Africa: Is Bush after the oil again?!! [Archive]

XyZspineZyX

07-07-2003, 06:39 PM

America keen to exploit boom in Africa's black gold
From Michael Dynes in Johannesburg

07/07/03: (The Times: UK) ALTHOUGH billed as an attempt to extend the hand of friendship to a neglected continent, President Bush's five nation African safari is widely being seen as an effort to ensure US access to Africa's burgeoning pot of black gold.
Sub-Saharan Africa is enjoying an unprecedented oil exploration and production boom that is expected to transform the region from a modest producer to a key supplier over the next decade.

US attention has focused on the Atlantic waters of the Gulf of Guinea states - Nigeria, Equatorial Guinea, Chad, Cameroon, Gabon, the Republic of Congo, Angola and São TomÃ©.

As head of a task force on future oil supplies, **** Cheney, the US Vice-President, predicted two years ago that the region would become the fastest-growing source of energy for America. But the scale of the region's untapped resources has taken everyone by surprise.

The US already imports about 15 per cent of its annual oil requirements from the Gulf of Guinea. This is expected to exceed 25 per cent by 2015, significantly reducing America's dependence on the volatile Middle East.

US imports from Angola alone rose to $3.2 billion (â£1.9 billion) in 2002, up from $2.3 billion in 1998. Angola produces 900,000 barrels of oil a day and is expected to exceed 1.6 million barrels a day at its peak. Some analysts predict that the Gulf of Guinea states are likely to earn about $200 billion while the boom lasts.

Foreign oil companies are pouring billions of dollars into new exploration and production projects, which will see oil extraction double. More than $50 billion has been earmarked for new development schemes, making it the single largest investment in the continent's history. But there is mounting concern that America's scramble for Africa's resources will lead to an increase in the corruption and mismanagement that has afflicted the continent.

Catholic Relief Services (CRS), a Baltimore think-tank, has issed a blunt warning that the Bush Administration's new-found interest in Africa is far from charitable.

In its report, Bottom of the Barrel, CRS said that petro- dollars had not helped developing countries in the past.

"Angola used them to fight a three-decade-long civil war, and in Nigeria they supported one military dictator after another," Ian Gary, the report's author, said.

CRS has been campaigning for greater transparency in the international oil industry in an effort to stamp out corruption and ensure that oil revenues are used to improve the lives of impoverished Africans, the bulk of whom live on less than $1 a day.

During his visit, Mr Bush is expected to emphasise American support for good governance and respect for human rights. But CRS doubts that such values will be allowed to get in the way of US strategic issues.

"The US has identified increasing African oil imports as an issue of national security and has used diplomacy to court African producers regardless of their record on transparency, democracy, or human rights," Mr Gary said

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

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XyZspineZyX

07-07-2003, 06:39 PM

XyZspineZyX

07-07-2003, 08:54 PM

*Farts on thread*

<table style="filter:glow[color=green, strength=5)"><FONT SIZE=6 FACE=VERDANA COLOR=YELLOW>Turtle</font></table>
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots"

XyZspineZyX

07-07-2003, 09:05 PM

Bush is after my caramel nuggets....

<hr width="50%" align="left">c.787
Murphy's Law: If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. Corollary: If there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then.
c.787@charter.net

XyZspineZyX

07-07-2003, 09:22 PM

MNG: The first thing you must realize about Bush he is a monkey.

There

I hope you understand now not to ridicule Bush because monkies dont know any better.

A bag of nuclear grade cashews could do a better job at preiding over this country than a monkey.

It's not the monkey's fault.

Monkies are dumb.

Monkey! What is it good for!

http://blu3.free.fr/temp/anime/hollow.kill.lol.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=blue, strength=5)">''Falc owns.''-Aesop,6th Century B.C. </table>

XyZspineZyX

07-08-2003, 03:05 AM

Ah, and yes, I skipped reading this one too. I just want to point one thing out.

It seems no one ever wants to "debate" from their own knowledge anymore. Everyone relies on articles, or something written by some journalist somewhere to "prove" their point. People on both sides of the fence is doing this. Of course, they do this presuming that the person writing the argument has no agenda of their own, but the fact is, there will ALWAYS be an article out there somewhere, written by someone, sometimes credible, that will argue for EVERY side of the argument, so they can't ALL be right, so this is just senseless.

This isn't debating, this is just the battle of who can find the most articles. Yipity doo dah, have fun all.

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
â â Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX

07-08-2003, 01:28 PM

CaikFalkon wrote:
- MNG: The first thing you must realize about Bush he
- is a monkey.
-
- There
-
-
- I hope you understand now not to ridicule Bush
- because monkies dont know any better.
-
-
- A bag of nuclear grade cashews could do a better job
- at preiding over this country than a monkey.
-
-
- It's not the monkey's fault.
-
-
- Monkies are dumb.
-
-
- Monkey! What is it good for!

That's pretty damn funny!!!

Demon, once again you show extreme dedication in missing the point.

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee>******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******<center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-08-2003, 02:33 PM

MNG

folk are right you do post way too much of OTHER ppls articles....kinda lame IMHO /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

as for the bush is being a evil oil viking of the imperialist America.

Give me a break...these articals by a bunch of left wing idealoges with the same BS retoric and false claims are not even worth debating...hence so many of the treads you start poot out in just a few non thread related replies.

Bring it on!!....give me a challenge....or start a blonde joke thread /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

never underestimate the logical power of sarcasm

I am 49 years old and havent lived a day...i am living from now on: Iraqi Citizen after fall of Bagdad

XyZspineZyX

07-08-2003, 03:20 PM

casauboneco wrote:
- MNG
-
- folk are right you do post way too much of OTHER
- ppls articles....kinda lame IMHO
-
- as for the bush is being a evil oil viking of the
- imperialist America.
-
- Give me a break...these articals by a bunch of left
- wing idealoges with the same BS retoric and false
- claims are not even worth debating...hence so many
- of the treads you start poot out in just a few non
- thread related replies.

Don't be silly. This is not a competition to see who can start the longest thread. But there is far too much whining about the articles I post. I post them for discussion and I simply do not understand your objections.

As for your assertion that these are by left-wing idealogues - well that is simply not true. I pull from a variety of sources both left and right. But while we are on the subject, why don't you tell me what you think a left-wing idealogue is?

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee>******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******<center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-08-2003, 08:23 PM

CaikFalkon wrote:
- MNG: The first thing you must realize about Bush he
- is a monkey.
-
- There
-
-
- I hope you understand now not to ridicule Bush
- because monkies dont know any better.
-
-
- A bag of nuclear grade cashews could do a better job
- at preiding over this country than a monkey.
-
-
- It's not the monkey's fault.
-
-
- Monkies are dumb.
-
-
-Calik, are you some kind of a baboon?

just wondering because you seem to know a lot about monkeys.

any relation to monkeys?

