Next-Gen Driver Wishlist

[Assaultmachine1]

This is the wishlist for the one Driver game that was announced as one of the PS3's games a while back. Give your thoughts on what you want from this game and hopefully, Reflections will give us a majority of those "good" ideas that we may have in mind, so without further ado, this is right place for discussing what new or old and returning gameplay features should be in Driver and explaining it with a good detail of reasoning will help even more since Reflections can get a better logical explanation of why it is that they should try to implement that feature or set of features into the next Driver game.

[Assaultmachine1]

This is the wishlist for the one Driver game that was announced as one of the PS3's games a while back. Give your thoughts on what you want from this game and hopefully, Reflections will give us a majority of those "good" ideas that we may have in mind, so without further ado, this is right place for discussing what new or old and returning gameplay features should be in Driver and explaining it with a good detail of reasoning will help even more since Reflections can get a better logical explanation of why it is that they should try to implement that feature or set of features into the next Driver game.

[Slayer_591]

Film Director!!!

[Assaultmachine1]

Yes. Film Director has been one of the biggest factors coming from the Driver series, so we must ask Reflections to bring it back and have it be better than even that of the original Driver game.

Tanner must return as well and be engaged in the biggest hollywood-styled car chase game to date, which is my hope. It must offer as many of the favorite vehicles from the previous Driver games and even many new ones as well, having the roster be at least 100 vehicles, so it will be larger than that of even DPL's roster. The original Driver's formula must be used once again, displaying the awesome physics of it and even so much greater damage to not only the vehicles, but also the environment and every object found in the game (even living things).

I hope that the on-foot will finally take a big leap and have many changes for it in store that are to add more realism and a greater replay value while also making it less of a rip-off coming from GTAIV. Realism must try to fit into every possible feature and thing within the game. The city must feel alive, having realistic animations, incredible AI, especially for cops, and even simulation for driving that will make taking care of your rides a challenge while also giving you more freedom on what to do with it. As I pointed out in a different discussion/thread, the on-foot is not the only form of free-roaming that there is; Driving can be done in such a way too, but it must be more complex and this means that there must be a great deal of time spent on this.

Graphics must go as ever close to looking as great as that of Forza Motorsport 2, Halo 3, Crysis, Gran Turismo 5, Resident Evil 5, and any other games of the future.

A steering wheel as an option for playing the game would be nice and maybe a dashboard view could be a part of the driving experience as well.

There need to be more than 30 missions this time. I'm tired of seeing only 30 missions because it doesn't feel like it's enough and so much more can be put into making a great and compelling experience for the narrative side of the game too. Rockstar North is making sure to put the focus on the narrative and storytelling while offering players more choices and freedom, which is what the Driver series needs to do too, but in a fashion of its own that captures that hollywood chase experience and even has awesome stunts, shooting, explosions, and other stuff to go along with it.

Music needs to fit the experience exactly as that of the situation going on in the game and perhaps even for the mood, which is much like what Rockstar North is trying to do, but at least it can be done more along the side of the hollywood chase style as opposed to being a gangster or criminal.

AI needs to be really responsive to whatever occurs in the game and should be able to get a lot of actions that go along with their very own lifestyles. I hope that we see people of different cultures and personalities as well because you don't see such a variety of differences among the society or community of people within the game.

Last, but not least, the experience should maybe look more realistic along the lines of what a cop would live through while working on a job. You should be seen walking in cutscenes to your police department or something and getting an objective from your captain. If you're in a different city, the cops won't know you and will chase you and you'll reach contacts by pay phones, your cell phone, and even by heading over to their place.

[Dutch_Seinfeld]

Changeable clothes and haircuts, to give the character your personal touch.

Loads of car modding options, it should be more like in Saints Row.

Interior view, with functioning windscreen- wipers that actually are helpfull when it rains.

Cars that almost look exactly like their real-life counterparts.

Good on-foot controls and precise aiming. If you're aiming on a tire in D3 or DPL and pull the trigger, the bullet hits the fender.

Stunning AI for the cops, villians and pedestrians.

Driveable trains, boats, planes, etc.

Beautiful graphics, I want them to be more like Rainbow Six: Vegas.

[Assaultmachine1]

When you look at the GTA games and the free-roam genre as a whole, I can see the fact that it's a great genre, but it still has a long way to go. Rockstar North has always been about putting as much gameplay into the GTA games as possible rather than take some time on certain features to make them feel and look as good as that coming from the genres that has always supported it.

I hope that Reflections will be able to get the on-foot free roaming and even the driving free-roaming done right where you have a good amount of different choices to choose from and it is all done with good quality. Perhaps Reflections needs to put the focus more on quality rather than quantity since that may make the Driver games stand out better in areas that the GTA games were usually weak at. Knowing that this is non-linearity, it should offer more choices than what you can expect from a linear game, but on top of that, it needs good quality.

If you look at Cipher Complex, a new game in the stealth genre, it's by a developer called Edge of Reality, who has had experience with several games like Shark's Tale that were about stealth. They've looked at the Splinter Cell and Metal Gear Solid series and while it is about sneaking upto your opponent, the team thinks that the player should react a little more fast this time, so the game will allow you to perform combos of killing opponents as you sneak upto them and try your best to kill them as soon as possible. It kind of gives you that arcade experience and particulary the fighting genre experience since you're trying to keep moving as fast as you possibly can. It offers a sort of brawler style to it since you don't use guns in the game and because it is different from the other stealth games, it may turn out to bring a big new impact to the stealth genre. I'm very excited about this new approach that
Edge of Reality is attempting to make.

My point is that after sometime, whether it's soon or long after, a genre needs to take a new leap because the real purpose of what art is usually about is to try to attempt and do something new for a change. Reflections should attempt to make the on-foot experience as good in ways of getting around (different kinds of transportation and abilities such as jumping rolling, crawling, swimming, climbing, etc.), shooting anyone (having a good fps targeting system, good controls, and good weapons), the camera view that it uses (whether it's first-person, over-the-shoulder, or third person view), and it must also offer a good variety of other things, but those things must be done in Reflections' own style as to what kind of city they want for the players and it must not go over as much ideas pouring into the GTA, where most of the gameplay just looks more lame than the rest of it as in comparance to that of the games from any other different genre that have almost perfected those similar ideas.

Driving is another way of free-roam and that can be done for ways of getting around to anywhere in the game (by land, air, or water), taking good care of your vehicle by fixing it and keeping it in good condition, and having a good selection of different customizable parts to buy for that particular vehicle, which should be for possibly every type of vehicle in the game (even aircraft and watercraft).

Here's a set of different ideas that have to do with the driving factor and how it can be used in free-roaming (this comes from a post that I made in another thread):

I believe that Reflections should explore more ideas of what can be done when driving a vehicle in the game. I've mentioned this before, and that was for the ability to use headlights, turn on/off windshield wipers, turn left or right turn signal on/off, turn on the radio, and many other features that are left to a car or other vehicle in the game. We need a lot of options for the cars and other vehicles in the game.

For instance, you should be able to get your car dirty after a big splash of mud and be able to go to a place like a car wash to get it looking nice and good. It would appear shiny and beautiful. Taking your cars and customizing them to look great is not the only way that it should be for when trying to make your car look good. There should be specific conditions for your vehicles like them becoming rusty, some problems with something that can affect the driving, and even getting your car dirty. There should be ways of taking care of your vehicles and it shouldn't be necessarily an easy thing to get done. This is when the real-life driving simulation elements come into play.

Being able to fix up your car yourself with the help of the right tools, going to stores for buying auto parts, tools, and other stuff for your vehicle(s) would be a nice addition. You should even be able to drive realistic in terms of road conditions (construction that's going on), weather conditions (rain, snow, etc.), and on any other surface that you can possibly drive on. Also, there should be a way to park your vehicle in a realistic way. For instance, when parking your vehicle going uphill with a curb, you point your car's wheels away from the curb while you would point it toward the curb when going downhill or even without a curb for both uphill and downhill. Even the traffic laws and conditions should act far more realistic than they have done in the previous Driver games.

[Dutch_Seinfeld]

You've made some very good points here, Assaultmachine1. I really liked the ideas about the more realistic car-features.

[Driverman2006]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dutch_Seinfeld:
Changeable clothes and haircuts, to give the character your personal touch.

Loads of car modding options, it should be more like in Saints Row.

Interior view, with functioning windscreen- wipers that actually are helpfull when it rains.

Cars that almost look exactly like their real-life counterparts.

Good on-foot controls and precise aiming. If you're aiming on a tire in D3 or DPL and pull the trigger, the bullet hits the fender.

Stunning AI for the cops, villians and pedestrians.

Driveable trains, boats, planes, etc.

Beautiful graphics, I want them to be more like Rainbow Six: Vegas. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree with all of this 100%!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

[Assaultmachine1]

I wonder where Matt_jon is since he hasn't been on for sometime. I guess that's because he's busy. And the reason why I'm talking about this is because I know at often times that he mentions good points about what could and probably should be done for the Driver franchise.

[Dutch_Seinfeld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Driverman2006:

I agree with all of this 100%!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

THANKS! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Slayer_591]

I feel kinda left out since I can't think of a good idea for Driver. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
But at least some of the stuff I would want in Driver is being said.

But I guess I'll go back to creating my ideal DrIVer cover.

[Dutch_Seinfeld]

I'm sure your DrIVer cover is gonna' look great!

[Assaultmachine1]

Do you guys know what I just noticed? If you look at any movie with car chases, the majority of it is an action movie, so that's why you could only consider the Hollywood Car Chase a sub-genre rather than a genre. This means that if the Driver series were to only focus on car chases, the game wouldn't feel complete with the best experience. Therefore, Reflections must try to make the closest experience ever to that of an action film that contain car chases.

Reflections must make the best explosions, crashes, shooting, narrative, dialogue, vehicles, characters, weapons, and all else that would be suited for an action game filled with car chases. I hope that Reflections can make the experience as ever best in all of these categories out of what they get to use towards the development of the next-gen Driver game. I haven't been able to think and realise this before, so that's why I was wrong about the game being only needed to have the focus be on the car chases. Leaving out the action or the car chases, either one of them, it would really mess up the game, so both of these factors must be in the Driver series and should be as ever close to looking like those movies.

Tanner needs to return in the next Driver game, so Reflections can try to finish him throughout his time in the Driver series. D3 was not a good ending for Tanner. We need at least one more Driver game with Tanner in it. Personally, I don't find it a good idea to always be sticking with Tanner, but having at least one more game with him would be a good idea. If I may say so, it would be a cool idea to go with a gangster for the Driver series in the future, but lets not have it be T.K. because he's a dork for a character and we need someone that is a lot better than that. I think that the gangster touch to the Driver series would be a pretty good idea since you are dealing with gangsters in the games and it would be another new look for the Driver series, but for now, lets have Reflections try to fix the Driver formula and push the action to a whole new level.

Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, and many other crime films really get me thinking that the Driver series needs some of the elements from those films and along with that, we need the elements from movies dealing with law enforcement as well. Maybe instead of having only a gangster be available for a Driver game, we can have a law enforcer as well and have them both start off young, so Reflections can move the series into a new direction and be able to feel fresh at that point.

[InsaneDriver06]

There's only so many ways to make a fun, action packed driving stunt game. Hopefully, Reflections will drastically improve the formula with some fast paced driving, interior dash views, and plenty of camera options, gameplay options (weather, cops, crowds, traffic, damage, ammo, etc.)

[Assaultmachine1]

Yes. The ideas will continue to grow, especially for games with a similar style as that of both the Driver series and the GTA games. There are still many things that Reflections needs to get done right and the 7th generation will hopefully be able to help them prepare for a fresh and fun new experience for the Driver series.

One of the mistakes that I hope doesn't happen again with the Driver games is seeing Reflections make a game that is too similar to that of GTA. I want them to be able to change several things that were done in the GTA games, especially GTAIV and be able to make a much better job while they're at it.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assaultmachine1:
Yes. The ideas will continue to grow, especially for games with a similar style as that of both the Driver series and the GTA games. There are still many things that Reflections needs to get done right and the 7th generation will hopefully be able to help them prepare for a fresh and fun new experience for the Driver series.

One of the mistakes that I hope doesn't happen again with the Driver games is seeing Reflections make a game that is too similar to that of GTA. I want them to be able to change several things that were done in the GTA games, especially GTAIV and be able to make a much better job while they're at it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right, Driver 5 needs to be about stunt driving more than walking around shooting and running over pedestrians GTA style, which DriverPL obviously took after in terms of graphics.

Still, if the new Driver (2008 release) can offer an open city experience, awesome stunt opportunities without restricting the player like STUNTMAN did, it will be a great film director stunt game to own for the 360, PS3.

[InsaneDriver06]

[bump]

Driver 2008:

1. Fast, action packed, "barely in control" car chases with as few straight roads as possible, adding hills, turns, drops and road obstacles.

2. A world where car chases is the preference, not shooting at people or tires. On foot chases should lead to finding more vehicles, not gun fights. Shooting out tires defeats the entire purpose of a car chase.

3. On foot so you're not stuck in your burning car that flipped onto its hood. Freedom to jack another vehicle.

4. Interior dash view to experience Driver like never before. Up close and personal.

[Driverman2006]

We still need the guns in the next Driver game. I've seen lots of car chase movies before with gunfights in them. In fact, I want all of the things you can do on foot from the rest of the Driver series in the next Driver game (running, walking, shooting, reloading, jumping, swimming, crouching, and more).


Yeah, I hate it when the tires pop on your car in Driv3r and Parallel Lines. But hey, it's realistic. I still want the tires to pop in the next Driver game, but still have customization so you can get new tires (like D:PL). I'm not saying that the next Driver game needs to be "Gun Crazy", it should just have all of the fun stuff from previous Driver games. It's the player's choice.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Driverman2006:
We still need the guns in the next Driver game. I've seen lots of car chase movies before with gunfights in them. In fact, I want all of the things you can do on foot from the rest of the Driver series in the next Driver game (running, walking, shooting, reloading, jumping, swimming, crouching, and more).


Yeah, I hate it when the tires pop on your car in Driv3r and Parallel Lines. But hey, it's realistic. I still want the tires to pop in the next Driver game, but still have customization so you can get new tires (like D:PL). I'm not saying that the next Driver game needs to be "Gun Crazy", it should just have all of the fun stuff from previous Driver games. It's the player's choice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tires popping is a pain, though Driver PL offers bulletproof tires from what I recall, so that helps.

If they do bring guns back, hopefully the focus remains on driving skills more than shooting skills.

[Assaultmachine1]

It is not a need for us to still have guns in the game, but it would be a good addition.

Do you know what? I've been noticing how many new games of franchises that we recognize so well are taking new paths because the developers are willing to impact the Video Game Industry even more than before. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare will set a new benchmark in the Call of Duty franchise with how it has gone from being a WWII franchise to a Modern Warfare franchise. GTA IV is making many different changes for the GTA series, which may feel just like when GTA III showed up with the GTA franchise being heavily focused on free-roaming and being a 3-D game rather than the same 2-D top down view experience. I can say that there will be more titles along the way, including that of Splinter Cell Conviction, Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, and others, who too, will change the course of their franchise that they came from.

Driver too, had changed, but it didn't change necessarily for the better. If you look at the average ratings of the Driver series on Game Rankings, which is based off of many of the different websites that review games, this is how the Driver franchise looks to be:

Driver (PS1 version): 87.9%

Driver: (PC version): 78.6%

Driver (GBC version): 74.7%

Driver 2 (PS1 version): 70.9%

Driv3r (PS2 version): 59.92%

Driv3r (Xbox version): 59.4%

Driv3r (PC version): 40.7%

Driv3r (GBA version): 48.5%

Driv3r (mobile version): 79%

Driver Parallel Lines (PS2 version): 70.1%

Driver Parallel Lines (Xbox version): 68.6%

Driver Vegas: 55.8%

Driver 76: 61.1%

Notice how the ratings have dropped from since the very first Driver of which the PS1 version looks to be the superior port. It had an 87.9% while the other games fall below that number. Both Driver 2 and Driver Parallel Lines have a 70% while Driv3r falls even below that range (except for the mobile version, which has a 79%, meaning that it was an even better game). Although on-foot pushed forth more ideas, it failed the Driver series for getting any better of a rating than the first game. I am not to say that the on-foot should be removed, but it would make a wise choice to some extent.

The other choice of what to do with the Driver series is to have it be sent into a new direction, meaning that it won't only see its focus heavily on car chases and on some of the on-foot. There needs to be something done to expand the driving experience. I would like the thought of seeing multiple paths and storylines for which can be of your own taking. Unlockables include finding hidden vehicles, weapons, and cheats. The weapons and vehicles would become available to anyone else in the game, so you will later see people weilding those weapons and others driving those unlocked vehicles. And maybe instead of having to play as Tanner, he can be some sort of an unlockable at the end of the game. Instead, you should be able to create your own character from scratch, be it male or female, and give them whatever you want for them to wear. You will be able to take that character and build them into an own kind of person that you feel should be made for the game. Clothes, weapons, vehicles, and among other things can be bought based upon what interests lie for you. The character will be have a choice of many different stories to go with rather than just being an undercover cop. The choices would go beyond just that. Have there be the right to become a racer (whether it's a street race or circuit racer of some sort), a demolition derby competitor, an ambulance driver, a firefighter, a taxi driver, or any other possible job. There are many other things that you are able to do for your own liking. On-foot abilities go further than ever before with abilities that will help you get around quicker and more carefully (swimming, jumping, crouching, crawling, shimmy, climbing, etc.) The AI for both when in vehicle and out of vehicle, is far bigger and smarter than you would ever learn to imagine coming from a Free-roaming game. Damage, physics, and everything else of a vehicle would come as close as ever to being as realistic as possible. The pause menu is made for accessing options, film director, choosing yourself a destination, looking at the map, quiting, saving data, or even restarting the game. The front menu would be where you select a profile.

This game would, in the end, be a totally big and new driving experience unlike ever imagined in a Driver game. With all of the many jobs to take part in, having different jobs and paths for those jobs, would make it feel like Midtown Madness, a mission-based driving franchise, the on-foot would feel ever more like that of any other free-roaming game, the multiplayer would be dealing with both the on-foot and driving, and the film director and realistic factors of driving would make up the Driver experience as it used to be, so you get all of this being put into one package for a game. This kind of game would most likely deliver very awesome and would maybe even surpass the original game if its narrative, stories, missions, level of freedom, great AI and realism for the world, on-foot experience, and driving experience would all be taken to the next level. Maybe there could even be a form of co-op somehow. All of this is what must one day make up a Driver game in order to ensure that it is able to go to the top as one of the most powerful franchises in the Video Game Industry, having it square ever more strong than before with the GTA games and Rockstar North itself.

[Driverman2006]

I have Driver 76 for the PSP for those of you who care (I've had it since it came out). And across the map, there are 125 stars (so far, I found 124, so I'm almost there!) that you can collect (it's not manditory). These stars you can find in hidden areas, and some are suspended in the air. With each star you collect, you earn one collectable.


The collectables in Driver 76 are kind of dumb. You can only trade them in the multiplayer games. The collectables can be things like clothing, New York landmark trading cards, badges, key chains, paint, etc. But these don't do $#!+ for the player. You can't wear the clothes, you can't wear the badges or key chains, and so on and so forth. However, you can respray your rides with the paints you unlock. I would've loved to change my outfit in the game. A little mix and match isn't a bad thing. I sure hope you can change your character's appearance in the next Driver game.


Oh and one last thing. The thing about the customizable soundtracks in Driver 76 was a f**king lie. No, you can't upload your songs from your memory stick into the game. Even though the soundtrack is fine itself, you still can't upload your other favorites. Good thing that the next-gen Driver will be on the XBOX 360 and PS3 (hopefully). I have the 360, and I can upload ANY song I want in the world and have it play on the game, regardless if it has gameplay music or not.

[InsaneDriver06]

Next Driver, Offroad Driving Exploration up mountains, hills, rocky terrain, desert, grasslands...

I'd like to be able to change your character's appearance by taking the clothes of fallen enemies, or maybe a store to enter and pick out new outfits, so the character doesn't get visually stale. I'd like to see some race helmets (stock car, formula 1, sportbikes), various types and colors of jackets, pants and shirts, along with hats and sunglasses. Driving gloves too to choose from.

I want to be able to change the colors of every driveable vehicle, including sportbikes, something DPL was very good at overall. The garage was nice.

[Assaultmachine1]

About what the missions should feel like, I'm going to explain it as fast as possible. Basically, you follow a storyline of whatever career you picked and do missions for whoever you work for. Being a gangster or a cop would be two of the many other choices of jobs. In addition, we should be able to be a stuntman, firefighter, taxi driver, ambulance driver, limo driver, demolition derby driver, circuit racer (like that seen in Forza Motorsport), street racer, closed circuit racer (much like in Project Gotham Racing), and among others. Not only should there be storyline missions of those careers, but there can be something for you to collect throughout the city based upon the job of yours, so you can go hunt down rare criminals, kill a certain number of gang members from a particular gang, find any stolen vehicles of some sort, and various other types of ideas that can be put into collecting and finding things around the city within the game.

Realism should play the same role as I stated earlier in this thread of a post about how realistic cars can handle and all the other vehicles should function and be treated exactly like they would in the real world too. Also, the pedestrians, animals (if any), characters, and cops in the game should react and live realistic as seen in most next-generation games, and everything should look and work the same way as in real life (i.e. people walk to work, shop, fight, kill, arrest, steal, die, etc.).

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assaultmachine1:
About what the missions should feel like, I'm going to explain it as fast as possible. Basically, you follow a storyline of whatever career you picked and do missions for whoever you work for. Being a gangster or a cop would be two of the many other choices of jobs. In addition, we should be able to be a stuntman, firefighter, taxi driver, ambulance driver, limo driver, demolition derby driver, circuit racer (like that seen in Forza Motorsport), street racer, closed circuit racer (much like in Project Gotham Racing), and among others. Not only should there be storyline missions of those careers, but there can be something for you to collect throughout the city based upon the job of yours, so you can go hunt down rare criminals, kill a certain number of gang members from a particular gang, find any stolen vehicles of some sort, and various other types of ideas that can be put into collecting and finding things around the city within the game.

Realism should play the same role as I stated earlier in this thread of a post about how realistic cars can handle and all the other vehicles should function and be treated exactly like they would in the real world too. Also, the pedestrians, animals (if any), characters, and cops in the game should react and live realistic as seen in most next-generation games, and everything should look and work the same way as in real life (i.e. people walk to work, shop, fight, kill, arrest, steal, die, etc.). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great career concept for Driver 5. I'd like the freedom to be more than just an undercover cop, like a stunt driver, a race driver, a transporter (like Jason Statham from The Transporter), a tractor trailer driver (like in 18 Wheeler from Sega). All those choices would keep players coming back months later. Great idea!!!

[Assaultmachine1]

Thank you, InsaneDriver06, for the compliment. I'm really sure that with such an idea like this, Reflections would have to use it and if they ever do use it, this concept will help a lot in changing things for the better within the Driver series. The driving factor will look better than ever before with this kind of concept.

Did you know that I had a similar concept like this for a driving game that I was thinking of making? It really doesn't bother me to give out such a splendid idea such as this to Reflections because even if they do use it, I will try to learn even more from it and with that, I'm giving myself even more to know about driving games, which then could lead to an even bigger concept, but, of course, I really like the idea of different driving jobs, different vehicles, and the realism that supports all of that.

[Driverman2006]

I was thinking for over a week now (and this is only an alternative idea). Why not have the next Driver game set in the 1950s (like around 1957)? The 50s had cool cars like Belairs, 300s, Fleetlines, Corvettes, and F-100s. Those cars had cool features like whitewall tires, pastell colors, and fins. So the 50s was a cool decade for cars (like the 1970s-2000s).


So about this idea, I don't really think it matters who you play since there would/should be a character customization system. You play as a wheelman/girl (depending on what you make your character look like). Although you won't be limited to just cars in the game.


The game will have a real 50s feel to it. Like fast food, diners, neon signs, TV, music such as swing, soul, blues, and rock 'n' roll, vehicles from the time period, and other cool things from the 50s that you'd expect!


Now about the vehicles. It should have like all of the vehicles from The Godfather and Driver 2 in Havana. Like I said, the 50s was a cool decade for cars. It was also a cool decade for trains, the steam locomotives were still steaming, but the diesels came to wipe them out (perfect decade for both steam and diesel). The 50s had cool planes too, they still had WWII bombers and fighters, and commercial airliners were becoming to be a big thing. Boats too, sometimes when I think of the 50s, I think of gritty tugboats and hotrod speed boats (depending on the setting).


There should be 5 cities (all of which are perfect for the 50s in my opinion). New York, Chicago, Miami, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles. These cities should extend out to other areas around (states, counties, towns, etc) so that you're not stuck in just the city limits.


The weapons should all be historically accurate. There should be obvious melee weapons, but also revolvers, lugers, tommy guns, grenades, and more. There should still be more vehicles in the game than weapons of course.


So what do you think? Good idea? I hope it doesn't sound too much like a Godfather game. But at least I tried.

[Assaultmachine1]

Your idea sounds good, but I think that we need to see a modern day setting for the next Driver game, especially if it's going to have many careers for you to do along with many vehicles and weapons to choose from. However, it's possible for maybe two or more time periods to be in the game to make it feel different in many ways or we could just have many of the famous vehicles from the past and those of today.

[Driverman2006]

I agree, the next Driver game should be present day. This way you get the old and new. I just came up with that idea because the 1970s and the 2000s are and were famous decades for cool cars, same with the 1950s.

[InsaneDriver06]

The 50's to present day cities and vehicles, with all vehicles from each era would be best overall, giving players more choices, since many 50's race cars were slow and clunky compared to today's, like the Formula One race car.

[Assaultmachine1]

Yes. I must say that it would be a great idea to allow us to have vehicles from that of the 1950's up until that of the present day.

[Driverman2006]

I think they should mostly be vehicles from the 1940s to present day (even more), D:PL did that. Plus, it was like from the mid-1940s to today when cars became cool and in demand. They should throw some 1920s or 1930s cars in there (like the secret cars in Istanbul in Driv3r).

[Assaultmachine1]

Yes, that would be even better. And if you didn't notice, Driverman2006, I've made a topic about the big concept of mine that deals with multiple careers to choose from, so maybe you'd like to check it out and post?

[Driverman2006]

Cool man! I'll check it out!

[Assaultmachine1]

I know that I've mentioned this list in the topic about changes of the Driver franchise, but to be honest with you, it fits well with this topic too because these are ideas, so I thought I'd show them to those other people who haven't yet looked at that one post. Here are the ideas and the text from the original post:

I guess that by mentioning my new concept of having multiple driving careers to choose from would be a great change to consider for the Driver franchise. This is much better than sticking with just one career because after time, the value of the game will go down, but if you have multiple careers to choose from, it will help the replay value a lot.

In addition, we need the following:

- The most realism a vehicle can ever get. The way that all the vehicles function, are taken care of, and how to use them is almost, if not exactly like in real life.

- The pedestrians, gangs, cops, and anyone else in the game talks, moves, acts, and thinks just like a real person. As in GTA IV, people don't look exactly the same. Everyone should also express emotions at certain points of the game and have a unique and different personality than others.

- Graphics should be extremely detailed, from the vehicles, to the people, to the last drop of what's left of being done in the game.

- Many places to explore. We need a lot more places than even in GTA SA or GTA IV for us to be able to do all kinds of things.

- Weapons should be a really large variety, much like that seen in GTA VC or GTA SA. If it can extend further than that, then let it be as big as in Ratchet & Clank.

- New characters and no old ones returning; If the game is going to be centered around multiple careers, there's no point in bringing back old and familiar faces.

- On-foot abilities must be bigger than ever with most of what you could expect as an ability from a normal being (i.e. crawling, crouching, sitting down, rolling, jumping, climbing, moving things, carrying things, buying things, picking up things, and more. Even many simulation elements would not be a bad addition. Infact, if it's going to be your own character, then you should have the right to go eat somewhere and either keep your created character fat or skinny.

- On-line play: We need co-op play and even the ability for other players to play around in the city of the game, where they can do whatever they want, which would be much like that of the San Andreas gameplay. The number of players should be as much a 4-8. Hell, if everything of the game is finished and if a little more can be squeezed in to the game, I'd say that we need as much as 16 players to play with online.

- Create-a-character: this is a feature that I've mentioned before, which would be an awesome new way to use for multiple careers in the game and even when playing on-line with other people. It's better than seeing other players and yourself playing as Tanner or T.K.

- Places for yourself: You should start off in an ugly place for yourself to live in or with little money to find a house that is affordable and small. After your earn more money, you can either buy a new place to live in (house, apartment, mansion, condo, etc.) or build a house someplace where there is room for such. After you have a place to live in, you can buy stuff for it and make it look as good as possible.

- Buying should be an option left for food, drinks, vehicles, weapons, tools, stuff for your home, and more.

This list does indeed have a lot of new changes for what the Driver franchise could take off in using. I hope that we see many of the ideas that I've been able to list here.

[Driverman2006]

Did you guys here about the game "Hei$t"? I read something about it saying that you can actually record your own voice into the game. So it makes it sound like you're robbing the bank. It would be cool if the next Driver game had something where you can record your own voice into the game for the character you play. It might be a challenge to work on, but I think it'll turn out great in the end.

[Assaultmachine1]

Nice idea, Driverman2006. I'm sure that over two years of development on a Driver game for the PS3 and/or 360 along with using the multiple career concept, is what would be enough time to make good use of this feature. As long as the team spends a lot of time on all the different kinds of things on the game, knowing how to change or fix things about certain parts of it, which I must believe is what Rockstar North does to make its GTA games so spectacular, then it will all turn out for the better.

[Driverman2006]

I just came up with another cool idea. We should have on-foot vehicle repair. Like if your car breaks down on the middle of the highway, you should be able to open the hood and fix a broken cylinder or fixing the wheels in case if you have a flat tire. Or lubricating your train if you hear the wheels squealing or if the oil journals are low on oil. This can really help your vehicle out. So it won't get totalled immediatly, you can fix it up yourself and get it going again.

[Symantecus]

I hear there is no film director in DPL!!!

Are they INSANE???

That's the only reason some of us buy Driver!!!!!

[Assaultmachine1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Driverman2006:
I just came up with another cool idea. We should have on-foot vehicle repair. Like if your car breaks down on the middle of the highway, you should be able to open the hood and fix a broken cylinder or fixing the wheels in case if you have a flat tire. Or lubricating your train if you hear the wheels squealing or if the oil journals are low on oil. This can really help your vehicle out. So it won't get totalled immediatly, you can fix it up yourself and get it going again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What a swell idea, Driverman2006. I suppose that you then support my idea of how I mentioned that I wanted to see every vehicle in the game function and be taken care of, as it would be in real life. I've said some details about the idea, earlier in this thread, which I will show in this post to remind you of them and of how a good idea it would be if it were to make it in to the next Driver game:

"I believe that Reflections should explore more ideas of what can be done when driving a vehicle in the game. I've mentioned this before, and that was for the ability to use headlights, turn on/off windshield wipers, turn left or right turn signal on/off, turn on the radio, and many other features that are left to a car or other vehicle in the game. We need a lot of options for the cars and other vehicles in the game.

For instance, you should be able to get your car dirty after a big splash of mud and be able to go to a place like a car wash to get it looking nice and good. It would appear shiny and beautiful. Taking your cars and customizing them to look great is not the only way that it should be for when trying to make your car look good. There should be specific conditions for your vehicles like them becoming rusty, some problems with something that can affect the driving, and even getting your car dirty. There should be ways of taking care of your vehicles and it shouldn't be necessarily an easy thing to get done. This is when the real-life driving simulation elements come into play.

Being able to fix up your car yourself with the help of the right tools, going to stores for buying auto parts, tools, and other stuff for your vehicle(s) would be a nice addition. You should even be able to drive realistic in terms of road conditions (construction that's going on), weather conditions (rain, snow, etc.), and on any other surface that you can possibly drive on. Also, there should be a way to park your vehicle in a realistic way. For instance, when parking your vehicle going uphill with a curb, you point your car's wheels away from the curb while you would point it toward the curb when going downhill or even without a curb for both uphill and downhill. Even the traffic laws and conditions should act far more realistic than they have done in the previous Driver games."

This comes from the 5th post of this thread.

What do you think when looking back at the idea, Driverman2006?

[Driverman2006]

Yes, I would love it if the windshield wipers and headlights can work. Although they should go on automatically at the proper time. It's just that the controller on the PS3 and XBOX 360 is so limited, if it had more buttons on it, then I'd like to have it done manually. But I do love the idea of fixing a vehicle yourself. I also like different weather conditions too. And yes, I do like your idea about having more deterioration in the game, so you could go to a carwash and get your car washed. All of your ideas, Assaultmachine1, are awesome, keep up the good work!

[Assaultmachine1]

Thank you, Driverman2006. And I know that the buttons on the PS3 and Xbox 360 controller aren't a plenty, but there could possibly be an action button that you use throughout the game, both when driving and on-foot, so that you can do a specific action, highlight the action with moving your analog stick up on it (like in the Splinter Cell games where you pressed the X button and held it to scroll down and highlight a certain action. Then press it when you want to do your action.). Even Resident Evil 4 has an action button, which is used for pushing off the ladders in the game, raising ladders, jumping through windows, picking up items, opening doors, kicking opponents, jumping over fences, etc., etc. This is a lot of actions for Resident Evil 4 and it really makes things easier, so Driver could have some kind of button that's used for actions, usually interacting with something in the game. This would clear up the problems of how limited both controllers are. And the rest of the buttons would be used for all the other really important stuff that we've seen in the previous Driver games of both the driving and on-foot.

[Symantecus]

Five things:

#1. FILM DIRECTOR
#2. FILM DIRECTOR
#3. FILM DIRECTOR
#4. Helicopter camera
#5. Side view dolly camera

[Assaultmachine1]

Yes, Film Director is much needed. And do you have any other ideas about what we need for the next Driver games, Symantecus? I noticed that you've only been mentioning the Film Director for some time now. Why not tell us what you hated about the Driver series and possibly even about DPL (besides just the Film Director)?

[Symantecus]

I have no complaints at all about DPL. It is truly a work of art.

I would add more places to go inside of buildings (load time may be required as it switches from the city-external-map to the interior map), but so what...it's worth it)

I hate buildings that are just good looking props and can't be entered.

Trains that can be boarded etc.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Symantecus:
I have no complaints at all about DPL. It is truly a work of art.

I would add more places to go inside of buildings (load time may be required as it switches from the city-external-map to the interior map), but so what...it's worth it)

I hate buildings that are just good looking props and can't be entered.

Trains that can be boarded etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd really like to reach the top of tall buildings, even explore inside for vehicle parts, money for vehicles, then ride off the roof tops. Otherwise, they're just tall obstacles to avoid, like a big box in the middle of the street.

[Assaultmachine1]

Yes. Just as you said, InsaneDriver06. And I even mentioned before about the finding of things depending on the career that you have, so if you are working for the law enforcement, you would go looking through places for any specific criminals. It would make a lot more sense this way along with looking for money and stuff that can be given to your vehicles. This even makes the game feel more original, so it's great to have Reflections consider explorable interiors and many of the outside within the city too, using this idea.

[Assaultmachine1]

I'm sorry for having to double post, but I wanted to just change my wishlist a little more and give it exactly what Reflections needs to take into account for the next Driver game. Here is the recent one that I've made with some changes:

I know that I've mentioned this list in the topic about changes of the Driver franchise, but to be honest with you, it fits well with this topic too because these are ideas, so I thought I'd show them to those other people who haven't yet looked at that one post. Here are the ideas and the text from the original post:

I guess that by mentioning my new concept of having multiple driving careers to choose from would be a great change to consider for the Driver franchise. This is much better than sticking with just one career because after time, the value of the game will go down, but if you have multiple careers to choose from, it will help the replay value a lot.

In addition, we need the following:

- The most realism a vehicle can ever get. The way that all the vehicles function, are taken care of, and how to use them is almost, if not exactly like in real life.

- The pedestrians, gangs, cops, and anyone else in the game talks, moves, acts, and thinks just like a real person. As in GTA IV, people don't look exactly the same. Everyone should also express emotions at certain points of the game and have a unique and different personality than others.

- Graphics should be extremely detailed, from the vehicles, to the people, to the last drop of what's left of being done in the game.

- Many places to explore. We need a lot more places than even in GTA SA or GTA IV for us to be able to do all kinds of things.

- Weapons should be a really large variety, much like that seen in GTA VC or GTA SA. If it can extend further than that, then let it be as big as in Ratchet & Clank.

- New characters and no old ones returning; If the game is going to be centered around multiple careers, there's no point in bringing back old and familiar faces.

- On-foot abilities must be bigger than ever with most of what you could expect as an ability from a normal being (i.e. crawling, crouching, sitting down, rolling, jumping, climbing, moving things, carrying things, buying things, picking up things, and more.

- On-line play: We need co-op play and even the ability for other players to play around in the city of the game, where they can do whatever they want, which would be much like that of the San Andreas gameplay. The number of players should be as much a 4-8. Hell, if everything of the game is finished and if a little more can be squeezed in to the game, I'd say that we need as much as 16 players to play with online.

- Create-a-character: this is a feature that I've mentioned before, which would be an awesome new way to use for multiple careers in the game and even when playing on-line with other people. It's better than seeing other players and yourself playing as Tanner or T.K.

- Buying should be an option for vehicles and possibly even weapons in the game. Parts for your vehicles, too, should be available for you to buy.

- RPG elements and even simulation for the driving experience, not the on-foot, to make Driver feel like it's taking RPG and Simulation features that were used in GTA:SA and changing them to make perfect for the driving experience. After all, the driving experience is the most important aspect of the game.

- Film Director

- Little or no glitches in the game

- Cheats to make the driving experience more unique and a few for the on-foot too.

- More camera views to personalize your style of how you want to play the game. It could be a Dashboard view, first-person view, third person view (with or without the over-the-shoulder-view when taking out your weapons), top-down view, etc.

- Multiple vehicles: Aircraft, Landcraft, and Watercraft. The vehicles should even be depended on what careers will be in the game, so you should see both regular vehicles driving down in the city and even vehicles that have to do with the different careers in the game.

- A realistic day and night cycle

- many ways to customize your vehicles, weapons, and character in the game.

- And even if no more careers can be squeezed in for you to have, we can possibly see people of a larger variety of careers doing their jobs in the city (i.e. a mailman delivering mail, a delivery truck giving a package to the buyer, a real estate worker doing his/her job, etc.). This would push the realism further than ever.

This list does indeed have a lot of new changes for what the Driver franchise could take off in using. I hope that we see many of the ideas that I've been able to list here.

Since Reflections may want to look at this thread the most, I will also include the list of careers that mean the most to Driver because of the action that they present. Here is a list of them:

1) Undercover Cop

2) Gangster

3) Stunt Driver

4) Race Driver (for street racing or closed-circuit racing with motorbikes and/or cars)

5) Boat racing

6) Off-road racer

7) Air Show Stunt Pilot

8) Water Boat Patrolman

9) Highway Patrol Officer

10) Demolition Derby Driver

If Reflections can squeeze most or all of my wishlist in to the next Driver game, which definitely is filled with all the different kinds of things that we want to see in a Driver game, I'm sure that the franchise will be bigger than ever and not to mention that the game will be successful.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assaultmachine1:
I'm sorry for having to double post, but I wanted to just change my wishlist a little more and give it exactly what Reflections needs to take into account for the next Driver game. Here is the recent one that I've made with some changes:

I know that I've mentioned this list in the topic about changes of the Driver franchise, but to be honest with you, it fits well with this topic too because these are ideas, so I thought I'd show them to those other people who haven't yet looked at that one post. Here are the ideas and the text from the original post:

I guess that by mentioning my new concept of having multiple driving careers to choose from would be a great change to consider for the Driver franchise. This is much better than sticking with just one career because after time, the value of the game will go down, but if you have multiple careers to choose from, it will help the replay value a lot.

In addition, we need the following:

- The most realism a vehicle can ever get. The way that all the vehicles function, are taken care of, and how to use them is almost, if not exactly like in real life.

- The pedestrians, gangs, cops, and anyone else in the game talks, moves, acts, and thinks just like a real person. As in GTA IV, people don't look exactly the same. Everyone should also express emotions at certain points of the game and have a unique and different personality than others.

- Graphics should be extremely detailed, from the vehicles, to the people, to the last drop of what's left of being done in the game.

- Many places to explore. We need a lot more places than even in GTA SA or GTA IV for us to be able to do all kinds of things.

- Weapons should be a really large variety, much like that seen in GTA VC or GTA SA. If it can extend further than that, then let it be as big as in Ratchet & Clank.

- New characters and no old ones returning; If the game is going to be centered around multiple careers, there's no point in bringing back old and familiar faces.

- On-foot abilities must be bigger than ever with most of what you could expect as an ability from a normal being (i.e. crawling, crouching, sitting down, rolling, jumping, climbing, moving things, carrying things, buying things, picking up things, and more.

- On-line play: We need co-op play and even the ability for other players to play around in the city of the game, where they can do whatever they want, which would be much like that of the San Andreas gameplay. The number of players should be as much a 4-8. Hell, if everything of the game is finished and if a little more can be squeezed in to the game, I'd say that we need as much as 16 players to play with online.

- Create-a-character: this is a feature that I've mentioned before, which would be an awesome new way to use for multiple careers in the game and even when playing on-line with other people. It's better than seeing other players and yourself playing as Tanner or T.K.

- Buying should be an option for vehicles and possibly even weapons in the game. Parts for your vehicles, too, should be available for you to buy.

- RPG elements and even simulation for the driving experience, not the on-foot, to make Driver feel like it's taking RPG and Simulation features that were used in GTA:SA and changing them to make perfect for the driving experience. After all, the driving experience is the most important aspect of the game.

- Film Director

- Little or no glitches in the game

- Cheats to make the driving experience more unique and a few for the on-foot too.

- More camera views to personalize your style of how you want to play the game. It could be a Dashboard view, first-person view, third person view (with or without the over-the-shoulder-view when taking out your weapons), top-down view, etc.

- Multiple vehicles: Aircraft, Landcraft, and Watercraft. The vehicles should even be depended on what careers will be in the game, so you should see both regular vehicles driving down in the city and even vehicles that have to do with the different careers in the game.

- A realistic day and night cycle

- many ways to customize your vehicles, weapons, and character in the game.

- And even if no more careers can be squeezed in for you to have, we can possibly see people of a larger variety of careers doing their jobs in the city (i.e. a mailman delivering mail, a delivery truck giving a package to the buyer, a real estate worker doing his/her job, etc.). This would push the realism further than ever.

This list does indeed have a lot of new changes for what the Driver franchise could take off in using. I hope that we see many of the ideas that I've been able to list here.

Since Reflections may want to look at this thread the most, I will also include the list of careers that mean the most to Driver because of the action that they present. Here is a list of them:

1) Undercover Cop

2) Gangster

3) Stunt Driver

4) Race Driver (for street racing or closed-circuit racing with motorbikes and/or cars)

5) Boat racing

6) Off-road racer

7) Air Show Stunt Pilot

8) Water Boat Patrolman

9) Highway Patrol Officer

10) Demolition Derby Driver

If Reflections can squeeze most or all of my wishlist in to the next Driver game, which definitely is filled with all the different kinds of things that we want to see in a Driver game, I'm sure that the franchise will be bigger than ever and not to mention that the game will be successful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't have said it better. Sounds like the perfect driving game in my opinion. Now it's up to Reflections to consider want their fans are looking for in the next Driver.

[Assaultmachine1]

In the end, it is a really nice list, but you can find many more ideas that are not just these. Wishlists have so many different possibilities that this is just one of them. For instance, I'd like to add that we need an action button for us to open doors, kick in doors, turn switches on/off, etc. This one button can be useful for doing a set of different actions that allow for you to interact with objects in the environment and it would help save the other buttons for the other things that are useful too. The action button can be used for the on-foot or in the vehicle, where you can do possibly anything that you can think of doing when in a vehicle.

I hope that someone can pin this thread along with maybe even the Multiple Career Concept Discussion as these two threads would be one of the many that are the most important for Reflections to notice and they aren't exactly active all the time, but they could be if they were always to be seen from the start. I will contact this forum's moderator or someone else to see if they can do this for us.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assaultmachine1:
In the end, it is a really nice list, but you can find many more ideas that are not just these. Wishlists have so many different possibilities that this is just one of them. For instance, I'd like to add that we need an action button for us to open doors, kick in doors, turn switches on/off, etc. This one button can be useful for doing a set of different actions that allow for you to interact with objects in the environment and it would help save the other buttons for the other things that are useful too. The action button can be used for the on-foot or in the vehicle, where you can do possibly anything that you can think of doing when in a vehicle.

I hope that someone can pin this thread along with maybe even the Multiple Career Concept Discussion as these two threads would be one of the many that are the most important for Reflections to notice and they aren't exactly active all the time, but they could be if they were always to be seen from the start. I will contact this forum's moderator or someone else to see if they can do this for us. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As long as the action button interactive objects were kept far enough away from each other so they don't create an unintended action to occur, it can work. Another option for ladders, just walk up the ladder and press against it till Tanner climbs up. Push away from it lightly, climb down, push fast down, slide down.

[Assaultmachine1]

As I've mentioned before, the action button can work and when you use it, their would be a highlight of a different set of actions that depending on where your character stands, can do, so if you're by the door and there's even a switch to turn on the lights, you can select either to do something with the door or to just turn on the lights. This is much like the action button in Splinter Cell and it would work well for Driver in setting a whole bunch of actions. Even RE4 handles such a feature very well. Hopefully, with the next Splinter Cell and RE game (RE5), it'll push the action button further that Reflections can work to do even more work on it than these games, making really good use of the button and allow a lot of freedom to the players.

[InsaneDriver06]

Along the lines of RE4 and SCell, the action button could work in a Driver game, and really add to the on foot gameplay, which is just about as dull as it can get in DPL, due to the lack of climbing, swimming and especially jumping.

[Assaultmachine1]

Yes it would and I would like to mention again that we need the way of being able to look over a rail or wall and even point our gun as far as we can in order to reach a bad guy (even if he's clearly up near that of the sky).

[InsaneDriver06]

And hopefully Reflections will offer more than a single camera view for the on foot view. I want at least 3 different views to cycle through. First Person, Overtheshoulder, 3rd person regular view.

[InsaneDriver06]

[bump thread]

What I Want to see in the New DRIVER (360, PS3, PC, etc) 2008:

0. (EDIT) RELENTLESS COPS: The cop cars need to keep the chase going, like from "Scariest Police Chases", or the cops from Driver 1. And no more shooting out/popped tires, which totally defeats the whole purpose of an action-packed "CHASE/Driving" Game.

1. IN DASH CAMERA VIEW as though you're inside the car, on the sportbike. Along with Test Drive Unlimited's assortment of 3rd person vehicle camera views.

2. Improve ON FOOT: Increased abilities like jumping, ducking, sitting down, carry objects, climbing, swimming, rolling, interactive vehicle grabs/holds (on roof, bumpers, hood). More interaction with vehicles. (Again, let us sit down in a chair, bench to recover health).

3. Wide assortment of vehicles: Cars, trucks, 18 Wheelers, sportbikes, aircraft, boats... Formula 1 race cars.

4. RACE TRACKS: Giant race tracks with tons of racing options: Laps, prizes, vehicles on track...

5. Fast, Intense gameplay. DPL was the fastest Driver game. Make this one even faster.

6. DAY/NIGHT CYCLE. Weather effects. Interiors, malls, stores, access to top of skyscrapers.

7. Cities and landscape with tons of variety: Mountains, cities, towns, winding backroads with plenty of bumps and hills for airtime, Forests, freeways, tunnels, bridges, etc.

8. Create a Character: Tons of options. And bring back the "Body Snatcher Cheat".

9. Multiple ON FOOT CAMERAS: Over the shoulder, 3rd person, First Person, helicopter view, etc.

10. Tons of pedestrians walking (like in Radical's Prototype), who each have a purpose and destination to reach, task to do, place to go eat, sit down, catch a bus, etc.

11. Passenger Rides: Allow us to ride a cab, trolley, subway, bus, train, jetliner and more, choosing to either steer or sit back as a passenger and look out the window at the scenery.

12. STUNT ARENA: Filled with Stuntman Ramps, loops, twists, cars to leap over, stunt challenges like "Longest distance off ramp", "Fastest time thru track", "Most flips in air", and allow customization for RAMP placements, loops, track, etc.

13. Unlike GTA, stay focused on bringing everything back to Driving/riding/racing/chases, rather than focus on extras like "surfing the web", "eating meals", "weightlifting", "dating"...

14. Plenty of vehicle customization: Color, stripes, rims, tires, bodyparts, engine upgrades, design your own vehicle, etc.

15. HUGE map to travel across. At least as big as Test Drive Unlimited's Hawaii map of 1800 square miles. But more importantly, plenty of terrain variety and less straight roads, more twists, bumps and turns.

16. FREE ROAM at any time, or choose to start a mission. Plenty of in-game OPTIONS during Free Roam, like COPS on/off, enemies on/off, weather on/off, traffic(none, light, med, heavy) pedestrians on/off, time of day stop/resume, difficulty (easy, medium, tough), cameras, fully customizable CONTROLLER mapping for ANY button or analog stick.

17. Realistic Graphics that push the next gen systems. Classic Driver physics, but increase the intensity. Make the car collisions more dramatic and explosive; vehicle deformation more severe.

18. FILM DIRECTOR, but make it as great as Driver 1's, with tons of options while improving the interface so it's more streamlined and easier to use. And improve the Instant Replays to capture the action and best moments, not looking behind at nothing like in Driv3r.

[JacksonL2007]

The series needs more of a wider genre as said above hollywood car chases is a sub genre. I would like to see a
Skilled Driving, Shoot ehm Up with people interaction and strategy.

As I have said before what is needed is DETAIL DETAIL DETAIL. I want to feel I am the charector while playing the game and not telling the computer what to do. I want the computer to turn round and say look at this and look at that. So you are never just wondering the streets looking for something to do. It need to leave clues for how to get some where to do something. I personally think customizible charectors, cars and safe houses would add so much more to it. And the opertuinity to properly interact with pedestrians.
Style is another big point. Possibly the most stlish setting in a game was the Driver PL 78 era. It was real stylish but not stylish enough. The Godfather Game Trailer was a stylish Trailer. But when it comes to cut scene's Driver PL should real style. There advertising poster's for Driver 3-PL where imence, The darkness of PL's posters was fantastic. The eye catching of the driv3r's posters was good aswell. My personal favourite poster was driver 2's one. With the two cars drivng close together. The first shot in the game was this poster. It was sweet.

But as I say the next Driver neds to be real. I want a life simulator where I am one kick *** driver

[Driverman2006]

One wish that I have for the next Driver game is SEAT BELTS AND AIRBAGS, DAMMIT. Sorry for my rant. But come on, in Driv3r and D:PL, the vehicles should've had seat belts in them, and airbags too (if made in or after the mid-90s). Come on, in one hit, you and your car would be dead if you went head-on. Hell, I live in Connecticut, and we have the "Click it... or ticket" law. In Connecticut, if you drive without a seatbelt, you will be ticketed. I think New York and New Jersey have that law too. So, bottom line, when your character gets behind the wheel, have him/her buckle up automatically. It might take an extra second, but it's more realistic and it can save your life (as well as keeping you out of trouble just cruising around).

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Driverman2006:
One wish that I have for the next Driver game is SEAT BELTS AND AIRBAGS, DAMMIT. Sorry for my rant. But come on, in Driv3r and D:PL, the vehicles should've had seat belts in them, and airbags too (if made in or after the mid-90s). Come on, in one hit, you and your car would be dead if you went head-on. Hell, I live in Connecticut, and we have the "Click it... or ticket" law. In Connecticut, if you drive without a seatbelt, you will be ticketed. I think New York and New Jersey have that law too. So, bottom line, when your character gets behind the wheel, have him/her buckle up automatically. It might take an extra second, but it's more realistic and it can save your life (as well as keeping you out of trouble just cruising around). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol. I'd like an option where if you press a button, you buckle up, if you don't press it, you stay unbuckled, so if you get into a head on collision without a seat belt, you fly through the windshield getting some major damage on foot, or if you pass a cop unbuckled, his lights go on and a pursuit begins. Good idea.

[Driverman2006]

Yeah, BUCKLE UP! Lol!


Anyway, I think you will all like this idea. We should be able to interact with news stands. We should put 2 quarters (50 cents) into a news stand and we can get an issue of Auto Trader or the "Autos for Sale" page. Now after getting it, it will mark locations on the map of people who want to trade or sell their cars. Then you could drive over to see them and maybe make a deal by swapping cars or buying their car. It's very original in my opinion.

[InsaneDriver06]

Yeah, that would give a point to all those newstands besides just running them over with a car.

I definitely like the Seat Belt concept, where you can choose to risk a high speed chase without one, or play it safe just in case with a seat belt on. That definitely adds an element of strategy. Some crappy cars should have missing belts, so if you get in, and the cops pursue, the risk of a head on could be fatal. Definitely ups the tension, and is something I've never seen in a driving game before.

[Assaultmachine1]

A seat belt and airbags feature would seem interesting, but I don't know exactly if it would work with the game at all. It could allow you to take in less damage, but for other times, there could be no time to put on your seat belt before driving as you are in a chase or when someone's in pursuit of you. There need to be strategies of knowing when to use and not use the seat belts. Having seat belts for your character to put on and take time before getting ready to drive would make the game feel too impatient, so you should be in control of choosing to put on the seat belts or not.

Next, as a part of this post, I hope to make another wishlist of my own, using the right features from last time, removing the useless ones, and adding some new ones in too. This comes not only from me, so don't say that I'm doing plaigarism. Here is the list:

- Every NPC person in the game should be able to do any kind of actions in many different ways that include talking, moving, etc.

- Graphics should be extremely detailed, from the vehicles, to the people, to the last drop of what's left of being done in the game.

- Many places to explore. We need a lot more places than even in GTA SA or GTA IV for us to be able to do all kinds of things. The interiors don't need to be a large number, but we should see the garages and the home in which our character is living in. The rest of the game's locations should take place outside, with the use of driving.

- New characters and no old ones returning; If the game is going to be centered around multiple careers, there's no point in bringing back old and familiar faces.

- On-foot abilities should be even more limited, which Driver games always do as a new title shows up. I don't know if DPL's on-foot became more limited than D3's, but we only really need a first-person view within a garage, the home of our character, and in stores for land vehicles. It would make the game feel like it is truly about having you be the driver. Using weapons and other abilities that are aside from driving is pointless and makes you feel like someone else rather than a driver. A gangster was about causing mayhem while going around on foot, which the GTA franchise started, and this doesn't need to be a part of the Driver franchise as it's a strength Rockstar North's and likely won't be crushed by anyone, especially Reflections. Hijacking should be replaced with keeping you inside the very vehicle that you got from the start, putting a great emphasis on the driving, being just as great as in other racing/driving games and not having you leave your vehicle just to search for ones that are not damaged. If you don't want to rid of your current vehicle, warping to a garage of yours or even to a store (where you can buy/sell vehicles and parts that you don't want) for having you take care of anything. (the idea of a first-person view within needed interiors such as garages, your home, and stores was mentioned by InsaneDriver06 while the rest of the stuff here was mentioned by myself, except the land vehicles, which was also by InsaneDriver06)

- Customizing vehicles needs to be better than any racing/driving game you've ever seen. Forza Motorsport 1 & 2's was very deep, even allowing you to create vehicles from anime, movies, or anything else. NFS: Underground 1 & 2, MC3 (DUB Edition & Remix), Juiced, and NFS: Carbon had great varieties of customization as well. Reflections needs to take what already was done from most or all of these games and use it for the next Driver game while also giving us something that customization may have not been able to do yet. (the idea of deep customization was mentioned by Driverman2006 and among others as well)

- Multiplayer: It would suit the game well for all kinds of different careers dealing with driving whether it's online or offline and even for taking a cruise around in the city.

- Buying should be an option for vehicles and parts for your vehicles. Selling is not necessarily a needed option, but it could work if you're looking to sell a useless vehicle or sell a good one for even more money to make and be able to buy something even better. Instead of having only one type of a particular vehicle, there should be large quantities of a particular vehicle (e.x. Tanks can be bought and there are around 300 available currently). It would likely be nice if it'd be an unlimited quantity of vehicles in the game, but making it that different amounts are available at different days or times of days would make it more interesting as well.

- RPG elements and even simulation for the driving experience, not the on-foot, to make Driver feel like it's taking RPG and Simulation features that were used in GTA:SA and changing them to make perfect for the driving experience. After all, the driving experience is the most important aspect of the game.

- Film Director

- Little or no glitches in the game

- Cheats to make the driving experience more unique.

- More camera views to personalize your style of how you want to play the game. It could be a Dashboard view, first-person view, third person view, top-down view, etc. The first-person view should be the only available option for the on-foot and since the on-foot will be very limited, it doesn't need to have any more camera views.

- Land vehicles: There never needs to be any other vehicles than those which drive on land because they suit the driving and chases the best. Also, I don't think that a person would be able to learn so many different types of vehicles in real life, so it would take away the feel of realism, which is not something that we want as we want the game to be as realistic as possible. (Was mentioned by InsaneDriver06)

- A realistic day and night cycle

- Many ways to customize your vehicles, and character in the game.

- And even if no more careers can be squeezed in for you to have, we can possibly see people of a larger variety of careers doing their jobs in the city (i.e. a mailman delivering mail, a delivery truck giving a package to the buyer, a real estate worker doing his/her job, etc.). This would push the realism further than ever.

- Using your vehicle as a weapon rather than having guns needed at all in the game. (A nice feature mentioned by InsaneDriver06)

- Music that fits the driving and other parts of the game

- The ability to fix your vehicles, to wash them (at car washes and other places to wash vehicles), to make them rusty, and anything else that adds to the realism of vehicles.

