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Outlaw---
01-14-2011, 01:24 PM
Does anyone use a LCD or Plasma TV via HDMI for their monitor? I'm thinking of going this route but my 1080p LCD TV from the bedroom I used for a test will only support 30Hz interlaced when running at 1920x1080. I'm hoping this is due to the fact that it's several years old and not a limitation of a hardware spec. or my video card.

Of course, no one at any store can tell me anything.

Thanks for any info.

--Outlaw.

Outlaw---
01-14-2011, 01:24 PM
Does anyone use a LCD or Plasma TV via HDMI for their monitor? I'm thinking of going this route but my 1080p LCD TV from the bedroom I used for a test will only support 30Hz interlaced when running at 1920x1080. I'm hoping this is due to the fact that it's several years old and not a limitation of a hardware spec. or my video card.

Of course, no one at any store can tell me anything.

Thanks for any info.

--Outlaw.

Ba5tard5word
01-14-2011, 01:47 PM
I don't know about your Hz issue but here is a somewhat recent topic where I talked about using an HDTV for gaming and I don't really feel like typing it all up again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...241073109#9241073109 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/9241073109?r=9241073109#9241073109)

Outlaw---
01-14-2011, 03:24 PM
Thanks for the info BS. This is a dedicated game rig so good for games is all that matters.

--Outlaw.

GoToAway
01-14-2011, 03:26 PM
Terrible idea if you care about picture quality at all. You're far better off getting a monitor.

Outlaw---
01-14-2011, 04:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoToAway:
Terrible idea if you care about picture quality at all. You're far better off getting a monitor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do you mean by "monitor"? An LCD TV uses the same technology as an LCD monitor does it not? I'm leaning towards plasma due to the response time but haven't decided. The picture quality on the older LCD I tested it with is fine for the games I've tried but, as BS noted, the desktop is not acceptable at 30 Hz interlaced. 720p at 60Hz looks fine but that resolution is a bit low for my tastes. I want a better return for my capital on this one.

--Outlaw.

GoToAway
01-14-2011, 05:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Outlaw---:
What do you mean by "monitor"? An LCD TV uses the same technology as an LCD monitor does it not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes. In the same way that a two-stroke uses the same basic technology as an R2800.

Monitors are made to be viewed at close range.
TVs are not.
Spacing/sizing of pixels are different. Response times are typically higher on monitors. Color fidelity is better. Contrast and luminosity tend to be superior.

These are all side effects of them being specifically built to be viewed up close as opposed to from the other side of the room.

If you don't care about image quality and want a "big" screen or will be sitting at a normal viewing distance, than by all means use a TV. I have one of my computers hooked up to a TV (or at least I did when I had a TV http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ), but I didn't use it as a monitor. I used it as a TV to watch movies/etc from the computer.


I've seen far too many people stick TVs on their desks only to realize that it's not such a great idea after all.

Consider that a decent 30" monitor is going to display at 2560x1600 (or better) and that a 32" TV is still going to be displaying at 1920x1080.

You don't notice that from across the room.
You do notice that if you're sitting right on top of it.

Outlaw---
01-14-2011, 05:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Yes. In the same way that a two-stroke uses the same basic technology as an R2800.

Monitors are made to be viewed at close range.
TVs are not.
Spacing/sizing of pixels are different. Response times are typically higher on monitors. Color fidelity is better. Contrast and luminosity tend to be superior.

These are all side effects of them being specifically built to be viewed up close as opposed to from the other side of the room.

If you don't care about image quality and want a "big" screen or will be sitting at a normal viewing distance, than by all means use a TV. I have one of my computers hooked up to a TV (or at least I did when I had a TV Roll Eyes ), but I didn't use it as a monitor. I used it as a TV to watch movies/etc from the computer.


I've seen far too many people stick TVs on their desks only to realize that it's not such a great idea after all.

Consider that a decent 30" monitor is going to display at 2560x1600 (or better) and that a 32" TV is still going to be displaying at 1920x1080.

You don't notice that from across the room.
You do notice that if you're sitting right on top of it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a problem then as this is going to be more like 50" and there will be no desk involved. Thanks for the comparison.

--Outlaw.

Ba5tard5word
01-14-2011, 05:52 PM
You will definitely want to use a 21 or 24" monitor for internet stuff, typing stuff, RTS games if you play them, etc. 32 or bigger TV is just too much to have right in front of you on a desk and makes it hard to see small things like units in an RTS game or text on a webpage.

I play most pc games with a gamepad so it just makes more sense to play on a TV than on my 21" monitor--I can sit a ways back from the TV and kick my feet up on the couch. On the small monitor my eyes get tired more easily. Graphics look fine on the big TV. It looks a *little* washed out in Il-2 on the TV compared with the monitor (despite playing at a higher resolution on the TV) but that might be a TV settings thing, and it still looks good and it just feels more immersive and Track IR works better.

The issue with playing Il-2 on an HDTV though is having a desk set up. Like I said in the other thread I have to move my entire desk in front of the TV so I have a comfortable set up for my stick and keyboard and so on, and that is a pain in the neck because I live in a small apartment so when I move the desk it basically blocks off half of my apartment. You'll want to probably be around 3 feet away from the TV to feel comfortable and be in a good range for TIR. Of course if you have a bigger TV than my 32" one I guess you could maybe sit further back, or maybe not.

GoToAway
01-14-2011, 05:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Outlaw---:
Not a problem then as this is going to be more like 50" and there will be no desk involved. Thanks for the comparison.

--Outlaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not a problem, then. As long as you're at the normal viewing distance, you're fine.

BillyTheKid_22
01-14-2011, 06:25 PM
HDTV 32" and Monitor 20", VGA input! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Outlaw---
01-14-2011, 08:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
The issue with playing Il-2 on an HDTV though is having a desk set up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except there will be no desk involved.

This is my projector setup that #&%t the bed...

http://www.whtboys.org/projector/shot1.jpg

http://www.whtboys.org/projector/shot2.jpg

http://www.whtboys.org/projector/shot3.jpg


This is my rig with the test LCD TV in place...

http://www.whtboys.org/cockpit/shot1.jpg

http://www.whtboys.org/cockpit/shot2.jpg

http://www.whtboys.org/cockpit/shot3.jpg

http://www.whtboys.org/cockpit/shot4.jpg

The flight controls are the Logitech G940 I picked up a couple of weeks ago.

This "prototype" rig has been in use for almost 7 years now and it's time to move forward.

I plan to make a new one out of welded steel and sheet metal with a more aircraft like vertical "instrument panel". I will actually mount the small touch screen instead of it just sitting there along with mixture and prop pitch levers as well as various buttons/switches.

I plan to "pretty up" the trim wheels as well and mount them in a more realistic location. The N52 keypad is there for playing FPS games and doesn't stay there when I'm flying. I will also make the keyboard tray strong enough to support a wheel when I want to race. All in all I think it will take me 873 years to complete based on my current rate.

--Outlaw.

GoToAway
01-14-2011, 09:54 PM
Projection != LCD

I'd caution against a 50" flatscreen at such a close range.

Honestly, at that scale, I'd go with a modern projector. It's still not going to give you the quality of decent monitor, but it will be better than a TV.

But if you're dead set on it, I doubt I can change your mind.

It begs the question, though...
If you have enough cash to build a projection setup (which are nowhere near cheap if you're using halfway decent gear,) why not just buy a big monitor? 30" at close range will beat the hell out of a projection (or flatscreen) on the other side of the room.

And if you want bigger, IBM and a few other companies make bigger displays that would probably run you less than a decent projection setup.

Normally I wouldn't suggest such a thing, but you seem willing to spend ludicrous amounts of money...
And if you're willing to do that, you might as well get the biggest bang for your buck.

I'm not sure why you're fixated on TVs in that case.
Go high end projection or high end monitor. It's a much better use of your money.

Outlaw---
01-14-2011, 11:40 PM
A 30" very high resolution monitor is $300-$400 more than a 50" plasma TV.

The high resolution is useless unless your video cards can drive it. At the rate games are increasing detail I'll have to upgrade 2 video cards every year to keep up at ultra high resolution.

The rig in the picture is a test only. The plasma (or LCD) will be mounted on the wall in the final configuration.

A high end projector is also $300-$400 more than the plasma. Part of the goal is to get my rig out of the middle of the room which is where it has to be if I use a projector b/c the screen can't be mounted anywhere convenient due to the sloped ceiling. The projector itself takes up too much room as well and it takes a $175 cable to reach from the PC back to the projector. Also, projectors are great until the bulb burns out which is what happened to mine. The bulb costs half as much as the projector. The newer bulbs aren't that expensive but they aren't cheap. The life printed on the package is an exaggeration to say the least.

I'm leaning towards a plasma due to the response time. Overall a high end LCD looks better than the plasma in the side by side comparisons but the plasma definitely looks better with lots of motion.

Out of everything I've looked at, the best bang for the buck is, by far, the plasma.

--Outlaw.

Ba5tard5word
01-15-2011, 12:38 AM
Well looks like you've got a desk setup. That room looks about the size of my entire apartment! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif The way you have the TV set up is about how far I like to have the 32 incher from my chair, once you start setting it up you can see what distance feels comfortable for the bigger TV.

Also I like having the TV put lower than you have it so my head is facing straight at around the very middle of the TV. When you're setting it on the wall make sure it's at a height that's comfortable for viewing, if it's too low you'd be straining your head up I would imagine.

Anyway I think the TV will work great, I like using mine for Il-2 a lot better than my small monitor.

Outlaw---
01-17-2011, 06:36 PM
I pulled the trigger on a 50" 3D Panasonic Plasma on Saturday. The $1000 off the regular price at Fry's put it at $899, only $100 more than a similar non 3D Samsung model.

My eyes are about 10 inches closer than the recommended minimum but moving back makes no difference that I can see. Games rock with this setup. The darks on the plasma are like staring into a black hole (at least, how I imagine staring into a black hole might be). Hopefully it won't get any burn in to screw that up (at least for a long time).

As expected the desktop is not quite as crisp as I would want for a desktop PC but that's not what this rig does.

The 1920x1080 resolution at 60hz looks awesome. Currently the front speakers are in the way but I'm going to mount them (including the center channel which is behind the keyboard right now) on the wall. I plan to mount the rear speakers as high up as I can near the back just to get them off the floor a bit.

Before the move the cabling was a giant tangled mess. I spent a few minutes of cable management time and cleaned it up quite a bit.

Here are the pics...

TV Mounted - Rig Being Moved
http://www.whtboys.org/newrig/Seatout.jpg


Everything in Place (Mostly)
http://www.whtboys.org/newrig/FullRig.jpg


It's Like a Whole New Room!!!
http://www.whtboys.org/newrig/RoomWithAView.jpg


ClusterFrick of Cables Before...
http://www.whtboys.org/newrig/ClusterFrick.jpg


DeClusterFricked Cables...
http://www.whtboys.org/newrig/DeClusterFricked.jpg


--Outlaw.