Next-Gen Driver Wishlist [Archive] - Page 3

brok2

07-02-2010, 06:58 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
I remember once saying I'd like to be able to outrun the cops in, say, a Ferrari. Either 3 or PL did kind of let you do this, in fact, the cops were way too slow, and it got boring fast.

Though it would be cool if a police Ferrari chased you instead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but now we're just in Need for Speed territory, completely removed from Driver. I can buy a mustang getting chased by a police Dodge, but what I can't accept is a game trying to make me believe that some guy's trying to escape in a Koenigsegg while being chased by a police... Ducatti Veyron??? What is this, is everyone on the planet a billionaire or something?

About the 'no markers' thing... I came up with this idea that would work pretty well for a stealth based mode, because I originally thought about it for a CTF mode while tooling around in Istanbul. I was just cruising down a street when I saw this garage up ahead, so I tried flipping a 180 and reversing in smoothly. Then I thought how fantastic it would be if such a move could shake someone closing on your position, say, if you had another team's flag.

I figured what if instead of a car marker for everyone to track on the radar, it only indicates which street the target car is in, and if it's a long street, say narrow it down to 2 or 3 block's worth. Just imagine the tension as you wait hidden in an alcove as the enemy slowly scans their way down the street, while your team try to organise themselves and come to assist?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:

Another wish I really want to see is Manual Stick Shifting. Why would Driver, a series that prides itself on getting cars to feel like the real thing, not include at least the OPTION for automatic or STICK SHIFT? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always wondered that too. Just imagine if the hardest difficulty for Driver involved manual only- That'd really seperate the wheelmen from the street punks...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kalle90:

4. 0-4 teams to assign players in
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

zero teams? You mean 1-4? Also the Bomb idea needs something a little more. If it was a fixed countdown it could just be bad luck that leaves you with the bomb at the end. If every transfer added a couple of seconds to the clock, then it would be a player's failure to pass it on that would get them killed- a bit more fair. Not to mention that the game becomes a hot potato thing that if they are all good enough could keep it from exploding for ages, until someone starts slipping up and the tension mounts as the time gets lower, and so on.

kalle90

07-02-2010, 10:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kalle90:

4. 0-4 teams to assign players in
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

zero teams? You mean 1-4? Also the Bomb idea needs something a little more. If it was a fixed countdown it could just be bad luck that leaves you with the bomb at the end. If every transfer added a couple of seconds to the clock, then it would be a player's failure to pass it on that would get them killed- a bit more fair. Not to mention that the game becomes a hot potato thing that if they are all good enough could keep it from exploding for ages, until someone starts slipping up and the tension mounts as the time gets lower, and so on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>´

Meaning there wouldn't be teams. I guess 1 team would be the same but that's open for misconception (8 players against 0 is instant win?!)

The bomb thing is easily solved with an option, but I do prefer no extra time. Managing to pass the bomb at the last second making the other die instantly is fulfilling. Or taking the risk to take it willingly so you get a chance to pass it over

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can understand smaller playing area for online and multiplayer, but for singleplayer I'd like to be able to take the action across the city if I wanted to </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would still prefer an option to use the small maps in single player.

More and more games use the story mode levels in multiplayer. It would be little fuzz to divide the San Francisco into smaller regions and even smaller sections.

Let's say a map list like:
1. San Fransisco (Full)
2. Region 1 (1/3 of San Fransisco)
- Sublevels like Downtown, Townsquare, Alleys
3. Region 2 (1/3 of SF)
- Sublevels like Suburb, Parking lot, Stadium
4. Region 3 (1/3 of SF)
- Sublevels like Farmside, Beach, Highway

Here's the inspiration other than Driver2 behind my thoughts:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...8kWk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7GPBjf8kWk&feature=related) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

InsaneDriver06

07-02-2010, 07:18 PM

I can see why setting online inside a smaller area would keep players together, but it's really limiting the vision of what an online game can be. Just play Test Drive Unlimited online. It's 1000 miles of road to find other racers on.

But I see your point, why have to spend half your time searching for other racers...

WISH LIST: Motorcycles in DSF, Trinkets to hang from the rearview mirror, that sway with the car's movements.

brok2

07-02-2010, 07:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
I can see why setting online inside a smaller area would keep players together, but it's really limiting the vision of what an online game can be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think so- I'd have to agree with kalle90. Small, enclosed and well designed arenas are the way to go. As long as there's a free roam option as well it's all good. GTA IV's multiplayer didn't really benefit much from being so open, like TDU there was more time spent driving alone to get to the other people. If you keep it more contained and closer, then the action is much more frenetic.

InsaneDriver06

07-02-2010, 07:52 PM

You're probably right about that for a driving game. Though TDU2 is still going to offer tons more freedom and it's fan base is still growing, so things won't get stale in one small zone, as TDU2 offers 2 massive islands, over 2000 miles of roads and terrain.

brok2

07-02-2010, 08:20 PM

Well yeah, I'd never suggest that TDU2 be enclosed, because being massively open was always it's strength, and what it's fans came for.

But Driver, based on movie chases, is more suited to tight alleys and twisting corners. A chase that goes in a straight line from one end of a desert to the other is nowhere near as good as one through a shopping complex, for example.

I forgot to mention Matt's idea of the pause menu being the main menu- For earlier drivers in multiple cities I don't think it could've worked, but for a single city game it makes a lot of sense. It would probably save quite a bit of loading time too, though not all of it, as even moving to another part of the city would need to draw trees, load textures etc. Brings to mind Just Cause 2's helicopter evac thing, where it would show what part of the map you were moving to, meanwhile the game is loading the area out of sight behind the map. It's a good idea.

InsaneDriver06

07-02-2010, 08:25 PM

If by closed in zone, would the size of Liberty City's Staunton Island middle city from GTA3 be about the right size? Not the whole game, just one city.

brok2

07-02-2010, 08:37 PM

Roughly that, yeah, though more circular. At least for the games that need a bigger area like 2 flag CTF and the chase games. That video of bomb tag above had a much smaller area that worked pretty well for it, and would be ideal for the games that involved multiple cars trying to contact one another for points, like keep away, virus/zombie type games etc.

InsaneDriver06

07-02-2010, 08:40 PM

That would increase the chances for constant action, so it's probably a good idea.

kalle90

07-03-2010, 02:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
I can see why setting online inside a smaller area would keep players together, but it's really limiting the vision of what an online game can be. Just play Test Drive Unlimited online. It's 1000 miles of road to find other racers on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I said that you could choose between entire city or smaller regions or even smaller areas. Because Reflections has done the entire San Francisco making that happen is just a matter of placing a few walls and spawnpoints here and there, possibly making them a bit more symmetrical too.

I like things kept intense. I can still drive fast and turn nice in smaller area, but the other drivers won't be so far. IMO that's not any sort of limiting as the worlds of TDU and BParadise are dull when I want a focused match

IMO the smallest one should be like a Parking lot, perfect for simple destruction derby or a weird football-like CTF, areas like Downtown would be a bit bigger with multiple intersections and a road circling the entire area...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...8kWk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7GPBjf8kWk&feature=related) Notice the mini-map in the bottom right corner.

Oh and I forgot the "Protection" gametype in which the team has to protect the leader car. There could be some score zones for leaders and normal players could respawn as long as their leader is in game

brok2

07-04-2010, 08:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kalle90:
areas like Downtown would be a bit bigger with multiple intersections and a road circling the entire area... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah that's how I always saw it too- once you grabbed the enemy flag or equivalent, to get to the opposite end of the arena you could choose to roar around the longer but more straightforward perimeter road, or chance the winding inner streets and alleys of the middle, probably being a bit slower but also being much harder to catch...

J_Frumpleberg

07-04-2010, 08:16 AM

Well it looks like we'll have pretty decent load times for warping around town, as shown in the shift video, which is really an advanced "pick your start point" feature, very nice I might say, as I've always wished we could pick our own start point as opposed to the same 4 we got in D3, or just one in earlier games

***EDIT***
Shift mode menu option:
Lay down "speed strips" as seen in arcade racing games that immediately catapult you to top speed, it could be fun messing with traffic like this, imagine intersection cross traffic at 200 mph!!! Launch cars sideways for great flipping action

I remember asking for a stuntman mode in the driving games. I'd still like this to be true. Last night I pulled out Stuntman, and man, is that game hard! I think it could offer you stunt challenges, and also use the city as a stunt arena.

Mainly I'm sort of ****ed they sold the license to that game, DARN IT ALL!!! Stupid Atari!!!

And if you take a look at PC gaming, the best reason to be a PC gamer is modding. I know we can't really mod console games, but take a page from it. A lot of mods let you spawn objects and vehicles (ramps?), and just let you have nearly complete control over the game. It'd be tough to implement, but I think it would pay off, seeing as not to many console games have such a feature that I know of.

J_Frumpleberg

07-06-2010, 05:31 AM

*bump*

Hey look I edited my last post!

PeaceMaker_101

07-07-2010, 02:30 PM

There are several new things that I have read up on open world games, and I think that by mentioning those problems here, I should help Ubisoft Reflections notice the problems that occur in various (not all) open world games.

One of the problems is that many games force you to do too much traveling, where you might have to drive for 5-10 minutes to get to a mission in Burnout: Paradise . It can get really annoying to move from one side of the map to the other, just to start a mission. Some games claim to offer hours upon hours of replay value, but who would like to spend half of his/her time traveling from one place to another to get to an objective? Fortunately, the recent GTA IV episode, The Ballad of Gay Tony, looks like it has solved the problem of not being able to replay missions in a GTA game. Now, if only it could make it possible for players to be given the option to start a new mission just by going to a menu screen from your cellphone. Maybe DSF has already dealt with this problem, seeing how shift will allow you to jump from one car to another. Then again, this resource is not available to you infinitely.

In many on foot games, racing minigames are often little fun. Who likes flipping his/her car, or getting one's car blown up by another player? And getting the law after your *** while racing is extremely annoying. With the driving physics being inconsistent and so many possible distractions around you, it feels very frustrating. If any game developer ever works on missions for an on foot open world game, there should be NO racing ones forced upon the player. Instead, let them race around whenever they are not busy with the story. As for driving only open world games, it is not as much of a problem for them.

Do you guys remember playing GTA3 , when you were already on the second or third island, and you drove back to Portland Island, only to find that your car was blown up by the Italian Mob? As soon as an open world game forces chaos to come into your way like this, it makes a game difficult for no good reason. Who wants to see himself/herself just driving around a town in a game, participating in nothing immoral, but still finding a bunch of gangsters that fire at them nonstop? I also heard that Far Cry 2's AI is really aggressive, where your enemies often times would follow you for several miles, trying to hunt you down. This forces combat down your player's throats, and that is not something that one wants. Sometimes people just want to enjoy the scenery or to explore a game, but that cannot be implemented well enough with situations like GTA 3's Italian mob or FC2's enemies.

These are just a few things that should be solved, if nonlinearity is going to evolve.

J_Frumpleberg

07-07-2010, 02:59 PM

DSF has already solved the first one, allowing you to warp anywhere on the map, after upgrades, and it is a bit limited unfortunately. Hopefully there will be a cheat for infinite shift.

The mafia was annoying in GTA3, as was the Columbian Cartel, but they kept it interesting, guarding their territory, and they gave me reason to shoot back.

Yes, sometimes I do want to explore and take it easy, but that can also get boring. Ability to turn police on/off from the pause menu would be nice, because I certainly don't want to play the entire time on one setting, or have to exit the game to reset

PeaceMaker_101

07-07-2010, 05:47 PM

I wouldn't necessarily say that DSF has gotten itself past the first problem. If we are not allowed to go from one part of San Francisco to another until we have upgraded the shift feature enough, then it most likely means that we'll have to waste a lot of time traveling back and forth to start on a mission. If this problem is not rid of in DSF, then at least the Driver game after it has the potential to make this possible.

One thing that really frustrated me about going from one mission to another was in DPL, where we often times damaged our cars too much, such that we had to drive all the way back to a car shop and repair them. Something like that doesn't seem right for an open world game, especially with customization options. Maybe a less realistic, but better alternative would be to go to a menu in the game that allows you to pay for the damage. Another option could be to do what Fable III is proposing, which is that there are no more menu options. Instead, one would be sent to a location where he/she could interact with, doing things like changing clothes and weapons, or checking a map to see where he/she is and where one would like to go. Of course, it would require a very short amount of loading times to be a nice transition between the actual gameplay of the game for it to be properly implemented.

Some of Fable III's features actually seem like they're some of the best proposals out there. Check out this video of Peter Molyneux discussing Fable III, as a demo is shown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFO_3HD5sCU

Around 04:42, Peter begins mentioning the idea that replaces the menus in Fable III.

J_Frumpleberg

07-07-2010, 06:44 PM

The Fable idea sounds more like a long and drawn out menu. In fact, it still is a menu, but without words to click on. I'd rather just get straight to the point and select volume from a menu, rather than find a radio and adjust it there

brok2

07-08-2010, 10:38 PM

Problem: Having to drive across town to begin missions is tedious.

Well yes it is, but like I've been saying for years it can be fixed simply by taking a leaf out of any Flight Sim's book, with a simple 'press X to skip to next interesting bit' option. Those just wanting to get into the mission hit the button, and BAM- they are there. Occasionally I like to spend the time driving across town seeing the sights and getting the feel of a car though, so the skip to waypoint feature pleases those players as well, because if they want to do the driving themselves, they simply don't press X!

Problem: Racing is crap in Sandbox games

While this is mostly true, sometimes it's great. Vice City especially comes to mind. I always found it had one GTA's worst driving physics, but the Paramedic missions were intense (and they were just against the clock!), the underground races were pretty epic (especially the endurance one round the entire city), and the destruction derby is just about my favourite minigame ever (does anyone know how high the time limit goes? I've got it up to around 17 minutes!). This is coming back to the whole 'some won't want it, others will' thing. Take it out if it doesn't work, but don't be surprised when people ask why it wasn't there. And they WILL ask...

Problem: factions firing on the player near their territory

Totally agree with this one- the Mafia made that corner of Portland a veritable deathtrap. It's never really that fun, unless their fightback area is well off the beaten path. Getting your car blown up via shotgun when just driving down a main street minding your own business just isn't fun any way you look at it. Going back to Vice city for a mo- I never even finished it especially because of this: one of my hobbies was riding around the ghetto on a bike watching the gangs walking around and fighting each other, trying to guess who would win. Then the paramedics would show up and it was often straght into round 2! Of course once I finished a certain line of missions one of the gangs would start coming after me instead of letting me watch them blow each other away.

Really, the nerve of those guys! I mean really!

( Then of course Mercenaries came out and delivered all the warfare carnage I could ever hope to sit on the sidelines and watch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

The Fable 3 menu seems pretty convoluted, but then again, being convoluted is Peter Molyneux to a T. It could just as easily have had a wall of weapons all laid neatly out for you to highlight without all the running around a chamber through archways just to switch your hammer for...a different hammer. How would it work for a driving game, anyway?

J_Frumpleberg

07-10-2010, 12:31 PM

How about a film director camera or camera option that would allow you to be the camera while the action plays, in essence, the action would be going on, and everything from your point of view would be recorded, this way we can move the camera freely in any direction, go back and add effects, you could record it in slow mo to make sure you get all the angles you want

It would work a lot like the camera in counterstrike, after you've been shot and you can fly around and watch the action, but for recording purposes. Honestly if this was added into a future game, I'd probably just use this camera alone

It'd also be nice to use maybe R1 and L1 for a frame to frame option, and if we could use other buttons to pause, rewind, fast forward

brok2

07-11-2010, 05:39 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
How about a film director camera or camera option that would allow you to be the camera while the action plays, in essence, the action would be going on, and everything from your point of view would be recorded, this way we can move the camera freely in any direction, go back and add effects, you could record it in slow mo to make sure you get all the angles you want </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sounds a lot like a spectator camera, which PC games have been enjoying for a while. It'd be good to see, but there are a few problems holding it back- firstly if the camera operator can toggle a slo-mo, all the other players would be forced to drive around in agonising slow motion. It'd pretty much break the game. If you mean only in a replay though, then it's possible.

Another thing is that with cameras that can be manually aimed on the fly, the shots always end up jiggling all over the place, with a nice smooth pan being just about impossible. This is mostly because of mouse control but joysticks might not be much better. That said though, it would be a simple matter to add two cameras along a timeline and then get the view to 'tween' from one to another in a set number of frames. Even this might look unnatural though.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these problems are a reason not to have a free camera, just that if one gets put in these are issues that will probably arise that need to be dealt with.

Also getting back to the 0-4 teams thing for a sec, you said

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I guess 1 team would be the same but that's open for misconception (8 players against 0 is instant win?!)
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's not really like that- some games DO have a 1-X team option list, and if you have bots in your game it's assumed that if you place all your human players into one team it will just fill out the opposite team(s) with bots. Saying zero teams to assign players in suggests there are no players- and bots fill the ranks on both sides. Unless it's a free for all, but that would be a seperate option.

J_Frumpleberg

07-11-2010, 07:23 AM

I wasn't thinking of multiplayer, counterstrike was just an example in case what I said didn't make sense. You know, it would be cool in multiplayer though. And actually, it could work like Tivo, if you did want to watch in slow mo, the rest of the game would go on, and you'd be a few seconds behind. A notification could pop up to tell you if the next round has started.

But as far as multiplayer goes, if you can get knocked out, I would rather have a respawn feature then to be out for the rest of the round. I think the shift mode is already kind of like that anyway.

And if they include on foot in the next game, another thing I was thinking could be cool is to shift into people, for instance, when the cops are just too much in a shoot out, after they shoot you down, you could shift into another person around the corner, not wanted by the law, and with all your weapons, to exact revenge!

I was mainly refering to a replay camera. Yes, it wouldn't be perfect, but I think we could have spectator cam alongside "track" cameras.

Another tweak to spectator cam would be to lock onto objects like in a shooter (with R1 maybe?), it keeps the camera relatively smooth so you can just move it and not have to aim

Maybe zero teams could be free for all?

brok2

07-11-2010, 07:30 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
But as far as multiplayer goes, if you can get knocked out, I would rather have a respawn feature then to be out for the rest of the round. I think the shift mode is already kind of like that anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh absolutely- if there's one reason why I hate Counter Strike, it's having to wait through the rest of a round. Respawning would be a must. Direct into a new car in most modes, though for a car and foot CTF it'd probably be respawn on foot at your base, with the garage below holding a selection of cars.

kalle90

07-11-2010, 08:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
Unless it's a free for all, but that would be a seperate option. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I meant with 0 teams. Free for all. It's just simpler to write it like that

PeaceMaker_101

07-16-2010, 12:48 PM

While I'm not totally in favor of on foot gameplay, I will say this: if Ubisoft brings back on foot gameplay in the future, then I hope that the experience will be a lot more realistic than most of the open world games out there. In other words, I would prefer to have a modern day version of Mafia, with impressive driving game mechanics. Like others have mentioned before, instead of including "wacky" weapons like flamethrowers and rocket launchers, which are very unlikely to appear in the hands of a citizen in reality, include weapons that a person would typically get. Even a police officer most likely will never get his/her hands on weapons like that. Also, I want a more realistic set of laws present in the game, where you can't do rampages and other crazy things in a city, due to the impressive, realistic AI of law enforcement. Something like that would make players focus more on those aspects of the game that truly matter and that are meaningful, separating itself from GTA.

Oh, and as for the vehicles, I'd rather see a focus solely on land vehicles, mostly muscle cars and sports cars, with maybe a little focus on motorbikes, too. Commandeering vehicles like planes, helicopters, and boats just seems too unrealistic and too silly to include in a game like Driver, which is more serious than GTA.

brok2

07-16-2010, 09:43 PM

So what you're saying is you want to make these changes:

<LI>Remove any weapons that cops would not have.
<LI>Stricter laws preventing freedom and forcing the player down a narrow play path and preventing the player from cutting loose.
<LI>Remove all vehicles that you would find in a city save for cars.

Your game has already been made, and it's called Parallel Lines. Just what kind of target audience to you hope to attract with a game like that? Preventing rampages alone would be enough to convince the majority of sandbox players to avoid the game at all costs.

And remember, despite Mafia being an absolutely brilliant realistic game, it was the one that slipped under the radar, while Saint's Row 2, which has no pretensions about realism whatsoever by contrast sold really well and got just as much critical praise. Some even went so far as to say it was more enjoyable than GTA IV. GTA IV! and it did it by providing the thrills and spills fun gameplay that GTA forgot to include this time around.

You want to make a sandbox game that sells well but is limited and overly serious? Then you better make sure it has the best storyline ever written or it won't stand a chance. Not a chance in hell.

PeaceMaker_101

07-17-2010, 10:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
So what you're saying is you want to make these changes:

<LI>Remove any weapons that cops would not have.
<LI>Stricter laws preventing freedom and forcing the player down a narrow play path and preventing the player from cutting loose.
<LI>Remove all vehicles that you would find in a city save for cars.

Your game has already been made, and it's called Parallel Lines. Just what kind of target audience to you hope to attract with a game like that? Preventing rampages alone would be enough to convince the majority of sandbox players to avoid the game at all costs.

And remember, despite Mafia being an absolutely brilliant realistic game, it was the one that slipped under the radar, while Saint's Row 2, which has no pretensions about realism whatsoever by contrast sold really well and got just as much critical praise. Some even went so far as to say it was more enjoyable than GTA IV. GTA IV! and it did it by providing the thrills and spills fun gameplay that GTA forgot to include this time around.