Your observation of the President is fascinating.

<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX

07-08-2003, 08:30 PM

Its funny how when we where thinking of going after Saddam the Liberals where saying, the US is going after Saddam for his oil, because if it was for the people why not go to Liberia, Congo, etc. Now that we are thinking of going there the same articles are comming up only the names of countries have changed (to protect the inocent)
Give me a break are we going to go through the same crap again, oil?

MNG plz find an article on the Making of T3 and find out what's up with the age difference of JC between T2 and T3.
I am sure Demon would be more interested

<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX

07-08-2003, 11:09 PM

Hornet57 wrote:
- Its funny how when we where thinking of going after
- Saddam the Liberals where saying, the US is going
- after Saddam for his oil, because if it was for the
- people why not go to Liberia, Congo, etc. Now that
- we are thinking of going there the same articles are
- comming up only the names of countries have changed
- (to protect the inocent)
- Give me a break are we going to go through the same
- crap again, oil?
-
- MNG plz find an article on the Making of T3 and find
- out what's up with the age difference of JC between
- T2 and T3.
- I am sure Demon would be more interested

I tried Hornet, I really did. However that task is beyond my modest powers....

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

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XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 02:20 AM

I didn't miss a point, your so-called point wasn't even said by you, so why should I read it from you? If I wanted to hear what some journalist thinks, I'll go read it myself, this is just the war of the articles, that's the real point, so who cares.

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
â â Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 03:31 AM

Demon_Mustang wrote:
- I didn't miss a point, your so-called point wasn't
- even said by you, so why should I read it from you?
- If I wanted to hear what some journalist thinks,
- I'll go read it myself, this is just the war of the
- articles, that's the real point, so who cares.

Demon... *sigh* never mind /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee>******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******<center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 06:05 AM

Oh no, you just proved that I'm wrong and missing something! Damn, how do you do it?!?!?!?!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
â â Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 08:01 AM

I lived with chimps for many years, I think I know a monkey when I see one, okay?

http://blu3.free.fr/temp/anime/hollow.kill.lol.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=blue, strength=5)">''Falc owns.''-Aesop,6th Century B.C. </table>

XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 12:22 PM

After Iraq nothing surprises me anymore. The oil is flowing again and yet there are still people who believe the US/UK liberated that country. However:

- Saddam is still alive and about and so are his mad sons.

- The country is in a worse shape than 6 months ago

- No WMD are found

- US soldiers die on a daily basis and the troops now prepare for a guerrilla warfare.

Btw, did they find Osama Bin Laden yet?

<center><marquee> *War is Peace* *Freedom is Slavery* *Ignorance is Strength* <marquee><center>

Message Edited on 07/09/0302:23PM by buccaneer

XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 12:35 PM

buccaneer wrote:
- After Iraq nothing surprises me anymore. The oil is
- flowing again and yet there are still people who
- believe the US/UK liberated that country. However:
-
-- Saddam is still alive and about and so are his mad sons.
-
-- The country is in a worse shape than 6 months ago
-
-- No WMD are found
-
-- US soldiers die on a daily basis and the troops now prepare for a guerrilla warfare.
-
-
- Btw, did they find Osama Bin Laden yet?

Secret strategy. Wait for Bin Laden to make his move and boom! Another two Middle-Eastern countries taken over.

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee>******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******<center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 01:02 PM

So it seems, MNG, so it seems...

Ironically, Geist once stated that the US didn't go for Iraq's oil because if oil was the objective, some african countries might be a much easier to control and are a "softer" target than Iraq.

Seems he was at least partially right there, although the sequencing was a little off.

<center><marquee> *War is Peace* *Freedom is Slavery* *Ignorance is Strength* <marquee><center>

XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 02:06 PM

buccaneer wrote:
- So it seems, MNG, so it seems...
-
- Ironically, Geist once stated that the US didn't go
- for Iraq's oil because if oil was the objective,
- some african countries might be a much easier to
- control and are a "softer" target than Iraq.

Ironically,those of you that were saying Bush is after the oil or why dont he go to Africa now are saying we shouldnt go to Africa.......time to make up your minds I think.
-
- Seems he was at least partially right there,
- although the sequencing was a little off.

Geist off........I dont think so.

BTW where is Geist?

<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 02:26 PM

Hornet57 wrote:
-
- Geist off........I dont think so.
-
- BTW where is Geist?
-

I have slain him with my sword.

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee>******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******Where are the weapons of mass destruction?******<center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-09-2003, 03:34 PM

"I have slain him with my sword."

You wish /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
â â Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell

XyZspineZyX

07-11-2003, 02:41 PM

Again we see American Terrorism at its finest, Masquerading Humanitarian efforts for pure economic / power gain.

Although I am not that familiar with all that is going on in Africa, history shows that it has been a country pillaged of its resources. People first, OOPS! I mean slaves, and now seemingly the black gold.

Also there was a report about Ford workers in Africa complaining of working conditions. Exploiting third world countries for cheap labor is yet another reason why so many hate America. They make products that can't even afford for American luxury.

But again, either the average American doesn't know, or simply just doesn't care. But yet would have the arrogance to call themselves "Innocent Americans". For it is the Taxpayer's money that finances the very government whom they neglect to hold accountable for their terrorist actions.

The fact that WMD have not been found proves this theory.it has been long enough for them to have been planted by America by now. But yet the people sit by quietly while the reasons for war has been proven bogus. What ever happen to the locations Powell had surveillance photos of at the UN meeting? Surely they have checked there by now.

Who could ever stop America's Terrorist Rampage?.The very people who actually who claim they are so free.

MNG, nice picture.are you a Mike Tyson fan? I don't really know him, but with his reputation. I wonder,.what does MT and MMG have in common?

Don't let the name fool ya, I'm much older and dangerous.

XyZspineZyX

07-11-2003, 04:25 PM

EDJof17 wrote:
-
- MNG, nice picture.are you a Mike Tyson fan? I don't
- really know him, but with his reputation. I
- wonder,.what does MT and MMG have in common?

We both share the same fondness for ears... and we're both real nice guys! I shall have to bring the Tyson Faced Dog back, I am getting so many compliments about it...

BTW Great to have you back EDJ. Good to hear from a guy who is not afraid to speak his mind.

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XyZspineZyX

07-11-2003, 10:20 PM

back to the subject :
Q: Africa: Is Bush after the oil again?!!
A: yes definatly, if it was Afganistan or Iraq it was just about the Oil.
See the connections between the Oil companies there or the owner of the Pipeline and the "business" friends of Mr. Bush which financed the election propaganda mashinery,
all the same reactionists

<center>
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</center>

<marquee><font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana">Now in the news.....................BUSH a LIAR.....................Ari Fleischer admited the polemic Comments from Mr. Bush about the potential of WoMD during his speach to the congress in January where simply a lie (http://news.focus.msn.de/G/GN/gn.htm?snr=122051).....................The Bush administration fooled the US with their lies about a threat towards the USA, a threat which obvioulsy does not exist at all and never did.....................There where no, there are no and there will not be WoMD in Iraq................This and only this where the legitimation of the Bush administration to attack the sovereign Country Iraq against all human rights and UN legitimation. So since now there where no WoMD, it remains as a fact that Iraq was innocent, means the USA attacked and invaded an innocent state.....................</marquee>

The F-word is appreciated (http://www.thegamingunion.co.uk/users/amcclan/Random/f-word.html)

XyZspineZyX

07-12-2003, 06:33 AM

Do we know what a left wing idealogue is?. Surely you jest, kind sir. I am factually certain that virtually everyone here knows implicitly what that quaint label pertains to. I shall tell you now and put your concerns about our collective intelligence to rest, finally and forever to rest , I say. Out damned Spot, out I say (Damn dog never listens to anything I tell him)

A Left Wing Idealogue: Hmm I'm sure I know what that is. Let me think for a second, don't rush me man: Aha!!!
I knew I would remember it:

A Left Wing Idealogue is an Idealogue who lives in the Left wing- hmm-or is that the West Wing. Dangit, I was sure that I knew that one. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Oh, and I won't call you Shirly anymore either.

Leep Out:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~mrawluk/leepsig/leepsignature.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-15-2003, 01:52 PM

CaikFalkon wrote:
- I lived with chimps for many years, I think I know a
- monkey when I see one, okay?

Do you see a monkey?

http://www.all2true.org/html/_graphics/mirror.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 05:11 AM

Let me get this straight. You are accusing Bush of covering up his corrupted scheme to gain oil with spending billions of dollars on the battle against AIDs in Africa. Is this basically the principle behind your disscusion?
I have not seen this issue brought up before and it is rather ammusing. Im surprised you didn't bring up the race card on this one. That's what a lot of democrats are bringing up.

Anyways, trade is always a good thing and getting oil from people isn't evil. This issue will always come up Im sure. When we went into Iraq, according the left wingers, it was about the oil. Any other country we go into or help it will be the same. Why dont we just keep all of our money and not visit any other country. Lets never help another country ever. Lets be 100% independent. Lets also get rid of our millitary and allow people to blow our nation and people up.

Helping Africa with AIDs also isn't an evil plot. Did you know that, international health experts say 40% of Botswana's 1.68 million people are infected with HIV? These people can use a lot of help they are suffering greater then any country. I personally think it's great to help these people out. You didn't mention once that helping Africa was even a good thing. Do you think Bush's plan to help these people is a bad thing? Would you rather them just suffer?

<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">
EasyCo</FONT><FONT SIZE="-2">
TEAM GHOST
AIM: easytxco
http://www.teamghost.com/images/sigs/ezsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 12:57 PM

EasyCo wrote:
- Let me get this straight. You are accusing Bush of
- covering up his corrupted scheme to gain oil with
- spending billions of dollars on the battle against
- AIDs in Africa. Is this basically the principle
- behind your disscusion?
- I have not seen this issue brought up before and it
- is rather ammusing. Im surprised you didn't bring up
- the race card on this one. That's what a lot of
- democrats are bringing up.
-
- Anyways, trade is always a good thing and getting
- oil from people isn't evil. This issue will always
- come up Im sure. When we went into Iraq, according
- the left wingers, it was about the oil. Any other
- country we go into or help it will be the same. Why
- dont we just keep all of our money and not visit any
- other country. Lets never help another country ever.
- Lets be 100% independent. Lets also get rid of our
- millitary and allow people to blow our nation and
- people up.
-
- Helping Africa with AIDs also isn't an evil plot.
- Did you know that, international health experts say
- 40% of Botswana's 1.68 million people are infected
- with HIV? These people can use a lot of help they
- are suffering greater then any country. I personally
- think it's great to help these people out. You
- didn't mention once that helping Africa was even a
- good thing. Do you think Bush's plan to help these
- people is a bad thing? Would you rather them just
- suffer?
-

You seem to be confused about the difference between trade and "getting oil from people". But all that aside I have trouble believing a guy who lies through his teeth over and over again:

"The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power, along with other nations, so as to make sure he was not a threat to the United States and our friends and allies in the region."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030714-3.html

Yes I have trouble believing a compulsive liar who has already started two wars killing tens of thousands of people and causing the starvation and misery of countless others, has any intention of helping anyone in Africa, especially when the $3million per year he originally said he was sending gets smaller and smaller.

But maybe I am too harsh. Maybe he is not a liar but merely incompetent and cannot remember what he said the week before and has no idea what his staff are doing. Maybe he thinks that magic words will save the world... or maybe not. Either way the safest choice is to lock this man up in a small dark room window no windows where he cannot do anymore harm to the world.

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XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 01:14 PM

At least I know where you are coming from now. This is really an issue about Iraq. I mean, I'm sure you are still worried about this whole Africa thing as well as any other plan Bush comes up with. However, Iraq is causing you to not believe Bush. May I ask, how you have voted in the past? Is this just a left wing versus right wing issue here?

There have been so many posts on Iraq already so Ill just touch the issue. Since you think helping the Iraqi people was about oil, why are we giving control of their oil back to them? We spent money to fix it and make it beter for them. Sure, we will probably get some kind of deal out of it in the long run, but we just freed their people. I think the cause was a great one and was justified. I have a hard time believing it's all about the oil.

<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">
EasyCo</FONT><FONT SIZE="-2">
TEAM GHOST
AIM: easytxco
http://www.teamghost.com/images/sigs/ezsig.jpg

Message Edited on 07/16/0307:17AM by EasyCo

XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 01:50 PM

EasyCo wrote:
- At least I know where you are coming from now. This
- is really an issue about Iraq. I mean, I'm sure you
- are still worried about this whole Africa thing as
- well as any other plan Bush comes up with. However,
- Iraq is causing you to not believe Bush. May I ask,
- how you have voted in the past? Is this just a left
- wing versus right wing issue here?
-
- There have been so many posts on Iraq already so Ill
- just touch the issue. Since you think helping the
- Iraqi people was about oil, why are we giving
- control of their oil back to them? We spent money to
- fix it and make it beter for them. Sure, we will
- probably get some kind of deal out of it in the long
- run, but we just freed their people. I think the
- cause was a great one and was justified. I have a
- hard time believing it's all about the oil.

Hmm a lot of implicit assumptions buried in your post. But since the entire case for war has unravelled how exactly do you think this war was justified?

Can you substantiate how the Iraqi people are getting control of the oil? And how they are being "helped"?

I am neither Left wing nor Right. I am a Libertarian. I do not know exactly what Bush's motives in Africa but it is not to help anyone other than his constituents.

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XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 03:46 PM

- But since the entire case for war has
- unravelled how exactly do you think this war was
- justified?

You are never going to feel this war was justified so I'm not going to try and make you feel that way. However, getting rid of a terrorist camp in Iraq and getting rid of Saddam has made the world a better place in MY opinion. It was a great birthday for me on April 9th to say the least. I do think there are bigger fish to fry but Iraq needed to be taken care of as well.

- Can you substantiate how the Iraqi people are
- getting control of the oil? And how they are being
- "helped"?

I'll have to get the facts for the Iraqi oil comment I made. I'll post the sources when I get them. It will probably be later tonight since Im at work.

-MisterNiceGuy wrote:
-I do not know exactly what Bush's
- motives in Africa but it is not to help anyone other
- than his constituents.

15 billion dollars to fund labs and medical supplies for Africans with AIDs isn't going to help? I dont see how that is not going to help these suffering people. You might think we are in there for other reasons, conspiracy theorist =), but that money is going to help people, there is no doubt about it.

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XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 03:53 PM

Here is one source which repeats the fact that we are modernizing their oil fields for them. We are helping the Iraqi people in their oil production so that this degraded nation under Saddam's rule will now be able to build itself back up. Their money will no longer go to paying for large palaces while the people starve and need medical attention. They will also have complete control of their oil fields. The White House has repeated it many times and they better follow through with it. =)

-----------------------------------------
Postwar Iraqi oil plan

Rundown facilities would get major U.S. upgrade

By TIMOTHY J. BURGER
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON - U.S. energy industry experts are poised to modernize Iraq's vast oil production facilities to help cover the tab for billions of dollars in postwar reconstruction.

...

Bush told House and Senate energy bill conferees last month that "American technology will have those oil fields even more productive" after the U.S. ends Saddam's regime, confirmed Rep. Charles Rangel (D-Manhattan), who attended the meeting.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/25815p-24406c.html

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Message Edited on 07/16/0309:58AM by EasyCo

XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 04:48 PM

EasyCo wrote:
- You are never going to feel this war was justified
- so I'm not going to try and make you feel that way.
- However, getting rid of a terrorist camp in Iraq and
- getting rid of Saddam has made the world a better
- place in MY opinion. It was a great birthday for me
- on April 9th to say the least. I do think there are
- bigger fish to fry but Iraq needed to be taken care
- of as well.

I do not believe this is your intention but you are implying here that the sacrifice of tens of thousands of people and the destruction of millions of dollars worth of property just to get one man was just what you needed to have a great birthday. Perhaps for you the world is a better place but we cannot say that for the people now suffering in Iraq as a direct result of this invasion.

You are right that you will not be able to convince me that this war was justified but any rational person can see that it was not. The entire case for war as put to us by the politicians has completely unravelled. How could you justify it? Well apparently according to you, the war was justified simply because it made you feel better. You have the luxury of not suffering the worst consequences.

--MisterNiceGuy wrote:
--I do not know exactly what Bush's
-- motives in Africa but it is not to help anyone other
-- than his constituents.
-
- 15 billion dollars to fund labs and medical supplies
- for Africans with AIDs isn't going to help? I dont
- see how that is not going to help these suffering
- people. You might think we are in there for other
- reasons, conspiracy theorist /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif , but that money is
- going to help people, there is no doubt about it.

Once you scratch beneath the surface you find that it is not $15bn and it is not going to the people you thought it would. So far it appears likely that perhaps only half will be appropriated for AIDS notwithstanding other objections.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/07/11/aids.africa/index.html
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030702-113116-5041r.htm

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Message Edited on 07/16/0312:57PM by MisterNiceGuy

XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 05:30 PM

- I do not believe this is your intention but you are
- implying here that the sacrifice of tens of
- thousands of people and the destruction of millions
- of dollars worth of property just to get one man was
- just what you needed to have a great birthday.
- Perhaps for you the world is a better place but we
- cannot say that for the people now suffering in Iraq
- as a direct result of this invasion.

First off it wasnt one man. It was a regime. A regime that is a threat to the world not only to Iraq. Second, I would like to see the sourse for number of innocent people dead in Iraq. People are going to be better off without Saddam believe me. There is no doubt about that.

- You are right that you will not be able to convince
- me that this war was justified but any rational
- person can see that it was not. The entire case for
- war as put to us by the politicians has completely
- unravelled. How could you justify it? Well
- apparently according to you, the war was justified
- simply because it made you feel better. You have
- the luxury of not suffering the worst consequences.

I would have been there myself if I havnt blown out my knee. Im working on it now so I can join back up. I would risk my life over this conflict...

I have to go but I will return with more =)

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XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 08:00 PM

EasyCo wrote:
-- I do not believe this is your intention but you are
-- implying here that the sacrifice of tens of
-- thousands of people and the destruction of millions
-- of dollars worth of property just to get one man was
-- just what you needed to have a great birthday.
-- Perhaps for you the world is a better place but we
-- cannot say that for the people now suffering in Iraq
-- as a direct result of this invasion.
-
- First off it wasnt one man. It was a regime. A
- regime that is a threat to the world not only to
- Iraq. Second, I would like to see the sourse for
- number of innocent people dead in Iraq. People are
- going to be better off without Saddam believe me.
- There is no doubt about that.

- I would have been there myself if I havnt blown out
- my knee. Im working on it now so I can join back up.
- I would risk my life over this conflict...
-
- I have to go but I will return with more /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I appreciate your honesty. I will wait for your complete argument before I respond further.

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XyZspineZyX

07-16-2003, 11:15 PM

-MisterNiceGuy wrote:
-Well
- apparently according to you, the war was justified
- simply because it made you feel better. You have
- the luxury of not suffering the worst consequences.

Sure the war made me feel better. It also made many Iraqis feel better. I still remember that day when they tore down that statue and stomped on Saddams head. Iraqis were holding up signs supporting our troops. Iraqi people were taking pictures with our brave marines asking for another picture just in case the first one doesn't come out. What a terrific day for them. You're right, I do have the luxury of not suffering the worst consequence. God bless those brave men and women that fought there that day. God bless those poor innocent Iraqi people that were killed by us or by Saddam's army which put them all at risk by hiding in churches, press hotel rooms, class rooms, etc.

-MisterNiceGuy wrote:
- Once you scratch beneath the surface you find that
- it is not $15bn and it is not going to the people
- you thought it would. So far it appears likely that
- perhaps only half will be appropriated for AIDS
- notwithstanding other objections.

I read those articles and it didn't say the people would never receive 15 billion dollars. I could have misread it and if I did then please point it out. Bush actually signed a 15 billion dollar plan and all of that is going towards fighting Aids within 5 years. It sounds like the first year is being under budgeted and is receiving criticism. I think they should get that $3 billion in the first year which they promised supposedly. However, if the white house feels that the 2 billion dollars is needed now then I would have to agree with them. They assess the situation and decide what Africa needs. I would rather them do that then just spend an extra billion on stuff they feel like isn't needed at the moment.

