vids; we used PCs in the past and loved FC1 (especially assault) and used xboxes more recently and loved FC:I (especially Predator). We all buy the same games, one of which was FC2, but only two of us haven't traded it in for COD W@W. I've held out in the hopes the xbox patch will fix the MP issues, but I'm quickly losing faith and patience. A month was too long for my cohorts, I can tell you that at the two month mark my copy will also be gone. I'd love to come back to playing FC2, but in its current state, it's not fun.
xxCha0tic
12-20-2008, 11:44 PM
The most apparent and important issue to address with any possible patch for this game is the accelerated aim. This I'm sure is due to vehicle handling and the importance of them in the game also. Myself and many others would much rather sacrifice vehicle handling for an even axis, balanced sensitivity and control when aiming. The core aspect of any shooter game is this method of using weapons, the need for more precise and realistic movement with the analog is necessary. I truly believe more players would come back to the online portion of this game along with the single player with an update on this feature. It does not seem fair to those who've played other modern shooters to have their shot thrown off course by poor sensitivity and acceleration issues forcing aiming and shooting to become a chore. Please attempt to fix this problem with the console versions of the game. Thank you.
RedCPatterson
12-20-2008, 11:55 PM
Here's hoping, but as you can see, I posted here 17 days ago and still no TU for the 360.
Sure, they released some machetes, some SP only DLC, 2 patches for PC and 1 for PS3 (arguably insuffient), an asinine Q/A video telling us we're playing it wrong, they even had a 360 game night with the frag dolls (how they managed to keep a game going longer than 10 minutes is beyond me)... all this, and still no TU.
17 days ago, I and one friend hadn't yet traded the game in for COD, now it's just me. Am I stupid, or just hopeful - who knows.
xxCha0tic
12-21-2008, 08:10 AM
This problem needs to be fixed, maybe due to the inactivity of these boards Ubisoft has not taken any account for the same issues we still have with the game. I am speaking for the Xbox 360 version of FC2 and I know there is an equal amount of problems which still remain in the PS3 version. This is a simple fix and only requires a single patch to update. Perhaps it could be downloadable content as an option to adjust the aim acceleration. That would be a great fix and would not require all to DL it, only those who want to. Keep faith in this game and try not to give up on what can be easily accomplished with some developer assistance. Ubisoft please take note of this issue and help out a strong group of supporters who actually remain active on your game and enjoy it for what it is and what it could be. It would be a shame to see this game fade with so many other releases that blatantly deserve to. I believe with this update to the aim acceleration many players would return to the multiplayer portion of the game and the single player would become seemless. I guess this is a message of finality in that if this is not fixed and/or answered in some way soon, you may lose the few who have been behind you and your game for so long. Once again, please understand what we are addressing and take action as soon as possible, it would be so greatly appreciated by all. Thank you.
TX_SASQUATCH
12-22-2008, 06:43 AM
Seriously guys, with our country in a recession, banks and the big three automakers and many major corporations whining for bailouts and handouts, do you really think Ubisoft is reading all your posts? Keep it real, they are not, it's simple busines economics, at some point they cut their losses and move on to the next version. Post after post on here complaining about this or that isn't going to accomplish no more than what it is now, a place for you to voice your frustration while making you "feel" like you will be heard.
Ranger-up! and go play the game!
xxCha0tic
12-22-2008, 08:08 PM
maybe a company should keep their focus on the titles they have already released, instead of wasting money on new ones that will only get the same treatment the others did. also, i guess this is the only place we can go to be heard at all by Ubisoft, and if we all have an opinion, then state yours without making it seem as though the others dont need one. i dont think anyone paying 60 dollars for a game during this recession is too thrilled about not getting their money's worth either, and it doesnt require much time, money, or energy to put out a simple patch to fix some minor issues with a great game. this all comes down to whether or not Ubisoft intends to sell their games at all, because as ive stated, no one wants to spend money and contribute to a company that doesnt back up its titles. if you embark upon making the game, please respect that you must also back the game up post-launch and meet the needs of the players. it is a simple request of many people, and it should have been met long ago.
RedCPatterson
12-22-2008, 09:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX_SASQUATCH:
Seriously guys, with our country in a recession, banks and the big three automakers and many major corporations whining for bailouts and handouts, do you really think Ubisoft is reading all your posts? Keep it real, they are not, it's simple busines economics, at some point they cut their losses and move on to the next version. Post after post on here complaining about this or that isn't going to accomplish no more than what it is now, a place for you to voice your frustration while making you "feel" like you will be heard.