You want to make a sandbox game that sells well but is limited and overly serious? Then you better make sure it has the best storyline ever written or it won't stand a chance. Not a chance in hell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not saying that it would be an easy task. However, I think that such a game has a good chance of being appealing to a mature audience, like people in their 20s or 30s rather than for teens. Heavy Rain did a good job of appealing to at least a million people, and it was a mature game. With that said, it doesn't seem that bad to approach the gaming industry like this.

Breach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_(video_game)), a multiplayer-only FPS, is aiming to offer a very hardcore mode, in which the game is so much more like a military simulator. Its developer, Atomic Games, which has created RTTs like the award-winning Close Combat series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_Combat_series), which was also a very realistic set of wargames, is now aiming to experiment with greater realism in console games. If this turns out well, then maybe we'll see simulators slowly make their way onto consoles.

The point is, if someone can prove that lots of realism is not a huge problem in a game, then it may work out for the other games out there, too.

brok2

07-18-2010, 10:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
I think that such a game has a good chance of being appealing to a mature audience, like people in their 20s or 30s rather than for teens.

The point is, if someone can prove that lots of realism is not a huge problem in a game, then it may work out for the other games out there, too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well everything has it's appeal, to an extent. The trouble with ultra realism in games is they remain a niche market. The average age of gamers (especially on consoles) is slowly going up, but it's still firlmy rooted in the teenager area, and most of them are after instant gratification over deliberation and long term payoffs.

I'm not saying that games like Heavy Rain should not be made, they most certainly should, but that was a game wholly focused on it's mystery story, with barely any action. Driver is a fast paced action game. Car chase movies, even the serious ones, make the chases larger than life- you get more audience investment in them that way. The last thing a chase movie/game needs is 50% chasing, 50% a guy musing on the nature of the universe while staring into his bathroom mirror.

As for simulators, they too have a niche, with a slower pace and more technical equipment and tactics to familiarise the player with, they are much better suited to the modern PC crowd than the 'I'll pick it up and play for half an hour' console crowd.

Personally I've always preferred arcade shooters like Goldeneye and timesplitters, yet when I gave Operation Flashpoint a go I was blown away and now play it regularly. That said though, I would not pick that game if I wanted a quick bout of single or multiplayer. Other, faster games are better suited to that.

I seek out OpFlash when I want to dedicate myself to a serious, story based and extremely challenging single mission that can take anywhere from 40 mins to over an hour to complete. That kind of play session doesn't suit a crime action game. Other genres perhaps, but not one that revolves around frantic car chases that barely ever top 5 minutes of pulse pounding excitement (at least in theory).

PeaceMaker_101

07-21-2010, 11:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
I think that such a game has a good chance of being appealing to a mature audience, like people in their 20s or 30s rather than for teens.

The point is, if someone can prove that lots of realism is not a huge problem in a game, then it may work out for the other games out there, too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well everything has it's appeal, to an extent. The trouble with ultra realism in games is they remain a niche market. The average age of gamers (especially on consoles) is slowly going up, but it's still firlmy rooted in the teenager area, and most of them are after instant gratification over deliberation and long term payoffs.

I'm not saying that games like Heavy Rain should not be made, they most certainly should, but that was a game wholly focused on it's mystery story, with barely any action. Driver is a fast paced action game. Car chase movies, even the serious ones, make the chases larger than life- you get more audience investment in them that way. The last thing a chase movie/game needs is 50% chasing, 50% a guy musing on the nature of the universe while staring into his bathroom mirror.

As for simulators, they too have a niche, with a slower pace and more technical equipment and tactics to familiarise the player with, they are much better suited to the modern PC crowd than the 'I'll pick it up and play for half an hour' console crowd.

Personally I've always preferred arcade shooters like Goldeneye and timesplitters, yet when I gave Operation Flashpoint a go I was blown away and now play it regularly. That said though, I would not pick that game if I wanted a quick bout of single or multiplayer. Other, faster games are better suited to that.

I seek out OpFlash when I want to dedicate myself to a serious, story based and extremely challenging single mission that can take anywhere from 40 mins to over an hour to complete. That kind of play session doesn't suit a crime action game. Other genres perhaps, but not one that revolves around frantic car chases that barely ever top 5 minutes of pulse pounding excitement (at least in theory). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What's wrong with making a Driver game that offers more than just action and car chases? If you think that a Driver game really needs to hold on to its on foot gameplay, then it may make more sense for it to play out as a dramatic experience. Bullitt wasn't all car chases, nor was The French Connection. Ubisoft Reflections didn't take whole parts of what made those films so great, and that's something that I would call a problem. With that said, it actually would make a lot of sense to drift (no pun intended) the Driver series into a state of maturity.

Let's wait and see how Mafia II turns out, and maybe then we can truly see whether or not a more serious Driver game would be a bad idea or not.

By the way, the original Mafia game has now sold over 2 million copies (if you look at its wikipedia article), so I think that the next game will see just as well (if not even better) as this.

brok2

07-22-2010, 06:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:

What's wrong with making a Driver game that offers more than just action and car chases? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I've been saying all along!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Bullitt wasn't all car chases, nor was The French Connection. Ubisoft Reflections didn't take whole parts of what made those films so great, and that's something that I would call a problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is, Bullitt and The French Connection, indeed most car chase films, are only remembered because of their chases. Generally they have pretty mediocre storylines. What made Bullitt great was it's chase. That's pretty much it.

There's nothing wrong with expanding a story to flesh out a game, I just don't think making the Driver series more serious will help them. Matter of fact I think Driver takes itself far too seriously. It was always at it's best with insane cops smashing your car from all sides, completely disregarding property damage and danger to pedestrians. Driver thrills were never better than when a high speed pile-up sent your car careening into the sky, landing 3 blocks down the road after a physically impossible parabola through the heavens. Spiritually, Driver is tied a lot more to The Blues Brothers style than even Reflections seems to realise. And you know what? that was one of the only car chase films that also had a story that stood on it's own.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think that the next [Mafia] game will see just as well (if not even better) as [Mafia 1]. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm pretty sure it will outsell the first one. Public awareness is massive this time around, the team have already proven themselves with a game that stands up to this day, and have shown their attention to detail is just as impressive this time around. If Mafia II gets GOTY, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

PeaceMaker_101

07-27-2010, 04:19 PM

Bullitt's story wasn't really that impressive, but I found The French Connection to be one of the best displays of police drama in all of cinema history, so I don't think that it is right to say that both of these movies were only about car chases. And if Mafia II sells really well, I think that the more mature audience for open world games would be perfectly fine to witness a hybrid interactive drama/driving game.

brok2

07-28-2010, 07:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
if Mafia II sells really well, I think that the more mature audience for open world games would be perfectly fine to witness a hybrid interactive drama/driving game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe, maybe. I still think it'd be completely out of place for a Driver game though.

J_Frumpleberg

07-29-2010, 05:15 AM

Yea Driver is an action driving game, hopefully Reflections won't turn it into some artsy fartsy sort of affair

PeaceMaker_101

07-31-2010, 09:28 PM

I'm really starting to wonder whether or not Ubisoft Reflections' staff is getting tired of making nothing but Driver games. In a few years down the road, I think that it's best for its staff to at least have some time off this franchise, to dive into more creative IPs. The best way to spread creativity in the games industry is to NOT focus so much on sequels and franchises. It greatly hinders the creative freedom of any game developer.

Each game developer should look for inspiration in other really talented game developers, even ones that are now defunct, like Looking Glass Studios (creators of System Shock 1 & 2), Ion Storm Inc. (Deus Ex, Thief: The Dark Project), or Black Isle Studios (Fallout 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment).

In my opinion, three is the number that should be the cutoff for a game franchise. Only under rare circumstances would I say otherwise. However, seeing how the next Driver game is going back to the roots of the first game, it feels like there is some hope in creating a few more Driver games, which I think should be more creative as a result.

J_Frumpleberg

08-01-2010, 06:46 AM

I don't necesarily think so, they way I see it, a new console comes out every few years, so that opens up new possibilities for franchises, stuff they've wanted to do but didn't have the power to.

Plus, Reflections makes the best car physics ever, if they were to step away from that I'd hope they'd still license the engine to other game developers

Mainly I wouldn't want them to abandon driving games. They could do other projects in the meantime. Of course there was a time when Reflections didn't make driving games, so there could be untapped potential for some other game.

Look at Criterion. They made Burnout for years, and then suddenly decided to make a shooter, and it was a great game. But they still make Burnout (although the new one fell a bit short, and now they're making NFSHP, not sure how I feel about that, screw NFS, give me a proper PS3 burnout!)

Yukoney

08-01-2010, 07:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
I'm really starting to wonder whether or not Ubisoft Reflections' staff is getting tired of making nothing but Driver games. In a few years down the road, I think that it's best for its staff to at least have some time off this franchise, to dive into more creative IPs. The best way to spread creativity in the games industry is to NOT focus so much on sequels and franchises. It greatly hinders the creative freedom of any game developer.

Each game developer should look for inspiration in other really talented game developers, even ones that are now defunct, like Looking Glass Studios (creators of System Shock 1 & 2), Ion Storm Inc. (Deus Ex, Thief: The Dark Project), or Black Isle Studios (Fallout 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment).

In my opinion, three is the number that should be the cutoff for a game franchise. Only under rare circumstances would I say otherwise. However, seeing how the next Driver game is going back to the roots of the first game, it feels like there is some hope in creating a few more Driver games, which I think should be more creative as a result. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking about something similar. But I'd love too see something other than car related video games. Perhaps a survival horror game, which is a very underrated genre on this generation.

brok2

08-01-2010, 11:04 PM

Considering how reluctant they've always been to putting in a fleshed out on foot mechanic, it at least seems more like driving is ALL they ever want to do. It's almost like they're not confident in their ability to deliver in any other area anymore. Maybe they just can't be bothered.

This is really neither here nor there but I personally cannot stand survival horror games. If there is one genre that constantly recycles more of the same old tired cliches than any other, it's survival horror. I'll make Left 4 Dead an exception though- at leat you can have some fun in that one...

Yukoney

08-02-2010, 05:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
If there is one genre that constantly recycles more of the same old tired cliches than any other, it's survival horror. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey! We're talking about survival horrors and not FPSs! :P

brok2

08-03-2010, 01:19 AM

cliched as FPSes can often be, they still show a helluva lot more originality than S-H.

Unless its something like F3AR... then it's the worst of both worlds.

PeaceMaker_101

08-06-2010, 07:44 PM

One field that Ubisoft Reflections can work with is driving simulators. After all, it's a talented staff of people for when it comes to a driving game. Creating something like a serious game, to stray from entertaining its audience, for once, in order to maybe focus on educating people. We have had some popular game developers work on both serious and entertaining games, so why not give it a shot? A driving school game, or a really nice simulation of driving a car, where you follow real laws and where you can get into a very accurate portrayal of a car accident would be nice for a change.

J_Frumpleberg

08-06-2010, 07:56 PM

I'm gonna have to disagree with that.

Just play Driver and drive the limit, and see why they shouldn't make such a game.

PeaceMaker_101

08-09-2010, 06:16 PM

I find it really funny when people think that every idea has already been done. Literature has been around for centuries, and its creative levels were truly astounding. Many of today's ideas stem from those of literature, but that isn't to say that, if the world is going to last for a few more centuries, we will be stuck where we are right now. Give it more time, and not only will films experience a revolution (a Renaissance of their own), but so will games. Maybe this century will not see any of that, but I wouldn't completely say that it's impossible to occur again.

With that said, I find it very ignorant to think so close-mindedly. If you attempted to examine the world's most significant paintings and books (i.e. The Illiad, The Oddyssey, Beowulf, etc.), you would find that even films have not gone anywhere near the whole scope of ideas that were derived from literature and art. Until you have read every important book and analyzed many important paintings, and you still say that it's all been done, I can't seem to agree with you on this.

For all we know, there might still be plenty of technology and scientific discoveries that we have yet to obtain.

Don't say that games will always remain solely violent with their gameplay and that conversations and nonviolent actions will always be "behind the curtain," in the form of cut scenes.

J_Frumpleberg

08-09-2010, 06:40 PM

I didn't say any of that, I was merely disagreeing with making a driving simulation similar to what real cops practice on.

Driver gives you the option to drive the speed limit, or not to shoot people (free roam). The games just not very fun when you play it like that.

And I don't really enjoy the segments in lots of new games where you have to pick your characters lines in a discussion.

brok2

08-09-2010, 09:18 PM

Exactly- in Driver there is always the option to drive below the speed limit. It sometimes even helps to do so to avoid police suspicion. But it would get really tedious if that's all you do. You're talking about how we shouldn't limit games. Fair enough, but limiting the driver to always playing by the road rules, not being violent or even experimenting is the kind of drastic limitation people just aren't willing to put up with, nor should they have to.

One of my favourite missions in Driver 1 was where you had to deliver a taxi cab across New York in the rain. There was no time limit, and all you had to worry about was not damaging the car. The easiest way to complete it was just coast along at traffic speed obeying the law. I loved it because I was able to just take a breather from the frantic chases and cruise along enjoying the scenery at my own pace. It also had that piano theme going that a lot of people call their favourite track, so that helped http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The atmosphere and cosy feel of that mission was a perfect break from the action. But would I want every mission to be like that? HELL NO! Make a whole game like that and you might as well call it Microsoft Congestion Simulator. It was already bad enough in Parallel Lines, to force the player to drive like that all the time would be just torture.

Also just out of interest, you place great importance on learning variety and diverse story possibilities from literature. I was wondering- have you read The Illiad or Odyssey yourself? Have you read any of Beowulf? It's a pretty hefty read- they don't call it an Epic Poem for nothing, you know.

PeaceMaker_101

08-10-2010, 06:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
I didn't say any of that, I was merely disagreeing with making a driving simulation similar to what real cops practice on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I only brought this topic up because it was on my mind at the time.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And I don't really enjoy the segments in lots of new games where you have to pick your characters lines in a discussion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I know that not everyone enjoys or let alone cares a lot for stories in either games, movies, or even literature. That's fine. I can understand where you're coming from.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
Also just out of interest, you place great importance on learning variety and diverse story possibilities from literature. I was wondering- have you read The Illiad or Odyssey yourself? Have you read any of Beowulf? It's a pretty hefty read- they don't call it an Epic Poem for nothing, you know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, I have read Beowulf in my British Literature class, along with the book called The Canterbury Tales, written by Geoffrey Chaucer. And I went through reading about some of Shakespeare's plays, like Romeo & Juliet, Hamlet, Macbeth, and King Lear. 1984 also was a fascinating book, which I read in that class. So, I did experience some really old pieces of literature and theater. And I find that too many game developers have only watched movies, while books are of little importance to them.

It is no wonder that they cannot create anything more meaningful or creative, when all that they can think of are even very modern films, like Back To The Future, The Terminator, Aliens, etc., while they leave older films like Vertigo, Le Grande Illusion, Gone With The Wind, Le Regle Du Jeu (The Rules of the Game), 8 1/2, or Citizen Kane in the dust. We have grown up to be too spatial, visual learners that we can't take a bunch of text that is of great significance and translate it into a great game. The Witcher probably has been the only book series so far that has been adapted properly into a game franchise.

If you look at how little creativity is in much of today's games, I feel like story is one of the best ways to counter too much traditional gameplay. That is why I greatly value seeing game developers place somewhat of an emphasis on narrative. Games are reduced to nothing more than board games, card games, or sports when you consider how it would feel if none of them contained a story of their own.

J_Frumpleberg

08-10-2010, 04:56 PM

I don't dislike story, but cutscenes are the time to sit back and relax, not have to pick which of three lines your character says to see which way the story will branch. Let the story branch depending on how the mission went.

InsaneDriver06

08-10-2010, 05:30 PM

I actually would prefer a giant Role Playing Game RPG version of Driver, but realtime.

You'd be Tanner, and everytime you take down an enemy, you could collect their weapons, clothing, gear, trinkets, hack off parts from their car or bike to fix your own, and use their guns to repair your own to keep them working after too much use. Missions wouldn't be limited to completing things one way, so you could actually side with the enemy and change the mission, to thwart the good guys instead. Choices expand the replay value, along with maintenance of your vehicle, weapons and clothing.

But that's not going to happen. Driver is more about instant action, and as a result, is a "more on the surface" game/not in-depth, but still plenty of fun.

PeaceMaker_101

08-10-2010, 06:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
I don't dislike story, but cutscenes are the time to sit back and relax, not have to pick which of three lines your character says to see which way the story will branch. Let the story branch depending on how the mission went. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree, with you, J_Frumpleberg. Having lines of text displayed for you to make a choice of saying seems not so different from a cut scene, or even an interactive cut scene (a Quick-Timer Event). Instead, I would like to see more of a focus on text parsers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_parser) and voice recognition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_recognition) in games, which would push the boundaries for dialogue, where players can actually say whatever they want. Now that would bring forth a very immersive experience.

Beyond the violence that we have in today's games, I see highly advanced conversational systems and very realistic displays of emotions as the next step in innovative gameplay. Games like Facade (http://www.interactivestory.net) are the future of gaming. Only then can we see truly meaningful, creative, and artistic forms of expression alive more than ever before in games. And that will be the time when adults embrace this medium, finally rendering the idea of "games only as toys," false.

brok2

08-10-2010, 11:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
I actually would prefer a giant Role Playing Game RPG version of Driver, but realtime.

You'd be Tanner, and everytime you take down an enemy, you could collect their weapons, clothing, gear, trinkets, hack off parts from their car or bike to fix your own, and use their guns to repair your own to keep them working after too much use. Missions wouldn't be limited to completing things one way, so you could actually side with the enemy and change the mission, to thwart the good guys instead. Choices expand the replay value, along with maintenance of your vehicle, weapons and clothing.

But that's not going to happen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it can't happen. Driver is a city based undercover crime story. Doing evil deeds is never an option (except for blowing cops up in D3 for some reason...) and scavenging is something that just isn't necessary in a city where shops and goods are readily available all the time. For now I think Interstate 76 remains the closest game to your free roaming scavenging car game. It just doesn't gel with Driver.

However... if you were to make an open world driving game based on, say... Mad Max, you now have something that could work. Essentially Fallout 3 on wheels, you roam the post apocalyptic outback trying to scavenge a living. In true non linear gaming, there simply is no story other than the one you create in your interactions with drifters, gangs, and settlements.

On encountering another motorist, depending on the moods of both drivers, there'll either be a pass without interaction, a trade, or a fight. kill another motorist and you can sift through their belongings- car parts, weapons, the all important food and water, and all sorts of trinkets can be pilfered off those you kill, save, or trade with. I'd also pinch the degrading weapons and day cycle from Far Cry 2. Personally I don't much care for degrading weapons but it would really suit the atmosphere of this one. Plus if there was some way to repair them yourself, you could form a stronger attachment to a particular weapon than any other game has had. Same with your vehicle, that whole 'you look after me and I'll look after you' mantra taken to the limit.

If I made this game I'd do it Sid Meier's Pirates style, where you just go about doing whatever the hell you want and the stats are all kept. However instead of Pirates' endgame triggered by you getting too old, here the game only ends when you either get killed or starve to death, with starvation a real and constant threat. once you die (and you can keep playing and surviving long after all the larger missions have concluded) you are told how many days you survived in the wilderness, number of kills etc, and the total worth of everything you had when you died, according to whatever currency they use. Emergent gameplay with high replayability, so long as encounters are always varied and unpredictable.

J_Frumpleberg

08-11-2010, 05:53 AM

I always thought it would be cool to have an open ended story as suggested. Especially if it was an MMOG. Older players would be the crime bosses (or higher ranking in whatever category, police, etc) and could send newer players on missions.

Newer players could also become made men, or kill their boss and become the boss if unchallenged. Of course, it probably wouldn't work all that well, it'd just turn into a giant free-for-all, unless you only let people join your game that you knew.

Then another idea emerges - would you climb the ladder until you are killed, and then have to start over as a rookie? Maybe on extreme difficulty? It would get annoying to essentially lose your whole game just from dying once. Especially if you were the boss, you're starting over with plenty of experience...

Also, using parts for weapons was one of my favorite features of Megaman Legends. Of course, they were futuristic cool weapons, not just ones that shot bullets. You took them to your friend Roll and she built the weapons from spare parts. Certain parts made certain weapons, so you couldn't create anything new by mixing and matching.

PeaceMaker_101

08-11-2010, 10:55 AM

I think that we aren't too far away from seeing either a voice-recognition-based or text parser-based GTA-styled game. EA, Bethesda, and other big game companies have already invested in one form of voice-recognition technology. Soon, it should be well implemented within many sports games, whose announcers really need more variety in what they have to say. Sometime after this, we'll see RPGs, whose cut scenes will be a lot easier and less expensive to create, using voice recognition. And when this technology is affordable enough, we may finally move out of the cut scene and enable all kinds of new ways of interacting with the NPCs within a game.

Microsoft's next project, Kinect, is going to be a big leap for voice recognition, in addition to all kinds of gestures without the need for a controller. Games like the Rainbow Six franchise and EndWar already are using this technology, even if it hasn't advanced a great deal. That gives us the hope of moving closer and closer to the true definition of interactivity (the main purpose of playing a game). Also, graphics will probably be impressive enough that we won't focus on them too much anymore.

J_Frumpleberg

08-11-2010, 05:34 PM

Voice recognition and computation is cool, but would be a HUGE undertaking. As if programming a computer to understand what is being said to it isn't hard enough, to make it useful at all, the computer has to respond and put together sentences that deal with the storyline.

Game companies would have to license this technology from other companies, and there'd have to be some way for the game developers to write a sort of script to it all.

It can be done though. I believe similar technology is already present to a degree in some robots meant to mimic human facial gestures and be able to have a conversation with you.

The next step would be gearing it towards specific events in a game

InsaneDriver06

08-12-2010, 04:41 PM

J_Frumpleberg

08-13-2010, 06:01 AM

Evil as in you can push other cars into oncoming traffic with complete disregard for the occupants

Hows that different than having guns?

brok2

08-13-2010, 07:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
Edmonson said in an article on newstands now (forget the mazazine), that since Tanner is in his Coma, he's allowed to do "evil things" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting- could you find out what magazine it is? We should band together and scan these articles for each other here. I really want to read that reveal of the Wii version Yukoney sampled. If I ever get my scanner to work I could put up the Driver 1 retrospective in Retro Gamer... if it doesn't breach Ubisoft forum rules, though I don't really think it does.

PeaceMaker_101

08-13-2010, 07:55 PM

So....DSF will offer shift as a new gameplay mechanic, Tanner in a coma, online multiplayer, and San Francisco as its setting. What else is new? Or is that it? I wonder how Ubisoft can pull off good marketing for this game, if there is nothing else new. Some people are angry about the exclusion of on foot, and others (particularly me) are still not happy enough about the driving experience . Just how cliche can a game get?

I will most likely give this game nothing more than a rent, or a playthrough when I am at my cousins' house. It's simply not worth buying, as are 90% or more of the games available on the market.

J_Frumpleberg

08-14-2010, 08:03 PM

Obsessing over 100% originality makes everything suck.

Something so original would be baffling to anyone who saw it, because you wouldn't know how to interpret it. Just enjoy what games we have now

PeaceMaker_101

08-27-2010, 10:35 PM

Mafia II seems to be receiving some generally positive reviews, with a GameRankings percentage of 75.25%. I watched the GameSpot video review of it, which gave the game a 8.5 out of 10, a higher score than most reviewers'. Of course, the game was praised for its well done combat and driving gameplay, as well as its story. The only major drawback is the fact that the world is not so open as most open world games. Other than that, the game is said to be a blast.

I'm happy to hear that it is a more meaningful experience than most of the games of 2010, and I wish 2K Czech the best of luck in its future.

Perhaps, Reflections could learn a thing or two from this game, with the on foot, story, and driving.

Yukoney

08-28-2010, 09:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
The only major drawback is the fact that the world is not so open as most open world games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that the PS3 version has no grass.

J_Frumpleberg

08-28-2010, 03:36 PM

IGN said the world feels dead and boring in the game. I'm somewhat interested in it, but not sure if I want to spend $60 on it

PeaceMaker_101

08-28-2010, 08:44 PM

It's a shame that so many people look mainly at a game's length in order to judge its quality. That's exactly what happened with Mafia II. Critics said that it's like a 10-hr. experience, and that, beyond the story, there really isn't much else that it offers. In other words, they saw it as too short.

A week ago or so, a group of indie game developers got together and claimed Aug. 17th as Size Doesn't Matter Day. They all discussed the issue of consumers judging a game by its length, where a game that is 5 hrs. is less worthy of
being played than a 50-hr. experience.

Here's a part of one of those indie game developers' comments on the issue, which I greatly agree with:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why can’t video games give me a powerful, high-density experience, so that after 3 hours I am satisfied, I feel like I have had enough? Wouldn’t that be cool?

A movie can give you a satisfying experience in 2 hours.

A painting or a sculpture can give you a satisfying experience in 10 minutes.

A song can give you a satisfying experience in 3 minutes.

What is it about certain kinds of linear-experience games that makes players feel they need to play them for hours upon hours in order to accrue a satisfying experience? If it really takes that long, doesn’t that mean the medium is somehow deficient in important ways?

Gamers seem to praise games for being addicting, but doesn’t that feel a bit like Stockholm syndrome? If you spend 20 hours playing a game, but the good parts could have been condensed into 3, then didn’t you just waste 17 hours?

If you waste 17 hours a month for the rest of your life, what is the cost of that, socially, quality-of-life-wise, economically, or however else you want to measure?

I am not saying that all games should be short. Certainly there’s a place for long-form games, just as there’s a place for long-form TV shows like Deadwood or Lost. But if we lived in a world where all cinema had to be the length of Lost, and films like Inception were criticized by cinema fans, and given lower scores in reviews and such, for being too short… wouldn’t that be perverse? Certainly the people in that world would be ignoring a big chunk of the potential of that medium, for arbitrary and weird reasons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you'd like to check out any of the blogs for Size Doesn't Matter Day, look below:

http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=810
http://24caretgames.com/2010/0...-game-length-matter/ (http://24caretgames.com/2010/08/16/does-game-length-matter/)
http://2dboy.com/2010/08/12/too-short/
http://blog.wolfire.com
http://brokenrul.es/blog
http://gamesfromwithin.com/size-matters
http://macguffingames.com/2010...et-the-virtual-goods (http://macguffingames.com/2010/if-size-doesnt-matter-where-do-you-get-the-virtual-goods)
http://mile222.com/2010/08/a-haiku-about-game-length/
http://retroaffect.com
http://the-witness.net/news
http://www.copenhagengamecolle...17/size-does-matter/ (http://www.copenhagengamecollective.org/2010/08/17/size-does-matter/)
http://www.firehosegames.com/2.../how-much-is-enough/ (http://www.firehosegames.com/2010/08/how-much-is-enough/)
http://www.hobbygamedev.com/
http://spyparty.com/2010/08/16...e-doesnt-matter-day/ (http://spyparty.com/2010/08/16/size-doesnt-matter-day/)
http://nygamedev.blogspot.com/...coming-up-short.html (http://nygamedev.blogspot.com/2010/08/coming-up-short.html)

J_Frumpleberg

08-29-2010, 02:02 PM

Games are interactive, thats where the difference comes from.

By the same logic, why can't I enjoy a movie in 3 minutes?

Because it wouldn't be a movie at that point, it'd be a trailer.

If you're spending $60 brand new on a game, you want to enjoy it for more than 5 hours. Sure, you may end up doing the same stuff over and over. If people don't want to play games for a long time, they can rent, they have the choice.

PeaceMaker_101

08-29-2010, 08:34 PM

I still don't think that a game should be judged by its length. For instance, a game that is 150 hrs. long, but with 3/4 of the time spent grinding would be less entertaining to play than a game that is 5 hours long with an incredible story and amazing gameplay. Wouldn't you fear the possibility of wasting hundreds of hours from playing a game with a lot of replay value? As long as a game is memorable that you can go back to playing it each year, who cares about its length?

And it's those games which are open ended or so nonlinear that have me worried about what they will do to gamers' lives. As people grow older, they have less time to spend playing through one very long game. That's when it makes more sense to play games by little chunks, which would usually be in the case of purchasing more and more games. Besides, having too many multiplayer or nonlinear games hurts other games' sales, thus hurting the overall state of the games industry. For all we know, we might soon face yet another video game crash, like the one that occurred in 1983.

J_Frumpleberg

08-30-2010, 10:02 AM

After thinking about it, I guess I do agree with you. I never really play games story modes so much, mostly its just something to mess around with, cause mayhem, which is why I play GTA (and similar games)

I just want a game I can pick up and play, even if I have to use cheat codes to get all the guns/cool stuff

Eventually I do get around to story mode, but thats usually a few years after buying it.

The consumer drives the industry, if they don't want to play linear games, then developers need to see that and adapt, or adjust their budgeting on not so popular games to cut a profit.

And like I said before, its up to the gamer how much time they want to spend/waste on a game. If they don't have enough self control to turn off the console, its their own problem.

PeaceMaker_101

08-30-2010, 03:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The consumer drives the industry, if they don't want to play linear games, then developers need to see that and adapt, or adjust their budgeting on not so popular games to cut a profit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
True, and that is why many game developers are going to make some very hard decisions. Should they just spend more time developing a game for a long while, as opposed to releasing a game each year, or would smaller, more episode-driven games be a better idea? It doesn't seem like publishers can afford to continue to spend so much money on producing their games. We might come to a point where episodic games are more prevalent, due to the likelihood of game developers being able to look more closely at their fans' feedback, and apply that to their games. Sonic 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_4) is beginning to take implement this business model, and it might help heal some of the wounds that the Sonic franchise suffered from for the past decade.

As for solving the multiplayer gaming "problem," we might eventually see gamers forced into a pay-to-play model, with maybe even more DLC content being produced. This would allow game developers less of a need to come out with more sequels as frequently as they normally would, instead focusing heavily on perfecting their current games as much as possible. In some ways, this is going to frustrate gamers, but there isn't much else that game developers or game publishers can do about this.

brok2

08-30-2010, 10:28 PM

Every one of those 'Size Doesn't Matter Day' arguments rely on the idea that when people sit down to play a game, they play it all the way through, in one go, without pausing. That whole idea is ridiculous- nobody does that. If those indie developers actually tried a commercial game once in a while they may have actually noticed why things like 'pausing' and 'save/load game' screens remain so popular.

As far as indie games go, I agree that size does not matter, because these tiny games are usually built around a single premise/gameplay gimmick that is fun to mess around with for an hour or two. If that's all the game intends to do then that's fine- nothing wrong with that.

However, larger AAA titles have larger teams working for 2+ years on a gameplay experience, and especially in the case of linear games, if all you can do is start at A and eventually arrive at Z, then that journey had better be long.

This is doubly significant in the case of Mafia 2- since the first one had an entirely linear story too and was very long and rewarding.

But getting back to the main point, They were saying what's wrong with a game you can sit down and enjoy for a hour or so and then stop? Nothing at all. What does suck is whether there is any game left after that first hour. In the case of Mercenaries- I always pick it up and play through for between 30 mins to an hour, and then put it down again, satisfied. But how many times would I want to come back if that was ALL the game was, and I was just repeating the same section over and over? I come back because while the core gameplay is the same, the story keeps progressing and changing as I go, and characters develop and evolve. That's something Indie games don't have the luxury of being able to do since they are so short.

I really have to wonder which fool there actually blogged <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What is it about certain kinds of linear-experience games that makes players feel they need to play them for hours upon hours in order to accrue a satisfying experience? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do they really believe that we play a game and just hang on waiting for it to 'get fun?' Of course we dont- we continue playing a game -any game- because the gameplay we're experiencing at any given moment is fun/immersive/challenging etc. I may only play Mercenaries or Just Cause 2 for an hour or so at a time, but when I finish do I feel that time was wasted? Of course not! I ran, shot, drove, flew, slingshotted around and loved every minute of it, regardless of whether it was in the story or free roam.

That's a lot of text so to sum up:
<LI>players aren't chained to the singleplayer and forced to complete it in one go. We are not robots, and perfectly capable of playing a singleplayer in sections.
<LI>In a long game with a great story and characters, playing in sections is far more like watching a TV series, and if the characters are likable enough the player will never want the story to end. That was definitely the case for me with Mafia. If indie game designers started creating more fleshed out characters they might actually realise this.
<LI>Games offer different rewards from books and movies. While books and movies tell you a story, and the thrill comes from observing plot twists, drama, comedy etc, games can offer far more than that because they are interactive. A book may gloss over a detective walking down the street to a bar, but in a game the player is free to look around, soak in the atmosphere, explore the alley behind the bar for exits etc, and feel 'in the moment'.
<LI> Every second you spend in an immersive enough game is pure escapism, which like a movie usually ends when the credits roll.

Trouble is while movies require you sit in a dark room for 2 hours straight in one go, games (and books too) aren't bound by a single sitting. If the game or book is engaging enough, people will experience it in small doses (chapters/levels) and want it to be a big enough story.

After all, there are some people that think the Lord Of the Rings books weren't long enough because they wanted it to last longer. Lord Of The Freakin' Rings!

PeaceMaker_101

08-30-2010, 11:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> As far as indie games go, I agree that size does not matter, because these tiny games are usually built around a single premise/gameplay gimmick that is fun to mess around with for an hour or two. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not every single indie game is a short experience, yet even those long ones (like Dwarf Fortress) manage to make themselves as inexpensive as possible. There's no excuse for a game developer to make a game over $60 in order for that game to be lengthy. It still shouldn't matter, and nor should a game's length.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">However, larger AAA titles have larger teams working for 2+ years on a gameplay experience, and especially in the case of linear games, if all you can do is start at A and eventually arrive at Z, then that journey had better be long. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You fail to see that games don't have to be developed for more than 2 years, especially ones that are taken more as expansion packs than fully-fledged sequels. In fact, episodic gaming seems like a nicer change of pace, as it greatly ensures that a game will come out sooner, with as many fan-based features as possible. Instead of wasting time on DLC, game developers can technically work on DLC in the form of small games, which are sold at reasonable prices, making it easier for people to consume things in smaller chunks. And if gamers want more of that experience, they can wait patiently for a month or so before some more content comes out. You said that people like doing things little-by-little, and what better way to do this than by giving people a new game every few months?

This could push online services like Xbox Live and Playstation Network to the next level, enabling more users and a greater variety of business models that are suitable for anyone. Online gaming is going to increasingly play an important role in this industry, and I definitely think that episodic gaming will be one of its most important factors. It will certainly hurt non-downloadable copies of games, as well as retailers like GameStop & EBGames, but it is probably inevitable whether you choose to embrace it or not.

brok2

09-01-2010, 05:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:

You fail to see that games don't have to be developed for more than 2 years, especially ones that are taken more as expansion packs than fully-fledged sequels. In fact, episodic gaming seems like a nicer change of pace, as it greatly ensures that a game will come out sooner, with as many fan-based features as possible. Instead of wasting time on DLC, game developers can technically work on DLC in the form of small games, which are sold at reasonable prices, making it easier for people to consume things in smaller chunks. And if gamers want more of that experience, they can wait patiently for a month or so before some more content comes out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course they don't have to take that long- I'm saying the big budget AAA titles usually do though. And when a triple A title comes on the shelves at full price people expect... pretty much demand that a game is long enough to justify that price tag.

Episodic gaming might seem a 'great change of pace' but when the actual release pace keeps changing, the frustration levels go into overdrive. Would you rather wait an indefinite period for a film to come out, and get the whole story in one go, or watch a TV series where that indefinite wait applies to every single episode, with delays and problems leaving you not ever knowing when the next episode will come out, and even when you finally get it it's just a fraction of the story?

Thanks but I'll stick with full releases. At least that way, once I have it I know I have the whole package to view at my leisure and am no longer bound by a company's schedule.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You said that people like doing things little-by-little, and what better way to do this than by giving people a new game every few months? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can tell you a much better way to do it: Give the player the whole game at once, so it is the player that has the freedom to choose where they start and stop playing, rather than some guy in a suit somewhere deciding 'they will start playing here, and finish abruptly here'.

You know... like non-episodic gaming does. It's been working pretty well for nearly forty years now...

InsaneDriver06

09-04-2010, 07:22 AM

If we put all of our posts together, we'll officially have a 10,000 page book. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It's easy to get carried away with ideas on this forum.

Wish List:
Stick Shifting Manual Transmission
Sportbikes: Kawasaki, Triumph, Ducati
Cheat Code: Play as a pedestrian

J_Frumpleberg

09-04-2010, 02:16 PM

I once made a webpage for the Driver wishlist, so it'd be easy to get all the ideas in one place, instead of having to read through 30 pages of text.

I believe its still on the hard drive, I only got stuff I could remember off the top of my head, didn't even start to scour through this behemoth

Maybe I'll put it back up...

InsaneDriver06

09-04-2010, 07:51 PM

Yeah, I'd hate to be the skimmer who had to check the forums for ideas for Reflections. Then again, I think they go their own route most of the time.

Your Tag Mode Idea is my most wanted mini game they need to add. Imagine tapping five cars in a row, all of them chasing you till they smashed your car into submission? Or trying to chase 5 cars at one time?

PeaceMaker_101

09-04-2010, 10:59 PM

Just to keep my post as minimalist as possible, I will post the most important features for any upcoming Driver games:

- a nonlinear story with tons of action, drama, and maybe even some humor
- impressive driving and on foot controls
- no emphasis on minigames, other than the ones that appeared in D2 & D3.
- a very huge list of cheats to screw around with
- a lot of cars to drive around in, along with the return of motorbikes
- a really well executed first person experience (either as an option or as the only camera in the game), which would greatly distinguish it from the other open world crime games

brok2

09-05-2010, 05:42 AM

Peacemaker's covered most of my wishes here- especailly humour! Would it kill Reflections to include just a bit of humour for once? Even the darkest of crime stories have the odd bit of levity here and there!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
- a nonlinear story with tons of action, drama, and maybe even some humor
- impressive driving and on foot controls
- no emphasis on minigames, other than the ones that appeared in D2 & D3.
- a very huge list of cheats to screw around with
- a lot of cars to drive around in, along with the return of motorbikes
- a really well executed first person experience (either as an option or as the only camera in the game), which would greatly distinguish it from the other open world crime games </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Though as long as the minigames are all back, and playable in multiplayer it'd be great. Personally I'd like them all playable along with other modes like CTF, Keep away, Derby, VIP, Car Soccer, maybe even a zombie virus mode or something like that if they're feeling really creative...

Above all though I'd like to see a version of both CTF and Keep Away that included cars and both on-foot and weapons, in addition to the 'car only' versions of these modes. The tactical possibilities of a CTF match involving vans and muscle cars and gunplay while on foot would be epic.

J_Frumpleberg

09-05-2010, 04:30 PM

Imagine a zombie cheat that turns all pedestrians into zombies that can't dodge cars, and basically explode on impact, haha

I'm not so sure a camera angle will distinguish Driver from the rest of the pack, though I do like first person view, others don't, there should be a few options on foot, 1st, 3rd, shoulder, Metal Gear Solid view for people who actually like that camera mode

Humor would be nice, I imagine it'd be along the lines of Snatch if Driver were to include it, like the "Toothless in Wapping" movie in Stuntman.

To boil everything down in my wishlist to several main points, I guess they'd be:
1. Fast paced
2. Ruthless cops
3. Plenty of on screen action, huge car chases like Blues Brothers!!!
4. Destruction Galore!!!
5. Guns a blazin shootouts
6. Highly interactive environment
7. Landscape variety

and probably a few more things I can't remember at the moment

EDIT: How about a cheat that gives bigger vehicles 5000 hp? Like buses, semi's, fire trucks, etc

InsaneDriver06

09-06-2010, 10:29 AM

Nice ideas in the posts above. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Additional ideas:
-Manual stick shifting or Automatic (as in any racing game) for optimal vehicle/engine control
-Vaulting over parked cars with enough speed
-Ability to flip your car end over end in a wreck
-Massive Crash damage that bends the vehicle
-Flat tires would be very rare
-Missions possible without being required to shift
-etc...

J_Frumpleberg

09-07-2010, 07:22 AM

Also, flying chunks of metal like the first game, lots of particle effects, thick black smoke, fire, and explosions, and sparks flying

SLRMC93

09-07-2010, 05:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Also, flying chunks of metal like the first game, lots of particle effects, thick black smoke, fire, and explosions, and sparks flying </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
To go with that, I want the hubcaps to fly off some cars, if they are sliding too much, who remembers?

brok2

09-07-2010, 11:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SLRMC93:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Also, flying chunks of metal like the first game, lots of particle effects, thick black smoke, fire, and explosions, and sparks flying </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
To go with that, I want the hubcaps to fly off some cars, if they are sliding too much, who remembers? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That, my friend, was the icing on the cake in D1. I love those little guys!

J_Frumpleberg

09-08-2010, 09:13 AM

I also liked how the blinkers came on if you held the left or right button long enough

InsaneDriver06

09-08-2010, 07:40 PM

Plus when you slam into a wall, the wall leaves a big indentation of smashed up rubble and crushed glass. That would make driving into walls a blast!

J_Frumpleberg

09-09-2010, 05:41 AM

I'd still like to be able to crash through the walls, depending on strength. Especially the corners of buildings, though I suppose theres usually a decent support beam in the corner... Oh well, its just a game

InsaneDriver06

09-09-2010, 06:44 PM

Worst is when we hit a wall at 100 MPH and nothing happens to the wall. Not even a crack in the foundation. That lack of interaction is a big minus IMO.

J_Frumpleberg

09-10-2010, 07:20 PM

If there is real-time damage in this or future installments, I would like to be able to set it to a realistic level of crumpling, obviously the cars wouldn't last long, but a 100mph crash should be devestating, and you could still set it back to normal whenever

InsaneDriver06

09-15-2010, 07:52 PM

Yes to having an option to control the level of damage. I'd have it set to full damage allowed at all times though, for maximum impact and crumpling destruction for the vehicles.

100 mph crashes head on to a dead stop instantly, would disable the driver from the G-Forces, in most cases, and crush the vehicle as you said. So yes to being able to control that, Driver 1 style or 'more realistic' impacts.

J_Frumpleberg

09-16-2010, 05:17 PM

Especially now with shift, it'd be easy to change cars in such an occasion.

I've always wanted to sheer a car in half with enough force, or wrap it around a tree. One day, games will be there

InsaneDriver06

09-18-2010, 04:19 PM

Once the car is wrapped around a pole, Tanner won't need the Jaws of Life to get out, he'll have Shift!

J_Frumpleberg

09-19-2010, 09:42 AM

It won't matter which innocent citizen(s) he killed in the process

Yukoney

09-19-2010, 10:07 PM

Mainly because they're all part of his coma dreams.

InsaneDriver06

09-21-2010, 08:37 PM

That definitely keeps the action going, but might dilute the sense of real danger. Thankfully Shift does have a limit, so there will be times when Shifting is not available, increasing the tension over Tanner's life. Even if it is a 'dream'.

J_Frumpleberg

09-25-2010, 06:44 PM

Film Director
--------------
* Tripod Camera - point and click the location, ground, building, person, etc
* Lock to Anything - Lock the camera onto anything, also attach camera to objects with ability to focus on other objects

* Put the Add Camera button NEXT to the PLAY button already!!!

* Map - Have a map while editing with involved cars shown, and the course of your car plotted
* Chase Camera - In older games this is locked to your car, so your car stays in the same place on screen through bumps and turns, give us an option to have the camera seem like its on another car, or has a seperate suspension
* Move Camera Start - When moving this forward, show us whats happening from the new view in reverse as we move it up
* Play clips/camera angles in reverse

J_Frumpleberg

10-10-2010, 05:34 PM

Driver Wishlist:
To be able to do this:
Ford Fiesta Drift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1C1NmXZpK8&feature=player_embedded)
Box Truck crashes into 6 Cars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdlllDtI4QQ)
Mythbusters Head-on collisions at 50+100 mph (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-JGIYLZZUg&feature=related)

InsaneDriver06

10-12-2010, 07:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Film Director
--------------
* Tripod Camera - point and click the location, ground, building, person, etc
* Lock to Anything - Lock the camera onto anything, also attach camera to objects with ability to focus on other objects

* Put the Add Camera button NEXT to the PLAY button already!!!

* Map - Have a map while editing with involved cars shown, and the course of your car plotted
* Chase Camera - In older games this is locked to your car, so your car stays in the same place on screen through bumps and turns, give us an option to have the camera seem like its on another car, or has a seperate suspension
* Move Camera Start - When moving this forward, show us whats happening from the new view in reverse as we move it up
* Play clips/camera angles in reverse </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, hopefully the camera system is a lot more user friendly this time, as it was a bit clumsy in the past games, but very useful nonetheless.

J_Frumpleberg

10-13-2010, 05:29 AM

Judging from the videos of GTA4 I've seen, they have their work cut out just to catch up. Once GTA nails the car chases, its game over, hate to say

brok2

10-13-2010, 11:42 PM

I've dabbled with the GTA IV director, and for a first effort (if you don't count the replay feature of San Andreas) it's fantastic, but Driver isn't quite sunk in that department yet. While GTA now leads the field in options like camera FOV, filters, time manipulation and smooth camera panning and tracking etc, Driver 1 still has it beat in a really key area- freedom of camera positioning. The high level of detail in GTA IV restricts what can be spawned around the player, and as a result the camera has to stay nearly right next to the player at all times to avoid showing empty streets. It's actually closer and harder to deal with in GTAIV than in Driver 2, which was pretty notorious for the same problem.

As an example have a look at this replay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgd2yGKfFWI) I edited at a friend's place. I wanted the camera to show a bus heading for a red light, but I couldn't use a chase cam because the traffic light was too far away to spawn, and the camera refused to move away from the bus (or even turn away from it! Unbelievable!), so in the end the only solution was to use a camera tracking shot that showed the bus and the traffic light in turn, while the camera actually stays close to the just-offscreen bus the whole time.

Other advantages that Driver has is that it works just as well on consoles, while GTA IV is restricted to the PC, and Driver's is always recording, whereas GTA IV uses a 'press button to save only the last 30 seconds' system, which isn't always ideal. Fortunately you can just hit it as often as you like and then use the in game editor to stitch them all together. It may sound finnicky but it's worth it because you can stitch in a clip from a completely different play session that you did on an entirely different day.

Also GTA IV allows for interior cameras, useful for showing the driver's faces. Not always that handy, but rarely they do some facial expression that suits whatever's happening, and besides, seeing the driver's face during a chase has always been pretty important in the movies (French Connection, The 7 Ups, anyone?) so it's definitely the way forward for car chase game cameras too.

-I'm also not as worried about Driver getting swamped by GTA as I was before IV came out. GTA seems to be aiming more for realism now than fun, which gives Driver plenty of breathing space if it chooses to go in the opposite direction, which seems to be the sandbox recipe for success at the moment.

J_Frumpleberg

10-14-2010, 07:50 AM

Yea I didn't find out about the replay editor until I bought the PS3 version already, not that it mattered cause my computer would never handle it. One day... then I can turn traffic up to the max.

I guess replay draw distance depends on how much memory your pc has, GTA has never been very good about that. I can't speak too much for last gens PC versions, but on PS2 (and PS3), you could look one way, see no cars, spin around and suddenly theres 4 cars beeping at you. Though it does come in handy when you need a car.

Same goes for disappearing cars on looking a different direction.

I'm still in awe of 4's graphics every time I play, so much detail everywhere you look, they really out-did themselves this time, I remember especially in Vice City, some of the horrible graphics, Little Havana was especially bad, I always likened the graphics to that of McDonalds Happy Meal toys, really cheap looking, lucky if theres any moving parts.

Anyway, Reflections should take a look at GTA's editor, and look at car chase movies for more camera ideas. Hopefully they've made the drivers reactions look good, the frantic hands-on-steering-wheel would be a good shot for a chase scene. The old games never had enough options to keep me interested, I'd just always end up using tripods. I want some moving cameras at least, other than chase cam

InsaneDriver06

10-14-2010, 09:12 AM

The water effects in GTA4 looks awesome. They really need to bring back the analog jogging for GTA5 before I consider it, as I'd say it broke the on foot gameplay for how I prefer to play. "Press X to jog/run". Red Dead Redemption was tolerable, as whenever you armed a weapon, you automatically can walk or jog with just the analog, salvaging the on foot for me.

Driver SF should consider for a nice cheat, adding the option to become a pedestrian, so you can experience a big city from the eyes of a person. Or add motorcycles, which is the next best thing IMO, but with the advantage of being fast. It won't happen, I know.

J_Frumpleberg

10-14-2010, 07:51 PM

I'd rather have motorcycles over "be a ped(o)" cheat (haha). Even if they did let you control a pedestrian and walk around as them, it'd be pointless, because they wouldn't bother programming any other abilities in there, not even as much as a jump button I'd wager. Thats basically what we have with cars, no ability to interact with objects, pick up anything, climb ladders, .. shoot stuff.. Being on foot isn't gonna give that much better of a view, just better turning radius

brok2

10-15-2010, 12:10 AM

I agree, there shouldn't be a pedestrian cheat. That's like taking a piano away from your kid, then giving them a xylophone and expecting them to be satisfied with that.

J_Frumpleberg

10-15-2010, 05:48 AM

an electric piano that can make all kinds of sounds

Assassin_Hun73r

10-15-2010, 08:05 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Judging from the videos of GTA4 I've seen, they have their work cut out just to catch up. Once GTA nails the car chases, its game over, hate to say </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It won't and never will don't worry.
GTA is busy enough perfecting on foot and action gameplay to be able to nail the cars perspective and everything around cars like car chases.

BTW I AGREE TOTALLY THAT DRIVER SHOULD UPDATE THE FILM DIRECTOR TO MAKE IT BETTER. More movie like. That would be awesome.

J_Frumpleberg

10-15-2010, 11:09 AM

I think GTA chooses not to be a car chase game, because the police can become annoying, like having a bunch of hornets buzzing around your head. GTA has always tried to let you explore, thusly, cops don't chase you for speeding or hitting other cars, sometimes even hitting people.

Film Director
----------------
1. Camera option to "latch" camera onto one vehicle and focus onto another vehicle/person/object, either inside or outside

Interior Cameras:
----------------------
1. Rearview mirror cam
2. Steering wheel
3. front passenger seat
4. Drivers face cam
5. Shoulder cam/backseat
6. Sideview mirror cam
7. Gas pedal/brake pedal
8. E-brake
9. For box trucks & semi's, view from inside the trailer

PeaceMaker_101

10-15-2010, 10:33 PM

For now, with the release of DSF, Reflections has a pretty good excuse for keeping the gameplay strictly based around driving. However, once the driving physics feel much more like D1, I'd say that it's time to move on. The Driver games after DSF should be able to handle a D1-like driving physics engine, along with great on foot elements. Let's face it. The future of games lies in complexity, not simplicity. Sure, there will continue to be some relatively simple games made for XBLA, PSN, Wii, and on the PC, but mainstream-wise, costs are only going up.

Reflections cannot keep a "nice and easy" attitude forever. There will need to be a wide variety of ways that make its games a strong competition, with features that stand out from anything else that has been around in the past.

That's why I will once again mention my suggestion for the mission structure, which is that each mission is achievable in multiple ways. Maybe even keep the number of missions in the game to a low number, but making them take long to complete (NOT because of their difficulty), would be better than having 40 or 80 of the same missions. Huge levels and great level design could make everything work out fine, like it did with Deus Ex and other nonlinear story-driven experiences.

brok2

10-16-2010, 03:58 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
For now, with the release of DSF, Reflections has a pretty good excuse for keeping the gameplay strictly based around driving. However, once the driving physics feel much more like D1, I'd say that it's time to move on. The Driver games after DSF should be able to handle a D1-like driving physics engine, along with great on foot elements. Let's face it. The future of games lies in complexity, not simplicity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got that right. There is literally nowhere else Driver can go and still maintain it's feel and keep it's crowd. There's only so many times you can 'focus' on nailing the driving aspect before people get sick of the total lack of innovation in any other area. I think D:SF will be fine, but the next Driver won't stay afloat without expansion.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Interior Cameras:
----------------------
1. Rearview mirror cam
2. Steering wheel
3. front passenger seat
4. Drivers face cam
5. Shoulder cam/backseat
6. Sideview mirror cam
7. Gas pedal/brake pedal
8. E-brake
9. For box trucks & semi's, view from inside the trailer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the chase cam can be moved around and fixed to any point relative to a car, then none of those cameras would be necessary as you could just move the chase cam around inside to get them, from any angle you choose. That gives a lot more room for individuality- after all, everyone's 'wheel cam' in D3 looked exactly the same because it was fixed. Freeing that up makes the cinematography more organic, and like the real world too, where every angle has to be picked manually.

J_Frumpleberg

10-16-2010, 08:22 AM

Well if they keep it to the driving, what are they gonna improve upon for each sequel? Better smashing of roadside objects? Its the same reason I gave up on NFS, every game is the same, the only new thing is sometimes new cars that weren't out for the last game, but is that worth another $60 to do the same races from last time? I guess I'm not much of a racing fan anyway, so that probably doesn't help

Good point brok. As long as they let the camera move through objects this time, that should solve all of our problems. Well, a few. Then we still need moving cameras

InsaneDriver06

10-16-2010, 08:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Well if they keep it to the driving, what are they gonna improve upon for each sequel? Better smashing of roadside objects? Its the same reason I gave up on NFS, every game is the same, the only new thing is sometimes new cars that weren't out for the last game, but is that worth another $60 to do the same races from last time? I guess I'm not much of a racing fan anyway, so that probably doesn't help
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Add a new location that takes advantage of what a vehicle/sportbike can really do, so instead of continually cranking out a typical city, make the entire game take place on a map filled with endless opportunities for action with as few flat, straight roads as possible. And improve the interaction so when you smash into something, you see the damage both ways.

brok2

10-17-2010, 03:37 AM

Hate to say it but once you've done San Francisco, unless you're doing fictional cities there's nowhere to go but downhill, and I don't mean that in a good way...

J_Frumpleberg

10-17-2010, 09:01 AM

New location doesn't count for much other than a change of scenery, same gameplay, new songs. I do like long straight roads for building up speed for wrecking, or just seeing how fast I can go.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And improve the interaction so when you smash into something, you see the damage both ways. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But where do they go after that?

Damagable buildings would be one step, but I would want weapons in that case

PeaceMaker_101

10-17-2010, 10:38 AM

It's possible to allow for totally destructible buildings at this point, even when it comes to exploring every building's interior, as Crysis 2 demonstrated in a video. However, it would take a lot of work to make everything feel so realistic that way. And how could a game go on to be playable once you've destroyed much of a city? Unless it's a game like Far Cry 2 or Crysis, I don't see total destruction working very well for any other kind of open world game.
Though, being able to explore the insides of every building is something that game developers can consider as an option in the future.

Yeah, and having lots of destruction, be it for the vehicles or buildings, with driving alone, still would not be enough to make every upcoming Driver game feel fun.

Depth is what was missing from the previous Driver games, and that's one of the major reasons that they didn't entertain many people for long. As long as Ubisoft Reflections finds people that specialize in those areas, we can only hope that the on foot will return, with a whole lot more options available to the gamer.

Either Martin Edmondson has never played a game outside of a racing/driving one, or he really hasn't explored those games' deep design philosophies enough to implement them in a fresh new way within the Driver franchise.

InsaneDriver06

10-19-2010, 05:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
Depth is what was missing from the previous Driver games, and that's one of the major reasons that they didn't entertain many people for long. As long as Ubisoft Reflections finds people that specialize in those areas, we can only hope that the on foot will return, with a whole lot more options available to the gamer.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the Driver series could use more depth, but the inclusion of Film DIrector will definitely help keep players returning, provided it was well designed. Making your own action scenes has plenty of replay value. That said, the more there's to do, the longer we'll play. Rather than "The harder we make it, the longer they'll play". Which works to a degree, but after it's beaten, not so much, as the gamer probably doesn't want to torture themselves again (see President's Run or that Driver 2 cliff chase ending...)

brok2

10-19-2010, 06:34 PM

I can't really see how destructible environments would add much to a crime driving game. Aside from maybe a set-piece building collapsing at the climax or something, as long as a driver game has the amount of environment destructability as, say, the shopping centre chase in The Blues Brothers, it'd be good enough for me. And most of the driver games already have that, with windows, cones and carts and the ever-present stack of cardboard boxes all there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
That said, the more there's to do, the longer we'll play. Rather than "The harder we make it, the longer they'll play". Which works to a degree, but after it's beaten, not so much, as the gamer probably doesn't want to torture themselves again (see President's Run or that Driver 2 cliff chase ending...) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd be surprised- the original Goldeneye, on finishing the game, unlocked a mode where you could ramp up the enemy health, damage and reaction time from the 100% found in the hardest difficulty, all the way up to a thousand percent. And what do you know; people still play it to this day, specifically to challenge themselves!

The only levels I actually replay anymore in D3 are the hard chase missions, because they still hold a challenge while all the others, once cracked, are pretty routine. Those chase missions cannot be beaten by route memorising alone. To beat them you have to have raw driving skill to see you through, and that's why they're worth replaying.

Besides, players always replay something and give themselves a challenge that makes it harder, like not using extra health, only a certain weapon etc. I'm quite fond of playing that mission in D3 where you use the grenade laucher out the back of the truck, giving myself the challenge of getting the grenades to explode in just the right place to send the cop cars intact over the roof of the truck. If I make a cop car disintergrate, I fail.

You should try it, it's a great little challenge!

J_Frumpleberg

10-20-2010, 08:22 AM

Instead of collecting stars like DPL, they could have guys walking around with plate glass for you to smash into. Maybe they wear a different color after you've smashed them, that way they'll still be around

I loved that mission, I too, am dissapointed if I destroy the car, launching the whole thing is cooler

InsaneDriver06

10-20-2010, 08:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Instead of collecting stars like DPL, they could have guys walking around with plate glass for you to smash into. Maybe they wear a different color after you've smashed them, that way they'll still be around

I loved that mission, I too, am dissapointed if I destroy the car, launching the whole thing is cooler </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a good idea. More stuff to smash into, the better. I would hope that cycle would continue infinitely in the game, so you'll constantly get rewarded every time they appear randomly, someplace else in the game. As once everything's collected, there's little reason to replay to do it again.

J_Frumpleberg

10-20-2010, 07:30 PM

Well, I'm not sure how it would work out better, to have the plate glass carriers be collectable or just randomly appearing... either way is fine as long as they're there.

What'd really be cool is if there were fruit stands that, upon smashing into them, an avalanche of fruit is released. When the cops come flying through, you'll see exploding fruit in your rearview

I believe it was Waynes World 2 where Wayne is driving the Merth Mobile and crashes through every cliche thing possible all in about 5 seconds.

What if in China Town, you could smash into a poultry stand releasing a bunch of chickens? You wouldn't be able to hit them, just like the people.

These mundane possibilities are can go on and on

brok2

10-20-2010, 07:44 PM

Ever since D1 I've always thought they needed those plate glass carriers dotted around the streets. I wouldn't care either if they had some reward or not, just as long as they were there. Maybe to smash the glass yourself you have to be driving perfectly through the middle, otherwise the carriers will drop it in fear and run, the glass smashing on the ground just before you hit it. I dunno, sounds like it'd take out the fun potential a bit.

J_Frumpleberg

10-21-2010, 05:57 AM

There could be log trucks that, if you hit the side, all the logs spill out

Trucks full of fruit, just like the stands

Car carrier semi's that you can knock the cars off of

These things would be more rare because it could get annoying seeing them often

brok2

10-22-2010, 01:34 AM

It wouldn't be that annoying seeing them a lot. They're like mines- if you don't touch them they do nothing. If you're being chased you could even use them to your advantage. And fruit carts wouldn't affect anything so you could gleefully plow through as many as you liked without affecting anything.

J_Frumpleberg

10-22-2010, 10:56 AM

True. I doubt the game will have any of this, which is sad because it is a car chase game, have a sense of humor!

I hope theres plenty of piles of cardboard boxes.

And maybe for the log trucks, you might have to side swipe them a few times to knock the logs off.

Also, swirving in front of 18 wheelers could cause them to jack knife occasionally

InsaneDriver06

10-28-2010, 11:15 AM

I like smashing through wooden boxes the most, and glass too. The sound FX and smashing particles are fun to watch as the car/bike flies through.

Those camera presets would be nice Frumpleberg, but also the camera to put anywhere you like and have it lock into that position, not only for FDirector, but also during the gameplay itself.

J_Frumpleberg

10-28-2010, 02:37 PM

Editing the gameplay camera could be cool I think, I probably wouldn't mess with it, but I bet theres more than a few people who would appreciate it.

InsaneDriver06

11-03-2010, 05:14 PM

I'd like to adjust the camera so it can be fixed at any angle around the car, and have the option to cycle through at least 10 cameras that I set myself for the gameplay.

Too bad the closest thing to this is Fallout 3 and Tony Hawk's Underground, from what I've seen so far anyway.

brok2

11-03-2010, 11:11 PM

as long as I can still see the road ahead in 3rd person when driving downhill, I'm peachy

J_Frumpleberg

11-09-2010, 05:02 AM

You know whats always bothered me that I'm surprised no one else has mentioned in all my years in the forums? The fact that when you get a cop car (ambulance/firetruck too), and turn the sirens on, you're not allowed to speed!

I remember back in D2, the first time I stole a cop car, I was like SWEET! I turned on the sirens and gunned it, thinking surely I could get away with that now. Of course, I was wrong. And don't call me Shirley.

Obviously in DSF, Tanner won't be in the car, which maybe was their reasoning against him getting away with such offenses, because the cops would be able to see him and know its not a cop in uniform? And as evidenced in the first video, if you shift into a cop car THATS ALREADY IN PURSUIT, you can speed all you want, however I think thats just because its a mini-game.

So hopefully we will be allowed to speed while driving emergency vehicles in this game, and not get chased, unless we started hitting cars or breaking roadside objects. I think it'd be cool for certain vehicles to have special perks like this.

InsaneDriver06

11-12-2010, 09:28 PM

Yes to being immune to cops while in a cop car.

brok2

11-12-2010, 10:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
I remember back in D2, the first time I stole a cop car, I was like SWEET! I turned on the sirens and gunned it, thinking surely I could get away with that now. Of course, I was wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Notice how the moment you get in a cop car the felony bar rockets right up to it's fullest state? I always just imagined the cop was in cafe or whatever nearby and called it in when you stole it.

You could have them ignore you, but I think it'd be more fun if -when you passed a cop car at full speed with your sirens on- it flipped on it's sirens and tried to keep up with you just to see what was going on. The cop could be asking what's happening repeatedly over the radio, and you have maybe a leeway of 2 minutes or so before they work out it's just stolen.

You could even make a mission out of this, where you have to steal a cop car, lure all the cops in the vicinity over some bridge and trap them all there, and then return to the first area to pull off some illegal deed without the cop cars there to overwhelm you. Classic outsmarting the cops type stuff!

J_Frumpleberg

11-13-2010, 05:19 AM

Man.. I'm just imagining the Blues Brothers chase now.. I want to know more about this mass chase option before I pick a version of the game to buy. If I get the regular version, will Mass Chase be DLC for a little extra? Will it even be worth it?

Reflections needs to release more info before I even consider pre-ordering.

I always explained it to myself the same way (Cafe Theory), but even so, the cops would be looking for a certain car number, so they wouldn't immediately be after you.

I also wanted them to join in the pursuit, I thought that would be cool.

InsaneDriver06

11-13-2010, 08:31 AM

I'll have to watch Blue Brothers again to see that chase through the mall and on the highway at night, with 100 or more cop cars following them.

Did anyone here see Bullit set in SF? I read some reviews that said the chase scene wasn't as great as it was hyped. Is the French Connection chase scene worth buying the DVD/Blu Ray for?

J_Frumpleberg

11-13-2010, 08:55 AM

Well for now, I think you can watch both of those (and many more) chase scenes on Youtube to judge for yourself.

I personally was not to thrilled with Bullits chase scene, but it is celebrated because it was the first car chase movie, apparently. Or the first good one, that led other people to copy it/improve on it. As with many things, newer versions may be better, I suppose nostalgia is partly to blame for the cult following of Bullit.

Then again, not many chase scenes get my blood pumping. Maybe I'm not watching it right, envisioning myself pulling off these manuevers, and maybe I've been spoiled by videogames where you can pull off death-defying stunts worry-free, so movies with real drivers don't seem as tense.

InsaneDriver06

11-13-2010, 04:17 PM

Thanks for that info, that helps. I'm thinking Ronin had a good chase scene, but still trying to think what was the best chase scene of all movies? That's a tough one.

J_Frumpleberg

11-14-2010, 01:34 PM

I'm a huge fan of Blues Brothers and BB 2000 (mainly the cop car pile-ups)

Ronin was good, and although a lot of it was CGI, I liked the Matrix car chase.

*THRILL CAM UPDATE!!!*
--------------------------------
Thrill cam needs a facelift, its not terribly useful as is because of bad angles, so I propose to you gentlemen and gentleladies today a revamped thrill cam: Instant Replay Cam!!!
*Pressing a button enters this mode, rather than holding a button
*Last 30 seconds available
*Left Trigger rewinds according to pressure applied
*Right Trigger moves forward similarly
*Player controls camera much like Counterstrike after you've been killed
*Press a button to record/stop, recorded section is auto-saved and editable in Film Director
*Pressing the same button that activates "IR" ends it, the camera zooms back to its normal place giving you enough time to get your bearings straight (Like Burnouts "Takedown Cam")

Wow! I hope they read that one! And even though only the last 30 seconds are available, because of rewinding and forwarding, and slow motion, the video could be minutes long and you could record from all sorts of angles. You could edit it later so all the different views are on a split screen at the same time

brok2

11-15-2010, 04:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
Did anyone here see Bullit set in SF? I read some reviews that said the chase scene wasn't as great as it was hyped. Is the French Connection chase scene worth buying the DVD/Blu Ray for? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the Bullitt chase is not overhyped. It was the first genuine, full speed film chase shot, and all of the driving is real. The wide angle perspectives always let you know exactly what's going on, and it takes the form of a genuine duel, with each driver trying different strategies to end the chase in their favour. The only problem is a few reused shots. Keep an eye out for that Green Beetle showing up everywhere!

The French Connection chase is way overhyped though, in my opinion. Gene can't drive his car more than 10 metres without hitting a car it seems, and chasing a train has a lot less room for strategy and badass driving as seen in The Blues Brothers or Ronin. The main reason people like it is the intensity Hackman brings to his driving, with a sort of hard set desperation there, but who cares- Roy Schneider does the same thing but 10 times better in his chase in The 7 Ups.

The French Connection has a better story than the snoozefest in Bullitt (though the chase in the hospital was pretty good), but the chase in Bullitt remains far better than most chases made even today. Especially crap like the Gone in 60 Seconds and Italian Job remakes.

PeaceMaker_101

02-03-2011, 05:28 PM

Here's an idea: Driver Online

You don't see too many new open world games nowadays, what, with games like GTA, Infamous 2, Prototype, Yakuza 4, True Crime: Hong Kong, etc. Criminal, fantasy, western, super hero, sci-fi (Destroy All Humans) and military (Mercenaries, Just Cause, etc.) settings have already been done. What we'll likely see for the next 5 years is a storm of sequels to these games, with few innovative titles. And seeing how Driver isn't doing very well, it might not be a bad idea to take its ideas to the massively multiplayer online experience. Test Drive's developer probably figured that it was running out of ideas, so it headed in the direction of the MMOG market. Maybe it's time for more game franchises to take a totally unexpected direction.

J_Frumpleberg

02-03-2011, 05:47 PM

Thats one of the things I've always wanted to do in Driver is just to be cruising around in Take a Ride and bump into other players online, chase them down or run. Most likely a destruction derby would ensue, imagine that with shift mode.

DSF is going to have multiplayer and online options from what I hear. I believe split screen multiplayer is in there too. So looks like Driver Online is on the way

brok2

02-03-2011, 07:02 PM

I'd be on board if it had online roaming the way Red Dead Redemption did it, but I'd never play a Driver MMO.

Bear in mind that GTA IV had a free roam multiplayer mode, and it's aimless nature led to it being one of the absolute least played modes in the game.

J_Frumpleberg

02-04-2011, 05:58 AM

I haven't played GTA4 online since I've owned it. Played it back when it first came out on my friends 360, and I just kept getting shot with bazookas

PeaceMaker_101

02-04-2011, 03:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
I'd be on board if it had online roaming the way Red Dead Redemption did it, but I'd never play a Driver MMO.

Bear in mind that GTA IV had a free roam multiplayer mode, and it's aimless nature led to it being one of the absolute least played modes in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've never been much of a fan of MMOGs, but ever since I heard about games like Guild Wars 2 and SWTOR, I became more hopeful that this genre will correct many of its past mistakes, like grinding. An MMO, no matter its genre, almost certainly needs some RPG elements that allow it to continue to feel fresh and to progress at a slow level. For instance, TDU2 has RPG elements where you level up, in which these points can be earned in 4 different ways (social, competition, discovery, and collection). As long as an MMO offers gameplay like that (minus the hours and hours of grinding) and maybe is both F2P (Free-to-play) and has low minimum system requirements, I just might jump on the boat with this genre.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I haven't played GTA4 online since I've owned it. Played it back when it first came out on my friends 360, and I just kept getting shot with bazookas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I know what you mean. My cousin and my friends played the hell out of that game. Too overrated if you ask me, considering how little the GTA games have changed, aside from GTA III's huge leap to a 3D world.

J_Frumpleberg

02-06-2011, 06:39 AM

I was thinking the other day, if the next GTA doesn't bring back planes, I might not bother with it. I would hope after all this time that they have added quite an arsenal of fighter jets (even 5 different jets would be very sufficient), make for some good dog fights

InsaneDriver06

02-06-2011, 07:25 AM

I'd like to see a giant demolition derby for Driver, offline and online, where reversing into the competition results in the best results, instead of slamming the front engine, which usually knocks out the radiator cooling system. Then the car starts smoking and gets on fire. Game over.

J_Frumpleberg

02-06-2011, 07:56 PM

I need to sit down one of these days and get back to programming, I still have a lot of learning to do, but I've been thinking about making a game...

Yes to any kind of destruction!

rors401

02-07-2011, 04:04 AM

I just hope for:

Driving planes, boats etc
Run people over!
Shoot people like in Driv3r!
Downloadable maps?
Fun, addictive gameplay http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

InsaneDriver06

02-07-2011, 06:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
I need to sit down one of these days and get back to programming, I still have a lot of learning to do, but I've been thinking about making a game...

Yes to any kind of destruction! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds good. It takes a lot of work as you know, but the end result can be very rewarding, especially if you're able to get it on PSN or 360Live these days. Or just make the game for fun.

If I could make any game right now, I'd make a side scroller Raiders of the Lost Ark type game, with swinging ropes, pits of lava or spikes, trap doors, alligators, bats, etc. Like Pitfall 2 or Tomb Raider but in 2D. Then I'd make a top down Formula 1 racing game.

J_Frumpleberg

02-07-2011, 07:49 PM

The graphics I think would be pretty simple, probably PS1 style. I'd want to be able to have lots of action going on. If it seemed good enough I might even go the minecraft route and charge $10

InsaneDriver06

02-07-2011, 09:20 PM

Let me know when it's online and I'd buy it.

J_Frumpleberg

02-08-2011, 05:51 AM

Okay, but don't hold your breath haha

brok2

02-10-2011, 05:31 AM

I always wanted, if I could program, to make a game that controlled like Soldat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4H-YRQwd2o&feature=related), but instead of side-on it would be top down, and it'd be a singleplayer game in the style of the first Die Hard film. You're one guy with a pistol, against a finite number of heavily armed bank robbers in a single skyscraper, and you had to sneak around taking them out or foiling their plans, depending on how you chose to play. Enemy locations would be randomised, and you'd have maybe an hour or so (realtime) to either kill them all or foil their plan.

I always thought it was a kind of unique style idea for a game... that is until I found out that the game already has been made! I couldn't believe it! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FTSOCrgnA8) (Though the control is very different. Think GTA1/2 instead of soldat)

InsaneDriver06

02-10-2011, 07:24 AM

Top down view games are interesting. I played Into the Eagle's Nest years ago. It was similar to Gauntlet, but you had to find keys and figure out some puzzles and fight loads of WW2 enemies. Very difficult game to beat, set in a giant military base.

J_Frumpleberg

02-10-2011, 04:27 PM

Soldat looks awesome! So does Battlezone and Art of War (related videos). I'm gonna download these games, I love these old fashioned side scrollers. I wish more games nowadays were made like this, but hey, I can get them free online!

PeaceMaker_101

02-11-2011, 09:18 AM

This may be a bit off-topic, but I just would like to know what you think about LA Noire's gameplay. It really looks to set itself apart (perhaps even more than Red Dead Redemption did) from its competition, with the detective work (puzzle elements) that players will need to solve.

http://www.gametrailers.com/vi...ies-l-a-noire/710343 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gameplay-series-l-a-noire/710343)

I really like the idea of including some adventure elements in an open world game, especially since it makes a game seem mentally challenging, as opposed to just relying on hand-eye-coordination skills. The Godfather: Part 2 tried something new, too, with its strategic, open world gameplay, even if it didn't turn out as well as originally expected. We definitely need more variety in the open world sub-genre.

It can argued that D3 and DPL's on foot mission structure was not remarkably distinct enough from other open world games. They weren't very focused on actual police work; if anything, they were GTA missions, disguised as cop work (i.e. find the target and kill him/her, destroy his/her car, etc.), especially considering how many more times you had cops going after you, either in a vehicle or on foot than any criminals that were after you.

Should we see more detective-like open world games in the future? Would Driver's on foot benefit if it functioned in similar ways, as opposed to the traditional, GTA way?

J_Frumpleberg

02-11-2011, 05:19 PM

Well if you want Driver to take a more original approach then why would you want them to copy LA Noire?

I personally would not play the missions if I had to do paperwork, sit on the side of the road and watch for speeders, question suspects, etc. Driver is an action game, about an undercover cop working for gangs, its all about the chase, and hopefully one day, gunfights again. But I digress

gforeal

02-11-2011, 05:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Driver...its all about the chase, and hopefully one day, gunfights again. But I digress </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would only be okay with that, just as long as it wasn't as much as D3 and PL had.. TOO MUCH shooting! Or else they could have some type of thing where the gunfight cutscenes' were interactive somehow... Like you were controlling Tanner not just in the game itself, but in the scenes as well, when he gets into some type of a fight. And then the gameplay itself could still be all about the driving. ?

brok2

02-11-2011, 10:50 PM

I'm intrigued. I think it will probably bring a new layer of much needed depth to sandbox gaming, but at the same time I hope that I can come home from work and bomb around in it for a while without having to do a mental puzzle. All in all though it looks like it's shaping up to be worthy of the first Mafia.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vercetti3:
they could have some type of thing where the gunfight cutscenes' were interactive somehow... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Woah woah no way! Take away gunfight gameplay and replace it with QTEs? Not on your life! Aside from destroying the replay value, it wrecks immersion, insults your intelligence and ability to think on your feet, and feels like a dance-dance-revolution minigame inserted into a game and genre it has no place being in whatsoever. Gunplay all the way, and if the game is long enough, you won't even notice the ratio of gunfights to car chases. I never even thought about it in Mafia, mostly because I was just focussed on the great story and wondering what would happen next.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Soldat looks awesome! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's like good old Unreal Tournament- the perfect jump in and have 5 minutes of total carnage before quitting and doing something else- except you can open the game and be in a match in about 1 minute flat. It's perfect.

gforeal

02-12-2011, 07:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
Woah woah no way! Take away gunfight gameplay and replace it with QTEs? Not on your life! Aside from destroying the replay value, it wrecks immersion, insults your intelligence and ability to think on your feet, and feels like a dance-dance-revolution minigame... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you misunderstood. That wasn't what I meant. I didn't mean interactive like that! No button mashing, blah blah blah.. I mean like, some type of thing where something like actual gameplay was inserted into a cutscene somehow.

PeaceMaker_101

02-12-2011, 10:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Well if you want Driver to take a more original approach then why would you want them to copy LA Noire?

I personally would not play the missions if I had to do paperwork, sit on the side of the road and watch for speeders, question suspects, etc. Driver is an action game, about an undercover cop working for gangs, its all about the chase, and hopefully one day, gunfights again. But I digress

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wouldn't mind seeing some more gunfights, but, at the same time, I'd like some more variety in the missions, and LA Noire seems to be taking that to the next level. It offers some driving and gunfight missions, too, but they're just not as frequent as you would expect from most open world games. And what's wrong with that? Besides, taking some time away from action going on constantly would be a good way to progress the story and characters better than in the previous Driver games.

LA Noire isn't even out yet, and already you're saying that you wouldn't like some more mentally challenging, mystery-solving missions in an open world game, even when no other open world game on the market has attempted this yet? What kind of appreciation is that for innovation?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vercetti3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
Woah woah no way! Take away gunfight gameplay and replace it with QTEs? Not on your life! Aside from destroying the replay value, it wrecks immersion, insults your intelligence and ability to think on your feet, and feels like a dance-dance-revolution minigame... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you misunderstood. That wasn't what I meant. I didn't mean interactive like that! No button mashing, blah blah blah.. I mean like, some type of thing where something like actual gameplay was inserted into a cutscene somehow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmmm...are you talking about interactive cut scenes like the ones in MGS3? If so, I actually wouldn't mind being able to control the camera or do some additional things like that in the game. However, I don't like the idea of substituting gameplay for QTE's, and MGS3's approach is pretty different from that one. Much of it is pretty optional even, so you don't need to do anything within a cut scene if you don't want to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...VX8w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe9P_IEVX8w&feature=related) (starts at 00:28)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...VX8w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe9P_IEVX8w&feature=related) (06:18 and at 08:13)

J_Frumpleberg

02-12-2011, 03:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">you won't even notice the ratio of gunfights to car chases. I never even thought about it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
E X A C T L Y ! ! !
I don't understand why everyone throws a fit over this ratio bull****, does anyone really play the game and say, "You know what? I could use 5% more guns." HECK NO!!! Its a free roaming game, there is no formal ratio!

Good car chases and gunfights can coexist. Might not have been perfected yet, but someones bound to do it eventually, right?

Interactive cutscenes are annoying, the whole point of a cutscene is to sit back and relax, not have to search the screen for an indicator telling you you can press a button. I don't like having to choose dialogue either

LA Noire might be good, I haven't really payed it any mind, as I'm not terribly interested. I like action games, and I'll have to give Soldat a try, I just wanna turn on a game, not have to deal with the constraints of a clock or tiny play area, and blow stuff up. I do like a challenge sometimes, but mostly I'm just wreaking havoc in GTA, and everytime I buy another game, I question myself "Why did I just waste money on this game when I have GTA?"

Except for Driver. FREE ROAMING FOR LIFE!!!!

InsaneDriver06

02-13-2011, 08:40 AM

I would like 5% guns, 95% driving ratio....... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But really, if the gun play was fluid and fast paced, with intuitive controls that weren't stiff and clumsy as in RE5, but more like a great FPS with 3rd person view as well, I'd be interested.

As far as detective work, as long as I'm searching files while blasting away the guards in the game, that'd be acceptable, otherwise it might get dull if there was too much silence.

PeaceMaker_101

02-13-2011, 10:54 AM

If there's one thing that I think should be stressed enough, it's the fact that fans of gaming franchises may be contradicting themselves a lot in their feedback, and that is holding back innovation in a lot of games, as Treyarch pointed it out in this article:

http://gamasutra.com/view/news...nting_Creativity.php (http://gamasutra.com/view/news/32786/Treyarch_Contrarian_Gamers_Are_Stunting_Creativity .php)

That's not to say that all the core values of a franchise can be abandoned, but to put severe restrictions on how a game franchise should continue to exist and evolve may not be the best idea either. And the same goes for Driver. I want Driver to continue to be heavily focused on car chases. It can, however, offer some non-violent, adventure/puzzle elements , where you take a break from both the on foot and driving action, and I believe that more room should be made for these missions than for those involving gunfights.

With that said, Driver still will remain very different from LA Noire if/when it chooses to diversify its missions by offering some mental challenges. At this point, the open world genre is very exhausted (particularly with offering too many over-the-top missions and gameplay features), so expanding the genres that the missions fall under might very well be the best option for all new and existing open world game franchises, if they wish to move the games industry forward.

Plenty of gamers may already be growing tired of the same, repetitive missions appearing from sequel to sequel. If game developers don't want this subgenre to become stale like the rhythm genre, where the Rock Band and Guitar Hero franchises eventually lost sales and popularity, then this issue must be resolved.

InsaneDriver06

02-14-2011, 07:38 PM

Interesting point Peacemaker, about Developers being confused about what gamers suggest they want in a game, then when they actually get it, they decided they don't want that anymore.

We've changed our minds on this forum about on foot a couple times, but I think part of that is because we're waiting for someone to really get it right.

GTA4 doesn't cut it for me when I have to wrestle with the controller to run and gun at the same time because the run button is the X button, but I'm trying to control the bumpers and two analogs at the same time. Who still thinks that's a good idea that they added it to RED Dead Redemption too?

In the end, the Developer needs to trust what they do best, then present it. It's probably a good idea they don't interact with their fans on the forums, as much as I'd like them to.

J_Frumpleberg

02-15-2011, 05:07 AM

I've always wondered about that too, cause there are two things I suggested WAAAY back before D3 that didn't turn out so well: losing health in car crashes (my "realism" days), and being able to outrun the cops in, say, a Ferrari

While I still want the Ferrari to be fast, it seemed to get lost in translation and turned out in D3 and DPL as "cops give up"

brok2

02-16-2011, 04:57 AM

In my mind the ideal developer has a very clear cut idea of what they want to achieve with a game, but they are mindful of and listen to the community. Like a writer on a book or screenplay, they listen attentively to the opinions of those they value the input from, and then they make up their own mind what to adopt and what to throw out, based on how well the ideas work with their original vision.

When I'm working on something I like to get as wide a range of opinions on it as I can, even if 95% of the feedback doesn't help, there may always be good ideas in there, and the ones that many people echo are particularly helpful.

Nobody should ever fear constructive criticism.

PeaceMaker_101

02-16-2011, 12:51 PM

Sometimes I really wonder whether or not we really need so much marketing in this industry. Looking at the movie industry, there aren't as many websites discussing how a movie's development is coming along, whereas we have IGN, GameSpot, GameSpy, etc. to talk about games. Also, movie studios don't really take feedback from movie watchers because you don't really see any community forums on websites from Paramount or Columbia Pictures. I guess it's because games are viewed not only as entertainment, but like software, and on software websites, like Microsoft's, you can find a lot of feedback on Windows Vista/7. In that sense, games are probably a lot more related to software itself than to movies or TV shows.

Even though this is the case, I think that marketing previews of games can often times spoil too much of the gameplay and/or story that gamers don't even up as happy with playing through a game as they would if they just waited more patiently.

PeaceMaker_101

02-16-2011, 05:01 PM

Open World Game Ideas (for Reflections, Ubisoft Montreal, Rockstar North, or any other game developer to consider for its games):

- Removal of many minigames (i.e. racing missions, taxi missions, ambulance missions, firefighter missions, etc.) like those found in GTA games, replaced with different classes to choose from: instead of being forced to play out a certain role in the game, you are given the option to play out a long storyline that includes choosing to be either a criminal, detective/cop, SWAT member, racer, etc.).

- Classes: Each class offers branching dialogue trees and different possible outcomes for each mission, along with incredible depth for its character development. The dialogue options would feel a lot like those in Mass Effect, whose dialogue system appears to be the best one ever implemented in a game so far (aside from that of Dragon Age's or The Witcher's). In addition, depending on what you play as, you have access to certain weapons. In real life, SWAT officers have access to submachine guns and sniper rifles, whereas a police officer typically uses a pistol, shotgun, or some kind of rifle. With the right contact and plenty of money, a gangster can get hold of any weapon. This makes the game more strategic and replayable.

- Create your missions and minigames: Now that the minigames are virtually nonexistant, gamers are given the tools to create their own minigames and missions, placing more power into the hands of the gamers themselves than ever before.

- Different styles of play: play out gunfights in an over-the-top way (several hits kill you and your enemies) or in a much more realistic way (one-hit kill). Likewise, car chases can be hollywood-like or realistic, where you can easily die from crashing into another car at high speeds). Mafia 2 included a set of features like this, but more can be done with it, should other sandbox/open-world games choose to have it.

- Party members: You can choose to have people join your group and accompany you throughout your missions and story. As more time passes, you begin to care more and more about them. They are even able to make all kinds of decisions like betraying you, etc., and they remember past events very well.

- Procedurally-generated enemies: this allows for a higher replay value, due to the fact that every mission will not play out in the same exact way the second time that you experience it. This would make the game more strategic, forcing players to really be careful about how they choose to tackle each mission.

- F.E.A.R.-like AI: The AI is very, very intelligent. Enemies can duck, run from cover-to-cover, sneak up on you, follow you all the way to the end of a level, etc.

- Stealth: More useful and in-depth than ever before in an open world game. Sometimes, you will really find it better to sneak up on your enemies rather than to just run through a level and blow your enemies away as they are alerted to your presence.

- Adventure gameplay: solve puzzles, primarily cases involving criminals, pick up items, etc. The adventure genre is given more importance than ever before in an open world game.

- Turn off any distractions during car chases. Gunfights, the shift mechanic, etc. can all be turned on/off, so that the game can appeal to a huge audience of gamers, not just those longtime Driver fans.

brok2

02-17-2011, 09:50 PM

I dunno- none of those ideas above 'procedurally generated enemies' seemed to me to have much of a place in a Driver game, whereas everything below 'party members' seemed like it'd be really good.

With 'turn off any distractions during car chases', I'd like something like that, but not bound to a switch or menu option- have it bound to the player's actions, not only so that they can choose how they want to play, but if they want they can change up the play style mid-mission (which classes wouldn't allow due to their restrictions).

For example, say you're chasing a truck. Ordinarily it's just pure driving and the mission accommodates that, but if you lean out the car and start shooting to weaken the truck more quickly, they start throwing crates out the back to slow you down. Note that they won't start throwing anything if you don't open fire first- thus it is the player that chooses the play style of the mission.

PeaceMaker_101

02-18-2011, 10:26 AM

Actually, I don't see why we can't have minigames left out and replaced with really well polished missions or why we can't have different classes. For instance, instead of focusing the series only on undercover cop work, we could have the option of offering more full length jobs, with real missions that give the game more of a believeable personality. To be honest with you, minigames never really appealed to me at all in most games, even open world ones.

Is implementing the same minigames (taxi missions, cop missions, etc.) going to do that much justice for every new open world game that comes out? Do you really think that the minigames in DSF will blow other games' minigames out of the water? I don't. Why not give players the option of "modding" the game? PC users can literally mod it, while console gamers can still get something out of a mission/goal editor that allows them to create all kinds of missions, besides just driving ones.

And, if we will ever see a well told story in a Driver game, having your own partners to help you out (as an option), wouldn't be a bad idea.

I also like the idea of classes in a modern day open world game because it forces gamers to play through a game multiple times in order to experience everything. Another option would be to have a trait/perk system like in Fallout to allow gamers to mix up different skills, instead of having something akin to that of RPG games' mage, rogue, and warrior classes.

InsaneDriver06

02-18-2011, 11:21 PM

Random enemies each time I play would be very welcome in a Driver game. I get tired of the same predictable patterns of the previous Driver missions, everything scripted.

I like high replay value most of all, not a game I'll play once and forget. Those games I trade in most of the time.

PeaceMaker_101

02-19-2011, 04:56 PM

Here are some more ideas that I recently thought of:

- An option to go HUDless (maybe could serve as a way to play the game with an even greater difficulty) or to even customize every aspect of the HUD

- A sort-of cross-platform (PC-to-console) experience: whenever mods/user-generated content is released, it can be played by a PC gamer or a console gamer

- A massively expanded Film Director mode: Instead of merely being able to create your own replay videos of car chases, you can even create your own stories with a way to create characters, dialogue, voice-overs, environments, etc. and place them into cut scenes.

- User-generated content : Rather than having a game developer depending so much on the free-roaming experience, let gamers create their own missions, minigames, vehicles, etc. to craft this experience for everyone. Let the developer focus on the quality rather than quantity of its product. Game developers can then create a much more bug-free, great story-driven experience, along with excellent gameplay.

I realize that there are technological limitations, maybe even some "laws" or rules that manufacturers, publishers, and/or developers have over allowing console gamers to mod software, but I'm certain that this will change in the future, as long as games like LittleBig Planet 2 continue to rise in popularity.

J_Frumpleberg

02-20-2011, 05:40 AM

Just made me think, depeneding on how long they're planning to go between the next game, and this goes for any and all developers, it'd be cool if they came here and asked the community what add-ons they wanted on the current game, now that consoles can do that

And with that, how would the rating system work if they did add on foot and guns into the DLC? How would you card people to know they're old enough? Is DLC the "wild west" of videogames right now?

ubigamercell

02-20-2011, 06:05 AM

Please release a demo before the game hits the shelves! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Driver 2 is still the best out of all Driver games in the franchise.

PeaceMaker_101

02-20-2011, 10:04 AM

Well, I really think that game developers could do better with their DLC content. Either offer more competitive prices or a lot more content, where it becomes more like an expansion pack than a few small set of features. I never was interested in DLC, partly because it had little things to offer me, whereas I did purchase a few expansion packs (Starcraft: Broodwar and all of the Civ 4 expansions) for the various PC games that I own.

brok2

02-21-2011, 02:58 AM

You may not like minigames, but a lot of gamers do. Besides, nobody expects a new game's minigames to blow away the competition (which makes it a lovely surprise when they do), they just expect some to be there. Take them away and their absence will most definitely be felt. Just look at Mafia 2- that's all everyone ever complained about- the lack of side jobs. There should always be little things to do when not on missions in a sandbox. Always.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
I also like the idea of classes in a modern day open world game because it forces gamers to play through a game multiple times in order to experience everything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's more than just that though; it forces the player to decide -before they even start- what abilities they will have, and therefore what path they will be forced to take. You can still get that multiple paths thing in a game without flat-out refusing access to paths based on how they are decked out. It's much more fun to get to a fork in a road and choose your own path, rather than being forced down one of the paths simply because you have the right gear for it.

- An option to go HUDless: as an option this'd be great for the players that want it.

- A sort-of cross-platform (PC-to-console) experience: That's limited by the technology, and I think we're still a few decades away from that one.

- A massively expanded Film Director mode: There's nothing wrong with more features in the FD, but the stories, characterisation, dialogue and voice overs are up to the creators, not the game. All the game provides is the environment, physics and character models. If you're serious about machinima you do what everyone else does, write your story down on paper and record your dialogue seperately.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- User-generated content : Rather than having a game developer depending so much on the free-roaming experience, let gamers create their own missions, minigames, vehicles, etc. to craft this experience for everyone. Let the developer focus on the quality rather than quantity of its product. Game developers can then create a much more bug-free, great story-driven experience, along with excellent gameplay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This'd be alright only if the developer didn't skimp on their story, and as simple as it sounds, so far I've never seen this happen. Not even with LBP. And another lesson we've learned from LBP is that 90%(ish) of all user generated content is crap, so while the option is there, most would find it more frustrating than rewarding.

PeaceMaker_101

02-21-2011, 05:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This'd be alright only if the developer didn't skimp on their story, and as simple as it sounds, so far I've never seen this happen. Not even with LBP. And another lesson we've learned from LBP is that 90%(ish) of all user generated content is crap, so while the option is there, most would find it more frustrating than rewarding. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think that you misunderstood me, brok2. When I was referring to user-generated content, I was looking at a much more complex set of tools than the ones found in LBP2; maybe something more along the lines of an actual development kit, like the ones found in a PC game. So, what you'd see is more professional game development done by the community itself rather than offering really simple, but also very limited tools like the ones in LBP2.

If people who want to get into the games industry could get together as programmers, artists, etc. and create content for a console game, it might even improve their chances of later going on to work for a good game developer. And, in this case, we would see some console gaming user-generated content take even as much as several years to be put together (like the Deus Ex mod called The Nameless Mod (http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-nameless-mod/news/the-nameless-mod-released), which was 7 years in the making), ensuring that the final product is as polished as possible. Why should a console game's commmunity not continue to support it for 5 years, 10 years (Starcraft 1), or even 20 years? There is no excuse for something like that, if those gamers are very loyal fans.

InsaneDriver06

02-21-2011, 06:42 PM

Yes to a "create a Driver game" mode.

I enjoy, when time permits, creating my own games. Anytime I found a "Create a Game" software on my old computer, I bought it, investing hundreds of hours creating games...

brok2

02-22-2011, 04:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:

I think that you misunderstood me, brok2. When I was referring to user-generated content, I was looking at a much more complex set of tools than the ones found in LBP2; maybe something more along the lines of an actual development kit, like the ones found in a PC game. So, what you'd see is more professional game development done by the community itself rather than offering really simple, but also very limited tools like the ones in LBP2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understood you. When I said that most user generated content is crap, it wasn't a criticism of LBP or it's limited tools. The problem is the user base. You could release an easy to use complete development kit with everything you'd need to make the next Halo, Gran Turismo, Starcraft etc, and almost everything that was made with it would still be crap. The majority of people that like to tinker with mods, skins etc only ever do just that: tinker.

What tools you have to use will never be the issue. Good game creators should be (and have been) able to create something worthwhile with limited tools, such as those in LBP. I'm all for more mapmakers and modding tools, don't get me wrong, but i stand by my claim that it would be more frustrating than rewarding because looking for the well made stuff will be like looking for a needle in a haystack. And nobody likes looking for needles in haystacks.

I suppose I should just point you to Yahtzee's (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/530-Little-Big-Planet) views on user generated content in this video (nsfw) since it's pretty much how I see most user generated content as well.

PeaceMaker_101

02-22-2011, 11:23 AM

Yes, I am very much aware of the fact that most of the content that is created by gamers as modifications to an existing game is crap, but there are still enough well polished examples to go around. For instance, we do have total conversion mods, even if they aren't aplenty when compared to just small additions like new skins for some characters. Also, when a game is desperately in need of being patched, and the developer itself is not as willing to do the work, having the community play a role in this could really help make a game's reception even better than before.

Saying that modding/user-generated content is pointless is like saying that why even bother playing fighting games if they hardly ever have anything new to offer. With enough patience, we can find those things that will seem appealing to us. And I see that no differently from the modding community than that of any other community.

brok2

02-23-2011, 03:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:

Saying that modding/user-generated content is pointless is like saying that why even bother </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're beginning to misunderstand me here- where did I ever say user generated content was pointless? I actually originally said I was all for it, provided the developer didn't see it as an excuse to skimp on their part of the deal, i.e. their own singleplayer, and by past examples they all have used it as an excuse to do just that. EDIT: Except for Super Meat Boy- that game got it RIGHT

I said I was in favour of more modding tools and mapmakers etc, all I'm saying is that what the user base made would mostly be dud. That's why it's so important that the singleplayer that comes with the game can stand on it's own. The user generated content should be a fun extra diversion to the main game, not the other way around.

InsaneDriver06

02-23-2011, 08:01 PM

Yes to less repetition and no to less variety.

Plus make some totally original car missions that no one has ever done before. I can't tell you how tired I am of the "Quietly follow that car without him detecting you as he flies through the streets at top speed." Or "Scare the passenger into talking". Boring......

I rather do a pure chase mission than that junk any day. IMO. I'd like some free form stunt missions with ramps, loops, etc. I dont' remember anything with much of that for missions.

J_Frumpleberg

02-24-2011, 05:20 AM

True, the missions should have something more to them than the minigames, and I too hate the tailing missions where you have to keep your distance. Scaring the passenger is too easy in a videogame, just crash into a wall at high speeds

InsaneDriver06

02-24-2011, 08:05 PM

Wishlist: Some DSF updates, and scenes of Marin County with trees, hills and dusty roads. Very soon please.

brok2

03-04-2011, 06:04 PM

You're kidding, right?

The 'scare the passenger' level was a fan favourite, and it appeared once. Not just in Driver, but in games everywhere, as far as I know, it only ever appeared ONCE. How can you be reasonably sick of something that was only done once?

I personally welcome the familiar misions alongside new ones. To me they're like bits of a bond movie formula- you just expect them to turn up, and when they do they're a familiar nod to the franchise and something to tick off your mental checklist. Bond flirts with Moneypenny, Bond gets captured, Tanner tails a car.

Seriously you may as well say you're sick of chasing cars- you do that a lot more in Driver than tailing or scaring people...

J_Frumpleberg

03-07-2011, 01:49 PM

Its just a boring mission. Drive slow for 5 minutes, then move on to the next level. Maybe the only redeeming factor is its an easy mission to take a break on between all the grueling smash-your-TV missions

Scare the passenger is just normal videogame driving without cops

InsaneDriver06

03-08-2011, 08:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
You're kidding, right?

The 'scare the passenger' level was a fan favourite, and it appeared once. Not just in Driver, but in games everywhere, as far as I know, it only ever appeared ONCE. How can you be reasonably sick of something that was only done once?

I personally welcome the familiar misions alongside new ones. To me they're like bits of a bond movie formula- you just expect them to turn up, and when they do they're a familiar nod to the franchise and something to tick off your mental checklist. Bond flirts with Moneypenny, Bond gets captured, Tanner tails a car.

Seriously you may as well say you're sick of chasing cars- you do that a lot more in Driver than tailing or scaring people... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless they take the "Fill his scared meter" or "Tail that guy but not too closely" missions to a whole, 'nother level, I rather hit a bunch of ramps or weave through heavy traffic any day. I'm not a fan of heavy restrictions during missions at all. Creativity is the best.

Favorite missions are ones where you're pursuing or evading. Just add new terrain and challenges so it's different every time, no scripted AI please. If I know his path every time, you're losing my interest.

J_Frumpleberg

03-09-2011, 05:19 AM

Driver should be the ultimate driving game - anything you've ever wanted to do while driving any vehicle you can imagine should be in the game, be it Mega Dump Trucks (http://loadstorm.com/files/dump-truck-beside-suv.jpg), other destruction causing construction equipment (more than a slow bulldozer), monster trucks, Formula 1, go karts, MOTORCYCLES, three-wheelers, wheelchairs, roadtrains, and yes, planes and trains

PeaceMaker_101

03-12-2011, 01:26 AM

I don't think that I want to go down that road again; Reflections is way better off just focusing on cars and maybe a little bit on motorbikes. If it can handle giving us some actually good on foot gameplay, then that would be fine, too. Still, let's all not get our hopes too high for DSF and for any other Driver game that comes out in the future.

InsaneDriver06

03-12-2011, 09:12 PM

I'd like to see all of that in an Create a Game mode, where you can add all the fun things you normally won't find in the regular version of the game. They could offer it as a bonus for finishing the game instead of as DLC later on. They'd offer an arena too, to create any kind of ramps or loops you want. Like Flatout almost.

PeaceMaker_101

03-12-2011, 10:56 PM

You know what? Seeing how Reflections has been spending way too much time again on the Driver franchise, I thought that after DSF is released, Reflections can work on another new IP, before making another Driver game. If only the Destruction Derby series could be acquired by Ubisoft, we might be able to see a remake of the first one, or DD3. I've seen some videos of DD1 and DD2, and I would love to be able to play them one day. Who knows, maybe we can see another game like Stuntman, only better commercially and quality-wise.

J_Frumpleberg

03-13-2011, 07:15 AM

Well, to me, Driver has the best vehicle physics, so its only natural that they should have the widest variety of vehicles, no matter how many wheels or wings they have. Time to show off! Plus, they're taking away on foot, might as well expand existing areas.

Obviously their physics engine is based on anything with 4 wheels, so making any vehicle with 4 wheels wouldn't be too hard, just data and trial and error to make sure it feels right.

Another vehicle, if boats are added - Hydroplanes!!!! (http://www.adamhoseyphoto.com/images/hydroplane_thumbnail.jpg). Boats need the most work out of the group, if they do add them, there needs to be something to do. Obstacles, other boats, ramps, narrow winding rivers... fishing???

PeaceMaker_101

03-14-2011, 12:18 PM

I can kind of understand that you (along with other people) might be curious as to how well a Reflections game would do with vehicles other than land ones, but I still feel like it would be awkward. This is almost as if we were asking for a simulator from Reflections, and we all know very well that that genre is pretty niche.

First of all, we cannot really jump to any conclusions without knowing how much DSF resembles D1 with its driving gameplay. If it is very faithful to the original game, then it's possible that Reflections has the right talent to do more with the entire driving experience. Otherwise, I don't know if there is any hope left in expecting the on foot to come back, let alone, for the driving to be enough on its own to compete against Rockstar North or another big game developer of sandbox games.

J_Frumpleberg

03-14-2011, 03:11 PM

I'm not really looking so much for a simulator, but Reflections does seem to have the best balance of realism and arcade physics, though as we've seen their boats and bikes need some work and probably wouldn't be up to par with 4 wheelers.

And as I said, what with on foot gone, some extra variety COULD go a long way, but don't add a different kind of vehicle like boats or planes if the only purpose they serve is to be an A to B kind of drive, with nothing in between

I guess it sounds a little more along the vein of Stuntman, but since they sold that franchise, maybe they could slip some elements into Driver? It might not be the same as Driver 1, true, but from the videos I've seen the physics look awesome. You can tell a lot just from watching the videos, just like with Hot Pursuit 2010 and TDU2, I saw the flaws with the physics but bought it anyway and am regretting it. Maybe I'll come around eventually and learn to like it

brok2

03-22-2011, 06:31 AM

I didn't realy mind the boats in D3. Being the only vehicles that couldn't flip unexpectedly on tiny curbs did give them an advantage, it's just a shame they were so sparsely located.

As for a Stuntman like game within Driver- I've never understood why they didn't do it. They kind of flirted a bit with it in D:PL, but there's no reason why they couldn't effectively put a whole Stuntman's content within a Driver game. GTA has already done Destruction Derby minigames quite well. No reason whatsoever that Driver can't do the same.

J_Frumpleberg

03-22-2011, 09:01 PM

Even if they just did the whole "Drop a Ramp" spiel, that'd be something else. Look at a lot of driving games for PC, most of them have been modded with ramps. I saw a video of GTA4 someone had a loop in and they were racing bikes around it.

EDIT Why Driver San Francisco needs a stunt editor of some kind (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxOKajECrbw) (please be able to use anywhere in the city!!!

PeaceMaker_101

04-18-2011, 05:15 PM

I'll admit that anticipating what could only be another typical driving game makes me wish that Reflections would take the best elements of both Stuntman and Driver 1 and add them into any future Driver game. This means that they should experiment with other land vehicles (like they did in Stuntman, along with D3 and DPL), as well as air and water vehicles, and provide the best stunts and <STRIKE>car</STRIKE> vehicle chases ever made. Add a feature like shift into another Driver game, and you've got the most instantaneous and convenient way of swapping vehicles.

J_Frumpleberg

04-18-2011, 05:26 PM

I'll never turn down airplanes. I'd agree that Driver should have all kinds of vehicles, no matter how many wheels, wings, what-have-you. Purists will argue that its only about car chases and should never change from what Driver 1 is, but if thats the case, play Driver 1, let the series grow, its never going to be exactly the same, so why try?

brok2

04-19-2011, 09:28 AM

See the thing is, if this was a new company and they needed to focus only on cars to get them just right, that would be understandable. However, Driver has had pretty much perfect driving controls since the first one (over a decade ago, folks), so there is NO reason why they can't branch out. They've GOT the driving down pat. Now expand. Expand like the wind!

J_Frumpleberg

04-19-2011, 07:00 PM

... or be left behind

It was always so frustrating to me that they didn't do that in D3 or DPL (at least DPL cause it had a helicopter).

In Driver 2 there was a semi truck on a ledge, I always wanted to drive that. There was also a tank somewhere I believe, and in Vegas you could see the planes in the airport, but you couldn't get inside to even try flying them. Also, the train.

In Driv3r you could finally drive that semi truck, and even bikes, but San Andreas came out the same year, and had all of the previously mentioned vehicles and more. Now imagine those with Drivers physics...

brok2

04-20-2011, 06:24 AM

Actually with GTA IV abandoning most of the variety of San Andreas, there's never been a better time for Driver or anyone else to overtake Rockstar. Pretty sure that Just Cause 2 and Saints Row 2 have more claim to the Sandbox throne now than GTA has (though Assassin's Creed 2 deserves special mention, despite being virtually entirely on foot).

J_Frumpleberg

04-20-2011, 07:04 PM

GTA4 did take a more "The Getaway" approach. And so it seems Rockstar has made the crucial mistake of potentially splitting its fans, and falls into the same trap probably every developer falls into. I suppose its unavoidable then, you're going to alienate somebody. Someone else will pick up the pieces where you left off though.

Its the same with bands, they get tired of the early work that made them famous and explore new stuff, like the Beatles.

...Anyway, I guess what I was going to say before that rant is I wonder what the next GTA will hold in store, they've got to be bringing back some of the stuff from SA, maybe with a more realistic side to it.

Either way, I'll buy it. Driver and GTA will probably be games that I will always own

PeaceMaker_101

04-20-2011, 09:37 PM

I don't necessarily think that Rockstar North is up to working and finishing GTA V as its next project. There was a game called Agent, if I recall correctly, that it was working on. Unless the game got cancelled to make room for what will be another GTA game, I'd say that it will be at least another 5 years before we see Rockstar North returns to its main game franchise.

Anyways, I'm kind of tired of seeing too many sequels from many game developers. It becomes so hard to look for original titles whenever we see the video game market oversaturated with game franchises.

Not to be mean or anything, but it may be the for the greater good to see some of today's dominant game franchises to fall, at least to allow more creativity and opportunities for other game developers to succeed, too. It is my hope that COD won't remain at the top for another 20 years, and let's face it; realistically speaking, the market does change over time, whether it's for the video game industry, the banking industry, or the retailer industry.