Multiple Career Paths Needed

1) Undercover Cop (there should only be missions like this involving driving, but you get to run away from the cops and make good money as a result)

2) Gangster (it doesn't have to be existent as a career as it pretty much would anyways be very similar to that of an undercover cop carer, except that you're not working secretly with law enforcement, that's all.)

3) Stunt Driver

4) Race Driver (for street racing or closed-circuit racing with motorbikes and/or cars)

5) 18 Wheeler Transport Driver

6) Off-road racer

7) Bus, Cab, Limo Driver

8) Sportscar Collector

9) Highway Patrol Officer

10) Demolition Derby Driver

Here are the features that InsaneDriver06 mentioned in his wishlist:

- RACE TRACKS: Giant race tracks with tons of racing options: Laps, prizes, vehicles on track...

- HUGE map to travel across. At least as big as Test Drive Unlimited's Hawaii map of 1800 square miles. But more importantly, plenty of terrain variety and less straight roads, more twists, bumps and turns.

- STUNT ARENA: Filled with Stuntman Ramps, loops, twists, cars to leap over, stunt challenges like "Longest distance off ramp", "Fastest time thru track", "Most flips in air", and allow customization for RAMP placements, loops, track, etc.

- Passenger Rides: Allow us to ride a cab, trolley, subway, bus, train, and more, choosing to either steer or sit back as a passenger and look out the window at the scenery.

- Tons of pedestrians walking (like in Radical's Prototype), who each have a purpose and destination to reach, task to do, place to go eat, sit down, catch a bus, etc.

- Cities and landscape with tons of variety: Mountains, cities, towns, winding backroads with plenty of bumps and hills for airtime, Forests, freeways, tunnels, bridges, etc.

- Wide assortment of vehicles: Cars, trucks, 18 Wheelers, sportbikes, ... Formula 1 race cars.

- IN DASH CAMERA VIEW as though you're inside the car, on the sportbike. Along with Test Drive Unlimited's assortment of 3rd person vehicle camera views.

- The cop cars need to keep the chase going, like from "Scariest Police Chases", or the cops from Driver 1. And no more shooting out/popped tires, which totally defeats the whole purpose of an action-packed "CHASE/Driving" Game.

I hope that you guys still appreciate what changes I've considered for the wishlist of mine. I've made on-foot more limited and made the vehicles only be those which drive on land, but pretty much all else is the same. Create-a-character was not included since it gives the impression that you always will see through the eyes of your character, so it's pointless to include the create-a-character option, except maybe if you'll be using your character in online or multiplayer and there, when people see you, it should be your very own created character. Also, I was able to include InsaneDriver06's great ideas from his wishlist that I consider would do very well for the next Driver game.

[Driverman2006]

Wow, what a lot of interesting ideas, Assaultmachine1. And thank you for crediting me about the really deep vehicle customization. I appriciate that!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[InsaneDriver06]

Assault Machine 1, your last post sums up the Driver I'd like to see very well. Nice job!

As far as seat belts, you could press a button to toggle it on or off, so if you crash and you didn't press it on, Tanner would fly through the windshield and die. If it was a slow speeding crash, he'd be injured and would need to report back to- nevermind. Seat belts are something a game like GTA would be awesome for, since it's all about on foot, with vehicles as a secondary option. Driver should be ALL DRIVING/Riding.

[Assaultmachine1]

Thank you, guys for the positive comments on my wishlist, even though it may contain some things, like limited on-foot and land vehicles only, which not all of you would be appreciative if Reflections was to make for their next Driver game. This is probably going to be the last direction that I feel Reflections would feel most comfortable with and make the progress with, so I'm sticking to this.

[InsaneDriver06]

Reflections needs to deliver the best possible driving experience they can. Big changes need to be made if they're going to get rid of the blandness of Driv3r.

[Assaultmachine1]

Yes, indeed, InsaneDriver06, must Reflections present the Driver fans and even any other driving fans the best driving and car chases experience.

I've thought of another way that the driving can be pushed even further. Do you remember in D2 and D3 where there were these tracks? The best example was possibly when, in D3, there was a kart racing track. If we can have various kinds of tracks and ways of driving, it would really help make the replay value stay high. After all, in a city, you should be able to drive, doing kart racing and any other forms of driving. Even vehicular combat would be awesome. When I say "vehicular combat," I don't only refer to a Destruction Derby or to the times when you are being rammed by another vehicle, it can even have a way of equipping weapons to vehicles. This experience would be something like Twisted Metal or Full Auto, except that I wouldn't make this a career. Instead, it'd either be a nice unlockable (for both the single-player and multi-player) and could give a reason why destruction can be a really big point for the next Driver game. Smashing a vehicle into the environment would do some sort of damage, but the vehicular combat experience of being able to pick a vehicle, customize and equip weapons for it, and go out facing either computer controlled opponents or real players, which would make a really awesome experience.

I even hope that we'll be able to drive through many environments found within the game, but not only the outside areas, the interiors of buildings should be available for us to ride through as well. It's been done in movies and I'll be damned if we don't see it in a video game.

With the driving experience and car chases being the majority and having the on-foot be limited to a First-Person view within interiors, there's so much that we can expect Reflections to get done the right way, as a part of its next Driver game and for any other Driver games, until they get to the point of where they can offer on-foot to having it less limited while using it in their own way (don't know if this should be a consideration for sure), but for the most part, I'd want a very limited on-foot experience, which can help accomodate the driving and car chases that it'll make the game stand high with its replay value and realism in the Open-World Driving genre.

[InsaneDriver06]

Yeah, more race tracks to enter would be really cool. I'd also like to ride up to a track and there's already a race in progress, which for the fun of it, you could enter or just cause crashes demolition derby style, as you mentioned.

Twisted Metal would be a nice unlockable.

Midnight Club 2 and 3 allow you to ride right through the glass and explore the interior malls and buildings. I usually ride a sportbike, go into a first person view and pretend I'm walking through the interior.

[Assaultmachine1]

I'm glad you like my ideas. A vehicular combat experience like that of Twisted Metal and many different kinds of tracks suiting different types of races are a must have for the next Driver game, along with having environments that can take great damage, not with the weapons or on-foot, but with the vehicles and the vehicular combat (weapons equipped on vehicles). Now this one of the really great concepts for what Driver can offer to make the driving experience really intense.

One way to call such a Driver experience would be a game with driving, chases, explosions, crashing, destructible environments, driving careers, land vehicles, and the most impressive use of the vehicles in any driving/racing game thus far.

[InsaneDriver06]

Sounds good.

Reflections offers great driving physics that separates it from the pack.

[DriverKid]

I have some good ideas for traffic. There would be multiple types of city busses, emergency vehicles, and school busses. For city busses, there would be the 70's bus (from DPL), the regular busses, the articulated (bendy) busses and a handi-bus (wheelchair access). For emergency vehicles, there would be police cars, suvs, prision transport trucks, and prision busses. There would be fire equipment trucks, fire chief cars, and a ladder trucks (maybe with working ladder). For EMS there would be ambulances and smaller suvs with more equipment. For school busses there would be normal sized school busses, medium sized school busses, mini-busses and wheelchair busses. Also, some pedestrians would be holding things like food, a PSP, or maybe a remote and have a rc car in front of them (that would be fun to jack LOL).
Those are my ideas and I hope Ubisoft/Reflections looks at this post and inpliments some ideas.

[InsaneDriver06]

A few buses would be interesting, along with a large number of 18 wheelers on the freeways (even 1 type of truck model is good enough, just be sure to include them on freeways, unlike most games).

[DriverKid]

I would like to see more trucks in driver. In 18 Wheels of Steel you can actually smash other trucker's trailers off which is always fun.

[Mellizano]

Would be cool to see a car remake of a 1987 Cutlass Supreme http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[PennySillin]

*Biggest Problem: Boring Cities - Bigger cities isn't the answer, especially if there's no interesting places, interaction with the surroundings. I like big hills, small roads, but also big roads for high speed, winding roads, colorful landscapes, creativity, fun places to drive other than streets, etc.

*D3 had near perfect physics, cars flew everywhere when hit, unlike DPL where they just sat on the ground. Mix that with D1 physics glitches as a cheat code, you got a great start. Damage needs to be much better, especially on cargo containers, or big empty vehicles (buses)

*Cops aren't aggressive anymore, and if you were annoyed by aggressive cops in the first game, turn them off, see how fun it is.

*Traffic in DPL was good, a bit crowded on smaller roads

*Un-original cheat codes plagued most of the games, get crazy here, they're cheat codes, don't need to be realistic. A cheat code where you can set up big crashes would be cool, and ramps

*Weather? Where is it? Snow and ice? Spectacular thunderstorms, flooding?

*Destructible buildings would be nice, even minor destruction is a start (more than bullet holes)

[PennySillin]

Reflections, if you read only one post in this entire forum, make sure it is this one!!!

More is not the answer to the problem. Reflections first needs to fix the basics, because if the basics of the game aren't fun, nothing else will be.

Quit saying we need more this and more of that. Reflections can add all the extra stuff after the basic needs are fulfilled.

The main question Reflections needs to ask themselves when playing the game is "Is this fun?" Go over every aspect of the game and ask this, quit thinking "Is this enough?", or "Is this better than GTA?", go your own direction but make it fun.

Old games didn't have **** compared to todays games, but they were at least fun. Every game nowadays sucks. They focus too much on realism and forget the most important part. Look at Mario, all you could do was run, jump, and occasionally fly and shoot fireballs, and it is still considered one of the best games ever.

There is no imagination anymore, what happened?

Be influenced by a variety of games, not necesarily the game as a whole, but the aspects you like best. Even GTA does half the **** completely wrong. Its really a mediocre game. There is no set way to make a game, no rules, do whatever makes you happy and the whole world will love it.

[InsaneDriver06]

Good point about less is more. I'd like to see plenty of driving stunt opportunities and a ton of cops in pursuit, like from the movies, only more intense, faster, bigger crashes, higher jumps, white knuckle speed.

[lb003g0676]

I'd love to expand on the idea of Race Tracks. Perhaps a major side plot for Tanner is weekly stock car racing. And destruction derby shows.

I'd love to see that. I'm really thinkign late 70's cop show here. So that why I'm avoiding street racing.

[PennySillin]

I however dislike the race tracks and prefer the white knuckle action of street racing. Lets not be too strict here, street racing may not have been as popular in the 70's as it is now. But its also not 1976 anymore, get with it everyone. Nascar is boring to watch, and play.

[lb003g0676]

Don't tell everyone else to get with it, if you are talkign in terms of Parallel Lines, that didn't even follow Drivers background.

Yes, I really liek the da of street racign too. But Not ridiculous street racing like as seen in Fast and Furious. I am thinkign classic drag races and chicken challenges, that are more dangerous, and that keeps in the style of Driver.

[PennySillin]

I never said you have to do as I say. People may not like my opinions, but I do, just hoping Reflections likes my ideas more. :P

[lb003g0676]

Hah, well me too mate.


It's true. I just wish we coudl all make our idea of Driver to show each otehr, ebcuase i feel what I'm sayign is beign misinterpretted.

And then classed as broign, ebcuase it seriosuly wouldn't be.

[PennySillin]

I do love the driving sections of Driver, but I think they need to flesh out the gameplay more than that. More than the "well, we'll just give them a gun and thats that." I want some interaction with the environment, people, and mostly vehicles, as much as possible.

Something I used to always say, don't get carried away making the graphics as photo realistic as possible, make them average, cause I would rather have more action on screen in the form of traffic, crowds, intense chases, special effects like explosions and smoke (thick smoke like the fake Killzone 2 video), and be able to reach higher speeds at a constant framerate.

Wishlist:
---------
*Cars handle good in DPL, but feel too light, not enough back end slide on cars

*Let us disrupt the path of target cars on missions

*The graphics in DPL are too plain and are boring to look at, I favor D3's more in depth graphics, made everything more fun. I do like bright colors though, depending on which area of the city it is

*Stick with the 70's, it fits better. But don't be afraid to add secret cars from nowadays either..

*All fences must be destructible, I was driving a motorcycle down an alleyway and wanted to ramp up a flight of stairs, but they were blocked by a fence, not cool. If you can see something, 99% of the time you should be able to go there

*Tons of secrets, cars, underground tunnels blocked by shrubbery, parking garages, elevators that go to the top of a building with a car

*Stuntman-like side missions where you can unlock neat vehicle tricks like an undercar explosion that launches the car up to use in free roam, anywhere else really.

[lb003g0676]

I like the Stuntman Idea. But I sitll wouldn't have it.


I'd say:

+ Go for photorelaistic graphics. So Driver can atleast boast that. And beauitful pristine environments to contrast GTA's gritty ones

+ Busy Packed streets, and by busy, I mean cars pedestrians and objects literally making it chocablock so only optiosn to get throguh is force or stunts. And in contrast really empty deserted streets for speeding down.

+ Animations to rival Assassins Creed, except without the agility, just that look equally as real, with Tanner being clumsy.

+Wide range of vehicles, boats bikes and cars. Cars theme exists, so Tanners strenght is around cars. Special thigns to do with cars, like melle attacks from isnide car, shooting from inside car or utilisign cover... jsut an array of special thigns you coudl use whiel driving top speed, or while in a mission of some sort.

+ Bring back Tanner. He needs to brign the storylien firmly back to Driver relams, TK can tie in, but it's Tanner mainly.

[PennySillin]

Reflections made Stuntman, time to do it justice again.

The drive-by's need some work, theres got to be a way to make it easy to drive and shoot specific targets and aim anywhere, find one Reflections.

[Driverman2006]

KEEP THE NEXT DRIVER GAME PRESENT DAY! Why? Because we can have a $#!+ load of stuff (vehicles, weapons, music) from the present AND past.

[JacksonL2007]

My wishlist

1. Graphics in D3 in-game where good id like them to be atleast as good as that, night should be REALLY dark too, and day should be like D3, only i want it to look like the suns beating down. Dawn is good too. Graphics money for in-game not for cutscenes (comic book strip for cutscenes)

2. None of the $hit in-game music from D3 but although the title stuff was good.

3. Gameplay, please god give me gameplay it is SO boring. Take a Ride mode is just annoying because theres F*CK all to do. And btw reflections i do not want any of ur little side jobs there $hit. It would be good if in the pause menu u had an extras section where u could change options

Dawn/Day/Dusk/Night (if u are making videos in Film Directior)
Cops on/off
Weather:
Rain: On/off
Overcast: On/Off
Wind: on/off
Tornado: On/off (you get the picture all the different types)
Army: On/off
Thugs: On/off

etc etc etc
4: Change Characters clothes also in extras menu. Tatoos and other weird and wonderful things too

5: It would be good if as you complete missions time moves on. If the story accomedates it, years could pass by.

6: Let us get to know Tanner, Max Payne really let u see a character. Tanner is not a tough man hes a quick witted, smart ar$e driver. This would be good

7: In dash view and first person view (but be half decent like the ones in army games)

8: Film director should have all the previous features only u should beable to chop and change what part of the videos u want and u should beable to put titles in it and credits aswell as effects such as time effects and bable to have more than one viedeo playing at once. (or the same video but different parts) it should be displayed like the start of DPL.

9: We should have co-ordinated chase scenes for some missions like in stuntman only there should be a lot happening on the screen like in stuntman 2.

10: Huge Enviroment with different ethnics on each places. Seperated by water

[Driverman2006]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JacksonL2007:
My wishlist

1. Graphics in D3 in-game where good id like them to be atleast as good as that, night should be REALLY dark too, and day should be like D3, only i want it to look like the suns beating down. Dawn is good too. Graphics money for in-game not for cutscenes (comic book strip for cutscenes)

2. None of the $hit in-game music from D3 but although the title stuff was good.

3. Gameplay, please god give me gameplay it is SO boring. Take a Ride mode is just annoying because theres F*CK all to do. And btw reflections i do not want any of ur little side jobs there $hit. It would be good if in the pause menu u had an extras section where u could change options

Dawn/Day/Dusk/Night (if u are making videos in Film Directior)
Cops on/off
Weather:
Rain: On/off
Overcast: On/Off
Wind: on/off
Tornado: On/off (you get the picture all the different types)
Army: On/off
Thugs: On/off

etc etc etc
4: Change Characters clothes also in extras menu. Tatoos and other weird and wonderful things too

5: It would be good if as you complete missions time moves on. If the story accomedates it, years could pass by.

6: Let us get to know Tanner, Max Payne really let u see a character. Tanner is not a tough man hes a quick witted, smart ar$e driver. This would be good

7: In dash view and first person view (but be half decent like the ones in army games)

8: Film director should have all the previous features only u should beable to chop and change what part of the videos u want and u should beable to put titles in it and credits aswell as effects such as time effects and bable to have more than one viedeo playing at once. (or the same video but different parts) it should be displayed like the start of DPL.

9: We should have co-ordinated chase scenes for some missions like in stuntman only there should be a lot happening on the screen like in stuntman 2.

10: Huge Enviroment with different ethnics on each places. Seperated by water </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My reactions to what you said are:

1. I think the comic book style cutscenes were good in Driver 76, but I would highly suggest they don't do that. And Driver 76 was a PSP game. You can't get real graphical with that. I hope they build the next Driver game's cutscene and graphics on the same graphics engine that they made D:PL's 2006 cutscenes on.

2. I agree, the ingame music from Drivers 1-3 was $#!+ and should be licensed music (and maybe even a custom intro/theme song).

3.About the gameplay, have it play just like D:PL. With no front-end menu. This way everything in the game is there, with no isolation from the rest. And the time of day and weather would be dynamic. But a pause menu is manditory (all games have that and need that).

4. I would love to change my appearence in the game!
5. Yes, let's have years pass by! Although give it a real-time clock (1 minute on earth = 1 minute in the game). This way we can have long days and nights!

6. Now about Tanner, I'd rather have the "Create-a-character" feature. This way we could create anybody. Whether it being Tanner, TK, Ray, Yourself, Bigfoot, or anybody. With create-a-character, I'd make my character look like Tanner, but he'd have TK's 2006 outfit, and he'd have Ray's voice. That would be a cool looking and sounding character to play.

7. I would love to have a first person view!
8. The only way I would want film director is if it would do what I say. In all Driver games, I'd get into a fight with it because it wouldn't do what I wanted it to do. Like if I wanted to place the camera higher or further away, it wouldn't let me do that. Plus, I'd rather have massive traffic than film director (like in D:PL)

9. Co-ordinated chase scenes? If those mean "Scripted" chases, then no thanks. Let my mind map out my route!

10. A huge environment would be great, although being stuck on an island wouldn't be so great. Let's have both continental land and islands (it would all depend on the city itself based on geographical location).

You got some decent wishes there, Jackson.

[PennySillin]

Years do pass by if you play a game long enough. Quit wasting so much time on videogames, go out and be active. You'll regret playing videogames alone all those years later on.

Life doesn't happen on a tv or computer.

[InsaneDriver06]

IN CAR: At least Seven camera views, all varied from helicopter view, far, medium, close, interior, hood, FPView. Offer options to select new dramatic views. Adjustable camera views would be nice.

ON FOOT: Over the shoulder, close, medium, far and FPS views. One camera view stinks, unless it's over the shoulder.

[lb003g0676]

On foot camera should be the same as Gears of War. The only thign that amde that cover system so special was the fact that the camera shook when you moved from cover. If they did that in all games, it would feel so much mreo visceral and real. With all the shaking.

And the cover system should be a lot like Rainbow 6 Vegas.

[PennySillin]

Ugh I HATE gears of war, the shaking is so annoying, the people are slow, as is the aiming. Play DPL, use the grenade launcher on a driveby, its especially annoying on motorcycles, all the shaking I mean.

[Assault_machine]

Yes. The camera from Gears of War is very terrible at the moment that you are running terribly fast. It would've been a lot better to just make it similar to that of most games, even when running. Even Crysis does fast movements better than this. As for the camera views, it should be limited to the first-person, third-person, and a dashboard view. I really don't think that the other cameras that have been around for racing games and driving games were very good. Instead, those others along with these three, should be considered for Film Director. This especially concerns that one camera which moves to the front of the vehicle and stays in one spot as the vehicle is further up ahead, which is very likely to mess up your driving skills.

[Driverman2006]

I agree with PennySillin's sig. I don't want to be stuck in the car in the next Driver games. Go play Driver 1 if you want that. Give me the freedom to walk around and do whatever the hell I want, driving or on foot.

[Assault_machine]

I highly disagree with your statement, Driverman2006. Look at many of the racing games. They all have you always stay put inside a vehicle and yet, they are still able to implement such features that make it worthy enough. Think if Reflections decided to implement certain features, like going to your pause menu and switching vehicles or teleporting to a certain location, like a garage or dealership. There, you could find vehicles and parts for vehicles instantly. Also, this would be helpful for escaping cops easily. And if there needs to be anything more for the driving, then perhaps many unique unlockable cheats can help make the driving that much more unique.

Another factor to make driving stand out more strong is to implement many realistic features of what actually could happen to vehicles, such being how a car is affected in any weather conditions, the laws of driving to be stretched further, allowing the ability to fix up your vehicle in a garage (through scrolling and finding the right parts to fix it up), etc.

I am far too bored off this competition with GTA. It is unnecessary.

Here's something else that isn't necessary. Too many games are the same these days. The age of physics, artistic styles, and innovative ideas has not gone very far, other than for a few franchises and games, while the majority are just improvements or rip-offs. If the video game industry is to always continue following these ways, it will always seem inferior to the Movies Industry and to any other existent industry, as well as to those who many times criticize video games.

Just as a member of Valve, who worked on the impressive artistic style of Team Fortress 2, a FPS shooter, stated, video games are in their infancy with artistic styles:

"I think video games are at such infancy in terms of art style, actually developing it. We're dealing with 4000 years, really, of art and conceptual design.

For it really not to be utilized, and for the industry to basically dwell in a certain type of genre which has been around the 1980s up to present time, it's pretty much all they're embracing.

It's the same way, you have Star Wars and the original Stanley Kubrick movie 2001. And people embrace that genre of outer space, so to speak. And it's continued to this very day. Hopefully people will wake up someday."

[Driverman2006]

Wait, are you Assaultmachine1, Assault_Machine? If you are, then why did you have to change your name? Your original name was OK (if that was you).


And they will put on foot action in, I know it. You happen to be pretty much the only one who doesn't want it, Assault_machine. And like I said before, stop comparing the Driver series with the "Racing" genre. Driver is NOT an arcade/professional racer game like Midnight Club, Forza, Gran Turismo, etc. Driver IS a free roaming game like Grand Theft Auto, Scarface, Godfather, Saints Row, etc. Hey, I'm only trying to save the series here from embarasment.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Assault_machine]

Yes, you are correct. I am Assault machine. The only reason that I've decided to create another username was because I lost the password and access to the previous username after I told a moderator to suspend it so that I wouldn't have myself be bothered on this forum. However, I've decided to be here, once again, and that I will not spend too much time here. My purpose of posting will be to make as little posts as possible and, at the same time, make the strongest and best posts that I can possibly come up with for the Driver franchise.

As in response to your opinion, the first Driver game felt very much like a street racing game, except that it was about doing missions that had you as an undercover cop. Although Tanner is a law enforcer, it doesn't mean that we need on-foot, nor does it mean that we need him back.

After all, a create-a-character feature is far better suited as opposed to an existing character, which won't support my "Multiple Career Path."

And do you simply think that because Driver is a free-roaming game, it must implement on-foot? I think not. What about the vehicle? If Reflections can spend all the time they need 95% or less on it, they can even make it 100%, if they'd like, and create the most original and unique ideas for driving.

When I speak of comparing the Driver series to any racing games, I have the intention of having Driver expand on the driving experience because that would be such an innovative direction, as opposed to the inclusion of on-foot, which is drove D3 & DPL as well as D2 to lengths that were not needed. D1 is far more strong and has always been the favor of the Driver franchise (of course, not to you, but to the majority of Driver Fans).

Haven't you ever imagined what it'd be like to feel if Driver expanded on the driving experience and went beyond Undercover and hollywood-style car chases, expanding on those ideas and on newer ones, that too, are about high speeds and perhaps even some with destruction?

What would it feel like if we just tossed the GTA formula (as most formulas only make games worse and limited to only the direction of a different game) and went on to improving the Driving experience? It seems to me, that when you support your argument in saying that Reflections needs the on-foot, you are saying that even the driving experience alone, which they've been known for and are experienced at, would not be as fascinating as the approach of in the vehicle and on-foot. It even proves that you want Reflections to make more money than take risks that can sometimes actually help better the franchise.

Lets look at other games that have taken high risks. Team Fortress 2 is a very good example. It is one of the most remarkable FPS games ever and with its "similar-to-Pixar-styled graphics,"
it manages to pull off the graphics in very good detail and it really payed off. The concept for TF2 payed off.

I'm sure that Rockstar North too, when they looked at Driver 2, decided to take a high risk and deliver the GTA franchise in a third dimensional world. It's these kinds of fascinating ideas and risks that help pay off what developers decided as their own direction.

As for Reflections, it's mostly been about money. Of course, they do follow the fans' ideas, but those ideas are often nothing but the same approach to the GTA franchise.

Claiming that you hate the GTA franchise is not accurate you make a statement since you want its features to be extended to the Driver series. This is much like saying that slavery is not appreciated, but we still want to not make people equal, as a history lesson, from my AP U.S. History class, of what I'm currently learning. Yes, we're learning about slavery and women's rights at this point, in the 19th century.

Anyways, by saying that you want GTA's features, you're instantly out to make Driver another GTA clone. I'm so tired off the main directions that games of the same genre, be it Free-roam, RPG, FPS, etc. etc. take and not have high risks be taken.

"If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top."

This is such a good quote of mine, that I've decided that I'll add it as my signature.

Oh, and, Driverman2006. To give you advice on how to know a lot about the video game industry, you should go to the website of Gamasutra (http://www.gamasutra.com/), where you'll learn everything of what goes on in Video games.

[lb003g0676]

No Driverman, as per usual as soon as your das are slightly trehatened you act liek you own rights to Driver:

"I am only trying to save there series here from embarassment"

Driver should be way mroe like a racign gam, and that is where the game gets compared to GTA, which is bad. There needs to be on foot outside of interiors, with great animation and stuff, just so you can get out, to swap cars, and shoot from outside and use the car as cover.

(guns defintely need to be involved, it adds otehrwise little diversity possibility within games)

But the focus needs to be on the driving... completely, as if it IS a racign game, ratehr than GTA and all it's pathetic clones it's had.

[Assault_machine]

As am I, lb003g0676, in trying to save the Driver series from embarrassment. This competition for the best on-foot & driving combined is ridiculous, especially as many games are focused on crime and not some else.

Driver definitely needs to bring up a new direction in its gameplay, mainly that of sticking to driving and expanding upon it with more than just hollywood-styled car chases to make the franchise become more improved and rid of its misery.

[lb003g0676]

Sorry to double post, but kudos to Assault Machine on the slavery point. It's more like saying

I hate slavery, but I want a slave. Which is disgustingly hypocritical.


And it does need deviation from the he general plan of things, it's the only way GTA was different, and if I'm honest, GTA has always been better in terms of that, and they've always had far more innovative ideas (free roam) and Driver has always been a driving game, simple. But now Driver has a chance to slip in something new that tries to redefine or create a sub genre.

Anyway, assault machine, I said this to PennsySillin, and said he may as well wait for the next GTA, because it sounds like all he (and more notably driverman2006) wanted was a GTA game with the Driver logo. Which is just stupid. GTA IV will have considerably better car physics. But Driver has to do something new. Also I'd like to say that PennySillin is nowhere near as insolent as Driverman who I am just about sick of now. PennySillin has different views to us, but doesn't force them down our throats.

[Driverman2006]

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif We can solve this without resorting to a flame war. I'm not trying to shove ideas down anybody's throat. Understand? I'm just trying to convince you all that being trapped inside the vehicle you're driving is not cool. I'm not going to shove something down your throat to agree with me, I just hope I can "scare" you to the point where you can agree with me. Go play Driver 1 if you want to be locked in your car and glued to your seat. In fact, I dare you, go lock yourself in a car and glue yourself in the seat and just drive until you die (which would be in just a few hours if you did that). Wouldn't you hate it?http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif I would. Convinced yet?http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif


Besides, lb003g0676 and Assault_machine, you are the only guys who favor not having on foot action whatsoever. Do you think that would be enough to convince the people at Ubisoft-Reflections?...http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Of course not. PennySillin, Lookatmedriver3, JacksonL2007, InsaneDriver06 (maybe), Driverkid, me, and many others want the on foot action back (sorry if I mentioned your name if you really don't want it, I'm just supporting myself here, as well as the rest of you). Look, I'm an American, I come from the land of freedom, and I want freedom in the games I play. And I strongly favor having on foot action in the next Driver game. Because it will be next-gen and it should have all of the "Good" stuff from ALL previous Drivers. I don't settle for less.

[PennySillin]

I did for the first 2 days. Anyway, from the sounds of things, I don't think you understand what I want in a Driver game. And I'm really tired of explaining it too. It doesn't seem that confusing when I write it, but I guess it is. Time to work on my English.

Look, as I said before, unless you want to change the name and not acknowledge any relation to the past games, everyone will still think GTA-clone when they hear the name Driver. Lets not let those people keep us from fighting back. I never said copy GTA. I admit, I like a few of the ideas used in the game, but I don't think GTA does them right.

I've been playing Driver since the first game, and the freedom of the first game made me come up with ideas for a sequel. Most notably I wanted to be able to change cars and keep going after mine died. Then I thought about guns, cause I had just got into Metal Gear Solid, and thought guns would be even more cool when not following a story or linear path through a gameworld. You don't have to believe it, but thats when I thought of those ideas. I wasn't the first obviously. GTA was out at the time, I knew nothing about it.

[Driverman2006]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
I did for the first 2 days. Anyway, from the sounds of things, I don't think you understand what I want in a Driver game. And I'm really tired of explaining it too. It doesn't seem that confusing when I write it, but I guess it is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But, you sig CLEARLY says "If you want to be stuck in a car, go play Driver 1". How could I go wrong?

[PennySillin]

No I was saying I was being obnoxious the first few days I was here, not that I agreed with such limited ideas. I still am obnoxious, just to a more tolerable extent.

[Driverman2006]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
No I was saying I was being obnoxious the first few days I was here, not that I agreed with such limited ideas. I still am obnoxious, just to a more tolerable extent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Lol!http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

[Assault_machine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Driverman2006:
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif We can solve this without resorting to a flame war. I'm not trying to shove ideas down anybody's throat. Understand? I'm just trying to convince you all that being trapped inside the vehicle you're driving is not cool. I'm not going to shove something down your throat to agree with me, I just hope I can "scare" you to the point where you can agree with me. Go play Driver 1 if you want to be locked in your car and glued to your seat. In fact, I dare you, go lock yourself in a car and glue yourself in the seat and just drive until you die (which would be in just a few hours if you did that). Wouldn't you hate it?http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif I would. Convinced yet?http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif


Besides, lb003g0676 and Assault_machine, you are the only guys who favor not having on foot action whatsoever. Do you think that would be enough to convince the people at Ubisoft-Reflections?...http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Of course not. PennySillin, Lookatmedriver3, JacksonL2007, InsaneDriver06 (maybe), Driverkid, me, and many others want the on foot action back (sorry if I mentioned your name if you really don't want it, I'm just supporting myself here, as well as the rest of you). Look, I'm an American, I come from the land of freedom, and I want freedom in the games I play. And I strongly favor having on foot action in the next Driver game. Because it will be next-gen and it should have all of the "Good" stuff from ALL previous Drivers. I don't settle for less. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you always believe in your life that whatever the majority believes should also be considered as the right opinion? I don't, especially for when slavery was around and many just didn't care for it being around, even the government. Northerners wanted to get rid of it, but not allow freedom for blacks while Southerners wanted to keep slavery. The government also didn't mind of slavery being around. This was what the U.S. was during the 18th & 19th century, until, of course, sometime in the 19th century, people fought to end it once and for all.

No, I'll never be convinced by the idea of on-foot. To put it simply, you're mind has been poisioned by GTA. And maybe or maybe there isn't something one can do about that, but maybe, if the next Driver is nothing more than another GTA clone, implementing nothing new and on-foot being repetitive just as D3 and DPL (D2, in some cases too), you'll see why it was a mistake to think that.

Don't think that because the PS3 & Xbox 360 have so much more power than the Gamecube, Wii, PS2, and Xbox that games will end up that good. After all, there have been a number of bad games on the Wii, 360, and PS3 already, some that even tried really hard at their own job, so don't be surprised if this happens.

From what I recall, Reflections did poorly on going from the PS1 to the PS2 and Xbox, with the release of D3, meaning that this can happen again, going from the Xbox and PS2 to the PS3 & 360. After all, history tends to repeat itself, as will if Reflections doesn't decide to completely remove on-foot and leave it all to the driving portion of the game, which has always been its strength.

And don't say to go play D1, because it's the same idea for asking you to go play GTA if you want more of GTA's features implemented in the future Driver games. And to be honest with you, I'm trying to go as far away from the previous directions as possible. I'm not anymore convinced that hollywood car chases are enough. What one thing that DPL did right was offer side missions like Destruction Derbies and circuit & street races, which I'd find better left as an option of having a plot to follow and together, along with Undercover cop and possibly a few other careers, it can help make players choose more than one choice for when it comes to the story. After all, the story is often repetitive in all of the Driver games, and I think that D1's was the best, for it was about working undercover in the criminal underworld, whereas D2 and D3 went directly to gangs and didn't have the best ideas to go with gangs (who said criminals need to be a part of a gang?) while DPL displayed two time periods, but still had a very similar plot line as games or even movies in the past, of when it comes to revenge.

[InsaneDriver06]

A stunt ring. With lots of loops, ramps, cars to leap, bumps, twists and turns.

[Assault_machine]

Concerning the storyline, specifically that of the Undercover cop, I don't want it to mimic the GTA games or be about gangs any more. It can be focused on a large amount of bad criminals in the city. Definitely something close to what the original Driver game's storyline was like is what I'd consider as the right idea.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assault_machine:
Concerning the storyline, specifically that of the Undercover cop, I don't want it to mimic the GTA games or be about gangs any more. It can be focused on a large amount of bad criminals in the city. Definitely something close to what the original Driver game's storyline was like is what I'd consider as the right idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clearing out Gang territories is kind of like ridding the city of criminals, they only vary in style and age. Gangs tend to be younger, organized crime, older. But that's generalizing things. I just hope the enemy in the game is tuned into driving more than shooting, racing in big arenas more than street crimes. I wouldn't mind if Tanner's main enemy was a fellow race driver he was trying to put behind bars for illegal gambling or something simple like that.

Whatever the story, it should offer plenty of driving stunts and action Hollywood style.

[PennySillin]

Alright then, if you want them to do something new with the game, then lets play:

Worst Case Scenario - Driver 4 is released and the player is stuck in the car:

What do you propose this "new" gameplay to be? I hope its not those side missions you were talking about, cause GTA already did that. Please, enlighten me.

[lb003g0676]

Driverman, your inability to see other points of view is incredible. Or prehaps you just don't read. Eitehr way I want to put my poitn across calmly, so you udnerstand

I want on-foot action. Try and Listen, I never said limited to the car. I agree with the majority of people here, specifically InsaneDriver06, but no on-foot is ridiculous, as is no sandbox. We need both to feel more free.

Why did you put in that little America analogy? It's not like every other country doesn't have liberty and democracy. It's a minority that doesn't. Thats what all the troops in Iraq are apparently fighting for; democracy over there. And again, just read your message back, and try to deny that you sound insolent when you say "I don't settle for less". If the game comes otu and it's not a carbon copy of GTA IV or better you won't be happy, but it's nto liek youc an use... you will settle.

PennySillin. I completely get you, and I think it does need a clumsy form of gunplay in it. But the focus on gunplay needs to eb usign the car intuitively as cover, (from outside and inside the vehicle) as well as shooting while moving.

It needs a Gears of War style shooting and cover system, it needs to feel clumsy and real like GeoW does. And it needs only a small selection of guns.

Now hear me otu on that gun thing. If any of you ahve ever really held a pistol, you knwo it's way mreo powerful than you imagien after using a pistol in GTA. I think if they coudl compeltely make the pistol sound and feel visceral, harsh and powerful, like you can in a movie, then they should do that. Then there will also be other special weapons like shotguns and silenced pistols. Just nto a huge selection, so the pistol never seems to feel acrylic like it does in GTA.


Driver 4 won't be stuck in a car I hope.


The plot shoudl follow his racing heritage. And the old characters. I am thinkign once again, organised crime, liek it was in Driver 1, illegal automobile smuggling, and to solve the case you ahev to ttravel to three locatiosn as per usual. All over the world.

[PennySillin]

I watched my friend play Gears yesterday and that game makes me dizzy, I don't understand how anyone can play it. I dislike the clumsiness, the view of the cameraman, not the player.

One thing that I think is important if they keep the weapons is much more destructible environments. I want lots of paricle effects with little slow-down. Fire that can spread would be cool, but I think it would slow it down too much. Maybe we don't need a bazooka, but its always fun to have when you're messing around. Bazooka can be something you unlock after beating the game.

The only things I want that GTA has is what Driver already does have, only it needs a LOT of improvement. We need fps controls like Black, Halo, etc. The only way I would want to work for a gang in Driver is as an undercover cop trying to bring it down, not become the leader.

My last post was directed at Action Dreamer mainly.

[JacksonL2007]

I think they need to change the plot a little bit, I'd like to see a more detective feel to things. Infultrating a car theif gang for me is pritty $hit.

To have to put another wheelman behind bars would be good. NOT a racer who gambles tho thats just ridiculous, not really what driver is about. Its very serious but the only serious point I dont like is that they made Tanner a hard man in Driv3r when really I think he suits a more comicy roll. Bouncing off the seriousness making it entertaining. And not boring, I'm no film writer but I know how to make something entertaining for the mood.

@ Driverman It was obvious that PennySillan's sig was not about making it more GTA he just didnt want to limit the game even more from its VERY basic gameplay.

Read and understand how u could confuse that one I dont know.

[Assault_machine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
Alright then, if you want them to do something new with the game, then lets play:

Worst Case Scenario - Driver 4 is released and the player is stuck in the car:

What do you propose this "new" gameplay to be? I hope its not those side missions you were talking about, cause GTA already did that. Please, enlighten me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't like side missions and don't consider my Multiple Career Path concept as that because it is an idea to have each career in the game have its own storyline and missions, which will much more differentiate Driver from GTA.

As for the on-foot, as I've been making clear recently, it will need to be reinvented practically, discluding many of GTA's formula, to make myself accept the feature. And more than that, the driving needs to leave DPL's approach and go off to something even more new and original as well. Great physics and damage as well as great detailed vehicles are truly not enough variety in ideas of when it comes to the driving. Even the chases haven't been so impressive with DPL and the driving and traffic laws must be expanded upon more.

As for your post, InsaneDriver06, I don't mind if we have gangs, but I don't want the focus to be specifically on gangs. It should be more about one dangerous person, much like D1 was about capturing a guy named Castaldi. I would want to see a variety of criminals including those who rob places & people, those who took some people as hostages, those who started a riot or massacre, etc. Lets have Reflections become very creative with these ideas to make the Undercover cop career feel a bit more realistic. And the driving missions should be different at certain cases, but many times be about car chases.

Lastly, I'd want to speak about a few elements of on-foot that needs to be improved more upon. One element in need of a new approach is the use of guns. If the weapons will only be similar to that of GTA in their use & their types, I don't want them at all. Second, I want the gameplay, just as someone pointed out before, to have the on-foot, most of the time, related to the driving portion, as it can have something to do with getting to the driving part. I don't know any brilliant and unused ideas so far, but I hope that Reflections will be able to handle this. As for features like simulation, rpg, sports, fighting, and any others besides just action-adventure and driving, I don't see any point in that.

[InsaneDriver06]

Gangs or no gangs, I mostly want a great driving game first, superb on foot second if included. I personally don't want gangs in Driver 4/5.

I like the idea of the handgun having a much stronger impact. I agree holding a real gun and firing is much less cartoony than GTA3's guns, which have little impact. One bullet can do enough damage in reality. GTA3 makes it seem like 100 bullets need to be shot to make an impact at times.

Less GTA Cartoon, more realism Driver's known for, but exaggerated enough to keep it exciting during chases and firefights.

I'd like an option to turn off the onscreen HUD/meter dislay. It's a lot of clutter that spoils the view IMO. Whenever a game offers it, I shut off the HUD.

[PennySillin]

A new approach in the use of guns? What exactly do you mean? Beating people over the heads with them? Shooting a chandelier so it falls on someone (I like this one).

It would be cool if we could set off chain reactions like said chandelier, as in a physics controlled environment, but its hard to think beyond that, other than launching a grenade at a tree or wall so it falls on someone (or shooting a missile at something so it falls and blocks the road)

Anyway, you guys all seem to be fans of the racing segment, something that would interest me, other than street racing, would be rally racing, dirt paths through the woods, on the edge of cliffs, broken bridges, anyway, you get the idea, it would be 100x cooler than an oval racetrack, plus we'd have some sweet dirt roads (something Driver needs more of) through the countryside.

I also like the warlord idea, one dangerous person you're after. And after thinking about it, the whole car theft ring does sound pretty lame. A drug warlord/terrorist organization would be a much better basis for an action game involving weapons

[InsaneDriver06]

I want PERFORMANCE STATS to keep track of vehicle measurements like Horsepower, Torque, power to weight ratio, fuel capacity, performance tires, engine compression, with ways to improve each trait such as buying upgrades.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
A new approach in the use of guns? What exactly do you mean? Beating people over the heads with them? Shooting a chandelier so it falls on someone (I like this one).

It would be cool if we could set off chain reactions like said chandelier, as in a physics controlled environment, but its hard to think beyond that, other than launching a grenade at a tree or wall so it falls on someone (or shooting a missile at something so it falls and blocks the road)

Anyway, you guys all seem to be fans of the racing segment, something that would interest me, other than street racing, would be rally racing, dirt paths through the woods, on the edge of cliffs, broken bridges, anyway, you get the idea, it would be 100x cooler than an oval racetrack, plus we'd have some sweet dirt roads (something Driver needs more of) through the countryside.

I also like the warlord idea, one dangerous person you're after. And after thinking about it, the whole car theft ring does sound pretty lame. A drug warlord/terrorist organization would be a much better basis for an action game involving weapons </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guns should make it seem like you're firing the real deal, up close, where you feel the jolt every time a shot is fired. The impact it makes, to the right area, would be strong like a real bullet, where one carefully aimed shot to a car could blow up the gas tank, put out the driver. Not a fan of tire popping, but it'd be hard to avoid aiming at them for Tanner.

Offroad racing is welcome, with terrain much like that seen in TDU (1800 square miles of forests, hills, cliffs...

[lb003g0676]

Yes the only reaosn I'd want a small selection weapons is so that Tanner carries a mroe realsitic amoutn of weapons and handleable ones. Unliek in GTA where he has a minigun, and that about the onyl way to gte a feelign of power.

The Psitol instead can feel completely realistic, and needs an impact. One shot kill, or one shot and the target is down, althoguh still alive, like in Assassins Creed. And the screen needs to jolt slightly and the soudn needs to echo and around, and send peopel in a running frenzy. Leavign someone screamign and bleeding on the ground. Literally to the point where you don't want to shoot people. I actually feel sorry for people in Assassins Creed.

[JacksonL2007]

The only guns tanner needs is this

A pistol Gangster one
A AK-47
A revolver and a granade launcher.

You could always have other weapons like knifes etc but thats all thats necessary

[PennySillin]

I disagree on such a small arsenal. Its too limited. I want a wide variety, and if they can do that with a small arsenal, fine.

Mainly it'd be focused on explosives, missiles, fire and bullets. Lets not forget melee.

Landmines, like the claymores from MGS, I like those, especially when they can set off a chain reaction.

I also like the nikita missile launcher, how you can control where the missile flies, but make it so we can aim up or down. A stinger would be good for when you don't have time to steer a missile.

As for the guns, I'd like guns that have a huge impact, like a shotgun or .357, semi automatics that fire a lot of bullets in a short amount of time, long range guns like a sniper rifle

Grenades are great, not sure if we need a launcher, unless its gonna launch it 300 feet, or fast enough to knock someone off their feet without exploding.

Weapons that wield fire, I would only want these if the fire can spread and destroy more stuff, otherwise its pointless. I enjoy surrounding myself in a ring of fire, but it burns out too quick in GTA.

Also, the weapons in GTA are unsatisfying, its too cartoony, few weapons do have any power as stated, and I'm willing to bet that will not be fixed. So go ahead, say I want GTA, but they don't do these weapons justice.

And melee, how about a sledgehammer, or beating someone with a stop sign? Cro bar?

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lb003g0676:
Yes the only reaosn I'd want a small selection weapons is so that Tanner carries a mroe realsitic amoutn of weapons and handleable ones. Unliek in GTA where he has a minigun, and that about the onyl way to gte a feelign of power.

The Psitol instead can feel completely realistic, and needs an impact. One shot kill, or one shot and the target is down, althoguh still alive, like in Assassins Creed. And the screen needs to jolt slightly and the soudn needs to echo and around, and send peopel in a running frenzy. Leavign someone screamign and bleeding on the ground. Literally to the point where you don't want to shoot people. I actually feel sorry for people in Assassins Creed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. More impact, more echo in the sound.

----
Tanner's an undercover cop, not a commando walking around with gattling guns, bazookas, grenade launchers, flame throwers... Being discreet is what keeps him undercover afterall. His car is what should do the most damage to the enemy.

[PennySillin]

Some things I though up while playing D3:

* Dump trucks should have a full load in them, be it rocks, dirt, whatever, and you can dump this at any time. Cops on your tail? solution! Makes ramps too
* A zoom mode for on foot, to get a closer look at anything, with or without guns
* A flashlight for dark areas
* The cobra in D3 Miami (secret convertible) has great handling, very fun to drive
* Make cars prone to flipping when t-boned
* More diverse roads, instead of mostly all straight-aways, tightly winding roads, hillside roads, big hills for extreme air, exaggerate how much air the car would get on a jump
* In D3, because the buildings were separately modeled, you can go behind a lot of them and weave in and out of buildings, I like this

* When you get out of your car, there should be health, ammo, and weapons in every area of the game, instead of lightly sprinkled throughout the city, to encourage gunfights. But don't hide them in the open. Inside buildings, behind buildings, on top, in dumpsters, sewers, etc, the more hidden the place, the better the weapon you would find

* The cars in D3 actually sound powerful, very important

[driver_madness]

Yeah, they (engine sounds) sound powerful in driv3r. But don't sound as realistic. I think they vehicle sounds should sound very realistic, I want to feel like I'm watching that car chase in bullitt.

Similar to a few driv3r trailers, it's like the editors of the trailers added in those sounds or something, but whatever it was made it look(sound) more realistic.

Realism is an important part of high speed pursuits or driving.

[Assault_machine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
I disagree on such a small arsenal. Its too limited. I want a wide variety, and if they can do that with a small arsenal, fine.

Mainly it'd be focused on explosives, missiles, fire and bullets. Lets not forget melee.

Landmines, like the claymores from MGS, I like those, especially when they can set off a chain reaction.

I also like the nikita missile launcher, how you can control where the missile flies, but make it so we can aim up or down. A stinger would be good for when you don't have time to steer a missile.

As for the guns, I'd like guns that have a huge impact, like a shotgun or .357, semi automatics that fire a lot of bullets in a short amount of time, long range guns like a sniper rifle

Grenades are great, not sure if we need a launcher, unless its gonna launch it 300 feet, or fast enough to knock someone off their feet without exploding.

Weapons that wield fire, I would only want these if the fire can spread and destroy more stuff, otherwise its pointless. I enjoy surrounding myself in a ring of fire, but it burns out too quick in GTA.

Also, the weapons in GTA are unsatisfying, its too cartoony, few weapons do have any power as stated, and I'm willing to bet that will not be fixed. So go ahead, say I want GTA, but they don't do these weapons justice.

And melee, how about a sledgehammer, or beating someone with a stop sign? Cro bar? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Basically, you have claimed that the GTA games don't use weapons in such a very realistic way and that Reflections shouldn't follow this approach. Then, you are to say that we need other weapons like sledgehammers or stop signs. This idea is, of course, not realistic and doesn't support your opinion so well. Also, I do recall that True Crime: New York City had used many weapons, including the picking up of things such as parking meters and other environmental ones, which really made it seem silly. Tanner (or whoever else the main character will be) doesn't need anything else, but firearms and maybe even some fighting style(s) to defend himself.

As long as the weapons can feel more realistic and can allow you to target things very well, it is all that weapons are in need of, to see improvement. Also, if more can be done, the bulllets should go through objects realisticly. I've recently played COD4 at my friend's house and in the game. In the game you can actually shoot someone through a wall. It's such a realistic and brilliant game. If something like this can be done as well, I'll be quite happy with the weapons, as will everyone else be happy.

[InsaneDriver06]

Against the enemy, I can understand using whatever you got, but Tanner, if he's the star again, is an undercover cop. I can't imagine him beating people out in the open with a stop sign. Funny, yeah, but humorous in a GTA kind of way, which I hope the Driver series avoids this time, unlike DPL.

I do like the idea of finding them in hidden places such as dumpsters, boxes, cases, secret rooms, treasure chests, lockers, drawers and so on. That requires searching. I wouldn't mind finding rare items like a missile launcher or bow and arrow, that would be cool to use once in awhile. I think Tanner could also use a sniper-rifle, a handgun, 8mm, C4, shotgun to find, and maybe a couple others.

[Assault_machine]

Exploration really needs to be expanded upon in many ways, as that is perhaps the main idea of on-foot and without it, Driver cannot be a fun game for everyone. To take the exploration to the next level, we'll need to see many interiors explorable, many interactions with the environment (using on-foot abilities), maybe stores that allow you to buy guns and vehicle parts, garages in which you can hide your cars in (doesn't need to rely on one garage in the whole game, but can even make places like warehouses or other often abandoned areas be the perfect place to stash anything), give NPCs (non-player characters) more intelligence and allow them to be able to do a lot of interacting with the world as well (if not giving as much abilities as that of your character), and something like dealerships for vehicles where you can test drive a vehicle (before buying it) and decide for yourself whether it's right for you or not, are just some of the many suggestions on how to expand on the exploration.

Reflections should make the next Driver game be as close to that of Bullitt the movie as possible. If Reflections can really make an impressive storyline, make memorable moments, awesome car chases, nice shootouts and other on-foot missions, as well as some pretty interesting characters, this will be one hell of a great story, as will the missions be great. I'm too sick and tired of seeing some very unimpressive storylines and missions in this franchise. One of the next game's biggest leaps must be to provide for a much better storyline and such missions that really make you feel as if you're watching Bullitt. If they can achieve this aspect for the Undercover cop career, it'll really set the storyline and missions as higher standards than those of the previous Driver games. Make it feel as much as a movie, like Bullitt, except that don't make very many cut scenes or make no cutscenes at all, and, instead, leave it all upto the players on how they decide to play through the missions. Also, if there are going to be any cutscenes in the next game, which I think Reflections is tempted to use, I don't want any graphics higher than those of the actual gameplay because it'll only have them screw up with the rest portion of the game, as they'll be spending more money on cutscenes than anything else. It's silly to think that cutscenes will do it all for a video game when they just have to work it for the gameplay and keep increasing and improving it per game. There is no other way to provide a better storyline and more original and unique missions other than to let the gameplay take care of it.

[InsaneDriver06]

The CGI cutscenes end up looking better than the actual game, so yeah, no more cutscenes unless they're in-game graphics.

[PennySillin]

Wait, so using a sledghammer or stop sign as a weapon is unrealistic, but shooting people through walls with a shotgun isn't? You need to watch mythbusters.

As for warehouse storage, It'd be cool if you could go into nearly every warehouse in the game, and use them for storing cars and other things. I realize there is a memroy limit, thats where the second half of the idea comes in. Say you have 5 garages to store stuff in the city, if you find one thats located in a better area, you can pause, set it to your safehouse, and if you already have 5 garages, transfer everything from another garage to the new one.

[Assault_machine]

It's not realistic? Oh well. I personally think that it's much better than having too much of an arsenal like that of the GTA games. We really only need guns and combat. It's too silly to carry other weapons around and I just don't think that it seems like Reflections will find that as an important addition to on-foot. Weapons and combat, at this point, are the only things that Reflections must push forth, when it comes to the on-foot's actions towards any enemies in the game.

As I've stated in the topic about the GTA clone term, I hope that more moods will be set for games, and Driver is one of the games that I hope will incorporate it. It needs humor, serious, sadness, and other kinds of moods. Also, it would really make the game feel perfect if every mission would connect to the story and that it has to do with the main point of the whole game. For instance, Driver was about finding and arresting the Castaldi family, so each mission was pretty well connected, in the sense that it revealed more and got you closer to getting the Castaldi family. Sure, it could be said that all free-roam games have been connected through each mission and cut scene, but I think that Mafia and Driver had the best connections. The missions weren't too random, much like what is seen in most free-roam games of today, that including the GTA games, DPL, D3, True Crime 1 & 2, etc. Not only this, but it needs to very much resemble something as close to that of Bullitt as possible, just as the start, for making the plot feel more strong. Maybe it's not such a good idea to focus on the mafia style because Tanner is a cop and possibly will be in the next Driver game, so it should feel how it is to be undercover and represent those moods that accompany such a career for a character. Without very much mood at all, the characters feel very unrealistic and this makes there be less memorable moments. Look at games like MGS, Legend of Zelda, Mario, etc. These games all have more than one mood at some point and this is likely why their plots have always been done really well.

[InsaneDriver06]

Buildings with purpose, so instead of just having an closed up stadium, you can enter and watch a race or participate in it. Instead of just a skyscraper, there's an option to go inside, use the elevator to the roof, and rather than empty stores lining the streets, you can run you car through them or use the door. I'm tired of cities that are just for show, with little real interaction besides being obstacles to avoid crashing into.

I'd like some arena racing, see Tanner's skills put to the test in demolition derby that lasts 10 minutes or more per round, stock-car racing and maybe some formula one races, throw in some MotoGP sportbike races too.

As far as guns, Tanner's not Rambo. Or Arnold from the movie Commando. He needs weapons that are easy to hide, like a handgun or uzi, not a rocket launcher stuffed under his shirt. Once in awhile, fine, but it's not his style in my opinion.

[Assault_machine]

We can either see Tanner as the protagonist of the game, or we can be allowed the choice to create our own characters with tons of customizations available. There is also a possibility that we can see another new main character. Any of these choices feel fine to me, but, Reflections, please develop the next game's story very well, in terms of mood, dialogue, realism, cut scenes (if any), and anything else that I have left out. Having a really original and unique story will just bring Reflections' games one step closer towards feeling extroardinary to that of fans, and maybe even for those who aren't familiar to the Driver franchise or who haven't ever planned on playing any of the Driver games in the past. Of course, when I say this, it isn't easy to make a non-linear game's storyline a good one. Linear games are often times the best direction towards giving off uniquely developed narratives, but that doesn't mean that we'll never see a non-linear game that ever will offer us a very memorable and great storyline to play through for years.

Yes, InsaneDriver06. We do need buildings for us to explore and with great amounts of purposes. If we see any game open to an interior, it really needs to suit a good enough purpose. And we don't necessarily need every interior in the game open to us. It is only important that we see a few of them, for the least, and to have some really nice ideas present which give players things to do that are time consuming. Here are certain ways that Reflections can make players have something available for them to do, when inside buildings:

- buy vehicle parts or weapons
- store vehicles to keep them from being stolen (abandoned warehouses would be the best places for this). Even weapons and health should be available for you to store in such a place (and armor or whatever the health's form is, should work much like in other games, particularly RPGs, which allow you to carry several health items to recover yourself whenever the time is right).
- shoot up anyone that is inside the building
- buy anything else, like clothes (maybe will be available for customizing your character's appearance) as well as health (armor or whatever else you can recover yourself with)
- play on an arcade machine (what Shenmue the game took in, as a game feature, even before GTA:SA was to use it as an idea)
- hidden items that help towards unlocking various things in the game (much like what has been found in GTA games)
- to go watch a movie at a theater (most particularly, car chases and action movies)
- to go to a live event (much like that arena racing idea) and to either watch it or participate in it.

There are many other ways to make players interact within interiors and I think that I'll leave that up to the fans and Reflections to decide on what else should be included. And about having the next Driver's character wield guns, it should felt much more realistic than that of the GTA games, in ways that don't allow you to carry too many weapons at once. Instead, you'll have to go to a warehouse, where you've stored some of your ammunition and weapons, and take whatever you like (having a limit on how much Tanner can carry). Also, just as in the MGS games, I'd like it if the amount of weapons you're carrying would affect your stamina and skills, so if you're wielding a heavy weapon, it would cause you to run slower and your stamina would go down faster.

[InsaneDriver06]

Those are good ideas AM1. Create a character would leave the story open ended, unless they use a male and/or female voice, depending on what gender was created. Silent types don't add up to a great storyline, line Saint's Row or GTA3's main character didn't say a single word.

I'd like to see some policemen patrolling the center of the street, directing rush-hour traffic, or for when an event gets out at the arena.

I don't want to see five stars of a wanted level, where the Swat appears at level five to put an abrupt end to the chase with machine guns, tanks and helicopters. Not fun at all.

Keep the chase going, just add more patrol cop cars like from Driver 1. That was a blast.

[Assault_machine]

The artificial intelligence really needs to be taken to a whole new level in the next Driver game. It was so underappreciated in almost every Driver game. I especially think of this when looking at Driv3r, which did it so poorly. When on foot, the enemies wouldn't be able to take cover, would often stand in one place, and they sometimes, in certain missions, would just stand there, doing nothing. As for the driving, the cops would continue to yell, over and over again, each time you'd hit a vehicle, "The suspect has hit another vehicle." It was so annoying! If you were driving a truck with a trailer attached to it, the cops, rather than going right up the truck itself, they were trying to damage the trailer. This was so ridiculous. And sometimes, the AI, concerning D2, was out of lines. For instance, you could easily say that D2 didn't get enough time for it to be tested throughout, as the Chase The Gunman mission proves. Sometimes, I even was playing through D2 and the vehicles, when in a chase, would catch up extremely quickly, even after a huge crash. I beat D2 on the hard difficulty of cops and in the mission when you have to escape the warehouse in Chicago, it kept frustrating me as the cops were so fast in the beginning of it and soon afterwards, I'd find my car too beat up to continue the mission. It is so unacceptable of what has been done with the AI in all of the Driver games, except maybe for the first game, which did pretty well.

Everything for the AI needs to be pushed forward. The cops, just as in any TV shows that are based on real events, should use tactics and skills of their own (not just smashing into your vehicle until it is wrecked) to arrest you or to take you down. There are a lot of different skills out there to learn which cops use to take down criminals and even though it may be a tough job for Reflections, I'd much appreciate it if they could use some of their time for making the cops incredibly intelligent through this way. One idea of them trying to take you down or arrest you would be to get in front of your vehicle and to stop your vehicle. This is quite similar to the NFS Hot Pursuit games and as one of the skills, it would make the game more challenging and fun. Taking cover and not moving too much around, especially of attempting to gun you down by getting close to you, is another idea to make the AI more intelligent. It's like Gears of War or Mafia's AI, which is more patient and careful, sometimes requiring you to go upto them and kill them, while they're hiding behind cover. Maybe enemies can find weapons on the ground, regardless of whose, and they can take it for themselves to use against you. Destruction in the environment, too, can be a way for your own downfall or their own downfall, depending on what is destroyed, by whom, and how it is done.

Then, just as the AI has more options to use on taking down criminals and even yourself, you would need a plenty set of abilities and skills as well. My cousin did mention how, in Driver, you had several skills to use against the cops, but powersliding wasn't available. Therefore, it's certain that there are a lot of other skills to use when driving and that we definitely will need a lot of this for Driver. As for when on foot, we need to be able to take cover, explore environments, be sneaky, have a wide variety of moves to use on enemies (fighting moves) to take them down.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assault_machine:
I beat D2 on the hard difficulty of cops and in the mission when you have to escape the warehouse in Chicago, it kept frustrating me as the cops were so fast in the beginning of it and soon afterwards, I'd find my car too beat up to continue the mission. It is so unacceptable of what has been done with the AI in all of the Driver games, except maybe for the first game, which did pretty well.

Everything for the AI needs to be pushed forward. The cops, just as in any TV shows that are based on real events, should use tactics and skills of their own (not just smashing into your vehicle until it is wrecked) to arrest you or to take you down. There are a lot of different skills out there to learn which cops use to take down criminals and even though it may be a tough job for Reflections, I'd much appreciate it if they could use some of their time for making the cops incredibly intelligent through this way. One idea of them trying to take you down or arrest you would be to get in front of your vehicle and to stop your vehicle. This is quite similar to the NFS Hot Pursuit games and as one of the skills, it would make the game more challenging and fun. Taking cover and not moving too much around, especially of attempting to gun you down by getting close to you, is another idea to make the AI more intelligent. It's like Gears of War or Mafia's AI, which is more patient and careful, sometimes requiring you to go upto them and kill them, while they're hiding behind cover. Maybe enemies can find weapons on the ground, regardless of whose, and they can take it for themselves to use against you. Destruction in the environment, too, can be a way for your own downfall or their own downfall, depending on what is destroyed, by whom, and how it is done.

Then, just as the AI has more options to use on taking down criminals and even yourself, you would need a plenty set of abilities and skills as well. My cousin did mention how, in Driver, you had several skills to use against the cops, but powersliding wasn't available. Therefore, it's certain that there are a lot of other skills to use when driving and that we definitely will need a lot of this for Driver. As for when on foot, we need to be able to take cover, explore environments, be sneaky, have a wide variety of moves to use on enemies (fighting moves) to take them down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the Driver series difficulty has been mostly based on cop speed and damage to your car, not so much how slick of a driver you can be. Less artificially ending a chase by cheap shots(simple ramming of the rear that somehow damages your engine, cops shooting from sidewalks, helicopters, tire blow outs) and more skill required through cops that use their brains when chasing you.

[JacksonL2007]

I dont think Tanner should be our next character nor TK, They are boring and not really that cool. TK looked better out of the two, I think our next character should look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club, which by the looks of it TK was based on.

NEW character and please dont make he/she ****.

[InsaneDriver06]

Bring back the racetracks similar to the ones in DPL. It was great to drive on a track made for racing, beyond the clustered city streets.

[driver_madness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assault_machine:
The artificial intelligence really needs to be taken to a whole new level in the next Driver game. It was so underappreciated in almost every Driver game. I especially think of this when looking at Driv3r, which did it so poorly. When on foot, the enemies wouldn't be able to take cover, would often stand in one place, and they sometimes, in certain missions, would just stand there, doing nothing. As for the driving, the cops would continue to yell, over and over again, each time you'd hit a vehicle, "The suspect has hit another vehicle." It was so annoying! If you were driving a truck with a trailer attached to it, the cops, rather than going right up the truck itself, they were trying to damage the trailer. This was so ridiculous. And sometimes, the AI, concerning D2, was out of lines. For instance, you could easily say that D2 didn't get enough time for it to be tested throughout, as the Chase The Gunman mission proves. Sometimes, I even was playing through D2 and the vehicles, when in a chase, would catch up extremely quickly, even after a huge crash. I beat D2 on the hard difficulty of cops and in the mission when you have to escape the warehouse in Chicago, it kept frustrating me as the cops were so fast in the beginning of it and soon afterwards, I'd find my car too beat up to continue the mission. It is so unacceptable of what has been done with the AI in all of the Driver games, except maybe for the first game, which did pretty well.

Everything for the AI needs to be pushed forward. The cops, just as in any TV shows that are based on real events, should use tactics and skills of their own (not just smashing into your vehicle until it is wrecked) to arrest you or to take you down. There are a lot of different skills out there to learn which cops use to take down criminals and even though it may be a tough job for Reflections, I'd much appreciate it if they could use some of their time for making the cops incredibly intelligent through this way. One idea of them trying to take you down or arrest you would be to get in front of your vehicle and to stop your vehicle. This is quite similar to the NFS Hot Pursuit games and as one of the skills, it would make the game more challenging and fun. Taking cover and not moving too much around, especially of attempting to gun you down by getting close to you, is another idea to make the AI more intelligent. It's like Gears of War or Mafia's AI, which is more patient and careful, sometimes requiring you to go upto them and kill them, while they're hiding behind cover. Maybe enemies can find weapons on the ground, regardless of whose, and they can take it for themselves to use against you. Destruction in the environment, too, can be a way for your own downfall or their own downfall, depending on what is destroyed, by whom, and how it is done.

Then, just as the AI has more options to use on taking down criminals and even yourself, you would need a plenty set of abilities and skills as well. My cousin did mention how, in Driver, you had several skills to use against the cops, but powersliding wasn't available. Therefore, it's certain that there are a lot of other skills to use when driving and that we definitely will need a lot of this for Driver. As for when on foot, we need to be able to take cover, explore environments, be sneaky, have a wide variety of moves to use on enemies (fighting moves) to take them down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the AI sure could do with a makeover.
But I think this would be easier (less noticed) if you didn't have 20 people in one mission to shot. It's too unrealistic to shot that many people and not get shot yourself.

So make the missions more realistic and just have one of two people max in a mission to kill not 20-hundred.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by driver_madness:
Yeah, the AI sure could do with a makeover.
But I think this would be easier (less noticed) if you didn't have 20 people in one mission to shot. It's too unrealistic to shot that many people and not get shot yourself.

So make the missions more realistic and just have one of two people max in a mission to kill not 20-hundred. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. I rather have one really smart enemy than have to face 100 idiot criminals, though that's fun once in awhile.

[PennySillin]

As far as dumb enemies goes, I'd have to say Metal Gear Solid has some dumb guards, but its still fun. Its funny cause they will walk straight towards you down an empty hallway and won't see you until they are within 10 feet.

Yes, I realize the game was designed this way to make the sneaking around more fun and possible.

But I think its hilarious when they do finally see you, they are so shocked that an exclamation point appears above their head, and their eyes light up like stars. True Japanese style I suppose. I'm surprised the whole background doesn't flash some cartoonish colors flying around.

[Assault_machine]

I wouldn't go too far as to calling them dumb, but it is bad that they can't spot you from far away (except if you're playing on the European Extreme difficulty). Also, they are able to call back up, slice you with a knife, hit you with the butt of a gun, and they are even able to take cover, so they're not exactly stupid. But you do have a point about the humor. The guards are just so funny in the MGS games. Just take a look at the screenshots and you'll agree with me (for those of you who haven't played games from the MG series):

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/mgs2_0221_screen047.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/914828_20041116_screen034.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/914828_20040331_screen046.jpg

[InsaneDriver06]

I'm surprised to see ape escape's monkeys attacking solid snake. Was that an unlockable cheat or just a screen fix?

[Assault_machine]

It's actually a part of Metal Gear Solid 3. I know for a fact that on the second disc of MGS3: Subsistence, the disc being called Persistence, you can not only play a Monkey Mode game (where you must use the Mk22 to knock out all of the monkeys in each level and run up to them to capture them, much like capturing a pokemon, and yes, it's silly, but funny as well), but you also get a Theater mode (where you can view parodies of MGS3: Snake Eater), an online mode, and the original Metal Gear games (1&2), so you get a really nice package for an MGS game. I own this game and it's been perhaps the best time that I've ever spent on alongside a PS2 game, except for maybe the GTA games and I even enjoyed God of War a lot as well.

Not to go off-topic, but I think that we should get a second forum, as a part of the Driver community, where we can discuss anything that is aside from the Driver series. After all, it may sometimes get boring discussing nothing but this franchise and most of the other games that have their own forums not only have a general discussion forum, but they even have an off-topic discussion forum as well, so I hope that we can get one for the Driver series soon.

[InsaneDriver06]

Yeah, like an offtopic forum in the Driver forum.

[Assault_machine]

I hope that the next Driver game will be on par with the GT games or with any other games in the physics aspect. The Driver series has had a focus on both physics and damage. Particularly Driv3r had the best damage physics for any driving game, or maybe you could say that some Burnout game did better. I don't know, but D3 did the damage factor very well, except certain things weren't exactly realistic (like driving a racing kart towards a truck and actually going under it rather than being crushed, which I'm sure would happen, judging by the size in comparison to a truck. Driver's physics were perhaps really good. On the other hand, other driving games had large speeds and other features that make their physics more realistic and exciting. Maybe this is in part due to the fact that Driver focuses on both damage and physics, so this is a broad approach, which didn't allow for the speed and other physics elements to match those of NFS, GT, and any other racing games. We need more than just a lot of awesome damage in the next Driver game. It needs to have some very improved physics, such that are closer than ever to any next-gen racing game. If that isn't to happen, I guess that GT5 will be the best at physics and maybe even the damage. GT5 will have realistic damage, so it'll be a very big competitor with sports cars and this may make it the best games for that matter. Unless Burnout: Paradise could do both physics and damage better, GT5 will be the best at it in 2008. And soon we may see more games that have real licensed vehicles, yet allow realistic damage and physics, which GT5 will make history with, hopefully, as it will be the first game with real licensed vehicles to allow for realistic damage and physics.

[InsaneDriver06]

Driver games usually get the physics down really well, offering realistic shifting of weight, when the car turns, stops and gos.

I enjoy Driver's physics more than Gran Turismos, excluding the latest games I haven't played yet.

[driver_madness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
Driver games usually get the physics down really well, offering realistic shifting of weight, when the car turns, stops and gos.

I enjoy Driver's physics more than Gran Turismos, excluding the latest games I haven't played yet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they do a pretty good job as well.
I think there is still lots of room for improvement. But what if we had Gran Turismo's physics in a city, such as Driver: Parallel Lines' New York. They'd be pretty strange.

The track games and the city style games seem to have a lot of differences.

NFS: Most Wanted combined these a little bit but could have also done a lot better.

But nothing beats a good game of GTR the PC racing game of Gran Turismo. Made by different people of course but runs so much better and more realistic.

Making use of the clutch, break, gas, gears and it really drives very realistic.

Couldn't see something that realistic in city streets it would be annoying, but would be good as an option at the start of the game to have realistic difficulty.

I know I've mentioned this many times but think it would be a great feature for all those car racing nuts.

and me who has a Lotitec Momo Racing Force Pro Wheel which unfortunately doesn't work to well with Driver: Parallel Lines. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Bring on super realism gameplay at least for those with steering wheels as it's very difficult to handle something so realistic on a keyboard or gamepad.

[PennySillin]

The only GT game I've played was 3, I only got it because it came with my PS2, and playing that game was enough to convince me never to play Gran Turismo again. The steering is horrible

Driver on the other hand is near perfect. Its hard to say which game was the best for handling, but hands down Driv3r had the best crashes, cars flipping for hundreds of feet. I'd say the only physics they need to work on now is the crumpling of the cars. Of course, there could be a few minor tweaks to the rest of the physics, which I can't think of right now

[EDIT]
Got some ideas today while playing, first the short one:

*An option that would highlight jumps and alleyways to make them more visible, they're hard to see at top speed. The highlights wouldn't show up in replays. When I say highlights I mean arrows, they could be color coded for jumps/alleys, and anything else that would enhance the driving experience

Film Director:
I think I figured out why I don't like film director today. Its the menu, I hate it, too many buttons to click before you can actually do something. Heres what I propose:

As soon as FD starts, you control the camera with the R3+L3 sticks. All the different options for the camera would be controlled by the click of a button, such as locking it onto a car could be circle, person, the ground, etc. If there are lots of options to choose from, certain buttons would drop down a list of these features you could choose from. If that doesn't make sense speak up and I'll elaborate

If Reflections would do this, I think it would make film director feel more like the rest of the game and be more accesible to people who don't know how to use graphics programs or any of that fancy stuff

[InsaneDriver06]

Yeah, streamline the controls for FD. They're really clunky in Driv3r, 1 and 2. It should be fast and without hesitation, intuitive. I agree that the buttons should represent the actions available; no more clumsy icons.

[PennySillin]

It would control sort of like on foot, only you don't see a character (unless they're in the replay), and weapons are replaced with cameras

I'd like to be able to set up sweeping cameras, it could do a flyover of the scene, all you have to do is draw a line where you want it to go (in 3D), specify if its locked to an object or an angle, or if it looks at several objects.

Obviously it can get pretty complex. Since I never use the mode, I really don't know what else to ask for beyond this. Basically any cool shot you can think of from a movie, or new ones, could be included.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
It would control sort of like on foot, only you don't see a character (unless they're in the replay), and weapons are replaced with cameras

I'd like to be able to set up sweeping cameras, it could do a flyover of the scene, all you have to do is draw a line where you want it to go (in 3D), specify if its locked to an object or an angle, or if it looks at several objects.

Obviously it can get pretty complex. Since I never use the mode, I really don't know what else to ask for beyond this. Basically any cool shot you can think of from a movie, or new ones, could be included. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sounds good. Like FPS view, where you could move and float into the air for helicopter views if needed. The cameras in place of guns is a nice idea. Tripod, Chase cam, interior cam, hood cam, cop camera, etc. And chase cam should be as good or better than Driver 1's, which was the best in the series, allowing for really close-to-the-vehicle views for some great shots.

[PennySillin]

I've just been watching replays on youtube, and I got a few ideas

*Ability to lock existing cameras onto different objects, such as a wheel cam that changes to a tripod when the car gets to a turn, so you can see the car sliding around

*Director Mode - This ones based off a few older ideas, and Stuntman, how it would work is, either during the game or replay, you can pause the action and set up things such as cars that can follow a plotted line at any speed (or accelerate).

You could add sound effects, one I thought of was the police siren, you can make it sound in the distance. You could even make police spawn to start chasing you at any point in time or the city

Add special effects such as explosions, destroy certain cars at any time (such as when a car flies off a hill, or goes head on into a semi)

Add crowds, crowd scatters

Trigger cars to ramp off other cars/objects. Set up sequences far down the road that do not happen until you are a certain distance away

This would mostly be during gameplay, because changing such things during the replay could mess it up. In fact, only aesthetics could be added during replay, music, explosions that don't move objects, sound effects, etc...

It'd be the ultimate directors tool. It does take away a bit from spontaneity, but its mostly there for people obsessed with really perfecting their replays.

And like my film director idea, make it easy to use, like its part of the game. The good thing is you don't need to make replays to use it, when you're bored in free roam, use it to let your imagination run wild, stacks of cars, launch semi trucks off roof-tops...

[kalle90]

Videos should be longer than 3 mins.

More precise and less clumsy movement. More actions. Now driving is spectacular, walking is agony. But only driving a la Driver1 is agony too. "Car wrecked, go home"

Full first person view support. Smooth movement and entering and leaving vehicle like it would be me.

AI boost (actual allies who shoot from car by themselves and help me, and not so predictable or linear enemies or anything) and more of them.

Evening the graphics (generally it looks good now, but all the glitches and completely non focused things should be fixed)

Radio, TVs, advertisements, conversations. Things that make it more real.

[InsaneDriver06]

Expanding on the idea of pausing the game and loading any kind of car/object, it'd be cool if we could pause the game just before we reach a blockade of cars, then insert a ramp just before the blockade, unpause, fly right over them! Stuff like that would be good for a cheat mode.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assault_machine

Posted Sun January 13 2008 12:41
I have a last request for you before I leave for good. Today, I've managed to expand my thinking on the direction of Reflections' Driver franchise. I want you to take what I've written, shorten the length, if need be, to keep the most important key points made, and to make it heard that this was my last idea for the Driver franchise. Please do this for me if you can. As for my future, I won't be having any more hopes for this franchise. Unless the next Driver game, which I won't spend any time reading about because of my disappointment with the franchise, turns out better than we had normally hoped for, I may finally give into having hope for the franchise, once again. Other than that, I don't have any more plans for going on any forums because it just takes up too much of my time. Here are several paragraphs and points that I'd like to make about where the Driver franchise needs to head and about non-linearity as well as linearity itself. Please shorten its length. Look below for it:

I know that I've said that I don't have faith any more for the Driver franchise, but I'll just make a suggestion here, rather than on the forum at Ubisoft forums, where Reflections may never consider my ideas. An idea would be to expand on what it started off with. This means that I'm going to delve back into the past, to that of the first Driver game. It was all about chases, but now, that one form of driving is not enough. More options for driving must definitely be considered. Now, I don't think any more that it needs to be all about the main character. In fact, Reflections could leave no traces of who you're playing as and make the whole game be based on the vehicles. It could become about offering the most in depth realism for the damage, physics, and models. The controls and other functions within the vehicles as well as the conditions of them can be done to such an extent that it'll be just like using a replica of that vehicle in real life (like a Lamborghini Murcielago in Driver 4/5 will be functioning the same way as it would in real life). Making it as realistic as ever would be the first step. Next, the AI will need to be taken to a whole new level. Get rid of the Metal Gear Solid lights of enemies, particularly cops, that will instantly know your location after their huge light on the map gets to your point (of where you're at). This was certainly a very unrealistic aspect for the game. Also, get rid of the arrows that appear on the screen when being chased by a vehicle. This got annoying and dumb. It was very unrealistic. The whole car chase elements will probably need to be reinvented. Everything but the Film Director should be reinvented. The thrill cam is too slow and is practically worthless, not being able to help you at all in a chase. Navigating through the city should be as fast paced as possible, so this thrill cam feature really hurts this factor of speed. As another factor for the Driver franchise, on-foot will really never feel important or strong enough in any comparison to the GTA games. It just doesn't feel right to have this element. The game will need to follow as much of the name it has originated itself with ("Driver"�) as much as possible. I think that many underestimate what driving can accomplish and think that only on-foot could do all of the freedom for them. We'll see how it ends up in Burnout: Paradise, which will have perhaps the best open-ended freedom for a driving only game thus far, so if it goes extremely well, it'll mean that I was right and that Driver never ever needed on-foot from the start. I don't care how disappointed fans will end up if this happens. I don't believe Reflections is capable of anything like this and that they will agree with me on this, but this what I would envision to be the perfect Driver game.

In fact, I know what it feels like to have a franchise turn its direction into almost a completely new one. This is what happened when the Resident Evil franchise has Resident Evil 4 born, which pushed the franchise forward in almost every way, but the important factor that is based upon the whole franchise's genre, Survival horror, the factor of scaring its gamers, wasn't pushed forward any further than Resident Evil remake, which is truly the scariest RE experience currently. This was one thing that I was disappointed about. I was also disappointed that no old monsters would return, but now I've come to accept the new ones, as Raccoon City exploded and Umbrella became finished, so I understand why its enemies are different. All in all, RE4 is truly one of the best directions any game franchise or game itself has ever gone. If Driver was to change many of its aspects, but truly deliver on most of its concept, it would leave all the fans and newcomers (those not familiar enough with the franchise) very happy with the game. Sometimes risks must truly be taken and I'd accept Driver to head into such a direction, especially when its concept has grown so old and weak, as well as repetitive at this point. Unless Driver 5 offers mostly new approaches to open-ended freedom and brings a whole new level of interaction & realism with its vehicles, I don't find any interests at all, whatsoever, with this franchise. And considering the fact that the mature quality of D3 & DPL wasn't so good, I think that going back to a Teen rating wouldn't be so bad. It would, at least, get rid of all the fuss that Rockstar North has gotten itself into with too much mature quality and even for a sex code in San Andreas that made it go to an Adults Only rating. It would allow just about anyone to play and could even be more along the lines of the other driving games out there. I'd be very happy to see the Driver franchise compete with the Burnout series, the Gran Turismo series, the Midnight Club series, the Full Auto series, and all the other driving games coming out in the future. Forget about Grand Theft Auto. It'll continue to push the on-foot more open-ended while Reflections can go with the driving in becoming open-ended. Wouldn't that make more sense, considering that GTA is about stealing vehicles, meaning many interactions for getting in and out of vehicles as well as being a gangster while Driver, could be as simple as about making as much interactions within the vehicles as possible. As I've said before, the on-foot never wasn't necessary enough for Driver as much as it was for GTA III, so it really won't promise a lot of new things and improvements to come. Also, I want to make it clear that I don't only expect vast improvements coming from a long-time franchise, but also a great deal of innovation or new features that will help it distinguish itself more from the other games in the same genre, and, at the same time really helps lend itself to looking very entertaining, thus it gathers more and more fans, creating a really huge fan base, but over the years with D3 & DPL, I don't think that it helped the Driver franchise grow much at all. Perhaps the only time that it grew started off with the first game, as many fans of driving became interested in it. In order for Driver franchise to offer the best experience, it has to instantly allow both casual & hardcore fans of driving games to lend themselves to its game. This will never be possible if it's going to be just another product and having nothing new to offer. How can a game be fun if it offers not enough refreshment of new gameplay for itself? Therefore, I am to stick in the end with the idea that the Driver franchise must only be with driving features and to push that to new heights. Other than this, it is only a dream of mine for changing the Driver franchise and I don't believe, nor should I waste any time any more hoping for Reflections to create as much of this experience as possible because many fans of open-ended freedom are just possessed with the mind of GTA's elements. This won't get anyone far at all.

I'm sorry for the long length.//

You should probably put this in the Next-Gen Driver wishlist.

Good luck with your future.

Sincerly, Assault_Machine

"If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry to see you go, some nice ideas for the driver series.

As far as summarizing your paragraphs, I highlighted some key points you made. I'd say that I agree for the most part that Driver needs to take stunt driving, film directing, chases and interaction in the game world to the NEXT LEVEL if the game is to be a leader in the industry, along the lines of great games like Gears of War and Mass Effect.

For realism, I think a certain level of exaggeration is necessary for a faster, more intense driving experience. TDU, but with Driver physics would be a good start. The map is 1800 square miles of freeways, streets, hills, twists, turns, fields, forests, deserts, bridges, towns, cities and more. It stays focused on what it does best; driving.

Even though following the TDU formula with Driver physics is a good start, it's up to Reflections and Ubisoft to take the film director and chases to another level beyond anything we've seen in gaming so far. And it's got to be fun besides. No easy task.

On Foot is currently a distraction in the Driver series. Either make it INCREDIBLE, or scrap it, as it's been somewhat subpar as of Driver PL, bringing the series down a notch as a result.

[PennySillin]

As far as scrapping the on foot, the driving action hasn't been all that spectacular either. It peaked in the first game, fell off with the slow framerate of 2, stayed down with no traffic in 3, and got a bit better with the traffic and high speeds (finally) of PL

Too bad the cops couldn't keep up. Add to that NY is very flat, monotonous, and boring to drive in. There were a few ramps, but they only get you off the ground for a few seconds, then you're right back where you started, and sometimes not on your wheels.

Ramps need to lead you away from cops, onto a rooftop, a train, into the back of a truck (where you can then shoot from). Outside of chases, ramps need to lead to destruction, corkscrew ramps next to a lot full of cars, for plenty of tumbling twisted metal action (not the game, never played it)

Ramps that take a bit of time to set up for, perfect the launch speed to get to a desired location (and it may be contested, but in this situation I'd like a reset button for before you started up the ramp (preferably when you were stopped)) A reset button most of the time wouldn't be bad. Maybe disable it during chases

But when it comes to working on aspects of the game, I would definately say do the driving part first, as I can make do with a generic first person shooter on foot if the driving is fun again. Thats if you have to meet a deadline too soon.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
As far as scrapping the on foot, the driving action hasn't been all that spectacular either. It peaked in the first game, fell off with the slow framerate of 2, stayed down with no traffic in 3, and got a bit better with the traffic and high speeds (finally) of PL

Too bad the cops couldn't keep up. Add to that NY is very flat, monotonous, and boring to drive in. There were a few ramps, but they only get you off the ground for a few seconds, then you're right back where you started, and sometimes not on your wheels.

Ramps need to lead you away from cops, onto a rooftop, a train, into the back of a truck (where you can then shoot from). Outside of chases, ramps need to lead to destruction, corkscrew ramps next to a lot full of cars, for plenty of tumbling twisted metal action (not the game, never played it)

Ramps that take a bit of time to set up for, perfect the launch speed to get to a desired location (and it may be contested, but in this situation I'd like a reset button for before you started up the ramp (preferably when you were stopped)) A reset button most of the time wouldn't be bad. Maybe disable it during chases

But when it comes to working on aspects of the game, I would definately say do the driving part first, as I can make do with a generic first person shooter on foot if the driving is fun again. Thats if you have to meet a deadline too soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said. And the ramp set ups throughout anywhere in the city would be great.

[PennySillin]

Settling for less is a last resort I say. At least make the driving parts intense and action packed, because that is more fun. I still won't give up on the pursuit of good on foot in any of these games.

One more thing on my new and improved film director idea. The X button would be the button to accept a new camera angle, that way when you get the angle you want, just press X, then you could edit effects of it, make it a traveling camera (plot future points of the camera to set up a straight or curved course)

And one of my older ideas to have a map in film director that shows the course of the cars/player through the city so we can make replays faster

Maybe even the ability to have the replay running in slow motion, all the while you can set up cameras at normal speed and see them in action. Have the ability to rewind, fast forward, and play at normal speed.

And for big crashes, you could splice as many different clips from different angles/speed into your replay

And while you're moving cameras around, setting them up, you will see the cameras you have set up in the city. What I mean is you could set up a camera, move away from it, but see the camera actually standing in the middle of the road where you put it, and you can go back to old cameras considering the action remains close enough

[kalle90]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
As far as scrapping the on foot, the driving action hasn't been all that spectacular either. It peaked in the first game, fell off with the slow framerate of 2, stayed down with no traffic in 3, and got a bit better with the traffic and high speeds (finally) of PL

Too bad the cops couldn't keep up. Add to that NY is very flat, monotonous, and boring to drive in. There were a few ramps, but they only get you off the ground for a few seconds, then you're right back where you started, and sometimes not on your wheels.

Ramps need to lead you away from cops, onto a rooftop, a train, into the back of a truck (where you can then shoot from). Outside of chases, ramps need to lead to destruction, corkscrew ramps next to a lot full of cars, for plenty of tumbling twisted metal action (not the game, never played it)

Ramps that take a bit of time to set up for, perfect the launch speed to get to a desired location (and it may be contested, but in this situation I'd like a reset button for before you started up the ramp (preferably when you were stopped)) A reset button most of the time wouldn't be bad. Maybe disable it during chases

But when it comes to working on aspects of the game, I would definately say do the driving part first, as I can make do with a generic first person shooter on foot if the driving is fun again. Thats if you have to meet a deadline too soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To me driving itself has always been top quality. On foot has always been the agony.

[PennySillin]

The physics are great, yes. I was speaking more on the action side.

Driver 2 might've been good if it weren't for the slow, choppy framerate.

The cops are too easy to loose, and theres not much else to do in any of the newer games but run. And boring chases being the focus of the game doesn't work out to well.

[InsaneDriver06]

For Film Director, I want to be able to CUT the dull moments and get right to the action. Too often half the allowed time is lost just trying to find a good chase.

For On Foot, it needs to reach the quality of the top On Foot Shooter-Action Games on the market today, like Gears of War, Stranglehold, Syhphon Filter Dark Mirror, etc, otherwise, we'll keep ending up with the same subpar experience of past On Foot Drivers.

[PennySillin]

An older idea I had was that film director could be turned on and off at any time. There would be a 30 second "buffer zone" so you could turn FD on right after the action started, and it would have everything saved that happened 30 seconds before that, just so you don't miss anything.

[driver_madness]

GTR had that feature, it was handy.
It also had fast ford and rewind.
Damn... I wished Driver: 3 had rewind.
It would have saved me so much time.
Rather than going to the start and forward winding to the correct spot.

[InsaneDriver06]

Yes to a "start filming when you want" button, and a rewind button in FD.

[PennySillin]

For drive-by's, I'd like to be able to aim freely, maybe a button we could hold while aiming, or possible, xbox style driving controls, where the right stick looks around and R2/L2 would be used for gas/brake

and burnout needs its own button, its annoying in DPL how it automatically burns out

And, unrealistic as it may be, I'd like the motorcycles to slide sideways when you pull the e-brake and turn fast, it looks weird how it works in DPL

[Driverman2006]

No, burnout needs to be the way it is in D:PL. Where it's combined with accelerating. If you don't want to burnout and want to cruise around at a slow pace, then don't gun it on the accelerator trigger. The burnout button has always been a "Waste-of-space" in the Driver series (especially Driv3r).

[PennySillin]

The burnout button is a great tool to have, you obviously don't know how to use it, its not for going in a straight line, it helps with turning if you know how to use it, and it sucks not having that ability in DPL

It sucks in D3 also that you have to press R3 to burnout. I no longer use the shape buttons for driving, wears on the fingers when mashing them in, also with pressure sensitivity you really have to put pressure on the buttons to get full power

The problem is if the view button while driving is the right stick, and the driving functions are moved to the shoulders, wheres the shooting button going to be? It works best on the shoulder

Maybe left stick up/down could be gas/brake

[InsaneDriver06]

Better yet, for once Reflections NEEDS to allow ALL BUTTONS assignable including analog and R3, L3 button presses, like Midnight Club 3 offered. I dind't like the basic set up in MC3, but since they allowed FULL controller customization, it increased the replay value instantly.

[Driverman2006]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
The burnout button is a great tool to have, you obviously don't know how to use it, its not for going in a straight line, it helps with turning if you know how to use it, and it sucks not having that ability in DPL

It sucks in D3 also that you have to press R3 to burnout. I no longer use the shape buttons for driving, wears on the fingers when mashing them in, also with pressure sensitivity you really have to put pressure on the buttons to get full power

The problem is if the view button while driving is the right stick, and the driving functions are moved to the shoulders, wheres the shooting button going to be? It works best on the shoulder

Maybe left stick up/down could be gas/brake </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm guessing you never used the right analog stick to drive in D:PL.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Because THAT feels VERY realistic (on the PS2)! You can gun burnout or hold it in a lower position for cruising. But I think the PS3 and XBOX 360 controllers are better and more realistic for driving since they have triggers on them, they would act like the accelerator.

[PennySillin]

actually I think my last post just said all I use is the R3 stick

[Driverman2006]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
actually I think my last post just said all I use is the R3 stick </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
"R3" means you click the right analog stick.

[InsaneDriver06]

I want to be able to drive through rows of picket fences, trash cans, wooden boxes, cones, on the way straight through a long row of glass greenhouses with a huge ramp at the end.

[PennySillin]

R3 is the right stick, you can use it however you want its all R3 to me.

Oh yea we need a burnout button

[driver_madness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PennySillin:
R3 is the right stick, you can use it however you want its all R3 to me.

Oh yea we need a burnout button </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

a story with realism in mind
*madness hops into his Mustang
*he looks for the burnout pedal/button but cannot find it
*madness says, 'where is it'.

It was good to have it there but there may be a restriction of available buttons on the consoles controller. When that button could be something more useful.

Maybe a combo of buttons.
Like Accelerator and Break at the same time.
At least that also makes it more realistic.
If you did something like that in real life of course.

[PennySillin]

I'm not talking about standing burnouts just sitting still, I'm talking making a sharp turn, using burnout to bring the *** end of the car around quicker

Would you rather have a button to open car windows or use blinkers? Cause thats a much bigger waste of space. I thought you guys were all about the driving?

Theres plenty of buttons on a PS3/X360 controller

[driver_madness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
I want to be able to drive through rows of picket fences, trash cans, wooden boxes, cones, on the way straight through a long row of glass greenhouses with a huge ramp at the end. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, Driver: Parallel Lines has a lot of clutter like that between alleyways and all over the city.

I just wished I had the ability to put that on film director.

Also a MUST if we have on foot for just going in and out cars, we should have the ability to go into a Stunt shop, where we can purchase Items which we can place an item any place in the city.

So we could put a big ramp in the middle of the road and it just stays there until you reset the game.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by driver_madness:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
I want to be able to drive through rows of picket fences, trash cans, wooden boxes, cones, on the way straight through a long row of glass greenhouses with a huge ramp at the end. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, Driver: Parallel Lines has a lot of clutter like that between alleyways and all over the city.

I just wished I had the ability to put that on film director.

Also a MUST if we have on foot for just going in and out cars, we should have the ability to go into a Stunt shop, where we can purchase Items which we can place an item any place in the city.

So we could put a big ramp in the middle of the road and it just stays there until you reset the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool idea. I would like going into a shop on foot and purchasing stunt gear, helmets, gloves, and especially ramps, loops, corkscrew jumps, vehicle cannons and catapults, etc...

[PennySillin]

Stunt shop? Ok, maybe to buy the stuff, but then you could place them anywhere in the city from stunt mode in the pause menu

[InsaneDriver06]

Yeah, it the stunt shop could be incentive to keep playing to earn new stunt ramps, loops, etc, that could then be placed anywhere in the city with a button.

WISH: Auto Pilot Driver mode, OR better yet, a bus, tram or train to allow you to observe the sights from inside the vehicle, from the window seat. During my cruising time, I'd like to walk up and down the isles, pick a seat and take in the city sights as a passenger. Would be a great change of pace.

Of course GTA4 is allowing it in Taxi's, but it's still a great idea for any open city driving game, much like an interior dash view.

[FutureVenturer]

The Driver series never really was the highlight game for stunts. Only games like Stuntman, GTA, and FlatOut, as well as Burnout Paradise could be considered the perfect games for stunts. All the stunts in the Driver games usually were done by going up ramps, which weren't found in many parts of any city. Driver did have very little ramps, as did Driver 2. Driv3r's ramps weren't so impressive and nor were DPL's.

If we're going to see any ramps within the game, I hope that Reflections will be able to place them in smart locations. Otherwise, it may end up as little to no fun at all. There need to be lots of ramps, especially ones that can be a challenge to take off, such that you need to get a lot of speed in order to do them correctly. Each ramp should give you great air. Other stunts can be driving on two wheels and flipping your vehicle over several times. There can be more stunts than this, but Reflections will need to really get creative with this element. One other idea of making stunts in the game would be to have the player open to many skills for themselves to use for a vehicle like powersliding, slaloms, and all the other possible skills to find in a Driver game (both new & familiar ones).

[InsaneDriver06]

Add an option to remove all the clutter (menus, health bars, maps) from the screen while playing. That stuff is useful for missions, but free ride, I want it to seem like I'm actually inside the vehicle, without all kinds of **** messing up the view like in Driv3r especially.

[FutureVenturer]

It's possible that Reflections can use a feature like that of the next Alone in The Dark game. This feature, which I speak of, allows the inventory to be accessed through having the game zoom into the players pockets and pausing the time, which then can have the character look at the items he/she carries and pull them out realisticly. And instead of a health bar, Reflections can find some way to show how hurt the players is through the physical body of the character, or the screen can turn more red (a flashing red), like in the Halo games, Gears of War games, and Call of Duty games, which wouldn't disrupt the experience very much, as you'd still have plenty of visibility to know what's going on. As for everything else, it can be accessed through the pause menu. This would make the game feel very much like he/she in the shoes of the protagonist.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer:
It's possible that Reflections can use a feature like that of the next Alone in The Dark game. This feature, which I speak of, allows the inventory to be accessed through having the game zoom into the players pockets and pausing the time, which then can have the character look at the items he/she carries and pull them out realisticly. And instead of a health bar, Reflections can find some way to show how hurt the players is through the physical body of the character, or the screen can turn more red (a flashing red), like in the Halo games, Gears of War games, and Call of Duty games, which wouldn't disrupt the experience very much, as you'd still have plenty of visibility to know what's going on. As for everything else, it can be accessed through the pause menu. This would make the game feel very much like he/she in the shoes of the protagonist. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be cool, I agree. Less clutter menus.

[FutureVenturer]

Did you read what was found in the PS3 Magazine? I read it on a website, (the GTA forums) through scans of its pages. It offers 12 pages covering GTA IV. The cell phone in the game will, I think, be a part of the pause menu. If you fail a mission in any way, you can call on the phone to retry it, which will eliminate the idea of having to drive all the way back to your contact. Of course, if you decide to do it later, you can just go to doing something else. This is a really nice element for GTA IV and I hope that Reflections will be able to come up with something smarter than this. Also, the cell phone lets you know when you need to do missions and you can phone in on the police, the fire department, or a hospital, which can create a diversion. You can steal a paramedic vehicle or fire truck more easily by doing this. It not only opens up more possibilities, but it immerses you in the world more. As for the damage system, Niko will have an armor meter displayed, but to know his health condition, you'll need to look at him from all the shoots that he takes in (blood will eventually appear on his clothes). Whenever Niko needs to be safe from an enemy firing at him, he can place himself against any surface, duck (if need be), and take cover, while shooting at the enemies. There are a lot of things that are being redone and enhanced for GTA IV that will at least make it more of an improvement over the previous GTA games.

If Reflections can consider redoing some elements while enhancing others further, this will give it the edge it needs to create a solid Driver title.

[InsaneDriver06]

Mission restarts do become aggravating if the mission is next to impossible, so a way to just bail out and vent some steam to rethink a new strategy would be nice, instead of being forced to choose "Restart mission, quit mission".

[FutureVenturer]

I know what you're saying, but GTA IV will change a lot of that feeling. You must realize that there will be little to no load screens in all of the game. And with that kept in mind, I don't think it'll be as frustrating to see us open up a phone and make decisions as much as we'd get frustrated from playing a very linear game.

Driver does not need to take this approach, should it abandon narrative. It wouldn't have to worry at all. And should Reflections abandon narrative for the future Driver games, I believe that each game will feel very much like GTA III. With saying this, I mean that it'll feel like the evolution of open-world games is happening again (not that Driver will be just another GTA game).

Infact, if the next Driver game has no narrative, it can really help with so many of our other wishes to come true and make their way into it, hopefully being very well polished in the end.

Oh, and to make one last comment on the "restarting mission, quit mission" structure, I feel that this is a good way to open up more choices for players (much like an adventure game has dialogue appear which your character can then select). It's like Mass Effect. And better yet, GTA IV will have a very more original and unique pause menu than any game of the past, so you really have to give a good hand to Rockstar North on achieving this. The truth is that we won't know how good this element will be until we've gotten our hands on GTA IV.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer:
I know what you're saying, but GTA IV will change a lot of that feeling. You must realize that there will be little to no load screens in all of the game. And with that kept in mind, I don't think it'll be as frustrating to see us open up a phone and make decisions as much as we'd get frustrated from playing a very linear game.

Driver does not need to take this approach, should it abandon narrative. It wouldn't have to worry at all. And should Reflections abandon narrative for the future Driver games, I believe that each game will feel very much like GTA III. With saying this, I mean that it'll feel like the evolution of open-world games is happening again (not that Driver will be just another GTA game).

Infact, if the next Driver game has no narrative, it can really help with so many of our other wishes to come true and make their way into it, hopefully being very well polished in the end.

Oh, and to make one last comment on the "restarting mission, quit mission" structure, I feel that this is a good way to open up more choices for players (much like an adventure game has dialogue appear which your character can then select). It's like Mass Effect. And better yet, GTA IV will have a very more original and unique pause menu than any game of the past, so you really have to give a good hand to Rockstar North on achieving this. The truth is that we won't know how good this element will be until we've gotten our hands on GTA IV. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds interesting, but not groundbreaking to have missions accessible by phone. Driver 1 did the same thing with an answering machine, and you could even choose which call to take first, in a linear story structure of course.

-------

DRIVER needs new gameplay choices during free roam, like TAG MODE. In the mode already mentioned by Penny Sillin', you could "Tag" any car and choose to chase or be chased anywhere, at anytime without a menu/restart screen. If you hit other cars during the chase, they too will enter the chase.

Imagine a 10 vehicle chase.

And I want to see a GIANT RACE TRACK arena to visit for racing, watching races with tons of options like Pitstops, number of laps up to 200, tire replacements, smart AI racers, car, truck or motorcycle only races and mixed races as well, all your choice.

[FutureVenturer]

Yes, "the answering your cell phone" option may seem as a linear approach, but I think that linearity does deserve to exist, somehow, at one point, in every kind of game, especially if it helps polish up the whole experience. If it's too frustrating to be able to bare seeing the cell phone option always open up, asking you whether you wish to redo the mission or not, then get yourself a strategy guide or looking for one on the internet, get help with the mission, and you'll get through it, before you even know it.

Now, about the "Tag mode" idea, I believe that it should only apply to certain people, that being gangsters and other people who break the law. Otherwise, if the anyone could do this with you, it would look ridiculous and unrealistic.

If we're going to be able to visit places, we'll need to be able to interact with them as much as possible. I don't really think that sitting down and watching a race is more impressive than interacting with it, simply because games are about playing and getting out there in the game, to improve on your own skills. Sure, they could make this an option, but I don't believe it would be used by many people in most cases, when they'd likely figure that it's better to go and race than watch one.

[InsaneDriver06]

TAG MODE and COP MODE.

COP MODE: Be a cruiser cop, doing your daily job of traffic stops, handing out tickets, arresting criminals, assisting during emergencies, etc.

TAG MODE: Bump any car and a chase begins, either you chase the car (s) tapped, or they chase you till either is rammed out of commission or escapes. This would be PERFECT for a Driver game.

[kalle90]

I don't see what's so amazing about Tag Mode you keep talking about it again and again. Maybe you just like chasing and being chased too much:P

As a cheat ok but I could think better choices. Otherwise some people could do it, I'm sure in real world some would do it, but not everyone. That would be unrealistic, just what Driver should avoid if it's unnecessary.

[FutureVenturer]

I'm starting to feel that the whole idea centered around anything else besides law enforcement, as being the side missions (racing, taxi driver, fire fighter, etc.) would only make Reflections' next game closer to that of GTA IV rather than it being more different and actually a better polished game. When I'm looking at a developer that has made a great number of mistakes recently, I'm hoping that the developer will fix those many mistakes, and while they can just do that to ensure the next game won't turn up as bad, it seems that a few innovative/different directions are necessary to helping drive the whole game forward too.

In accordance to that of an article which I've recently stumbled upon (can be found here. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17902)), the story, even if it's very groundbreaking, will not be enough when the rest of the game feels broken, which compensates for the lack of skill found in Reflections' workers. Designers are more valuable than writers, as writers have usually linear ways of having a story flow within a video game, and even certain designers have the abilities to write as well. Not only is a writer not as valuable nor as important, but hiring a writer can take time and great sums of money, so it's not easy to find the right writer to pitch a game and have it become successful. I'm trying to point out that, while a story is quite necessary in every genre (besides that of puzzle games, maze games, sports games, and racing games), the AI and all else is far more important, with knowing that this is not a book, but that it is simply a visual experience. When a player gets a visual experience of a video game, everything--the graphics, gameplay, controls, sound, and replay value--must be done well to help make it more compelling to continue playing that game. The story is important too, but all the other pieces will be the biggest piece of them all to making the best playing/interacting experience possible. This is what I want Reflections to worry about the most.

Lastly, I would love to address that the environment within a game (that being the levels)are a big important factor, nowadays. There is enough technology to make the whole environment destructible, and so, I would be very pleased if total destruction can be done by using weapons, or better yet, vehicles, which would be driven through places to damage them. GTA IV, despite with the surprises still possibly going to be included in the game, will not allow for a nearly, if not completely destrucible environment. The city needs to look and be interacted in many ways (through doors, windows, fences, ladders, walking driving, explosions, etc. that will truly help make the entire experience feel unique. D3 brought some impressive explosions and damage modeling to vehicles, but now, with the PS3 & Xbox 360, we need nearly everything to become destructible in as many ways possible.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kalle90:
I don't see what's so amazing about Tag Mode you keep talking about it again and again. Maybe you just like chasing and being chased too much:P

As a cheat ok but I could think better choices. Otherwise some people could do it, I'm sure in real world some would do it, but not everyone. That would be unrealistic, just what Driver should avoid if it's unnecessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember in Driver 1, if you tap a police car that was blocking the road, it would become activated and chase you?

Driver's about chases last time I checked. Tag Mode's the perfect way to get into chases without having to select a menu everytime, plus it can expand into huge multi-vehicle chases beyond what we've seen so far.


------------

Future Venturer, being a fire fighter relates to driving a vehicle, being a taxi driver, racing in arena events, all vehicle related careers. Though similar to GTA, they can play out very differently and be much more realistic, rather than fast, timed, shallow tasks like in GTA. There's a lot that can be done with imagination in these career areas, in vehicle and then on foot.

Environment deformation is something the upcoming games Fracture and Red Faction 360 are skilled at, which requires a new engine to run the destruction, something Reflections should consider. But how does destruction improve the driving action?

One example, drive over a shaky bridge once, and it falls apart when the cops try to cross it, sending them into the water below.

[FutureVenturer]

I don't really think that there should be something like Tag Mode, unless it's only going to put the chases in the hands of cops & criminals because other types of people would probably start feeling too boring to chase. In case you didn't know, the GTA games had something like this, so if you shot someone's vehicle, or if you slammed into it, certain pedestrians would break the law, and then you could get into a chase. I'd rather have new skills and strong AI in the car chases than this.

Although driving a taxi or a firetruck relates to driving, Driver has only focused on crimes, whereas GTA is about stealing vehicles and doing all kinds of things within them. And I think that the world of crime could be done extremely well if Reflections only focuses on crime as part of the side missions and story missions. Besides, it's very likely that Reflections would just take the simple, timed, tasks fashion for its side missions, if they go further than just being about crime, so I don't want to see this happen.

The reason why destruction would be helpful is that it can create new pathways for the players to drive through. For instance, if you head right towards a window of a store, you'll go through it, without stopping, and you can eventually drive through the other side of the store, which will create a hole in the wall, and depending on fast you were going, this will determine how far your vehicle will go and how much damage will go both to the building and to your vehicle. Like Red Faction's G-mod, it could help open up new areas for you to escape and more, all by the destruction of the environment. And physics for the objects, vehicles, and people would really help bring forth an even better realism found in the next Driver game. After all, Driver is all about trying to create the most realistic city possible.

[InsaneDriver06]

Wishlist: COP ABILITIES:

Ability to cuff anyone, so when they're cuffed, you can lead them around if they don't run off. If they run off, tackle them down and stuff 'em in the back seat of your car.

Ability to use a radar gun to track traffic speed on the roads and freeways. I want to stake out behind a billboard and tag speeders. Pull out in heavy, fast moving traffic and watch the wreck behind the cruiser, as the high speed pursuit ahead begins if they run, or ends if they decide to pull over.

Then I exit my vehicle, walk up prepared for a gun shot. If none, then hand them a ticket after getting their registration, license info. If they don't have that, I can fine or arrest them.

[FutureVenturer]

Believe it or not, the quality of a game will always be more important than its quantity, especially when a game is highly innovative. Therefore, when looking at the next Driver game, I don't want Reflections to try too hard on cramming in as many features as possible, but I do want them to follow their own ways and to make the features very bug free and well implemented. As long as every feature doesn't feel broken, and maybe even if we get a second way to how the story can be played through (instead of only one way), this can be enough, along with a great portrayal of realism in the people and the city's environment, as well as that of the vehicles (mainly the automobiles). Oh, and if Film Director could return, that'd be lovely too.

[InsaneDriver06]

Wishlist: Ability to crawl onto the roof of your car, or hop onto the seat of your motorcycle as it's moving full speed, then jump off at the last second as it flies off a cliff, into a wall, up a ramp, or you could leap onto another vehicle "Pursuit Force" style. Great ways to use the "Vehicle as the weapon" without taking yourself out in the impact.

[FutureVenturer2]

Lots of emotions, a powerful theme on what crime feels like in reality, and as much realistic and polished game as possible are just about the only things which Driver 4 truly needs. Without one of these, the game will not be a high caliber of art for a game, and it may just end up as immoral as almost every free-roam crime game has done so in the past. Also, unlike Rockstar North, I want Reflections to keep in mind that this isn't a movie, so they shouldn't strive as much as possible to make D4 look like one. Try to let the emotions, realism, and morality come alive as the player is moving and progressing throughout the game, not through the cut scenes only.

[J_Frumpleberg]

The only thing I care about anymore is that Reflections makes the game fun and action packed, and through realism to the side.

I won't bother getting into specifics becuase I've wasted a lot of time doing that here. The only reason I came back is because GTA4 sucks. Driver, your move.

[FutureVenturer2]

What games really need, much of what movies and books as well as fine arts already have, are world connections and personal connections, in that, when you pick up a controller and start playing through a game, you'll later find that it has a great deal to do with going against war, or it can be something that speaks about our politics. We definitely need more people like this. I'm tired of seeing so many of the same kinds of games. New themes, questions, and facts must be put into games to help drive their narrative and gameplay as well as their concepts forward.

Driver 4 should show us something that we can learn about crime and how it is dealt with. What goes through the minds of those who are criminals? How do they get the job done? What kinds of jobs do they carry out? How does the law enforcement track them down? What is the city's government doing to make sure that crime is kept at a minimum? These are some questions which Driver 4 should really have us experience and ask. If more games actually had expressions, emotions, and tones, then it would really drive the entire experience forward. You wouldn't always be serious, angry, or just excited. Sometimes, you'd feel sad, but at other times, you may feel happy. Maybe they can mix it up a little. This is how games should function as we get more advanced technology. And if you think about it, the more developers focus on making expressions, emotions, and tones for games, the sooner we will be able to have games that are cut scene free. They may still be linear, but at least they'll drive a much bigger picture into that of our minds.

I'd sacrifice the things outside of the missions (side missions or collectibles) for a better story and for more options on how you can approach the missions it has to offer. Then, it can also have questions to ask, facts, and tone in it, which will make it feel more realistic than that of any other free-roam action-adventure game that was set in the crime world. This would possibly make its story better than that of GTA IV's. Also, if you think about it, voice-overs are not always enough to make a game's story intriguing when there can be more actions and things to follow. The only time when dialogue should happen is when something very significant needs to be known (not only your objective within a mission, but a good description of someone or of something in relation to reality). This is what the MGS games were able to do and I trust that Driver 4 can handle it too.

Once again, Reflections should deliver a game that is almost, if not, cut scene free and which employs all the realistic kinds of expressions (sad, angry, happy, etc.) that exist in reality, applying that to the main character, the other characters, and to any people of no importance in the missions (random pedestrians, cops, etc.). If this can be done in real-time, it'll feel as amazing as GTA IV was after it included the Euphoria engine and the taking cover feature to make much more realistic impacts, coming from any particular weapon in the game. Of course, Reflections should also try to handle a unique physics engine, but there needs to be much more than that, and it is most important that its workers build up features that will help out the main aspects of the game. Survival and driving are just two of those themes, but the other themes can be law enforcement (narrowing that down to the most important aspects), which need to be focused on.

[InsaneDriver06]

The new DRIVER: Make it about chases again, not dull missions like "follow this car but don't get too close or he'll get spooked, go to this checkpoint, drop this off, pick this up, get here before the timer runs out" junk missions that show no creativity. I can't tell you how tired I am of boring missions that have nothing to do with great vehicle chases (It's like putting a race-car behind an office desk and expecting the player to come back for more).

Reflections, promise us you won't repeat the DPL, Driv3r, GTA formula. Innovate what it means to play a DRIVER game. Take it to the next level and beyond. Bring the awesome driving controls and amp up the intensity.

Give us the BEST driving chase game ever made if that's possible, but avoid the GTA formula at ALL COSTS.

I repeat, do not give us another sub par GTA dressed in DRIVER clothing. Innovate and make it your own and the fans will show up (new or old). Driving, chases, Hollywood stunt style action.

[FutureVenturer2]

Yes, indeed, InsaneDriver06. We need Driver 4 to look as much different as possible from the GTA franchise. However, with that said, I do want on foot, but only that the most important elements will be chosen for the game (by all means of survival). And by making the crime theme much stronger (to make crime feel as a terrible thing, rather than something as you can call heaven in the world of GTA), as well as adding tone, and bringing together the biggest case you've ever seen a cop work on--something which isn't unoriginal and is followed by important sequences of events and characters that really take the crime theme to new heights--better yet, the cop theme.

Give players a reason that they will never forget about why we need protection in our society and on how that is done. For, we can have all the freedom we can ever damn please, but it still will not give us anything more than just what we've already explored in the past, so sacrificing non-linearity (which is actually still linear, to a certain extent, even if its not as linear as a linear game) for more of a linear game, even if that needs to be seen in a game centered around crime and that is in a city, to help make the experience more than just high-tech entertainment as the majority of people think of it as, while delivering various approaches to situations in the missions, will really signify a revolutionizing way for driving games forward, especially those which contain a crime setting. And this is what will make Reflections differ from Rockstar North. This is where the right kind of thinking in developing a game will be met--something which Reflections hasn't been able to do since the first Driver game.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
Yes, indeed, InsaneDriver06. We need Driver 4 to look as much different as possible from the GTA franchise. However, with that said, I do want on foot, but only that the most important elements will be chosen for the game (by all means of survival). And by making the crime theme much stronger (to make crime feel as a terrible thing, rather than something as you can call heaven in the world of GTA), as well as adding tone, and bringing together the biggest case you've ever seen a cop work on--something which isn't unoriginal and is followed by important sequences of events and characters that really take the crime theme to new heights--better yet, the cop theme.

Give players a reason that they will never forget about why we need protection in our society and on how that is done. For, we can have all the freedom we can ever damn please, but it still will not give us anything more than just what we've already explored in the past, so sacrificing non-linearity (which is actually still linear, to a certain extent, even if its not as linear as a linear game) for more of a linear game, even if that needs to be seen in a game centered around crime and that is in a city, to help make the experience more than just high-tech entertainment as the majority of people think of it as, while delivering various approaches to situations in the missions, will really signify a revolutionizing way for driving games forward, especially those which contain a crime setting. And this is what will make Reflections differ from Rockstar North. This is where the right kind of thinking in developing a game will be met--something which Reflections hasn't been able to do since the first Driver game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you have a solid point regarding the theme of making crime have a serious impact in the game, not to treat killing like swatting a fly. It's actually a great point for games to consider.

But on the same hand, I think Driver can avoid all of that by sticking to entertaining the gamer, like the sense you're getting behind the wheel of a super-charged muscle-car for the first time, buckling your belt and revving up to THE most intense vehicle chases ever witnessed in a game. That's what I want when I play the new Driver. I don't see much value in on foot to be honest when it's the driving that will make Driver 4 great.

Can Driver 4 work with on foot? Maybe, but avoid being like GTA. That formula of gameplay is old and offers nothing new worth replaying over and over.

[FutureVenturer2]

If I'm ever going to consider buying another Driver game, I really need something more than a game which is worth my time and money; it needs to teach me something about society because, if you didn't already notice, most of the best art creations (found in books, fine arts, and movies) have proven themselves worthy enough by not only being very amusing, but also by treating our understanding of reality with care. Whether you like it or not, all forms of media (books, movies, games, etc.), not by every product, but by some, feature more than something that is worth your time to having fun. For instance, Metal Gear Solid is so fascinating because in its cut scenes, it speaks about cloning and a lot about things which make war seem wrong. Each character has a reason for being at war (e.g. love, loyality, greed, etc.) and so does Solid Snake. Unfortunately, when the player is trying to understand Snake, they don't ever really know why he is fighting. Instead, they can make choices of either killing the enemy or knocking them out. And, at the end of the story, the player has created himself a character for Snake.

The driving must be taken further, by having cops take real approaches, as those seen in the reality police chase TV shows. AI and physics as well as animations must be taken that far. As for on-foot, there should be various ways to attack an enemy, in which you can take cover, use simple grapples, punches, and kicks (those of a certain martials arts style, maybe karate), use weapons in first person view or third person view when aiming, and to roll to the side (not forward, which was found in D3 and happened to only worsen the situation) as well as in a way that is similar to that of MGS4, use the ability to stand up, crouch, or crawl (like in MGS games, and this will have the accuracy of firing your weapon vary, where crawling will make it the most accurate, crouching will make it less accurate, but certainly more accurate than when standing), and any other possible ways for survival. The things besides that of survival for the on-foot portion can be things like shimmying, climbing, running, walking, etc. Things like side missions, collecting things, simulation elements, or RPG elements don't need to be around because, of course, this is Driver, not GTA. Driver 4 doesn't need any relation to a GTA game whatsoever.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
If I'm ever going to consider buying another Driver game, I really need something more than a game which is worth my time and money; it needs to teach me something about society because, if you didn't already notice, most of the best art creations (found in books, fine arts, and movies) have proven themselves worthy enough by not only being very amusing, but also by treating our understanding of reality with care. Whether you like it or not, all forms of media (books, movies, games, etc.), not by every product, but by some, feature more than something that is worth your time to having fun. For instance, Metal Gear Solid is so fascinating because in its cut scenes, it speaks about cloning and a lot about things which make war seem wrong. Each character has a reason for being at war (e.g. love, loyality, greed, etc.) and so does Solid Snake. Unfortunately, when the player is trying to understand Snake, they don't ever really know why he is fighting. Instead, they can make choices of either killing the enemy or knocking them out. And, at the end of the story, the player has created himself a character for Snake.

The driving must be taken further, by having cops take real approaches, as those seen in the reality police chase TV shows. AI and physics as well as animations must be taken that far. As for on-foot, there should be various ways to attack an enemy, in which you can take cover, use simple grapples, punches, and kicks (those of a certain martials arts style, maybe karate), use weapons in first person view or third person view when aiming, and to roll to the side (not forward, which was found in D3 and happened to only worsen the situation) as well as in a way that is similar to that of MGS4, use the ability to stand up, crouch, or crawl (like in MGS games, and this will have the accuracy of firing your weapon vary, where crawling will make it the most accurate, crouching will make it less accurate, but certainly more accurate than when standing), and any other possible ways for survival. The things besides that of survival for the on-foot portion can be things like shimmying, climbing, running, walking, etc. Things like side missions, collecting things, simulation elements, or RPG elements don't need to be around because, of course, this is Driver, not GTA. Driver 4 doesn't need any relation to a GTA game whatsoever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please, no karate in a Driver game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I do like your other ideas, like the cops thinking like real cops, strategizing how they're going to take your vehicle out beyond the chase.

I'm taking video games like Driver 1 from the approach that I'm walking onto a roller coaster in an amusement park. I'm not getting onboard to learn about the history of the world, or to learn the value of morality, I'm getting on for a thrill ride. That's what I want in the next Driver most of all. If, while waiting in line till I board the coaster, the game offers a compelling storyline to listen to, that's fine, but it's the ride I'm really after, if that makes any sense.

[FutureVenturer2]

Karate was just an example. And besides, I do think that something more like Bruce Lee's own fighting style (Jeet Kune Do or Jujitistu). And by the way, karate is something that my cousins practiced (one of them has just completed it in December of 2007). I'm not saying that I like it, but it isn't a bad martial arts style. However, I'd rather go for Ninjitsu, Tae Kwon Do, or any of those which Bruce Lee had learned.

Other than that, to be more clear about the idea of morality, I want the game to raise questions, to raise facts, anything like that. It does not have anything to do with our history (the U.S.) as a nation. It's interesting to go ahead and ask questions, from time to time, which can be done if a game really goes deep in its own meaning. And that is fine with me if you don't think there needs to be anything more than entertainment. Most people only want entertainment, anyways, but I'm a much wiser person, and my preferences are therefore narrowed down further. This pits me at forgetting those games which only meant being about fun, and it's fine if I have to leave them in the dust because one of the most important things in life is understanding. How are you to enjoy playing a sport unless you first learn to play it? How are you to enjoy a FPS game, unless you first learn its controls and general purpose? How are you to know anything about stoichiometry, if you don't chose to learn chemistry? The list of questions can go on, because that is how life runs. We must first be affiliated well enough with a particular thing before we can make any decisions. And when it comes to a game that is fun, I could almost pick every game that is rated great or higher, but now I'm understanding that reviewers (not critics) are only making reviews for the purpose of providing people a consumer's guide. They do this by telling what is good and bad about a product and whether or not you should buy it. Anything can be reviewed, and from what I've learned, this is not art. Art is criticism. Criticism, as in accordance to an article that I read to learn more about it (by Greg Costikan), is an informed discussion, by an intelligent and knowledgeable observer of a medium, of the merits and importance (or lack thereof) of a particular work. Criticism isn't intended to help the reader decide whether or not to plunk down money on something; some readers' purchase decisions may be influenced, but guiding their decisions is not the purpose of the critical work. Criticism is, in a sense merely "writing about" -- about art, about dance, about theater, about writing, about a game--about any particular work of art. How a critical piece addresses a work, and what approach it takes, may vary widely from critic to critic, and from work to work.

Here's another piece of info that speaks about, in detail, what criticism exactly feels like:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some valid critical approaches? Where does this work fall, in terms of the historical evolution of its medium. How does this work fit into the creator's previous ouevres, and what does it say about his or her continuing evolution as an artist. What novel techniques does this work introduce, or how does it use previously known techniques to create a novel and impactful effect. How does it compare to other works with similar ambitions or themes. What was the creator attempting to do, and how well or poorly did he achieve his ambitions. What emotions or thoughts does it induce in those exposed to the work, and is the net effect enlightening or incoherent. What is the political subtext of the work, and what does it say about gender relationships/current political issues/the nature-nurture debate, or about any other particular intellectual question (whether that question is a particular hobby-horse of the reviewer, or inherently raised by the work in question). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And if you're so interested in knowing why people should not follow reviewers' opinions, instead taking in critics' opinions, and, moreover, why we should look into games with our own critiques, go here (http://playthisthing.com/game-criticism-why-we-need-it-and-why-reviews-arent-it).

In other words, by saying that there needs to be a greater focus on how criticism is layed out, and how a medium involves more than just fun, but a powerful narrative that brings forth a lot of understanding, a very professional writer needs to be found to create such a piece of work. This is my last and perhaps my biggest request for Reflections. I can't break it down any further than this, which also ties into everything else, including the driving and on-foot elements. Sure, I might still come around, (I'm not promising anymore on whether I'll come or go since that hasn't worked out at all), but it'll be more around the context of the need for understanding. Not only will this help make others think more over what they've grown to follow (fun/entertainment as the main goal), but it may even change the way they think, so it may, in the end, provide a very significant factor that needs to be raised in public, simply because so many people don't know this. Hey, who knows, maybe I'll decide to one day provide an excellent example of what D4's storyline should be like, following both the path of fun and understanding.

[J_Frumpleberg]

FutureVenturer, while I do like movies or games that make you think or have a statement to make (sometimes), I just don't think Driver is that game. Theres nothing political about it. You just drive, and connecting driving with some deeper meaning will be lost on pretty much everyone who plays the game.

Art to me is annoying, take music for example, rather than make an entertaining song that people will like to hear and dance to, people who call themselves artists would rather whine for an excessively long time into a microphone about love or war, and not work to make their music likable in any form, blaming their failure on how other people don't understand music, when really they haven't a clue. Anyway, where was I?

[FutureVenturer2]

Fine. Think that way. Go ahead. I don't care because I've jumped further into knowing what we need, and that is something more than just fun. Sometimes, we can actually learn a thing or two, which can either be small, or it can be so huge that it changes our lives dramatically. It's something that will take my excitement further.

If you think about it, exploring the ways of art in any medium requires more thinking, but that is also something that can help you better enjoy the entire experience surrounding your game, book, movie, or any sort of other medium, which it is that you have. I guess it's just that people are often lazy, or they just don't like to accept this into their own lives for themselves, simply because they haven't looked very far into it as a subject. And I understand that, if you ask me. If you won't be enlightened, and if InsaneDriver06 won't be enlightened, there is always a slight chance that someone else will be that person.

One of the reasons why it's good to follow the ways of art is because it is what makes you more different. Don't follow the ways of consumerism too much, which we often have taken into our own hands. And it is often consumerism that drives our desires for having something that seems like it truly might suit us in our lives. By applying art to something, you look at it more meaningfully and then you can make an even better decision. Popularity is what often makes games and other forms of mass media sell well. I used to follow that, but now I realize that popularity can be an important and significant thing, but is not always this way. Some things may just be popular, but the majority who didn't buy it might say that it doesn't interest them at all.

Video games are the last medium to follow the approach of narrative. They are at the "Birth of a Nation" stage, currently. Birth of A Nation (1919) was the very first film to signify a huge improvement in narrative in cinema and it is what led the path for many other movies to come, for when it comes to driving the narrative to new heights. Then, with film directors like Jean Renoir, they drove cinema even further, applying artistic expression and culture within it. This is one of the reasons why, eventually, everyone living would go ahead and buy a TV to watch films and TV shows. The 1920s began as a huge period for people in the U.S. to watch movies, as it was infact, the Roaring Twenties. And now, video games must reach the stage where everyone will look towards video games and almost every household will accept them. They also must be noticed by gamers and the press as more than just entertainment. Video games, like movies, need their own critics, not reviewers. Reviewers don't resemble art (only are consumer guides), whereas critics, which are going the ways of the dodo bird, are not about telling which product to buy, but they are simply around for the purpose of intelligent discussion that involves the products that we may have already purchased, helping us understand their themes, plot, and characters much better by connecting them to society and reality. This is why I feel that criticism must be taken seriously and why understanding (art) should also be noticed by many people, especially those who create their own works (i.e. game developers, studios, artists, painters), and I definitely would like Reflections to realize the importance of this.

[J_Frumpleberg]

So how did you become enlightened? You sound like you know everything, must've been a good TV special!

[FutureVenturer2]

Read my third and also my last paragraph, which I've edited in my post, and then you'll get the whole picture better. You can then respond to me, perhaps in a more intelligent and respectful manner.

Oh, and whenever I have enough time, I do hope to come up with a storyline that really would fit D4 well, employing both art and fun.

[J_Frumpleberg]

It says the same thing as all your other posts:
"something something something art something something something meaningful..." etc

[JacksonL2007]

I think your right about the intro. The parallel lines intro was rather weak I felt. Driv3r was much better at the cutscenes narative and general style. Parallel Lines' cutscenes looked amazing and the voicing was fantastic but I didn't get the same atmosphere from it.

Story is also a big deal. A lame story leads to u not caring what happens, not what you want from a series thats rapidly falling apart. I suggest they get a proper writer in to do the story. The Godfather (film) has got an amazing storyline and I cared about the characters. Reflections just need to watch that they dont make the game all about the story. Just don't treat it as an after thought. For instance, the Parallel Lines concept was brilliant but the whole idea of revenge was just plain silly. I never cared enough about TK. So i didnt care about what happened to him and couldnt care less if he gets his own back.

[FutureVenturer2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
It says the same thing as all your other posts:
"something something something art something something something meaningful..." etc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let me tell you something, J_Frumpleberg. Video games are behind that of movies and every other medium because they're currently only at a stage where it's all about narrative and entertainment, which is also why there hasn't been so much innovation throughout the years. I can tell you now that movies grew more vastly in terms of concepts, ideas, and innovation, simply because their studios had decided to look further than just the likes of entertainment. They referred back to literature, in that they were able to discover that movies can work in only so many different ways. And yet many developers are looking into movies, but they're missing the point that it's more than just about entertainment and about the story. Certain games don't need stories at all, but for those which do have stories, they might as well have some very different ones in terms of their own themes.

Why is it that so many developers have merely nothing more than improvement over that of existing game formulas? Do you wish to know? I can tell you that the blame for this is mostly that developers haven't looked any deeper than they could've. Everyone has a chance of possibly employing a video game that changes the way we've experienced games in the past, but too many developers, as well as their publishers, care for money more than for their passion in designing games.

When games had been taken to a whole new level, this happened around the time of both soon after the 1983 stock market crashed, which was when the U.S.'s many companies working in the video game industry got lost. Thanks to a previously trading card company, now a video game company, called Nintendo, we were saved and didn't lose the world of video games. I think that if you look carefully at the world's history, it may be true that only the darkest times of our lives were when we actually saw people stand up to the challenge and bring forth true art and significant changes for our society. This happened in the Great Renaissance, as did it happen during WWI, WWII, and during the Cold War. In fact, it's very fascinating to know how many different talented studios created their own films during the times of the Cold War. My point is that we may never truly see a time where games will vastly see innovation and growth, or better yet, have them reach that level of culture and self expression, which goes beyond just the good narrative that is present in many games today. I guess that we are quite out of luck until we are able to see a time like that happen. But it should never be kept out of our minds of how much significance art has been in driving messages through so many of our families, from generation to generation. Fine arts and music, as well as literature, in the old days, were all which we had to ourselves, and we took great pride in them, hopefully for more than the sake of fun.

Therefore, I don't know if there will ever come a time that we'll soon see games reach that level of high art, as all the previous mediums have already done so, but we should at least consider to work that much harder for a successful life. I want to make my family proud, and I want to make sure that, for every generation that passes, it'll continue to grow better and better, driving knowledge and morality into the minds of my people. But sometimes, it won't be me, nor will it be someone's own family member who is responsible for changing their paths, either for good or bad, but it'll be the art that is contained within mass media. I sure hope that society will not piss up to the likes of Rockstar North and other big bad influences because only bad will come from people like this. Maybe you haven't already a clue about what games are truly right for society and, for that matter, don't care whatsoever. Also, if you had thought of including art in every medium, maybe you would've not gone wasting so much of your time with video games because you'd know that, while it is good to enjoy yourself and to learn more, your life must go on, letting nothing as small as playing video games ruin your future. But you didn't get that to work, did you? As you can see, art is what clears our minds with more understanding, about how we must live. Taking your time on video games each day for less than 2 hrs. may not be bad at all. Heck, you can play video games for only 30 minutes a day. From there, you'll have lots of time to do other things, and you'll learn more as well as have fun doing it. And, if you one day have nothing interesting to discuss, you can always think back to something which a particular video game has taught you that is so important. Take my word for it. This is all that I have left to say to you.

[J_Frumpleberg]

The whole point of videogames (in the first place) was entertainment, but now realism is rearing its ugly head and destroying franchises that were once great. Maybe creativity is dying, no one will make up their own ideas so they steal from reality because its easier. But thats beside the point.

Videogames are simply toys, but taken to the next level, where you don't have to imagine the surroundings (maybe not the best thing, as we'll have a bunch of stupid kids with no imagination). ****, I had to imagine Driv3r was a good game.

Read a book if you want to find deeper understanding. But don't come on here thinking you're some artist all of a sudden just so people think you're smart and rally around your lame ideas.

Smiler, my post before this wasn't addressed to you, sorry about the confusion.

[FutureVenturer2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
The whole point of videogames (in the first place) was entertainment, but now realism is rearing its ugly head and destroying franchises that were once great. Maybe creativity is dying, no one will make up their own ideas so they steal from reality because its easier. But thats beside the point.

Videogames are simply toys, but taken to the next level, where you don't have to imagine the surroundings (maybe not the best thing, as we'll have a bunch of stupid kids with no imagination). ****, I had to imagine Driv3r was a good game.

Read a book if you want to find deeper understanding. But don't come on here thinking you're some artist all of a sudden just so people think you're smart and rally around your lame ideas.

Smiler, my post before this wasn't addressed to you, sorry about the confusion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, video games are not only designed to be for fun. I've read recently an article about something else, besides art, and this was another issue surrounding video games. This topic was serious games. There have been a number of serious games made in the past and while they didn't go mainstream as games that are centered around being high quality and done for the purpose of fun, they have been able to give certain people messages as to how video games can do more than just be fun, and how the experiences a player feels will impact him/her in what he/she does to help a certain issue that is discussed as a topic in a video game. There've been several video games surrounding politics and how we need to work to end poverty in our world. These games true purposes are to influence society better.

If you look at movies, there haven't been very many serious movies (documentaries) up until the time of the 1960s and 1970s, so it did take quite some time before the movie industry would mature itself. This makes it clear that, at every point in time, with any type of medium, a new medium will eventually mature itself as soon as it moves further than the purpose of entertainment. And while serious games may not become mainstream any time soon, it certainly is a topic which people should take to help bring our realization that hobbies/interests of ours can be more than just about the idea of fun.

If you don't like facing society in knowing that there are actually plenty of issues concerning society, then don't do so, but I like to think of being able to know both the good and bad things because that makes me feel a lot more clear about the whole situation surrounding a certain topic. Maybe you just like to pretend as if nothing is wrong with some of the things which we currently have today, and that is fine with me.

Damn, I just would wish that we'd get another forum surrounding Driver on this forums because just about every other game has more than one forum (one for off-topic discussions, and others surrounding the game). If there was a forum like an off-topic discussion in the Driver category, then I'd discuss things like this over there, not having to bother you guys at all with what issues surround today's gaming industry.

[FutureVenturer2]

Anyways, that is the last bit of information I'll ever discuss surrounding things like before (art and other game issues). Well, I might still have references to that, but I'll make it somewhat more connected with the ideas that should go into the making of Driver 4.

I still feel that we need a theme and a storyline that feels really emotional and realistic, such that it actually is enjoyable and that it helps us learn about what crime really is like and how the law tries to make sure its get rid of it. Also, before I used to feel that film director is a good feature that should be in the next Driver game, but now, as I think more about the fact that games should be driven through the player's experience and not through viewing something (cut scenes), I would have to regard film director as nothing more of a feature which tries to take the form of a cut scene or movie, and most people probably haven't spent a lot of time on it, so it is irrelevant to the Driver franchise. It worked in the first game, but it feels pretty old now. Driver 4 really needs to feel as different from the GTA franchise as it is possible for Reflections to make that happen, in terms of the storyline, the characters, the setting, the emotions, the vehicles, and practically everything else. REMOVE THE SIDE MISSIONS, THE HIDDEN ITEMS, AND ANYTHING ELSE IRRELEVANT TO THE MAIN PORTIONS OF THE GAME. For now, I will just feel comfortable with the storyline being the whole focus of the game. Sure, you should maybe be able to do something outside of the missions as well, but don't make it relate in any way to GTA IV or any previous GTA game.

Something which can be focused on very much, despite it being in some relation to GTA IV, is more interacting with everyone in the game. This is definitely an important component of a game. And I'd really like it if Reflections can make cut scenes replaced with only gameplay, making dialogue go on throughout the game, much like in Half-Life or Half-Life 2, whose dialogue was actually done very well. They may be regarded as the best FPS games of all time, by knowing that they had many strengths.

[FutureVenturer2]

For your information, when a game doesn't have any cut scenes, it is refer to having a scripted sequence. A scripted sequence should play out in D4 because high quality cut scenes don't connect to much to the gameplay's graphics. It is considered pre-rendered footage, and not real-time footage to use high quality CGI, so I don't want that because it looks different from that of the actual game's graphics. Also, once again, it costs a lot more and the Driver franchise really never has anything unique about its cut scenes, so it is useless to use any.

[JacksonL2007]

I'd suggest the cutscene money gets spent on in game graphics. then the real time cutscenes wouldnt be half as bad.The only pre rendered cutscenes should be the trailer, intro, Ending and if there is a big plot twist. but not one for every mission

[FutureVenturer2]

In a video game generation such as this, why would there be anymore need to include pre-rendered cut scenes when textures found in real-time graphics are actually starting out to look very good. Look at games like Crysis or Gears of War. They don't need pre-rendering. Even GTA IV doesn't need it. As far as I'm concerned, pre-rendering will begin to get smaller, which will then result in much better work spent creating video games, so Reflections shouldn't use pre-rendered cut scenes at all.

[JacksonL2007]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
In a video game generation such as this, why would there be anymore need to include pre-rendered cut scenes when textures found in real-time graphics are actually starting out to look very good. Look at games like Crysis or Gears of War. They don't need pre-rendering. Even GTA IV doesn't need it. As far as I'm concerned, pre-rendering will begin to get smaller, which will then result in much better work spent creating video games, so Reflections shouldn't use pre-rendered cut scenes at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have to agree but those pre rendered scenes look so good.

[FutureVenturer2]

I did not say that all game developers have already the potential to create graphics that go as far as Gears of War or Crysis. It will very likely take at least a year for another game to surpass Gears of War, and maybe more than a year to go past Crysis's CryEngine 2. Then again, it's possible that it can happen at any moment. As soon as a game developer finds some very talented artists and either decides to take up the Unreal 3 Engine, or the CryEngine 2, this could mean that they have a slight chance at beating Epic Game's Gears of War or Crytek's Crysis in terms of visuals.

Games have always been the point of interaction. They are not about watching. And the thing which makes me all the more uncomfortable is that games many times use cut scenes, and yet it is nothing special. Graphics. What is so special about pre-rendered cut scenes? It just proves that artists have nothing better to do in terms of real-time graphics and that they really aren't as talented as they believe they are. Cut scenes only would be good for a game if it is going to really raise questions or drive a game through using its emotions. If a game doesn't have one or two of the following, it is nothing significant at all. The only developers whose games actually contained emotions and raised questions were Square Enix (the Final Fantasy series) and Kojima Productions (the Metal Gear series). Every other developer just seems to only look one way; entertainment. And believe me, some developers have already learned to live without the use of cut scenes. Why is it so hard for others to learn to look beyond cut scenes? Valve, the studio which created the Half Life series and, 2K Australia, the studio which created Bioshock, didn't need to use cut scenes at all throughout the game, except that, in the beginning of Bioshock, you're introduced to the main character, but other than that, these games have no cutscenes at all. Also, they still are able to use emotions and to bring up questions, so why is it that other developers can't learn to look past video games as nothing more than the "child of movies?" Video games should've always tried to look past being nothing more than a watching experience at some point, instead choosing to be 100% interactive. Even when 2-D was too hard to make possible for us to look past pixels game developers could've used their own styles of designing their games to ensure that cut scenes wouldn't be needed.

How are video games ever going to reach virtual reality if we keep getting a single cut scene, at one point, throughout almost every video game that becomes available? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[J_Frumpleberg]

Well I'm tired of arguing just for the sake of arguing. Seemed funny at the time, now its just annoying.

I always hate how cutscenes steal the action, because action is for gameplay, and putting the action (gunfight in D3) into a cutscene is basically admitting you suck at programming.

All the time and money they spent perfecting the graphics (though they did look nice) could've been better spent on programmers. Cutscenes included, I'd rather have real-time cutscenes anyway because then you don't have 2 completely different looking versions of the same world.

Not to mention graphics slow down the system when overdone, and slow down is the enemy in racing and action games. We need to be able to drive fast and have plenty of destruction going on without much slow down. And plenty of cops on the tail, smoke from explosions, etc. all the cool stuff.

[J_Frumpleberg]

So if they get rid of the fancy cutscenes, it'll be GTA? If they actually work to make the game good instead of hiding behind pretty graphics, it'll be GTA? Maybe Driver should just go on sucking then.

[FutureVenturer2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Well I'm tired of arguing just for the sake of arguing. Seemed funny at the time, now its just annoying.

I always hate how cutscenes steal the action, because action is for gameplay, and putting the action (gunfight in D3) into a cutscene is basically admitting you suck at programming.

All the time and money they spent perfecting the graphics (though they did look nice) could've been better spent on programmers. Cutscenes included, I'd rather have real-time cutscenes anyway because then you don't have 2 completely different looking versions of the same world.

Not to mention graphics slow down the system when overdone, and slow down is the enemy in racing and action games. We need to be able to drive fast and have plenty of destruction going on without much slow down. And plenty of cops on the tail, smoke from explosions, etc. all the cool stuff. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally agree with you on this topic, J_Frumpleberg. Developers need to get over the idea of how hard it is to drive a storyline forward without cut scenes. The biggest problem is that many developers don't even try to make a game without the use of cut scenes because they're too afraid. Bioshock shows exactly how narrative can be powerful and not need the inclusion of cut scenes.

Programmers are better off replacing the people in the development process that are about the special effects. Screw special effects. Action used to look incredible at around several decades ago, as to how the quality was, but that is all in the past. Reflections, please don't make a fool of your staff. Choose to go the direction of real-time cut scenes, to say the least. This generation is already warming up in its ability to bring impressive textures together, such that I'll be fine with however you choose to go with the graphics for the actual game itself (as long as they're detailed and fit the concept of the game well).

smiler_16, if you like CGI sequences so much, go ahead and watch a movie because video games will never compare as greatly in terms of graphics to that of the movies industry. I do recall you saying that you made a mod for San Andreas. It seems to prove how loyal you are to the Driver franchise. The only support you've been giving is already what perhaps everyone else could think of at level 1, and that is the ideas which went into a recent game (particularly GTA IV). The truly loyal Driver fans that come here are the ones who try to rip up the most unnecessary aspects of a franchise they've come to love so much, in favor of improving on all of the most important features.

Here is what I think of the things that are only necessary for the game, as my wishlist shows forth:

- contains motorbikes and automobiles: a large variety of different types

- has the best survival on-foot elements ever possible: melee combat (basic attacks, along with maybe even some CQC), running, swimming, jumping, rolling (as in MGS4), climbing, shimmying along ledges, crouching, crawling, hanging, use of guns (not the other weapons, which are of little importance or need), stealth, opening/closing/bashing the door, turning lights on/off, making noises (to distract the enemy or to get his/her attention), and to high jack vehicles.

- A storyline full of emotions and one that speaks about the city and its characters, making everything seem much like the world we are filled with, but to see it through the various dangerous crimes, and sometimes the horrors behind crime). The main character should be a very developed and realistic character, showing all kinds of emotions throughout the game.

- missions that are really open-ended and help determine the outcome of the storyline

- a place (much like in Driv3r's Miami) where you can store weapons and any vehicles that you'd like to have)

- highly intense car chases that are filled with realistic tactics enforced by the law (just as on any reality shows on car chases)

- realistic physics for vehicles and the people within the game

- many different ways to customize your guns

- over 20 guns (to say the least)

- over 100 vehicles that are available for you to drive, along with some extras that you can just ride as a passenger in (trains, subways)

- music that fits the locations well and the storyline well

- AI that can attack in many different ways to take you down

- Getting every inch of a bug/glitch out of the game

- Beautiful, photorealistic graphics for everything within the game

- realistic driving/simulation elements (dirtying your car from a splash of mud, going to the car wash to clean it up, fixing up your car with auto parts, etc.)

- a First person view (meaning that we won't see the main character): This can really help remove the need of any cut scenes. If the whole game was based around you looking through the eyes of the protagonist, it would make the whole world feel much more different from a GTA game. Who really needs third person in every single open-world game anyway? After all, the Elder Scrolls games feature FP view and they've worked pretty well with it, so why not have that be around for D4? Also, this could really make the aiming/targeting system function a lot more realisticly, and performing all kinds of actions would seem very interesting to see from a first person perspective. Even driving in your vehicle would have you be in first person view (or, in other words, the dashboard view always) and it would bring you and the experience together.

This is just about everything which the game needs.

[J_Frumpleberg]

What I was saying Smiler is that instead of wasting money paying people to work for hours and hours on cutscenes, they could've more wisely spent the money on figuring out why the game sucked and fixing that instead.

So no, its not magic, its funding priorities. They already have in game graphics, now just add movement of the characters and wa-la! Cutscene! Extra fancy cutscenes require lots more time on graphics, and whats the point? Make a movie rather than a game if you want it to look that good!

[FutureVenturer2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
What I was saying Smiler is that instead of wasting money paying people to work for hours and hours on cutscenes, they could've more wisely spent the money on figuring out why the game sucked and fixing that instead.

So no, its not magic, its funding priorities. They already have in game graphics, now just add movement of the characters and wa-la! Cutscene! Extra fancy cutscenes require lots more time on graphics, and whats the point? Make a movie rather than a game if you want it to look that good! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

[J_Frumpleberg]

Well I've gone into way too much detail on the subject before, I only want to ask for one thing, if theres more, great! (and yes I still do want more, but I'm dissapointed with GTA4)

All I want anymore is kick-*** driving action in a great city with lots of landscape variety around each corner. And I know Reflections can make that happen. Hey, they did it once! Sorry guys!

[dream-of-Revs]

Here you will find the wishlists from the Driver-4.com community : Click here (http://www.driver-4.com/wishlists.php)

[FutureVenturer2]

This is the second time in a long time since I've ever been speechless on the subject of a Driver game. By saying that I'm speechless, I mean that I have nothing interesting left to talk about. It seems as if I've reached my limits in the different ideas and suggestions that I have had to say about the Driver franchise. There were so many points, arguements, and opinions that I've had, I simply can't think up anything else that this franchise needs, besides those things which I've recently shown in my second to last post in this topic. And perhaps the biggest, yet simple contribution which Reflections must make is to go away from the direction of the GTA franchise. Although I've got nothing left to say in any topic surrounding the Driver franchise, it doesn't guarantee that I won't come here ever again. Maybe there will be more for me to say after we've gotten info about the next Driver game, but I've practically gone over every important element which it needs, according to my point of view.

Edit: I've actually thought up more that can be and should be used for the next Driver game, which can be seen in my edited post that talks about both cut scenes and the necessary things that D4 needs.

[J_Frumpleberg]

Yea I used to post ideas all the time, but I think theres too many ideas floating around in here for Reflections to keep up, and even if they were to try and program a few ideas, they would be daunting tasks.

And thats also one of the things I've realized about myself, among many other things, when I wanted to make a Driver website, I had tons of ideas, and I kept building and building on those ideas rather than get to work making the actual site, by the time I do want to sit down and make the site, its a huge task ahead of me, and often I don't get past even one page. And that page sucks compared to how I wanted it to be.

It sucks being a perfectionist, very frustrating, nothing ever gets finished. Trying not to be one is hard to perfect.

[FutureVenturer2]

Lets also hope that Reflections does create D4 with its own style, rather than ripping 70% or more parts of GTA IV, just to help improve the game. I want the game to be extremely well done, both in its story, in its self expression, and in the free-roam gameplay. Most of all, I also want the game to be polished in every aspect that a game can be reviewed upon.

[driver_madness]

Yeah, their are proably way to many wishes.
Some seem a little unrealistic to but there still interesting.

I always would have liked to see a good structure for organising these wishes. That's one of my plans for the driverwiki, so I'll proably go around atari community, these forums and many other forums to collect gather and organise other peoples ideas.

Just reading post after post with screenfalls of text kind of bores me and does get a little repetitive with people having similar ideas.

[driver_madness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by smiler_16:
Some of us on here agree that going to the pub for a drink may be a good feature to add, and with the abillity to choose how drunk you get by the amount that you drink, would give you the abillity to choose how difficult you would like those handbrake turns to be and how bad your vision would be, and also i like the idea of turning too many times would cause you to pull over and be sick out of your door... although it may be difficult if your planning on using the same engine as Driver: Parallel Lines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The next driver would most likly not use the dpl engine, they would have to re-write the engine if they are using next generation technology.

They could use the same engine if they wanted to but they would have to make some modifications. For starters they could already use the code they used to create the "Far Out" cheat affect and change the variables depending on how drunk you are.

[J_Frumpleberg]

I liked the far out cheat more than GTA4's getting drunk mode. Driving drunk is not that hard, pff!

I too have thought of ways of categorizing the wishlist, it can be done, except its a daunting task, and Driver, ney, videogames in general, are not on my mind very much anymore. Which is why I am not on here too much, or at least not posting in every thread. Probably the same way Reflections feels about reading the ideas.

And I thought about it some more, getting a next gen console. I'm not sure its worth it for me unless I get into some other games. I wish videogame stores worked like music stores, where you could scan the bar code and then play the game, at least a demo. I do need a new dvd player though.

[driver_madness]

I might take a stab at categorizing them someday!

yeah, I know what your mean.
I don't own a next-gen console yet, there really too expensive.
and I really guess I don't have the time anymore.

I wish I did!
But then I still proably wouldn't play many games anymore because I'd be working in improving other skills rather than my driving skills in d3 or driver: parallel lines http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
It says the same thing as all your other posts:
"something something something art something something something meaningful..." etc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let me tell you something, J_Frumpleberg. Video games are behind that of movies and every other medium because they're currently only at a stage where it's all about narrative and entertainment, which is also why there hasn't been so much innovation throughout the years. I can tell you now that movies grew more vastly in terms of concepts, ideas, and innovation, simply because their studios had decided to look further than just the likes of entertainment. They referred back to literature, in that they were able to discover that movies can work in only so many different ways. And yet many developers are looking into movies, but they're missing the point that it's more than just about entertainment and about the story. Certain games don't need stories at all, but for those which do have stories, they might as well have some very different ones in terms of their own themes.

Why is it that so many developers have merely nothing more than improvement over that of existing game formulas? Do you wish to know? I can tell you that the blame for this is mostly that developers haven't looked any deeper than they could've. Everyone has a chance of possibly employing a video game that changes the way we've experienced games in the past, but too many developers, as well as their publishers, care for money more than for their passion in designing games.

When games had been taken to a whole new level, this happened around the time of both soon after the 1983 stock market crashed, which was when the U.S.'s many companies working in the video game industry got lost. Thanks to a previously trading card company, now a video game company, called Nintendo, we were saved and didn't lose the world of video games. I think that if you look carefully at the world's history, it may be true that only the darkest times of our lives were when we actually saw people stand up to the challenge and bring forth true art and significant changes for our society. This happened in the Great Renaissance, as did it happen during WWI, WWII, and during the Cold War. In fact, it's very fascinating to know how many different talented studios created their own films during the times of the Cold War. My point is that we may never truly see a time where games will vastly see innovation and growth, or better yet, have them reach that level of culture and self expression, which goes beyond just the good narrative that is present in many games today. I guess that we are quite out of luck until we are able to see a time like that happen. But it should never be kept out of our minds of how much significance art has been in driving messages through so many of our families, from generation to generation. Fine arts and music, as well as literature, in the old days, were all which we had to ourselves, and we took great pride in them, hopefully for more than the sake of fun.

Therefore, I don't know if there will ever come a time that we'll soon see games reach that level of high art, as all the previous mediums have already done so, but we should at least consider to work that much harder for a successful life. I want to make my family proud, and I want to make sure that, for every generation that passes, it'll continue to grow better and better, driving knowledge and morality into the minds of my people. But sometimes, it won't be me, nor will it be someone's own family member who is responsible for changing their paths, either for good or bad, but it'll be the art that is contained within mass media. I sure hope that society will not piss up to the likes of Rockstar North and other big bad influences because only bad will come from people like this. Maybe you haven't already a clue about what games are truly right for society and, for that matter, don't care whatsoever. Also, if you had thought of including art in every medium, maybe you would've not gone wasting so much of your time with video games because you'd know that, while it is good to enjoy yourself and to learn more, your life must go on, letting nothing as small as playing video games ruin your future. But you didn't get that to work, did you? As you can see, art is what clears our minds with more understanding, about how we must live. Taking your time on video games each day for less than 2 hrs. may not be bad at all. Heck, you can play video games for only 30 minutes a day. From there, you'll have lots of time to do other things, and you'll learn more as well as have fun doing it. And, if you one day have nothing interesting to discuss, you can always think back to something which a particular video game has taught you that is so important. Take my word for it. This is all that I have left to say to you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Future Venturer 2,

That is an intelligently thought out post. An exciting post to read? That's subjective, but probably "boring" to most gamers who stumble onto this thread. But that's also the point I'm making below in a nutshell.

As far as "ART" in a Driver game, I do understand that you want more meaning in your games, and there's nothing wrong with that, as life in general could use plenty more meaningful experiences that help you gain more intelligence, wisdom and all that rather than repeat the same formula (like waiting in lines for example); however, also consider the following:

How many gamers care about art, when there's fun to be had?

When you hop on a roller coaster, do you seek meaning in the experience?

When someone goes to a circus, should they ask "What is the meaning of all of this? Where is the art beyond the appearance of the clown? What knowledge lies beneath?"

When someone eats an ice cream sundae, should they think, "E=MC2"?

When you sled down a fast, snowy slope at full speed, the cold breeze blasting over your face, do you at the same time think, "Art is about meaning, and meaning is about finding the inner wisdom of intelligence, which is subjective but also objective at the same time, when considerations of introspection are involved, thus rendering such thinking as centrifugal, without resonating the inner thought before art is conceived. Can Art equal the reality of truth, or does truth equal art, but on a secondary level beneath the concept of reality transferred from the inner mind? Such is the question, when pondering art in experiences that instigate blood flow faster than usual, often resulting in the edges of the mouth to raise on each end"?

When something jumps out at you in a dark alley, do you think while your heart is beating out of your chest, "Is reality altered by dreams, or are dreams reflective of reality?"

My point is, some games like DRIVER are really about having fun, (if of course the gamer isn't first frustrated out of their mind by the high difficulty and repetitive nature of later missions).

Games with strong story lines like Oblivion on the other hand have more reason to create an enlightening storyline. I don't think Philosophical thinking about how a game conveys art, mixes well with a game like Driver, but prove me wrong.

Just a thought.

[FutureVenturer2]

I've pretty much finished discussing that apart from the Driver franchise, InsaneDriver06. You may want to read my post that I made on page 12 of this topic that contains a point about cut scenes and which includes a wishlist of all the things that I feel are necessary for the Driver franchise to continue to focus on, particularly, beginning with Driver 4.

Other than that, I'm pretty dried up and out of anything else to discuss. Every possible arguement, discussion, and topic has been made/focused on that I cannot come up with anymore to say.

Please, InsaneDriver06, if you're going to look at any posts, try to read all the previous ones that you've missed, and look up to the most recent ones that catch your interest. In other words, you should look at that post that talks about why we shouldn't have cut scenes and which also includes a wishlist (possibly my last one). I may not have much left to say, but at least then I can see what you think of it, so reading will possibly still be an option for me at this place, if I won't feel like posting at certain points of time.

Edit: I seriously hope that Reflections will consider the last wishlist of mine as one of the key ways to help drive its future Driver games to success.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
I've pretty much finished discussing that apart from the Driver franchise, InsaneDriver06. You may want to read my post that I made on page 12 of this topic that contains a point about cut scenes and which includes a wishlist of all the things that I feel are necessary for the Driver franchise to continue to focus on, particularly, beginning with Driver 4.

Other than that, I'm pretty dried up and out of anything else to discuss. Every possible arguement, discussion, and topic has been made/focused on that I cannot come up with anymore to say.

Please, InsaneDriver06, if you're going to look at any posts, try to read all the previous ones that you've missed, and look up to the most recent ones that catch your interest. In other words, you should look at that post that talks about why we shouldn't have cut scenes and which also includes a wishlist (possibly my last one). I may not have much left to say, but at least then I can see what you think of it, so reading will possibly still be an option for me at this place, if I won't feel like posting at certain points of time.

Edit: I seriously hope that Reflections will consider the last wishlist of mine as one of the key ways to help drive its future Driver games to success. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to get off topic, but one reason I didn't read all the details of your previous posts is due to their EPIC length (kind of my point from my previous lengthy post), which I don't have enough time in the day to read. At the very least, they've made you a better writer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WISHLIST:
Give us some cities and towns without loading, but beyond the city, Reflections really needs to give us tons of backroads to explore, far beyond buildings. RURAL ROADS offer an entirely different driving experience not found in a city. Winding backroads versus squared off city roads.

[FutureVenturer2]

I've taken the liberty of allowing you to look at a part of my post, the part which contains a wishlist (my very last one).

This is what my most recent wishlist looks like for Driver 4:

- contains motorbikes and automobiles: a large variety of different types

- has the best survival on-foot elements ever possible: melee combat (basic attacks, along with maybe even some CQC), running, swimming, jumping, rolling (as in MGS4), climbing, shimmying along ledges, crouching, crawling, hanging, use of guns (not the other weapons, which are of little importance or need), stealth, opening/closing/bashing the door, turning lights on/off, making noises (to distract the enemy or to get his/her attention), and to high jack vehicles.

- A storyline full of emotions and one that speaks about the city and its characters, making everything seem much like the world we are filled with, but to see it through the various dangerous crimes, and sometimes the horrors behind crime). The main character should be a very developed and realistic character, showing all kinds of emotions throughout the game.

- missions that are really open-ended and help determine the outcome of the storyline

- a place (much like in Driv3r's Miami) where you can store weapons and any vehicles that you'd like to have)

- highly intense car chases that are filled with realistic tactics enforced by the law (just as on any reality shows on car chases)

- realistic physics for vehicles and the people within the game

- many different ways to customize your guns

- over 20 guns (to say the least)

- over 100 vehicles that are available for you to drive, along with some extras that you can just ride as a passenger in (trains, subways)

- music that fits the locations well and the storyline well

- AI that can attack in many different ways to take you down

- Getting every inch of a bug/glitch out of the game

- Beautiful, photorealistic graphics for everything within the game

- realistic driving/simulation elements (dirtying your car from a splash of mud, going to the car wash to clean it up, fixing up your car with auto parts, etc.)

- a First person view (meaning that we won't see the main character): This can really help remove the need of any cut scenes. If the whole game was based around you looking through the eyes of the protagonist, it would make the whole world feel much more different from a GTA game. Who really needs third person in every single open-world game anyway? After all, the Elder Scrolls games feature FP view and they've worked pretty well with it, so why not have that be around for D4? Also, this could really make the aiming/targeting system function a lot more realisticly, and performing all kinds of actions would seem very interesting to see from a first person perspective. Even driving in your vehicle would have you be in first person view (or, in other words, the dashboard view always) and it would bring you and the game together.

[smiler_16]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
I've taken the liberty of allowing you to look at a part of my post, the part which contains a wishlist (my very last one).

This is what my most recent wishlist looks like for Driver 4:

- contains motorbikes and automobiles: a large variety of different types

- has the best survival on-foot elements ever possible: melee combat (basic attacks, along with maybe even some CQC), running, swimming, jumping, rolling (as in MGS4), climbing, shimmying along ledges, crouching, crawling, hanging, use of guns (not the other weapons, which are of little importance or need), stealth, opening/closing/bashing the door, turning lights on/off, making noises (to distract the enemy or to get his/her attention), and to high jack vehicles.

- A storyline full of emotions and one that speaks about the city and its characters, making everything seem much like the world we are filled with, but to see it through the various dangerous crimes, and sometimes the horrors behind crime). The main character should be a very developed and realistic character, showing all kinds of emotions throughout the game.

- missions that are really open-ended and help determine the outcome of the storyline

- a place (much like in Driv3r's Miami) where you can store weapons and any vehicles that you'd like to have)

- highly intense car chases that are filled with realistic tactics enforced by the law (just as on any reality shows on car chases)

- realistic physics for vehicles and the people within the game

- many different ways to customize your guns

- over 20 guns (to say the least)

- over 100 vehicles that are available for you to drive, along with some extras that you can just ride as a passenger in (trains, subways)

- music that fits the locations well and the storyline well

- AI that can attack in many different ways to take you down

- Getting every inch of a bug/glitch out of the game

- Beautiful, photorealistic graphics for everything within the game

- realistic driving/simulation elements (dirtying your car from a splash of mud, going to the car wash to clean it up, fixing up your car with auto parts, etc.)

- a First person view (meaning that we won't see the main character): This can really help remove the need of any cut scenes. If the whole game was based around you looking through the eyes of the protagonist, it would make the whole world feel much more different from a GTA game. Who really needs third person in every single open-world game anyway? After all, the Elder Scrolls games feature FP view and they've worked pretty well with it, so why not have that be around for D4? Also, this could really make the aiming/targeting system function a lot more realisticly, and performing all kinds of actions would seem very interesting to see from a first person perspective. Even driving in your vehicle would have you be in first person view (or, in other words, the dashboard view always) and it would bring you and the game together. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just go and buy an FPS game!!!!

I dont want Reflections losing all of the best features to "Drive"r because people like you want an FPS game
If you want all of that then buy Crysis or FarCry 2!!

dont go destroying these forums with that BS (Go to an FPS games forum!!!) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[FutureVenturer2]

You don't know what first-person view means? Well, it seems like it because you automatically think that as soon as a game is with a first-person view, it has to be a shooter. You're incorrect. I don't want Driver to be a first-person shooter. I just would like its camera view to change from third person (seeing the back of your character) to a first-person view (seeing through the eyes of the character himself/herself). Jeez, you really need to learn the various video game terms better. Since you're a modder, I would've expected for you to know the difference. As a favor for you, I'll be kind enough to give you a comparison of the various camera views, and I'll explain to you each and every one of them.

First-Person View: This view has you seeing everything that is in front of you, so you can't see your main character. This gives you a better illusion in that you are actually witin the world of the game. You can see yourself wielding any weapons in your hands.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/6169484-full.jpg
A screen shot of Halo 3 in the first-person view.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/obliv25B.jpg
A screen shot of an open-world action RPG game called Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, seen from a first-person perspective.

Third-Person View: It is the field of vision in which you see the back of your character, and the camera allows you to see his/her whole body. The place in which your character is standing will keep you from seeing everything that is ahead, so the first-person view gives you a full sight of what is up ahead. However, this view allows you to see your character for what he/she truly looks like.


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/gtaIII.gif
A screen shot of Claude in GTA III in the third-person view.

Fixed Camera View: This view is done almost in the same way as that of a movie. The camera angles always change after pasting far enough. They're done to make it feel as if you're in a movie.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/xbcpirlvog.jpg
Resident Evil 2 screen shot where the main character is shown far away from the camera and the enemy is up close to the camera.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/05.jpg
Another screen shot, this time of Resident Evil 0, with a fixed camera view again.

Side-scrolling view: This is a view which every 2-D game uses. You can only see one side of wherever you're going (left to right, usually). Sometimes, the view can go from bottom to top, which is often seen in side-scrolling shooters, such as Ikaruga.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/42984.png
This screenshot is an example of a game with a side-scrolling view.


Top-Down View: As you're moving through the game, you see everything from a helicopter-like camera view, just as you'd expected from car chases in movies such as 2Fast 2Furious.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/KamilWota/gta2multi.jpg
This is a picture of GTA 2 with a top-down view

[Driverman2006]

One wish I have for the next Driver game is that on automatic-shift road vehicles, let's actually shift gears. Like pulling the shifter out of Park and putting it into Drive. And when you put it into Drive, let the vehicle coast at a slow speed. And while you're accelerating and let off the gas, don't make the vehicle come to a complete stop like in the previous Driver games, let it coast and lose speed slowly. The brakes should make it come to a complete stop.

[smiler_16]

Well i've modified the positions of your "wishes" in this quote and placed tgether the driving and on foot "wishes"
and if you look at them you'll see that most of them are wishes for an on foot shoot 'em' up

(5 on foot "wishes", and 3 Driving "Wishes")
(3 of them are detailed on foot ideas)
(2 are rediculous in car ideas)
(1 in car idea which is obvious)


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:

1. has the best survival on-foot elements ever possible: melee combat (basic attacks, along with maybe even some CQC), running, swimming, jumping, rolling (as in MGS4), climbing, shimmying along ledges, crouching, crawling, hanging, use of guns (not the other weapons, which are of little importance or need), stealth, opening/closing/bashing the door, turning lights on/off, making noises (to distract the enemy or to get his/her attention), and to high jack vehicles.

2. A storyline full of emotions and one that speaks about the city and its characters, making everything seem much like the world we are filled with, but to see it through the various dangerous crimes, and sometimes the horrors behind crime). The main character should be a very developed and realistic character, showing all kinds of emotions throughout the game.

3. many different ways to customize your guns

4. over 20 guns (to say the least)

5. a First person view (meaning that we won't see the main character): This can really help remove the need of any cut scenes. If the whole game was based around you looking through the eyes of the protagonist, it would make the whole world feel much more different from a GTA game. Who really needs third person in every single open-world game anyway? After all, the Elder Scrolls games feature FP view and they've worked pretty well with it, so why not have that be around for D4? Also, this could really make the aiming/targeting system function a lot more realisticly, and performing all kinds of actions would seem very interesting to see from a first person perspective.


Driving:



1. highly intense car chases that are filled with realistic tactics enforced by the law (just as on any reality shows on car chases)

2. over 100 vehicles that are available for you to drive, along with some extras that you can just ride as a passenger in (trains, subways)


3. realistic driving/simulation elements (dirtying your car from a splash of mud, going to the car wash to clean it up, fixing up your car with auto parts, etc.)

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just go and buy a shoot 'em' up of some kind,

We dont want a shoot 'em' up we want a Driving Game!! (hence the name DRIVER)
and the Driver games that included too many shooting missions are the ones which were slated!
(it may be good to have the on foot feature, but only when you need to change your car!)

[FutureVenturer2]

smiler_16, I understand that you want Driver to be as much focused on the driving as possible because I thought before that it should be focused mostly, if not only on driving, but then I thought through its concept more. Driver: You Are The Wheelman was intended to feature car chases, but it also had a criminal story behind it, so it made a lot of sense to include on-foot in its sequels. If Driver was supposed to focus on racing other vehicles then it would be right of Ubisoft Reflections to make it so that you're only able to drive a vehicle. However, that wasn't the case. Instead, the game puts a focus on an undercover cop named Tanner. Basically, the franchise was intended to focus on not only the vehicles, but to focus on the characters as well. After all, the first game took inspirations from car chase movies, and Bullitt offered a detective/cop, which the franchise took in as an idea for the main character (except DPL and D76).

"Driver" was a title that Ubisoft Reflections intended for the franchise, but since when does the title of a game, movie, book, etc. tell us exactly everything about it? J_Frumpleberg, also known as Matt_jon, made it very clear that a name shouldn't determine the whole concept of an IP or franchise. If the Metal Gear franchise was about nothing else but "Metal Gears" that you can use or fight, it would not make any sense. This is the same as if you heard a book called "Rabbit." You wouldn't think that it's only about a rabbit. Of course, there need to be several other characters involved in the story, and maybe not all of them are rabbits.

Another serious factor to think thoroughly is that while some people can live just with the driving, others would want it to be open-ended, so they'd also expect the game to offer on-foot. There are so many complications that the Driver franchise must be more than about driving. After all, its genres are racing and action-adventure, which consist of exploring, on-foot, shooting, and driving.

Lets just have Ubisoft Reflections make the driving as much realistic as possible, while also adding realism and a great variety to the open-ended structure of the game. I'm not specifically saying that I want a game that's exactly like GTA IV, but I do want some kind of open-ended elements, along with many important driving and on-foot features that will aid the player and that will make the entire experience an impressive one.

[smiler_16]

if it was like GTA then there would be no point in buying the game because R*/T2 is a much bigger company than Reflections/Ubi, so no matter what Driver would just be a failing game...


But if you all basically want GTA then... well this games development ought to get shutdown now!

[FutureVenturer2]

I just mentioned GTA IV because that's most likely going to be somewhat, if not, a large approach set for Driver 4. No, I don't want D4 to be a copy of GTA IV. In fact, if I remember correctly, you were the one suggesting that D4 should offer drunk driving, along with other things (from GTA IV) that D4 needs to offer.

It is humiliating to see a developer take a whole piece of another developer's work and use it as its own. To be more exact on what D4 needs, I want to say that having the most open-ended structure is not the most important aspect of D4. Instead, as my wishlist shows, the on-foot and driving need to offer a lot of necessary choices for the player that connect largely to the story of the game. Therefore, things like going to buy things, killing innocent people, playing a minigame, etc. should not be the focus of this next Driver game. To ensure that this next Driver game will fix the Driver franchise, it needs to offer important elements that will be fine-tuned greatly, such that the AI will be impressive, and the main character will feel fun and interesting.

One thing that you must keep in mind is that car chases, like survival horror, is just a theme, not a genre or sub-genre, so it can be used to fit in almost any genre out there. Driver's real genre is action-adventure, so I'm hoping that the genre it has to offer will largely compliment the game, and that the car chases won't be taken as big as thinking of them that this element is a genre when it is just another theme.

[smiler_16]

I suggested the abillity to get drunk due to that adding more to the driving aspect, because once you have got the hang of driving then you need a new challenge to make it fun again, so adding more feature which would add to the incar mode would be great

I have to say out of all of your comments in this debate the one i think sounds like it would add massively is the in car first person view which would allow you to see the steering
wheel!!.

because that would also instanty add another 2 modes (Sober and P*ssed) so once you have got the hang of the exterior view then you can move on to the interior view!!

I reccomend Reflections to try Race Driver GRiD for an idea of what views we need and also the phisics!!

[FutureVenturer2]

I honestly don't give a **** about this franchise anymore. It's ****ed me off at so many occassions! This developer has screwed up 3/4 of its title, so I've just got no more reasons or hopes of seeing a very innovative and great title as D1 was. Thanks for nothing, Ubisoft Reflections. Need For Speed has had better car chases, in my opinion, simply because you can hear whatever the law enforcement is saying, and as soon as a NFS game adds realistic crashes, that'll be enough to satisify me and I won't ever need to look into Driver ever again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Social anxiety is ripping me apart!!!! What good does it do talking to other people on a forums? In the end, to me, it just seems like I'm talking to the computer, so I would very much love to stoppppppppppppppppppp pppoooooosstiiiiiiinnnnnggggg useless posts that will not change my life for the better at all.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

I'm seriously through with all of this. It's driven me to a point where I'll go to a new direction and I won't be coming back. Good riddens, Ubisoft Reflections, and its Driver fans. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

[smiler_16]

The Driver games aint that bad....

Yeah, sure they're not the greates, but they are still fun, and even now (although rarely) I get that sudden urge to Play Driv3r and do a few stunts/Smashups!!

I like the memorys that I have of D1 but when I play it again, I find it just feels... Dull... I'd preferre to leave it now because I want to remeber Driver as the best game I ever played as a kid!... and not just another old game.

[InsaneDriver06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
I honestly don't give a **** about this franchise anymore. It's ****ed me off at so many occassions! This developer has screwed up 3/4 of its title, so I've just got no more reasons or hopes of seeing a very innovative and great title as D1 was. Thanks for nothing, Ubisoft Reflections. Need For Speed has had better car chases, in my opinion, simply because you can hear whatever the law enforcement is saying, and as soon as a NFS game adds realistic crashes, that'll be enough to satisify me and I won't ever need to look into Driver ever again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Social anxiety is ripping me apart!!!! What good does it do talking to other people on a forums? In the end, to me, it just seems like I'm talking to the computer, so I would very much love to stoppppppppppppppppppp pppoooooosstiiiiiiinnnnnggggg useless posts that will not change my life for the better at all.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

I'm seriously through with all of this. It's driven me to a point where I'll go to a new direction and I won't be coming back. Good riddens, Ubisoft Reflections, and its Driver fans. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Assault Machine 1, Future Venturer 1 and 2, you've offered a lot of good ideas on the Atari forum under John Cena name, and a few good ones here as well.

I see you mentioned you're trying to solve some troubles. The best way to solve that problem is to "not care what anybody thinks of you or your ideas and whether you're good enough or not". Not an easy place to reach, but once you get there, you'll know it. True of anything in life where others are constantly judging your ideas, as you already know.

Best success with your career as an inventor, game designer, etc. Visit again when Reflections finally brings out the next Driver. Give it one final chance if it looks promising is all I ask as a Driver fan.

The waiting for the next game is taking a bit too long, but hopefully that means it's gonna kick A55.

--------------
Next Driver: The ability to reach 200+ mph in a desert runway area, mostly flat as far as the eyes can see, but portioned with some hills and ramps, so hitting a ramp will send you sky high for hundreds of yards. Give us something we can't experience in a City setting alone, and you'll expand the Driver possibilities Reflections/Ubisoft.

[FutureVenturer2]

It's been a while since we have actually talked in this topic. I would like to make it clear how there are so many games out there that offers HUDs (Heads-Up Displays), and that I don't want it in the next Driver game. There reason for this is because it makes a game feel less immersive. This is just like how a game can have such large and extreme limitations on freedom in gameplay, such that a player gets bored of the game sooner than he/she would if the game had more options. HUDs in computer and PC games include health/damage meters, speedometers, amount of ammo a weapon is carrying, an icon of a weapon/object, etc. It is basically something that is on-screen while you're playing a game that gets in the way of making the experience of the game feel immersive since it may take up lots of the screen that the player uses to see the world that is around him/her. Sometimes, there may be a small amount of HUDs in a game, but this may also detract from the feeling of being immersed in a created world. Certain games have been known for offering no HUDs at all. These titles include Silent Hill 2, Jurassic Park: Trespasser, Ico, The Getaway,Another World, King Kong, and Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth. Upcoming titles that promise to offer no HUDs include Mirror's Edge, Sadness, Aliens: Colonial Marines, and Champions Online (even though this game is not completely HUDless).

By choosing to make the next Driver game HUDless, or as HUDless as possible, this will make it look more unique, and not to mention that the Rockstar North hasn't considered to make use of such an idea yet, so this would be a great way to further innovate on free-roam gameplay, in ways that can help make the term "GTA clone" be less appropriate. Moreover, it will just feel like a very immersive experience, even if the next Driver doesn't offer as much freedom in gameplay as the current GTA games did.

To give you an idea of what it feels like to have a game that is as HUDless as possible, here are some videos of games that are nearly, if not completely HUDless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DmsDICPnjg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yMG8kSwrQ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owlseG6gVrU&feature=related

[InsaneDriver06]

I agree, the Heads Up Display with all those clunky meters and numbers and radars are mostly a distraction than a help, as I rarely watch a circle map while racing 140 mph down a busy street in DPL.

There should at the very least, be a way to shut off the HUD completely, like GTA kindly allows.

I agree, a HUD does take away from "being there". Driv3r's HUD was a good example of that. Pretty much useless meters that just took up space when the player could go by sight alone to determine what was happening onscreen.

Not that a HUD doesn't help, but "The Getaway" proves you don't need a HUD to play a game successfully. By the way, Sony dropped "The Getaway 2" for the PS3 from development. Canned project.

[J_Frumpleberg]

I hate having to look at the radar too.

I think if there is a point we must drive to, there should be a bright light shining straight up from the ground that can be seen from any point in the city, kind of like the lights they put at Ground Zero.

And as for directions, some games I've seen you can select directions (for those who aren't manly enough), they could just use the arrow system that arcade racers use for turns, only you could drive straight through them since this is free roam, and I would never want anything blocked off because it defeats the point of the whole game.

Although the Getaways screen did look a bit empty, I do prefer that look now. I don't nuerotically keep track of my ammo, damage, or felony. When they run out or run low, its easy to tell, maybe flash a low ammo for instances where you need to conserve what little ammo you have.