GameSpot's E3 News - Why BG&E didn't bust out... (marketing)

[CaveBear2004]

The following quote is from GameSpot's E3 News: Q&A: Ubisoft's Jay Cohen (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/05/11/news_6096617.html)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>JC: Well yes, however, look at Beyond Good and Evil. Critically acclaimed, graphics, animations, gameplay. Why didnâ't it bust out?

GS: And what was the answer you guys came up with internally?

JC: Well, we didnâ't push it. We didnâ't go deep and try and go as far with the marketing campaign. We didnâ't put $10 million behind that. And the idea was to see the strength of the game community, and all the editors said they loved it, and the people who went and bought the game went and grabbed it, but it didnâ't sell like gangbusters.

GS: Does it mean that every game, including the really good ones, need major marketing behind them to succeed?

JC: I think itâ's definitely a part of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[CaveBear2004]

The following quote is from GameSpot's E3 News: Q&A: Ubisoft's Jay Cohen (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/05/11/news_6096617.html)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>JC: Well yes, however, look at Beyond Good and Evil. Critically acclaimed, graphics, animations, gameplay. Why didnâ't it bust out?

GS: And what was the answer you guys came up with internally?

JC: Well, we didnâ't push it. We didnâ't go deep and try and go as far with the marketing campaign. We didnâ't put $10 million behind that. And the idea was to see the strength of the game community, and all the editors said they loved it, and the people who went and bought the game went and grabbed it, but it didnâ't sell like gangbusters.

GS: Does it mean that every game, including the really good ones, need major marketing behind them to succeed?

JC: I think itâ's definitely a part of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[CellAgent51]

...And the idea was to see the strength of the game community, and all the editors said they loved it, and the people who went and bought the game went and grabbed it...

Well that's just great. Nice to know BG&E was a deliberate experiement. I wonder if that's why Ancel is not on the best terms with UBIsoft right now. I would be a bit too if a title my name was behind was deliberately crippled.

Note to UBIsoft peeps. You said it yourself, nearly everybody that plays this game loves it. On those grounds alone, it should be possible to fund another project based on BG&E. Maybe this time, you could even market the good parts of the game. Movie like experience, engaging characters, quality gameplay, and top notch graphics/sound.

[bitebug2003]

I didn't understand one bit of that article http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

-----

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Bitebug2003-sig2.jpg

[QuiGonJ]

and it is my sad duty to cry while reporting that there is "no sequel planned at this time" according to the gal I talked to at the Ubisoft booth. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Didn't get to see djnogg, but hope to tomorrow.

[CaveBear2004]

No sequel... It seemed pretty obvious since nothing had been announced yet, though many here remained hopeful of a BG&E2... Bye BG&E... Bye. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Thanks UbiSoft. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

[Lynx-0-]

well, today i walked around, continously thinking "wow, today is E3. PC gamer editors are there, some of my BGE board friends are there, Half-life 2 is there, tons of great games are there. WHY COULDN'T I HAVE GONE??!!!" I was looking forward to getting quigonj's update tonite, and now that i've seen it, i weep along side you all.

now, im not giving up all hope, for what would i have left in keeping up with in these boards? the anouncment isnt official, but its not going to get much more official than what quigon said. but still, i'll wait, and continue to wait. this game's changed me like no other game has, and ill be darned if i give up hope waiting for the rest of this epic! the day ubi announces that there is NO sequel, thats the day i stop posting on these boards....

*****************************
Through Jesus Christ, he has made me FIREPROOF
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Lynx0man-BGEavatar.jpg "...peepers?"

[sysMangler]

BGE&E mysteries, outside the game....

The past: I have this nagging feeling that there is more to this than meets the eye. I'm really hoping QuiGonJ has an opportunity to found out "the rest of the story...."

The present: Has Ubisoft been letting this game die a slow death?

The future: If Ubisoft has no plans for BGE2, what is Ancel and his staff of 30 at Montpellier doing?

[QuiGonJ]

"at this time" might well be the applicable words. It could be being worked on and just not announced given the length of time the first one took. But hopefully I'll see djnogg tomorrow since I have had no chance to see him so far.

[sysMangler]

Good point--I sorta missed the optimistic interpretation through all the tears. Maybe Ubi's to busy right now, keeping up with their successes, to sort out what went wrong with BG&E. It would be nice to hear something encouraging. Let's all keep hope alive!

Ubisoft at E3 (http://e3online.ubisoft.com) Tell Ubisoft what you think! email: e3online@ubisoft.fr

[Darth_Tigris]

No sequel 'planned' is the saddest part of all. Its not even something that they are planning. Sounds like something they are not even considering. In an interview recently on Gamespot, a Ubi rep repeatedly referred to the game, as mentioned above. Even took responsibility for it. But nothing to amend that mistake. Gamers, I think we lost this time. I often felt this E3 was going to be the last time I hold on so desperately to hope for Shenmue III, Ico 2 and Beyond Good and Evil 2. Sometimes ... sometimes its best to just let go ...

[sysMangler]

I was surprised Cohen (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/05/11/news_6096617.html) mentioned BG&E, apparently unprompted (maybe it was all my pre-convention topic request posts--yeah, right).

While hanging on for BGE2, I plan on getting Legend of Zelda:Ocarina of Time, and ICO--neither of which we have played! Shenmue III is a new one for me--oh we don't have Xbox. I'm confused about ICO 2 (http://ps2.ign.com/objects/490/490849.html?ui=gamefinder). Did it become Siren, is it becoming NICO or what? Jade Empire looks interesting.

Ubisoft at E3 (http://e3online.ubisoft.com) Tell Ubisoft what you think! email: e3online@ubisoft.fr

[Drake_Fieur]

Thanks for the link caveBear, while I was happy to see that Cohen spoke highly of BG&E despite it's limited success, I was somewhat dissappointed by the section a little further down. In his answer to the question regarding the US Army game being a givaway, he mentions that Ubi is "going to deliver a game... that is competititive with Ghost Recon...".

This worries me, because it was similar management decisions that led to Prince of Persia, and Beyond Good and Evil, both excellent games, competing with each other. It also worries me because it indicates that they, and the industry, may be moving towards the big distributer attitude towards games, where they are almost constantly releasing something in some genre.

This method, seemingly already popular in the print and movie publishing sectors has one good result, and two main drawbacks. The good point, is that it increases the selection, at least in the popular genres. The bad points are that with a new release every week, games that aren't advertised, that don't have big names developers, series, or franchises, are easy to overlook. Also with this system it is a lot easier for someone to play a game, and forget about it as the next best thing comes out.

Think of the last time a Hollywood movie truely made you think, or touched something inside you. Think of the last time you read a truely outstanding novel, or an exceptionally insightful work of non-fiction. When was that? How many other movies and books are there that really weren't worth it?

Cohen claims that Ubisoft is trying to become a "premium video game label" with "the highest quality games for every system". Are they truely seeking quality, or are they making up for it with quantity. Rather than hiring Rembrant to paint a masterwork, they've hired ten art students to make copies of a Rembrant. They end up with more, but in doing so they devalue what they have, and try as they might, the art students can only make copies. The syndrom of More More More, and More of the Same, rather than Fewer, but Masterpieces. I've been gaming for a very long time, I'm a bit of a conniseur, and I'd rather spent my money on the originals.

[QuiGonJ]

The best I got the second day was a guy saying very carefully "the official word is, no word at this time" one way or the other, which to me was at least making a deliberate effort of not saying "forget it, it's dead". Oh, and sadly I never got to see djnogg, but I did leave him a soundtrack CD I made.

I'd like to think they are working on it, but only want to announce when it's ready. Can't say for sure that's what is going on, but I sure hope so.

[Clomer1]

Thanks for your efforts, QuiGonJ. I admit that the situation does look bleak indeed, but there is still a glimmer of hope.

I've been looking for the right thread to post the following in, and it looks like this is it:

My take on the sequel situation has remained the same since before I purchased the game. I had read good reviews (most notably Nintendo Power's review and a user review on Amazon.com) and decided to get the game for myself. I hunted all over town for it (6 different stores), with no luck (other than a few PS2 copies, but I don't have a PS2 and wanted the GCN version). I finally gave up, and looked online through pricegrabber.com and ultimately ordered it from MWave.com. A salesman at Best Buy told me that the game had been cancelled due to poor sales, which was a shame because it really is an excellent game. He told me that I should grab it if I could find it. Keep in mind, this was back in January.

When I saw that it was only $20, my immediate thought was that, as a cancelled game, the publishers were simply clearing inventory. I thought then, and I still feel now, that the decision to do so was made prematurely, but I still think that's all Ubi is doing: clearing it out. That's why so many online sites are now listing it as sold out.

I have held out hope that my interpretation of events is wrong, as a cancelled game that is simply being cleared out will not have a sequel. Unfortunately, thats looking less and less likely.

