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View Full Version : Better Carro to rush with, M13 or M15?



SpartanAdam
02-01-2011, 11:27 PM
Both are the same price, the M15 takes longer to research and costs $25. Which one does everyone tend to use?

SpartanAdam
02-01-2011, 11:27 PM
Both are the same price, the M15 takes longer to research and costs $25. Which one does everyone tend to use?

AverageSoldier
02-02-2011, 01:30 AM
M15 is way way better then the M13, however anyone that sucks enough with Italy to rush with these tanks should consider playing another faction

DrumR0ll
02-02-2011, 01:39 AM
don't bother building an armour base at all, build a proto base instead and use falco for recon.

Thats what I do and it works pretty well, on large maps.

Alcarin21
02-02-2011, 02:40 AM
Well how about observe other people rushing and test it yourself...

What do you think it works better after you try?

GRlMGOR
02-02-2011, 02:41 AM
M11 from the barracks are very underestimated sure they move 7 km/h slower and have armour value of 1 while doing a bit less damage then M13 but they same damage to building while been $5 cheaper

2 groups is enought to take out atleast 1 depot

AverageSoldier
02-02-2011, 02:59 AM
M11 is a lovely tank, they are one of my favourates for harrasment, $20 barracks and then $10 tanks is insanely cheap (also get $10 recons and the infantry). They make great depot killers while killing enemy infantry quite well. M13 is the same just alittle better at it while taking on enemy lights.

KillaJules
02-02-2011, 04:46 AM
There is little point to starting with an armour base as Italy. M11s are sufficient for harassing and raiding. Even if your opponent builds only 2 depos that are easily defended, M11s can discourage your opponent from building more distant depos, allowing you to box him in and limit his economy.

M1GarandGuy
02-02-2011, 05:53 AM
I dont rush much, but for Italy, i almost never like to use M13s. Their damage is really bad that i've had times where Russian armored recon proved to be decent opponents to the tank.Saying this, i dont recommend M13s, just go M11 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif youre welcome Spartan

TGApples
02-02-2011, 06:43 AM
Not a fan of M13s, nor M11s. Both can be countered by quite insubstantial forces and I think you'll struggle to do depot raiding with them against pretty much any enemy AT/Armour.

It's perfectly possible to build two armour bases as Italy (only $20 each) and research M15s and Autoblinda 43s quite quickly. The '43s are quite strong and (gasp!) actually have some armour, whereas M15s are lightning fast and cause carnage. If you really want to rush, I'd suggest M15s, though, as previously said, rushing isn't always a good idea...

Mathias_Bras
02-02-2011, 11:18 AM
Are you talking about a rush or just being aggressive?

I don't play 1v1, but in my 2v2 and 3v3 games I always go for m15s right away. They are a big upgrade over the m13s and it really is not that costly to produce them.

Use a forward armor base to get your tanks ready to harass as soon as research is done.

Lots of people might call this a rush, but it is all in how you play it. Don't sacrifice your economy and don't expect to win the game with it.

I generally only build a few tanks (about 3) and often no recon (map dependant). You are just trying to hit some depots, counter your opponents forward bases and test his defenses.

Your investment at this point is not really that much. Good opponents will shut you down, but even if you only get one depot you are in a good position. He has to rebuild it and will also spend effort to counter you. If you are really lucky he might go overboard with anti tank and you simply switch your offense to something else.

Also, m15ís are one of the best anti infantry units and at some point you most likely will want a few of them.

Bottom line, I wouldn't rush with anything. But I would go m15 over m13 everytime.

SpartanAdam
02-02-2011, 09:02 PM
So the reason I asked is that I'm playing 1v1 ranked as Italy to get my 5 wins. Basically there are three kinds of players:

1) Attack early (literally as soon as about 10 tanks are built)

2) Balance light attack, some defense, some economy.

3) Turtling. Minimal offense, high defense, high economy.

Italy doesn't seem to be able to stop much later on in the game, so I've found that you really have to go punch your opponent in the mouth early if you want to win. Typically if you rush a couple of tanks and take out 1-2 supply depots, you'll usually get a few people to surrender immediately out of disgust.

I think the game changer for me was the extra 50m firing radius of the M15 though...

M1GarandGuy
02-03-2011, 02:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpartanAdam:
So the reason I asked is that I'm playing 1v1 ranked as Italy to get my 5 wins. Basically there are three kinds of players:

1) Attack early (literally as soon as about 10 tanks are built)

2) Balance light attack, some defense, some economy.

3) Turtling. Minimal offense, high defense, high economy.

Italy doesn't seem to be able to stop much later on in the game, so I've found that you really have to go punch your opponent in the mouth early if you want to win. Typically if you rush a couple of tanks and take out 1-2 supply depots, you'll usually get a few people to surrender immediately out of disgust.

I think the game changer for me was the extra 50m firing radius of the M15 though... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


in a way i do "punch the players in the mouth". but in general with italy, as long as you have an economical advantage, you can survive mid-late game by building nice proto units.

EDIT making sure that he does not make anti-tank base or any other substantial defense

AverageSoldier
02-03-2011, 03:44 PM
Italy is the best harrasment faction. I guess the punch in the mouth I have to offer is depot harrasment or unrelenting agression. Sometimes players loose a large chunck or all their depots (granted they are usually noobs) still Italy does fine as long as they have like what M1GarandGuy said a economic advantage. Which the rare but lovely thing for Italy. You can get use a small amount of units which are really cheap while still getting depots for money. This is hard to do because other factions are usually to expensive to continue a form of production and have depots. I have found myself getting the air units I need, the ground units and depots at the same time. Small very mixed force which gets well supplied. This doesnt happen right at the start but when it gets going it is quite hard to stop.

