Manual TDC - A tutorial for newbies - updated 13.March

[yngvef]

The Manual TDC Tutorial by Yngvef - Last update: March 13 2008


Updated March 13: Crew can estimate speed for you after patch 1.3. See details under "Speed" in the tutorial

Small update (June 21): I've added the part about firing a salvo and using spread angle at the bottom of the tutorial.


WELCOME TO THE TUTORIAL

This tutorial uses the "torpedo school" tutorial mission in the game. Here, I will try to explain everything. You might know some of these things already, but I figured it would be easiest to just take the entire process step by step. Remember, that this isn't the ONLY way to do it. You can determine speed, AOB and range in any order you like, but this is the way I usually do it.



1: Identification

When you find your target:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/00-Mlet.jpg

The first thing you must do is to identify it. Open the recognition manual with the "N" button and select the nation. "Japan" for all naval military vessels, "Merchant" for all merchant vessels. This is clearly a naval vessel, so we select "Japan":

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/01-Identifiser.jpg

Turn the pages until we find the match:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/02-Dobbeltsjekkogsendinfo.jpg

When you have determined the type of ship, click the button i've marked to automatically send the "mast height" to the TDC. Now, the TDC only knows two things: It's a Mogami heavy Cruiser with a mast height of 111.5 feet (will be in meters if you play with metric). When you've clicked it, the little grey arrow will change to the correct mast-height:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/03-Mastehydeoppdatert.jpg

*
EDIT: You can also enter mast height manually by dragging the little grey arrow. This is practical if you know the height of the mast but don't want to flip through the recog.manual, which is quite slow. A neat trick, if you're attacking a convoy for example, is to check out which ships you're planning to attack and remember their mast heights. This way, you only need to alter the little grey arrow, and don't have to identify every ship over again when you're firing.



2: Range

The next thing we must do is to find out how far away it is. Because we know the height of the ship, we can now find the distance with the "Stadimeter":

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/04-VelgStadimeter.jpg
Click the button to get the "double-image" of the stadimeter. Move the mouse down to see the two images exactly on top of each other (the highest mast just touching the waterline on the other image):
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/05-Brukerstadimeter.jpg

When you're satisfied with the image, click the left mouse button again to store it in the rangefinder. REMEMBER: The distance is NOT sent to the TDC yet, so we'll have to do that first:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/06-SendavstandtilTDC.jpg

Click the button to send info to TDC (as the tooltip says). As you do this, both distance and bearing is sent. Bearing is the relative angle of the target as seen from the sub: 0 degrees bearing = straight ahead, 90 degrees = directly starboard (right), 180 degrees = behind, 270 degrees = directly port (left).

Now, the TDC knows the distance of the target and what direction it is in. If the target is stationary, this is all you need and can fire the torpedo right away... This ship, however, is moving, so we need more information in our target solution before firing.



3: Angle Of Bow - AOB

The next step is to determine AOB. AOB or Angle Of Bow is the angle you are looking at the ship from. It's the exact same as bearing, only it's reversed by trying to figure out what bearing your sub is in seen from the target. In other words: an AOB of 0 degrees is a ship coming directly towards you. and AOB of 90 degrees is a ship seen directly from the starboard (right) side and so on. I usually just turn the AOB wheel until it seems correct. This is NOT a very crucial information for the TDC. It should be reasonably correct, but at short distance (which you should always attack anyway), an error of 10-15 degrees is no problem. Determining AOB takes a bit of guessing and a bit of practice, but is quite easy really. Turn the AOB wheel until you're satisfied:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/07-AOB.jpg
Once again, remember to press the button to send the information to the TDC.



4: Speed

Now, the TDC knows distance AND AOB. All we need now is speed.


***** UPDATE: *****
With patch 1.4, the speed determination has changed. You can still do it as described in my speed tutorial, but there is a new and very simple way (too simple in my opinion, so I don't use it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif )

It works like this: You find range and AOB as before and then wait for a while. When you update the range data again, you can go to the speed dial and click the "Estimate target's speed" on the left side of the speed dial. I believe this is a solution to the "where's my crew"-question that many players have. It is indeed strange that the captain of the boat has to do everything himself; all calculations, marking on maps, navigating etc.. Anyway, the longer between the range readings and the more accurate they are, the better the speed estimate is. When the crew comes with an estimate, all you have to do is send the data to the TDC the same way as with speed and AOB and you are ready to fire. (the estimate is automatically "dialed" on the speed dial, so all you have to do is press the "Send data to TDC"-button again. But remember: The crew might get it wrong because your range data is bad, so a healthy dose of common sense is required: If a small slow-moving freighter is estimated to travel at 28 knots... well, then something is wrong and has to be done over.

Because the automatic speed estimate is somewhat too easy and automatic for my taste, I still would like to refer you to my thread about speed determination: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/1091073255

When you've found the speed (I found out roughly 9 knots), turn the speed wheel to the correct value and click the button to send the speed information to the TDC:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/08-Setterfarta.jpg

Also, notice that I've switched on the red light on the position keeper (PK). The PK constantly updates the target information (distance, AOB and bearing) depending on the information YOU have provided for it, and it also takes account for your subs movement. REMEMBER: The PK is only as good as the target solution. Also, the solution on the PK will get worse and worse as time passes as an error in speed, AOB or range will make the difference larger and larger as time passes. It's not a good idea to make a solution, switch on the PK, wait several minutes and THEN attack. You should always update the PK with new information of range, AOB and speed if you find new values that seem more correct.



5: ATTACK

Now that all values are set and the PK is switched on to update the solution, I'm ready to fire:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/09-Skyter.jpg

It's a hit:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/10-Treff.jpg

Mission completed:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/11-Shipsunk.jpg



RESULT

A very good solution it would seem as all my 4 torpedoes hit the ship almost perfectly on the middle. I could have fired a spread ofcourse, but I didn't in this example. The Mogami started exploding after just two torpedoes, but it never hurts to make sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Firing salvos

I've just copied this from page 2 of the thread, so it's easier to find:

The game doesn't appear to have a salvo setting like in SH3. To fire a spread of torpedoes, you have to fire, switch tube, change the spread angle and fire again. The angle you choose is an added or subtracted angle to the angle determined by the target solution. At about 800 meters on a tanker seen from the side, I would probably use "4 degrees left", "2 degrees left", "2 degrees right" and "4 degrees right" or something like that if I was to fire 4 torpedoes.

It's faster if you use the keyboard commands when firing: "W" to cycle tube and "Enter" to fire (Unless you're using the "Flavored to taste" mod that for some reason disables this button).