J_Frumpleberg

04-21-2011, 04:28 PM

Its up to the customer, if we're tired of a game, we'll stop buying it, and if thats enough of an impact to stop making it, then so be it. I think its been long enough without a new GTA, I don't really want them moving to a Half Life like schedule releasing a new game every 10 years.

As for creativity, thats up to the developers, and probably moreso the publishers/stock owners. But a small studio could step in with a radical idea that takes the gaming world by storm, they don't have to wait for someone to say they're allowed to do it, sure the competition might make it seem impossible, but Grand Theft Auto is not the only successful game of the last 10 years

InsaneDriver06

04-21-2011, 04:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by brok2:
See the thing is, if this was a new company and they needed to focus only on cars to get them just right, that would be understandable. However, Driver has had pretty much perfect driving controls since the first one (over a decade ago, folks), so there is NO reason why they can't branch out. They've GOT the driving down pat. Now expand. Expand like the wind! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tourist Trophy was Gran Turismo's Polyphony Digital's attempt to branch out. It was a decent motorcycle simluation despite the clumsy details, like a rider who was too lazy to "foot down" when doing a 3 mph turn and tipped over like a fool. Unfortunately, that was many years ago on the PS2, and based on sales, no sequel ever arrived, even after they hinted they'd combine cars and bikes into one game (which never happened).

I'd enjoy a driving/flying/riding game with realistic visuals, but not sure Reflections is willing.

I'd like if this or next round, we'd get a Destruction Derby/ Demolition Derby extra mode to tinker with, along with an arena stunt track editor.

PeaceMaker_101

04-24-2011, 12:35 PM

This probably the most random of all things listed in this topic, but I've noticed that there has not been a single GTA game or other open world game that featured a soundtrack with a combination of secular AND nonsecular songs. For those people who are Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, etc., it'd be a nice addition to have a greater variety of songs. Although when you think about it, it would be very odd to listen to Gregorian chant music while being chased by cops and running over pedestrians. Hmmm...perhaps game developers should consider dreaming up more nonviolent game mechanics, making games not only gravitate towards the same kind of legitimacy found in other mediums, but also towards a much broader scope of "freedom" in a game.

After all, what is "freedom" when you cannot do enough of everything in a game? Sure, there is a lot of processing power and memory/disk capacity that must be made into a reality before far more options can be explored, but that doesn't excuse developers from pursuing ideas that are less "barbaric" (involving nothing but endlessly slaughtering people). Even the GTA franchise eventually wearies itself out by offering little more to do outside of the story's missions, from sequel to sequel.

DSF_IS_EPIC

08-19-2011, 09:29 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:
This probably the most random of all things listed in this topic, but I've noticed that there has not been a single GTA game or other open world game that featured a soundtrack with a combination of secular AND nonsecular songs. For those people who are Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, etc., it'd be a nice addition to have a greater variety of songs. Although when you think about it, it would be very odd to listen to Gregorian chant music while being chased by cops and running over pedestrians. QUOTE]It was random but thank you,you made my day with this random comment I laughed pretty hard at this part" Although when you think about it, it would be very odd to listen to Gregorian chant music while being chased by cops and running over pedestrians." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifHaha thanks for that I love random comments now and again!!!!!

Unkwnsoldier28

08-19-2011, 09:33 AM

That would be pretty funny to see a person of a non-violent, religious nature playing a game that's rated M and about about music selection. lmao

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

J_Frumpleberg

09-08-2011, 05:42 PM

Well, now that the game is out and rumors that a sequel is already under way, what better time to revive THE WISHLIST!!!

I was thinking about making a new thread, and this way I could try to organize all the wishes into the first post for easy finding (gotta make it easier for Ubisoft/Reflections to hear this!). Would the mods have any problem with that?

brok2

09-08-2011, 07:49 PM

I'm usually against reviving massively old threads for no real reason, but the Wishlist has always sort of been in a category of it's own here on Ubi and back at Atari. Perhaps we should just keep this one running?

tope1983

09-08-2011, 11:15 PM

I'd say we start a new one with a different title.
eg:

"Driver San Francisco Sequel/DLC Community Whishlist"

or

"Community Whishlist for a Sequel/DLC of Driver San Francisco"

stunt__driver

09-09-2011, 01:30 AM

For download content, I would love to see a fully featured "Destruction Derby" mode. All the new graphics, damage etc... Perhaps as a homage to the early days, that and we really don't have a great demo derby game.

brok2

09-09-2011, 05:33 AM

All I want to see at this stage is a '70's cars only' option, where you can make ALL traffic the older cars. Either unlock it on the menu, or once the blast to the past challenge has been completed, activate 70's cars mode every time you take the Delorean to 88 MPH. Taking it to 88 again returns traffic to normal.

Surely that's not too unreasonable or difficult a task to perform, right?

J_Frumpleberg

09-09-2011, 07:31 AM

70's Mode
--------------
That'd be the best way to implement 70's mode. One thing though: they're gonna need more cars from that era. Maybe a car pack DLC of 70's and earlier cars. I'd pay for that, it replaces all the newer cars so we have 125 classic cars, and at 88mph, all the cars on the street glow like molten metal, and whenever the older model is loaded, they fade into the older car, with a few Deloreans still cruising around, or just one that you can rapid shift back to and is marked on the map.

I don't mind keeping this wishlist open, less work for me! Heres some stuff I thought up at work yesterday

Shift Upgrades/Abilities
-------------------------------
* Able to pick up objects and cars (even the one you're driving) and move them anywhere in the city. Throw them, stack them, drop them from great heights
* Instant Boost - Based on how full your boost bar is, this would instantly take you to full speed and empty your boost bar. Full Bar = Full Speed
* Switches throughout the city to activate things, for instance, open drawbridges (with control over how far to open them), a switch on train tracks that controls the speed of the train
* Able to knock loads off of semi trucks (anything with a bed on it), for instance, undo cars from car carriers, logging trucks - let the load loose, trucks with giant concrete pipes (http://www.pryces.co.uk/pics/Flatbed_with_concrete_Pipes.jpg), propane tanks, etc. Open back doors on semi trucks, set the ramp down and park cars inside
* Garage On-The-Go - Use shift to spawn cars from your garage, apparently this is in multiplayer but not singleplayer? Why?

Shift Fixes
-----------------
* When I shift out of my car at, say 150mph, and shift back in immediately, it is going very slow, or even stopped. Please fix this, its very annoying
* On missions where you need to get somewhere, if you shift out, the car will also stop and go the other direction, or just crash into a wall trying to make a turn it cannot make, instead of going down an alleyway you were headed straight for. If theres any way to fix this, please do. One idea I had was upon shifting out, you could set a point for the car to drive to, doesn't have to be that far, and it'll go there while you try to head on your pursuers

Cheat Code
---------------
* High horsepower trucks, enough to do donuts or drift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTOQSRMRcM). Any big vehicle, bus, semi, box truck, would have

Car Editor
----------------
* Make your own cars from scratch. To make it more user friendly, it should be like working with clay. You can pick a general shape and mold it, carve away at it. An tool for symetry that can be turned on and off at any time.
* Edit the cars stats, test drive them and edit stats on the go
* Remodel existing cars (from game or downloaded), share cars online, create car packs to replace some or all cars in game

driverseriesfan

09-09-2011, 03:17 PM

Next-gen Driver game (Driver 6)

Here is my list:

Let me say this. I think car editor is a GREAT idea. Make this a feature, so you can pimp out ur rides and fix up existing cars and old beat up junkers. Add lots of MODS and upgrades to the game, like design the car from the ground up. Design the basic shell of the car and shape. Design the engine and the insides of the car. And, change the interior color and fabric.

Features
----------------
* NEED Film Director.

* Use switches, like J_Frumpleberg said. Have active draw bridges, like D2 had. And, use switches for trains, make trains go on certain tracks/roots.

* Drive off-road, up/down mountains, through deserts and snow.

* Develop rain cycles and day and night cycles. Have working mirrors/windshield wipers.

Character Abilities
-----------------
* Do not have the option to chane ur character clothes. I think these to ideas are boring. Don't have the opion to eat either, we don't want this to be to much like a clone to the GTA series.

* Bring back on-foot. People like on foot mission, like in DPL, at least I do. I love on-foot action. it makes the game more exciting and interesting to play.

* Bring back the ability to swim. to have on-foot mission, you want the ability to swim.

* Make the feature to be able to pick up cars with tow trucks and pick up objects to do construction.

* have the ability to drive trains and boats and construction vehicles. Have train, boat, and construction missions too.

* Have the ability to fly planes/helicopters, and bring back the use of having guns.

Missions
----------------
I would like:

* On-foot missions
* Boat missions
* Consrtuction missions
* off-road missions
* Aircraft missions

Options
-----------------
* I would like gas to be an option. It doesn't have to be mandatory to get gas, and I don't mean like racing and then you have to make pit stops, but in free roam mode, when ur cruizing around, have the option to go and fill up your tank. I think this will be a good feature.

* Bring shift back, but only as an option, if you really need it to get out of tight jams, like if you totaled ur car, because i think shift, otherwise is a easy way out. People want a challenge and make it an option. I know that its an option now, but don't make it mandatory to use.

I may come upon more ideas later!

J_Frumpleberg

09-09-2011, 07:57 PM

Shift has made the game waaaaay easy. Of course I don't have to use it sometimes, but I do. Thats mostly because I want to unlock cars fast. Apparently after beating the game, a "new game plus" option is added, when you select that, you still have all the cars and garages and presumably the entire city. Then I'll replay the missions the old way

I would welcome on foot again (never wanted it to leave). Still, I do like shift, I think this game will be succesful because of it, its like being a kid, playing with your toy cars, you have control over all of them, time to destroy!!! So it can't really be taken away, because then another game will take it and make it better (if they're not already working on it).

driverseriesfan

09-10-2011, 07:47 AM

^^^
do you think they will have cars editor? do you think they will bring back on-foot and be able to let you to swim again and drive construction vehicles, boats and plane/helicopters and do mission with them?

J_Frumpleberg

09-10-2011, 11:10 AM

Well, they've said they haven't ruled out on foot, which is good. Not sure if it'll be in the next game though.

As for modifying cars, that will probably not make a return what with licensed cars, they looked into it for this game, but it would be too inconsitent with what you could do to modify them. Still, I'd welcome being able to do non-cosmetic upgrades to cars, bigger engines, turbos, gear ratios, it'd be nice to do custom paint jobs from scratch, do your own designs

The car editor, or perhaps I should call it Car Builder, I was talking about, would be like designing your own car from scratch, and if possible, they'd let us modify the existing cars too

InsaneDriver06

09-11-2011, 09:51 AM

Good ideas.

A new thread would be good for this. Who wants to start the new thread? "DSF2 Wishlist"?

This way they'll know what's needed for that thread and this older one.

J_Frumpleberg

09-11-2011, 04:25 PM

I don't think I'm going to start a new thread, but I am compiling these ideas when I get a chance, into a webpage. Hopefully I'll learn how to do polls so we can vote on the ideas. And maybe a comment box to send me your ideas. I only know the basics though and have to look at a tutorial site for a lot of things, so I may not get around to the cooler things

driverseriesfan

09-11-2011, 04:30 PM

J, tell me when you do this, then post the link. K, Thanks.

J_Frumpleberg

09-12-2011, 01:03 PM

no problemo. I almost have an early version done, its basic, but it looks nice, no graphics yet, I'm not a graphic designer, so those'll be basic too (it'll load faster than some of these GD games websites with 50 little images littering the screen)

I'll post here when I update

PeaceMaker_101

09-13-2011, 10:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:
Well, they've said they haven't ruled out on foot, which is good. Not sure if it'll be in the next game though.

As for modifying cars, that will probably not make a return what with licensed cars, they looked into it for this game, but it would be too inconsitent with what you could do to modify them. Still, I'd welcome being able to do non-cosmetic upgrades to cars, bigger engines, turbos, gear ratios, it'd be nice to do custom paint jobs from scratch, do your own designs

The car editor, or perhaps I should call it Car Builder, I was talking about, would be like designing your own car from scratch, and if possible, they'd let us modify the existing cars too </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
From what I've heard so far, Reflections' engine is a proprietary one and is going to be used in later titles, so who knows if on-foot will make a come back. I'd rather see a better implemented shift mechanic, with way more types of driving missions and MP modes than another watered down on-foot/driving game. Besides, DSF is kind of nostalgic (when compared to D1) when you think about it, with the driving-only game design that is at the core of its gameplay.

Traditional GTA III-styled games don't really feel as great as they used to. To me, playing them is like playing a bunch of shooters that feel too much alike. Fortunately, we do have a few titles that stand out from the rest of the competition, like Just Cause 1 & 2 (even though they're similar to Mercenaries 1/2) and a few others. If only we had more variety with the level design because that's probably the main element that causes most open world games to feel too derivative rather than refreshing.

Maybe one day, we'll see an indie game developer put a new spin on the open world genre. That would be interesting.

J_Frumpleberg

09-21-2011, 05:30 PM

This is a bit unrelated, but remember how we were talking about Car Football (Soccer) being a mini game in Driver (as seen in Top Gear). I've just stumbled upon this ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBazlExaDYs&feature=related) for a mini rc car football game! Looks like fun, I wonder if I could get it shipped to the US?

InsaneDriver06

09-21-2011, 08:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PeaceMaker_101:

Maybe one day, we'll see an indie game developer put a new spin on the open world genre. That would be interesting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peacemaker,

What if in the next game, they open up all of the closed off areas offroad, but go a step further, and add ramps to the top of every building, with bridges connecting them to one another? Sure, it's not realistic, but would be tons of fun flying off the top, hitting ramps and flying rooftop to rooftop, 100 stories high.

New DSF SEQUEL WISHLIST thread being started now...

J,

Yeah, I'd like to see something like that, but also the arena stunt idea we were hoping for... And building damage too..

brok2

09-21-2011, 09:39 PM

I think ramps on the roofs would be much better than bridges- Vice City style.

One thing I had really hoped for in D:SF was an Italian Job spoof, in Minis, tearing across rooftops and jumping from building to building. Didn't end up getting an Italian Job mission, rooftop ramps OR minis in the end...

But yeah, all roofs should have ramps if they're close enough to another. Not realistic, but fun, and rule of cool.

J_Frumpleberg

09-22-2011, 05:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But yeah, all roofs should have ramps if they're close enough to another. Not realistic, but fun, and rule of cool </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, throw realism out the door, the only place realism belongs is in the physics engine, with a few exaggerations (and a few more for motorycles so we're not falling off all the time)

I still want Drop-a-Ramp to be implemented, it could be a shift upgrade, and hopefully it would give us all sorts of tools like what Stuntmans "park editor" gave us, only with the ability to be able to drop and move ramps on the fly with no load screens, the main reason I don't play on Stuntman is because you set up the park, not sure if the ramp is the right distance, play it, not right, have to go through a few load screens before you can edit, and a few more before you can try it again

And I do like licensed cars, but I have to say unlicensed is cooler, you can get basically the cars that you want, and you can damage them properly. I really hate the limited damage in DSF, for me it takes away the fun of crashing

J_Frumpleberg

10-05-2011, 09:06 AM

Sorry for the double post, but I was just looking through google images and found a page I thought was interesting. I hope in a future Driver game some roads on the outskirts of the city will be more like this, even if they don't exist near the city:
19 Greatest Driving Roads on Earth (http://www.inautonews.com/19-greatest-driving-roads-on-earth)

CJZporsche

11-01-2011, 09:43 PM

Hope next-generation game achieve online free cruise and friends system function
i just like with friends free cruise...like TDU2 online

Dynamic Weather
Cycle time
Realistic car features details..
For example:
Wipers, vehicle turn signals, etc.
Slightly larger map

thanks ubisoft team http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

brok2

11-02-2011, 10:58 PM

You do realise that D:SF already -has- online free cruising with friends?

Everything else is a plus- except I don't see the point of going right down to little details like working wipers...

tope1983

11-03-2011, 03:25 AM

I agree:
less limits in the gaming world and proper car and damage physics would make Driver much more long-lasting.

After I finished all the dares and side missions I don't really like to play on.
I enjoyed the story a lot, the pace was excellent, the narrative design the best in the series and I also appreciated the idea of an imagined and real world that come together. It was new and special.
The whole story was just too short IMO. Dares and movie challenges were also a nice addition.

BUT there was a lack of EXPLORATION and TRYING THINGS OUT (which are basic elements of an open world).
The car physics and invisible walls are all designed to keep the gameplay fluent. This works nice with the story and a lot of missions.
But it takes away too much for just exploring the map and cruising around. New and unique situations simply do not occur in this game. And you hardly can "produce" them.
And as the film director is broken, I just quit playing the game after finishing all of the tasks.

So for a next installment I'd like see more adjustable content. There should be elements which make a player get active. Tools he can use. Things he can try out and not just tasks.
All this starts right at the physics engine (car flipping...) vehicle damage and a free driveable environment.

PeaceMaker_101

11-11-2011, 09:18 AM

GTA IV has gone the route of a less comical narrative experience to a more serious one. And I don't doubt that being the case with GTA V either, especially judging by the person talking in the trailer, who appears to have wanted to step down from the criminal world, but has been pulled back in. And with the economic times of today playing some role in GTA V (couple that with the serious narrative found in games like RDR and LA Noire), that also should be a green light for the series continuing to take a more serious route.

And it's not really that bad, especially when the Saints Row franchise has the humor aspects covered, probably even better than R* could have ever envisioned for its own franchise. Likewise, Driver should continue to take a less serious route and possibly driving-only one (unless Reflections has some very, very innovative ideas for the on-foot).

J_Frumpleberg

11-11-2011, 04:20 PM

I was bored on Youtube yesterday and wandered into Driv3r trailer territory. Despite not having the replayability of the first game, I think it was the peak of the series:

* Cars flipped entertainingly
* You could drive almost anywhere, there were a few invisible barriers (should get rid of all of them!)
* You could get out of the car and shoot
* Cars could be blown up
* Motorcycles and I guess boats
* Cities looked better

I don't even really play DSF anymore. I would play D3 if my PS2 would work properly and not give me a "controller unplugged" warning everytime my car makes contact with something

DSF does have some stuff going for it, drifting, good car list, tough chases, lots of car jumping, but not enough things to make it a long lasting fun game.

I would argue to switch back to unlicensed cars and combine D3 and DSF gameplay styles, driving, shifting, on foot WITH weapons

If the series survives, apparently sales are better than expected, but who knows. Most people I have talked to about it (not many) said "Oh yeah, I played the demo, it was fun" and I'm assuming aren't planning on buying it

brok2

11-11-2011, 06:25 PM

It was definitely the most amitious from a technical point of view, but I still think that D1 (and yes, even D2) were better overall games. I'm on the fence still about whether D:SF or D3 is better, though I'm leaning towards D:SF. It's the most fun to just wander aimlessly around in, even without offroad sections. Both are miles better than D:PL though.

Do you have controller rumble enabled on your PS2? Turning that off might affect the console's ability to detect your controller.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would argue to switch back to unlicensed cars and combine D3 and DSF gameplay styles, driving, shifting, on foot WITH weapons </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Completely agree- I actually think that the D1-3 system of all cars limited to 88 MPH works much better for multiplayer purposes. With D:SF it's always the same old thing- get on to highway, boost, weave while watching boost meter refill, boost, repeat. It's even worse for pursuers, as they're concentrating even more on the boost meter recharging, only to see the target boost away just as much as they can. With a slower top speed, Highways become less ideal for escape, and getaways are encouraged to stick to smaller roads in the hope of using actual driving skill to out-corner pursuers much like movie car-chases actually do.

Before D:SF, I don't think I can remember a single person complaining that the cars didn't have logos on them or didn't look exactly like a real world counterpart. Now that they do, the floodgates are open and everyone's complaining about how their favourite car, truck or the TV-on-wheels that they drive isn't in the game. This is why I always thought toys should be approximations of something- the kid can fill in the blanks about what type of plane/car whatever it is, but if it's a die-cast highly detailed perfect replica of a Hawker Hurricane complete-with-battle-damage... You're going to have a hard time if you wanted to pretend you were holding a Spitfire...

J_Frumpleberg

11-12-2011, 06:42 AM

Not to mention it'll save them a lot of time and money, and if you really want licensed cars, get the PC version. Hopefully people will port the cars over from other games. Hows modding coming along for DSF PC?

One more point for D3: City streets were sometimes narrow, and didn't have wide sweeping turns that IMO make the city feel more dull. DPL started to introduce such a layout, and then DSF too it to the max.

Another: Cops chased you for traffic violations, though a pause menu option for immunity would be nice

As for top speed, I think I have to partially disagree. I do like the thought of evenly matched cars, pitting just drivers skill against eachother, waiting on someone to make a mistake or badly placed traffic, but at the same time I also would like to drive 240mph in a McLaren F1.

Cops should respond in roughly similar cars, Corvette ZR1 for the supercars all the way down to the Dodge Monaco for slower cars

EDIT: Also, Thanks Brok! I wish I would've thought to do that a year ago. Now I can play Driv3r and GTA3-SA again

KINGmatan

11-13-2011, 10:59 AM

I seriously don't understand what people don't like about D:PL. I've played every game in the series (except from D2 since I didn't have a PS1) and I really think D:PL is very fun. Great driving experience, very nice cars, you can get out of the car and shoot, nice graphics, cool damage system and cars flip nice (but not as good as D3), car customization, tough chases, you can shoot from the car, fun smashing through garbage in alleyways, cool story and characters, and many more. Sure this game looks similiar to GTA, but I think it still somehow feels like a Driver game.

brok2

11-13-2011, 07:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:

One more point for D3: City streets were sometimes narrow, and didn't have wide sweeping turns that IMO make the city feel more dull. DPL started to introduce such a layout, and then DSF too it to the max. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I hated D3's Miami, I loved tearing through Istanbul, and you remember that circular old town to the east end of Nice? I thought that was some of the most brilliant city level design I've ever seen- it was like some sort of labyrinthe puzzle.

Thing is though, the width and curve of the roads is directly linked to the speed of the cars. There's no way you could take a Zonda from D:SF and be able to push it to the limit in D3's cities. This was another problem D:PL had- the roads couldn't support the performance of the cars, though the congestion had a lot to do with it too.

I agree that having wider, slow sweeping roads all the time does make for a more dull city design, but it's the only way you can support cars that fast. You have to choose between slower cars with more intricate roads, or faster cars with more open highways everywhere. You just can't have it both ways.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for top speed, I think I have to partially disagree. I do like the thought of evenly matched cars, pitting just drivers skill against eachother, waiting on someone to make a mistake or badly placed traffic, but at the same time I also would like to drive 240mph in a McLaren F1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair enough, but if multiplayer game setup could choose cars from set classes, you could have your cake and eat it too by having a 'supercar' class that went way above and beyond the speed of the regular cars.

Also I don't mean every single car goes 88- I'm talking D2 and 3 style, where for 70's musclecars, 88 is the ceiling, but other vehicles like trucks, vans and buses go slower. Assuming the game was in the 70s with modern supercars as an unlock, I figure it could work really well with carefully designed, varied multiplayer arenas.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">EDIT: Also, Thanks Brok! I wish I would've thought to do that a year ago. Now I can play Driv3r and GTA3-SA again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem- it was the way you said it stopped working on a collision that made me think of the rumble doing it. Glad to see you can play the classics again!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KINGmatan:
I seriously don't understand what people don't like about D:PL. I've played every game in the series (except from D2 since I didn't have a PS1) and I really think D:PL is very fun. Great driving experience, very nice cars, you can get out of the car and shoot, nice graphics, cool damage system and cars flip nice (but not as good as D3), car customization, tough chases, you can shoot from the car, fun smashing through garbage in alleyways, cool story and characters, and many more. Sure this game looks similiar to GTA, but I think it still somehow feels like a Driver game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I find D:PL the worst in the series is because it is so safe, and so utterly bland. If it were any other driving series than it'd be an ok game, but compared to the other games in the Driver series it was just pathetic. Granted, the car designs were really cool, and you can shoot from the car and out of it, but outside missions there was nothing to shoot at, and many features of past driver games had disappeared- most notably the Film Director.

The car handling, again, would have been fine in any other series, but it was too arcade compared to the precision-tailored car handling of the first three games, and much like D3, the hitboxes on the cars would often cause them to end a flip on their roof with you powerless to do anything about it. The city was incredibly boring (and being New York it was already a way overused poor choice of a sandbox city anyway).

The traffic was ridiculously thick, and the chases were not tough at all. Not compared to 1-3. I think in D:PL, apart from the last two levels, I may have only ever had to repeat a mission just once, because my car was already battered from the jaunt across the city to get to the starting point. At least in D:SF it's a pleasure to get around the city and stumble across dares. In D:PL you're stuck in narrow streets with dozens of cars, and more often than not they'll be a bunch up at an intersection and the traffic will crawl to a stop for two blocks leading up to the intersection. I probably spent more time in that game driving on the footpath than I did on the actual road.

The car customisation was completely pointless to me. I looked at it once and never came back, because the missions were so easy I didn't need them. I could just about pick any decent car on the road and do the mission in that. The debris in the alleyways were kind of cool, but again, the earlier Drivers all had it too, plus a lot of other stuff missing in D:PL. I would much rather have a quarter of the amount of crap in alleys if it allowed flying hubcaps, sandpiles, car pouncing and varied weather to return. Also the health bar. Much better than coloured smoke, and it's a good thing they went back to it in D:SF.

Like I said, it's an alright average, safe game on it's own merits. But compared to the other Driver games it's pathetic. The story is in some ways even more one-dimensional that D1's, though I did think that 70's TK was cooler than Tanner ever was before D:SF. At least before he came out of prison and became the same boring grizzled man of few words that Tanner and every-other-game-protagonist-under-the-sun was at the time.

J_Frumpleberg

11-14-2011, 12:59 PM

Yes, going back to narrow roads would be a challenge for supercars, but I'd be up to it, plus you could still max it out on the highway, or a runway (if Reflections ever lets us off the road again...). Look an Formula 1 cars, aside from tracks not really having 90 degree turns, they still have hairpins, its all about braking, cornering and acceleration. I think this could work just fine. If they don't spin out, they'd still beat a muscle car I'd wager though.

Those supercars do spoil me though, I rarely go for anything less

I also loved that old city area in Nice and pretty much all of Istanbul. The main thing I liked about Miami was being able to drive between buildings, there were a lot of places you could do this.

I do like car modifications, but I'm mostly into performance upgrades. I admit I'm a sucker for spoilers though. Anywho, turbos, nitrous, superchargers, engine swaps, etc its all good with me. One thing we need to go along with modification is a quick and easy way to get your car back, with shift, how about just respawn it (all of my ideas deal with free roaming, because I don't play missions over unless they're good, so before people say "Well that'll ruin the challenge" just stop)

DPL was alright, but it was a dumbed down version of D3. Cars didn't flip right, on foot controls were reduced to GTA standards, cartoony looking, cops couldn't navigate the traffic, chases were way too easy, annoying helicopter, one of my least favorite things about GTA

PeaceMaker_101

02-01-2012, 07:19 PM

I just thought that it might be interesting to mention one game that had the potentially to be more innovative than most games on the market but failed to really impress anyone. That games was NeverDead. In NeverDead, a game made by Rebellion (worked on an AVP game), you're able to have your character lose his limbs, only to find that you can regain them by rolling over to them or waiting long enough for them to regenerate. This could have had great ideas for survival and puzzle-solving, but due to the incredibly poor variety of enemies and uninteresting level design, this game fails miserably. Even the story and its characters are poorly executed and unlikeable.

My point is that innovation doesn't always make guarantee a great product. Though, it may inspire others in the future to take that same idea and actually put it to good use. We've seen this happen with games like Fracture, TimeShift, and others, which had interesting game mechanics but didn't do well enough in every graphic (i.e. graphics, sound, gameplay, etc.) to be considered successful.

That said, I really want Reflections to continue innovating with its franchise, but also worry about quality above everything else. I don't want the rest of the Driver games to feel so much like each other that they end up too repetitive for me to play. And there are so many times that you can nail the on foot and driving right with all of the exact same things that originally made a franchise great.

tope1983

02-01-2012, 08:01 PM

Driver has also always been outstanding in its vehicle destruction and highlighted not only movie-like car chases but also car crashes.
This got lost with DPL and continued in DSF.

For a better vehicle damage and more accurate crashing physics I'd immediately drop the "licensed cars".
I mean it's nice to see them but if the result is a watered down damage handling like in DSF I'd get rid of them. The time and money that was spent on implementing all the license stuff could be spent to a load of other things...

And a real working movie director with much more options is a must.

PeaceMaker_101

02-02-2012, 12:33 AM

As one article on Destructoid mentioned, when arguing against the new direction in RE6 and of the RE franchise altogether, removing all limits in a game would make it feel like every other game. Apply that principle to all other games, and every developer would not have its own unique ideas. Therefore, even the choice behind offering on foot + driving in all open world games risks taking this route. Likewise, keeping all driving games in the modern setting (when already probably 95% or even as many as 98% of the games out there focused on vehicles are going down this route) is a really easy way to halt innovation greatly.

Source: http://www.destructoid.com/resident-evil-6-hoping-for-evolution-fearing-conformity-220086.phtml

Maybe you never were a big fan of games like F-Zero, Kinetica, Jet Moto, etc., but that shouldn't mean that you need to be so hard on other developers who are trying very hard to distinguish themselves from the rest of the competition. They are the ones who will drive this industry forward. NOT these GTA clones or modern military shooters. Sorry, to use the term "GTA clone," but it's true that this category of games is already pretty overflowing with little creativity. The same goes for any Burnout, Need for Speed, or GT clones.

While you're off playing every modern racing title, from NFS, to Burnout, to Midnight Club, to Forza, etc., I'll be playing anything from F-Zero, to Mario Kart, to GT, etc. I like a greater degree of variety. It's the only way to keep me invested in a game or genre.

brok2

02-02-2012, 01:48 AM

Sorry, to use the term "GTA clone," but it's true that this category of games is already pretty overflowing with little creativity. The same goes for any Burnout, Need for Speed, or GT clones. Well actually, just about every single sandbox game that has come out- no matter how generic- has brought something new to the table and has therefore advanced the genre. Even D:PL, perhaps the most generic of the lot, had the suspicion meter that hadn't been seen before. Open world games have all the creative possiblilities of linear games and then some. It's not the genre's fault that they share so many similar elements, it's a combination of narrow mindedness/budget restraints that prevent a developer from exploring those untapped possibilities, and a deliberate measure to keep the gameplay familiar, and therefore comfortable, to a generation of gamers that are well versed in how a sandbox works. Don't worry though, this small-steps approach t oinnovation is still doing the industry a lot of good.

Not to mention that it's the competition of similar games that force companies to strive to improve their games to keep their edge. Look at GTA for example. They got complacent with their market dominance, made the turd of a game that was GTA IV, and then both Just Cause 2, AC2, and Saint's Row came in and gave the people the fun they had been expecting from GTA. Can you imagine if GTA never had that competition? It'd be the same **** game every year with a different car roster if you're lucky.

And being stuck with GTA IV as the only sandbox option around isn't something I want to even think about. *shudder*

EDIT: Wow, is that word really censored? Is 'darn' and 'drat' censored as well? They're about on the same level after all...

J_Frumpleberg

02-02-2012, 05:00 AM

not to mention, if we had unlicensed cars, we could have modifications... just saying

Sure innovation is usually slow, but once in a while someone brings a big leap to the table, like going from Driver 2 to GTA3. And, once again, as brok said, it usually comes down to budgets and timelines and then you got some gameplay on the chopping block. When you read an early article on a game, it says you can do one thing, and when the games finally released, its nowhere to be found. Tis the sad reality of the videogame industry, and pretty much everything else. Thats why we have sequels, add-ons, and mods

PeaceMaker_101

02-02-2012, 05:47 PM

ClaudeSpeedTr

02-02-2012, 10:58 PM

New Driver out of the car must be a stroke. Should be aiming. Writers
must be long. Other offenders must not only Jericho. We are very fond
of Jericho and Tanner. We Solomon Caine, Alvaro Vasquiez not forget ...

PeaceMaker_101

02-07-2012, 02:39 AM

I'll go ahead and mention some ideas (along with new ones) that I had in another thread, so as to further increase the chances that these ideas are noticed not only by the other users here, but also by Reflections.

- bullet time gameplay
- crowd gameplay (where events like crime scenes, parades, festivals, etc. can alter the way you interact with everything/everyone around you. Even the missions would feel much more varied as a result)
- decent stealth mechanics for missions that take place inside buildings or at times or places that don't involve a whole lot of police activity or witnesses being around. This could be further complemented with the crowd gameplay, where even the degree of people that are around in certain areas will be much more dependent on things like crime rates and other factors that are realistic in affecting a town's or block's population.

brok2

02-09-2012, 02:24 AM

Seeing how, right now, the futuristic idea is probably not even a very realistic approach yet for consoles and the PC, I thought that I could build on the first idea that I had, which was to make the game more humorous, silly, and possibly over-the-top. What's wrong with featuring all kinds of enemies, including non-human NPCs? Maybe enemies that aren't too huge (Godzilla-like), due to hardware limitations, but still ones that can be mildly entertaining to run over or kill in some other way. Besides, what isn't fun about imagining a town full of zombies to run over or blast away at? Or how about some aliens, whose weapons can actually be picked up and used on anything you can find? Having realism with some degree of silliness wouldn't hurt.

You can make a game more silly and over the top without bringing out stuff that is completely out of place. Yeah, maybe running down zombies would be mildly amusing, for a minute or two, but after that you'd just be left wondering why the hell they put that in the game. If ever there was a change that would need a whole new franchise, it would be this.

What would the monsters/aliens even do in a car chase game, anyway? Once you've chased them in a car, or had them chase you in the car, what's left? Have the monsters driving cars too? What's the point? You can get all that gameplay just fine without turning the whole thing into a genre mashup that only half caters to each audience and leaves nobody satisfied.

My ideal idea of a Driver game is more over the top and humourous too, but it also remembers what genre it's supposed to be- Driving, in an open world, taking down crime, preferrably undercover. Driver isn't supposed to be some mashup between War of the Monsters and Carmaggeddon. It's supposed to at least be down to earth.

Blues Brothers was silly and over the top. The Italian Job was a bit silly and over the top. Short Time, Mr. and Mrs. Smith and For Your Eyes Only were a bit silly and over the top, and they all worked without having to put freaking aliens in there just to feel more self-secure. Their stories were all generally more interesting that the super serious Bullitt, Ronin and French Connection, too. It just goes to show that you can have interesting stories in any genre, if you know what you're doing, and you don't have to break the genre just to get a cheap thrill.

J_Frumpleberg

02-09-2012, 03:24 AM

One of my favorite things about San Andreas was all the "myths" about UFO's, aliens, bigfoot, etc. I wish GTA would go more that route instead of their recent foray into "realism", it shouldn't be a common occurence, but make it seem possible somehow in the gameworld that you could see bigfoot if you're in the right place at the right time. To me at least, it seemed pretty obvious in San Andreas that if you stood out in the middle of the forest, nothing was going to happen, except maybe a plane flying over

I wouldn't fight it if Driver did these things, because of the better car handling

zain611

02-10-2012, 06:26 PM

The one tough question is for the developers is: Will this be for PS4 or PS3:confused:

PeaceMaker_101

02-10-2012, 07:46 PM

You can make a game more silly and over the top without bringing out stuff that is completely out of place. Yeah, maybe running down zombies would be mildly amusing, for a minute or two, but after that you'd just be left wondering why the hell they put that in the game. If ever there was a change that would need a whole new franchise, it would be this.

What would the monsters/aliens even do in a car chase game, anyway? Once you've chased them in a car, or had them chase you in the car, what's left? Have the monsters driving cars too? What's the point? You can get all that gameplay just fine without turning the whole thing into a genre mashup that only half caters to each audience and leaves nobody satisfied.

My ideal idea of a Driver game is more over the top and humourous too, but it also remembers what genre it's supposed to be- Driving, in an open world, taking down crime, preferrably undercover. Driver isn't supposed to be some mashup between War of the Monsters and Carmaggeddon. It's supposed to at least be down to earth.

Blues Brothers was silly and over the top. The Italian Job was a bit silly and over the top. Short Time, Mr. and Mrs. Smith and For Your Eyes Only were a bit silly and over the top, and they all worked without having to put freaking aliens in there just to feel more self-secure. Their stories were all generally more interesting that the super serious Bullitt, Ronin and French Connection, too. It just goes to show that you can have interesting stories in any genre, if you know what you're doing, and you don't have to break the genre just to get a cheap thrill.
Fair enough. I don't even expect most Driver fans to be happy with a game concept like that anyways. Instead, this is where my whole randomly generated events and realistic crowds come into play with updating the old, familiar driving experience.

One of my favorite things about San Andreas was all the "myths" about UFO's, aliens, bigfoot, etc. I wish GTA would go more that route instead of their recent foray into "realism", it shouldn't be a common occurence, but make it seem possible somehow in the gameworld that you could see bigfoot if you're in the right place at the right time. To me at least, it seemed pretty obvious in San Andreas that if you stood out in the middle of the forest, nothing was going to happen, except maybe a plane flying over

I wouldn't fight it if Driver did these things, because of the better car handling
I guess you could say that these situations were more random events (just like the idea that I had), which were there for the player to explore, independent of the story itself. It made the free-roam aspect a lot more adventurous and exciting. Now that GTA IV stripped itself of most of the features that made San Andreas and the previous GTA games so great, we're left with a shallow world. Ironically, taking the more realistic approach killed its realism by making everything more dull and empty. So, while San Andreas may have had some silly, sci-fi, fantasy elements in it, there was still so much more stuff to do, giving you that sense of a city that is alive and working all the time.

Just discussing this whole idea of making more randomness and variety in the next Driver game as a whole makes me think that we should make a thread about it and devote all our ideas and impressions on it. If there's one thing that Reflections can really take notice of and work hard to implement well into the next Driver game, it's this feature.

brok2

02-11-2012, 02:45 AM

I guess you could say that these situations were more random events (just like the idea that I had), which were there for the player to explore, independent of the story itself. It made the free-roam aspect a lot more adventurous and exciting. Exactly- already that's an example of innovation and more interesting gameplay, while sticking to the right genre. It's not hard when you know where to look!

J_Frumpleberg

02-11-2012, 07:25 PM

zain611
The one tough question is for the developers is: Will this be for PS4 or PS3
I'm sure it will be for PS3/X360 and possibly Wii U, as far as I know (I do not visit gaming websites anymore), no successor to either HD console has been announced yet, and they already have a lot of the work done on the game engines, hopefully a few more tweaks, and they can put together another city in probably a year or two. On Reflections facebook page they said they'd have some sort of announcement for us soon. Of course, soon usually ends up being 3 or 4 months, but still

PeaceMaker_101

02-11-2012, 07:35 PM

I've heard reviews complaining about Saints Row 3 not being nearly as funny or interesting as its predecessors. I still don't get the reason why so many people like the series when it hardly succeeds on any level. "Pubertal humor," as tope1983 (if I recall correctly) said. That's why I'd call it. Nothing but cheap laughs here and there. I guess it received attention mainly because it had a customization system for the main character and, more importantly, contained an online multiplayer experience before any GTA game could do this. After that, there wasn't much else to rave about the other Saints Row games.

Because humor is still in its infancy in games, I would rather see Reflections steer clear of it and take a more gritty, serious approach again in the next Driver game (possibly with a few comic relief moments thrown in to the story and maybe misc. ones that are similar to GTASA's when free roaming). That's the only way we'll see better implemented, more nonlinear missions, especially when it comes to multiple outcomes and endings. Toss in random events with that, along with on foot gameplay, and you've got a game full of so much replay value that you'll play it for months or even a year.

zain611

02-11-2012, 10:58 PM

^^Was thinking of getting that game sometime next week to take my boredness out for a while because with open world games they are packed full of fun like parachuting, flying, killing etc but its a hard decition now:confused:

tope1983

02-13-2012, 06:04 PM

"Pubertal humor," as tope1983 (if I recall correctly) said. That's why I'd call it. Nothing but cheap laughs here and there.

yeah, u quoted me correctly :)
subtile humour or a little more depth is what I like... but not running around with pink *****s or ****ing at pedestrians....

J_Frumpleberg

02-14-2012, 01:02 AM

I agree, keep the *****s out of Driver, they should be used elsewhere

Anything that fires bullets, rockets or grenades is cool. I wouldn't mind a flamethrower either, though make it unlike GTA where you can run AND use the flamethrower.

That said I highly doubt a flamethrower will make it into the game

brok2

02-16-2012, 01:26 AM

Because humor is still in its infancy in games, I would rather see Reflections steer clear of it and take a more gritty, serious approach again in the next Driver game (possibly with a few comic relief moments thrown in to the story and maybe misc. ones that are similar to GTASA's when free roaming). That's the only way we'll see better implemented, more nonlinear missions, especially when it comes to multiple outcomes and endings. Toss in random events with that, along with on foot gameplay, and you've got a game full of so much replay value that you'll play it for months or even a year.

You're kidding, right? Humour is in it's infancy in games? Games have proven to hold humour every bit as sophisticated as other mediums, with games like Day of the Tentacle, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Bad Company and Deadly Premonition all finding ways to make us laugh. Sure it's not every day that something as cleverly funny as Psychonauts comes around, but -again- that's due to the individual developers, it has nothing to do with the capabilities of the medium.

Driver has finally delivered a memorable story involving a more humourous angle and a Tanner who is genuinely likeable for the first time, and you think they should scrap that? They alreay tried the gritty and serious approach in the first four games and as a result the storylines didn't stand out at all from the sea of other serious gritty games. The level of humour introduced in D:SF is in a way the single biggest improvement it's brought to the franchise, and the tone of the game has nothing to do with linearity of missions and the options they provide. If anything, the presence of humour opens up more possibilities for why and how actions take place in a story.

And I would rather play a hundred Saint's Row 3s than another GTA IV. One of the reasons GTA retained such a market dominance was due to it's irreverent humour and over the top nature. Now that it's doing away with that, it's becoming a mere shell of the series it used to be. Sure Saint's Row is juvenile, inconsistent, and light on realism. But it's taking over, slowly and surely, and even though I'm not a big fan of the series myself, I'm glad it's around because it represents a section of sandbox gaming that hasn't forgotten what gaming should always be about- fun. If GTA V turns out to be much like GTA IV, I'll personally probably skip it entirely and go back to enjoying Just Cause 2.

As far as Reflections goes, they've done better in one humourous game release than all the serious stories they've made in the last 13 years combined. If there's one thing they should definitely stick with in storytelling, it's the humour!