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shiva06
06-03-2006, 04:57 AM
Timesplitters series was awesome because of mapmaker, and Haze definately needs a mapmaker!

That's one of the main reasons TS stood out from other FPS games. If Haze doesn't have it, it will just be like every other FPS, and to be completely honest, it won't be worth the purchase.

In simple terms, Haze without mapmaker is ****, and will just be another FPS that's worse than Halo.

shiva06
06-03-2006, 04:57 AM
Timesplitters series was awesome because of mapmaker, and Haze definately needs a mapmaker!

That's one of the main reasons TS stood out from other FPS games. If Haze doesn't have it, it will just be like every other FPS, and to be completely honest, it won't be worth the purchase.

In simple terms, Haze without mapmaker is ****, and will just be another FPS that's worse than Halo.

Xylaquin
06-03-2006, 05:04 AM
Ever heard of 3rd party mapmakers? Like gMax for example.

Unless you're talking about a console patform, then you're screwed atm.

shiva06
06-03-2006, 05:10 AM
I mean on consoles hermit.

Secondly, we definitely need mapmaker otherwise I sure as hell won't be buying Haze, and I can already tell many gamers will just think of it as another FPS, if it doesn't have mapmaker.

fazz04
06-03-2006, 05:13 AM
Mapmaker!!! That would be awesome! I'd only buy Haze if it had a mapmaker. That's what made Timesplitters so good, swapping the maps online was awesome!

deded999
06-03-2006, 05:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shiva06:
we definitely need mapmaker otherwise I sure as hell won't be buying Haze, and I can already tell many gamers will just think of it as another FPS, if it doesn't have mapmaker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I highly doubt most people would even notice there was a mapmaker there at first - people notice the game first and foremost, not the extra features. Although I would agree that MM is a really great addition to a game, (especially when you have online play), not buying an otherwise great game because it doesn't have MM seems a little short-sighted, unless you really love making maps above all else I suppose. I'd love to see a MM in Haze, (or future FRD releases), but if it's not there I'll still be buying this game on my present impressions.

In some ways I think FRD may be missing a trick if MM doesn't show - with online being available across the board now, anything that adds functionality in such a major way could be a big bonus and help to extend the life of a game. We only need to see the popularity of mods and extra content on PC to see this. Even Field Commander on PSP has a MM, so this kind of option is becoming more widespread and online functionality is often about extra content and user-creation, and with a HDD available for all the machines, the possibilites can only get better. This could also help differentiate Haze from the large number of FPS which seem to be in the pipeline.

The thing is, FRD will have already seen the popularity (or lack of - it's difficult to tell, but it may be that for MM fans it's a huge plus, but for the majority of players it's not that important) of the MM in TSFP, and may feel that it isn't worth putting it in for Haze, especially as it is looking like quite a different game to TS, where the MM has been an integral part from day one and links in very well with it's game-style. I would definetly expect it to return in a future TS though.

Who knows, with the time left until release, maybe FRD can work something out, but I suspect unless it's built-in from the ground-up, a MM would be a tricky thing to shoe-horn in to a game. Fingers crossed though eh?

EDIT: As there's now two threads on MM, I would suggest we use this one for MM discussion, or it could get very confusing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

shiva06
06-03-2006, 04:32 PM
Yeah I somewhat agree with you, but I don't think FRD will be making another Timesplitters, and it doesn't seem like there will be a great FPS with mapmaker, and since it would be really nice for next gen (can you imagine making a map with those amazing graphics) it would be great if FRD included Mapmaker in Haze, since the game allready looks extremely promising. Could be even better than Far Cry's mapmaker.

deded999
06-03-2006, 06:00 PM
That's my point really - my major comparison to the TS MM is the CryEngine, which is a great MM with far more possibilites available than in TS, but with a matching hike in difficulty in setting up a worthy map, (I've only played the PC version though - any comments on the FCI Xbox version would be appreciated).

With this in mind, I still believe the tile system, (or something similar, perhaps with procedurally generated terrain based on tile placement, with the CPU blending the meeting points), is the best method for a console MM to take, at least without some extremely powerful and equally user-friendly MM being created in the future. It's so easy for a player to create a map with drag and drop, and then develop skills later as you tinker with it and extend your creation. The (PC) FC engine by contrast requires study of numerous PDF's on mapmaking settings to be able to even grasp the possibilities.

Obviously this is partly because of the PC origin, but there's a fundamental difference here: the FC MM is an extension of the utility the devs used for making the game itself, while the TS MM is wholly a creation for the player, hence the user-friendliness. Whichever system is used, the planning has to begin early on, whether tailoring the level-builder for use by the player or designing a MM system from scratch.

The impression I get is that FRD have not planned for a Haze MM from the beginning, in which case I doubt they could produce one at this comparatively late stage in production. However, (and hopefully) I may be wrong. I would also add that I think you're wrong about a future TS - I think FRD will definetly return to the series, and that the experience gained in creating Haze can only add to a new Timesplitters game, which I'm quite sure will contain a highly advanced MM, in whatever guise FRD think fit. Shame we have to wait for it so long, but I guess it will be worth the wait...

Xylaquin
06-04-2006, 03:56 AM
No need to write an essay deded!

to be honset the mapmaker in the ts series did not make as awesome maps as the ones FRD made; simply because the mapmaker has limitations. If the main reason you like TS is because of the mapmaker then I'm at wonders.

If people are now gonna presure-ize (spelling)FRD into making all their games have MapMaker, that's a bit unfair.

fallenshad0w
06-04-2006, 07:17 AM
In a way its a pity their using a different engine, if they used the same one as they did in TS they may of been able to copy the coding for the TS one into Haze at the last minute if they felt the need to... Still at least the new engine provides the stylised graphics need for this type of game.

Answering the question everyone seems to be asking "will there be another TS" the answer is yes check the FAQ on the FRD website, they answer the question with the quote "Sure, when no idea"

deded999
06-04-2006, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xylaquin:
No need to write an essay deded! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol, if I can use one-sentence replies I will! The thing is, often you can post a reply that's too short and only ends up confusing people because you haven't explained yourself correctly. I'd rather post one big reply that people understand than have to constantly correct myself in numerous posts...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">to be honset the mapmaker in the ts series did not make as awesome maps as the ones FRD made; simply because the mapmaker has limitations. If the main reason you like TS is because of the mapmaker then I'm at wonders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because they aren't of the quality or size of the FRD-created levels doesn't mean they are useless or rubbish, far from it, (although the ability to make real outdoor maps would be great). As I stated above, the MM was designed externally from the main TS level-builder, (otherwise you couldn't use tiles). It may be that a future TS MM would be based on the FRD level designer, or it may go with tiles again. Each approach has positives and negatives, but even the original TS MM was a great addition. The only problem is the more you can do, the more you want to do.

One of my mates tried to make a four stage 'map', where you started on one map and could exit through one of three exits, (linked to bronze, silver and gold awards). The player would then choose say the bronze exit and the next map would bring them in through the bronze entrance, (unfortunately this also required multiple maps) so you could follow multiple routes through the four stages. A great idea, but hampered by memory and other options. I think anyone that used MM much hit the limits pretty quickly, but it's how you get around those limits to make the map you want that's half the fun.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If people are now gonna presure-ize (spelling)FRD into making all their games have MapMaker, that's a bit unfair. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well if people like a feature it's fair enough that they make their feelings known about it, (within limits) - I think FRD will make their own decisions, influenced by fan reaction yes, but not bound by them.

Xylaquin
06-04-2006, 11:49 AM
One of the main restrictions of mapmaker for me, is the tiles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but TS1 had the most different tiles to choose from. Combining tiles would have also been nice.

urowned
06-06-2006, 07:14 PM
the mapmaker on timespliters sucked *** it was a nice ideas but too useless

neeko you should not waste ur tiem

deded999
06-08-2006, 09:48 AM
Nothing like having your hard work appreciated huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I know a lot of people that would disagree with that view - mapmaker is one of the most often related plus-points when people refer to TS in my experience. This kind of user-control and adaptability can surely only get more relevant as time goes on.

fallenshad0w
06-08-2006, 10:20 AM
map maker was fun to use, despite the fact i was terrible at it... well coming up with ideas that is, once i had one(very rarely) some one else had probably already thought it up and designed so it wasnt much point in me doing it...

LeadSquirrel
06-10-2006, 05:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deded999:
I highly doubt most people would even notice there was a mapmaker there at first - people notice the game first and foremost, not the extra features. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree, although people notice the actual game first and thats the main part of whether they like it or not, I think that the extra features play a big part in making the game different from others. People knowing these features could often increase anticipation of the game too.

Also I would really like a MapMaker.

shiva06
06-25-2006, 06:09 PM
Yeah exactly, without extra features it is just another console FPS that is worse than Halo...

I think the main reason Timesplitters set itself apart from Halo was the fast chatoic gameplay, but I thought mapmaker was definitely an essential part of it.

Rc_guy24
06-25-2006, 08:54 PM
The game shouldnt have to have mapmaking in it to make it playable. For one I dont like when there is map maker because it will take me forever to find one that someone made that is actually a good quality map but it certainly would make haze the best game ever if it had all the customizing features you could possibly have in a game but think about If people could just be making maps better all the time then would you really expect a Haze 2 to come out if the original Haze was so customizable that you wouldnt need a Haze 2? That would be cool but you wouldnt get another great story that Haze might have.

Xylaquin
06-26-2006, 12:50 AM
no matter if FRD include a PC mapmaker or not, there will be no doubt a program that will make pc maps for us ^_^

PsychoticGECKOX
07-07-2006, 01:06 PM
I don't believe hearing FRD mention anything about a mapmaker, yet. However, in the video I did see some useful hints to the setting of the game, yet I am still curious if it will have split-screen multiplayer.

deded999
07-07-2006, 06:02 PM
There's definetly no mapmaker in Haze, see the FRD FAQS.

Co-op play is in however - what this means for split-screen is anybody's guess though.

Xoelaras
07-19-2006, 12:05 PM
We need a mapmaker i agree, i love the timesplitters series the most. Thats why i cant wait for haze. But since its with ubisoft, they need an Outdoor mapmaker like the Far cry series. Either way this looks good.

Korath36
07-23-2006, 07:22 PM
For time spliters 98% of the game play for my was making maps. Iam simply going to buy haze if it has a map maker or not. If haze does have a map maker I hope you would be able to make larger maps than TS, and also me detailed.

DarkMart
07-29-2006, 09:26 AM
For Time Splitters, i maked like 100 maps and i really appreciate to have a map maker. Seriously, a good easy map maker is possible for a game like HAZE. Tools from map editors of shooters and RTS can be usefull for this game. Check the online data base of Time Splitters, it's great ! Ok, we can download some poor maps, but we can have excellent maps too !

deded999
07-29-2006, 11:46 AM
Regardless of the lack of MM in Haze, keep your fingers crossed for a much greater MM in the next Timesplitters - there's so much more scope in the TS universe for mapmaking anyway, and with the experience FRD will gain in NG with Haze, we've got a whole lot to look forward to for TS NG.

Fates.Dark.Hand
08-15-2006, 04:33 PM
Map Maker?...yeah nice ideas, but again they are ideas, not many games have them these days, i think they might have droped out of the FPS trend now...but Haze having one would be sweet none the less.

Korath36
08-15-2006, 07:15 PM
Talking about not too many map makers in games.... How many next gen games even have map makers? The only thing I can think of is Tenchu: Serran (Xbox 360). I hope map makers won't die out... Due to very detailed maps like the maps in Halo.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Link_Death
08-16-2006, 12:06 AM
Map Maker OMG for TS sucked nuff said console map makers=not a good thing. Leave the map maker to PC games.

deded999
08-16-2006, 04:37 AM
I've got to disagree with you there. Sure, TS/console mapmakers might not be able to compare with a PC mapmaker (Duh! Obviously), but they don't usually suck, they just make the best job they can with limited resources. Try running a mapmaker on PC with less than 32Mb total memory and see how far you get. You're attitude seems to be that only PC gamers should be allowed mapmakers which is rubbish.

I do know where you're coming from having used the Cry engine MM from Far Cry, which offers sooooo much more than consoles do, but really, if you don't like em, don't use em, but don't tell me I shouldn't have them because PC stuff is better. Many people have got a lot of pleasure from the TS mapmakers over the years and I certainly hope they include (a much improved) MM in the next Timesplitters games.

Eggy_Joshua
08-16-2006, 05:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deded999:
I've got to disagree with you there. Sure, TS/console mapmakers might not be able to compare with a PC mapmaker (Duh! Obviously), but they don't usually suck, they just make the best job they can with limited resources. Try running a mapmaker on PC with less than 32Mb total memory and see how far you get. You're attitude seems to be that only PC gamers should be allowed mapmakers which is rubbish.

I do know where you're coming from having used the Cry engine MM from Far Cry, which offers sooooo much more than consoles do, but really, if you don't like em, don't use em, but don't tell me I shouldn't have them because PC stuff is better. Many people have got a lot of pleasure from the TS mapmakers over the years and I certainly hope they include (a much improved) MM in the next Timesplitters games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well said

Fates.Dark.Hand
08-16-2006, 06:00 PM
Map Makers just add the depth in games, whats to dislike? the maps you like you can save, and the ones you dont you can just regenarate. whats wrong with them, definatly bring them back from the dead...if they are dead that is &gt;_&gt;

cob_shaw
09-01-2006, 05:23 AM
There is no mapmaker in Haze, and you know what? I'm still gonna buy it! They chose not to do mapmaker so that they could work on the other aspects of the game, refining all the other things to make it perfect (or as close as possible). Haze looked good enough to eat in the movie, and if what FRD say is true (that it looks 5 times better now, than it did before) then how can you not buy it. Mapmaker is just a little add on feature, something that lenghtens the life-span of a game. It won't make Haze any less of a great game without it.

Korath36
09-05-2006, 04:28 PM
Well I will still love a map maker, its increases the life span of the game buy a lot. I'am still play TS3 since the day it came out. I will probly get Haze if it doesn't have a map maker after looking at it a little bit more, but I would be very happy if it does. Or at least Times Splitters 4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif at the later date of 2009 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

deded999
09-05-2006, 04:30 PM
If we do really have to wait that long, I would seriously hope to get a doozy of a mapmaker in the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Korath36
09-05-2006, 04:47 PM
And no more glitchs like:
Running through walls.
Falling through the ground.
Horror Tileset, Buncker Tile, the ablity to run sniper people under that tile (one way mirror).
Horror Tileset, Base Wall Tile, you would telepot through the ground if you went to a turret and the tile was positioned a certain way.
The Car stuck on trap tile, If you landed on the car, you would teleport to your original location of where you jumped from.
And many more.

I even made a map called glitch which contained most of these glitches.

cob_shaw
09-07-2006, 12:21 PM
More memory space would be needed obviously. As well as a wider range of, and more varied tile sets, item sets and vehicles. More possibilities with logic and of course a better AI. That would make a great Map Maker!

Masterkain2006
09-11-2006, 05:39 AM
Hey Xylaquin it's been a long time since the TS3 forums, nice to see you!

Back on topic : I'd really like a mapmaker like the one in Farcry.

shiva06
10-24-2006, 10:45 PM
Haze is shaping up so nicely, can't wait for more videos/pics...

If there wasnt a map editor I'd certainly like some other kind of customisation in the game.

Like create a character or customise guns. Mapmaker would be awesome though, so fingers crossed they think about doing it.

shiva06
11-19-2006, 02:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deded999:
If we do really have to wait that long, I would seriously hope to get a doozy of a mapmaker in the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fingers crossed Lucasarts and FRD are making Timesplitters: Revenge of the...timesplitters.

DarkMart
01-08-2007, 10:53 AM
Imagine a map maker like in Far Cry Instinct Predator or Pariah with the tiles of Time Splitters...