SpartanAdam
02-03-2011, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AverageSoldier:
Italy is the best harrasment faction. I guess the punch in the mouth I have to offer is depot harrasment or unrelenting agression. Sometimes players loose a large chunck or all their depots (granted they are usually noobs) still Italy does fine as long as they have like what M1GarandGuy said a economic advantage. Which the rare but lovely thing for Italy. You can get use a small amount of units which are really cheap while still getting depots for money. This is hard to do because other factions are usually to expensive to continue a form of production and have depots. I have found myself getting the air units I need, the ground units and depots at the same time. Small very mixed force which gets well supplied. This doesnt happen right at the start but when it gets going it is quite hard to stop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So I was pretty much 50/50 on 1v1 ranked games before I started playing Russia. Since then, I've won 10 out of my last 11 games (and had a "draw" the other one). Russia is, by far, the best harassment nation.

Opening move for me is building a barracks next to HQ, researching heavy infantry while dumping 2-3 barracks all over the map.

Then you send out 1-2 infantry at 5 bucks a pop to sit out front of a supply depot and destroy the trucks as they come out. NOTHING infuriates a player more than you not taking the depot and just raping their supply lines. Eventually they end up sending 3 tanks ($60) to take out your little infantry ($10) and you just go run and hide in the woods or a town. THEN, you bring in a few other infantry from some of your other bases and repeat the process at another depot.


Eventually they give up attacking and just sit there and turtle - at which point the arty base with the heavy artillery comes in...FTW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Donnie_Darko_NL
02-03-2011, 04:56 PM
What if your opponent is not totally ******ed, and just sends a armored recon ($20) that after killing your infantry moves on to harass your depots?

SpartanAdam
02-03-2011, 05:33 PM
Because even with 3 barracks ($35), the heavy inf upgrade ($50), two depots ($80) you still have enough money to strategically place an AT gun where you need to.

But I usually just toss on a blitz ruse, charge the recon and blow it away any way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M1GarandGuy
02-03-2011, 06:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpartanAdam:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AverageSoldier:
Italy is the best harrasment faction. I guess the punch in the mouth I have to offer is depot harrasment or unrelenting agression. Sometimes players loose a large chunck or all their depots (granted they are usually noobs) still Italy does fine as long as they have like what M1GarandGuy said a economic advantage. Which the rare but lovely thing for Italy. You can get use a small amount of units which are really cheap while still getting depots for money. This is hard to do because other factions are usually to expensive to continue a form of production and have depots. I have found myself getting the air units I need, the ground units and depots at the same time. Small very mixed force which gets well supplied. This doesnt happen right at the start but when it gets going it is quite hard to stop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So I was pretty much 50/50 on 1v1 ranked games before I started playing Russia. Since then, I've won 10 out of my last 11 games (and had a "draw" the other one). Russia is, by far, the best harassment nation.

Opening move for me is building a barracks next to HQ, researching heavy infantry while dumping 2-3 barracks all over the map.

Then you send out 1-2 infantry at 5 bucks a pop to sit out front of a supply depot and destroy the trucks as they come out. NOTHING infuriates a player more than you not taking the depot and just raping their supply lines. Eventually they end up sending 3 tanks ($60) to take out your little infantry ($10) and you just go run and hide in the woods or a town. THEN, you bring in a few other infantry from some of your other bases and repeat the process at another depot.


Eventually they give up attacking and just sit there and turtle - at which point the arty base with the heavy artillery comes in...FTW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, to which i totally denied our last engagement FTW! And thats the last time i replace Decryption with blitz -.-

Bamzamma
02-04-2011, 12:03 PM
M15; 2 M15s and a bunker can hold back a whole MASS of M13s w/ inf support.

SpartanAdam
02-04-2011, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bamzamma:
M15; 2 M15s and a bunker can hold back a whole MASS of M13s w/ inf support. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not talking about defending, I'm taking about trying to win the game in under 5 minutes by rushing. You can either rush with 15 M13's immediately or 15 M15's after researching the advanced medium tank feature and taking advantage of the extra 50m firing radius.

I'm sure someone could derive a differential equation and describe it mathematically.

AverageSoldier
02-07-2011, 03:42 AM
Its not the 50m extra range that makes the M15 better then the M13, its the fact it does so much more damage. Stats wise 25 over 15 doesnt seem like to much but on the field especially in swarms they are beasts. New turret, new machinegun, increased speed still $15.

Very great tank, but I feel offended that someone is going around using Italy M15 carro rushes against nooblets and then noobies think thats all Italy is about http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
Oh well noobies are tools.

SpartanAdam
02-07-2011, 07:59 AM
Open up your replays and click "friend's uploads." I got a great Carro rush victory in there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I wish the replay files saved the chat log too. The string of expletives was EPIC.

AverageSoldier
02-07-2011, 08:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpartanAdam:
Open up your replays and click "friend's uploads." I got a great Carro rush victory in there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I wish the replay files saved the chat log too. The string of expletives was EPIC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow great victory, its so hard to carro rush....