Ranger-up! and go play the game! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And how do corporations get in the scenario where they need to beg for money or face insolvency? **** products, **** service, no customers.
TX_SASQUATCH
12-23-2008, 09:21 AM
Now Red your just upset and know the answer to your own question so I won't waste text, I know where you're headed and we probably have the same opinions but I get your point as you do mine.
Chaotic your offended by my statement but take it wrong, just saying Ubi isn't taking action on every little whiney post on this forum, if they did I'd give you my next check bud. Don't let the game get you down dude http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, you be in control of you, play the game or go play another...like Bad Company, Fallout 3, etc, etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif...there are plenty of software companies out there that have their act together and want your business.
CosMc
12-23-2008, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RedCPatterson:
Here's hoping, but as you can see, I posted here 17 days ago and still no TU for the 360.
Sure, they released some machetes, some SP only DLC, 2 patches for PC and 1 for PS3 (arguably insuffient), an asinine Q/A video telling us we're playing it wrong, they even had a 360 game night with the frag dolls (how they managed to keep a game going longer than 10 minutes is beyond me)... all this, and still no TU.
17 days ago, I and one friend hadn't yet traded the game in for COD, now it's just me. Am I stupid, or just hopeful - who knows. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not sure how in the world we can be told how to play a FPS FREEEEEE ROAMMMMM... ridiculous. We console users cant just stare at a pc screen to learn how to play a game, that defeats the purpose of FREEEEE ROAMMMMM
xxCha0tic
12-23-2008, 12:10 PM
The point of this forum and this topic is to let the developers know about issues with the game and/or the way we feel about it. i dont feel offended by your comment but more ashamed that a fellow player would rather overlook a problem than have it dealt with respectably. maybe youre right when you say we could all just go play another game if we whine about the one we want to play, but that wouldnt accomplish anything, as if we're going to at all. leave this forum for those of us who actually have valid suggestions and comments about the game, not to dispute a fellow players' opinion or complaint.
RedCPatterson
12-23-2008, 12:16 PM
Sasquatch - I do understand where you're coming from and yes they can't feasibly fix every item of feedback. I'm mostly upset not because of the lost 65$ or the ruin of a good franchise, but because my expectations were set VERY LOW (I expected FC:I with better graphics) and ubi couldn't even deliver that. I must admit, many developers **** it up (bad company and DICE i hear is one via their forums) but some don't and I buy from them if i can keep my consumer ADHD in check - obviously i didn't for FC2.
CosMC - It's hilarious isn't it, the Q/A video was not created for ubi to acknowledge problems and itemize how they were to be addressed. Instead it was used as a marketing tool "go buy FC2" with a veneer of trying to placate the mob.
TX_SASQUATCH
12-23-2008, 01:26 PM
Chaotic I understood the point of the topic but I didn't realize it was also the point of this particular forum...being feedback to Ubi. If that's the case then don't feel ashamed because I'll join you guys with my list of gripes now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
oh but first Red, I understand all about the consumer ADHD problem...I deal with that as well...
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif
GRIPES...
a) At Rank 16 I only need 3 more D's before having all the weapons which I'm proud to say is finally the MGL-140 Nancy girl cheerleader weapon class and it sucks it's my last choice to spend diamonds on. But I know once I spend my next 3 D's I'll have no other place to spend collected diamonds from ranking and the popup menu will come up ever respawn in MP telling me I have freaking diamonds to spend while knowing I have nowhere to spend them because Ubi programmers overlooked programming it to let us "buy" Manuals at this point.
b) Server lag, sure I'll join the bandwagon, nothing frustrates me more than 30 5.56 nato rounds to someones face and they still stand their.
c) Where are the animals for the mapmaker, I only see birds...I would like a map with 500 wildebeasts perhaps.
d) Ubi's DLC was a waste of my $10-15 bucks since I have to run around looking for a silly sawed off shotgun or silenced shotgun, seriously who did the research on weapons for Ubi, look at the big hitter gaming companies and get an idea of some real weapons before adding some arcade game silliness to a decent game, makes no sense. And since we bought your silly DLC you should have allowed it to be a weapon choice, arcade or not in the loadout, the addon patch you made was by no means thought out from a project scope perspective.
In closing I have to admit that I feel good letting all that out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif...just kidding I feel no different, so now lets go play http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, you two add me let's do some TDM sometime http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif