Haven: Not for me it seems. [Archive]

ImperialDane

02-04-2011, 06:31 AM

Well the HoMM VI site was updates with more units, so i thought i'd peek in and have a look at the units of my favorite faction from HoMM V, Haven. And as i looked and read about the new units, i couldn't help but notice i wasn't feeling ecstatic, excited or even remotely interested, i was getting a feeling of detachment and slight dissapointment.

I know that the purpose of the faction was not solely to please me, but i can't help but get the impression that this haven is rather different from the old and well, all other havens in a quite noticable way, and in my opinion, not a good one.

To those saying: "well i quite like the new haven" Good for you ! and i am happy for you. I wish i could share your enthusiasm, but ultimately i end up feeling like i did with Diablo III when all was revealed :
Like none of it spoke to me, like the range of characters present were meant to appeal to a completely different audience, in the case of Diablo III, apparently the lone rogue wolf sort of types. And while i could look at it and say, well that's interesting, it just didn't have an appeal to me, we don't all need to be the lone rogue who doesn't follow the book or any book, or some noble savage. How about some more civilized characters ? Some who can actually work together with others and who's flaws don't involve being dark and brooding.

And for HoMM VI ? What are the sort of things that bother me ? Well, it's just too shiny, too ornate, too impractical and just seems insensible on so many levels.

I mean what soldiers there are seems curiously ornate and shiny, generally giving me the impression of being toy soldiers rather than forces of some Feudal empire, never mind that the attempt of giving some sort of Roman empire feel to it fall short, also because of the high shiny-ness and silly ornateness.

look at the Praetorian and the helm which to me seems awfully fragile and just offers an opponent a good chance of ripping it off, the spear which seems unwieldy or how about the cape ? I mean a cape for infantry ?

or how about the marksmen with the nice eagle on their healmet, which seems like it would easily break off in a breeze.

What of the sister ? Why on earth would you send someone like that into battle ? Where are the battlepriests of HoMM V ? Or any sort of sensible general who deems it necessary to have religious troops on the field.

And again, i know, this is just my opinion, but i'd like to get it out since this feels important to me.

It was a hard blow losing Disciples III of which i had been a great fan for a long time, until their visual designs appeared which were erratic, nonsensical half the time and even more impractical half the time.

And i won't devolve this into Disciples III as i did tell myself back then i wouldn't focus too much on it, but when i see this.. I feel a bit necessary, but to finish this little bit all i have to say is Disciples III broke my heart and while Heroes of Might and Magic VI isn't doing that, it is leaving me a bit sad.

I mean i like some of all the things, i like having another fantasy turn based strategy game in the world of Ashan. But i can't help but feel this is a wrong turn for the haven.

I mean i'm not sure what to say of it now, is it a sort of pseudo-roman empire ? A feudal empire ? Are they worshipping a god of good or just the sun ? And i can't help but feel that this sudden sun aspect being thrown into it mighth have played into the whole shiny aspect of the faction. But again, it just does not appeal to me.

Where is the Feudal medieval empire in this ? Where is the actual army rather than just the private guards of apparently a not awfully practical emperor. There are just so many things that i can't get to make sense or can find reasonable.

I mean i'd love to be able to find the haven fun, but i can't. And the other 4 factions at the moment just don't do it either, i don't care for orcs, daemons or vampires and corpses.

I like medieval troops, swordsmen, knights in armour, fanatical crusaders, zealous warrior priests. Perhaps i am just part of a dying target audience. For which i can't do much and can't expect Ubisoft to go "well hold up, Imperial Dane is sad, we'd best redesign the entire haven faction !"

But i do feel like voicing my concerns with this and pointing out that at least to me. This seems out of place and not really like a haven faction. It just feels like, well something incredibly ornate, yet soulless. Like a hollywood movie gone bad. And i certainly can't see this become the haven of HoMM V at all. I mean this would just crumble and humanity left to rot since this is not something that can fight anything.

At least in my opinion.

So i think i've said all i can about this. And generally, well i just feel left out and not really able to participate, i hope HoMM VI does well, and i hope that some expansion might bring me something i can enjoy. But for now, i'll have to pass.

So to the rest of you, i hope you'll have fun with them and the other factions. And i hope that some of this makes sense and that while you may not agree with me, that you can at least understand and respect my opinion.

ImperialDane

02-04-2011, 06:31 AM

Thunion

02-04-2011, 09:54 AM

Well what i hate about at least half of the strategy games is that in the end almost always my army consists of guys who "Training half of life" "Only one of one of hundred given gift from gods" "Elite of elites having been hardened in battle for decades" etc..From descriptions it seems like In h5 heaven lost apperacition from heavens:No more radiant glories ,sun horses, seraphs,just a local human army with few belivers(Monks) and some angel desertirs who joined humans...And it was good i mean proud monks displaced by Nurses.So no more good shoters for heaven,Second Those Radiance glories looks plain stupid..They remind me a someone fiting spider-man anime like sun super hero BUT FOR THE GODS(Elraths) SAKE not medieval wariors...Ok next sun horses:A knights who earned theyr name as capitains ride on ride on armored not shining NORMAL horses while every single knight in the whole army riding on sun horses someone understands it?!My idea:Sun horses to heroes simple horses to knights..NEXT Seraphs:Lets see golden guys with long golden hair with dual wielding...Can someone tell me what happened to Angels From H3? I mean they werent golden they just wore simple cloth..And it was amazing,it really shows some power and when everyone in armor and one guy in battlefield just wears a single white cloth and later you learn that this guy is acctualy the strongest there it looks so angelic..But guy in golden armor just look like someone who wants to show his wealth so much,instead of angel simplness Angels are pure and golden armor doesnt demonstrate purity..Ok NEXT we got 3 guys left and the only one i think are quite good its griffins,really those guys look like they should look.But sentinel and Xbowman...TO DAMN SHINY..I meant they are base of army,regular wariors with lowest ranks..ANd suddenly they are all shining in golden(Which in theory protects less then iron) Name at least one general who would pay for a gold to make every single warior armor look better...
So to end this i totaly agree with you dane those guys looks like army for a show not for a fight,and for sure not medieval those guys remind me anime to much.And it gives me one question:Griffin duchy got shining guys while grifin empire after 400years dont have shining guys,what happened? Crysis? Bane of heavens? They killed one of elrath kids?

wdcryer

02-04-2011, 10:19 AM

There are a few units I am iffy about, but overall I really like all of the factions. I tend not to play Haven just because humans are boring, but I think they look great, so I will give them a shot.

Dark-Whisperer

02-04-2011, 10:45 AM

I have to agree. It is army for show, not for fight. They don't look dangerous, they look oh so pretty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Horses of light for every single (upgraded) knight but not for hero? And what happened to them so they are not used 400 years later in Heroes V?
And about 2 fragile ladies sent into battle... I have to mention one of ugliest game models in any game - radiant glory, her hair is just disgusting. And praying lady on battlefield. I don't want to imagine what would happen to her on actual medieval battlefield. I really don't see their place in any faction.

Agmask

02-04-2011, 12:30 PM

Okay, so if Elrath is supposed to be the good God seeing how he has angels and other creatures of light, I feel that the radiant glory (original and upgrade) are far to sexual in nature due to the lack of clothing and placement of colors. You don't have to have a sexual creature with each faction, and it would be great if the focus was moved back to their purity, come on, the picture does everything but say purity.

dchalfont

02-04-2011, 04:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wdcryer:
There are a few units I am iffy about, but overall I really like all of the factions. I tend not to play Haven just because humans are boring, but I think they look great, so I will give them a shot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree.

/

@O.P

Go to the new heroes site and view the skill descriptions for the pratorian, it has several abilities that make use of it's shield.

It seems like it could be the most resilient core unit of all.

The unit diversity this time around is also much better in haven.

The Sun Rider has an ability that allows it to charge and pass through objects ( presumably also castle walls ) which will make it awesome for sieges.

I think haven looks bad ***, as does every new faction.

I know some people have a hard time dealing with change, but you'll get over it.

EDIT:

I feel this needs to be said also

IT'S A F-ING FANTASY GAME, it's not real life, it is supposed to be epic.

Would you prefer Heroes of Duty with real life weapon's down to the model number and historically accurate armour types :S

You are on a game forum, ranting about how unrealistic a fantasy faction in a fantasy game is, a faction which has angels on the battlefield.

ImperialDane

02-04-2011, 04:33 PM

None of the things you actually said apply to anything of what i said.

I do not complain about a lack of realism nor do i rant. So i would kindly suggest you re-read my post or go somewhere else since you're not really doing anything constructive by doing this.

Destruction3402

02-04-2011, 06:01 PM

The troops could've been a little more simplistic, but it's not that big of a deal for me.
I can live with this game not being 100% historically accurate and making 100% practical sense.
The griffin, the sister and the sun knight is my favourite haven units.
It is a great step ahead over heroes V.

The only thing I'm not completely happy with is that juggernauts, tormentors and maniacs looks too similar, but I can deal with that because I'm generally not playing inferno that much.

Infiltrator-SF

02-04-2011, 06:09 PM

I have to agree with the OP. While I never bothered playing with Castle/Haven (humans are too boring for me), they seem too much over the top this time around.

This isn't supposed to be a realistic game, sure, but loads of people (on celestialheavens, for example) have pointed out the same thing. It feels like the units are there to be put on display rather than to go to battle.

KingImp

02-04-2011, 09:10 PM

I've always been one who liked Haven and didn't consider them boring. I also don't hate this version, but I will say that if there is only one shooter in this faction (the Crossbowman), then I will be very upset. Heroes 3 & 5 had two shooters and Heroes 4 had three shooters for this faction, so if they drop to just one then it will be a step backwards.

GamerGeek87

02-04-2011, 11:43 PM

I have to agree to some extent. The seraph/sun rider/griffon looks good to me, the sister also looks ok(although somewhat out of place). The sentinel/crossbowman/glory looks horrible imo. But Im not much of a haven player anyway and the other factions look really good.

Thunion

02-05-2011, 12:34 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IT'S A F-ING FANTASY GAME, it's not real life, it is supposed to be epic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I count there are 3 settings realism fantasy and anime..New heaven seems more anime then fantasy to me and as you sayed its F-ING FANTASY GAME..
However sisters looks good if in game theyr role will be executed right(NO dmg,very nice healing and lets say some creatures refusing to attack them "A well-known Elven ballad recounts a battle with Vestals, claiming that each blow they delivered felt like being slapped on the face by your mother.") however removig monks is a great mystake.The changes i would love to see is to chage glories to monks give unupgraded knights normal horses and upgraded sun horses.Also give heroes Sun horses.And remove all those accesories(like that damn golden eagle on helmet of marksman..) a bit less shiny and must admit even if its golden Praetorian looks amazing,but please give sentinel normal iron armor not silver..(Same about crossbowman IRON not silver..)

And not count me as hater of anime http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif i like anime alots but anime and fantasy is 2 diffrent things and i prefer see them seperately.

znork

02-05-2011, 02:21 AM

Im a necro man myself. Hevens have alwyas been the my least favorit faction. I find in genreal the size of their wepons are oversized and look imprectical. Yes this this a fantasy game but it dosnet have to look redicuoless. I mean flying units are enoughe fantasy for mehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The heven unit are to shiny and bright but they are obsesiv polishers. Who ware very strong becuse they have to walk around withe all that armor and huge wepons.

Kartabon

02-05-2011, 02:35 AM

I understand your dissapointment with the new Haven faction look Imperial, as for me, I'm a Haven fan too (it's my favourite faction). However, I do not find it essentially ridiculous or excesive-charged in terms of armor or decoration. It's true that those wings in the helmet or the excesive bright/decoration can be a bit... well, useless, because those things are going to be broken in the first battle they go :P The point is trying to see it from a fantasy point.

As far as you believe that those armours are made by X material which you don't know and/or enchanted in any way, you can see it from a better perspective: An army with incredible armors and nice good-looking :P God, I would like to be the commander of such army, as far as the units are well trained and know what to do while in combat.

I can't say I don't like the new look. It's jsut... a bit overcharged in decoration. It's still fixable, although I don't dislike it to the level you do.

Nightmus

02-05-2011, 07:37 AM

As in vanilla H6 there's no factions I always play as, I've no choice but to hope that Haven will be great despite the "defend and heal" tactic. I used to frequently choose them back in H3, but never in H5.

As of yet I like H6 Haven. Yes, their armor is designed for a parade, but I've no grudge against it. It may even be explained by Haven having not many warriors at their side due to battling the demons. It's already established that the Haven kingdom would have already ceased to exist if not for Celestials' ability to resurrect. Thus, the empire has many resources, but not too much men and women, so they use their finest cloth and metal to craft armor and weapons. They value human lives higher than gold. This armor may not provide better defences but it may raise the morale of troops. Or the shiny gold texture protects the wearer by the power of Elrath by reflecting sun rays. Or whatever. I like the Haven inspiring looks.

Then there are Sisters/Vestals. Come on, people! It's f-n fantasy! There's magic all over the place. Why won't you complain about mages who only wear cloth into battle and have a magic wand for a weapon? It's just how it is - there are warriors and there are magic-users. So what if Vestal doesn't wear armor? She's protected by other troops, she protects herself with magic of light, she HEALS and resurrects people! She retaliates with light magic, is it worse than Mage's little dagger from H5?

H6 brings some fresh ideas like having dedicated healers on battlefield. Every creature seems to have it's own special abilities. It really differentiates factions and allows even more diverse gameplay. It's awesome!

PS I agree that Glories are too sexy for the faction and their hair is just... needs to be redone.

kodial79

02-05-2011, 08:22 AM

I really like the designs of Haven. That they are ornate, I think it fits them. The appearance must match this of a heavenly army, truly favored by the Gods. Or at least, that's the impression that Haven wants to give to its enemies. Besides that would also boost the morale of their soldiers, giving them that feeling of grandeur. It could also be seen from the perspective of their lords who in vanity wish to show off their wealth, even in such ways.

I don't worry about some of them looking impractical. Almost every other fantasy game has creatures and humans bearing equipment that's more or less impractical to use. But anyway, I don't think any of equipment is that much impractical so as to raise concerns and complains.

Some of them may not look so good, such as the Radiant Glory and her hair. That's because the models lack any lighting effects that they will have in game. I don't know why they were not added in the site, but it's very obvious that there not any lighting effects. For example, I'm sure that in game, the Glory's hair will be flowing with light just like in her artwork.

About as to why some units in H6 are not in H5, well, why should they be? It's not like every empire has strictly only seven different types of units but the game mechanics are such that we could only use seven certain units each time. For example, it's been said that Inferno has a thousand of different demons but in each game we only seven of them. Would it be logical to question why can't we use the rest 993 of them?

Such matters are really trivial and pointless though. The Line-Up's are changing all of the time in the series. The Griffins started off with the Warlocks in H1 and H2, then with the Knights in H3 and then with the Preserve in H4, and no explanation was offered as to why did they do that. The Orcs in H1 and H2 were pigfaced and they were with the Barbarians, then in H3 they became green and in H4 they became pigfaced again and left the Barbarians for the Asylum. Inferno had Gogs in its ranks in H3, when it merged with Necropolis in H4, the Gogs vannished, what happened to them? Also were were the Ice Devils and Venom Spawns before? And I could offer many more such examples. The bottom line is that you can't fault H6 Haven for not having an identical line-up to that of H5.

Thunion

02-05-2011, 10:51 AM

kodial79 i cant explain orc mutations but in homm4 there is a other planets which can explain everything else you mentioned.I dont say i dont like the diffrent units that much just it feels like after 400 years Elrath almost abandoned his people (With exceptions of monks) And i explained reasons in previous post.

Nightmus i like those Vestals to they fit Town perfectly the thing i dont like about them is that they replaces monks which is not good..

And btw Radiant Glory is the least homm fiting unit in the whole series..She is ok for Spider Man/fantastic 4 cartoon movies,but not for fantasy game.

Roseluxe

02-05-2011, 12:00 PM

I hate new Seraphs and Celestials... They just don't look like a good being... Those two swords make them too brutal and cloak makes them look like some kind of assasins or something. Plus, they are too long and look like a worm a little, aren't they. In my opinion they are too evil to be in one faction with praying ladies and honorable warriors -__- ( Especially after I've seen a 3D model of them)

dchalfont

02-05-2011, 01:38 PM

Well I love all the Haven units and I think for once the faction is visually appealing.

They used to have dull grey armour and that's it, previously there were too many humans in the mix.

The Sunrider is more supernatural than a regular horse and the Radiant Glory adds much needed colour and diversity to the faction.

I also think the armour looks good.

Can't wait to play the game.

These complaints are petty.

ImperialDane

02-05-2011, 02:23 PM

@Kartabon: So Fantasy just means suspending all sense of common sense and logic ?

And there isn't really anything giving any indication it is an actual army. That's also one of the things. It doesn't look like an army, much too shiny, too polished and too ornate. And what happened to the proposed x material in the time between HoMM V and VI ?

@Nightmus: They're humans, they breed like rabbits http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif And in HoMM V a lack of humans does not seem like an actual concern so i can't see why it should be a concern in what is apparently the golden age of the empire.

I'm glad you find it inspiring, i just find it dull, flat and really way too shiny.

As to the vestals. I never said i wanted mages, just something that actually makes sense, you know, not sending in maidens in pretty maidens but oh i don't know. Warrior priests ? Like in HoMM V ? You know, people trained to fight and heal perhaps ? And the mage's dagger was pretty cool considering the mage never actually touched it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

They had that as well in HoMM V, plus spellcaster units had spells to cast, not just an ability to use. So actually not much diverse gameplay in my opinion and still. Seems flat

@Kodial: A bit missing the point, i don't expect all units to make a re-appearance, i just can't seem to find any similarity at all besides the griffons and angels.. And i never liked the griffons, they're not human. Never mind that this haven has less humans.

Overall, we're not just talking, oh they look a bit shiny and impractical, i know all fantasy units more or less do that to look a bit interesting. But HoMM VI just takes it too far. I just cannot imagine this being an actual army, i can't imagine this surviving a battle let alone surviving hundreds of years to become the army of HoMM V.

I mean i'm not even sure what it is supposed to reflect about the empire.

Again, i'll admit this is personal opinion and all. But really, to me it just stands out as really dull. It's sort of the exact opposite of all the brown and grey that's been the apparent standard most games go for. And the exact opposite is about as unattractive as the grey and brown.

Or to try another approach. Go read the faction description on the site. It's described as a feudal empire with no real central authority. Yet it's able to so splendourously equip every unit ? Never mind that every duchy would somehow choose to equip every soldier like that.

Or the Sun riders, apparently one of many orders.. Yet we get the one that is awfully shiny and prety ? Not one of the more practical orders ? or just a general knight and then something to spring forth from there ?

kodial79

02-06-2011, 12:55 AM

As a matter of fact, they did not survive the battle. The Falcon Empire perished and the Griffin Empire was born. The Demons did as much as to reach even their capital and kill their Emperor, if you remember the story. After such events, a lot of things changed. One could say that this is why, the H5's Units are not so ornate because they still have not recovered completely from the end of the previous empire and the decline that followed. When the Demons have their way with you, you're bound to change, deteriorate if you somehow survive.

Thunion

02-06-2011, 07:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And i never liked the griffons, they're not human </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry griffons wont be removed,Its GRIFFIN Empire/Duchy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.
I Acctually done understand why you dont like Vestals..The only units they not failed in heaven(With exception of Griffon of course) I can clearly see they role in battle of beuteful healers however if Ubi will make them usable for battle...Then Yes,ubi failed with these ones to.
And btw <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Their resolve and beauty has been known to strike their enemies speechless </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I cant see it working with succubus,Pit Fiend Etc...

Xenofex_086

02-06-2011, 07:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kodial79:
As a matter of fact, they did not survive the battle. The Falcon Empire perished and the Griffin Empire was born. The Demons did as much as to reach even their capital and kill their Emperor, if you remember the story. After such events, a lot of things changed. One could say that this is why, the H5's Units are not so ornate because they still have not recovered completely from the end of the previous empire and the decline that followed. When the Demons have their way with you, you're bound to change, deteriorate if you somehow survive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So the Demons are responsible for the transformation of the Haven army from a bunch of mannequins to... well, something which at least somewhat resembles an army? The humans owe them eternal gratitude, I tell you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SandroTheMaster

02-06-2011, 01:45 PM

To tell the truth, Haven has always been one of my least favorite factions as well. Keep that in mind from now on.

I see this new Haven as more of Greek-inspired than medieval inspired. Still, it is a mash-up in the end. A mash-up of Greek, Roman and Medieval philosophies and designs.

The praetorians, for instance, are well-equipped professional soldiers much alike the Greek Hoplites, who were known to wear very ornate armor (though painted ornate, not sculptured ornate). The Greek aesthetics, as far as can be captured from the Iliad, also gave much value to precious metals and would coat their armor in silver or gold to show off their wealth.

The Priestesses are like a mash-up of the Roman vestal virgins with the Catholic crusading shepherds, who did not wear armor or wield weapons and only purpose was give religious guidance and boost morale through piety.

I agree that the heroes probably should ALSO ride on the sunsteeds of the sunriders, but otherwise I'm alright with them. It was said that the Griffin Empire was the result of a long decline of this Haven from 400 years ago and I was wondering how they'd convey that those were somehow religiously superior, they came through in that regard. The glories, on the other hand, are this concept overdone.

The griffins are cool. Always been, always will be.

I don't like the crossbowmen, though. It clashes with the idea of a professional army. Crossbows are a sign of an industrialized, under-trained force. They were easy to made, easy to train to, but a good crossbowman didn't compare to a good bowman with a good bow. The crossbow is powerful though (overwhelmingly so actually)... and the crossbow design they use is intricate and large. I guess in a world where multiplying your strength into a single bolt isn't overkill because it might not be enough to pierce a dragon's skin, it might work. Sure, I also doubt they gave that much thought into it until they show original sketches stating something along those lines.

The eagle on the helmet is silly though. I completely agree with that.

Thunion

02-06-2011, 11:16 PM

About crossbowman.Elves got bowman so i guess they want more unquity.(And i can bet there will be elves in expansion) but one more thing..EMPIRE after 400 years got bowman and xbowman..while duchy dont have bowmans wtf?

mcgslo

02-07-2011, 06:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KingImp:
I've always been one who liked Haven and didn't consider them boring. I also don't hate this version, but I will say that if there is only one shooter in this faction (the Crossbowman), then I will be very upset. Heroes 3 & 5 had two shooters and Heroes 4 had three shooters for this faction, so if they drop to just one then it will be a step backwards. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am shure at least sister won't be melee fighters lol? Or she will go around slaping soldiers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Radient Glory could also be shooter...

Well radiant glory looks like dr.manhattan in female form http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Haven shurely dont feel like fevdal army since half of them are female soldiers (angels,sisters,radiants)

I also dont care about history and if its 100%accurate and overall i like the faction... i think haven faction like this:
They got some help from gods... (well heaven) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and i guess shining things are there and gold armor... not shure never been there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I would only change minor things... perhaps:
-Sentinel: please use normal spear at least spear that looks like spear
-Crossbowman: cut off that bird and there you go.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
-Griffin... no complaints
-sister: who would want to kill her? maybe demons, orcs and necromancers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Agree not really battle creature... i guess thats where heal/ressurection come in place
-radiant glory: hmm welll i don't know it looks like piexie to me... sexy pixies may i add http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I guess they dont reall fit the haven lineup... but we will see.
-sun raiders: i think they are good and i like shiny horses http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
-seraph: i have argument why its not male but i think it looks good. I guess that why seraph has armor or if he/she would wore only cloth we will see some boobs wich are no good for an angel right (yea not that kind of angel) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And i had argument agains swords that dont look like swords like on concept art... but animation/ingame modell is much better

m 2 cents
~McG

Pitsu

02-07-2011, 06:53 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mcgslo:
i think heaven like this:
They got some help from gods... (well heaven) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The town is haven not heaven.(I know the words look similar.)

I personally liked the H2 verison the most. With pretty much only melee walkers, their gameplay was kind of different challenge than other towns. Something like fortress in H3.

mcgslo

02-07-2011, 06:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pitsu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mcgslo:
i think heaven like this:
They got some help from gods... (well heaven) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The town is haven not heaven.(I know the words look similar.)

I personally liked the H2 verison the most. With pretty much only melee walkers, their gameplay was kind of different challenge than other towns. Something like fortress in H3. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry i never noticed... english is secondary language... i will try t correct mistake...

SandroTheMaster

02-07-2011, 03:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mcgslo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pitsu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mcgslo:
i think heaven like this:
They got some help from gods... (well heaven) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The town is haven not heaven.(I know the words look similar.)

I personally liked the H2 verison the most. With pretty much only melee walkers, their gameplay was kind of different challenge than other towns. Something like fortress in H3. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry i never noticed... english is secondary language... i will try t correct mistake... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Russian I take it? Just a linguistic observation.

@ Pitsu:

I think the Knights in Heroes 2 were very limited and at a huge disadvantage on sieges, for instance. They were just massacred by the Wizards and their overwhelming ranged supremacy. Even if a hole was made the golems could hold it very well. Also, their units were somewhat similar. The pikemen, Swordsmen and Cruzaders were practically the same unit.

Pitsu

02-07-2011, 10:49 PM

As i said i liked them not because of being cool or well balanced with other factions, but because they gave an experience that other factions did not. I am well aware that ballistics was a must have for such army in sieges. But give the units good specials and you have a faction with unique gameplay without the need to invent race-special skills for hero.

mcgslo

02-09-2011, 12:53 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SandroTheMaster:
Russian I take it? Just a linguistic observation.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not russia http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Slovenia - EU

I guess it is slavic language wich have some similarity with russian but it is completly different.

ImperialDane

02-09-2011, 07:54 AM

@kodial: Actually that's not quite how it worked, the empire itself did not perish, the emperor did and a new dynasty appeared and took the name after the duchy of the emperor.

@Thunion: I just don't like the vestals, they don't really seem to have a place on the battlefield at all. And again as i stated in my original post, i'm more towards the warrior priest types like the Inquisitor from HoMM V or the zealot for that matter.

@Sandro: Could you point to any of the greek influence because not really seeing it, plus the praetorians take their name from the Roman elite guard meant to protect the emperor and i am pretty sure would also have worn some sort of ornate armour, but certainly not to this degree never mind that these praetorians are made out to be some sort of elite infantry .Never mind that when you look at it, Haven is lacking a lot of infantry, only got the sentinels and praetorians.. and that's it. Rest is archers, beasts and other non-humans, girls in pretty dresses and some silly looking cavalry types http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

SandroTheMaster

02-10-2011, 04:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImperialDane:

@Sandro: Could you point to any of the greek influence because not really seeing it, plus the praetorians take their name from the Roman elite guard meant to protect the emperor and i am pretty sure would also have worn some sort of ornate armour, but certainly not to this degree never mind that these praetorians are made out to be some sort of elite infantry .Never mind that when you look at it, Haven is lacking a lot of infantry, only got the sentinels and praetorians.. and that's it. Rest is archers, beasts and other non-humans, girls in pretty dresses and some silly looking cavalry types http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They take their name from the praetorians, but functionally and story-wise they have little to do with them. Also, according to the description it doesn't say anything about them supposedly being an elite infantry. They're the "first line of defense" and "volunteers". They just seem well equipped and well trained. The Praetorian Guard were a dedicated force of bodyguards for the Praetor and are more akin to civil duties than military ones. The praetorians in the game is much more akin to the Hoplites, who'd wear the most intricate armor they could and try to show off their colors. And all this idea of Duchy seems to show the Falcon Empire wasn't unified like the Griffin Empire, suggesting more a decentralized government... but I don't know if they are city states, I guess I just assumed it.

@ mcgslo:

The languages can be extremely different, but I bet the grammar is similar. Once you take linguistic studies you sort of start picking up on this kind of stuff. I can usually pick up Latin-based language speakers from their writing as well. It works the other way around, I can pick up Anglo-speakers from their writing in French/Spanish/Portuguese (not Italian because I don't speak Italian...).

SwampLord450

02-10-2011, 10:18 AM

HVI Haven's lineup looks much better to me than the Warcraftian vibe of the Heroes V Haven creatures.

ImperialDane

02-13-2011, 02:05 AM

@Sandro: How do you know that functionally and story wise they have little to do with them ? Secondly if you check one of the ability descriptions you will see that they are noted as being an Elite.

Secondly, hoplites wouldn't be that richly or impractically equipped. I mean look at the spear, i'm not a weaponsmith granted but that looks like it will get stuck in the ground after the first jab.

As to the decentralisation, it seems a common theme throughout the empires including the griffin empire and i mentioned this earlier i believe but gives the whole empire a connotiation of being similar to the holy roman empire where you had an emperor with some authority but most would be within the rulers of the different duchies, baronies and so on.

That is, a pretty feudal setup. Which does not really fit in with neither the roman empire feel or any potential greek either.

And within that feudal setting, having an elite infantry force like the praetorians does not make too much sense either.

Shawn85

03-26-2011, 10:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImperialDane:
Well the HoMM VI site was updates with more units, so i thought i'd peek in and have a look at the units of my favorite faction from HoMM V, Haven. And as i looked and read about the new units, i couldn't help but notice i wasn't feeling ecstatic, excited or even remotely interested, i was getting a feeling of detachment and slight dissapointment.

I know that the purpose of the faction was not solely to please me, but i can't help but get the impression that this haven is rather different from the old and well, all other havens in a quite noticable way, and in my opinion, not a good one.

To those saying: "well i quite like the new haven" Good for you ! and i am happy for you. I wish i could share your enthusiasm, but ultimately i end up feeling like i did with Diablo III when all was revealed :
Like none of it spoke to me, like the range of characters present were meant to appeal to a completely different audience, in the case of Diablo III, apparently the lone rogue wolf sort of types. And while i could look at it and say, well that's interesting, it just didn't have an appeal to me, we don't all need to be the lone rogue who doesn't follow the book or any book, or some noble savage. How about some more civilized characters ? Some who can actually work together with others and who's flaws don't involve being dark and brooding.

And for HoMM VI ? What are the sort of things that bother me ? Well, it's just too shiny, too ornate, too impractical and just seems insensible on so many levels.

I mean what soldiers there are seems curiously ornate and shiny, generally giving me the impression of being toy soldiers rather than forces of some Feudal empire, never mind that the attempt of giving some sort of Roman empire feel to it fall short, also because of the high shiny-ness and silly ornateness.

look at the Praetorian and the helm which to me seems awfully fragile and just offers an opponent a good chance of ripping it off, the spear which seems unwieldy or how about the cape ? I mean a cape for infantry ?

or how about the marksmen with the nice eagle on their healmet, which seems like it would easily break off in a breeze.

What of the sister ? Why on earth would you send someone like that into battle ? Where are the battlepriests of HoMM V ? Or any sort of sensible general who deems it necessary to have religious troops on the field.

And again, i know, this is just my opinion, but i'd like to get it out since this feels important to me.

It was a hard blow losing Disciples III of which i had been a great fan for a long time, until their visual designs appeared which were erratic, nonsensical half the time and even more impractical half the time.

And i won't devolve this into Disciples III as i did tell myself back then i wouldn't focus too much on it, but when i see this.. I feel a bit necessary, but to finish this little bit all i have to say is Disciples III broke my heart and while Heroes of Might and Magic VI isn't doing that, it is leaving me a bit sad.

I mean i like some of all the things, i like having another fantasy turn based strategy game in the world of Ashan. But i can't help but feel this is a wrong turn for the haven.

I mean i'm not sure what to say of it now, is it a sort of pseudo-roman empire ? A feudal empire ? Are they worshipping a god of good or just the sun ? And i can't help but feel that this sudden sun aspect being thrown into it mighth have played into the whole shiny aspect of the faction. But again, it just does not appeal to me.

Where is the Feudal medieval empire in this ? Where is the actual army rather than just the private guards of apparently a not awfully practical emperor. There are just so many things that i can't get to make sense or can find reasonable.

I mean i'd love to be able to find the haven fun, but i can't. And the other 4 factions at the moment just don't do it either, i don't care for orcs, daemons or vampires and corpses.

I like medieval troops, swordsmen, knights in armour, fanatical crusaders, zealous warrior priests. Perhaps i am just part of a dying target audience. For which i can't do much and can't expect Ubisoft to go "well hold up, Imperial Dane is sad, we'd best redesign the entire haven faction !"

But i do feel like voicing my concerns with this and pointing out that at least to me. This seems out of place and not really like a haven faction. It just feels like, well something incredibly ornate, yet soulless. Like a hollywood movie gone bad. And i certainly can't see this become the haven of HoMM V at all. I mean this would just crumble and humanity left to rot since this is not something that can fight anything.

At least in my opinion.

So i think i've said all i can about this. And generally, well i just feel left out and not really able to participate, i hope HoMM VI does well, and i hope that some expansion might bring me something i can enjoy. But for now, i'll have to pass.

So to the rest of you, i hope you'll have fun with them and the other factions. And i hope that some of this makes sense and that while you may not agree with me, that you can at least understand and respect my opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent post! I agree with almost every point. But I am coming from a different angle, I hate haven. I've always hated haven, if they bring back that "griffin eternal" nonsense I won't even bother playing their campaign. There shiny, ornate looking generic wimps. If you've played any eurocentric fantasy game uve played as haven ans probably against inferno. In homm5 my only use for haven and inferno was nuking them from my elephant. Now when I heard homm6 was coming out I saw a membeer of there new lineup was 'praetorian" I got so excited, I was like omg maybe there dropping the stupid shiny medieval look and adopting an ancient roman aesthetic. I got excited for nothing, the praetorian is one of the dumbest looking units of all. For my purposes I will enjoy nuking haven even more in homm6.

H5forem

03-26-2011, 01:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mcgslo:
-radiant glory: hmm welll i don't know it looks like piexie to me... sexy pixies may i add http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I guess they dont reall fit the haven lineup... but we will see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I also think they are "from another movie"

They look like a decent unit, but they don't fit haven... at least visualy..

Thunion

03-26-2011, 01:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They look like a decent unit, but they don't fit haven... at least visualy.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They may look like a decent unit.. But in my opinion they not just dont fit haven,they dont fit HoMM

Asterisk

03-26-2011, 11:13 PM

I have a problem with mutation. I don't see mutation belonging to medieval fantasy genre.

And vampire poisoned blood idea sounds more like year 2050 Underworld shiz.

dchalfont

03-26-2011, 11:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Asterisk:
I have a problem with mutation. I don't see mutation belonging to medieval fantasy genre.

And vampire poisoned blood idea sounds more like year 2050 Underworld shiz. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can I ask why a vampire with poisonous blood is less realistic than angels fighting on a battlefield along side humans?????

It seems to me that people are picking and choosing their fantasy realisms.

It's a fantasy game; that gives license to many different ideas. I like that the Necromancers now have an ideology and symbol ( the spider symbol and their goddess....who's name I can't remember ) rather than just "they're the dead guys; who are bad, and you're the living guys ( humans ); who are good"

As long as each unit has some link to the rest of the faction in design or lore then I don't see a problem with it.

Nalafein

03-27-2011, 02:43 AM

Atleast you get to play your faction. I have to wait for an expansion pack.. so the game wont be fully enjoyed as i wish it could.

/sadpanda.

dchalfont

03-27-2011, 03:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nalafein:
Atleast you get to play your faction. I have to wait for an expansion pack.. so the game wont be fully enjoyed as i wish it could.

/sadpanda. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have some complimentary "Best and most needed gameplay changes from one heroes iteration to the next"

and I'll even throw in some "best yet graphics in any heroes series", and additional "best and most cohesive faction lineup for factions that are in the game"

It's a good price too....just standard RRP.

My fav faction is Academt btw, so no they're not in the game, but necro comes second and the game looks good. We'll live. We know they always save the best for last ( second expansion= academy + tears of joy?)

Metamagician

03-27-2011, 06:33 AM

Haven definitely has too many female units for my liking.

You can always count on female units and characters to ruin many aspects of the game.

It is really sad to see it reduced to such cheap vulgar pandering .

Nalafein

03-27-2011, 06:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchalfont:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nalafein:
Atleast you get to play your faction. I have to wait for an expansion pack.. so the game wont be fully enjoyed as i wish it could.

/sadpanda. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have some complimentary "Best and most needed gameplay changes from one heroes iteration to the next"

and I'll even throw in some "best yet graphics in any heroes series", and additional "best and most cohesive faction lineup for factions that are in the game"

It's a good price too....just standard RRP.

My fav faction is Academt btw, so no they're not in the game, but necro comes second and the game looks good. We'll live. We know they always save the best for last ( second expansion= academy + tears of joy?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont get me wrong, The game looks atleast nice, and i bet it would feel nice. But it won't be the same joy as i would feel if i could play one of my top three factions in the game franchise... but neither of them is included http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

/sader panda.

Thunion

03-27-2011, 07:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Haven definitely has too many female units for my liking.

You can always count on female units and characters to ruin many aspects of the game.

It is really sad to see it reduced to such cheap vulgar pandering . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dont think famale characters ruining the game.. however to mutch famale units its true.Heaven have 3 of them womans should stay at home in times of war!(No offense all famale ones but this is medival fantasy in medieval most of the time womens were stayng at home :P)

Nalafein

03-27-2011, 08:00 AM

Metamagician

03-27-2011, 11:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nalafein:
More boobs is always okay http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not OK, it is in fact opposite of OK.

How old are you?

Thunion

03-27-2011, 12:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">More boobs is always okay </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe just meybe it fits rpgs,however strategy games are not about individual characters(well less then rpgs are anyway) so Boobs lose theyr importance :P

dchalfont

03-27-2011, 05:15 PM

lol @ insecure guys who still live at home with their parents and think that women are eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.

Mather Namtura= epic
Lamasu= epic
Radiant Glory= Epic
Angels= epic
Ghosts= epic
Harpy= epic
Coral Maiden= epic
River Spirit= epic

The only female unit that sucks is the 'Sister' and that's not because she's female, it's because it is generic and boring.

QQ little dudes. One day you'll have a gf and know that it's all ok.

Shawn85

03-27-2011, 07:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchalfont:
lol @ insecure guys who still live at home with their parents and think that women are eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.

Mather Namtura= epic
Lamasu= epic
Radiant Glory= Epic
Angels= epic
Ghosts= epic
Harpy= epic
Coral Maiden= epic
River Spirit= epic

The only female unit that sucks is the 'Sister' and that's not because she's female, it's because it is generic and boring.

QQ little dudes. One day you'll have a gf and know that it's all ok. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sad attempt to pawn your insecurities on others. While female units are neccessary an over abundance turns the faction or even the entire game corny. Girl power! Lol, go watch sucker punch if you want a direct and relevant reference.

Shawn85

03-27-2011, 08:29 PM

Throw away fate spinners and bring back death knights, throw away seraphs and bring back angels. Everything else is great.

dchalfont

03-27-2011, 09:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
*irrational rant </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Being comfortable in the presence of things different to myself makes me secure, feeling threatened by it makes you insecure, you have it backwards brua.

You know what happens to guys who believe the "bro's before ho's" B.S......they end up looking pathetic at all their friends weddings because their friends grew up, and immature ******bags who are afraid of women do not.

Have fun being afraid of females....in a game, lol

Sooo sad.

Metamagician

03-27-2011, 10:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
Sad attempt to pawn your insecurities on others. While female units are neccessary an over abundance turns the faction or even the entire game corny. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Precisely, it denigrates the whole game and reduces it to vulgar misguided pandering.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchalfont:

You know what happens to guys who believe the "bro's before ho's" B.S..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are being completely incoherent like...you know...you are not very bright.

Shawn85

03-27-2011, 11:39 PM

dchalfont

03-28-2011, 12:35 AM

Watch out for those females, they're everywhere these days.

Maybe you two could take this circle jerk somewhere private and sort out your pent up frustrations together. lol

Metamagician

03-28-2011, 12:40 AM

Remember King's Bounty: The Legend?

Everything done right:
Human race-archmages, bowmen, knights, swordsman, guardsmen, horsemen, priests, inquisitors...not a female unit in sight!

It felt and played like a proper army, imagine how stupid and corny it would have felt if it had 3 female units or even 1 for that matter. That's how Haven now feels...

The only contextually appropriate female unit and only one in KB was in Demon faction-succubus, mind you half naked with a whip, and a few neutral creatures....

Learn from the best.

dchalfont

03-28-2011, 12:48 AM

You know what's funny? the female units that are in the game now; will be in the game at release too, so you're just going to have to deal with it.

I believe the last world census estimated that there were more females on the planet than males too; so you're going to have to get over that as well.

So much QQ over such an insignificant thing.

'contextually appropriate'

lolololol

Hit shawn85 up for his number, I'm sure he'll show you the night of your life.

H5forem

03-28-2011, 01:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Metamagician:
Remember King's Bounty: The Legend?

Everything done right:
Human race-archmages, bowmen, knights, swordsman, guardsmen, horsemen, priests, inquisitors...not a female unit in sight!

It felt and played like a proper army, imagine how stupid and corny it would have felt if it had 3 female units or even 1 for that matter. That's how Haven now feels...

The only contextually appropriate female unit and only one in KB was in Demon faction-succubus, mind you half naked with a whip, and a few neutral creatures....

Learn from the best. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, and in KB - Armored Princess they where all lead by a "virgin warrior". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Back to H6... I have a problem with Radiant Glory, it just not fit Haven. With female face or male face, it would be the same. Look like a creature that would look great in Academy. In Haven no.

On a personal note, I'm also sad because they ocupy the place of my favorite H3 (knight) unit, Swordsman-Crusader.

Is just so sad not having a sword fighting unit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Thunion

03-28-2011, 04:25 AM

hey dchalfont there are not just Being afraid of famales and accepting famales.When you have a gf you meet those boobs in every day,however some ppl seem not to have enought boobs in real life,so they want boobs EVERYWHERE.I never played games becouse of boobs and never will,if you want boobs that much just type in google pictures somthing like big fantasy boobs and you can sit there for days.I really starting to hate games where Amount of "sexuality" is valued more then game lore and immersion.I dont say Heroes are such game(Thank godness).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Is just so sad not having a sword fighting unit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm yeah its pretty sad counting that most of the heroes will be with swords..Meybe swords were rarity 400 years ago?Btw we got seraph with 2 swords :P

Shawn85

03-28-2011, 10:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchalfont:
Watch out for those females, they're everywhere these days.

Maybe you two could take this circle jerk somewhere private and sort out your pent up frustrations together. lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

U make me lol, time to shut u up. If I posted a pic of me and my gf ud want to kill urself. Also news flash, u don't know anybody on this forum and its obvious ur pandering ur insecurities in public, and talking about how ppl will never marry is just awkward. Stating that big boobed pretty ladies subtract from the feel of a war hardened proffesional army is common sense, I doubt u don't understand that. Ur just childish, not that bright, and like I said before 'insecure and angry'. I bet you live in ur moms basement, I bet ur overweight and I doubt u do well with the ladies. If I was u I'd just shut up since u seem incapable of engaging in objective and mature discussion amongst homm fans.

Shawn85

03-28-2011, 10:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H5forem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Metamagician:
Remember King's Bounty: The Legend?

Everything done right:
Human race-archmages, bowmen, knights, swordsman, guardsmen, horsemen, priests, inquisitors...not a female unit in sight!

It felt and played like a proper army, imagine how stupid and corny it would have felt if it had 3 female units or even 1 for that matter. That's how Haven now feels...

The only contextually appropriate female unit and only one in KB was in Demon faction-succubus, mind you half naked with a whip, and a few neutral creatures....

Learn from the best. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, and in KB - Armored Princess they where all lead by a "virgin warrior". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Back to H6... I have a problem with Radiant Glory, it just not fit Haven. With female face or male face, it would be the same. Look like a creature that would look great in Academy. In Haven no.

On a personal note, I'm also sad because they ocupy the place of my favorite H3 (knight) unit, Swordsman-Crusader.

Is just so sad not having a sword fighting unit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, its absurd they replaced the basic swordsman.

Shawn85

03-28-2011, 10:36 AM

I'm gonna have to disagree with some of you guys, i looovvee the radiant glory. I think its probably the 1 of the coolest units in haven right now. But of course I'm a huge academy fan and i see where most of you guys are coming from, it would probably be more at home with the wizards.

WaterPoloLaw

03-28-2011, 12:57 PM

I am going to have to seriously disagree as well. In my opinion, haven appears to be the faction that has changed the LEAST. Moreover, what little changes were made were, well, awesome.

Here are the only real changes I can see:

1. Peasant (Out) swaped for Sister (In): The peasant had to be the lamest creature of any of the factions from prior installments. If memory serves me, they originated with the first King's Bounty from Sega Genesis. If a nation is going to war, they don't just go pick up a bunch of fat farmers, but buckets on their head, arm them with pitforks and say, "Have at it."

The sister on the other hand has to be one of my favorite new units. This is a unit that is based almost entirely on support and healing, but has very little attack and defense of any form...I like it a lot. Certainly I like the sister much better that any dirty peasant.

2. Priest (Out) v. Radiant Glory (In): I am also a big fan of this change. While I liked the priest, I could see two things: (1) that having both the priest and the sister would be exceptionally redundant and (2) the priest really never cut it as the haven's primary spell caster. I mean we have shadow witches, and liches and wizard againt...a balding monk? The priest always felt like it should have been a much lower tier unit.

The radiant glory on the other hand is exceptional. Much more what I would expect from an elite tier caster. My only concern is that she is...well, naked. Don't really understand why that was necessary but, I am impressed with the overall choice over the priest.

3. Sunrider gets a new horse. You know you were all thinking about this. Yes, the regular champions when compared to all other tier six units just seemed really out of place. I mean we have pitlords and wights and giant death spirits against...a man on a horse with a stick?

At least with the magical "sun horse," the situation makes more sense. Not to mention that it looks cool to boot. Could not be happier about the sun rider.

4. Pratorian: I don't really care that the cape would be cumbersome in battle. This is a fantasy video game after all. Personally I think they look great...much better than the boring swordsman.

5. Angel is now called a Seraph. I see no difference between a seraph and an angel other than the seraph looks cool and is female. Personally, i like that this game is adding more female units.

Just MHO.

Shawn85

03-28-2011, 01:53 PM

im happy with most everything. considering ive always hated haven. i prefer angels to seraphs, i prefer death knights and bone dragons to fate spinners. on the other hand i prefer sisters, sphinxs, radiant glories, and the new ghosts to previous models and creatures. point is too many pretty ladies on the battlefield makes the game corny, i call it 'xena-syndrome'. At this point its borderline, as long as we don't see a jenna jameson look a like weilding a great sword in some other faction everything should be ok. keep in mind this isn't about sexism, but over sexualization in a long running series that most would like to see kept some authentic and respectable.

Metamagician

03-28-2011, 11:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
but over sexualization in a long running series that most would like to see kept some authentic and respectable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that was what we were talking about and that's why I said "contextually appropriate".

You would have to devise some elaborate background story to have a matriarch army and it not being silly.
More than 1 female unit in Haven is too much female unit.

H5forem

03-29-2011, 03:36 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of you guys, i looovvee the radiant glory. I think its probably the 1 of the coolest units in haven right now. But of course I'm a huge academy fan and i see where most of you guys are coming from, it would probably be more at home with the wizards. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No one say is not cool... Yes is cool, more cool than Priest or Swordsman. The problem for me is that they just don't fit. Minotaurs (my favorite unit) are THE coolest unit in Heroes, but they would be out of place in Castle Town, just like glory is now.

alficon

03-29-2011, 04:42 AM

The most bothersome thing for me in the Haven line-up is the Radiant Glory. I can't explain that unit's background in my head. It makes little sense. Are they spirits of light sent by Elrath, lesser Seraphs, beings of light summoned by the Holy Church... What? (they are a bit...ummm...naked for beings of light summoned by the church)

IMO they should have let the priest/inquisitor stay. I don't agree they seem lesser tier units. In medieval times many monks/priests took up weapons and had a place on the battlefield. The model in HOMM5 reminded me of the classic D&D cleric, with heavy plate, light magic and a mace. I liked it. Radiant Glory, not so much...

Apart from that, the rest of the units make sense, and they look fantastic. I don't mind not being to realistical/practical, as long as it's visually appealing. That bird on the marksmen helmet could be a lot smaller, but hey, nothing's perfect.

Metamagician

03-29-2011, 04:53 AM

This might become hugely problematic for me since in every strategy/RPG I always go for the human/civilization/imperial.
Even in Dawn of War series I only go for Space Marines and Imperial Guard.

I suspect most people do too since such factions are the most recognizable and relatable.

Haven will have to be really good, much better realized than all the other factions.

Thunion

03-29-2011, 10:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If a nation is going to war, they don't just go pick up a bunch of fat farmers, but buckets on their head, arm them with pitforks and say, "Have at it." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What would you chose lose a war which means that demons control the world or pick up a few thousands of bunches of fat farmers, put buckets on their head, arm them with pitforks and win the war? I mean humans are always seen as most populeted race and you just hold a few thousands or few dozens of thousands of possible wariors? i mean yes they are weak,very weak but if to compare them to preatorians i think you can say safely that 1 preatorian=10 peasants.It means you are not using a few hundreds or thousands of preatorians..is that wise?
I mean only humans got such possobility to send peasants: Demons whole nation is fighting anyway,elves value theyr lives to much,and wont untrained peaople to the certain death,orcs all are wariors to as are nagas...
For what i hate the new haven,is that theyr army look so god blessed,proffesional and well financed counting that its just a damn duchy while army of whole empire after progress of 400 years is just a bounch of untrained godless merceneries with a few rebel angels compared to them..They are just tryng to be perfect in heroes 6,and i dont like perfectness in games(well with exception of game itself tryng to be "perfect" but not it continent.)

Xenofex_086

03-30-2011, 12:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If a nation is going to war, they don't just go pick up a bunch of fat farmers, but buckets on their head, arm them with pitforks and say, "Have at it." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, it makes so much more sense to have skinny nuns instead of fat peasants. As for the peasantry in war - check your history lessons - the medieval battlefields were full of peasants. Only that most likely they were not fat.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Yes, the regular champions when compared to all other tier six units just seemed really out of place. I mean we have pitlords and wights and giant death spirits against...a man on a horse with a stick? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Huh? Irradiating the horse makes the horseman more powerful? And the lance is not a stick, mind you.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I see no difference between a seraph and an angel other than the seraph looks cool and is female. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Previously the Seraph was the Angel's upgrade, now it is something which is presented as inferior to an Angel. Coherence, persistence and all that. By the way the Angels in Heroes V were females too.

As for the faction in general - it's laughable but I hardly give a damn about them, they've always been at the bottom of my list, except maybe in Heroes I and II.

Metamagician

03-30-2011, 01:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thunion:
They are just tryng to be perfect in heroes 6,and i dont like perfectness in games(well with exception of game itself tryng to be "perfect" but not it continent.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's an excellent observation.

Zymeth313

03-30-2011, 01:49 AM

But isn’t that the point? Reading from the description of this faction they seem to have been anticipating this whole invasion for quite some time now

They see it as a chance to demonstrate their superiority to all other factions for the first time in history, by brilliantly and courageously shining in the exciting battles about to come.

That won’t happen if you fight wars with peasants making up the bulk of your army, that just screams weak instead of I’m here to take charge of this place. From what I can tell the creators have nicely captured the image of a human, light worshiping kingdom that is overeager to prove its superiority to everyone.
<span class="flash-video"> </span>

Xenofex_086

03-30-2011, 04:57 AM

Yeah, in the dark Ashan which is supposed to surpass the previous universe in terms of "seriousness" the humans think how they should dress themselves before going to battle against the demons. Dress! To battle!!! Against the demons!!!!!! It seems completely natural indeed.

Thunion

03-30-2011, 05:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They see it as a chance to demonstrate their superiority to all other factions for the first time in history, by brilliantly and courageously shining in the exciting battles about to come. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well it doesnt seem to really know what a demon invasion is then... From your comment one may think that demon invasion is just small force of rebels,and you just need to send a small force to beat them..BUT NO Demons are worldwide threat and must be defeated at all costs,it isint about "Showing how shiny we are" it is about the saving the damn world no matter how old it sounds.

alficon

03-30-2011, 06:17 AM

Lack of peasants tells me the armies of Haven have reached a professional level akin to the late medieval armies, which rarely used untrained peasants for many reasons, including economical reasons and quality of such troops.

Also, I can't really see peasants fitting into the new core/elite/champion system. They definetly wouldn't feel on par with other core units. And since it's a fantasy game, shiny > dull. Dull unit design can be ok in M2TW, but i expect something different from Homm6.

Zymeth313

03-30-2011, 06:35 AM

*Xenofex_086

Just a few pages a go I read about everyone agreeing that greeks dressed in gold or silver just to impress their enemies, how is this so different. Any army during Medieval or previous periods always tried to look better then their enemy, showing off their wealth alongside martial prowess.

*Thunion

Bash that part all you want but that piece of text is straight from the description page so yeah, they are probably underestimating what’s awaiting. It’s the first time this is going to happen or at least at such a scale for these guys not to mention that they’re human, it’s almost natural to us. I mean how many wars haven’t been started with the great idea of swooping in, killing folk and taking the glory in a minimum of time only to turn into gruesome drawn-out affairs .

najmul88

03-30-2011, 07:31 AM

As far as haven designs are going, its pretty wicked still.

Yeah i kinda find it odd the army ranks compose 50/50 men and women, and a bird ^^

There is a nice variation of units, not just human dudes everwhere, didnt play castle haven much, and if i did, it would be only for the awesome angels http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif homm3 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I like that they are making each unit quite distinctive, and the priestesses as a support role is a prett aweosme idea, though come on give her a little battle armour or something lol.

Then we have the radiant glory, oh dear lord lol. This is a weak concept imo, really need to see how they animate and play out but.. first off they dont even seem to fit into the faction, they seem more sylvan o.O
secondly, come on that is some weak designing, a naked girl with the simplest body tattoos, where havent i seen something like that 999 times?

And the upgrade, a different shade of gimmick? come on, biig thumbs down on this one, even if it poledanced and had dead or alive animation on it i still wont be impressed.

I had a bit of a n issue with seraphs at first, but in game they actually seem pretty amazing. Cant wait to see more though!

Shawn85

03-30-2011, 09:18 AM

Actually greeks either dressed in bronze or leather. they were inferior skirmishers but invincible defensive fighters because of 'phalanx'. their bronze hoplon shields allowed them to turtle up. the entire Greek army consisted of heavy infantry called 'hoplites' (because of the shield) at one point. also until Alexander, Greece didn't really have too much wealth (comparatively speaking), it was a dysfunctional amalgamation of city state and Greece itself was rocky and poor, which is why mercenary work was so popular (the best way to make your fortune was adventuring). All Greece had was an abundance of marble and like one silver mine or something like that. also now i don't mind the new priestess units at all, i think there going to be great for magic support, functionally and design wise. Maybe give them a hood or make them elderly too make them more serious? The inquisitor had to go for good reason, check the haven magic hero design and you will see why. angels in homm5 were not woman, merely dudes that castrated themselves, akin to all post final fantasy 7 characters. In my opinion the coolest realization of warrior angel in any videogame was Tyriel from the diablo series. Tyriel i felt took heavy inspiration from the archaeminid persian immortal; be hooded and faceless, march in silence, destroy. Finally i think the radiant glory is awesome because its ethereal. Theres something really cool about summoning spirits to fight people you dont like, part of the reason im such a big fan of academies djinns and rkashas. I would also like the sunrider because of his horse but all haven armour makes them look like wimps so not so much.

WaterPoloLaw

03-30-2011, 12:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yes, it makes so much more sense to have skinny nuns instead of fat peasants. As for the peasantry in war - check your history lessons - the medieval battlefields were full of peasants. Only that most likely they were not fat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My point was that I think a fat peasant with a pitchfork is a really stupid idea for a creature any faction. They could have replaced the peasant with ANYTHING and I would have agreed it was a good thing to do.

After all, each faction only gets seven units. Really, while other factions get skeleton archers, gun toting gremlins, and assassins with poisonous throwing daggers, Haven gets...fat dirty farmers with pitforks?

Peasants had no place being in this game to begin with. To clarify what I was stating earlier, I can't see why everyone is so upset with the new Haven. In my book, it would appear getting rid of peasants for magical priestesses would be a good thing. But apparently not?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Huh? Irradiating the horse makes the horseman more powerful? And the lance is not a stick, mind you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And a sunsteed granted by Elrath does not appear to be merely an irradiated horse either. No, a short dude on a horse with a lance never seemed fitting as a tier 6 from previous installments. Academy gets giant, multibladed, lionheaded spirits of destruction and Haven gets a guy on a horse? The necromancers get the grim reaper himself, and Haven gets a guy on the horse? Yes, giving the knight a magical steed made of "pure light" seems to slightly even the playing field a little.

GoranXII

03-30-2011, 12:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
they were inferior skirmishers but invincible defensive fighters because of 'phalanx'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The phalanx was repeated in the middle-ages as the pike square, and gods it got some use, especially amongst the Swiss, and for a time (a few centuries), those guys were the toughest troops in Europe.

Shawn85

03-30-2011, 01:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoranXII:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
they were inferior skirmishers but invincible defensive fighters because of 'phalanx'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The phalanx was repeated in the middle-ages as the pike square, and gods it got some use, especially amongst the Swiss, and for a time (a few centuries), those guys were the toughest troops in Europe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
interesting, fellow history buff? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ur on my friends list. the romans also had a cool semi-mobile phalanx with their tower shields. Ofcourse rome was heavily influenced by greek culture, before and after they invaded and consumed greece.

nanogasm

03-30-2011, 04:36 PM

Dane!! So that's where you've gone. The SFI forums close, D3 gets released and you wander off lured by the shiny trinkets of HoMM!?

Blasphemy!

Return to Nevandaar dammit. Ashan is filled with butterflies and neon glow that causes painful ickies behind thine eyes.

Besides, the Clans are on their way. Dwarf tossing will be back in season.

wabbit

Metamagician

03-30-2011, 07:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by najmul88:

Yeah i kinda find it odd the army ranks compose 50/50 men and women, and a bird ^^
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Horrible, just horrible!

Thunion

03-31-2011, 02:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And a sunsteed granted by Elrath does not appear to be merely an irradiated horse either. No, a short dude on a horse with a lance never seemed fitting as a tier 6 from previous installments. Academy gets giant, multibladed, lionheaded spirits of destruction and Haven gets a guy on a horse? The necromancers get the grim reaper himself, and Haven gets a guy on the horse? Yes, giving the knight a magical steed made of "pure light" seems to slightly even the playing field a little. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It seems you actually think that Mythical units are stronger then non mythical...We had swordsman as T4 for haven However Academy got T4 Mage,inferno got succubus,necroplis got Vampire and Haven got only swordsman? Thats just one of the examples.A guy with a stick isint that bad,you just overpower mythical ones..Who the hell are those 4 Handed Lions? What they can do against charge of guy with a stick?They will be impaled on stick before they can even swing.."Grim reapers" are just silly tormented souls with a scythe A SCYTHE,the peasnts tool...They can be impaled on stick to,And well what the hell horse changes? it still a guy with a stick..
one more thing i dont like about haven,well it looks like it that the only point of upgrade is more shiny armor...

@Zymeth313
You got a point.. But i really hope to see peasants ingame.. But well i bet it will be like always "OMG we are doomed our shiny wariors fallen!
Wait there is one last chance we have lets find an super powerfull artifiact/Ally with dragons/sneak into sheogah and beat demon boss /etc. which is very risky and will need super strong/wise very lucky hero to do that!
But wait we have a few thousands/dozens of thousands of peasants,why we cant use them? it would be less risky
Peasants are you serious? They are not shiny!
..."

Xenofex_086

03-31-2011, 02:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> My point was that I think a fat peasant with a pitchfork is a really stupid idea for a creature any faction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Stupid or not, a fragile-looking nun with no weapons and armor is not any better.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Peasants had no place being in this game to begin with. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Because you say so?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And a sunsteed granted by Elrath does not appear to be merely an irradiated horse either. No, a short dude on a horse with a lance never seemed fitting as a tier 6 from previous installments. Academy gets giant, multibladed, lionheaded spirits of destruction and Haven gets a guy on a horse? The necromancers get the grim reaper himself, and Haven gets a guy on the horse? Yes, giving the knight a magical steed made of "pure light" seems to slightly even the playing field a little. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You imagined all this stuff, how do you know that the horse is making the rider any better just because it glows? Its only advantage compared to the normal horse seems to be that it could pass through obstacles and such. In terms of strength, toughness and so on - what's new?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Just a few pages a go I read about everyone agreeing that greeks dressed in gold or silver just to impress their enemies, how is this so different. Any army during Medieval or previous periods always tried to look better then their enemy, showing off their wealth alongside martial prowess. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nonsense. The nobles may had tried to look impressive but the purpose of the regular force was to kill and reduce the casualties among its ranks, not to look good.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The phalanx was repeated in the middle-ages as the pike square, and gods it got some use, especially amongst the Swiss, and for a time (a few centuries), those guys were the toughest troops in Europe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Plus the Landsknecht mercenaries and it was even applied in the early modern ages when the bayonet was still not invented (or was too primitive) and the firearm troops needed protection against cavalry charges.

WaterPoloLaw

03-31-2011, 08:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Stupid or not, a fragile-looking nun with no weapons and armor is not any better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree entirely. What is the difference between the sister and a traditional RPG "priest class" or "white mage" other than she is a woman?

I actually like the sorceress/priestess feel to the sister. This is a fantasy game after all and she is clearly a magic user class. There is absolutely zero difference between her and the traditional RPG, robe-wearing "priest class" or "white mage class" other than the sister is a woman.

She is a magic user after all; it is really not necessary that she wear heavy armor or carry a weapon. This is especially true since Ubi has demonstrated in a gameplay video that she is almost entirely a support unit.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Because you say so? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, not because I say so. Rather, because they were a fairly boring unit that added no real value to the Haven line-up at all. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think a lot of people really enjoyed peasants as a unit. Apparently from your previous post, neither did you.

As you stated earlier:

"As for the faction in general - it's laughable but I hardly give a damn about them, they've always been at the bottom of my list, except maybe in Heroes I and II."

I could not agree more. Haven has never had the most interesting units as a whole. At teir one, who wants to control armies of fat farmers with pitchforks when at the same tier for other factions you can control skeleton archers, gun-slinging gremlins, and poison dagger throwing assassins.

Sure, I think a handful of players liked peasants, but they were seemingly in the vast minority. I'll state again that the removal of the peasant for the female "priest class" magic-user is a good move.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You imagined all this stuff, how do you know that the horse is making the rider any better just because it glows? Its only advantage compared to the normal horse seems to be that it could pass through obstacles and such. In terms of strength, toughness and so on - what's new? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The creature description says as follows:

"Commonly known as Sun Riders, these champions of the Light are riding enchanted steedssummoned from Elrath's spiritual realm. These magical mounts are said to be able to ride on the faintest ray of light."

The terms, "enchanted steeds," "magical mounts," "summoned from spiritual realm" suggests that they are better than your average horse, don't you think? Enough said.

Xenofex_086

03-31-2011, 10:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I disagree entirely. What is the difference between the sister and a traditional RPG "priest class" or "white mage" other than she is a woman? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This is not an argument. First of all, it's not reported that she knows any defensive spells to compensate for her lack of armor and physical strength. If you want to think that she knows such - go ahead, but the point is to prove it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Rather, because they were a fairly boring unit that added no real value to the Haven line-up at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, in a medieval society where it's perfectly normal to have a wide-spread conscription of the lower classes when you go to war, you can have peasants in the line-up - and not young ladies wearing their best dresses and jewels. Whether they are "boring" or not is another matter. I don't find neither of the current Haven creatures to be particularly exciting so given that they are all boring and uninspired to me, I prefer to think what makes sense and what not.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The terms, "enchanted steeds," "magical mounts," "summoned from spiritual realm" suggests that they are better than your average horse, don't you think? Enough said. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You keep avoiding my question - where does it say that the creature becomes stronger because "the steed is enchanted"? It could be faster or more maneuverable but how exactly it's tougher or stronger? For all we know, these irradiated horses could actually be frailer than the "physical ones". And the rider is the same "human with a stick".

Nalafein

03-31-2011, 10:23 AM

OH Shinny's xD. Im glad its so shinny, i will feel much better when i rip'em apart! and fill their gloryhole towns with death and pestilence

Thunion

03-31-2011, 11:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">OH Shinny's xD. Im glad its so shinny, i will feel much better when i rip'em apart! and fill their gloryhole towns with death and pestilence </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Problem is that now they have alot of girls.. and i dont like beating girls..But well beating funny Preathorian and crossbowman,and Guy with a stick on irradiated horse will be pure enyoiment.
Btw must disagree that haven wasnt popular,my friend is huge haven fan,and for me haven was a t 4th town but well i know that from personal experience since i started to join forums only like year ago.However haven was what it was an imperealistic human kingdom which was looking amazing,it was most realistic one and bringed Reality Vs Fantasy aspect of the game.In H6 they got no realism left at all so it means we dont have no Realistic unit in a whole game left at all which i dont like.And again WHY THE HELL they have to be soo shiny? it reminds me Cartoon-movies to much...
I want weak looking units for a reason,then strong units looks stronger,Lets see Peasant Vs Angel Peasant look just pathetic here,while angel look so magnificent,Sentinel Vs Seraph Sentinel looks like hero from old greece and he actually have a chance against seraph(at least it looks to me) its just stupid,weak creatures must look weak and strong creatures must look strong..
And one more thing How to fit peasants into the new haven? 1Peasant=10 peasants(like we had 3 ghosts in H5) problem solved.

WaterPoloLaw

03-31-2011, 01:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is not an argument. First of all, it's not reported that she knows any defensive spells to compensate for her lack of armor and physical strength. If you want to think that she knows such - go ahead, but the point is to prove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a fantasy game, dude. The sister is a female version of a traditional robe-wearing, magic-wielding RPG class (i.e., the priest). Her primary role is clearly as a healer on the battlefield, much like the primary role of a priest in any RPG setting.

Second, what are you talking about defensive spells for? How is that even relevant? If a person can heal and ressurect fallen allied warriors using magic from afar off (i.e., away from the front lines), then how is that person not viable in battle?

I don't have to prove anything. As stated, this is my opinion and I happen to like the sister as a unit for Haven. But since you asked, there is a German gameplay video out there on you tube that shows the sisters attacking using non-ranged magical bolts of light coming out of their hands. She is a female version of a traditional RPG class, the priest. Her abilities to heal fallen allies would be beneficial in any "real life" setting if that is what you are so concerned with. Enough said already.

(Besides, I don't know why you care so much anyway? I clearly stated in my orignial post that this way my opinion. If you don't like my opinion of the sister (which is positive) then you are more than entitled to your own opinion. I really don't care, so I can't see why you care so much about my opinion?)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yes, in a medieval society where it's perfectly normal to have a wide-spread conscription of the lower classes when you go to war, you can have peasants in the line-up - and not young ladies wearing their best dresses and jewels. Whether they are "boring" or not is another matter. I don't find neither of the current Haven creatures to be particularly exciting so given that they are all boring and uninspired to me, I prefer to think what makes sense and what not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To each his own. I prefer to think of what is more exciting when playing a fantasy video game. I am not so concerned about "real life" when playing a game about demons and undead and a light dragon god who lives in the moon which is really some sort of cocoon becase she is really a spider.

Can we not have a different opinion here? I like the new Haven and am more exiceted about it than any other faction other then the Necropolis. You hate it? That is O.K. But I happen to think it is great. Some like swiss cheese, others like peanut butter. To each his own.

And, by the way, for me this is not a game about medieval society; this is a fantasy game. If in real life you would find priestesses who could legitimately heal fallen warriors using spells from afar while holding their own using offensive magic for attack, you probably would have found them on medieval battlefields as well.

The point: I like the new primary, teir 1-3 primary support unit for Haven. I like the priestesses much better than the peasants. If you like the peasants more because it feels more like "real life" medieval times to you, then so be it. But like them or not, (a) this is not a game about medieval times (it is a fantasy game about a made-up magical world) and (b) peasants are not in the game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You keep avoiding my question - where does it say that the creature becomes stronger because "the steed is enchanted"? It could be faster or more maneuverable but how exactly it's tougher or stronger? For all we know, these irradiated horses could actually be frailer than the "physical ones". And the rider is the same "human with a stick". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not avoiding your question at all. I guess I just REALLY confused by whatever it is you are trying to argue. Did I ever say they were "stronger?" Um...no? How in the world did you interpret my position as being a dispute over the physical strength of a sunsteed (i.e., a made-up magical animal)?

Here is my orignial post:

Quote:

"Sunrider gets a new horse. You know you were all thinking about this. Yes, the regular champions when compared to all other tier six units just seemed really out of place. I mean we have pitlords and wights and giant death spirits against...a man on a horse with a stick?"

"At least with the magical "sun horse," the situation makes more sense. Not to mention that it looks cool to boot. Could not be happier about the sun rider."

First, did I claim they were "stronger" in the sense you are claiming? Nope. I was simply stating the fact that, for me, they do seem more on the level now of a teir 6 unit with their "magical" and "enchanted" horses.

Second, I was clearly stating an opinion. It is clearly entirely irrelevant whether or not they are actually "stronger" or not since I was stating, in my opinion, that they appear to be and feel more like a teir 6 unit now.

What are you trying to aruge here? Whether or not a fantasy sunsteed could bench more than a regular horse and, therefore, I am wrong? It is a fantasy game video game, dude. If Ubi says they are magical and enchanted and "gifts from a dragon god" and they look magical and enchanted, then it works for me.

Shawn85

03-31-2011, 01:21 PM

[/QUOTE]This is not an argument. First of all, it's not reported that she knows any defensive spells to compensate for her lack of armor and physical strength. If you want to think that she knows such - go ahead, but the point is to prove it.
[/QUOTE]Yes, in a medieval society where it's perfectly normal to have a wide-spread conscription of the lower classes when you go to war, you can have peasants in the line-up - and not young ladies wearing their best dresses and jewels. Whether they are "boring" or not is another matter. I don't find neither of the current Haven creatures to be particularly exciting so given that they are all boring and uninspired to me, I prefer to think what makes sense and what not.

This

Shawn85

03-31-2011, 01:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nalafein:
OH Shinny's xD. Im glad its so shinny, i will feel much better when i rip'em apart! and fill their gloryhole towns with death and pestilence </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This

Shawn85

03-31-2011, 01:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thunion:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">OH Shinny's xD. Im glad its so shinny, i will feel much better when i rip'em apart! and fill their gloryhole towns with death and pestilence </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Problem is that now they have alot of girls.. and i dont like beating girls..But well beating funny Preathorian and crossbowman,and Guy with a stick on irradiated horse will be pure enyoiment.
Btw must disagree that haven wasnt popular,my friend is huge haven fan,and for me haven was a t 4th town but well i know that from personal experience since i started to join forums only like year ago.However haven was what it was an imperealistic human kingdom which was looking amazing,it was most realistic one and bringed Reality Vs Fantasy aspect of the game.In H6 they got no realism left at all so it means we dont have no Realistic unit in a whole game left at all which i dont like.And again WHY THE HELL they have to be soo shiny? it reminds me Cartoon-movies to much...
I want weak looking units for a reason,then strong units looks stronger,Lets see Peasant Vs Angel Peasant look just pathetic here,while angel look so magnificent,Sentinel Vs Seraph Sentinel looks like hero from old greece and he actually have a chance against seraph(at least it looks to me) its just stupid,weak creatures must look weak and strong creatures must look strong..
And one more thing How to fit peasants into the new haven? 1Peasant=10 peasants(like we had 3 ghosts in H5) problem solved. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This

Shawn85

03-31-2011, 01:23 PM

I hope your listening Blackhole, if you over sexualize this series I'm not the only fan you will lose business from.

Shawn85

03-31-2011, 01:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WaterPoloLaw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is not an argument. First of all, it's not reported that she knows any defensive spells to compensate for her lack of armor and physical strength. If you want to think that she knows such - go ahead, but the point is to prove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a fantasy game, dude. The sister is a female version of a traditional robe-wearing, magic-wielding RPG class (i.e., the priest). Her primary role is clearly as a healer on the battlefield, much like the primary role of a priest in any RPG setting.

Second, what are you talking about defensive spells for? How is that even relevant? If a person can heal and ressurect fallen allied warriors using magic from afar off (i.e., away from the front lines), then how is that person not viable in battle?

I don't have to prove anything. As stated, this is my opinion and I happen to like the sister as a unit for Haven. But since you asked, there is a German gameplay video out there on you tube that shows the sisters attacking using non-ranged magical bolts of light coming out of their hands. She is a female version of a traditional RPG class, the priest. Her abilities to heal fallen allies would be beneficial in any "real life" setting if that is what you are so concerned with. Enough said already.

(Besides, I don't know why you care so much anyway? I clearly stated in my orignial post that this way my opinion. If you don't like my opinion of the sister (which is positive) then you are more than entitled to your own opinion. I really don't care, so I can't see why you care so much about my opinion?)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yes, in a medieval society where it's perfectly normal to have a wide-spread conscription of the lower classes when you go to war, you can have peasants in the line-up - and not young ladies wearing their best dresses and jewels. Whether they are "boring" or not is another matter. I don't find neither of the current Haven creatures to be particularly exciting so given that they are all boring and uninspired to me, I prefer to think what makes sense and what not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To each his own. I prefer to think of what is more exciting when playing a fantasy video game. I am not so concerned about "real life" when playing a game about demons and undead and a light dragon god who lives in the moon which is really some sort of cocoon becase she is really a spider.

Can we not have a different opinion here? I like the new Haven and am more exiceted about it than any other faction other then the Necropolis. You hate it? That is O.K. But I happen to think it is great. Some like swiss cheese, others like peanut butter. To each his own.

And, by the way, for me this is not a game about medieval society; this is a fantasy game. If in real life you would find priestesses who could legitimately heal fallen warriors using spells from afar while holding their own using offensive magic for attack, you probably would have found them on medieval battlefields as well.

The point: I like the new primary, teir 1-3 primary support unit for Haven. I like the priestesses much better than the peasants. If you like the peasants more because it feels more like "real life" medieval times to you, then so be it. But like them or not, (a) this is not a game about medieval times (it is a fantasy game about a made-up magical world) and (b) peasants are not in the game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You keep avoiding my question - where does it say that the creature becomes stronger because "the steed is enchanted"? It could be faster or more maneuverable but how exactly it's tougher or stronger? For all we know, these irradiated horses could actually be frailer than the "physical ones". And the rider is the same "human with a stick". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not avoiding your question at all. I guess I just REALLY confused by whatever it is you are trying to argue. Did I ever say they were "stronger?" Um...no? How in the world did you interpret my position as being a dispute over the physical strength of a sunsteed (i.e., a made-up magical animal)?

Here is my orignial post:

Quote:

"Sunrider gets a new horse. You know you were all thinking about this. Yes, the regular champions when compared to all other tier six units just seemed really out of place. I mean we have pitlords and wights and giant death spirits against...a man on a horse with a stick?"

"At least with the magical "sun horse," the situation makes more sense. Not to mention that it looks cool to boot. Could not be happier about the sun rider."

First, did I claim they were "stronger" in the sense you are claiming? Nope. I was simply stating the fact that, for me, they do seem more on the level now of a teir 6 unit with their "magical" and "enchanted" horses.

Second, I was clearly stating an opinion. It is clearly entirely irrelevant whether or not they are actually "stronger" or not since I was stating, in my opinion, that they appear to be and feel more like a teir 6 unit now.

What are you trying to aruge here? Whether or not a fantasy sunsteed could bench more than a regular horse and, therefore, I am wrong? It is a fantasy game video game, dude. If Ubi says they are magical and enchanted and "gifts from a dragon god" and they look magical and enchanted, then it works for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems like all you do is defend Black holes controversial decisions. Things like corny faction line ups and lack of a town screen are worthy topics to raise concern and question about...

WaterPoloLaw

03-31-2011, 01:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It seems like all you do is defend Black holes controversial decisions. Things like corny faction line ups and lack of a town screen are worthy topics to raise concern and question about... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't have opinions that are different than yours, Shawn? Now I am defending "controversial decisions" because I actually like the new changes to the Haven faction and would not want to see peasants retruning to the Haven faction in any form?

Like I said, some like peanut butter, others like spam. I happen to like the new priestess/sister unit and the sunhorse champion. Just because I disagree largely with your opinions and the opinions of the incredibly vocal minority on these forums doesn't make me an irrational conformist nor a fanboi.

Believe it or not, there actually are things that I disagree with about this game, but most of those things are either (a) being changed, (b) relatively minor, or (c) have long since been established. For example, I don't love the ghoul unit and the spiky looking demon unit. I think the maniac looks a little silly. But, the rest of the Necropolis and Inferno faction looks pretty good to me.

znork

03-31-2011, 01:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
I hope your listening Blackhole, if you over sexualize this series I'm not the only fan you will lose business from. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you see the dundion faction in h5? And the sad part is that if they loos you they will gain more. Its sad fackt sex sels.

Shawn85

03-31-2011, 02:58 PM

Yes znork, It is sad that there's a demographic who buy videogames to see drawn women in lingerie. But in all honesty those were just two units out of the whole game in homm5. I thought that h5 line up was excellent in most regards. Waterpololaw, I don't feel like argueing with u and in all honesty I didn't mean to offend you. I see that uve turned this into a 'my opinions are different than urs exchange' but that was not the nature of my post. From what I've seen it just seems like u only agree with the the maker of the game and try to quell forum contrversy. Also I wouldn't call the fans passionate enough to post on relevant threads an "incredibaly vocal minority".

WaterPoloLaw

03-31-2011, 03:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Did you see the dundion faction in h5? And the sad part is that if they loos you they will gain more. Its sad fackt sex sels. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this is my only real gripe about the Haven and the Sanctuary. I am not upset about the female units. In fact, I think they are great. However, I do have a problem with the fact that the radiant glory and the spring spirit are essentially topless. Not that this is new to the series, but I don't agree with the lack of clothing for the radiant glory or the spring spirit.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
Yes znork, It is sad that there's a demographic who buy videogames to see drawn women in lingerie. But in all honesty those were just two units out of the whole game in homm5. I thought that h5 line up was excellent in most regards. Waterpololaw, I don't feel like argueing with u and in all honesty I didn't mean to offend you. I see that uve turned this into a 'my opinions are different than urs exchange' but that was not the nature of my post. From what I've seen it just seems like u only agree with the the maker of the game and try to quell forum contrversy. Also I wouldn't call the fans passionate enough to post on relevant threads an "incredibaly vocal minority". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, Shawn, it cuts both ways. I am just a fan passionate enough to post on relevant threads too.

You didn't offend me, Shawn, but the problem in this situation was very clear. I stated an opinion; one which I stand by that the sister is, in my PERSONAL OPINION, a welcomed addition to the Haven line-up, especailly when given that the unit which was dropped was the peasant -- a unit which I PERSONALLY felt was entirely lackluster.

Others on these forums, however, take real personal offense to anything that apparently contridicts their own opinions -- i.e., demanding "proof" that the made-up sister is indeed a priest-like caster unit becuase she has or does not have defensive spells or that a fantastical sunsteed is indeed "stronger" than a regular horse, even though those issues were never even a point in the discussion nor formed any basis for any of my opinions as clearly stated.

This, Shawn, is the vocal minority. Forums should be a place where people with different opinions may go to express their ideas and their agreement (or disagreement) with game development. Not places where someone's expressed personal opinions are attacked becuase they simply disagree with yours.

That said, I could not have been clearer that my opinions expressed in the original thread I posted were just that MY OPINIONS. And just to clarify so you are not confused, I am not calling mere fans passionate about the game the "vocal minority." No, I am calling out people who clearly like to target others whos opinions differ from thier own as being increadibly abrasive (pulling out crap about being "stronger" or "having defensive spells" when that never was an issue or even the discussion) and, yes, what I hope would be a vocal minority.

Lovgren

03-31-2011, 05:23 PM

Hello! Followed this forum a few months or so and appreciate a lot of the threads and discussions. Haven is the faction I look forward the most to playing, so I decided to share some thoughts in this thread.

To me it's important that a fantasy world feels believable in the given circumstances, that it makes sense. The combination of amazing and believable makes it great. These values often are contradictory and thus great fantasy worlds are difficult to create.

I have some problems with what I see of the Haven faction, but it isn't the fact that there are women in it.

As a reflection of our real world history, women in an army would make no sense. Our medieval world was a patriarch and combat favored physical strength above all. BUT in the Heroes world, where circumstances are different, women in the army don't automatically feel out of place to me. Where magic plays such a large role I see no reason why females couldn't take place in combat.

And, in particular, I see no reason why the female healer should be replaced with a male healer for the sake of "making sense". Females in the role of caretakers is certainly not unbelievable, rather stereotypical.

As for the lack of armor - casters usually don't have armor, casters are not thought to be able to withstand strikes, they are ment to avoid the strikes all together, be it with magic or distance. In many fantasy settings casters can't wear armor, explained by that it's too heavy for them or that it disturbs their channelling stuff. I buy that.

I don't like the radiant glory unit for various reasons, but it wouldn't have made more sense to me if it was a male spirit.

My biggest problem with the Haven faction lies in the overall unit composition. Out of the seven units, only one is infantry and even that one has the feel of support unit to it. And its name is unfortunate as "Praetorian" brings association to roman empire elite guards, opposing the desired image of a main infantry unit. I get this picture of elites and support units, but nothing in between. Like... who are they supporting? An army of elites?... not elites then, are they? I think I would have liked a swordsman in there.

And something else that bugs me with my favourite faction is the rider/champion with its lance. In H3 they were recruited in a jousting arena, which clarifies my problem with them... cavalry with lance look gimmicky and I think to myself, why would they pick a lance that is likely to get stuck in its first target over a sword that can be swung around for some additional kills. You could argue against my complaint here by pointing out other unpractical weapons like the huge spear of the praetorian.. but that won't change the slightly silly image in my head of the Haven rider with a couple of enemies stuck on his lance like berries on a straw. Which by the way also applies to the whole concept of ballistas.

GoranXII

03-31-2011, 08:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My biggest problem with the Haven faction lies in the overall unit composition. Out of the seven units, only one is infantry and even that one has the feel of support unit to it. And its name is unfortunate as "Praetorian" brings association to roman empire elite guards, opposing the desired image of a main infantry unit. I get this picture of elites and support units, but nothing in between. Like... who are they supporting? An army of elites?... not elites then, are they? I think I would have liked a swordsman in there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay we've got cavalry, pikes and archers, that's a not unrealistic makeup. As for lances, a lot of nations only disbanded their lancer units in the 1920s.

Xenofex_086

04-01-2011, 12:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> This is a fantasy game, dude. The sister is a female version of a traditional robe-wearing, magic-wielding RPG class (i.e., the priest). Her primary role is clearly as a healer on the battlefield, much like the primary role of a priest in any RPG setting.

Second, what are you talking about defensive spells for? How is that even relevant? If a person can heal and ressurect fallen allied warriors using magic from afar off (i.e., away from the front lines), then how is that person not viable in battle? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, dude, it's a fantasy game but if you think that fantasy could mean anything, even the ridiculous, then I totally disagree. The things that are acceptable for you are not for me. In my not that humble opinion the healer needs to be alive to heal, which is rather difficult when you are in the middle of the battlefield with no weapons, armour or defensive enchantments, not to mention training. Male or female.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I don't have to prove anything. As stated, this is my opinion and I happen to like the sister as a unit for Haven. But since you asked, there is a German gameplay video out there on you tube that shows the sisters attacking using non-ranged magical bolts of light coming out of their hands. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>How does that prove that she can defend herself?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Besides, I don't know why you care so much anyway? I clearly stated in my orignial post that this way my opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It would be good when you state your opinion to avoid "I can't see what's the people's problem with...", "peasants never really fitted..." and so on statements which sound a bit stronger than opinions. If you can't see, just state your mind and move on. If you want to see, then start thinking about what other people tell you.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And, by the way, for me this is not a game about medieval society; this is a fantasy game. If in real life you would find priestesses who could legitimately heal fallen warriors using spells from afar while holding their own using offensive magic for attack, you probably would have found them on medieval battlefields as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Haven are medieval human faction, this is clear for everybody but you, apparently.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I am not avoiding your question at all. I guess I just REALLY confused by whatever it is you are trying to argue. Did I ever say they were "stronger?" Um...no? How in the world did you interpret my position as being a dispute over the physical strength of a sunsteed (i.e., a made-up magical animal)?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, what's your problem with the old Cavalier/Champion then? You said that the latter didn't seem to be on a par with rest of the former tier 6s - what makes the new Sun Rider "equal" to creatures like them? The glowing horse?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> What are you trying to aruge here? Whether or not a fantasy sunsteed could bench more than a regular horse and, therefore, I am wrong? It is a fantasy game video game, dude. If Ubi says they are magical and enchanted and "gifts from a dragon god" and they look magical and enchanted, then it works for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ubi could say that the human peasants are being raised as warriors and when they join the army, they are fully capable of participating in battle and then you won't buy it. It's really a matter of what you buy or not. And to repeat once again - "fantasy" doesn't mean "ridiculous", at least as far as I'm concerned. If something doesn't make sense you can make a lore explanation but you have to be damn good, otherwise - like the case with many things regarding Heroes V/VI - you're just disguising your lack of imagination.

Thunion

04-01-2011, 05:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What are you trying to aruge here? Whether or not a fantasy sunsteed could bench more than a regular horse and, therefore, I am wrong? It is a fantasy game video game, dude. If Ubi says they are magical and enchanted and "gifts from a dragon god" and they look magical and enchanted, then it works for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Err one more thing how it happens that ALL riders got horses,with exception of best riders(heroes)? its kinda statment that Normal Horse>Sun Horse isint it?
Also agree with Xenofex_086 fantasy for me is dragons griffins mages etc,not a explanation for ridiculous things,that is diffrent fantasy not applied in the games.Games got general rules of universe that are diffrent from our world,However they still got such rules no need to forget that.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The sister is a female version of a traditional robe-wearing, magic-wielding RPG class </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes sister is,priest isint..Sister is lesser support only unit(and i want them to remain like this,if i will see sisters capable of doing some demage i will be
dissapointed) while Priest,is battlemage.I see Radiant glory as a replacemnt for Priest,and i by all means hate it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well, what's your problem with the old Cavalier/Champion then? You said that the latter didn't seem to be on a par with rest of the former tier 6s - what makes the new Sun Rider "equal" to creatures like them? The glowing horse? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This

Matt1128Y

04-03-2011, 01:09 AM

By the looks of it, Black Hole Entertainment screwed up more than just Haven.

In any case, why are Angel units female and dual wielding swords? (angels are genderless and this isn't Halo; the angels look stupid). What the heck is "Radiant Glory"? Why would anyone name a unit Radiant Glory? And why do they look like Storm from X-men? Why do the Griffins look emaciated? Why are archers wearing giaganic hood ornaments on their heads? WHAT THE #$^@ IS THIS ^#@!?

znork

04-03-2011, 01:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Matt1128Y:
By the looks of it, Black Hole Entertainment screwed up more than just Haven.

In any case, why are Angel units female and dual wielding swords? (angels are genderless and this isn't Halo; the angels look stupid). What the heck is "Radiant Glory"? Why would anyone name a unit Radiant Glory? And why do they look like Storm from X-men? Why do the Griffins look emaciated? Why are archers wearing giaganic hood ornaments on their heads? WHAT THE #$^@ IS THIS ^#@!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Radiant Glory is a unit in heros 6. Becuse they did not want it to be an angel. Becuse the designer liekd storm form x men. Becuse they eat to many worms. The ornaments are the latest fashion in ashan. Youre last question was very har do interpret but i would belive this is the heven faction. Fell free to ask more questions.

WaterPoloLaw

04-04-2011, 11:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Yes, dude, it's a fantasy game but if you think that fantasy could mean anything, even the ridiculous, then I totally disagree. The things that are acceptable for you are not for me. In my not that humble opinion the healer needs to be alive to heal, which is rather difficult when you are in the middle of the battlefield with no weapons, armour or defensive enchantments, not to mention training. Male or female. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, this is a game about a mythical magical world created by a dragon god that lives in the moon which is really a cocoon because she, at least in her death aspect, is really a spider goddess. Part of the fun of fantasy games is that they are fantastical and are NOT necessarily realistic, at least for me.

Moreover, as I stated earlier, she is clearly meant to be at the back of the army (as demonstrated in the gameplay video) and, if she can, remain out of the battle as mentioned in the gameplay video.

For me, this is a fantasy game and I think she fits in great as a female version of a robe-wearing, healing, magic-user "priest class," -- i.e., a class common to all traditional RPG games.

You don't have to like her, but many of us think she fits in great with the series and with the Haven. Just like many of us buy into the fact that magic-user classes such as druids, mages, and liches do not need to wear armor to be effective on a field of battle, many of us buy into the sister.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">How does that prove that she can defend herself? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am just very confused. Does every humanoid creature in the game have to be wearing plate or have some form of clear defensive capability in order for it to make sense? What about druids or mages from previous installments? What about liches and monks? Why is it so unacceptable for a robe-wearing, magic-user class to be wearing, well, a robe? This is even more the case where the magic-user class is to function largely as a support class for other units (as stated by the developers) and is not meant to be in the thick of battle.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It would be good when you state your opinion to avoid "I can't see what's the people's problem with...", "peasants never really fitted..." and so on statements which sound a bit stronger than opinions. If you can't see, just state your mind and move on. If you want to see, then start thinking about what other people tell you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I clearly stated multiple times in my thread that "this is my opinion" and "IMHO." Read my thread in the entire context (as opposed to picking and choosing a couple of partial phrases) and you will see I was CLEARlY stating an opinion. Which leads me to ask, why do you care so much? Don't pretend that you didn't recognize that I was clearly stating my opinion, because I stated multiple times I was.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Haven are medieval human faction, this is clear for everybody but you, apparently.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL. Haven is about the fantasy griffin empire that worships a dragon which is the embodiment of light on a made-up world. Haven is as much a faction from medieval Europe as the Sanctuary is an army of Japanese feudal warriors. Based on your argument, and to make it seem more realistic, not only haven, but the Sanctuary should have pitch-fork weilding peasants as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well, what's your problem with the old Cavalier/Champion then? You said that the latter didn't seem to be on a par with rest of the former tier 6s - what makes the new Sun Rider "equal" to creatures like them? The glowing horse? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um...the same thing I said multiple times before? If Ubi says that the horses are "magical" and "enchanted" and "gifts from Elrath," then that is good enough for me.

FOR ME, yes, they do feel more special with thier new enchanted horses that can blind people and move through units. If you don't agree and you don't like them, you do not have to.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ubi could say that the human peasants are being raised as warriors and when they join the army, they are fully capable of participating in battle and then you won't buy it. It's really a matter of what you buy or not. And to repeat once again - "fantasy" doesn't mean "ridiculous", at least as far as I'm concerned. If something doesn't make sense you can make a lore explanation but you have to be damn good, otherwise - like the case with many things regarding Heroes V/VI - you're just disguising your lack of imagination. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bah. You are free to your opinion and I am free to mine.

Personally, I do "buy it" that there are no peasants which are fighting in these wars, at least not without training and appropriate weaponry. And, yes, I do "buy it" that a healing magic-user class does not wear armor in a fantasy game. You clearly don't "buy it," so to each his own.

Moreover, I will have to ask the most obviously glaring question of all which is, what is up with you and your clear distate for anthing other than Heroes III? Maybe I missed something, but you are very vocal on these forums and I have yet to see ANYTHING positive said by you about this new installment?

Indeed, you have all but called me out as some sort of fanboi -- even when I have made at least a handful of critisms. However, on the other hand, I cannot see you EVER speaking positive about Heroes VI in the least.

In addition, I read the Heroes Community forums occasionally as well and see that you have ranted and raved against this game for pages and pages in the so-called "complaints" thread (unless there is another Xenofex).

Setting all things aside (i.e., I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to your's on the issue of sisters, sunriders and peasants), I gotta ask why you are even here? Are you even planning on playing or purchasing this game? From what I have seen, you don't seem too keen on buying this game at all, so why comment on all these forums? Because you are frustrated about the removal of the 3 resources? Because you are hoping the developers will turn an about face with respect to H6 when they are now 99% into its development?

To clarify, you often post on these forums as though you are some sort of highly concerned fan like the rest of us, but (forgive my being blunt) it does not appear that you are in the least. Indeed, it does not appear you have liked anything to do about Heroes or the Might and Magic series since the late 90's. Indeed, you have a lot of activity on two fan forums and I can't see a single post where you even appear to be even remotely interested in purchasing or playing this game.

So I got to ask, are you really a concerned fan? Are you really even considering purchasing this game at all? Are you really commenting to make this game better? Or, are you just trolling the forums looking for those whose opinions about this game differ from yours to pick an argument with for no reason?

The truth is that I really don't care so much about your motives, but I got to wonder why you even want to post here. If you are so unhappy with EVERYTHING to do about this game, from resources, to the sister, to the sunrider and his "irradiated horse," to town windows, to the cerberus name change, and never have anything positive at all to say about the game, then should you be purchasing this game? Or, should you move on and find a game, I don't know, that is more "realistic" to you?

Xenofex_086

04-05-2011, 03:36 AM

Regarding the Sister issue - whatever. Your interpretation of what a "fantasy" is not the same as mine and that's how it's going to remain. However, I disagree that you are expressing your opinions in a neutral manner and that's why intervened in the first place.

As for the "concern" and in general the more funny part of your post - yes, I do thinks that certain things about Heroes VI hold promise and I've said it where it's been due so far. Just because you haven't done your homework you shouldn't be jumping to conclusions you know. Indeed I'm more vocal when it comes to criticism but forgive me (or don't, I don't really care), it's just my nature to consider that the things which are wrong require more attention than the things which are right. I still do intend to buy the game - not that this is any of your concern - IF the DRM is not some restrictive rubbish and IF Ubisoft stop speaking insulting crap regarding the controversial issues of the development (it's about respecting the other human beings really, something which the modern society and especially the big companies have forgotten). I just want to see some things fixed - it's not really a hard concept, give it some thought.
On the other hand, your caring nature so far is manifesting itself predominantly in praising almost (the "almost" here is because I'm not really following your posts closely to know for sure) everything which Ubihole are doing, including the stuff which a large number of people are complaining about. That's not "caring" in my book, but let's call it differences in perception. But you are right that you are not doing much to build a non-fanboy image.
As for your last suggestion - it's rather childish, so no need to comment it in details.

Shawn85

04-05-2011, 10:59 AM

Dungeon was popular before because they had that weird evil dominatrix theme with 2 powerful chick units. It fit with the theme, now pretty much all factions except orcs and inferno have overdone that. Waterpololaw (Ive been checking the forums and i cant think of too many other names) and a few others see no problem that its almost a 50/50 male and female military presence but most do. Fantasy is fictional but adherence to certain principles and real inspiration is what makes a certain mythos epic. outside of the persian navy women did NOT fight in ancient or medieval wars. from what ive seen waterpololaw strongly agrees with everything blackhole does, at first i thought he was some kind of forum spy but maybe hes just a big fan. Seraphs definately need to be replaced by angels, and Fatespinners should be deleted for the return of the deathknight. And also blackhole, its not too late; the Haven aesthetic is maligned on these forums by a strong majority. Change their aesthetic theme! Instead of this ridiculous white cape and big gold birds shiny look they could go ancient roman. if that "griffin eternal" catch phrase makes it into this iteration ill give there whole campaign a pass.

mcgslo

05-24-2011, 11:38 PM

Radiant glory seems to be multiplying...

in Dungeon Siege 3: Radian glory? (http://cdn.steampowered.com/v/gfx/apps/901638/ss_ebc800aa3fd747f57ccb7a92281abfef848271c5.1920x1 080.jpg?t=1305823820)

chipmanman

05-25-2011, 08:44 AM

DSIII appears to be the real culprit when it comes to games not matching the pre-review hype. I won't get into it but I was disappointed when I looked more into the game, whereas HMM6 looks like 3 mixed with 5 and super graphics and a much better environmental look.

If all you're complaining about is the specifics of a pike or a hat ornament on a member of a make believe mythological race I'd say the dev's are doing a pretty good job listening to the community who have been mostly screaming "HoMM3".

I don't know why it'd be realistic to have angels, zealots, and griffons in the past games anyhow, nor do I know why that'd be relevant.

As for me, I'm excited after seeing each and every one of the screenshots because while it is a little more cartoony and colorful than ever (enchanted underground cave anyone?) it is more eye candy than ever before too, so no complaints here.

Would I like haven to resemble a camelot/roman kind of style like it has in the past? Sure. It was cool, castle was cool in HoMM3, but what about every single other creature in the game.

Do you mean to seriously tell me you're going to not buy a game because you can't make-believe you're fighting as a human soldier in an imaginary war? No starcraft for you!

belgarath21

05-26-2011, 09:24 AM

When talking about fantasy games, I think there needs to be more weight on the side of actual legends/myths instead of actual history.

Valkyries and Amazons were very much a part of norse, german and greaco-roman mythology (and this was long before the days of women's lib). Obviously, more modern fantasy stories have included female characters and groups who weren't originally a part of the ancient/medieval mythos.

Griffins actually started their HOMM career as part of the warlock (later renamed dungeon) faction. Several creatures have changed allegiances across different games. (Shameless plug for my "Brief History of factions" post on the HOMM Legacy board http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

chipmanman

05-27-2011, 10:17 AM

Now that you mention it that does ring true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's interesting to see more female characters in games/media however far too many are dressed suggestively as "eye candy" for teenage boys and losers further in years.

belgarath21

05-27-2011, 11:07 AM

The "eye candy" thing is a problem. I don't see any real need for the dungeon faction female units to be dressed the way they are in HOMM V.

Actually the "eye candy" issue in games dovetails well with the issue of the sexualization of women's sports. The good news is that women's sports get more visibility. The bad news is the female athletes are expected to look like slightly more muscular barbie dolls.

Fyrestorme

05-28-2011, 08:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImperialDane:
Well the HoMM VI site was updates with more units, so i thought i'd peek in and have a look at the units of my favorite faction from HoMM V, Haven. And as i looked and read about the new units, i couldn't help but notice i wasn't feeling ecstatic, excited or even remotely interested, i was getting a feeling of detachment and slight dissapointment.

I know that the purpose of the faction was not solely to please me, but i can't help but get the impression that this haven is rather different from the old and well, all other havens in a quite noticable way, and in my opinion, not a good one.

To those saying: "well i quite like the new haven" Good for you ! and i am happy for you. I wish i could share your enthusiasm, but ultimately i end up feeling like i did with Diablo III when all was revealed :
Like none of it spoke to me, like the range of characters present were meant to appeal to a completely different audience, in the case of Diablo III, apparently the lone rogue wolf sort of types. And while i could look at it and say, well that's interesting, it just didn't have an appeal to me, we don't all need to be the lone rogue who doesn't follow the book or any book, or some noble savage. How about some more civilized characters ? Some who can actually work together with others and who's flaws don't involve being dark and brooding.

And for HoMM VI ? What are the sort of things that bother me ? Well, it's just too shiny, too ornate, too impractical and just seems insensible on so many levels.

I mean what soldiers there are seems curiously ornate and shiny, generally giving me the impression of being toy soldiers rather than forces of some Feudal empire, never mind that the attempt of giving some sort of Roman empire feel to it fall short, also because of the high shiny-ness and silly ornateness.

look at the Praetorian and the helm which to me seems awfully fragile and just offers an opponent a good chance of ripping it off, the spear which seems unwieldy or how about the cape ? I mean a cape for infantry ?

or how about the marksmen with the nice eagle on their healmet, which seems like it would easily break off in a breeze.

What of the sister ? Why on earth would you send someone like that into battle ? Where are the battlepriests of HoMM V ? Or any sort of sensible general who deems it necessary to have religious troops on the field.

And again, i know, this is just my opinion, but i'd like to get it out since this feels important to me.

It was a hard blow losing Disciples III of which i had been a great fan for a long time, until their visual designs appeared which were erratic, nonsensical half the time and even more impractical half the time.

And i won't devolve this into Disciples III as i did tell myself back then i wouldn't focus too much on it, but when i see this.. I feel a bit necessary, but to finish this little bit all i have to say is Disciples III broke my heart and while Heroes of Might and Magic VI isn't doing that, it is leaving me a bit sad.

I mean i like some of all the things, i like having another fantasy turn based strategy game in the world of Ashan. But i can't help but feel this is a wrong turn for the haven.

I mean i'm not sure what to say of it now, is it a sort of pseudo-roman empire ? A feudal empire ? Are they worshipping a god of good or just the sun ? And i can't help but feel that this sudden sun aspect being thrown into it mighth have played into the whole shiny aspect of the faction. But again, it just does not appeal to me.

Where is the Feudal medieval empire in this ? Where is the actual army rather than just the private guards of apparently a not awfully practical emperor. There are just so many things that i can't get to make sense or can find reasonable.

I mean i'd love to be able to find the haven fun, but i can't. And the other 4 factions at the moment just don't do it either, i don't care for orcs, daemons or vampires and corpses.

I like medieval troops, swordsmen, knights in armour, fanatical crusaders, zealous warrior priests. Perhaps i am just part of a dying target audience. For which i can't do much and can't expect Ubisoft to go "well hold up, Imperial Dane is sad, we'd best redesign the entire haven faction !"

But i do feel like voicing my concerns with this and pointing out that at least to me. This seems out of place and not really like a haven faction. It just feels like, well something incredibly ornate, yet soulless. Like a hollywood movie gone bad. And i certainly can't see this become the haven of HoMM V at all. I mean this would just crumble and humanity left to rot since this is not something that can fight anything.

At least in my opinion.

So i think i've said all i can about this. And generally, well i just feel left out and not really able to participate, i hope HoMM VI does well, and i hope that some expansion might bring me something i can enjoy. But for now, i'll have to pass.

So to the rest of you, i hope you'll have fun with them and the other factions. And i hope that some of this makes sense and that while you may not agree with me, that you can at least understand and respect my opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with your views on the art direction portion of the haven units.

I just looked at them for the first time and was scrolling through noting your observations on the footman and the archer then i scrolled to the angel and at first i was like "wtf is that" then "oh...wings" then "wtf is that" again... lol.

By making drastic changes you tend to alienate a lot of the people who have been with the franchise from the start and know and love it already.