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Message Edited on 07/16/0305:19PM by EasyCo

XyZspineZyX

07-17-2003, 07:57 AM

"Sure the war made me feel better. It also made many Iraqis feel better. I still remember that day when they tore down that statue and stomped on Saddams head."

Ah yes, and surely, it was a spontanious event and could not be a PR stunt...

"Iraqis were holding up signs supporting our troops. Iraqi people were taking pictures with our brave marines asking for another picture just in case the first one doesn't come out. What a terrific day for them. You're right, I do have the luxury of not suffering the worst consequence. God bless those brave men and women that fought there that day. God bless those poor innocent Iraqi people that were killed by us or by Saddam's army which put them all at risk by hiding in churches, press hotel rooms, class rooms, etc."

Yes, and god bless all the Iraqi civilians that died in hospitals that had no power and no security, while American soldiers were protecting the Ministry of Oil. And god bless all those civilians that died from lack of or dirty water, caused by bombed out water plants. And god bless all the civilians killed during the looting, which raged on while the "liberators" made sure to help themselves at the tax free shop at the old Saddam Airport. And god bless the people who are still dieing because of destroyed infrastructure. God bless the unemployed oilworkers who are not allowed to return to the oil fields, while American companies with American workers "rebuild" the wells for Iraqs on good.

God bless all of us!

XyZspineZyX

07-17-2003, 01:59 PM

Thank you for an intelligent discussion MisterNiceGuy. Many people around here don't know how to approach them.

Note: Sarcasm about our marines and the dead is very disrespectfull.
<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">
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Message Edited on 07/17/0308:47AM by EasyCo

XyZspineZyX

07-17-2003, 04:48 PM

EasyCo wrote:
- First off it wasnt one man. It was a regime. A
- regime that is a threat to the world not only to
- Iraq. Second, I would like to see the sourse for
- number of innocent people dead in Iraq. People are
- going to be better off without Saddam believe me.
- There is no doubt about that.

And herein lies the rub. Fair enough if you felt the justification for the war lay in removing Saddam's regime but there are two major problems with that. First of all, the line that was fed to Congress and to the public was that Saddam had a WMD arsenal and was about to use it. This has been completely disproved and it is becoming clear that the Bush Administration deliberately mislead us.

Second, you cannot just walk into a country and change the regime like you are changing a lightbulb. By utterly destroying the political and government infrastructure the US has left a total political vacuum. In otherwords, chaos. Getting rid of a tyrannical regime is a great intention but the road to hell is paved with the greatest of intentions.

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XyZspineZyX

07-17-2003, 05:03 PM

Consider this EasyCo:

Outrage at US plan to mortgage Iraqi oil

Faisal Islam, economics correspondent
Sunday July 13, 2003
The Observer

American plans to mortgage Iraq's future oil supplies to pay for expensive postwar reconstruction work risk a repeat of mistakes made with Germany after the First World War, debt relief campaigners said this weekend.
Much of the revenue will be securitised over at least a decade under the proposals being pushed by the US Export Import Bank, the Bush administration's trade promotion body, and a lobbying group that includes key American contractors Bechtel and Halliburton.

Reports suggest that $30 billion of loans will be backed by Iraq's reserves, the second biggest in the world.

Anne Pettifor, head of the Jubilee Plus debt relief campaign, said 'It is outrageous that the poor people of Iraq will be lumbered with billions of dollars of debt that will be used to boost the share prices of Wall Street financiers and US construction giants.'

She warned against the coalition 'using the instrument of debt to control Iraq', after it leaves. Such a motive was behind the way Germany was treated after 1918, provoking resentment that eventually encouraged the rise of Adolf Hitler.

The World Bank has said such commitments should only be made by a sovereign Iraqi government. The plans will complicate a conference on Iraq's existing $120bn debt, which the US wants European powers to cancel.

The Department for International Development would not rule out British participation in the scheme.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,997055,00.html

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XyZspineZyX

07-17-2003, 10:39 PM

First of all, the line that was fed to
- Congress and to the public was that Saddam had a WMD
- arsenal and was about to use it. This has been
- completely disproved and it is becoming clear that
- the Bush Administration deliberately mislead us.

I agree with part of this statement. The White House said there were WMD and we havn't found any yet. However, this has not been completely disproved yet and the Bush administration, there is no proof of this, did not deliberately mislead us. The CIA felt these were all facts. If you are referring to the claim that Iraq was buying uranium from Africa, then you are wrong. Bush said in his report that Britain belived this was being done. Tony Blair still backs that report. If you are talking about the WMD then it looks like something was wrong with that intelligence as well but that's something the CIA should explain.

- Second, you cannot just walk into a country and
- change the regime like you are changing a lightbulb.
- By utterly destroying the political and government
- infrastructure the US has left a total political
- vacuum. In otherwords, chaos. Getting rid of a
- tyrannical regime is a great intention but the road
- to hell is paved with the greatest of intentions.

What were they suppose to do? Were they suppose to leave the baath party? The party which created this chaos in Iraq in the first place. This is a difficult operation and that is why our men and women are still there today.

EDIT: Your link didnt work for the Iraq debt post you made. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I really want to read it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">
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Message Edited on 07/17/0304:42PM by EasyCo

XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 12:04 AM

MNG: A repeat from the first world war? Talk about a stretch, surely you could dig up a something a little more recent to make that point- no i guess you can't. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

The poor Iraqi people. Man: what do you think they were doing while Saddam was in power- all going to Disneyland every week? The only place they were going was into the ground at an alarming rate.

Poor people of Iraq are going to be strapped with billions in debt? Saddam kept virtually all of them in complete poverty. Something like 20$ a month was the wage most made, i heard on CNN.

I guarantee you they will be better off, at least financially, if they are given even a small percentage of the oil revenue.
AS far as Bush going into it for the oil: I don't completely disagree with that assertion. But look at it this way: It's a dirty, uh, oily, greasy job, but hey, someone's gotta do it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Leep Out:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~mrawluk/leepsig/leepsignature.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 03:31 AM

EasyCo wrote:

Well dear boy no one can say that WMD does not exist. But no one can say the tooth fairy does not exist either. I mean have you looked every single place she might hide? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
- What were they suppose to do? Were they suppose to
- leave the baath party?

In a word, yes. They were the guys who knew how to run the country. With a slight nod to Machiavelli, in medieval times when a king wanted to conquer another domain he would slay the current ruler and any heirs and replace him with some else from the territory who knew the land but could be convinced (a kind word, some money and a sword) to be loyal. They also would not destroy the physical infrastructure. They would need this to house their new government. This is similar to what the Allies did in Germany and Japan.

The Baath party did not create chaos, rather they kept the country run as a strictly authoritarian Stalinist state. People did not have to wait for hours for petrol and the electricity worked.

-
- EDIT: Your link didnt work for the Iraq debt post
- you made. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif I really want to read it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I just tried it - it works!

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XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 03:48 AM

- The Baath party did not create chaos, rather they
- kept the country run as a strictly authoritarian
- Stalinist state. People did not have to wait for
- hours for petrol and the electricity worked.

I'm sorry, but I have to say something here, all the politics to the side, how can you support this? The very idea a state like this where if you look at someone within authority wrong and you and your family disappear is good? I suppose you admire Hitler and the National Socialist Party because they brought Germany out the chaos after WWI? The ends justify the means.

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XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 06:59 AM

"I agree with part of this statement. The White House said there were WMD and we havn't found any yet. However, this has not been completely disproved yet and the Bush administration, there is no proof of this, did not deliberately mislead us."

1. Its quite clear that the clear and present danger described was bogus. There were no WMD's ready to be used. There were no production facilities spewing out nuclear, biological or chemical weapons. If there had been, they would have been found by now because thats just not something you tuck in the closet.

2. This is the great thing about plausible denial. You can always say "Oh no, we trusted the information they gave us!" but thats BS. Is their job, duty and responsibility to make sure that the information they get is correct.

"The CIA felt these were all facts."

Actually, they didnt. The National Security Advisor did. CIA was more sceptical on the matter. And rightly so.

"What were they suppose to do? Were they suppose to leave the baath party? The party which created this chaos in Iraq in the first place. This is a difficult operation and that is why our men and women are still there today. "

I cant answer this better than a friend of mine did on another forum, so I will copy and paste his response:
---------------------------
The distrubing about the Iraq situation is not that everything isn't perfect by now. That would be unrealistic to expect. The disturbing thing is that things are getting worse, not better. And the damage to Iraq came after the war.

A couple of days before Baghdad fell, they had electricity and water in the city. Now, three months after it fell, they still don't have it and very little is done about it. The biggest failure was the initial one. Instead of imposing marshal law directly, stopping the looting and destruction US troops stood idely by when the system selfdestructed.

Compare this to Kosovo where the UN troops moved in directly and secured all infrastructure and made sure that the system did not break down. And it didn't.

The situation was very similar to that one in Iraq. There was a regime change over night. Good planning and execution made sure that the civilians would not suffer and that all basic services in the society continued to function. When I say that the situation was similar to the one in Iraq, I'm skipping the fact that the UN had to deal with hundreds of thousands of refugees returning. So overall it was a much more complex task to coordinate than the one the US is facing in Iraq.
---------------------------

XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 12:58 PM

DayGlow wrote:
-- The Baath party did not create chaos, rather they
-- kept the country run as a strictly authoritarian
-- Stalinist state. People did not have to wait for
-- hours for petrol and the electricity worked.
-
- I'm sorry, but I have to say something here, all the
- politics to the side, how can you support this? The
- very idea a state like this where if you look at
- someone within authority wrong and you and your
- family disappear is good? I suppose you admire
- Hitler and the National Socialist Party because they
- brought Germany out the chaos after WWI? The ends
- justify the means.
-

Dayglow, would you be so kind as to point out where I said I supported a Stalinist regime? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I'm kidding but I think you understand the mistake you made. It is important in debates like these to use dispassionate logic and to describe the facts as they are in order not to confuse the issue. If you take my comments at face value you will see that I merely disagreed with Easyco's characterization that the Baath Party created chaos. That does not mean I think they were good.

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XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 01:49 PM

Did you watch Tony Blair's speech last night MNG? It was put perfectly...

---------------------------------------
History will forgive the Coalition invasion of Iraq, even if no link is proven between terrorism and weapons of mass destruction, Tony Blair has said.

Speaking before a joint meeting of Congress in Washington, the Prime Minister said America must "listen as well as lead" in the fight against terrorism.

"Can we be sure that terrorism and weapons of mass destruction will join together?

"Let us say one thing. If we are wrong, we will have destroyed a threat that, at its least, is responsible for inhuman carnage and suffering.

"That is something I am confident history will forgive.

"But if our critics are wrong, if we are right, as I believe with every fibre of instinct and conviction I have that we are, and we do not act, then we will have hesitated in the face of this menace when we should have given leadership.

"That is something history will not forgive."
----------------------------------------------

As for the baath party... I still do not feel like they should have been taken out of power. What do you think of people like, UGLA ABID SAQR AL-KUBAYSI a Ba'th Party Regional, the 2 of clubs? How about SAYF AL-DIN AL-MASHHADANI the 3 of clubs? How about SAMIR ABD AL-AZIZ AL-NAJIM the 4 of clubs? I could go on, but I'm not going to. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif All these men created chaos...

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Message Edited on 07/18/0307:50AM by EasyCo

XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 09:47 PM

MisterNiceGuy You have way too much time on your hands..And this is the wrong place to be posting your mind mush.people here are not receptive to this crap.your kind never gets it.Blame the USA for all your problems,Use the USA as a scapegoat.But all your problems are yours and your fault alone.and a fyi that country in Africa is asking for help!!
I bet you never been to Africa or the Middle East..I have and you need to wake up and grow up.The world is not what you think it is.And once you leave the safty of your backyard and go to these places. you will figure that out quick.your mind is pollated with things others have told you and not things you have seen for yourself.Seeing first hand is the only truth!!!So stop posting you misinformation until you buy a airline ticket and fly there and talk to the folks who live there and get it first hand.I have And I know

XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 10:33 PM

Inzane2003 wrote:
- MisterNiceGuy You have way too much time on your
- hands..And this is the wrong place to be posting
- your mind mush.people here are not receptive to this
- crap.your kind never gets it.Blame the USA for all
- your problems,Use the USA as a scapegoat.But all
- your problems are yours and your fault alone.and a
- fyi that country in Africa is asking for help!!
- I bet you never been to Africa or the Middle
- East..I have and you need to wake up and grow up.The
- world is not what you think it is.And once you leave
- the safty of your backyard and go to these places.
- you will figure that out quick.your mind is pollated
- with things others have told you and not things you
- have seen for yourself.Seeing first hand is the only
- truth!!!So stop posting you misinformation until you
- buy a airline ticket and fly there and talk to the
- folks who live there and get it first hand.I have
- And I know

First off, speak for yourself. Secondly, there are plenty of people here at this particular forum that enjoy debating issues which MNG brings to light. If you don't like his topics my advice to you is simply ignore them and don't post any replies. It is as simple as that.

Furthermore, how could you be so ignorant as to presume you know where one has traveled throughout the world simply because he raises certain concerns with how the current administration operates?

Besides, I personally have lived and worked in various Middle Eastern/North African countries, and am very knowledgeable on their peoples and cultures, but I still have my qualms with the manner in which this Whitehouse handles their foreign/military policies.

XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 11:07 PM

I can understand the gentleman's concerns with MNG's posts. I do not share those concerns because i believe that my friend is a sincere decent individual who posts these for the purpose of invoking both thought and intelligent discussion. I do think that there are times when he may skirt the edges of acceptable protocal- but I also believe that this is not intentional. just a difference in how someone from another coultry may view and percieve us. i confess that I share "Some" of his concerns and i think we must all agree that he does spark lively debate and conversation.
So- while i understand and even sympathize with the other gentleman's concerns, i also believe that when he comes to know MNG a little better he will realize and accept his writings in the vein they are offered.

of course i may be dreadfully misguided and MNG may actually be a Communist plant or dupe sent here to confuse the masses and infiltrate our minds with his own particular brand of mind control: /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif Then again, perhaps not> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Leep Out:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~mrawluk/leepsig/leepsignature.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-18-2003, 11:17 PM

XyZspineZyX

07-19-2003, 01:22 AM

V3-Dev
You lie ,you never spent a day in the Middle East and Africa your the ignort one..and for you to say what you did means you have never been there and never seen that ,FYI I was with the Peace Corps..And your plain delusive,I promote peace and human rights ,After your kind wages war with misinformation and Deceit and preaching hate and preforming genocide to those who dont agree with you ideas.your lies kill many children..so who truly is the ignort one,I know what my actions do..do you know what yours do?????

XyZspineZyX

07-19-2003, 02:06 AM

Well, it would appear you are developing a serious habit of presumption dear boy. Either that or you are simply out of your mind. You are not only claiming somebody is a liar whom you don't know and never met before, but you also say I am promoter of genocide which is laughable if not immaterial to the discussion to begin with.

Anyway, I'm sure somebody who was a member of the Peace Corp is intelligent enough to notice good advice when he is presented with some. Therefore, like I said previously, my suggestion to you is if you don't like a particular topic that is posted here at this forum, simply don't read it or reply to it. I don't think that is too difficult to understand now is it?

XyZspineZyX

07-19-2003, 04:30 AM

First off V3-Dev you stuck you nose into something you where better off staying out of.This had nothing to do with you,But you made your choice.So reap the reward

quote
- simply don't read it or reply to
- it. I don't think that is too difficult to
- understand now is it?

you should have followed your own advice. so quick to give but never willing to take

XyZspineZyX

07-20-2003, 02:39 AM

Leep wrote:

- of course i may be dreadfully misguided and MNG may
- actually be a Communist plant or dupe sent here to
- confuse the masses and infiltrate our minds with his
- own particular brand of mind control:

Curses!!! Foiled again! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Leep I am a strict Libertarian and my beef is with over-bearing government and what I see as its excesses. I think America has made the most astounding progress of any country of the last two centuries and you are right, I am frustrated with what I see as the greedy attempts of politicians to destroy what the Founding Fathers created.

V3 thank you for your support.

Inzane2003 I was going to respond to you but then I realised that you are stark raving bonkers and instead decided to leave you this link so that you can be diagnosed and seek proper treatment.
http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv

Good luck my poor sick friend /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee><font color="red"><font size="2"
<style="Verdana">"The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain, 1917<font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana"><center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-20-2003, 06:29 PM

Aha: Now I know where you get all that info from. So you are a Libertarian, i thought as much> But, i am a little confused as to why you never told us this before. i mean, sure it might not be the most exciting job in the world, but to work in a Library is a noble profession. As to being strict, well all librarians are strict.."Shhhhh"
Libertarian, hmm- that must mean you work for a Governent library.

Now, on a more somber note. I realize that i "Thought" I was speaking in jest when i accused you of confusing the masses. but, I am saddened to say that I now believe that this was a true and accurate statement. Why just the other evening i was walking down one of our city streets and chanced to pass by a Catholic Church. I noticed by the sign outside that they were in the middle of evening Mass.
Good detective that i am, i ambled casually up to the door and peered unobtrusively inside. I was shocked by what i witnessed. There, right in front of my disbelieving eyes,instead of the usual Mass, i heard the congregation murmuring excitedly. then , i heard I- 43, then O- 17, then suddenly one of them jumped up and waving a card in his head yelled jubilantly, "Bingo". Now, if that isn't confusing the "Masses", i don't know what is. ;P At least i know i'm confused.

Oh, an update on my brother and his accident. You remember when I said he bumped the shelf in the closet and a typewriter fell off and onto his head? Remember i said he immediately lapsed into a "Comma" Well, i'm happy to say that although we haven't gotten a complete sentence from him since, last week we did get a couple of lists . /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Leep Out:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~mrawluk/leepsig/leepsignature.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-20-2003, 06:39 PM

Leep... very amusing /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

How's the fly fishing?

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee><font color="red"><font size="2"
<style="Verdana">"The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain, 1917<font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana"><center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-21-2003, 07:44 AM

Ah, The flyfishing. I am sad to say it is not all that great. We are still in a serious drought. Fires raging around the state-water is scarce and getting more so. What water that is still in the rivers is warming due to the high temps. We have been in the 90's and 100's for some time now. We are not used to these temps, though they have been with us for about three summers now. Beter times ahead, i hope.

On a lighter note: Last year i had some people who asked me the same question: Leep? How is the fishing, especially when it is so hot? I replied that it was not good and had just gotten worse. "What happened", they asked?
"Well, the water temperature has gotten so high that it is making the fish dangerously warm. And, Montana trout, being wiser than most others, began crawling out of the water and spending the hotter hours in the shade of the bridges we have along our waterways, just the hottest afternoon hours, mind you. As there was a cool breeze flowing about under them, it actually was cooler there than in the rivers. There were German Browns-strong, independant fish- the Rainbow trout- colorful and polite- The Cutthroat Trout, striking in color, but somewhat naive when it came to distinguishing between real insects and the hand tied ones we drifted by them. The Mountain Whitefish, looked upon with disdain by most. The evenings would find them gathered quietly and unobtrusively under the bridges, fanning themselves in an attempt to cool off just a little. It got so bad that they took to spending all their time on the bank, eating the insects that lived there, before they got into the water. It seems that i was the only one that witnessed this strange goings on.
I knew that without rain, we were all in trouble. No one was catching any fish. i could have told them why, but the heck with them. This went on for about a month when suddenly there was a change in the air- the sky darkened- the air cooled subtley- a breeze suddenly began to make it's way across the landscape. The clouds covered the sky from one side to the other. Thunder crashed and then-By The Lord Harry- it rained- it poured-cold clear water filled the rivers and streams from bank to bank. The drought was over.
But a terrible thing happened: The trout-overjoyed that the hot spell was finally over -without thinking- jumped as one back into the river.
Poor bastards all Drowned: So you can see the fishing is a little slow this year. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Leep Out:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~mrawluk/leepsig/leepsignature.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-22-2003, 01:18 AM

Sorry to hear that Leep. Who's Lord Harry?

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee><font color="red"><font size="2"
<style="Verdana">"The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain, 1917<font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana"><center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-22-2003, 05:43 PM

Ah, you misunderstood my meaning there MNG: By my keen powers of perception I have deduced that your first name is Harry. And-therefore when i said, By The Lord Harry, i was referring to you, namely. Hmm, perhaps i misplaced my comma. No , it's ok. i am used to the look of amazement and disbelief whenever I use these powers. I try to use them for only furthering the cause of goodness, or greatness, hmm-or great goodness. Maybe it was good greatness. Now you see why i seldom use this power, in the wrong hands it could cause great, uh, non goodness, or un greatness. I'll tell you the truth, this super power trip ain't all it's cracked up to be. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
Hope this clears up any misunderstanding. Lord knows i hate to have any cloudy misunderstandings, Harry. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Leep Out:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~mrawluk/leepsig/leepsignature.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-22-2003, 06:09 PM

Leep wrote:
- Ah, you misunderstood my meaning there MNG: By my
- keen powers of perception I have deduced that your
- first name is Harry. And-therefore when i said, By
- The Lord Harry, i was referring to you, namely. Hmm,
- perhaps i misplaced my comma. No , it's ok. i am
- used to the look of amazement and disbelief whenever
- I use these powers. I try to use them for only
- furthering the cause of goodness, or greatness,
- hmm-or great goodness. Maybe it was good greatness.
- Now you see why i seldom use this power, in the
- wrong hands it could cause great, uh, non goodness,
- or un greatness. I'll tell you the truth, this super
- power trip ain't all it's cracked up to be. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
-
- Hope this clears up any misunderstanding. Lord
- knows i hate to have any cloudy misunderstandings,
- Harry.

Leep you are one different guy. The trout drowned by jumping into the river you say? What foul sorcery is this?

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee><font color="red"><font size="2"
<style="Verdana">"The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain, 1917<font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana"><center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-22-2003, 09:22 PM

That's easy for you to say, MNG: Hmm, after looking at this a little closer i guess it is easy for anyone to say.
As for the question as to what foul sorcery is responsible for this foul deed?
I think it was that dang Chicken Wizard that resides under yon bridge. Well, it could happen.

Leep Out:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~mrawluk/leepsig/leepsignature.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-27-2003, 07:41 PM

again, when was he after the oil the first time, and even if he was, I didnt seen a decline in the pricing of unleaded fuel near my nodes of gas stations.

I decided a long time ago, dubya has his own agenda that is in no way related to me, so.

A) I wont vote for him come re-election time
B) I wont watch any of his speeches

<center><image width="187" height="128" src="http://www.angelfire.com/ex/enceenoman/squirrel.JPG"></center>

XyZspineZyX

07-27-2003, 10:32 PM

he never was after the oil tard

XyZspineZyX

07-28-2003, 05:43 AM

You guys keep it up and the Chicken Wizard will get you too.

Leep out:

http://www.arach.net.au/~allanb/gr/leep/LEEP3.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-28-2003, 01:23 PM

AlphaDelta219 wrote:
- he never was after the oil tard

whats an "oil tard"?

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee><font color="red"><font size="2"
<style="Verdana">"The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain, 1917<font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana"><center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-28-2003, 03:48 PM

MisterNiceGuy wrote:
-
- AlphaDelta219 wrote:
-- he never was after the oil tard
-
- whats an "oil tard"?
-
-
- "Oil tard" = a person that keeps insisting that this war was about oil.

<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX

07-28-2003, 04:47 PM

Hornet57 wrote:
-
- MisterNiceGuy wrote:
--
-- AlphaDelta219 wrote:
--- he never was after the oil tard
--
-- whats an "oil tard"?
--
--
-- "Oil tard" = a person that keeps insisting that this war was about oil.

Thank you for the enlightenment Hornet. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee><font color="red"><font size="2"
<style="Verdana">"The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain, 1917<font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana"><center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-30-2003, 04:46 PM

- Hornet57 wrote:
--
-- MisterNiceGuy wrote:
---
--- AlphaDelta219 wrote:
---- he never was after the oil tard
---
--- whats an "oil tard"?
---
---
--- "Oil tard" = a person that keeps insisting that this war was about oil.

Maybe it was? People keep insisting that Halliburton "are the best" except that...

"DALLAS (AP) - Halliburton Co. asked a federal judge Tuesday to throw out a lawsuit charging that the company and Vice President **** Cheney, its former chief executive, misled investors by changing the way it counted revenue from construction projects.

A lawyer for Judicial Watch, a public interest group that filed the lawsuit on behalf of three small investors, said the company tried to polish its financial reports beginning in 1998 by booking revenue on cost overruns before it was certain of getting paid.

Halliburton shares dropped sharply when the oilfield-services company's performance sagged in 2001. The Securities and Exchange Commission is investigating the accounting change and the way Halliburton disclosed it. "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-2968006,00.html

http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee><font color="red"><font size="2"
<style="Verdana">"The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain, 1917<font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana"><center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX

07-30-2003, 04:54 PM

Psh, I'm done talking about Iraq. the US thinks there the hereoes coming in there. It started with WOMD, then I have no idea how it turned into "Operation Iraqi Freedom", now it's over, and we found no evidence of WOMD,

And WOOHOO! We got his sons!! Oh yes, Saddam won't have anymore quality time with his sons, oh the glory of killing someones son!..

_________________________________________
----====Lung-Tung for life====----

http://www.vap3r.com/stunts/uploads/Lung-Tung2.JPG

XyZspineZyX

07-31-2003, 04:57 AM

Durdd: It's no sin being young, i was young myself once. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Well, ah the heck with it.

Leep Out:

http://www.arach.net.au/~allanb/gr/leep/LEEP3.jpg

XyZspineZyX

07-31-2003, 01:42 PM

Yes Hornet, keep ignoring this 'coincedence' that every country the US 'liberates' seems to be conveniently up to thier ankles in Oil, or has a major pipeline... Just keep pushing it away every time you actually think clearly about it.

XyZspineZyX

07-31-2003, 06:20 PM

Well, before these countries discovered their vast holdings of oil, they didn't have the monetary resources to go out and murder innocent Americans. They had to be content with just killing their neighbors and one another.
Which thay have been doing since they first appeared on the scene, centuries or local wars and murdering on a massive scale. As long as they were just killing their own, we had no problem with that. population control, you know.When they decided to help us in our desire to control our rampant illegal immigration
, and our less than successful birth control, they forgot to run it by us first. I mean, i bet we had some good ideas along that line too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Now that they are all millionaires, and billionaires, that can pay other fools to go out and kill all those they are jealous of and/or do not agree with their own peculair concept of God and religion. I am surprised that no one has put that together yet. I've been waiting for someone to point out this rather apparent piece of history.

Leep Out:

http://www.arach.net.au/~allanb/gr/leep/LEEP3.jpg