BulletTooth's post on the poll [Archive]

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Didzi

01-30-2004, 10:46 AM

Hi

Bullet on the last post of witness' poll , why did you say

The moderators and myself will make the final decision regarding Witness. """You all had your chance and you blew it""

How did we blew it when it was simply a poll were there was 2 options one for yes and one for no, some people clicked yes and some no , how does that mean we blew it

is it because the poll didnt work out how you expected?

\9btw i didnt mean this in a bad way i just wondered why you typed that part of the sentence)

Didzi

01-30-2004, 10:46 AM

.BulletTooth.

01-30-2004, 10:52 AM

It has nothing to do with that, the poll has no bearing in our decision as it was abused and the manner in which members on BOTH SIDES of the fence conducted themselves in a manner that would make the poll inconclusive.

Originally, I intended to let the poll be a significant factor in our decision, but seeing how it turned-out (the flaming, the accusations, people showing up out of the "woodwork"), the mods and myself determined that the poll ultimately has no merit and will not be a factor in our decision, no matter which way the voting was favored.

I am sorry, but if you don't like it, then you can leave if you wish.

BulletTooth

Casey 'BulletTooth' Keefe
Community Manager - Tom Clancy
NAFCSC - SF Chapter

"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment, remember we are eternal, all this pain is an illusion." -Maynard James Keenan

FB2

01-30-2004, 10:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Didzi:
Hi

Bullet on the last post of witness' poll , why did you say

The moderators and myself will make the final decision regarding Witness. """You all had your chance and you blew it""

How did we blew it when it was simply a poll were there was 2 options one for yes and one for no, some people clicked yes and some no , how does that mean we blew it

is it because the poll didnt work out how you expected?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to respond to that here since the thread is locked, I guess.

BulletTooth obviously had good intentions with the poll, but IMO, very poor judgement. It's a seriously flawed polling SYSTEM that he used, painfully easy to abuse. I watched it happen right in front of me very early this morning as I was reading some of the thread.

And that is ignoring the fact that nobody who is under suspicion for anything deserves to have his fate decided by a random, completely anonymous poll that anyone can vote in, complete with any kind of bias they may have completely unrelated to the matter at hand, as was proven by a post late in the thread.

Good intentions aside, BT, you *had* to have known that's how it was going to go with this crowd...you've been around here long to enough to know the score and realize that was going to happen. An "official" poll like that served no purpose whatsoever except to incite a witchhunt and lynch mob. That's why so many of us old-school RSE denizens don't bother with this place anymore.

Just IMHO, but you woulda been better off selecting 10 or so of the more respected community members here to sit in on the decision...then do it backchannel and let the community know of your decision and why you made it. It's not a democracy, and even IN a democracy, EVERYONE doesn''t get to decide the fate of someone accused of something...people are carefully chosen for that.

</$.02>

.BulletTooth.

01-30-2004, 11:01 AM

It was also given so that the community had a chance to at least have their say, but alas the decision falls back on the mods and myself. At least nobody can complain that I didn't try to seek community input on a matter so significant as this one.

BulletTooth

Casey 'BulletTooth' Keefe
Community Manager - Tom Clancy
NAFCSC - SF Chapter

"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment, remember we are eternal, all this pain is an illusion." -Maynard James Keenan

Pope

01-30-2004, 11:01 AM

Just to clarify something - someone brought up the single-digit posters in that thread right before it was closed. Many of those single-posters are oldschool Rainbow Sixers. The IP holdouts from the old RSE forums established an independent forum community after UBIsoft purchased Red Storm Entertainment. It is still going strong today. These are the people that have known Witness for the longest, posting and playing with him for six years now.

UbiSoft/RSE Forum Moderator
ICQ [15950501]
pope@theheap.net

Didzi

01-30-2004, 11:11 AM

I only wanted to knoiw how it had been abused , i thought maybe it was with someone hacking the poll outcome thats all.
I dont intend to leave as i like raven shield , like the post i made earlier i have never had problems with raven-shield like most people and i have never had any problems with the mods as well come to think of it.

and also i dont want to leave as iam a beta tester for far Cry and this looks to be another quality title by ubisoft

keep up the good work Bullet and as i said before i didnt intend it in a bad way i just didnt understand it

hrapter

01-30-2004, 11:19 AM

i totaly agree with what BT has done and also agree that some not all abused the fact of the poll to flame and at times talk total horse poo.
we were givin a chance for some input by ubi(BT works for them) and its now all blown for future involement thanks to a minority. and that minority SUCK big time.
hope you stay with us wit cos a good mod is hard too find.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are two kinds of people: the ones who need to be told
and the ones who figure it out all by themselves."