If I owned a video game development company, I would be in talks with Ubi right now to purchase the IP rights to BG&E.

There are 2 things that are still glimmers of hope: the date of Ubisoft registering the beyondgoodevil2.com and beyondgoodevil3.com domain names (20 Feb 2004) and the fact that we don't know what Michel Ancel and his team are doing.

Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.

[CaveBear2004]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When I saw that it was only $20, my immediate thought was that, as a cancelled game, the publishers were simply clearing inventory. I thought then, and I still feel now, that the decision to do so was made prematurely, but I still think that's all Ubi is doing: clearing it out. That's why so many online sites are now listing it as sold out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember looking at BestBuy's site and seeing they no longer sold BG&E for the PC, but when I visited my local BestBuy store, there were a whole bunch of them left! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

[Lynx-0-]

Yeah clomer, the website thing's continually got me thinking...

heres an interesting tidbit however. I bought BGE from my local EB about a month and a half ago, if not longer, for 20 dollars. i went back to the same EB this week, and i saw the game for 25 dollars. well, call me a pure optimist, but thats gotta be a good thing. if a game was selling poorly, and they were trying to clear stock, why raise the price? just a little thing to think about...

*****************************
Through Jesus Christ, he has made me FIREPROOF
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Lynx0man-BGEavatar.jpg "...peepers?"

[Shanui]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lynx-0-:
Yeah clomer, the website thing's continually got me thinking...

heres an interesting tidbit however. I bought BGE from my local EB about a month and a half ago, if not longer, for 20 dollars. i went back to the same EB this week, and i saw the game for 25 dollars. well, call me a pure optimist, but thats gotta be a good thing. if a game was selling poorly, and they were trying to clear stock, why _raise_ the price? just a little thing to think about...

*****************************
Through Jesus Christ, he has made me FIREPROOF
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Lynx0man-BGEavatar.jpg "...peepers?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A price raise!!! Thank GOD!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/felloffsix
â"”ShaunI UnexplaineD
My BG&E Fansite

http://www.officialvideogames.com/index.htm
â"”Official BG&E 2 Petition

"I know you like to think your shhh don't stank but roses really smell like booboo."

[Shanui]

Well....if BG&E was just an expermint then I'm really sad. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
It's a great game but it was used to "test the gaming community." God, make me sick! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/felloffsix
â"”ShaunI UnexplaineD
My BG&E Fansite

http://www.officialvideogames.com/index.htm
â"”Official BG&E 2 Petition

"I know you like to think your shhh don't stank but roses really smell like booboo."

[CellAgent51]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drake_Fieur:
...
Think of the last time a Hollywood movie truely made you think, or touched something inside you. Think of the last time you read a truely outstanding novel, or an exceptionally insightful work of non-fiction. When was that? How many other movies and books are there that really weren't worth it? ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last movie that touched me on a personal level. Easy. "The Passion of the Christ". Before that, "A Beautiful Mind". Before that, "Contact". About once every 2 years a really really good movie comes out of Hollywood that resonates deeply inside me. And the same thing always happens. Nothing is ever done with these movies after they are made. For the most part, they are complete when the ending credits start to scroll.

I'm thinking that video games will eventually reach that kind of ratio of good to bad to garbage that comes out of Hollywood. The main difference here for BG&E was that it was designed from the get-go to be a 3 part series. As much as I love the game, that decision was a mistake. For the simple economical reason that making a video game is a HUGE gamble these days. Very few of them return enough of a profit to warrent a sequal. Maybe someday Ancel will find a developer and publisher willing to shoulder the bill and risk of another BG&E game. It's looking pretty doubtful though.

[QuiGonJ]

Oh, and I forgot...
http://www.coruscantcity.net/articles/E3_2004/ has all the pics I took. The blonde girl at the Ubisoft booth with the medium length hair, Beth, is the one who had to keep telling djnogg wasn't there, but she was really nice and loved BG&E also.

[Darth_Tigris]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CellAgent51:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drake_Fieur:
...
Think of the last time a Hollywood movie truely made you think, or touched something inside you. Think of the last time you read a truely outstanding novel, or an exceptionally insightful work of non-fiction. When was that? How many other movies and books are there that really weren't worth it? ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last movie that touched me on a personal level. Easy. "The Passion of the Christ". Before that, "A Beautiful Mind". Before that, "Contact". About once every 2 years a really really good movie comes out of Hollywood that resonates deeply inside me. And the same thing always happens. Nothing is ever done with these movies after they are made. For the most part, they are complete when the ending credits start to scroll.