Also remember that once you click the fire button, the gyro angle is locked into the torpedo and you can immediately change the spread angle for the next shot, or even create a new solution if you need to. You don't have to wait for the torpedo to leave the sub and the crew to say "Torpedo in the water". I say this because some people believe they have to wait those several seconds before firing the next, and that can create some problems like the torpedoes arriving with such a great time difference that the target has time to maneuver between the impacts, making you possibly miss with some of the torpedoes.

Finally, when I fire a salvo, I usually fire from left to right if the ship is moving from left to right, and the other way if the ship goes the other way. This is because if the targets speeds up when spotting the torpedoes (as some warships tend to do), the next ones will still hit because they are set to hit further and further forward on the ship, instead of further and further back, that may cause most of the salvo to miss.

Firing salvos can also be a neat trick when attacking convoys. I like to create a solution for one of the ships in the middle of the convoy, and then fire a full bow salvo with evenly spaced torpedoes (from -6 to +6 degrees for instance). This way, if you're a bit lucky, you might sink and disable several ships with a single target solution.

[yngvef]

The Manual TDC Tutorial by Yngvef - Last update: March 13 2008


Updated March 13: Crew can estimate speed for you after patch 1.3. See details under "Speed" in the tutorial

Small update (June 21): I've added the part about firing a salvo and using spread angle at the bottom of the tutorial.


WELCOME TO THE TUTORIAL

This tutorial uses the "torpedo school" tutorial mission in the game. Here, I will try to explain everything. You might know some of these things already, but I figured it would be easiest to just take the entire process step by step. Remember, that this isn't the ONLY way to do it. You can determine speed, AOB and range in any order you like, but this is the way I usually do it.



1: Identification

When you find your target:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/00-Mlet.jpg

The first thing you must do is to identify it. Open the recognition manual with the "N" button and select the nation. "Japan" for all naval military vessels, "Merchant" for all merchant vessels. This is clearly a naval vessel, so we select "Japan":

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/01-Identifiser.jpg

Turn the pages until we find the match:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/02-Dobbeltsjekkogsendinfo.jpg

When you have determined the type of ship, click the button i've marked to automatically send the "mast height" to the TDC. Now, the TDC only knows two things: It's a Mogami heavy Cruiser with a mast height of 111.5 feet (will be in meters if you play with metric). When you've clicked it, the little grey arrow will change to the correct mast-height:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/03-Mastehydeoppdatert.jpg

*
EDIT: You can also enter mast height manually by dragging the little grey arrow. This is practical if you know the height of the mast but don't want to flip through the recog.manual, which is quite slow. A neat trick, if you're attacking a convoy for example, is to check out which ships you're planning to attack and remember their mast heights. This way, you only need to alter the little grey arrow, and don't have to identify every ship over again when you're firing.



2: Range

The next thing we must do is to find out how far away it is. Because we know the height of the ship, we can now find the distance with the "Stadimeter":

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/04-VelgStadimeter.jpg
Click the button to get the "double-image" of the stadimeter. Move the mouse down to see the two images exactly on top of each other (the highest mast just touching the waterline on the other image):
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/05-Brukerstadimeter.jpg

When you're satisfied with the image, click the left mouse button again to store it in the rangefinder. REMEMBER: The distance is NOT sent to the TDC yet, so we'll have to do that first:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/06-SendavstandtilTDC.jpg

Click the button to send info to TDC (as the tooltip says). As you do this, both distance and bearing is sent. Bearing is the relative angle of the target as seen from the sub: 0 degrees bearing = straight ahead, 90 degrees = directly starboard (right), 180 degrees = behind, 270 degrees = directly port (left).

Now, the TDC knows the distance of the target and what direction it is in. If the target is stationary, this is all you need and can fire the torpedo right away... This ship, however, is moving, so we need more information in our target solution before firing.



3: Angle Of Bow - AOB

The next step is to determine AOB. AOB or Angle Of Bow is the angle you are looking at the ship from. It's the exact same as bearing, only it's reversed by trying to figure out what bearing your sub is in seen from the target. In other words: an AOB of 0 degrees is a ship coming directly towards you. and AOB of 90 degrees is a ship seen directly from the starboard (right) side and so on. I usually just turn the AOB wheel until it seems correct. This is NOT a very crucial information for the TDC. It should be reasonably correct, but at short distance (which you should always attack anyway), an error of 10-15 degrees is no problem. Determining AOB takes a bit of guessing and a bit of practice, but is quite easy really. Turn the AOB wheel until you're satisfied:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/07-AOB.jpg
Once again, remember to press the button to send the information to the TDC.



4: Speed

Now, the TDC knows distance AND AOB. All we need now is speed.


***** UPDATE: *****
With patch 1.4, the speed determination has changed. You can still do it as described in my speed tutorial, but there is a new and very simple way (too simple in my opinion, so I don't use it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif )

It works like this: You find range and AOB as before and then wait for a while. When you update the range data again, you can go to the speed dial and click the "Estimate target's speed" on the left side of the speed dial. I believe this is a solution to the "where's my crew"-question that many players have. It is indeed strange that the captain of the boat has to do everything himself; all calculations, marking on maps, navigating etc.. Anyway, the longer between the range readings and the more accurate they are, the better the speed estimate is. When the crew comes with an estimate, all you have to do is send the data to the TDC the same way as with speed and AOB and you are ready to fire. (the estimate is automatically "dialed" on the speed dial, so all you have to do is press the "Send data to TDC"-button again. But remember: The crew might get it wrong because your range data is bad, so a healthy dose of common sense is required: If a small slow-moving freighter is estimated to travel at 28 knots... well, then something is wrong and has to be done over.

Because the automatic speed estimate is somewhat too easy and automatic for my taste, I still would like to refer you to my thread about speed determination: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/1091073255

When you've found the speed (I found out roughly 9 knots), turn the speed wheel to the correct value and click the button to send the speed information to the TDC:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/08-Setterfarta.jpg

Also, notice that I've switched on the red light on the position keeper (PK). The PK constantly updates the target information (distance, AOB and bearing) depending on the information YOU have provided for it, and it also takes account for your subs movement. REMEMBER: The PK is only as good as the target solution. Also, the solution on the PK will get worse and worse as time passes as an error in speed, AOB or range will make the difference larger and larger as time passes. It's not a good idea to make a solution, switch on the PK, wait several minutes and THEN attack. You should always update the PK with new information of range, AOB and speed if you find new values that seem more correct.



5: ATTACK

Now that all values are set and the PK is switched on to update the solution, I'm ready to fire:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/09-Skyter.jpg

It's a hit:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/10-Treff.jpg

Mission completed:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/yngvef/11-Shipsunk.jpg



RESULT

A very good solution it would seem as all my 4 torpedoes hit the ship almost perfectly on the middle. I could have fired a spread ofcourse, but I didn't in this example. The Mogami started exploding after just two torpedoes, but it never hurts to make sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Firing salvos

I've just copied this from page 2 of the thread, so it's easier to find:

The game doesn't appear to have a salvo setting like in SH3. To fire a spread of torpedoes, you have to fire, switch tube, change the spread angle and fire again. The angle you choose is an added or subtracted angle to the angle determined by the target solution. At about 800 meters on a tanker seen from the side, I would probably use "4 degrees left", "2 degrees left", "2 degrees right" and "4 degrees right" or something like that if I was to fire 4 torpedoes.

It's faster if you use the keyboard commands when firing: "W" to cycle tube and "Enter" to fire (Unless you're using the "Flavored to taste" mod that for some reason disables this button).

Also remember that once you click the fire button, the gyro angle is locked into the torpedo and you can immediately change the spread angle for the next shot, or even create a new solution if you need to. You don't have to wait for the torpedo to leave the sub and the crew to say "Torpedo in the water". I say this because some people believe they have to wait those several seconds before firing the next, and that can create some problems like the torpedoes arriving with such a great time difference that the target has time to maneuver between the impacts, making you possibly miss with some of the torpedoes.

Finally, when I fire a salvo, I usually fire from left to right if the ship is moving from left to right, and the other way if the ship goes the other way. This is because if the targets speeds up when spotting the torpedoes (as some warships tend to do), the next ones will still hit because they are set to hit further and further forward on the ship, instead of further and further back, that may cause most of the salvo to miss.

Firing salvos can also be a neat trick when attacking convoys. I like to create a solution for one of the ships in the middle of the convoy, and then fire a full bow salvo with evenly spaced torpedoes (from -6 to +6 degrees for instance). This way, if you're a bit lucky, you might sink and disable several ships with a single target solution.

[cantuseniciwant]

this should be stickied, including a spread http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

[Gh3ngis]

Nice one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[yngvef]

Thanks guys, I'm glad you like it. I hope it helps people who want to use manual TDC but don't know how http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Qwyietman]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Definitley helpful. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[Phantom_453]

Your efforts are much appreciated.

[K-Squad]

Thank you. Gonna try it on 100% realism later.

[kbmodigity]

Thanks yngvef for this awsome post. I have been dying to learn how to use the manual TDC but always felt a little overwhelmed when trying to learn from the manual. This took all the guess work out. And on my first patrol with trying it with your instructions, I sunk 7 merchants using your directions. (not bad I think for a first attempt.) I now find the game much more exciting with more than basically point and shoot gameplay. Hats off to ya. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

[VikingGrandad]

@yngvef - excellent stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

I've added a link to this thread from the 'SH4 - Tools, tips, mods & online teams' sticky.

[Rafter11]

Hey yngvef,

Great Post. I think I am doing all your steps. However If I bring the bottom of the ship down to the very top of the mast with the stadimeter, I almost always under estimate the range by about 30%. To get the correct range, I have to bring the hull down the mast part way. By using the attack plot I am able to see the X and know where the TDC thinks the target is in relation to reality.

Are you having the same problem, or is it just me?

Rafter11

[stelr]

Recommend this become a sticky.

v/r
Stel

[VikingGrandad]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stelr:
Recommend this become a sticky. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I said above, a link to this thread has been added to the 'SH4 - Tools, tips, mods & online teams' sticky, along with a link to yngvef's 'Speed determination made easy' thread.

stelr - please check the PM I have sent you about your signature size

[yngvef]

Thank you for all your praise, everyone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rafter11:
Hey yngvef,

Great Post. I think I am doing all your steps. However If I bring the bottom of the ship down to the very top of the mast with the stadimeter, I almost always under estimate the range by about 30%. To get the correct range, I have to bring the hull down the mast part way. By using the attack plot I am able to see the X and know where the TDC thinks the target is in relation to reality.

Are you having the same problem, or is it just me?

Rafter11 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can not say that I have experienced the problem you are describing exactly. However, I have a couple of times mis-identified the ship, the Split freighters are very similar, and choosing the wrong size will get a very wrong range reading. Also, there may be some issues in the game where the wrong mastheight is programmed into the game. If you find out specifically what kind of ships you get the error on, please post it in this thread and I'll investigate too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[yngvef]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VikingGrandad:
@yngvef - excellent stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

I've added a link to this thread from the 'SH4 - Tools, tips, mods & online teams' sticky. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

[kbmodigity]

Quick question about using the stadimeter. I just started doing manual TDC since I read this post, and I am wondering since it does not specify:

I know the waterline of the double image should touch the highest mast of the ship, but does the horitontal line of the crosshair in your periscope have to be lined up with the waterline of the actual image when using the double image. I am finding that my ranges are always off, and I noticed in the picture in the post for that procedure that yngvef's is lined up like that.

It was never realy specified in the original post, and I am still learning how to do this properly. ANyways, thanks in advance for any help.

[yngvef]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kbmodigity:
Quick question about using the stadimeter. I just started doing manual TDC since I read this post, and I am wondering since it does not specify:

I know the waterline of the double image should touch the highest mast of the ship, but does the horitontal line of the crosshair in your periscope have to be lined up with the waterline of the actual image when using the double image. I am finding that my ranges are always off, and I noticed in the picture in the post for that procedure that yngvef's is lined up like that.

It was never realy specified in the original post, and I am still learning how to do this properly. ANyways, thanks in advance for any help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You don't have to align the crosshair with the waterline for the stadimeter to work. If you are running with "No stabilize view" in bad weather, it is impossible to keep the waterline in the middle of the sight anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You are the second person reporting difficulties with the stadimeter distance being off, so I'm starting to wonder why that happens... Are you noticing the error when you fire your torpeodes and they miss, or are you doublechecking your plot with the navmap/attackmap?. I play at 100% realism and never doublecheck with the map and keep hitting almost all my targets at distances up to 1500 meters. It could be that the attackmap/navmap is off, or it could be specific errors with certain ship classes that are reported with the wrong mast height.

Also, there might still be some problems with the "imperial units" setting as this wasn't implemented properly in the original release. The reason my example is in imperial is because I know most users on this forum are americans. Normally, I play with metric and don't experience any problems with it.

Are you playing at imperial?

Have you noticed the problem to be bigger on certain ship classes?

I hope we can figure this out. If anyone else have similar experiences with the stadimeter and possible solutions, please report them here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

yngvef

[kbmodigity]

Right now I am playing on imperial.

The way I think I am wrong is by looking at the attack map. Acording to the location set by the PK, it says I am off range wise from the actual location of the ship. I have set and reset the TDC over and over to ensure that my calcualtions were correct.

As far as what type of ships, it seems to do it with all of them.

I have to say though, it is never off by more than a couple hundred feet (rough guess) though, even though I know when I've calcualted 5 or more times to ensure I'm right, it still says I'm off. But with the relatively low amount of error, it doesn't seem to be affecting me too much by hitting a target as I like to get in close anyways.

It seems too as you said that this problem seems to be popping up in alot of posts lately.

I think I might try switching to metric and see if that helps any. If I find anything, I'll post back. Thanks again for the awsome leason.

[yngvef]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kbmodigity:
Right now I am playing on imperial.

The way I think I am wrong is by looking at the attack map. Acording to the location set by the PK, it says I am off range wise from the actual location of the ship. I have set and reset the TDC over and over to ensure that my calcualtions were correct.

As far as what type of ships, it seems to do it with all of them.

I have to say though, it is never off by more than a couple hundred feet (rough guess) though, even though I know when I've calcualted 5 or more times to ensure I'm right, it still says I'm off. But with the relatively low amount of error, it doesn't seem to be affecting me too much by hitting a target as I like to get in close anyways.

It seems too as you said that this problem seems to be popping up in alot of posts lately.

I think I might try switching to metric and see if that helps any. If I find anything, I'll post back. Thanks again for the awsome leason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, that might be it.

There is also a fix on subsim for distances or something. I haven't tried it myself (so I'm not 100% sure what it does), because I have no trouble hitting my targets, but it might fix problems related to playing with imperial units.

Good luck, captain http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[kbmodigity]

Just to let people know, I have tried switching to Metric units, and now everything targets perfectly. It deffinetly seems to be a problem with the imperial not matching up to the mast heights or something.

Also, I have looked through the mods, and the only one I did seem to find only adjusted some of the ships dimensions in metric, it specifically said not to download if you used imperial. Anyways, Just wanted to get back with what I found, If anyone has heard of a mod or anything to fix this, I'd appreciate it.

[petergdakin1971]

I would just like to add my thanks for this tutorial, as I was really struggling to understand how to get the "Manual targeting thing" to work.

Just looking forward to receiving my replacement graphics card (Nvidia 7900GS), so I can continue my adventures on the high seas! (yep, the other one blew!) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

[UltrA1111]

Yngvef thx for helping us newbs out there it works as does your speed finder (when STOPPED! end to end ship /length x2 works perfectly btw) but one thing i have noticed and maybe you could repost about this is that you CAN actually set the mast hight yourself (damm didnt know you could move that around yourself...nothing in the manual oh well..thx for forum guys lol)
Anyhow now i move the mast height dial around myself to the recog man i have and ALL my torps hit perfectly!!!
Is it me but the recog man in game i have the written one that came with the game special ed or something? makes the mast height the INCORRECT height which even with your excellent help made torps very hit and miss using the manual way of my written manual/height setting that and then using the stadimeter (i without escorts around check the sonar range and its perfect!) then use your STOPPED speed measuring method set that and then lauch torps and BOOOOM every ship i hit perfectly!!!

A big thank you for YNGVEF and other forum helpers without you guys/girls i would have thrown/gave this game away like i did with SH3.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[yngvef]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UltrA1111:
Yngvef thx for helping us newbs out there it works as does your speed finder (when STOPPED! end to end ship /length x2 works perfectly btw) but one thing i have noticed and maybe you could repost about this is that you CAN actually set the mast hight yourself (damm didnt know you could move that around yourself...nothing in the manual oh well..thx for forum guys lol)
Anyhow now i move the mast height dial around myself to the recog man i have and ALL my torps hit perfectly!!!
Is it me but the recog man in game i have the written one that came with the game special ed or something? makes the mast height the INCORRECT height which even with your excellent help made torps very hit and miss using the manual way of my written manual/height setting that and then using the stadimeter (i without escorts around check the sonar range and its perfect!) then use your STOPPED speed measuring method set that and then lauch torps and BOOOOM every ship i hit perfectly!!!

A big thank you for YNGVEF and other forum helpers without you guys/girls i would have thrown/gave this game away like i did with SH3.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can ofcourse alter the mast-height in the rangefinder yourself. I simply forgot to mention this in the tutorial. I've added it now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regarding the mast heights, some are wrong in the in-game recognition manual (I've discovered after some investigating).

However, the "JP Ship Dimension Fix 1.0" on subsim.com seems to correct the errors. For instance, the in-game recognition manual states that the mast height for the Taiyo class carrier is only 16 meters or something, while it's really about 44 meters... If you identify with this and click the button, the mast height will be waaay too low, and the rangefinder will think the ship is much closer than it is.

I recommend using the mod until UBI fixes it in the next patch. It's easy to install, and easy to uninstall... if you remember to make a backup of the folder it changes that is.

I'm glad to hear that you found this helpful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Stokes1928]

Many thanks very helpful, one thing though is ow can I select the torpedo Salvo setting, easy in SH3, but here?. Having just perused all the comments in these forums it is very obvious that Ubisoft has clearly not considered the fact that a comprenhensive instruction manual is necessary to allow anyone to enjoy this game with any satisfaction. It is not too late I would be prepared to purchase this if it were to be supplied. Cheers, good hunting!

[yngvef]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stokes1928:
Many thanks very helpful, one thing though is ow can I select the torpedo Salvo setting, easy in SH3, but here?. Having just perused all the comments in these forums it is very obvious that Ubisoft has clearly not considered the fact that a comprenhensive instruction manual is necessary to allow anyone to enjoy this game with any satisfaction. It is not too late I would be prepared to purchase this if it were to be supplied. Cheers, good hunting! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The game doesn't appear to have a salvo setting like in SH3. To fire a spread of torpedoes, you have to fire, switch tube, change the spread angle and fire again. The angle you choose is an added or subtracted angle to the angle determined by the target solution. At about 800 meters on a tanker seen from the side, I would probably use "4 degrees left", "2 degrees left", "2 degrees right" and "4 degrees right" or something like that if I was to fire 4 torpedoes.

It's faster if you use the keyboard commands when firing: "W" to cycle tube and "Enter" to fire (Unless you're using the "Flavored to taste" mod that for some reason disables this button).

Also remember that once you click the fire button, the gyro angle is locked into the torpedo and you can immediately change the spread angle for the next shot, or even create a new solution if you need to. You don't have to wait for the torpedo to leave the sub and the crew to say "Torpedo in the water". I say this because some people believe they have to wait those several seconds before firing the next, and that can create some problems like the torpedoes arriving with such a great time difference that the target has time to maneuver (spelling?) between the impacts, making you possibly miss with some of the torpedoes.

Finally, when I fire a salvo, I usually fire from left to right if the ship is moving from left to right, and the other way if the ship goes the other way. This is because if the targets speeds up when spotting the torpedoes (as some warships tend to do), the next ones will still hit because they are set to hit further and further forward on the ship. If they went to all flank when they saw the first torpedo and it was aimed at their bow, you will often miss with the last or even the two last torpedoes.

[MudMarine3]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">yngvef </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ya made a great tutorial. I made a printable msword wps v8.5 printable document of your tutorial with your screen shots. Those were great. If you want a copy so you could post if for down load just e-mail me.

I am new to this sim and any help is apricated.

I am right now using Real Fleet Boat Mod v127
found at the subsims forum. I highly advise it

I would also like to invite you to join Subsowespac and SubRon7

I have seen posts complaining about the stadimeter if it is buged or not. I believe the Devs got that right.

Here is my post on the subject and whyI say they got this right.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=64210...541099265#6541099265 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=6421019045&m=2101084545&r=6541099265#6541099265)

That manual stated there is a very interesting read. A must for any Boat sim ethusist.

[MudMarine3]

If you want me to upload the tutorial with your permission, I will, atempt to do so.

[VF-17_BOOM]

I FINALY GET IT!!!!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gifThankYou yngvef!!!!UBI should hire you for SHV!!!!!

[yngvef]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MudMarine3:
If you want me to upload the tutorial with your permission, I will, atempt to do so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been away from these forums for quite some time, but if anyone wants to upload the tutorial to other pages or something, feel free http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[yngvef]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF-17_BOOM:
I FINALY GET IT!!!!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gifThankYou yngvef!!!!UBI should hire you for SHV!!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you for your kind words http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Phantom_Flyer]

Thanks very much for these guides guys, I sank my first ship with manual mode this afternoon at 4000 yards, using this guide and the speed estimation guide / ship length guide, was excellent, need some practice getting the correct angle on the bow as my torps where not exactly where I aimed them on the ship, but none the less, a hit is a hit, and a manual sollution was very satisfying !!

[silentscorp1971]

It might be because its past my bedtime, but I can't get my head around something.

When I make a (assuming perfect)manual solution and fire my first fish will automatically head for the bow of my target, since this is the front most point of my solution, correct?
The periscope doesn't control aim under manual tdc, right?
How do I control or aim at a certain part of the ship using manual tdc?
How do I set up a spread from my first shot? Do I make the spread by simply delaying my next torpedo? Ie. #1 heads for bow, wait 2 second fire #2, etc. Only problem is, this won't work using the fire from back to front method described.

I am so confused. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

[silentscorp1971]

I woke up fresh and got my head wrapped around it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I played around in the torpedo practice area till we ran out of old heavy cruisers.

Things I learned that may help others:
(these are common knowledge to vets but confusing to newbs)

(1)Your periscope does determine your aim point when figuring out a firing solution. The solution will calculate to attempt to put the torpedo into the imaginary space where the crosshair was when the distance/bearing information was sent to the TDC at the place and time indicated by the information being processed by the TDC.

In laymans terms.. if you make your solution with the periscope locked onto the ship and input a perfect solution, your torpedo will strike amidship.
The only problem with this is, its very hard to input a perfect solution. You can compensate with spreads or by holding your crosshair more fore or aft when sending distance/bearing to the TDC depending on which way you desire to er if er you do.

This is also how you can carefully aim a torpedo at a point on a stationary target.

(2) The information in the torpedo control screen (depth/spread/speed) is set into the torpedo as it is launched. You can change this data as soon as you launch a fish. It is also unaffected by whether PK (possition keeper) is on or off, since it is loaded at launch. Meaning, you can set up your solution, turn on PK, set up torpedo #1 and launch it, set up torpedo #2 with a spread angle and launch it, etc. You only have to unclick PK if you need to target a new contact.

(3)There is no need to turn on PK until you send distance/bearing information, so compute it last for a more accurate ready to fire solution.

(4)Once you activate PK you can keep sending new updated information as you obtain it without having to unclick the PK.

[1.JaVA_Hornet]

TDC calculation can much simpler and accurate.

The above named method is for close shooting.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119805

[NIMITZ1967]

Viking.can somebody give me some advice PLEASE?...how many post messages do i have to leav before getting a reply?...i would not ask if i didnt actually need your advice, and half the time when i do requst help, nobody ever answers,, or it takes ddays and i lose track of the threa.ive mae noises about this before...i know im only a new user onsite...but hey..if i really NEED the help.......Can someone reply to this please?

[potpie69]

This is a very nice little tutorial, will really come in handy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[nightshade.sc]

Fantastic info, but now that 1.4's out, a revision including the use of the speed calculator, aswell as a possible map charted AOB using the compass would be nice also, thanks!

[Zergos1985]

yngvef, great thread dude, thank you

[drjaws]

wonderful help

[Medic375th]

Thx for the info. I don't feel so overwhelmed about trying manual targeting. Now if you (or someome) could do a similar post about the using the attack map I think it would help us newbies

[yngvef]

Thanks for all positive comments http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Medic375th: It's nice to hear you are less overwhelmed. You are asking about a tutorial for the attack map. I'll look into it... no promises though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif. Right now, my main concern has been to update this tutorial that was written quite some time ago.

[funkster319]

Another point which was touched on here.....

If you want to hit a certain part of the ship .... Just before you fire send a bearing through! Once I have a range / bearing solution all set I just start firing off a salvo moving the crosshairs to where I want and pressing the "Send Bearing to TDC button" without using the stad again.

So .....

1. set solution as above
2. have all torps set up and tubes open.
3. Enter final range and bearing
4. Fire 1
5. Place cross hairs over next desired hit spot
6. Enter Bearing by pressing button (without redoing stad).
7. Fire 2


Repeat 5-7 for remaing shots etc Also Note I don't use auto lock!UNrealistic IMO plus You get MUCH more dmg by hitting hotspots on ships...Try under funnel!!.... or ammo storage!

Another point slightly OT , I also set my first 2 torps (In a four fish salvo)to be just below the draft and magnetic, the next 2 fish I set to about a 1/4 of draft and contact!

so on a draft of 24ft (Info in Recog Book BTW) I set my magenetics about 20ft and my contact fish to about 5-8ft...works a treat.

N.b still cant work out why I need to set less than draft for magnetics as realistically I should be setting them a couple of ft+draft so 2+2=26ft but this never works and the fish just sail underneath really close but no bang!!!??????

[TooFastForLove.]

I went through this tutorial and while it helped a little, I'm still way off the mark. My problem seems to be the speed estimation feature. I go through all the other calculations and then the speed is usually WAY off.

In the training mission my first time after this I calculated 7 kts. After firing torpedoes it was immediately obvious that it would miss by a mile. I went through the calculations again and came up with 10kts. This is still wrong but both torpedoes impacted near the rear of the ship and sank it. It seemed to be more luck than anything

Worse still I went out to my campaign mission and targeted a destroyer. Kept going through the calculations and was getting speeds of first 10 kts, then over 40.

I don't get what I'm doing wrong and it's killing me. Manual torpedo targeting in SH3 was easy and makes learning this in SH4 that much more frustrating.

One point I have considered. Is it necessary to lock the target while doing this? If so how do you do that? By lock I mean so the crosshairs follow the target automatically like in SH3. I locked it once by accident somehow, I guess I'll have to look through the keyboard commands. Heaving forbid if this sim came with instructions or something.

[Yooperbacker]

Hello,
I know nothing about manual targeting but when I am at periscope view and want to lock on to a ship I press the "L" key. To un-lock hit the "L" key again.

[Vlaba]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TooFastForLove.:
I went through this tutorial and while it helped a little, I'm still way off the mark. My problem seems to be the speed estimation feature. I go through all the other calculations and then the speed is usually WAY off.

In the training mission my first time after this I calculated 7 kts. After firing torpedoes it was immediately obvious that it would miss by a mile. I went through the calculations again and came up with 10kts. This is still wrong but both torpedoes impacted near the rear of the ship and sank it. It seemed to be more luck than anything

Worse still I went out to my campaign mission and targeted a destroyer. Kept going through the calculations and was getting speeds of first 10 kts, then over 40.

I don't get what I'm doing wrong and it's killing me. Manual torpedo targeting in SH3 was easy and makes learning this in SH4 that much more frustrating.

One point I have considered. Is it necessary to lock the target while doing this? If so how do you do that? By lock I mean so the crosshairs follow the target automatically like in SH3. I locked it once by accident somehow, I guess I'll have to look through the keyboard commands. Heaving forbid if this sim came with instructions or something. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't used SHIV w/o TMO for a while so I don't remember, but on the nav map there are three vertical lines on the right side labeled for time, distance and knots. Time your target for 3-5 minutes with the stopwatch, use the ruler tool to measure the distance the target has traveled, then using the ruler, draw a line starting at the time, crossing the distance and it will line up on the speed. I've compared this to auto targeting speed and it is always right. Can't show a picture now but that's the idea.

Vlaba

[perkinshershel]

Great post, but I still having difficulties. Do not have a stadimeter indicator on the left side of Stadimeter. So cannot get Double image to determine distance.-

Version 1.4 Submarine School Torpedo Attack

[TooFastForLove.]

I don't know, I am still not getting this. Now I've supposedly followed the steps all the while locking the target, and this is what I've found. In the training I've found the ships speed to be 9kts and my torpedoes hit dead center.

In a campaign I lined up to attack a destroyer. I'm confident I have identified it correctly. My first check while locked it calculated the destroyer speed at 19kts. I thought that sounded reasonable and fired. Fired only to find my torpedo missed WAY to the rear by probably 2-3 ship lengths. Calculated again at 23 kts for about the same result. I mean I can understand if I miss by a bit I just need to improve. But 2-3 lengths behind the ship is not even in the ball park. It almost seems to me like it was fired as if the ship was standing still. I entered speed into TDC.

I just don't get it. Far as I can tell I have followed the guide exactly. Manual TDC in SH3 was a walk in the park compared to this. Maybe there is some point left out of the manual that is assumed people would take for granted.

Edit: one more point, I do open my tubes before I fire. Not that it would make for such the wild difference I'm getting.


EDIT-2: Is it possible that Angle On Bow means something completely different in this game than what it did in SH3?

[TrooperJim]

Hi, Excellent Tutorial, it's been a great help to me. may i ask, after locking my Target and switching to Attack Map, it doesn't seem to highlight the Targeted Ship, anyone possibly advise me on how to easily identify the Targeted Ship on the Attack Map?
Thanks in Advance

[Mehring1917]

Wow! Thanks, this is a lifesaver for a newb. Been looking for a tutorial like this for ages. Is there a guide for the same process in German subs too?

[alieneddiexxx]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mehring1917:
Wow! Thanks, this is a lifesaver for a newb. Been looking for a tutorial like this for ages. Is there a guide for the same process in German subs too? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try the SH3 forum for U-boots, you'll probably find it there.

[Mfurneaux]

Hi Yngvef,

MY COMPUTER: Core 2 duo with GTX8000 card/2 megs ram/500mg hard disc. SH4 version 1.4/using full realism on all but external camera

Didn't want to lumber u alone with my query which I expect u get plenty of but cannot see how to insert a GENERAL query to everyone [am signed up with SH$ forum ok]But if u can supply any tips I'd be so grateful. And yes u've guessed my query - I have not "gone on patrol" yet as I can't consistently sink the Mogami battle cruiser in the sub school. Bit of a show stopper really for a successful submariner! I have gone thro your excellent tutorial and watched three others in u-tube many times and cannot think what I am doing wrong but it must be something as out of 40 odd go's with the 'sink the Mogami' tutorial I have only managed to sink it twice!! The only other thing I can think is that I have a fault or bug in my version of the game but all seems to work well so think this v unlikely. To I fear bore u further can I briefly go tho my usual pattern for this tutorial:

go to periscope depth/up periscope/lock Mogami in crosshairs/zoom in
Get up recognition manual/find Mogami/tick red arrow [to send info to stadimeter]
Click on height measuring icon in stadimeter/draw down the double image top of one ship to waterline of other/click on red stadimeter button to send in the height info
Draw out bearing and ship recog panel left hand side/set torps to fast/depth to 10/click on the PK
Back to stadimeter/click on angle on bow icon/estmate angle on bow [usually have the enemy ship facing starboard side directly at me or have tried pointing ship downwards a little]/click red stadimeter button/repeat the range & angle on bow readings x 2
By this time when click on stadimeter 'enemy speed 'icon' I have a reading/click red button to add to stadimeter/repeat this x 2

FIRE - and usually miss!!

am I missing somthing obvious??

One other point - in one of the tutorials the tutor goes to the navigation map to estimate the angle on bow because in his version of the game BOTH enemy ship [in red] and the sub appear - but in my version I cannot find any red enemy ship only my own?? If I go to the attack map my sub appears again, and there is a cross representing the enemy ship + I can see my torpedoes leaving the sub when I fire. But cannot see how to zoom this map and there are no 'targeting'map tools to use.

any tips much appreciated & ta again for excellent tutorial [even tho I haven't been able yto take advantage of it yet!

Malcolm Furneaux

[yngvef]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mfurneaux:

(...) my usual pattern for this tutorial:

go to periscope depth/up periscope/lock Mogami in crosshairs/zoom in
Get up recognition manual/find Mogami/tick red arrow [to send info to stadimeter]
Click on height measuring icon in stadimeter/draw down the double image top of one ship to waterline of other/click on red stadimeter button to send in the height info
Draw out bearing and ship recog panel left hand side/set torps to fast/depth to 10/click on the PK
Back to stadimeter/click on angle on bow icon/estmate angle on bow [usually have the enemy ship facing starboard side directly at me or have tried pointing ship downwards a little]/click red stadimeter button/repeat the range & angle on bow readings x 2
By this time when click on stadimeter 'enemy speed 'icon' I have a reading/click red button to add to stadimeter/repeat this x 2

FIRE - and usually miss!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I'll try to answer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

First of all, the PK (Position Keeper) should only be turned on when you have a reading of ALL the parameters (Range&Bearing, Angle of Bow, Speed). If you turn it on before all data has been entered, the solution updated in the PK will become very wrong very rapidly. If you update all the parameters after you switched the PK on, there's no problem, but it's very easy to forget AOB or Range... And then you're in trouble http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also, the automatic speed finder does sometimes seem to have problems finding the right speed (which is why I use another method of finding speed, which is described in the link under "Speed" in the tutorial). The speed finder requires correct Range&Bearing-readings with quite some time between to be really reliable it seems. You might want to try other methods of finding speed, just to see if that's the problem.

(As a sidenote: Most bad solutions are bad because of a wrong speed estimate. Range and AOB is usually not the main problem. Range is easily measured and AOB can be very easy to get right if you wait until you see the target directly from starboard or port (90 degrees). If the speed estimate, however, is off by as little as a two knots from a distance of 1000 yards and fired at a 90 degree AOB, you will miss the entire target if the ship is shorter than 500feet (150 meters). In other words. Getting the correct speed is the main problem with firing torpedoes)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mfurneaux:
One other point - in one of the tutorials the tutor goes to the navigation map to estimate the angle on bow because in his version of the game BOTH enemy ship [in red] and the sub appear - but in my version I cannot find any red enemy ship only my own?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The realism setting "Map contact updates" will change this. Also, there are several mods that alter how this is displayed on the map. As an example, I believe the "Trigger Maru"-mod changes all contacts to black "blobs" instead of red ships on the navmap.

If "map contact updates" is switched on, you still have to "see" the target (have the periscope raised or be on the surface) for the crew to update it on the map automatically.

When practising manual TDC, it can be a good idea to not run on 100% realism. It can be quite helpful to at least run with map contact updates and external camera to see what's actually happening when you shoot. To see if you miss... Why you miss.. and so on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If anything is unclear with my answer, or if you didn't get the answer you were looking for, please say so, and I will attempt to help you further. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good luck.

[Mehring1917]

Great post. I was loking for some clarifications on entering bearings to the TDC and you say it is entered automatically with range- excellent! But why is there a seperate button on the Sonar screen, "send bearing to TDC"? does it serve any real purpose, or is it just to confuse us newbs?

[silentscorp1971]

Mehring, that button is for sending sonar results to the tdc.
Watch Werner's video under the 100k sticky section where he uses only the sonar to sink a ship he never even lays eyes on.. amazing stuff.

You only use that button when using the sonar to input data tot he tdc.

[BigCat75]

Thanks for this tutorial!!

[Baxder]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally by Funkster 319:
5. Place cross hairs over next desired hit spot </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't tried this, but wouldn't it also work to use the spread angle adjustment set to the difference in bearing to your desired impact point?

I agree that the lock feature is entirely unrealistic, but mostly necessary for the game, and for those of us that use it, I think this would work. Say your locked target is at bearing 045, moving right to left, and it's forward turret is at bearing 041. Could you dial in a 4 degree left angle adjustment and have it strike the forward mag? Even in auto-targeting this should work, regardless of speed, range, etc. I'll give it a shot and get back, someone else could feel free to beat me to it though.

[RockinRobbins]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by yngvef:
First of all, the PK (Position Keeper) should only be turned on when you have a reading of ALL the parameters (Range&Bearing, Angle of Bow, Speed). If you turn it on before all data has been entered, the solution updated in the PK will become very wrong very rapidly. If you update all the parameters after you switched the PK on, there's no problem, but it's very easy to forget AOB or Range... And then you're in trouble http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For maximum accuracy, the first thing you should do is turn on the PK. At this point there is bogus info in all four parameters the TDC needs for a valid solution: target speed, target course or angle on the bow, target bearing and target range.

Accuracy depends on one item that is not documented in any tutorial or post here at Ubi forums. The order you input parameters is vitally important! I'll explain the correct order and then I'll demonstrate why it is important and correct.

When you use the stadimeter and press the send button, you are really sending two parameters to the TDC, range and bearing. So we'll treat them as one input.

If you turn the PK on, select a forward torpedo tube and check out the attack map, you'll see an "x" with a line in front of it. That x is the projected impact point of a torpedo that you'll shoot. The x starts out at the range and bearing sent. It is moving at the course you set when you entered the angle on the bow, and at the speed you entered. If you shoot a torpedo, it's headed for where that x is. Your task is to ensure there's a target under the x. Got it?

Sorry this thing is long, but a couple of lines would leave you more confused than you are, and somebody would jump on with "you got it all wrong!" so I'm going to lay it out step by step and provide the proof at the same time.

Why do I say turn the PK on first? Well, if you enter the speed, AoB/course and range/bearing without turning the PK on, switch to the attack screen! There's the x sitting out there stationary and the target is steaming away from it! If you shoot, you hit the x but Elvis has left the building! If you turn on the PK after the parameters are input, the x moves with the course and speed of the target, but in the time between entering the parameters and when you started the PK, the target has steamed away from your stationary target x. So it is just following your target. When you fire, you are going to miss astern, aren't you?

Let's do it right one time. <span class="ev_code_RED">Remember that before all this nonsense commences, you MUST use the identification manual and correctly identify your target by clicking on the check mark. Otherwise stadimeter measurements are tragically wrong.</span> The correct order of operations is

1"”turn on the PK.

2"”determine target speed and input into TDC.

3"”determine target course and enter the AoB. You can use the numbers on the outside of the AoB dial and point the bow of the target indicator at the target's course instead of setting AoB directly.

4"”take your stadimeter reading and press the range/bearing send button.

You're done! As long as the target does not change course or speed you will hit the target. I never use the speed estimate from the crew, it's dependent on your stadimeter readings, so is almost always unreliable. Use your radar and measure distance traveled in three minutes. The number of hundred yards traveled is the speed. 750 yards equals 7.5 knots.

Now the proof section. Let's do a thought experiment, entering the parameters in the wrong order, following the results step by step. We'll assume this is a default setup: originally the TDC is set to speed zero, course zero, bearing zero and range zero. Let's start out by turning on the TDC just for fun.

Wrong #1. Let's use the stadimeter and take a range and bearing. The TDC paints that x right on top of our target. But the x is moving at speed zero on course zero. The target steams away from the x, jeering at it lustily!

Wrong #2. Hmmmm. We measure the speed using the estimate rule for speed reasons, getting a perfectly accurate speed reading. The x, which has already been left behind by the target now starts steaming straight north at the speed you just entered. But the target isn't going north! Things are not getting any better here.

Wrong #3. We finally determine the target course and either directly put that into the TDC or figure out the AoB and enter that. Now the x, which is at some distance from the target because the last two entries have separated them is finally shadowing the real target at some considerable distance.

And no matter when you turn on the PK during that procedure, you're going to miss the target.

Only two things are vitally important: the LAST parameter entered MUST be range/bearing, and the PK MUST be turned on before range/bearing is input. Other than that it's season to taste. It is not important whether turning on the PK is step one or step three. Setting speed and AoB/course can be done in any order.

I realize that my explanation is complicated and relies on your ability to visualize if you are to understand how absolutely correct it is. My wife, for instance, can't visualize and says I'm full of it.http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/kicking.gif

I've thought for awhile that a video of attack map/TDC follies would be the best way to drive the point home, but then I think, "What if nobody particularly cares" and the job doesn't get done.

Really, all this nonsense could be useful only for the purpose of getting you to give up and check out the much easier http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/OKaneGray.jpg O'Kane Targeting method (http://files.filefront.com/****+OKane+targeting+video7z/;10643361;/fileinfo.html) . Then you can throw your identification manual and stadimeter overboard and you don't have to measure angle on the bow because you MAKE the AoB you want! Not only that but you individually aim each torpedo for the spot on the target you want to hit so you can distribute hits along the length of the target.

OK, I've wasted enough electrons for now!

[KaelNL]

LOL.

I was reading this forum looking for answers. Been reading more than playing. Found out how to manually target the torps. Great! - I thought. Tried it in Sub School - torp class. Did everything by the book. Only to see my first torp miss the stern by a meter, rest more off. (Fired right to left - will correct that too.) Every new try was more off than my first play.
Today @work (I mean: break) I found this thread. And waddaya know: both the first and last post mention YOU HAVE TO TURN THE PK ON!! by clicking on light thingy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Looking forward to tonight. New try on manual targetting!

Thanks guys, you're great! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
-M-

[tambor198]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KaelNL:
LOL.

I was reading this forum looking for answers. Been reading more than playing. Found out how to manually target the torps. Great! - I thought. Tried it in Sub School - torp class. Did everything by the book. Only to see my first torp miss the stern by a meter, rest more off. (Fired right to left - will correct that too.) Every new try was more off than my first play.
Today @work (I mean: break) I found this thread. And waddaya know: both the first and last post mention YOU HAVE TO TURN THE PK ON!! by clicking on light thingy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Looking forward to tonight. New try on manual targetting!

Thanks guys, you're great! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
-M- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


One other thing to mention which you might be doing already is don't forget to open the tube doors before firing. Just a thought.

[kikanjuu]

Many thanks for this illustrative and intuitive tutorial.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Finally, when I fire a salvo, I usually fire from left to right if the ship is moving from left to right, and the other way if the ship goes the other way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is the corresponding order in tube numbered 1-4, to "fire from left to right"?

[Chubster1302]

Excellent....just sat down to work through this tutorial only to find I only have some of the buttons shown in the pics of the TDC

All I have is the bottom 3....have I missed something really stupid or is my copy screwed somehow??

Cheers

Chub

[Chubster1302]

Damn.....Its always the stupid human isnt it.....note to self. make sure "manual targeting" is selected in options.

I will get my coat

[nohunt1]

You have to go into the game options from the main menu and click on manual targeting. Otherwise you will have an "incomplete" TDC.

[MWolfe1963]

In career mode don't forget to set your options using the radio on the left of the desk in the office.

[OLtos]

I have found a way to get the crew assisted course and speed estimation to work. Once again the manual has left us hanging.

For the automatic course and speed estimation to work the TDC needs a time factor to be present. The manual says that happens when you click on things on the TDC, but it does not. To get the time factor working, call up the stop watch and click the stem of the watch. Once you can hear the stop watch ticking multiple range and bearing sightings, (approx 7 - 10 seconds apart will do ), will give you a nicely accurate course and speed.

BUT double check the PK! While the speed will be entered when you click the red button the course of your target will not! The Speed updates but the A0B does not. You can use the AoB dial to set the course of your target (as indicated on the PK) to match the course given by the automatic course and speed indicator.

All of this goes out the window if your target turns! Also the stop watch must be reset to zero for each target you are going to shoot. Trying to track multiple targets just confuses the heck out of the TDC.

[RockinRobbins]

I hate to bring it up again, but following only the instructions shown in the first post will result in a lot more misses than hits. The steps are in the wrong order and this is very important. See my previous post on the correct way to do manual targeting and you'll see your hit percentage double or better.

[CanadianSailor]

I've been trying the manual TDC and for the most part the info on the attack map have been good except for one aspect. The white marker is always a boat length or two behind the target. The course and bearings are all good but it's like it is aiming at a ship that is directly behind. Is there a variation that crops up to account for this or am I missing something.

[nohunt1]

See Rockin' Robbins post on page 3...It clearly explains why this happens....
My advice (and his...) - do O'Kane targeting. Much easier, and you don't need no stinkin' stadimeter....

[CanadianSailor]

So I did the calculation in the order on page 3. Still trailing by about a 1/4 length. I adjusted the spread angle buy 2 degrees and got one hit out of 4 torpedoes at a range of 4500 yards. Does this sound like a normal adjustment to make?

[LouLewis1967]

CanadianSailor, haven't followed all your questions, but regarding 2 degrees, I found that revisiting my geometry classes and sines helped me in this game. The sine of 2 is .035. At 4500 yards 2 degrees is about 475 feet. That's a wide spread, and of course if depends on the angle the target is presenting to you. There's a good formula found in this link for deciding on spread tactics:

http://hnsa.org/doc/attack/

scroll down to page 6-8, but I would encourage you to read the whole document. It really helped me in formulating my intercepts and attacks.