"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense."
Quotes from !Tom Clancy!

http://thesigsite.com/home/uploads/sig%20the%20one.JPG

FB2

01-30-2004, 11:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by hrapter:
i totaly agree with what BT has done and also agree that some not all abused the fact of the poll to flame and at times talk total horse poo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not the fact that the poll was abused to flame people, it's the fact that THE POLL ITSELF was abused that is the problem.

Besides, anyone who thinks that a situation as sensitive as this one WOULDN'T invoke a lot of emotion from both sides is living in a dream world.

hrapter

01-30-2004, 11:25 AM

fb2 i meant the poll and the flamming its hard to type went your pi$$@d off kk

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are two kinds of people: the ones who need to be told
and the ones who figure it out all by themselves."

"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense."
Quotes from !Tom Clancy!

http://thesigsite.com/home/uploads/sig%20the%20one.JPG

FB2

01-30-2004, 11:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by hrapter:
fb2 i meant the poll and the flamming its hard to type went your pi$$@d off kk <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

o-kay...

Nine

01-30-2004, 11:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pope:
Just to clarify something - someone brought up the single-digit posters in that thread right before it was closed. Many of those single-posters are oldschool Rainbow Sixers. The IP holdouts from the old RSE forums established an independent forum community after UBIsoft purchased Red Storm Entertainment. It is still going strong today. These are the people that have known Witness for the longest, posting and playing with him for six years now.

_UbiSoft/RSE Forum Moderator_
ICQ [15950501]
pope@theheap.net<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell me about it... I guess some people don't realize that just because you don't hang around *posting* here every day you're out of touch with the games or the community happenings... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

* waves at BT *

D0GSoldier

01-30-2004, 11:51 AM

Well either way Witness is globally banned for cheating against unsuspecting players and will never be able to bother us online, if he was a mature cheater...unless ubi gives him a new cdkey which would be right up their alley to do goofy unsuspecting things like that lol

Owell he's gonna stay.

But it was wrong for BT to say we could make desision...then throw away the results of our decision saying we were to immature...now how mature is that huh.

[This message was edited by D0GSoldier on Fri January 30 2004 at 11:59 AM.]

.BulletTooth.

01-30-2004, 11:59 AM

I think I was misunderstood, but it does stand that since Wit is a moderator of these forums, the opinions of people who are not a part of this specific forum community carry less weight than the opinions of those that are.

Now, before anyone gets excited, I am in no way saying that one person's opinion means more than another or that one is better than the other, but if they are not an active member of this specific forum community, then their opinion does in fact carry less weight in deciding the outcomes that affect this specific forum community.

And why are you getting so defensive, I said the majority of the community, not all of the community.

Witness would rather be struck blind than to have someone give him a new CD-Key.

BulletTooth

Casey 'BulletTooth' Keefe
Community Manager - Tom Clancy
NAFCSC - SF Chapter

"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment, remember we are eternal, all this pain is an illusion." -Maynard James Keenan

UG_Tru

01-30-2004, 12:29 PM

Well no offense, but we know how the mods and you feel about it anyway, so that topic and ultimately this one is useless. He'll stay (unless he resigns which is doubtful) regardless of what any of us peons think or say.

---------------
I *don't* want a cheater moderating these forums. Signature petition to have Witness removed as moderator.

OA.llama

01-30-2004, 02:18 PM

i thought it would be obvious to replace the guy, is he not replaceable?

and before you assume im coming out of the woodwork, just know i view these forums everyday.I just dont have the urge to reply to ever thread thats started.

FB2

01-30-2004, 02:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>He'll stay (unless he resigns which is doubtful) regardless of what any of us peons think or say. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, now you're getting it.

This isn't a democracy, even if this misguided poll has caused you to think otherwise. BT and the rest of the powers-that-be should have made an informed decision and just told you how it was going to be, so people with chips on their shoulder (like you) didn't start a witchhunt and lynch mob (which is exactly what happened).

In the real world, random, anonymous people don't get to vote on someone's guilt, innocence or their sentencing, and guess what, you shouldn't get to here, either. Wit's "guilt", if it DOES exist, has NOT been proven beyond a reasonable doubt (to those of us with half a brain and the power to think independently, anyway), so why should his fate be left up to people like you who just want to see him burn, based on a "catch" by a piece of experimental software?

If that rubs you the wrong way, frankly, I don't care...guess you're just gonna have to cope, and I wish you luck with it.

UG_Tru

01-30-2004, 02:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by FB2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>He'll stay (unless he resigns which is doubtful) regardless of what any of us peons think or say. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the real world, random, anonymous people don't get to vote on someone's guilt, innocence or their sentencing, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, you have absolutely no concept of what a trial by jury is.

---------------
I *don't* want a cheater moderating these forums. Signature petition to have Witness removed as moderator.

.BulletTooth.

01-30-2004, 02:58 PM

Yeah, a jury is a very effective way of trying someone. Just ask OJ Simpson, Snoop Dogg, and Ray Lewis...

BulletTooth

Casey 'BulletTooth' Keefe
Community Manager - Tom Clancy
NAFCSC - SF Chapter

"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment, remember we are eternal, all this pain is an illusion." -Maynard James Keenan

FB2

01-30-2004, 02:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Wow, you have absolutely no concept of what a trial by jury is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't?

ROFLMAO!!

Random, anonymous people ALL get their votes counted in a jury trial setting? EVERYONE that feels like getting involved in a jury trial setting gets their say in a person's punishment?

Funny, in all my years in Law Enforcement, the court cases I was involved in, a jury was carefully CHOSEN and only THOSE people got to make the decision.

That's not what happened with this poll.

But yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about. *stifles laughter*

Nice try, though. Run along now, let the adults talk.

FB2

01-30-2004, 03:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by BulletTooth.50:
Yeah, a jury is a very effective way of trying someone. Just ask OJ Simpson and Snoop Dogg..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who was that barb aimed at?

.BulletTooth.

01-30-2004, 03:04 PM

Nobody. I am just pointing out that most of America believed these people to be guilty, yet they were not found guilty by a jury of 12 people.

OJ Simpson was later found liable for the deaths of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown in a civil trial, ultimately determining he was guilty.

FB2, you are right. I should have just made a call either way. Had I known this was going to turn out the way it did, I would have never brought it up to the community in the first place. There was no easy way out of the situation and I hope you understand I was making what I thought was the best attempt at resolving it. We all make mistakes.

BulletTooth

Casey 'BulletTooth' Keefe
Community Manager - Tom Clancy
NAFCSC - SF Chapter

"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment, remember we are eternal, all this pain is an illusion." -Maynard James Keenan

FB2

01-30-2004, 03:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by BulletTooth.50:
Nobody. I am just pointing out that most of America believed these people to be guilty, yet they were not found guilty by a jury of 12 people.

OJ Simpson was later found liable for the deaths of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown in a civil trial, ultimately determining he was guilty.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct, but you really can't choose those two trials as being indicative of the jury system. Both of those trials were contaminated top-to-bottom by the circus atmosphere that surrounded the cases.

Two cases out of how many million that work correctly? You gotta look at the mode and the mean when it comes to this kind of stuff, not the outliers. =)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>FB2, you are right. I should have just made a call either way. Had I known this was going to turn out the way it did, I would have never brought it up to the community in the first place. There was no easy way out of the situation and I hope you understand I was making what I thought was the best attempt at resolving it. We all make mistakes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, no worries, I COMPLETELY understand. Live and learn...the reason I groaned when I saw the poll was because I've seen how far this community has fallen in the last two years...I *knew* it was going to be bad.

Good intentions backfire for everyone....no biggie. Everyone here will have to cope, and they will....some just might need a liitle nudging. =)

.BulletTooth.

01-30-2004, 03:20 PM

I was thinking more along the lines of a swift kick to the behind for some of them... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BulletTooth

Casey 'BulletTooth' Keefe
Community Manager - Tom Clancy
NAFCSC - SF Chapter

"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment, remember we are eternal, all this pain is an illusion." -Maynard James Keenan

cobaka

01-30-2004, 04:23 PM

I would like to thank BT for his efforts in this impossible (and no doubt aggravating) situation. A community Manager trying to involve the community! What were you thinking! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

A man only needs one rectum. - F. Salter, "Recon Scout"

http://www.justresting.com/pictures/JustResting2.jpg

D0GSoldier

01-30-2004, 05:58 PM

yea, i'd just rather never been informed that witness was globally banned...this matter is gonna die and things will never be the same.

Witness

01-30-2004, 07:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by D0GSoldier:
yea, i'd just rather never been informed that witness was globally banned...this matter is gonna die and things will never be the same.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a small correction. I haven't been globally banned, but will soon be added to Punksbusted.com's master ban list which is adopted and endorsed by some of the server admins (and a ladder or two) in the Raven Shield community.

.Wit

Witness
Ubisoft/RSE Forum Moderator
Email: witness@tacticaladvantage.com

There are 10 kinds of people in this world: Those that understand binary and those that don't.