I'm thinking that video games will eventually reach that kind of ratio of good to bad to garbage that comes out of Hollywood. The main difference here for BG&E was that it was designed from the get-go to be a 3 part series. As much as I love the game, that decision was a mistake. For the simple economical reason that making a video game is a HUGE gamble these days. Very few of them return enough of a profit to warrent a sequal. Maybe someday Ancel will find a developer and publisher willing to shoulder the bill and risk of another BG&E game. It's looking pretty doubtful though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not a bad idea if its not an experiment. If they took they trilogy idea seriously, the game would've had the marketing muscle to make sure that investment would be well received. Why don't more games take advantage of review blurbs in their advertising like movies do?

[Clomer1]

Why don't more games take advantage of review blurbs in their advertising like movies do?

"The best action-adventure game since Zelda: Wind Waker."

I saw that review quote in every single ad for BG&E that I saw. It was the one thing they did right in marketing: favorably comparing it to a game that ultimately got several game of the year awards.

But, yes, Ubi really blew it overall.

Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.

[Darth_Tigris]

The thing about E3, if I'm not mistaken, is that it is mostly to attract the attention of retailers to get them to order more of a particular system, game or accessory. With BG&E, the game didn't sell well initially at retail leaving retailers with a large supply of a game that wouldn't move. Ubi lowered the price to help retailers clear their stock.

Now, if a retailer were to come to E3 and see a sequel to a game that they couldn't move, then they would likely not be inclined to order a lot of copies of it. That would make the initial orders of a sequel less than acceptable for a major release.

The more I think about this, it really becomes more and more hopeless because of the mistakes that Ubi made initially. A retailer is more inclined to order games during the holidays because of the likelihood of higher sales. If a sequel were to be solicited for release at another time of the year, retailers wouldn't be more inclined to order it because of the performance of its predeccesor and because of the slower sales periods at other times of the year.

Are you guys going to be po'd because this is sounding so negative?

[CellAgent51]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darth_Tigris:
It's not a bad idea if its not an experiment. If they took they trilogy idea seriously, the game would've had the marketing muscle to make sure that investment would be well received. Why don't more games take advantage of review blurbs in their advertising like movies do?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. I assumed that readers took my post in context with the earlier post I made in which I did say that Ubisoft themselves said BG&E was an experiment. Making the whole idea of the sequal concept nearly moot.

I hate to be pedantic about this, but I just want it to be perfectly clear. And it is also a reflection of my wish that there could be a sequal if the game would of been advertised correctly or the feel of the game was designed to match the marketing. Both of which could of changed midstream I realize. Designer/Developer and Marketing not knowing what each other is doing is far too common in the tech world.

[Darth_Tigris]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CellAgent51:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darth_Tigris:
It's not a bad idea if its not an experiment. If they took they trilogy idea seriously, the game would've had the marketing muscle to make sure that investment would be well received. Why don't more games take advantage of review blurbs in their advertising like movies do?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. I assumed that readers took my post in context with the earlier post I made in which I did say that Ubisoft themselves said BG&E was an experiment. Making the whole idea of the sequal concept nearly moot.

I hate to be pedantic about this, but I just want it to be perfectly clear. And it is also a reflection of my wish that there could be a sequal if the game would of been advertised correctly or the feel of the game was designed to match the marketing. Both of which could of changed midstream I realize. Designer/Developer and Marketing not knowing what each other is doing is far too common in the tech world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And in the movie world, tv world, etc ...

[kintaris]

Someone really needs to hunt down Ancel himself. After all, he may be struggling against the odds to wrestle the rights from Ubi Soft's grip. He may be out there dreaming up the sequel, but he needs another, perhaps bigger company to sell it, and sell it well.

As far as I know, there's no way to contact him...

[Tw3aker2k5]

I wonder if Obsidian Entertainment would make it for him. Granted, he'd still have to find a publisher, but at least in the days of old, when they were still Black Isle Studios, they really seemed to care about their community, and not just moving games for the sake of moving them, pumping out cr@p title after cr@p title. Plus, if KotOR 2 is as much of a success as it's looking up to be, they could certainly handle taking a risk. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The developed what are arguably the best RPGs ever back in the day (Fallout 1&2, Icewind Dale 1&2, Planescape: Torment) and helped Bioware get started when they helped them out with the Baldur's Gate games. I really, really do hope that there's a sequel despite Ubisoft's 'experimentation' with a masterpiece that should never have been a guinea pig. It makes me sick really. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif